Cash, Boras talk Tex, Lowe

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As we noted, Scott Boras and Brian Cashman met yesterday to discuss some of the über-agent’s free agents. According to Tyler Kepner, Cashman met with Mark Teixeira as well, and this finally seems to confirm the Yankee interest in the man who would be, to channel Buster Olney, a great fit. No word there on an offer.

But on the Derek Lowe front, Mark Feinsand has somet developments. According to the Daily News scribe, the Yanks may be gearing up to make Lowe an offer. While Boston has also expressed interest in Lowe, I’d rather see the Yanks pursue Teixeira. Lowe doesn’t do much for me, but some of that might just be my personal reaction to him.

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  • J.R.

    I hope the Yanks were just trying to keep Tex’s value down.

    As for Lowe, having a 200 inning pitcher would help out alot next year.

  • Greg C

    I don’t know. The Yankees need at least 3 starting pitchers and none of the targets are a given. They have a first baseman and plenty of aging “could fill in at 1b” types. Teixeira is going to want a very risky deal.

    I guess I never saw the point of going after him UNLESS the free agent philosophy is “hey let’s try to sign everybody and give them all insane offers.” And I thought that wasn’t the philosophy now.

    • steve (different one)

      you don’t see the point of pursuing an awesome player?

    • J.R.

      Im going to agree with steve. If you can get Tex for a 6-7 year deal do it. That way youd get him for all his prime years and at the end some declining years. You completely avoid the end years with him.

      Yanks and Tex are a good fit.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      One could make the case that Mark Teixeira is actually more important for the long-term success of the Yankees than Sabathia is. To say that he’s a risky deal is a bit of an exaggeration.

      • steve (different one)

        i still think Sabathia is the rarer commodity, and therefore the yankees have prioritized correctly.

        i think there are more available ways to “approximate” a Teixeira than a Sabathia.

        but if the Yankees felt they could afford Teixeira too, it would really make my winter…

      • DonnieBaseballHallofFame aka they guy who has well documented history of belligerent thickheadedness and anti-intellectual character assassinations

        The risk I see in the deal or in any deal like this is 6 or 7 year deals are usually bad biz period end of story. Again the word is USUALLY.

        Now you can say the offer already extended to CC is more risky, and it is but I think if you sign CC for the number of years they are talking they already expect to get a horrible return on investment late in the contract. They would be hoping and expecting to get 2 to 4 years of great pitching and if they got anything decent out of the last years I would assume they would be ecstatic.

        • Greg C

          Yeah that’s what I was getting at.

    • Nady Nation

      How is Teixeira going to want a “risky deal”? What does that even mean? He’s probably the one free agent who will be the safest bang for your buck.

      • J.R.

        The onlly “risk” I see in signing Tex is infield payroll put together.

        Arod $27 mill
        Jeter $22 mill
        Tex ~$20 mill

        But the yankees clearly don’t think its that risky, because they did the same thing with Giambi.

        • Nady Nation

          Right, but I don’t see how that is a “risk” in terms of the Teixeira signing. That’s a payroll argument, not a risk/reward argument

    • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

      You know what I don’t understand? This “They have a first baseman and plenty of aging ‘could fill in at 1b’ types” logic, I don’t get that. How can a reasonable person actually say, “Hey, let’s not sign the second-best first basemen in baseball because we have some players on our current roster who will age to the point where they can’t offer anything of value defensively… so we’ll put them at first base to accommodate their respective suck-iness.”

      I’m sorry, but if you are asking me if I would rather have Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada or Mark Teixeira at first base in three-to-four years, I’m choosing Tex. Jeter and Posada’s inability to handle their current, respective positions in the future should not be used as an argument against signing Mark Teixeria.

      • J.R.

        I think that looking at current roster and projected future roster should be considered before signing Tex.

        If you believe that Posada will have to DH or play 1B in years 2,3,4 of this contract, you might have a problem.

        Im not saying, “dont sign tex” but you have to consider the logjam you might create.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          Im not saying, “dont sign tex” but you have to consider the logjam you might create.

          There won’t be a logjam. Here’s the players you worry about possibly having to play 1B or DH going forward:

          Posada – signed for three more years
          Swisher – signed long term, but can play the outfield
          Matsui – done after this year
          Damon – done after this year
          Abreu, Giambi – already gone

          If we add Tex, 2009 shakes out like:
          1B-Tex
          DH-Matsui
          LF-Damon
          CF-Swisher
          C-Posada

          2010 and beyond looks like:
          1B-Tex
          DH-Posada
          CF/LF/RF- Swisher

          The only way we have a logjam is if we retain Matsui or Damon, which we won’t. And, if you’re not cool with giving 2009 CF to Swisher, we can deal off either Damon or Matsui without too much of a headache.

          The logjam argument is overstated.

          • J.R.

            Your 2009 lineup argument isnt great, you are resting on alot of assumptions and playing guys out of position.

            1. You assume Posada can catch the ~120 games.
            2. You are playing Swisher in center (where Cashman has said he doesn’t want him playing) or you move damon there.
            3. And Jamal was also addressing Jeter’s declining defense at SS.

            I was saying that you do needd to consider other players declining abilities at their position before signing Tex to a 7 year deal.

            • Chris

              If Posada can’t catch, then he should go back on the DL. There are no indications that he’ll have a problem resuming catching duties. In fact, he was able to catch (not too well, but still better than Varitek) while injured, so to think he would be worse after surgery is a bit of a stretch.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

              1. You assume Posada can catch the ~120 games.

              If he can’t, he moves to DH more for ’09 and splits time with Matsui, who’s also likely to need aggressive resting anyway. And, Matusi can easily be traded if there is a bad logjam, or he can ride out the last year of his deal as a pinch-hitter/spot starter. Again, we’re talking about letting one short year of potentially having one to many DH’s preclude us from adding Tex’s bat for the next 7-10 years. That’s not smart.

              2. You are playing Swisher in center (where Cashman has said he doesn’t want him playing) or you move damon there.

              Tomato, tomahto. Flip flop them as much as you want, there’s still room for Swish, Nady, and Damon (plus Gardner) all in the same outfield. And, like Matsui, Damon is gone so the logjam thing is overstated.

              3. And Jamal was also addressing Jeter’s declining defense at SS.

              Jeter doesn’t enter into the 1B/DH “logjam” because he’s either staying at SS or moving to the OF after Damon/Nady leave. He’s a non-factor.

              Basically, I see four spots (OF/OF/DH/C) for four players (Damon/Swisher/Matsui/Posada) in 2009, and then three spots (OF/OF/DH) for two players (Swisher/Posada) after that, so we can give 1B to Tex for the next decade and not have a problem.

              • DonnieBaseballHallofFame aka they guy who has well documented history of belligerent thickheadedness and anti-intellectual character assassinations

                “And, Matusi can easily be traded if there is a bad logjam”

                Hows that? Does the man not have a no trade clause?

                Does the man not make a lot of money for a guy we might have no use for?

                Matsui is not an easy trade at all.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                  Hows that? Does the man not have a no trade clause?

                  Tons of guys are traded that have no trade clauses. I imagine if Cashman/Girardi went to Hideki and told hm that Jorge was struggling at catcher and he was going to be the new DH going forward, and that Matsui was going to the bench, Matsui would waive his no-trade to go find starter’s work elsewhere.

                  Players like to play.

                • DonnieBaseballHallofFame aka they guy who has well documented history of belligerent thickheadedness and anti-intellectual character assassinations

                  There is a whole lot of assuming and imagining going on in your “Matusi can easily be traded” statement.

                  On top of his no trade somebody has got to want an old broken down bad knee player for whatever he makes a year $13 mill or something?

                  On this board we like to make sure there are facts that are covered by the stats buddo. And those ma’am are the facts.

              • J.R.

                1. Matsui is on the line for $13 million. Thats never an easy trade. Its made even harder with 2 bad knees.
                2. Tomato. tomahto? Swish Nady and Damon could combine for the worst outfield defensively in baseball.
                3. Like I said 2009 will have some logjam issues without trading away at least one player.

      • Greg C

        Now that I am reading more about what Lowe is expecting I would say hell no to him, at least at that price.

        My point was if you had to pick I would go with pitching because that’s the biggest need. All the talk lately has been that they are NOT going to offer up big money to every big money free agent just because that’s what they do.

        Don Mattingly was my favorite player, including after he couldn’t hit. So I certainly understand wanting a defensive 1B and not falling into that whole “stick anyone who can’t play the field at first” mindset. But it happens.

        The fact is there is a first baseman. There are NO pitchers. The pitching staff sucked last year. The best starter retired. The second most reliable starter is not signed. Wang should be reliable, but who knows and we really don’t know about Joba- who isn’t being counted on for anything more than 5th starter innings. There is a huge hole in the rotation and they need to sign 3 starters this year.

        Who knows how Tex will be in 3-4 years. Many players are great or very good in their 20s and suck once they get in their 30s. A lot of people werent too happy with Giambi making so much money. That could be Tex, with better fielding and less slugging.

      • Count Zero

        Valid — I don’t buy the “logjam” argument either. You should never let “worst case scenario” be the object of strategic decisions. You take “worst case” into consideration, but you plan around “good case.”

        However, there is something to the “1B is probably the easiest position to fill with an above-average bat, and it’s the least important defensive position on the field” argument. ;-)

        Basically, you’re filling what is generally regarded as a LIFO position with a premier FA at a very high cost. I think the anti-Teixeira argument is that you can make do at 1B with a Swisher or a throwaway like Posada so your money would be better spent acquiring a rotation spot which is much more difficult to fill with above replacement level. On the other side, you can argue that Teixeira is an elite bat, young, and not something that appears very frequently — no matter what position he plays. And I would buy that too.

        I am good if they get him — but it won’t break my heart if they don’t. I am much more concerned about them signing two starting pitchers that aren’t named Lowe…who I loathe.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      I don’t know. The Yankees need at least 3 starting pitchers and none of the targets are a given.

      I disagree with the first part of that comment. I don’t know that we “need” three starting pitchers. We “need” one starting pitcher, that’s CC. After CC, we want one or tow more ML capable starting pitchers to help hedge our Hughes/IPK/Aceves bet and allow us to develop them in AAA and build up their innings (along with Joba). But all the secondary pitchers we’ve been discussing, from Sheets to Burnett to Lowe, and even Pettitte, are priority #3, after priority #1 (CC) and priority #2, which is addressing our roster turnover.

      Giambi, Abreu, Matsui, Damon, and possibly Nady will all be leaving our team either this winter or next. All we’ve added to replace that departing offense is Nick Swisher, who’s good, but who can’t play 4 positions at once. We need another bat more than we need a second starter. I thing we can sign both, but if it’s truly an either or, I’ll take Tex (or Dunn or Manny) and risk surviving with no other pitching acquisition outside of CC.

      • A.D.

        We def don’t need 3… I would like to see a spot go to an internal option

      • Greg C

        So basically replacing Mussina with CC is what will take the team over the top this year? Ok.

        I like how all the internal options turned out last year. Right Now I think Wang is no more than a # 3, Pettite ( unsigned) a 4, and Joba an unproven 5.

        Sure I would LOVE if an internal option stepped up. I just haven’t seen anything. IPK was great in 2006. How did giving him a spot workout last year.

        There are only 2 signed starters, 1 coming off an injury, and 1 unproven for a full season.

        Really we should sign CC, Lowe, pettitte, Tex, Manny, and Dunn. But it’s not happening. I would prioritize pitching.

        But I guess we could have an all AAA staff. It could work out.

  • stewman23

    I’m going to stick to my original thought at the start of this off-season. I think the Yankees would be very nicely upgraded at pitching, defense, AND offense by bringing aboard CC and Tex. They certainly, in my calculations, could and should add both while keeping to a payroll of 190 million. Also by bringing back Petitte, but sticking with adding Hughes or Kennedy to the back-end of the rotation, Cash wouldn’t comepletely abandon his movement for young and affordable players.

    • Nady Nation

      Amen

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        Thirded.

        List of objectives:
        1) Sign CC
        2) Sign Tex
        3) Sign Pettitte for one year
        4) Steal underpants
        5)
        6) PROFIT!

        • Mike P

          Was 5) meant to be “Steal Laptops”?

          • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

            No, it’s a “South Park” reference (which is a tad creepy because my friends and I were talking about this exact joke last night). In an episode where Tweak’s underpants were stolen by the Underpants Gnomes, their plan was simple:

            1. Steal underpants.
            2. ???
            3. Profit!!!

            • Count Zero

              We won’t stop till we have underpants…

  • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

    Dammit Cashman! You drowned rat looking Mole. Get Manny signed. SO NO TO D-SLOWE.

    Seriously though I hope Cash is just driving up the price on Lowe for the Sox, if that is the true mission than I commend him and take back one of the two animal names I just called him.

    • Nady Nation

      What does the “Slowe” part of your nickname mean? That he doesn’t throw hard? I thought Lowe hits around 90-91 with his sinker? I’m confused

      • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

        Heh, I thought it was a typo.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

        Lowe’s fb velocity the last 4 yrs according to Fangraphs:

        88.4
        88.8
        89.2
        89.2

        • steve (different one)

          bust!

        • Nady Nation

          Wow, that’s even faster than Mike Musslowna last year.

        • DonnieBaseballHallofFame aka they guy who has well documented history of belligerent thickheadedness and anti-intellectual character assassinations

          Is that not Slow?

          Or do the dodgers use a bad gun or something?

          • Ed

            Average is about 90, so it’s a tad slow, but only something to be concerned about if your pitching style revolves around blowing the ball past people.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        What does the “Slowe” part of your nickname mean?

        It’s wit.

        • DonnieBaseballHallofFame aka they guy who has well documented history of belligerent thickheadedness and anti-intellectual character assassinations

          No, just a anti-intellectual character assassination. Maybe the 5th or 6th today. The nerve.

          • UWS

            Come on, you silly kids, hug it out. Can’t we all just get along?

            • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

              Erg. Such a girl.

            • DonnieBaseballHallofFame aka they guy who has well documented history of belligerent thickheadedness and anti-intellectual character assassinations

              Alas I am afraid we can not Mr. Under Wear Salesman.

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                It’s Ugly Wierd Slut, Donnie. We’ve established that already.

                And she’s a Miss, not a Mister.

  • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

    Per Tim Dierkes of MLBTR, via Buster Olney:

    Olney says the Yankees would ask for Chad Billingsley or Clayton Kershaw from the Dodgers for Robinson Cano.

    Cashman, you sexy bitch.

    Seriously, maybe Ca$hmoney is doing a bit more in L.A. than just meeting with Scott Boras.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      He’s not in LA, he’s in DC. A reader emailed us yesterday that he was on the same flight as Cash, and Kepner confirmed it this morning. He met with Boras and Tex there, where TEx was chillin’ with family.

      • DonnieBaseballHallofFame aka they guy who has well documented history of belligerent thickheadedness and anti-intellectual character assassinations

        Maybe while he was there he was trying to work out a blockbuster to bring Nick Johnson back to the Yanks! YES! Nick has TRUE GRIT!

        • Eric

          I know you’re being sarcastic but I really do like Nick Johnson. He’s got an absolutely fantastic eye and some good pop. I mean, I’d see him as like…a plan C or D if no Dunn or Tex or something but Johnson’s a good player.

          • DonnieBaseballHallofFame aka they guy who has well documented history of belligerent thickheadedness and anti-intellectual character assassinations

            I actually really like Nick too. He is just hurt all the damn time. ALL THE TIME.

    • Zack

      I hate to say it, but I think Cano’s value, assuming he rebounds of course, is probably far more than just Billingsley or Kershaw could offer. An everyday, potentially well above average 2B for a pitching prospect, albeit a damn damn good one, is not really a good idea. Now if that offer was for Kemp, its a different story.

      But how would the Yanks replace Cano?

      • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

        I see what you are saying, because I as well feel that Robinson Cano’s value is severely underestimated both subjectively and objectively, but I still don’t think that Cano, as publicly perceived, can really haul in a talent of Chad Billingsley or Clayton Kershaw’s caliber.

      • Reggie C.

        How do the yanks replace cano? Orlando Hudson hasn’t signed with anybody, and i’ve read that Hudson would love to play in NY. If we picked up Kershaw, he could start out the 4/5 hole. We’d only need 1 more signing, and if that weren’t CC Sabathia, we’d be saving a hole lotta money we could throw at Mark Teixeira.

        • zack

          Yes, but Hudson isn’t really a replacement. Or rather, he is just that, replacement level.

          Sure, he offers great defense, but offensively, you are looking at a league average hitter, something Cano is not. (Again, assuming Cano rebounds to form at least somewhat).

          I don’t think its a coincidence that Hudson suddenly became a slightly above league average hitter when he moved to AZ. Put him back in the AL East, adding in that he is going into his year 31 season and therefore not going to get any better, and I think we are looking at an average to below average player.

          At that point, you NEED to sign Tex, as the Yanks have already stated they are counting on Cano’s offensive rebound.

          And I also don’t think Kershaw means no need for CC either.

          • Steve H

            I don’t get this NL hitters will struggle in the AL. It doesn’t make sense. There is more hitting in the AL so the pitchers don’t get any chance to rest thru part of a lineup. Hitting in the Yankees lineup in the AL East is more beneficial to a hitter than hitting in the NL West with the caverneous parks and pitchers in the lineup. We always point out that it’s easier to pitch in the NL, so in a way, doesn’t that make it easier to hit in the AL. Not a direct correlation, but it is related.

    • TurnTwo

      you gotta love the play, if its the case.

      and apparently, its the Dodgers who are more interested in getting Cano than the Yankees in getting rid of him; have to think its gives Cash a little bit more levarage in any potential negotiations… allegedly.

    • Eric

      I don’t like the idea of trading Cano but for Billingsley or Kershaw….

      But at the same time, I don’t like signing Orlando Hudson.

      • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

        I don’t like the idea of trading Cano but for Billingsley or Kershaw….

        Dude, my sentiments exactly.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          Yup.

  • AndrewYF

    Anyone notice this part of the article?

    “Sabathia has not responded to the offer, but the sides have continued quietly negotiating.”

    ‘Quietly negotiating’ doesn’t sound like the stonewalling the media has interpreted the as yet non-signing to be, to me.

    • J.R.

      I wonder if he wants Dice-K clauses written in for travel and family? Other than that, there isn’t much he could negotiate. No one will offer more money and no one will offer more years.

      • Chris

        There are always things to negotiate. For Santana and the Mets, there were provisions about raises/options depending on Cy Young awards. For CC it could be similar, or family travel, or his per diem for food on road trips.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

        From Cot’s, RE: Dice-K…

        perks: physical therapist, massage therapist, interpreter, 8 first-class round-trip airline tickets per year between Boston & Japan, spring training housing allowance of up to $25,000, Boston housing allowance of up to $75,000, one-time moving allowance of up to $35,000, use of Lincoln Town Car or similar car, Red Sox player ticket package, including 2 field box seats, team employee to assist Japanese media, uniform No. 18

        • steve (different one)

          plus one happy ending per start.

          • Jack

            And a second for every win.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          perks… uniform No. 18

          Maybe CC’s holding out for #21.

          • Steve H

            That simply cannot be allowed.

  • MJ

    <>

    I don’t think it’s just your personal reaction. I think it’s because he was merely average (2003) and piss-poor (2004) in his final two seasons as a starter in the AL. Given the cost associated with signing him and the fact that he’s older now, I don’t see why Lowe appeals to the Yankees.

    • Steve H

      He also has changed his nightlife, which led to his pisspoorness in 2004. And despite the overall pisspoorness, let’s not forget (as much as I’d like to), in 2004, he walked into Yankee stadium for Game 7 to get into the WS and pitched 1 hit ball for 6 innings, on TWO day’s rest.

  • MJ

    “Lowe doesn’t do much for me, but some of that might just be my personal reaction to him.”

    I don’t think it’s just your personal reaction. I think it’s because he was merely average (2003) and piss-poor (2004) in his final two seasons as a starter in the AL. Given the cost associated with signing him and the fact that he’s older now, I don’t see why Lowe appeals to the Yankees.

  • http://www.blueseatblogs.com Dave

    CC, Sheets, Pettitte. That’s it.

    • Nady Nation

      And Teix, Lowe, Manny, Dunn. Oh, and K-Rod and Wood for setup purposes. But that’s really it now.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        Plaxico Burress.

  • mike G.

    Damon
    Jeter
    Tex
    Arod

    That’s the top of the line up I want for christmas.

    CC, Wang, Petite, Burnett, Joba

    That’s what I want for Chauanaka.

    whooo hoooo Yankee baseball in October ’09!

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      YOU RELIGIOUS-DOUBLE-DIPPING BASTARD!!!!!!!

      • mike G.

        hahaha tis the season to be jolly!

    • DonnieBaseballHallofFame aka they guy who has well documented history of belligerent thickheadedness and anti-intellectual character assassinations

      I want Manny on the team for Kwanzaa.

    • UWS

      I want Sheets for Festivus.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        The Feats Sheets of Strength

      • DonnieBaseballHallofFame aka they guy who has well documented history of belligerent thickheadedness and anti-intellectual character assassinations

        Good one. You just trumped everybody with that one Under Wear Saleswoman.