A matter of depth on the mound

Rosenthal Roundup: Nady, Pettitte
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Over at LoHud, Peter Abraham hit upon a topic yesterday weighing on the minds of the Yankee Front Office and the team’s fans. In light of all of the spending on two front-line starters and an All Star first baseman, do the Yankees have enough pitching depth? His answer, when the Yanks are compared to the Red Sox, is no. I disagree.

Here’s what Pete had to say on the topic, and the emphasis is clearly mine:

Penny, Smoltz, Masterson and Buchholz are much, much better options than Hughes, Kennedy, Aceves and the assorted dreck the Yankees have lined up.

The LoHud Yankees Blog charter states “We believe Phil Hughes will stay healthy and realize his vast potential as a starting pitcher.” But facts are facts. He has a 5.15 ERA and a 1.416 WHIP in 21 starts.

It’s not acceptable for a contending team to go into the season with four good starters and hold a contest for the fifth spot. You need to have a good No. 5 and decent options beyond that. Or do you believe that Sabathia, Burnett, Wang and Chamberlain will all stay healthy for six months?

Now, I have a few problems with this argument. First, “much, much better” is rather hyperbolic. While Brad Penny and John Smoltz certainly are, career-wise, much, much better than anyone the Yankees are throwing out there right now, will they be in 2009? Penny is a soon-to-be 31-year-old career NLer with unimpressive Interleague numbers. He is also coming off a shoulder injury but could wind up being a decent low-risk pick up for the Sox.

John Smoltz will turn 42 in May, a few weeks before he is set to return to game action after a major arm surgery. There are questions surrounding his health, and he has never pitched in the AL either. While the Red Sox don’t need much from Smoltz to get their guaranteed $5.5 million out of him, he, like Penny, is not a slam dunk.

Then, we get to the Hughes/Buchholz issue that any astute fan would recognize right away. Of course, we’re huge fans of Hughes around here, but you can’t dispute 106 innings of a 5.15 ERA and a 1.416 WHIP. There’s only one problem. Do you know who’s been worse in his career than Hughes? That’s right; it’s Mr. Laptop Lover himself, Clay Buchholz. In 98.7 innings, Buchholz — who, by the way, is two years older than Hughes — sports a 5.56 ERA and a 1.601 WHIP. In no way should be Buchholz be considered much, much better than Hughes. The jury is still out on Masterson, but he certainly has more upside than Giese. (Ed. Note: Originally, I had Bowden over Masterson. That was a mistake. Bowden is ninth on the Sox’s starting depth chart.)

Now, in a way, I’m being too hard on Pete’s argument. When you line up the two rotations, as things stand right now without Andy Pettitte or a similar starter, it breaks down something like this:

CC Sabathia – Josh Beckett
Chien-Ming Wang – Jon Lester
A.J. Burnett – Daisuke Matsuzaka
Joba Chamberlain – Tim Wakefield
Phil Hughes – Brad Penny
Al Aceves – John Smoltz
Ian Kennedy – Clay Buchholz
Dan Giese – Michael Bowden Justin Masterson

In that sense, you can see how the Red Sox, on the right, seem to have some more reliable names at the bottom of the order than the Yankees do, and those names do give the Red Sox the edge in that all-important depth category. Those pitchers, however, have question marks just as the Yanks’ bottom four do. Andy Pettitte would go a long way toward improving the Yanks’ rotation depth, but the Red Sox’s depth isn’t “much, much better” than the Yanks’ right now.

Rosenthal Roundup: Nady, Pettitte
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  • Tom Zig

    How much do you guys get paid if I click that YawkeyWay advertisement?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Contextual advertising kinda suck, eh?

      • Tom Zig

        hey you guys gotta get money somehow. I think its funny that you guys have Yawkey Way advertise on a Yankee website. If its pay per click, then I will definitely click Yawkey Way more than anything else.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

          Pay per click but AdSense knows when something’s looking fishy. We don’t “have” Yawkey Way advertise, per se. When the Google ad bots see “Red Sox” in the post, they just assume it’s a site receptive to Red Sox-focused advertising.

          • Mike Pop

            I didn’t know that was how it works. Interesting.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

              Interesting. And stupid.

          • Hobs

            We need a code name for “Red Sox”….would that work?

            • GoTerpsGo

              Red Sawx? Red Saux? Red Sucks?

  • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

    CC Sabathia – Josh Beckett Yankees

    Chien-Ming Wang – Jon Lester Yankees

    A.J. Burnett – Daisuke Matsuzaka Yankees

    Joba Chamberlain – Tim Wakefield Yankees

    Phil Hughes – Brad Penny Sox

    Al Aceves – John Smoltz Yankees, unless Smoltz is healthy, then Sox

    Ian Kennedy – Clay Buchholz Apocalypse

    Dan Giese – Michael Bowden Yankees, because I don’t know who this Bowden guy is

    • John

      I agree with all except that if Smotlz is healthy, that’s an even matchup imo since Smoltz will struggle a bit in the AL (more in AL Beast) and because Aceves was okay last year (we cannot assume he will be worse, we have to go with what we’ve seen so far)

      • Bill

        Really? Al Aceves even with a healthy John Smoltz. If Smoltz is 100% healthy and pitching like he was before he got injured he is a bonafide Ace in either league. Aceves is a mexican league pitcher who put up some nice numbers throughout the minors this year and had a nice short stint in the majors. John Smoltz is a hall of famer who when he was healthy was still pitching at that high level.

    • J.R.

      I think the numbers (b-ref) disagree with your dicek burnett argument.

      DiceK career era 2.90 whip 1.324
      Burnett career era 3.81 whip 1.284

      Similar, but edge goes to Dice-K, I hate to say it.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

        If Matsuzaka continues with that 1.324 WHIP, his career ERA won’t stay under 3.00 for long.

        • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

          Exactly.

        • J.R.

          In all fairness its only 12 additional base runners per year at 200 innings per year.

          With Dice-k’s 167 IP its only 10.

          While I agree WHIP is important, it isn’t a big difference in the two.

          • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

            And some would argue that there’s not really a big difference between four runs and three runs.

            • J.R.

              Dice-K avg. 264.8 base runners over 200 IP
              AJ avg 256.8 base runners over 200 IP

              We are talking about 4% more base runners in a season. My point is that it isnt a large difference.

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

                You’ve just proven why ERA is a worthless stat than to use as an evaluator. If they both allow similar number of baserunners, then why are their respective ERA’s separated by about 25 percent instead of 4 percent?

                Again, I maintain that if Dice-K continues to allow baserunners as this current pace, his career ERA will not remain nearly a full run lower than Burnett’s.

                • J.R.

                  Fair enough. I was trying to point out, that there isn’t a decisive advantage in burnett over dice-k.

                  Similar results as pitchers.

                • whozat

                  Matsuzaka also had an unsustainably low BABiP last year, and an epic BB/9 rate.

                  THAT is what indicates to me that he’s a worse pitcher than Burnett. If, of course, he can actually take the mound.

                  Now…Lester vs. Wang, on the other hand…I don’t know that I agree with that. Lester really turned a corner last season. He stopped walking so many, started going deeper into games…He’s probably going to be good for a while. Took him three years to get there, which Hughes detractors would do well to remember.

                • JeffG

                  I hate to defend Matsuzaka but he does seem to pitch around guys and focuses on getting the out when he needs to. ERA is not a useless stat in my opinion.
                  That said, I don’t think he is better than AJ or Wang. I think AJ is going to turn the corner and have a lower ERA this year. Pitching more than throwing in years past could prove to be a turning point. Mentally that is where he says he is at. We’ll see.

      • Bill

        I agree. Dice-K gets the edge there. I think you can also make an argument that Jon Lester is equal with Wang. Wang has had the better career, but Lester had a breakout year last year clearly has the momentum in his favor.

        I know we all like to assume our players are better when it is close, but personally I’d rather assume the opposite because when it comes to the rotation things haven’t panned out as we all expected (or rather hoped) it would.

        I totally agree with Pete that we need a legit #5 preferrably Pettitte. Hughes, Aceves, and Kennedy provide nice depth for injuries and Joba’s innings limit, but I woudln’t rely on them to fill a spot in our rotation AND fill in for injuries/innings limits. At least not until they prove they can handle it. They haven’t proven that yet, so I’d bring in someone else who has. With all the progress we’ve made this offseason it would be a shame if this year was wasted because we didn’t sign that one extra arm for around 10M. If Pettitte won’t accept that type of deal move onto other options like Garland or even Sheets. Garland would give us innings and quality starts, a prototypical #5. Sheets would give us a high potential arm that should be able to take up at leat some of the innings that would go to guys like Hughes, Aceves, Kennedy, and others. And if not one of those guys at least sign a reclamation project like Freddy Garcia.

      • Umm

        Umm, That’s not Daisuke’s career ERA.. it’s 3.72

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Just FYI to all: I had updated the post to change Bowden to Masterson. Clearly Justin Masterson is ahead of Bowden on the depth chart and probably Buchholz and Smoltz as well. Oversight by me.

      • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

        Have you also considered listing Coke? I know it’s a long shot, but if he can start like he pitched last September, well that’s something boston’s not going to like very much.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

          Everyone on both lists has starting experience in the Majors. If Coke gets that experience, I would add him to the list.

          • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

            works for me.

    • DP

      Bowden is a very hyped prospect of theirs. He gets hype similar to what Kennedy got (for whatever that’s worth). Regardless of if its Bowden or Masterson, that edge goes to them. And basically I think that sums up what the rotund one is trying to say—-the way you have it lined up, if Smoltz is healthy, their 5-8 are all better than ours.

    • MasterShake

      Wang over Lester? No disrespect to Wang, but I’d rather have Lester going into next year. Wang has a longer track record of success, but Lester was amazing last year at age 24 and there isn’t any reason to think he’ll have a drop-off.

      • John

        i dont think either have an advantage really

      • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

        Call it a gut feeling…but in the long run I think Wang will be better.

        • John

          oddly, i have a similar feeling too…dont know why though

          • Mike Pop

            I have a gut feeling that A.J. is going to have a Cy Young caliber year. ;)

          • sabernar

            I know why. You’re a Yankee fan.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

        Agreed. The only pitcher in the two rotations I would take over Lester is CC.

        • Artist formerly known as ‘The’ Steve

          You prefer Lester over a healthy Josh Beckett?

          • ryan

            Joba

      • Colombo

        Lester also had a HUGE jump in innings pitched last year, so it will be interesting to see if he holds up this year.

        • Jake H

          He did have a huge jump. I think he might have problems or will not be as effictive.

      • Ed

        The Verducci Effect says we should expect a large dropoff for Lester. 75 IP increase from 2007 to 2008. Anything more thtan 30 IP tends to lead to trouble.

        Even if you don’t believe 30 IP is a magical number, it was almost a 50% increase in workload, which should set off warning alarms.

    • Mike Pop

      I might have to say Lester is better than Wang but I know that he has to repeat it and all. But I think it is more of a toss up than a clear advantage to the Yankees.

    • Chrys

      I bump Giese up over Kennedy

  • John

    I agree with you Ben. The Sox may have a very slight advantage but overall, we do we have similar rotations. And if we resign Pettitte, we get a a little more advantage (unless its the ineffective Pettitte of 2nd half last year)

    Imagine our rotation had Moose returned…

    • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

      Yeah, but at the same time there’s no guarantee Moose could repeat what he did in 08.

      In 2008 he pitched like a guy that wanted to go out with a bang.

      • John

        true but we cannot assume that, because if we do, we can also assume Kennedy (and Hughes and Buchholz, etc.) lives up to his potential.

        • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

          Point taken =)

    • J.R.

      Had Moose returned I doubt we would have signed burnett. but just my guess.

      • John

        you’re probably right

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Imagine our rotation had Moose returned…

      That would be nearly ideal. You could probably pencil Moose 2009 in for ~180 innings of about 4.25 ERA. That’s just what the Yanks need.

      • Mike Pop

        Thats why Pettitte is important.

      • JeffG

        If Moose would have come back we might not have signed AJ – I think plenty of people here would be happy with that as before his signing most seemed skeptical of AJ’s durability.
        Moose would have been a multi year commitment and that blocks Hughes, IPK, et al. I’m happy with the way this offseason has gone so far. Just hoping that Andy comes on board by figuring out that he has the chance to be part of a winner this year.

  • J.R.

    But if you add in the fact that they dont have anyone who can catch their 4 starter, it becomes another issue altogether.

    What is the point of having a back of the rotation pitcher who cant be caught?

    • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

      Dude, I don’t think they have anyone to catch their 1, 2, 3 and 5 guys, either…

      At least, no one they want swinging a bat..

      • John

        thats good we took away Cash from them (though he only helps defensively)

      • J.R.

        Good point, but they dont have anyone who could catch wakefield. (If they do pull off the montero or salty trade who knows if they can catch the knuckler)

        • John

          Yea, and Bard is the back-up catcher, who’s role is to catch Wakefield. But the last time I checked, he had trouble catching him before.

          • DP

            That doesn’t HAVE to be the role of their backup catcher. The backup catcher can catch anyone (if there isn’t significant improvement catching Wakefield over the starter) It just so happened that Varitek sucks at catching Wakefield so they used that as a day off for his old bones.

            • John

              true it doesnt HAVE to be

              • Mike Pop

                Hey if Bard puts up numbers he is capable of, he could be offensively a top 30 catcher in the league. ;)….That was from WEEI? I think.

  • YANKEES101

    Almost everyone has praised the Sox for taking a chance on these guys. Also, some have said the Yanks should have taken a chance on them too. Though I agree to some degree, I am happy the Yanks did not get them as they were signed to a Major League deal and will require a roster spot. Minor league deals are okay we could not really sign them to MLB deals.

  • MegaSox

    Mr. Abraham had one to many muches in there. But you must admit, Burnett is himself a question mark. If you figure in his history of going on the injured list, is he really better than any of the Sox top 3? I don’t think so. If (big if I admit) Penny and Smoltz are healthy, Wakefield will be out, and the advantage will clearly be with the Sox. Smoltz, by the way, has never given up an earned run at Fenway (20 innnings). He can’t wait to pitch there regularly.

    The Sox bullpen is also much deeper than last year. Delcarmen’s inconsistency cost them a lot of leads, and games, last year.

    Yankees’ nightmare scenario: Sox sweep in and sign Manny at the last minute.

    I hope the Yankeses make the playoffs this year – I really do. It’s so much fun to beat them. 2004!

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Yankees’ nightmare scenario: Sox sweep in and sign Manny at the last minute.

      Wait. Are you serious? You can’t possibly be serious. Manny would rather retire than ever land in Boston again. Remember how he orchestrated a trade out of that town?

      • Ed

        If his goal was to get out of the town, he wouldn’t have required his options to be declined as part of the trade. His goal was to get out of his contract. Getting out of Boston was the means of getting the options declined without totally destroying his value.

    • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

      Umm, you do realize that Manny wanted out of Boston, right?

    • John

      The Sox worst case scenario (which actually has some possibility unlike the one you stated): The yanks sign Manny to be DH and then trade Matsui for a good prospect while having a good outfield AND a good bench with either Nady or Swish there.

    • Mike Pop

      Ya, your right. The Sox are interested in Manny. Got news for you, somethign like 2004 will never happen again.

      • John

        exactly…it will only happen if the yanks will be down 0-3 in the series which cant happen ;)

    • JeffG

      Manny? You’d have more luck trying to trade for Texiera. Meanig none.
      Just a reminder – the Sox picked up his salary after the trade so actually you Sux fans paid for two teams to make the playoffs. Nice work but its not going to happen this year.

    • nmc

      Just remember that 2004 and 2007 do not make up for 86 years of mediocrity. Give me a call when you get to 26. At this rate we’ll probably be at 70 by then.

  • John

    if they get Montero and our Montero stays at catcher…it’ll create another sub-rivalry between the two teams for many years

    • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

      Yeah, well, we have Jesus.

      • John

        our montero is better already imo at 19 only…my personal favorite prospect

        • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

          I couldn’t believe how jacked he was when I saw the picture of him last year.

          Hope he manages to get good enough defensively…

          • John

            I hope so too

      • JeffG

        Jesus, son of Mo.

  • Sidney Ponson

    Hey, you guys forgot about me!

  • Mike Pop

    Ben, or anyone who knows about Hagadone,

    What does this guy project to be, I read sox fans comments and they say he could be a potential ace. Is this true? How good is this kid?

    • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

      A southpaw that throws a 92-93 MPH heater – and can punch it up to 95+ – with good, late life and has a plus slider. He also is equipped with a changeup, but that pitch is still a work-in-progress for the former Washington closer. His delivery has question marks, he is coming off TJS and I do believe the Red Sox have not definitely set his role as a starter or reliever. His floor is probably a late-inning reliever that can rack up the strikeouts against both RHB and LHB; his ceiling is that of a top-of-the-rotation starter. However, he may not ever get the control needed to be an “ace”.

      • Mike Pop

        Grazie!

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      He’s good, but let’s see how he comes back from TJ before we anoint him the Second Coming.

      • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

        He and Josh Reddick are my two “favorite” Red Sox prospects. I just love Reddick, he looks like such a stereotypical, in-bred, Southern hillbilly, it’s hilarious. However, I wonder if he can hit for enough power to make up for his less-than-stellar plate discipline.

  • DP

    I love how in order for the Red Sox offseason to work, they’d have to send Wakefield to the bullpen (which I read somewhere, forget where) wouldn’t work at this stage of his career, keep Buchholz in AAA- which is unnecessary for his development at this point, cut Lopez and his 59 IP of ~2.50 ERA from last year, and have a starting OF get hurt. Then, and only then, can they “show off” their stud 3 pitchers who combined for 160 IP last year, and hometown Rawcko Bawldelli who had 80 AB.

    Sounds like a great plan.

    • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

      Perhaps the Sox logic was “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”, except they never really decided to fix the problem of Manny going bye bye.

      • Mike Pop

        Heh, can’t wait to not see Manny in that 4 hole for the whole season. So nice, after 7.5 years. It’s all over.

  • Reggie C.

    So the way i look at it, the RS start winning the head-to-head matchups in the depth department AFTER the 4th slot. Between slots 1-4, we’re either ahead or on par with Sox pitching. It’d be nice to match up against Penny with a proven league average pitcher in Pettitte.

    One thing i gotta say. No way is Hughes or Aceves more effective than John freaking Smoltz. John Smoltz at half a tank is going to be more effective than all our options after the 4th slot.

    • John

      not if Hughes pitches like he did in the AFL (where he did well while learning a pitch, and had more velocity/control)

      • Reggie C.

        Not that AFL counts for much but Hughes got destroyed by the stronger hitting teams at Arizona. Those rough starts he had were against the teams featuring stacked lineups. Those gems were against not-so-impressive lineups. Not that the AFL counts for much…

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

          Phil Hughes had a bad game in the AFL in which he got destroyed and one innings-limit shortened game. Here is his game log. I think you’re overstating the case a bit.

          • Reggie C.

            Two rough starts. I thought there was a third one in there.

            • whozat

              Pretty sure he also tore off a fingernail before that terrible start.

              Makes it hard to throw that cutter and snap off the breaking pitches.

        • John

          not saying it counts but im just saying if he gets similar overall stats (somehow)

          he has to stay healthy first though

    • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

      Yeah, but Smoltz still has to be healthy enough to pitch, and that’s right now a big if.

      • Reggie C.

        Maybe its just my worst-case-scenario mind, but i’d be very surprised not to see Smoltz on the mound right after the all-star break.

        • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

          Well, given that he’s supposed to be good to go in June, that’s a logical assumption.

          Still that leaves the Red Sox shy two months.

      • Reggie C.

        Let me add to my post. I’ve read reports saying that barring setback Smoltz would miss only the first 2 months of the season.

        • Sweet Dick Willie

          Well, his contract calls for a $35,000 per day bonus for every day he is on the active (25 man) roster from June 1- Oct 3.

    • Mike Pop

      I think our 5th spot matches up with Penny. Noone knows what he can put up and especially coming off a bad year. I agree Smoltz is nasty and all but he has to come back and be able to pitch first. As much as I liked the guy, I really hope he can’t pitch effectively at all this year.

  • http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?id=1383090075 Brad

    John Smoltz is a great pitcher. If he maintains health and his stuff is good, I think his translation to the AL will be A-OK. It was a great move, and I think it makes the Red Sox #5 situation markedly better than NY’s. That being said, I could easily see the top-4 on the Yanks playing dramatically the Red Sox frontmen so I still think we’ll be okay.
    But yo, Mr. Cashman, pleeease sign Pettitte and his 3.74 FIP. I really think he near-locks a division title for NY.

  • J.R.

    Ok Ben, so I looked at fangraphs to compare 2008 dice-k vs 2008 aj (in terms of value).

    Dice-k 3.5 value wins at $15.5
    Aj 4.1 at $18.3

    I stand corrected.

    • J.R.

      But, AJ does have significantly higher values in contract years.

      • Mike Pop

        Doesn’t everyone?…..except Andruw

  • Dave

    We have about 10 starting pitchers below kennedy on the depth chart none of whom have any worth on next years team or possibly any years team. Why not trade them with nady for a quality 200 inning pitcher. Wouldnt Nady, Kennedy and Cox land us something decent or Nady, Aceves, Veras and Steven Jackson?

    This is besides the point. Who cares how the yankees depth stacks up against the sox. We need to see how our depth stacks up against the season. And at this point not well at all. We are basically relying on the big three pitchers stay healthy all season or none of Joba, Hughes, Aceves and Kennedy to pitch ineffectively in the majors. If this happens we have The big three, joba and aceves starting the season and after a certain innings limit both joba and aceves are replaced in the majors by both Hughes and Kennedy. Coke can start all he once in ST but unless the yanks are planning on staring him over joba or aceves during the season or having a six man rotation, it doesnt matter b/c Coke is going right back to the pen (where he belongs). Geise should NOT be in the starting rotation but kept in the bullpen as a long reliever or in the minors.

    SO who do we have left for our so called depth right now? All of the 8 pitchers mentioned are already slotted to start at some point this season and none have even really proven they can for any significant length of time outside of Joba. Meanwhile, we have pretty much no one backing them up for injuries and ineffectiveness in the second half of the season. Joba and aceves reach their limits and kennedy is horrible or AJ gets injured or BOTH and then, what? We make an immediate trade when the team we are trading with has all the leverage in the world or we sign and start a sidney ponson type or rely on steven jackson or Humberto sanchez and pray for the best. Why put the team in that type of miserable situation when it can be prevented for a fraction of the cost we have already spent. 400 mil on three players and the yanks cant put in the extra 8 to 12 mil for one last starter to solidify the rotation and give us some actual depth because players who are already slotted to start at the beginning of the season arent exactly depth if you know what i mean. tHERE is absolutely no reason to leave the trapdoor to this potential calamity wide open when it takes so little to close it up.

    We could sign pettitte for 12 mil, sign sheets for less than 10 mil for one season possibly or sign garland for less than 8 mil for one season. As I said before, we could trade a package of nady and prospects for a quality NL starter with 200 inning potential as well. That is at least four options right there that alleviate this potentially dangerous problem all costing 12 mil or less most likely. If we traded for harang he would be 11 mil next season as well. Is it worth spending less than 12 mil to ensure that an injury or two wont result in a complete collapse like last season by the rotation? i would hope so if aj Burnett was worth 16.5. Funny thing is, we could have taken AJ’s 16.5 mil and gave 10 mil or so to sheets and 7 mil or so to garland spending essentially the same money and had a rotation of CC, wang, sheets, Joba, Garland over CC, wang, AJ, joba, aceves for only a couple million more at most. Maybe i AM wrong because i dont know what sheets or garland will end up getting but i doubt i am too far off. Past is past anyway and that is totally irrelevant – what matters is we NEED another starting pitcher and it wont cost the yanks hardly anything to get one. They have nothing to lose by signing someone but a lot to lose by going into the season as is where the rotation looks almost as risky as it did last season even though it has better player and cost the yanks over 240 mil (more than the entire team this season).

    • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      Dude, get a blog. lol

      • Dave

        Mondesi,

        I dont know how …

        • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

          Seriously, dude…If you can write that much, you really should get a blog.

          • Dave

            I would but i have no idea how to set it up or run it or even get readers. i wouldnt know how to do anything except write.

      • Mike Pop

        Lol, I agree. Your worrying a bit too much. All your posts are so long. That’s a good thing though. You add alot to the convo.

        • Dave

          Thank mile i appreciate it.

      • Dave

        Mondesi,

        I dont really understand yours beef with garland. Outside of pettitte, he is one of our best options. And if you want pettitte, compare their numbers in 2006 and 2007. They are eerily similar especially in era plus which is a pretty good measure of overall performance. Last year, garland was somewhat worse but he is also significantly younger and probably not on the decline due to age like pettitte may be. I realize pettitte is a slightly better option because he already knows how to pitch in NY and his playoff stats are superb but what is pettitte doesnt come back. Garland is a perfectly feasible option to give us the extra 200 innings we need.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

          Gardland’s peripherals have all declined over the past three years. I want nothing to do with that guy.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          I dont really understand yours beef with garland. Outside of pettitte, he is one of our best options.

          Garland is one of our best options only if are options are as follows:

          1) Jon Garland
          2) Oliver Perez
          3) Forfeit every fifth day
          4) hire a series of hitmen to assassinate random members of the other team every fifth day in hopes of inducing an opponent forfeit
          5) disband the team and stop playing baseball

          Phil Hughes, Al Aceves, and Ian Kennedy are all far superior options than Jon Garland. Hell, Dan Giese, Eric Hacker, and Steven Jackson are probably superior options than Jon Garland.

          That’s not praise of Hughes/Aceves/Kennedy/Giese/Hacker/Jackson… that’s damnation of Garland. He sucks. HE SUCKS. BADLY.

    • Reggie C.

      i tried to ….I ran a word search instead. Lets not forget that the additions to the 40 man roster like Chris Garcia and Eric Hacker could be viewed as emergency starters if guys like Aceves and Kennedy weren’t available.

      • Dave

        They could be but I am talking about one major injury to one starter or ineffectiveness of hughes or kennedy after joba and aceves are out of the rotation due to pitching limits – that means we need more than an emergency start. We need a permanent spot on the rotation filled for the remainder of the season if it is in the second half. Those guys cannot be relied upon for something like that.

    • Brooklyn Ed

      dude that’s what I been telling you on LoHud.

      GET A BLOG!

    • steve (different one)

      . Funny thing is, we could have taken AJ’s 16.5 mil and gave 10 mil or so to sheets and 7 mil or so to garland

      what’s even funnier is that this isn’t a good idea.

      at all.

      Garland sucks and Sheets is injured.

      IF SHEETS WERE HEALTHY SOMEONE WOULD HAVE SIGNED HIM ALREADY.

      CAN WE PLEASE LET IT GO?

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        You know how Katie Holmes topless was the exact opposite of the Holocaust?

        Jon Garland is the exact opposite of Katie Holmes topless.

      • Mike Pop

        IF SHEETS WERE HEALTHY SOMEONE WOULD HAVE SIGNED HIM ALREADY.CAN WE PLEASE LET IT GO?

        Completely agree. I was trying to say that last night.

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

    Okay, I feel like getting in on the action.

    CC > Beckett > Kazmir
    Lester > Shields = Wang
    Burnett = Garza = Dice-K
    Joba > Sonnanstine > Wakefield
    Price > Penny > Hughes
    Smoltz > Niemann > Aceves
    Talbot > Bowden > Kennedy

    Masterson’s a reliever, he’s got nothing to get lefties out in a starting role.

    Obviously I’m assuming perfect health, which is far from a given with guys like AJ, Wang, Smoltz, Penny, Hughes, etc.

    • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

      Masterson’s a reliever, he’s got nothing to get lefties out in a starting role.

      Yeah, that’s why I was wondering why Ben changed his original post, I thought he had it right the first time.

    • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

      CC > Beckett > Kazmir
      Agreed

      Lester > Shields = Wang
      I’d take Wang over Shields, but maybe that’s because I remember the 21-4 July 07 game

      Burnett = Garza = Dice-K
      I’ll give you that, though Dice-K’s stats are probably gonna blow up if he doesn’t get that control figured out.

      Joba > Sonnanstine > Wakefield
      Agreed

      Price > Penny > Hughes
      Agreed

      Smoltz > Niemann > Aceves
      Assuming Smoltz is healthy, yes.

      Talbot > Bowden > Kennedy
      Don’t know anything about Talbot, but it’s hard to be worse than Kennedy.

      • Mike Pop

        Talbot > Bowden > Kennedy
        Don’t know anything about Talbot, but it’s hard to be worse than Kennedy.

        Ah, your one of those fans huh?

        • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

          Nah, I want to like Kennedy-he was just pretty awful last year. And it probably doesn’t help that the one game of the year he pitched where the Yankees won, I was in Italy so I had no idea about it until I got back!

          • Mike Pop

            Was that the game against the Orioles?

            • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

              Might have been, like I said, I wasn’t even in the US at the time.

              I was too busy looking at Michaelangelo and Da Vinci to know what Iannangelo was doing ;)

              • Mike Pop

                Ya I think he pitched it and it was the game that Cano had a walk-off. My Dad was there for that game, that is why I think I am remembering the right game.

    • Mike Pop

      So what your saying is we have the best rotation. I can live with that.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

        Well, if we assign points (3 for the best pitcher, 2 for the second, 1 for the first) based on my rankings and add them up, we get:

        Sox: 16
        Rays: 15
        Yanks: 13

        I just gave each team 3 points for the AJ-Garza-DiceK tie. This highly scientific and not in any way arbitrary analysis suggests the Yanks have less depth than the other two teams.

        They really should sign Pettitte. I wish Andy would wise up and take the $10M.

        • Mike Pop

          Yup. Pettitte would be huge for us and really solidify the rotation. I guess I read your formula wrong. Ha

        • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

          Yeah, me too.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

          Also, Smoltz is a big wildcard. If he comes back strong and is even 80% of the pitcher he can be, that’s a huge advantage for the Sox. He’s not some sissy NL pitcher that won’t be able to cut in the AL East.

          Fun fact about Brad Penny: he’s got a 4.09 ERA & 1.37 WHIP over the last four years.

          • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

            So why does everyone keep calling Penny an ace? Or were the Dodgers just that starved for pitching?

          • Reggie C.

            We all doubt Penny’s ERA/WHIP will translate as smoothly to the AL East. But it shouldn’t be dismissed either. Penny is a legit 4/5 guy, who in a good year should keep his team in more ball games than not.

      • Reggie C.

        Looks like a tie to me. I know Smoltz is listed in the 6th slot, but you gotta think that he moves right into the Wakefield/Penny spot IMMEDIATELY upon return from the DL. I think Smoltz is the wild card.

    • DP

      What about Buchholz? Below Bowden?

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

        Shit. Forgot about him. I’d put him in Bowden’s spot, but I would keep that same order:

        Talbot > Buchholz > Kennedy

        • DP

          Talbot had an 11.17 ERA last year. Bust if I ever saw one!

    • DP

      I think this feature needs to be made into a post with bullpen, lineup, and bench comparisons. We can figure out who will win the AL East before the season even starts!

    • Infamous
    • http://liberalmusings.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

      Masterson = Scott Proctor w/ the Yankees in 2006/7

  • Dave

    We have the best rotation to begin the season with perhaps but that doesnt mean we dont need more depth. yes, CC is great and wang is great and AJ has the potential to be great and Joba is great but they are all big risks healthwise. The rest of them are big risk stuff-wise and i think AJ and Hughes may be big risks in both categories. That means we need a good amount of depth. We dont really have any if you consider joba,hughes the fourth starter combined and aceves/kennedy the fifth combined which is reasonable. Where is our depth then? It is gone because we have practically none. One more starter signing and everything will change.

    • DP

      When did CC become a big health risk? Also I think Wang is OK if he avoids running the bases…

    • Brooklyn Ed

      please go here: blogspot.com

      its time for you to start your own blog. rant all you want.

  • http://twitter.com/OldRanger Old Ranger

    Why is it a sin to have buchholz start the season in AAA but, Phil must start in AAA? Phil got lit up last year but, Buchholz was worse. It really doesn’t mater, we don’t have a say in it anyhow.

    It seems there are a lot of IF’s with both rotations, am I wrong to assume this is the case…er, health wise anyhow? To me, it looks as though the teams are well matched all the way around. I guess it will come down to who is hot at the right time.

  • Dave

    We dont need some fancy analysis of the sox compared to the yanks depth charts to realize the yanks need another signing. The sox are completely irrelevant to how much depth the yanks have. We should take an innings total that the starters should reach like 1000 and see how many starters of the top part of the list will fill those innings – We need our top eight starters at least to get to that number assuming everyone is healthy and effective. If not, we need more than our top eight meaning minor league talent to reach the magic number that most playoff teams had close to from their starting staff. You trust our double and triple a guys pitching in the majors like chase wright and steven jackson in august and september next season because i dont.

    • Reggie C.

      The Sox and Rays aren’t relevant to our depth discussion, but considering those 19 games we play against each squad, and the likelihood that a couple of those match ups could feature Aceves or Kennedy then including a look at divisional foes only fuels the urgency.

      Seeing Smoltz lurk in that 6th spot and knowing he WILL displace Wakefield should push Cash to up that Pettitte offer by a million or two.

  • Dave

    Brooklyn Ed,

    I barely ever even post here on this blog. And what does it even matter to you if i post here? Read or skip the posts. Do whatever you want. I dont see how my posting long posts matters so much.

    • Brooklyn Ed

      dude chill out…this is the same Ed from LoHud. so no harm no foul.

      • Dave

        oh sorry. I didnt know it was the same ed. As long as you were not trying to be offensive which was what i originally thought, I may take you up on the idea though. Im thinking about it. Thanks for the advice.

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

    That’s right; it’s Mr. Laptop Lover himself, Clay Buchholz. In 98.7 innings, Buchholz — who, by the way, is two years older than Hughes — sports a 5.56 ERA and a 1.601 WHIP.

    Take out the no hitter, and that’s a 6.12 ERA & 1.73 WHIP in 89.2 IP.

    • Mike Pop

      Bust

    • Brooklyn Ed

      how about the bullpen comparisons?

      • Mike Pop

        1-Yankees
        2-tie between the Sox and Rays.

        • Brooklyn Ed

          I think the Rays should be #3, I don’t think they will repeat or at least post up the same numbers as 2008.

          • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

            Yeah, but couldn’t you make that same argument against anybody in the Yankees’ pen not named Mariano Rivera or Damaso Marte? Also, you could make the same argument against anybody in Boston’s bullpen not named Jonathan Papelbon and probably Hideki Okajima.

            • Brooklyn Ed

              touche. point taken.

  • Dave

    DP

    i didnt meant to write all big health risks. i meant to write they are all health risks. Some like aj are obvious big while others like CC are small but they each have risk for a different reason.

  • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

    Heh, I thought that Orlando-Cabrera-to-the-Florida-Marlins thing was just for show:

    The Blue Jays and Marlins have shown some interest in Cabrera, but any team that signs the “Type A” free agent owes the Sox a high draft pick.

    [From Scott Gregor, reporter for the Arlington Daily Herald, via MLBTR.]

    http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1240

  • Ivan

    All these arguements about the pitching and etc just gets me riled up for the start of the season to answer these questions.

  • Ivan

    Oh yeah,

    CC>Beckett>Kaz
    Lester>Shields=Wang
    Burnett>Dice-K
    Joba>Andy S.>Wakefield
    Price>Hughes>Penny
    Smolz>Davis>IPK
    Buchholz>Davis>Aceves.

    • Ivan

      Burnett>Garza>Dice-K.

  • Andy

    I don’t think it’s a classic act to routinely bash down Clay Buchholz because the facts he has stolen some laptops. I think it’s harsh and we all made mistakes in our life.

  • Phil McCracken

    Sorry I can’t agree with this logic at all.

    Until Phil Hughes can pitch a full season MLB season, he’s not as good as Penny.

    And until Ian Kennedy can admit that 9 hits in 2 innings isn’t “pretty good” he’s not as good as Smoltz. Even if Smoltz is pitching at 50% health.

  • http://nyfaninboston.blogspot.com/ Manimal

    When you line it up like that, I like the Burnett signing even more. I don’t think Lowe would have made it that dangerous.

    • ryan

      especailly against the sawx

  • Brian M

    With the way the market has developed, Sheets can’t expect more than a 1 yr deal. Why don’t we sign him for a deal similar to the one Smoltz got and give him a chance to show he is healthy and go for a bigger deal next winter when the market could be better?

    He is an injury risk, but in the same way Smoltz is a luxury for the Sox, Sheets could be for us. If he is healthy down the stretch that could justify his salary. If he misses a month or two then Hughes and Kennedy get a chance to show they haven’t forgotten how to pitch.

    I think Sheets should be better that Pettitte when healthy.

    • Sweet Dick Willie

      “when healthy” being the operative phrase. And therein lies the problem.

  • Artist formerly known as ‘The’ Steve

    Sox can win the depth battle all they want. Depth is important for the regular season, upside is important for the post season. I think we have plenty to get us to the post season, and the game by game match ups favor us once were there. Don’t forget, you’re often going with a 3 man rotation in the playoffs and Burnett owns the Sox.

    Also, something was going on with Beckett last year. They shut him down for close to a month and he still wasn’t right for much of the playoffs. That’s something that bears watching, remember that some in the Red Sox front office wanted to back out of the 2005 Marlins deal at the last minute when they saw Beckett’s medicals. I’m also in the camp that Dice-K is slowly becoming Hideo Nomo part 2, he can’t keep being successful with his walk rate from last year.

  • ryan

    I really don’t think penny is gonna be good this year… just feel like he’s gonna get rocked coming into the AL with that straight Fastball. I remember becketts transition to the AL was pretty rough as well until he got more comand with his breaking stuff. When he came in trying to blow it by guys all the time he got rocked and I can see that happening with penny.

    • http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=43434432275 Ace

      I don’t understand why Penny’s fastball would be more effective in the NL (Pujols, Braun, Utley) than it would be in the AL (ARod, Hamilton, Vlad)

      Do those guys magically hit fastballs better?

      • ryan

        no but don’t you find it strange that he gets shitted on in interleague? im talkin’ about facing a league as a whole not the top 3 hitters of that league. He’s lost some MPH on that fastball and facing a pitcher with straight heat is easier than facing a hitter with it. It’s a given that the AL East is tougher on a pitcher simply for the fact of facing a more qualified hitter tucked away in the DH spot. If you were penny who would u rather face Matsui or Moyer? I call it how i see it and I see tough transitions all the time coming from the NL to the AL. Its rare to see numbers improve or evcen stay the same but not vice versa.

        • http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=43434432275 Ace

          Do the other 7 hitters besides the pitcher magically hit fastballs better in AL?

          • Colombo

            I think its a matter of league pitching style. The NL is traditionally known as a breaking ball league, pitchers building off a get me over fastball to set up off speed pitches. The AL is traditionally a fastball league…high heat, lots of movement, cutters, splitters, etc.

            Straight fastballs get rocked more in the AL than in the NL because catchers call it more and pitchers throw it more.

            • ryan

              More in depth, probably a better overall argument. Good point.

          • ryan

            lol wow….yes it’s magic…completely missed the point
            1st off it’s 8 hitters after taking the pitcher out of the equation so figure that one out math whiz.

  • Christian Parker

    It’s not acceptable for a contending team to go into the season with four good starters and hold a contest for the fifth spot.

    hey Pete, remember me?

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      It’s not acceptable for a contending team to go into the season with four good starters and hold a contest for the fifth spot.

      The 2008 Phillies, 2007 Red Sox, 2006 Cardinals, 2005 White Sox, 2004 Red Sox, 2003 Marlins, 2002 Angels, and 2001 Diamondbacks say hello.

      • steve (different one)

        i HATE when people say things like “a championship team can’t have player X at position Y”

        then you go back and look at all the shitty players that have started for Championship teams over the years.

  • Russell NY

    “Wang has a longer track record of success, but Lester was amazing last year at age 24 and there isn’t any reason to think he’ll have a drop-off.”

    Except for the increase in major league innings from 63 to 210. Oh, and his 4.57 and 4.76 ERA’s the past two seasons.

  • Steve S

    My only concern with this whole thing is that this uncertainty in the fifth spot could have an effect on Joba. If the fifth spot turns into a black hole then does Girardi stretch him out a little more than he should? Pete Abe keeps on talking about the innings from the starters, if 1-4 stay healthy then its not an issue even if two guys have an innings cap. And this is completely distinguishable from last year. Last year you were in effect asking two of Hughes/Kennedy/Joba to be front end starters in what amounted to their first full professional seasons. This year you know you have at least one anchor in Sabathia and presuming a healthy Cheng Ming Wang, thats as solid as it gets in the regular season.

    I will say one thing, in name Burnett will be the number three but he is the number 4 in terms of results on the field behind Joba. I know everyone wants to support the signing and I hope he stays healthy, but in reality his stuff may be equal to Joba’s but his results have never even been close and thats only in comparison to Joba’s 10-11 starts last year but I think we all saw whats there. And Burnett is not as good as Dice-K, I understand Dice K gives you a lot of concern but the guy is younger, he has always stayed healthy and he misses a lot of bats. We can all talk about his high walks but he may be an abberration like Wang is with his effectiveness but extraordinarily low strikeout rate in front of a below average defense.

    • ryan

      wang pitches to contact….Dice-k pitches to miss bats
      most singerballers have low K rates.

      • Steve S

        I understand that but its pretty well established that Wang has alarmingly low strikeout rates but maintains a certain level of success. Even guys like Lowe and Webb who are traditionally sinker ball guys miss more bats than Wang, but Wang some how has equivalent or greater results as any of these so called pitch to contact guys.

    • Ryan S.

      One thing that makes me feel better about Joba was what the Baseball Prospectus guest blogger, Will Carroll, talked about on LoHud. He said Joba could “safely” pitch 170 innings as a starter. Now Joba’s inning count is reportedly in the 150 range – so even if Girardi gives Joba an extra start or two more than we anticipate during the season and Joba ends up with, say 162 innings pitched overall, there shouldn’t be much reason for concern.

      Here’s the link to that article: http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/01/13/special-guest-pinch-hitter-will-carroll-of-baseball-prospectus/

      Definitely my 2nd favorite guest blog on LoHud was this guy’s.

    • steve (different one)

      I hope he stays healthy, but in reality his stuff may be equal to Joba’s but his results have never even been close

      i think you are WAAAAAY underestimating the value of a 111 ERA+

      Burnett, when healthy, absolutely gives excellent results. they may not line up with his stuff, but he has still gotten #2 starter results.

      for reference, Burnett’s career 111 ERA+ is currently 33rd on the active list. if we take out the relievers, it’s 25th. if we take out Mussina, Maddux, Schilling, and Glavine, it’s 21st.

      this list doesn’t capture young guys like Lincecum, Lester, Garza, etc., but it does include guys like Zito and Carpenter, who Burnett seems VERY likely to outperform in 2009.

      in other words, i’m comfortable calling Burnett one of the 30 best starters in the majors.

      that’s not a #4 starter.

      you are making it sound like Burnett underperforms his “stuff” as if he were Oliver Perez. he’s not.

      he’s a guy with #1 stuff that pitches like a #2.

      • Steve S

        Im not saying he doesnt have the talent of a number two starter or his numbers last season didnt justify number two starter status. But I think given the Yankees rotation, he would fall in the number 4 role behind CC, Wang and Joba.

        I know what the expectations are with Burnett and I know what he did in the 2nd half last year but call me a skeptic, the guy has never consistently stayed healthy and the only times he has are usually when a contract is on the line. I hope it was all just a coincidence but all this talk of him “turning the corner”, he is 32 years old, absent some kind of PED, most guys dont turn the corner. And I understand the value of a 111 ERA+, but the fact remains it isnt as valuable when you are only pitching 130-160 innings and last year when he actually managed to stay healthy, he was virtually a little bit above league average, the strikeouts are impressive but guess what, people are calling out Matsuzaka and his baserunners/whip, guess what AJ had an almost identical whip last year. Which I know could support the argument that Mastuzaka is in for a down year but in the end if AJ puts up the same numbers as last year, which would be fantastic, and everyone else stays healthy, he is the fourth best starter on that team.

        • steve (different one)

          But I think given the Yankees rotation, he would fall in the number 4 role behind CC, Wang and Joba.

          ok, but who cares?

          if the Yankees had CC, Johan, Webb, and Lackey, Lackey would be in the “number 4 role”.

          what does that mean? absolutely nothing.

          until the playoffs, the roles 1-4 are basically identical.

          let’s not confuse the ROLE of a #4 starter with the term “#4 starter” when used as a measure of QUALITY. the latter has much more significance than the former.

          • steve (different one)

            crap. close tags.

          • Steve S

            Like I said not a big deal but this optimism over Burnett I feel should be tempered. I see comparisons with Dice-K and John Lester, Im not overly impressed with Dice K but John Lester is a stud at this point, he is arguably the best pitcher on that team. Like you said his 111 ERA+ is impressive but his ability to stay healthy takes away a lot of the shine.

  • Bo

    Comparing ourselves to the team that finished 2nd is great and all but the first place team has much better SP depth.

    We will regret not trading Ian Kennedy when he had high value. The kid is a dog.

    • Colombo

      The kid is in his low-20’s and still learning…give him a chance…

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      We will regret not trading Ian Kennedy when he had high value. The kid is a dog.

      WHY THE FUCK IS MY BURRITO TAKING THIS LONG TO COOK IN THIS MICROWAVE!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

  • David

    When people make these comparisons they assume the young guys are static. They aren’t. I’d bet my house that Hughes and Kennedy are better than they were. Same for Buckholtz. The Yankees have a ton of young arms. The idiots in the media like the Boston signings because they are names they know. But Penny and Smoltz at this point are not any better than Hughes, Aceves and the other young arms we throw out there.

  • The Evil Empire

    Jake Peavy
    Ben Sheets
    IF we were able to trade for Peavy or even sign sheets who would you prefer?

    Peavy for me

    • The Evil Empire

      Also, did you guys hear that the yankees talked to Smoltz before he signed, and so did the Dodgers.

    • Mike Pop

      I say neither because it is just a stupid idea.

  • http://twitter.com/OldRanger Old Ranger

    All this rhetoric of things that might happen i.e.,injuries to AJ, Joba, CMW and Phil is not being very realistic. Every team has injuries through out the year, we can’t carry 8 starters…just because! The teams that have pitchers that can pitch out of the pen and be a spot starter are the ones that get away with injuries easier.
    So Yankees pitchers that can go from BP to spot starter;
    Giese, Coke?, Aceves, IPK and Wright. Did I miss someone?
    Plain A;
    CC-200 innings, CMW-200, AJ-180/200, Joba-150+, Phil-180, Aceves-200, with those guys (baring injuries) we have 1125+ of a needed (@6+ innings per game) 1000+/-. Joba/Phil will be passed over (days off etc.) so, they will be ok, even for the PO/WS. Phil/Aceves will pick up any innings needed to cover for injuries/rest etc, for a start or two. We have the others that can make spot starts ready and waiting.
    Plain B; Cry and call Cashman all the names in the book because, he couldn’t/wouldn’t sign; Koufax, Whitey, Guidry etc. One can only do so much, only worry about things you can change, and live with those one can’t.

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