The unwanted Manny Ramirez
ByWhen the Yanks signed Mark Teixeira, I proclaimed Manny as the biggest loser of the Mark Teixeira sweepstakes. The Yanks would have signed him had the Red Sox landed Teixeira, but with the Yanks out of the pitcher, the market for Manny is practically non-existent. Ramirez turned down a guaranteed two years and $40 million when he forced his trade from Boston, and Buster Olney says that Manny has only himself to blame.
I know some Yankee fans harbor a pipe dream that would see Manny land in New York for one year at some obscene dollar value, and I know others who would never root for Manny in pinstripes. I don’t think Manny will be Bronx-bound. Ironically, as Olney notes, the Red Sox are the only team left with the money and clear need for Manny, but the future Hall of Famer is learning the hard way that baseball karma is a bitch.
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While all this is true. Manny will still land somewhere for manny, manny millions of dollars.
Cashman and Girardi do not want the headache of Manny, but we could still use his bat.
If the yanks pull manny with a little less money this
year,they could up it next year if he hits certain
goals set by the Yankees.
We could use his bat,it just might wake arod up.
Never underestimate Boras. People laughed at him guaranteeing Zito 5/75, and he ended up blowing that away. If, as reported, he told Manny he could get him 4/100, then he will.
I do not see 4 for 100 out there. I could see one for 30, or two for 40 or even two for 50. 4 for 100 in this market would need a desperate team with loads of cash to burn on a guy that they do not want to deal with.
Money is tight everywhere right now (even the Yanks, since they just spent most of what they had to spend) and like Olney and manny others have said even on this board who else has the $ and the need but the Sox?
You’re probably right. My best guess is the Dodgers – 3 yrs/65M with a (meaningless) mutual option for 35. That let’s him spin it as a 100M deal even though it’s not.
I don’t see anything else out there, but Boras’s track record is pretty impressive. Maybe the Nats have some money to burn?
Dodgers seem the likeliest, Nats I wouldn’t be surprised with, and the Mets make sense to me as a good fit for Ramirez too though it looks like they’re not gonna be able to make a bid for them after Madoff “didn’t” affect Mets’ operational revenue.
The Mets have the money and the need.
The Mets really should spend on Manny and Lowe, but they won’t. Both of them could really help their team.
And maybe someone here could explain it to me, since my Mets fans friends can’t seem to, why do they love Orlando Hudson that much? He is not a better player than their current 2B by just about any stretch of the imagination. The only edge Hudson has over Castillo is a slight one in batting average and in power, but Castillo makes up for the lack of power by beating Hudson in UZR/150. I really don’t get these Mets fans.
castillos knees are shot and he is on a steep decline. his hwole game is based on slap hitting and speed and stealing etc. without knees he is utterly worthless
not saying hudson is great mind you
But he still posted a .355 OBP which is more than acceptable for a 2B and was 17/19 (89%) on steals in limited time last year. He did play crappy defense last year, though, but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule, looking at his career UZR tallies.
hudson is overrated and hes always hurt. his one good attribute is his personality apparently.
Also, that Olney piece is absolutely horrible. It’s like an 8th grade writing assignment. Geez.
instant karma’s gonna get you……
How do the Sox have a clear need for Manny? Do they need his bat? Yeah I could see that. Where the hell would they play him though?
Sox could definitely use his bat, and they’d use him as a LF/DH. I could see Papi needing some extra days off this year so ManRam could probably get more time as a DH this year if he theoretically went to Boston…not that its going to happen. Very ironic how this has turned out for both parties.
I was rallying for Manny pretty hard before we got Tex, but I don’t see the need for him at that point – we’d have to move at least Matsui to make room for him, and its just not necessary.
I think there is still internal debate in the Yankees FO about getting him though – a 2 year deal looks possible at this point, and he brings with him a huge financial incentive – the increased ratings from YES would alone justify a substnatial contract to this man.
If Cashman and the Steinbrothers really decide they want Ramirez, and they trade away Matsui and maybe Nady too in order to get him, I definitely would not complain – having a 3-4-5 consisting of Rodriguez/Ramirez/Teixeira (that’s how I’d order them, btw) is a thought that is both scary and awesome. But it seems highly unlikely and simply unnecessary.
The only reason it seems like a remote possibility is because even though it would cost a substantial amount of money, it would be more than compensated in the revenue it brings to Yankee Global Enterprises, and because he would straight up make our team better.
and would that push the bluejays pick back to 465th round?
Yes. We should do it just to mess with Ricciardi. Does Manny have a higher elias rating than CC? How hilarious would it be to make Milwuakee get a 3rd round pick for Sabathia?…sheesh
Manny’s third behind Tex & CC. Burnett is 4th.
FYI – I have to Elias order at the bottom of the 2009 Draft Order page:
http://riveraveblues.com/2009-draft-order/
Ricciardi deserves it for besmirching the good name of Adam Dunn.
haha besmirch. nice
Boston may have the need for him, but there’s no way they can get him at this point, unless they want to move JD Drew (not gonna happen) and put Bay in right and Manny back in left.
Or if they really want to get rid of Lowell (unlikely), they could put Ortiz at first full time, with Youk at third, Manny at DH, and keep Bay in left.
Basically, none of this is going to happen.
What does everyone think the Sox will do w/Bay? Do you think they’ll try to lock him up before the season ends or will they wait to see what he can do for a full year in Fenway and possibly join the Matt Holliday sweepstakes?
Man, it would be a real clusterfuck to try to make room for Manny in Boston at this point, I don’t want to think about it. All I know is that Papi needs to be fulltime DH and Manny can only handle LF – you’d have to work around that.
But its a pointless line of thought, as there is NO WAY either party wants to hook up again.
I think Boston locks up Bay towards August if he’s shaping up to have another respectable season with them. Maybe Boston goes for Holliday … a lot of that will depend on how he does in Oakland. I’m glad he went to the AL and out of Colorado, where everyone will be able more accurately gauge how good of a hitter he really is.
Yeah, I agree with just about everything. Like I’ve said, ’09 is one big, fat, tryout for Matt Holliday. Let’s take a look at his projections from CHONE…
.286/.356/.479, 23 HR, 91 RBI, 56 BB, 112 SO, 35 2B.
Wow. We’ll see whether he’s a Coors creation or a legit superstar. I say the former. Those numbers are good, but he might have gotten Teix money with another season of gaudy, inflated numbers.
That trade cost him big time.
I think he’s somewhere in the middle. Coors definitely helped him but from the projection, it looks like McAffee will hurt him a lot, too. But, that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s all that bad.
http://www.baseballprojection.com/hollima1109.htm
Look at his six year forecast in the neutral park/league. They’re surely not Coors numbers but they’re definitely better than McAfee numbers.
There is no way Manny could ever go back to Boston. Simply can’t happen. Your looking at a full on media meltdown and I think the fans would riot. I mean if your gonna end up with Manny for the same or even more money then why did they let him go in the first place. With Manny there they beat the Rays and go to the WS….and win it. Fans would kill Theo.
Turns out that $20M option might have been good for him after all…
Would have been good for the Sox as well, and if he was on that team last year they would have won a WS title.
That’s a completely unsupportable statement — and also conveniently un-disprovable.
Jason Bay’s a damn fine player. Also…they were down 3 games to 1. How do you know that Maddon makes the same (idiotic) reliever choices in game 5 if Manny’s looming in the lineup? Maybe he goes to a better arm sooner in some situation that winds up winning the Rays game 5 or game 6.
They win the title last yr ina walk if Manny is in the lineup.
Also, Bay had a monster playoffs. It’s impossible to say that Manny would have been even hotter had he been in Bay’s place.
Oh you mean in the same year in the playoffs where Manny hit at least a hundred points higher than Bay did? With tons more power? In a lineup with no protection?
Jason Bay is one heck of a baseball player. Really like that kid. BUT Please be giving me a break buddy.
The Sox almost got to the WS without him, if they had him it would have been UGLY.
The Phillies who won the WS did not know what to do with Manny. Take the best hitter in the playoffs and put him on a team that came very close to getting to the WS, and it is pretty obvious to most people what would have happened.
Ask David Ortiz (somebody did and he said they would have won it with him, and it was NOT a question he wanted to answer)
Quick question on this for everybody. If we could get him on the Yankees for 2 years and between 40 million and 50 million would you do it? I would.
Not a chance in hell, he won’t cut his Dreads. No cut, no contract!?! 27/09.
Manny would cut his hair all the way off for the best contract out there and a chance to stick it to Boston. Thats my take at least.
Yes, I probably would. Depends on Matsui and his pesky NTC though. If we can offload Hideki – even if we need to eat about 1/2 of his contract, I think its worth it. Manny > Matsui in every conceivable away, even defense (which is kinda funny).
Only if two players–Matsui and Nady–could be moved beforehand, yes. If not, no.
Definitely not. They have no place to play him, and the real cost is higher when people hypothesize these “oh, dump Matsui and sign Manny” kinds of situations. If I’m spending any money now, I’m spending on a pitcher that will give me innings. Matsui + Pettitte gives more value to the team than Manny – Matsui + no pitcher at all.
I am no fan of Buster Olney, he is anti-Yankee (Like most of ESPN). However, it does not mean he is wrong about Manny Ramirez. He and Scott Boras played an ugly game (Quitting on Boston). Boras does stuff like that way too often (Opting out A-Rod during the World Series comes to mind). But the ultimate decision was his, not Boras’s (As Boras always likes to say).
There are a lot of rotten things that can be said about Scott Boras, and most of them are true. But there is one thing in his favor, that can be said, he rarely misreads the market (The Alex Rodriguez case was an execption). I think he did it again, with Manny and Mark Teixeira.
The Teixeira case is interesting because like Manny, there were very few teams that could afford him (Not realizing how bad the economy was, and how teams could easi;y walk away from his demands (See the Angels)). However, I also get the impression that Boras really likes Tex (Letting him live in his house while he was playing in Anaheim, is a strong indication of that), and because of that, he was willing to screw Manny over, in order to help get Tex where he really wanted to be (The Yankees), which essentially took the Yankees out of the market for Manny.
Finally, I really hope Manny has to go back to the Dodgers, crawling back like the snake he is. So he gets his just desserts, and in addition, unless the Dodgers play the Yankees in Interleague Play or the World Series, they do not have to face him ever again.
How did Borass misread the Alex situation? He got the guy a gigundo contract, biggest in MLB history, after already doing that for him one other thing. I think the whole good cop bad cop thing they did was brilliant from the $ perspective. Now from the human being perspective I think it was some seriously slime ball activities but remember we are talking about Alex and Borass both of which are very slimey dudes.
I love it when everyone gets on a high-horse about Scott Boras. If you were in his shoes, with any player, you would try and do the exact same thing he does. You know why the best players use him? Because he gets them the most coin. If you were an agent, you would at least try to do most of the shit Boras does because if you didn’t, you wouldn’t be a good agent–or even be an agent for very long.
unfortunately most people have souls and are unable to replicate boras’s techniques.
He has no soul because he gets billionaires to pay fair value for his clients?
Yea thats totally evil!
Matt, I was on no high horse. I negotiate deals every day, that is a major component of what I do. Mostly on behalf of other people. You can do that and still have class and morals as I know some other agents in baseball seem to have.
I do not fault Borass for being who he is, but let us be real here. The man is slimey. He is also usually very good at his job. I am sure there are worse guys who get their players less money.
If I was a player I doubt I would use him, but I understand why some players do in fact use him. If you are THE prime free agent in a class of free agents he may be your guy. If you are the number 2 guy and he has the number 1 guy I would never ever use the mans services.
His need for fame and the spotlight are useful at times to his clients but I am sure there any many players who have been used as pawns in his grand chess game to get himself the most $, position and power unbeknown to them.
How is Olney anti-Yankee?
You may not like some things he writes but that doesnt mean hes not objective.
And he did write a great book on the Yankees dynasty.
Scott Boras never has, and never will be, about baseball. He runs a business for his clients, and he does an excellent job for them. His clients happen to be baseball players but that is besides the point. To look at Boras as someone who works on behalf of baseball is the wrong lens to have. He’s a businessman, and as long as what he’s doing is within the relevant legal parameters of his profession, than the only thing you can say about him is that he’s the best there is. Money talks and bullshit walks, and that’s what all the whining about Boras is – straight up bullshit.
Well said, my friend.
“Scott Boras never has, and never will be, about baseball.”
Actually he has been, when he played the game.
“He runs a business for his clients, and he does an excellent job for them.”
Actually he runs a business so he can make money for himself, and there is nothing wrong with that. He has done an effective job for a large number of clients but there are only clients he used to further his own cause and not theirs.
“His clients happen to be baseball players but that is besides the point. To look at Boras as someone who works on behalf of baseball is the wrong lens to have.”
100 percent on point.
“He’s a businessman, and as long as what he’s doing is within the relevant legal parameters of his profession, than the only thing you can say about him is that he’s the best there is.”
Some of the relevant questions that surround Borass is if what he does is within the legal, ethical, and moral parameters of working for a client.
As far as what I or anybody else can say about him, we can say whatever we want. He is a public figure by his own choosing. We are free to say whatever we feel about the man.
“Money talks and bullshit walks, and that’s what all the whining about Boras is – straight up bullshit.”
Eloquent, profound, and reminiscent of a WWF wrestlers post match speech.
DBHOF, I am curious what line of work you are in working up deals for clients every other day of your life because if you are not doing everything in your power to get the most money for your clients, thus in turn getting the most money for yourself, you are doing your clients a disservice. I am sure that some of your clients would even leave you to find someone else if they heard that you were more concerned with public image then making money.
Without getting into the exact nature of my business on a public message board I will try to answer some of your questions.
“if you are not doing everything in your power to get the most money for your clients, thus in turn getting the most money for yourself, you are doing your clients a disservice”
I agree with than within reason. Most people however choose who they work with and who works for them for more than just the dollar figure in mind. Everybody that I work with knows me and how I operate and have a very transparent view on to the inner workings of the deals that involve them.
“I am sure that some of your clients would even leave you to find someone else if they heard that you were more concerned with public image then making money.”
There are many major league agents that have gotten their clients top dollar without any of us knowing what they look like. There are also many major league agents who have gotten top dollar deals without engaging in the sleazy tactics Borass seams to employ on most of his high publicity deals.
As far as being concerned with public image, I think Boras is very much into his public image and loves it. Money is not the only end in all deals or to all clients.
I actually have nothing against Scott personally, and admire some of the work he has done. I think he is smart, at times creative and seems to always be a hard working fellow. I do however find him to be a sleazy guy, and that I do not admire.
Manny was/is being Manny. Olney is right, it caught up to him.
Yanks are set in LF with Damon for another year.
Nady has to be the guy they trade. He has the most value out of the crop. What will a package bring back if you dangle Nady/IPK and another prospect for a top flight RF?
The whole point of trading Nady is to free up space in the OF. Why would you bring back another RF?
That puzzles me as well. Nady is only valuable to team who wants a cheap option for one year (and a lot of teams might not think 6 mill is cheap anymore)
Ian is not somebody that teams are clamoring to get. And again I do not get your need to get a RF, if we need a RF why are we trading Nady?
If you don’t think Boras will get Manny a nice contract you have been living in a cave the past decade.
“The Yanks would have signed him had the Red Sox landed Teixeira, ”
Really and Cashman told you this during dinner last week.
It’s an educated guess, and I’m far from the only person both on this site and in the media that I’ve spoken to who thinks that.
“It’s an educated guess,”
That’s not the way it was written. You’re sometime harsh on commenters when we take guess or assumptions and make them into facts.
Just busting your ass a bit I know what you meant.
It’s funny I was thinking about how to get Manny on this team now that his market has dry up. The only thing I could come up with was trading Swisher and Matsui. Then getting Manny for 3 years at 54 million. There are so many holes to this and at the end I think it’s a pipe dream.
I honestly don’t see that happening or Manny accepting 3/54.
You’re probably right, but the Dodgers have now open talks with Abreu and Dunn. Manny’s dance partners seem to be leaving the floor fast.
I understand that it has to be the prefect storm for this to happen, but it’s looking like real bad weather for Mr. Ramirez. Maybe the Yanks have an umbrella.
THE METS DON’T NEED MANNY’S BAT.
MIDDLE RELIEF IS WHAT THE METS NEED TO CAPTURE A DIVISION CROWN.
WITH THE YANKS OUT OF THE MANNY BIDDING, RAMIREZ’S CONTRACT WILL SINK LIKE A STONE.
REMEMBER HOW THE MARKET DROPPED FOR SANTANA LAST YEAR WHEN THE YANKEES DROPPED OUT.
THERE ARE NO BIDDERS IN THIS AUCTION.
SEE BORAS FLOP. FOR ONCE.
“THE METS DON’T NEED MANNY’S BAT.”
I don’t think Omar agrees with you by most accounts he has been begging Mets ownership to sign Manny. I think Manny would be a great fit for the Mets, but I guess Mets ownership is not into Manny being Manny.
MUSTANG, THERE’S NO DENYING MANNY IS A BATTING FREAK. SUPERB HITTER.
BUT HIS DEFENSIVE FLAWS WILL BE MAGNIFIED AWAY FROM FENWAY.
AND HE PREENS HIMSELF WITH SPECIAL TREATMENT, LIKE DAYS OFF.
I LOVE THE GUY. I MISS THE GUY. I TIP MY HAT TO WHAT HE CAN DO.
BUT IT WAS MORE THE JORGE SOSA’S AND GUILLERMO MOTA’S (ESPECIALLY IN 2007) THAT RUINED 2007 AND 2008 THAN NOT HAVING A BASHER.
THE METS ARE A PRETTY DAMN GOOD TEAM.
Hey buddy, your caps lock button is stuck.
Also you stated something I found funny.
“THE METS ARE A PRETTY DAMN GOOD TEAM.”
If they were they would have made the playoffs in the weak NL. That wild card was a gimmie. The Mets added one of if not the best pitcher in the game and they still stunk up the joint. As currently constructed they should make the playoffs this year, but I could have said the same thing last year.
i would see him taking 2 years at 54 million to save face. he seems to me the type of player who would rather walk away then taking a deal less than the AAV of the deal offered by the dodgers.
if by some miracle the yankees could trade matsui…they could spin manny as a 1 year expenditure being that damon and nady are gone. at leat they will have a true (granted not great line-up) on the field nexxt year and imagine that lineup with tex 3rd, arod 4th and manny 5th. it is downwight scary
and whats another 15 million (manny’s salary vs. matsui’s) when you have already offered a 10 milion dollar K to petitte and have spent 500 million this season.