Dec
11
Witching hour rumors: The four pitchers and Manny
ByBefore Mike and Joe unleash the last Vegas RAB podcast on the world, let’s wrap up some late-night rumors:
- A few minutes ago, Ken Rosenthal was reporting that the Yanks were ready to offer five years and an absurd $91 million to A.J. Burnett, but he has since retracted that rumor. Instead, Rosenthal reports in his 11:25 p.m. update that the Yanks will sign one of A.J. Burnett or Derek Lowe and one of Andy Pettitte or Ben Sheets. The current outstanding offer to Burnett is five years and $80 million as far as we know.
From a personnel perspective, I’d go with Burnett and Sheets. From a contract perspective, I’d probably rather take Lowe’s four years and Sheets’ two or three. I think if the Yanks have their druthers, Pettitte is the odd man out.
- On the Pettitte front, the Los Angeles Times reports that despite numerous potential suitors, Andy Pettitte will probably retire if the Yanks don’t resign him for 2009.
- Dan Graziano, out of a job in January, notes that the Manny Ramirez talk is intensifying. Some factions with the Front Office want the Yanks to go after Manny. I like this move too. They won’t need to commit too many years to Manny, and he makes everyone else in the lineup better. This should probably still be considered a long shot, however. The Dodgers remain heavily involved with Manny.
116 Comments»
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The Mason Williams Watch
Lowe and Sheets – no question about it.
Lowe = as close to a guarantee for 200 innings as you can get and a low 4 era
Sheets = ace potential in the #4 spot in the rotation. Ben Sheets as a #4? Insane. Plus if he goes down we have Hughes waiting in the wings.
“Lowe = as close to a guarantee for 200 innings as you can get and a low 4 era”
You want that for 17M dollars? I mean Andy Pettitte can do that.
or jake peavy
sadly, 17M for 200 innings and a low 4 era is pretty close to market value
Hard to believe that Moose 8 years ago got similar dollars like that to be an Ace, now your gettin those dollars to be a 3/4 starter. Wow talk about incredible.
I don’t think Lowe will be any better in a return to the AL East than Andy Pettitte will be.
I’d rather have Pettitte AND Sheets than Lowe and anyone.
“Lowe = as close to a guarantee for 200 innings as you can get and a low 4 era”
The 200 innings you might be right about. The low 4 ERA? No way.
ah about time i was about to have a heart attack after that madness
seriously.. when I saw that 91 over 5.. i refused to believe it..
I want Pettitte and Sheets.. the two short options, neither of the longer term pitchers.. And we could look to save some money after signing the largest pitcher contract in the history of.
Where will Manny play? Damon and Matsui/Manny in the OF is a bad, bad, BAD OF.. Nady isnt a gold glover either.. Matsui and Damon are too expensive to be bench players.
bring manny in!!!
the biggest problem with past free agents on this team was legnth of deal – see Giambi. Manny wont give you that problem. He will be expensive, but he would have the biggest impact on this offense for 09 and 10 than anyone out there including Tex and still leave the team with flexibility because of the short term committment. They lose damon and matsui next season which will be a salry equal to or a little less than Manny plus AJax.
I would pay the extra short term contract tax in order to bring this guy in to bat in the middle of that lineup. There is room for him and the team could market him well – he being from NY and a great homerun hitter
As far as the pitching: My vote goes to Lowe and Sheets. With Lowe,
Sabathia and Wang the yanks have three horses to eat inning while joba develops and while sheets spends his 3 week vacation in August on the DL.
I say Burnett and Sheets. If there is enough to get Manny then lets get him as long as he knows he will be the main DH. Also why are the Yanks discussing Mike Cameron AGAIN??? NO CAMERON!!
since chicks dig the long ball and the Strikeout, i say CC, Burnett, Sheets, Wang, Joba, Hughes is truth.
we’re so naughty
Burnett and Pettitte or Sheets and Pettitte.
Lowe is a bad idea.
i dont think manny is a wise move… their priority should still be pitching
even after signing cc, their rotation right now as of this moment is cc, wang, joba, aceves, hughes
and even if they wanted to upgrade the offense, i would take dunn over manny… dunn would ((presumably)) cost less money, annually anyway, and is still in his prime years… not to mention doesnt have the alleged character issues of quitting early on a season ((manny in 06))…. faking injuries ((manny in 08)) or not running out ground balls ((also manny in 08))
but even still, pitching should be their priority, and as much as i dont wanna see a 5/91 deal for burnett, i would rather them overpay for pitching than overpay for hitting
pitching is their priority. they wont move on with Manny or anyone else until they get theor pitching straightened out, but they cant ignore all the really quality free agent hitters out there:
Manny, Bradley, Dunn
If the yankees do not sign these guys for 60 cents on the dollar than another team would.
Manny to me makes so much sense for this team in the short term and in the long run – Sign him to three years and if he is still Manny they can negotiate to keep him. If not they move in another direction. He would be essential for their success in 2009 and 2010 when they lose guys and the free agent market isnt all that great
he would be essential, but not as essential as having someone other than aceves and hughes in the 4/5 slots of the rotation
manny is a ridiculous upgrade to the offense, i just think with the salary he will command, his horrid defense, and his age/attitude issues, they would be better served spending money elsewhere… namely, lowe/sheets/pettitte, and if those dont work out, adam dunn
i cant see them moving on to manny until he is done with the pitching- meaning they have their 5 starters first.
manny isnt going anywhere yet and there will still be a lot of good offensive guys available come mid-january
“We obviously have a need to improve our starting rotation, period,” general manager Brian Cashman said. “It’s not just one; it’s more than one. My intent this winter is to try to improve the club any way I possibly can, but the main focus is going to be the rotation.”
quote from Cash. This should alleviate your concerns about going into camp with hughes and aceves in their rotation.
true… but what sucks is players and their agents know this information, and theyre gonna use it to squeeze every penny they can outta the yanks
im concerned with aceves and hughes being in the rotation, but im also concerned with giving pitchers outlandish contracts that will harm the team down the road
however, in cashman i trust
in past years i would agree, but this year nobody is signing and those that do arent getting big money (present yankee signings not included).
By all account Manny is going to wait for the dodgers to get back in and for the loser of the tex sweepstakes to come into the bidding – obviously not the sox, but it will be a few teams. Plus Boras will always give the yanks a chance to bid on his guy B4 he signs
And Ben’s coming around on Manny! Wooooo!
Someone call Cashman!
Coming around? I’ve been on the Manny bandwagon since before it was the cool thing to do. I’ve always liked the idea of his bat. I’m just a little scared of his age/attitude.
More than Teixieira? Or are you not there yet?
Ben, when I heard you were in law school, I thought.. “this guy is cool.”
When I heard you wanted Manny on the Yankees, I disabused myself of that thought.
Manny is a bad idea.
PS: Good luck with your exams… 1L, I presume?
From the Look of things if they do sign AJ, then chances are they will sign Pettitte.
There is no way there gonna sign AJ and Sheets to the team. That is basically suicide right there and too big of a risk.
If they sign Lowe, then the yanks could sign Sheets considering that they have Lowe as the innings eater and steady dude to help balance with Sheets.
Sheets and Pettite makes alot more sense.
totally agree which is all the more reason to get lowe as he allows them to get sheets (who girardi apparently loves according to your favorite Mr. Michael Kay).
Just cant see how Burnett manages to pitch more than 3 full seasons of a 5 year deal. With all the kids coming up, I dont want him clogging a spot for 5 years.
Another thing about lowe is that he supposedly learned a lot from maddux and has become a good teacher of young pitchers – gammons of course
I was reading through the Elias rankings and can’t seem to find Manny’s score. He wasn’t listed in the SI.com article that pops up when you search it. Type A, yes, but CC is ranked higher. The Dodgers would get a 2nd rounder plus a sandwich pick, yes? I mean, unless we got Tex AND Manny… lol.
unless we sign tex, the brewers are the only team that is getting our 1st rounder
Wouldn’t it suck to be the Brewers if we signed CC, Sheets and Teixeira and they got no pick.
Yeah, I was just wondering which of AJ, Lowe and Manny has the highest Elias score.
i havent looked it up and im too lazy to do so, but id be shocked if it wasnt manny
Ditto.
guessing, but I would say manny lowe than burnett. Dont know how much weight they put on ERA, WHIP vs. Wins, but just from reading their numbers it looks as though lowe has been better and healthier the past 2 years.
Burnett only threw 165 inning last year – on a side note only 135 the year before. why are they looking at this guy for 5 years. he has never even approached back to back 200 IP seasons. Best he has come was 173 in 2001 before his 204 in 2002. yuck
If that offer is true I just don’t know anything anymore.
Can you see a situation where the yankees take a 5 year offer to burnett and a 4 year offer to lowe and let each player know that the first one to sign gets the deal?
Also as much as I love him – given a choice between petitte and any of the other three – I have to go with any of the other three. Sheets in the 4th slot and lowe or even burnett in the 4th slot would give you the best rotation in baseball (on paper anyway)
Get Lowe and Sheets
Sign Manny
Look into the trading market to see if they can unload matsui, and/or get a true centerfielder.
finally, they should at least glance at the reliever market in january. I know their pen is great, but there could be big bargains out there when musical closers is finished. Could add a really quality arm on the cheap come the end of free agency. We know Cashman will keep his eye out at the very least
Pettitte is just as good as Lowe and he’s cheaper.
+1
may be a case of the devil you know vs. the devil you dont. While that saying usually is used to support keeping the status quo, in baseball the opposite thinking is often the case. not only fans, but also managment seems to prefer the devil they dont
Braves would be dickheads if they don’t sign AJ Burnett. Come on Atlanta, do ya job.
agreed i think the braves in the end will do the best in the interest of burnett
“i think the braves in the end will do the best in the interest of burnett”
what does this mean? not being a jackass, its just worded awkardly and im not sure what you are saying
let me explain myself then i mean that the best interest for burnett is to sign with them for that dumb contract
right, but if the yanks offer a dumber contract, then his best interest shifts to the yankees right?
in the end, i dont see the braves winning a money war… though i hope im wrong
you better be wrong i hope
ben, u seem to favor burnett over lowe and pettitte so let me ask u this… if lowe signs elsewhere, what is your absolute ceiling contract u would give burnett if u were cashman? at what point would it be too high?
“the Manny Ramirez is intensifying. ”
I promise I’m not pointing this out in the comments to be a jerk…just because it conjures up this hilarious image in my mind of Manny Ramirez staring balefully into the camera, leaning slowly forward with his eyebrows beetling, his dreadlocks being tossed by a sudden wind.
Intense.
lmao
maybe his laid back attitude will rub off on AROD and he will stop grinding his teeth throughout every post-season at bat
as long as arod doesnt overexaggerate his injuries and not run out ground balls as a result, then thats fine
Wang wants an extension …
That’s what she said.
I get those e-mails too. Just erase them.
Ugh. I promise when the winter meetings are over and traffic calms down a bit, we’ll make an effort to proofread better. That’s sloppy on our part.
met fans celebrating a world series after getting Putz.
Seemed like they got a hell of a deal for him and didnt give up much to get him and isnt jeremy reed a pretty good guy going back
Our guys have clearly taken the most optimistic view of Burnett’s future health and performance, which IMO doesn’t mesh with Cash’s “farm-first” philosophy. We’re on the verge of cogging TWO spots in the rotation for the next 5 years. FIVE YEARS.
Hmm… i wonder how many years CMW is going to ask when the Yanks approach him??
How can someone clog a rotation spot if they’re on the DL? Have we learned nothing from Carl Pavano?
two guys?? i think most of us have agreed that CC will be opting out after 3. and even if he didnt… i wouldnt mind him taking away time from our young guys if hes pitching like we expect
It doesn’t clog anything unless they have a no-trade clause.
i just wanna point out what a ridiculous job tim dierkes is doing with the winter meetings… the guy is an animal… its like he doesnt even take breaks to piss or grab a meal… phenomenal job
and you too ben
Einstein didn’t go to the bathroom either.
And Mike and Joe. Give them credit too. They’re actually in Vegas doing a lot of on-the-ground reporting and generally excellent coverage of the meetings. All I’m doing is procrastinating studying.
good point… all 3 of yall are doing a great job… really appreciate the work yall have put in
u never answered my earlier question… what is your CEILING contract for burnett in years/dollars?
i ask cuz u seem to favor him over lowe and pettitte so i was curious
Maybe adding Manny to the zoo would take some heat off A-Rod . If I had my druthers though it would be pettite, sheets, tex. we don’t need any pitchers for more than a couple years until the young guys can step up. better to put the money into tex (and keep him away from the sox).
rotation as of this minute:
1. cc
2. wang
3. joba
4. aceves
5. hughes
ipk/mcallister/giese i guess would be the insurance for injuries
theyre very strong top heavy, but they dont have any depth… the yankees need pitching more than ppl realize… which is why even after CC theyre still going full throttle in free agency
I agree add Sheets and Pettite for the short term commitment and longterm flexibility then go hard after Texeira to either get him or drive up the Red Sox price. If they get him we need to get Manny on three or four year deal. Manny and C.C. Would add some personality to this team. Which it sorely needs! Our veterans have become complacent and we need to inject some life into our sterile environment.
i been sayin it for a while sign mannyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy i think his bat would b huge dont kare about his looks this guy kan hit and hes proved it alot in his career
is putting a “k” instead of a “c” supposed to be cute, annoying, attention getting, or all of the above?
i vote for kweer- not that there’s anything wrong with that
did u wash this pear? cuz it looks like it hasnt been washed…
I think its meant to be kute not cute
Cash is either keeping negotiations with him going so that they have more leverage, or he really does think burnett has turned the corner.
at least we no longer have to guess at which faction of the organization is offering the deal
Facebook status: Joseph has Sabathia, now the Yanks need Sheets, Pettitte and Tex.
Sounds good? Although we may have to put the roogy Manny Ramirez in place of Tex.
I’m sitting here all ticked off as all these Burnett rumors keep gaining momentum, and years.
I think that everything is wrong with it and don’t understand the Yankees possibly see that warrants giving him 5 years.
He’s oft-injured.
Last year he finally made it through the season, yet posted an ERA of more than 4.5 against teams other than the Yanks.
When matched up against Sheets it’s not even close. One is an ace when healthy, the other is mediocre when off the injured list. I’d prefer to give Sheets another $5 mil and make it $35 mil for 2 years.
Bottom line, overpaying for 2 years on a potential ace isn’t half as bad as overpaying for 5 years on a mediocre pitcher.
Also, now that we have CC locked up it definitely lessens the “desperate” measures that we thought we’d have to resort to.
I just don’t understand it, and am itching all over just from thing of 5 years of AJ.
Yeah, I don’t understand why we wouldn’t go for Sheets and Pettitte — much safer commitments, unlike A-Rod / Madonna.
That’s probably my first choice too.
totally agree
http://riveraveblues.com/2008/.....ent-226182
But Burnett throws 98 mph.
So you’d prefer 98 MPH (when healthy) to an ERA that’s better by a run and a half? Come on.
he was being sarcastic with that comment.
im assuming he was being sarcastic
But he throws 98!! Imagine if Hughes threw 98.
Gee whiz, I shouldn’t be making a fool of myself when tired.
so did farnsworth
Well you know he had a no hitter once maybe they’re hoping he’ll do that a lot. What are 9 walks if nobody makes good contact?
If those are the conditions I take Lowe and Sheets. Add Dunn and unless a deal for Peavy is possible (w/o giving up our bigtime prospects) then I call it a day.
would u bring back pettitte?
no manny? if they dealt Nady, they could theoretically have dunn and manny. dunn plays 1st and swisher moves around the OF and 1B
how sick would that line-up be
Sheets ! Sheets ! Sheets !
I would have been here earlier but that blonde on the bed writting w/ her laptop at the entrance pg. had me captivated.
SASHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pettitte should get 22 mil for 2 more years.
SHeets?
Burnett is a much better pitcher.
andy seems perfectly content with 1 year, so why offer 2?
Ten bucks says a story comes out tomorrow that uses the Mets’ acquisition of JJ Putz to set-up Francisco Rodriguez as “proof” that the Yankees need to put Joba Chamberlain back in the bullpen.
*Or a certain, gelatinous, talk-radio host.
i stopped listening to franny a long time ago… i dont even think he believes what he says, just says stuff that will get a rise out of people
however, once u realize hes doing this, he becomes a lot less interesting, hence the reason i stopped listening to him
YES rosenthal has taken that ridicolous offer of 91 mil of his blog thats a good sign
sheets vs. petitte. do you take a guy like sheets who will most likely give you only 25 starts a year or petitte who will most likely give you 32,33.
Sheets is the better pitcher in my book and i think the book of most others. petitte is safer and NY driven, but i want to go into October with a dominant 1-4. the yankees have the resources on their team to give sheets extra rest or a DL trip in August to relax a bit. They already have hughe, aceves, and kennedy in AAA and I could see them signing a guy like freddie garcia or even smoltz on a split contract where they begin in the minors – doing what the sox do every year and giving theor starters off-time by moving other guys in and out.
not to mention smoltz has pitched out of the pen and come october – assuming the staff of sabathia, wang, lowe, sheets amd joba are all healthy – he could along with joba make for a great 6th through 8th inning shut down bullpen
if it was up to me, id pass on both lowe and aj, and sign both andy and sheets… that gives u 3 durable inning eaters in CC, wang, and andy… and 2 guys u cant count on for 35 starts but could give you very high quality high upside pitching when they actually do pitch ((joba, sheets)) … i think that starting staff is very complementary to each other, with all 5 capable of an era lower than 4
agree
Slugger27…
I think you are making a lot of sense, with a rotation of; CC, CMW, Sheets Andy, and Joba with Phil picking up innings from Joba or injuries (they always happen). That is a damn good rotation, it may even be one of the best, with a good middle line-up bat and good “D”…………..! 27/09.
well now that the yanks did not made that dumb offer i expect to see burnett in a braves uniform
unfortunately, i still see the yanks giving him 5 years with slightly higher AAV than whatever the braves do…. thus, i see aj being a yank by tomorrow
Dandy Andy and AJ come out to play!
“His agent, Craig Landis, said Putz wants to remain a closer.
‘He’s one of the top five or 10 closers in the game,’ Landis said. ‘No, he would not want to be a set-up man.’”
well…. this is awkward…
re: the ankiel rumor. Take it for what you wil. once you see the author i am sure you will understand why i said that.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12.....143473.htm
“From a personnel perspective, I’d go with Burnett and Sheets. From a contract perspective, I’d probably rather take Lowe’s four years and Sheets’ two or three. ”
Ben, I’m a little surprise by this. I know your down on Andy, but with each of the situations above your hanging RAB’s poster boys Hughes and IPK out to dry for two to three years.
One of the reasons I like Andy coming back, other then the fact that he is the cheapest 200 IP pitcher in the group, is that he only wants a year. This would leave the 5th spot in the rotation open in 2010 for our young developing pitchers.
Last year all we heard about is giving our young pitchers a chance and now we seem to be ok with making them wait at least 2 years before seeing the majors.
What a difference one bad April, not making the playoffs and a year makes.
“The Yankees have found their center fielder for 2009, as they are set to send Melky Cabrera to Milwaukee for veteran outfielder Mike Cameron on Thursday, according to two major league sources.”
Shit sorry i posted that already.
“Lowe = as close to a guarantee for 200 innings as you can get and a low 4 era”
The 200 innings you might be right about. The low 4 ERA? No way.
====================================================
He had a 3.24 era last year. Even if it increases by a FULL run it’s still 4.24.
“From a personnel perspective, I’d go with Burnett and Sheets. From a contract perspective, I’d probably rather take Lowe’s four years and Sheets’ two or three.”
From a talent perspective Burnett and Sheets is the right call. From a “likely to give you the most innings” perspective, that’s the worst combination.
NO to Burnett. Injury prone and not very good last season.
I’m wishy-washy on Lowe. He’s about as reliable as can be, and should be good for an era south of 4.5, but more than that I can’t really say. Pettitte should be able to roughly match it, but should be available for 1-2 years, instead of 4. So I lean Pettitte.
Sheets is interesting, but a real roll of the dice b/c of health. The team needs a 3rd starter capable of throwing ~200 innings. They’ve got 2 guys good for 200 IP each + Joba who should be good for 150. Hughes, et al. shoudl be in competition for the 5th spot. That leaves a hole in the middle. The best fits, then, are Pettite or Lowe, due to reliability. Sheets might be better when healthy, but if he fails to provide 200 IP (likely), then you’re back to plugging in Aceves/Giese/IPK/etc.
“… On the Pettitte front, the Los Angeles Times reports that despite numerous potential suitors, Andy Pettitte will probably retire if the Yanks don’t resign him for 2009…. “
CASHMAN YOU TEH SUX0R FOR NOT GIVEN ARB TO ANDY WE COULDA HAD PICKSS WTF WHY WE ALWAYS GETTIGN PLAYD!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Come on Tommy, you know good and well if they had offered Arb to Andy he would have accepted and gotten 17- 18 mm. Now, if we sign him, it will be for something around 10 to 13mm.
You were being sarcastic, right? 27/09.
You were being sarcastic, right?
When in doubt, assume yes.
Burnett and Pettitte