Filling the starting void with a familiar face
ByBy most accounts, the Yankees could use a back-end starter who can eat innings in 2009. While they have CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett and Ching-Ming Wang up front, having two of Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes, Al Aceves, Ian Kenned, Phil Coke, Chase Wright and any other youngster the Yanks trot out there fill up 70 starts while pitching the Yanks toward a playoff berth may be a tall order.
To that end, there’s a certainly a reason to bring Andy Pettitte back into the fold this year, but that soap opera has seemingly reached a stalemate. Pettitte doesn’t want to take a $6-million pay cut, and the Yanks don’t want to sign a pitcher turning 37-year-old in June and coming off his worst season of his career to a lofty contract. I don’t blame them.
In the meantime, the Yanks have alternatives. Derek Lowe remains unsigned. He, however, wants a few years and $15 million per before affixing his John Hancock to a contract. Ben Sheets is still unsigned as well, but teams have concerns about his health.
There is another pitcher out there, also 37 and coming off his worst season. As John Garica notes, Pedro Martinez could be an intriguing option for the Yanks. It’s not as outlandish as it sounds.
Last season was not one of Pedro’s finest. He was coming off of major arm surgery and got lit up. He threw 109 innings in the NL and gave up 127 hits, 19 of which were home runs. He walked 44 and struck out 87, his worst K/BB ratio since 1993. Over his final 40 innings of 2008, opponents hit .321/.379/.500 off of the former Cy Younger winner (while striking out 38 times). No matter how you slice or dice it, those are ugly numbers.
So Pedro is looking to rebound in 2008. Maybe he’s the guy the Yankees need in the back end. He could be their John Smoltz, a low-risk, high-reward type of signing. Considering that the only Pedro rumors this off-season were either his own desire to return to New York and some quickly quashed Marlins rumors, I would think that the Yanks could swoop in and sign Pedro for a low base salary with incentives.
It might not be the answer to the innings gap, but the Yanks don’t have much — other than money — to lose. Pedro could make some starts, and if he’s healthy, he’ll fill that 4/5 whole in the rotation. If not, the Yanks seem ready to rely on the kids anyway. And, hey, then maybe we could all go back to wearing these shirts again. Crazier things have happened.
difference between pedro and smoltz was that smoltz was still good before he got hurt. pedro is a 5 inning pitcher at best these days and would be too taxing on a bullpen that’s gonna be looking out already for joba. pedro is done, move on.
This is more like a low risk, low reward move. You really didn’t just advocate bringing in Pedro did you???
I haven’t seen him pitch in a while, but hasn’t Pedro been reduced to basically throwing junk now? How’s that gonna work in the AL East? I figure he’s cooked.
“How’s that gonna work in the AL East?”
Ask Mike Mussina.
Mussina’s control is far superior to Pedro’s, walks are how you get destroyed as a junkballer.
Pedro’s BB/9 has always been low. Moose’s might have been a bit lower, but Pedro’s is by no means high. He displayed poor control in 2008, yes. Just remember, though, how Moose got hammers in 07 before bouncing back in 08.
I wouldn’t rely on Pedro. A guy who can’t go more the 5 in the NL will get slaughtered in the AL. Also, why even bother with a guy who is old and coming off major major shoulder surgery. Just doesn’t add up. I would rather spend a little more for the injured Ben Sheets
As has been said many times, 2008 Mike Mussina was highly rare and unlikely. Moose basically figured out, on the fly, how to transition from being a power pitcher to being a deceptive El Duque kind of pitcher. Had Pedro already shown that he can or has done that (survive without his gas), I’d be inclined to take the shot. He hasn’t.
We shouldn’t gamble on old pitchers “pulling a Moose”, because the overwhelming majority of old pitchers are unable/unwilling to “pull a Moose”.
In a related story, Sarah Palin is getting itchy trigger finger from reading this post about all these mooses.
True but Moose’s season was a complete aberration.
There’s not that much reason to believe that Pedro will eat innings, or be all that effective… I’d rather give it to the kids
I’m still hoping for a Ben Sheets/Phil Hughes if Sheets goes down combo.
I agree. I say offer that 10 million to Sheets. Trade Nady for a prospect if needed to slash a bit off the payroll. Girardi has already said- 20 starts from Sheets is better then 32 starts from most. Plus, when Sheets/Burnett get banged up and need time off, you have plenty of kids to step in. Takes all the pressure off of Hughes/Kennedy because they will not be so depended on.
Can Pedro learn to pitch like Jamie Moyer?
Big Bank Hank, is that you?
No no no…younger pitchers!!! Please sign Sheets already!
As we discussed on this site weeks ago, teams are shying away from Sheets because of his shoulder. It’s tough to justify giving big money to a guy with potential shoulder issues. See Schmidt, Jason.
as times drags on, sheets could be willing to go for a low base-pay, high-incentives deal…?
if he isn’t signed 3 weeks from now, and the Yanks offer $7M (base) + another $6M (incentives), maybe he’d bite on it…
although, i do see the value in Pettitte’s 200 IP/year @ league average ERA…i’d be happy either way.
Who said anything about big money? No one has shown interest in the guy. Do what the Red Sox have been doing. Offer a reasonable, somewhat low one year offer with some incentives and club options.
Maybe I’m crazy, but if we gave Sheets 2 years and he pitches around 135 innings each season with the youngsters filling in when needed, isn’t that still a good signing?
The guy has dominant ace type stuff when he is healthy and he would be our fifth starter.
If he is healthy in September-October it would be a steal.
this way when pedro strikes someone out we can all yell who’s your dadddyyyyy
I would love this, I have always been a Pedro fan, even in Boston. While he may not be the workhorse that Andy would be, he has huge upside and still allows for the kids to pitch every once in a while. As long as it is a one year deal for less than $8 million I would fully support this move.
I do not think the goal is low-risk, high-reward. I would say that Hughes fills that need. I think the goal here is insurance–to have someone to pitch innings in the fifth spot, with a league average ERA, and not block any prospects. I don’t see Pedro meeting those requirements at all.
Aside from Pettitte, I don’t see any remaining free agents that will fill that objective. The Yankees will need to decide if they want the innings or the flexibility, because I don’t think they can get both.
The Yankees looked into Sheets. There has to be something very frightening in his health file.
Paul Byrd is one name, but I wouldn’t expect a 100 era+ from him.
The Yankees looked into Sheets. There has to be something very frightening in his health file.
I hear you man. What I don’t get is why Sheets and his agent would decline arbitration. They obviously know his health status and medical reports better than anyone. If the reports are that bad wouldn’t he just take the guaranteed $15 million he would’ve gotten from arbitration instead of taking the risk? He did throw 198 innings last year. 120-150 is all we need.
Or maybe I’m just infatuated with that sick curve ball he has.
The thing is the Yanks are the 1 team that can afford to take a chance on Sheets on a 1 year incentive laden contract with an option. Besides being able to afford it financially, the Yanks also have the back ups available in case he flops(Hughes/Aceves/Kennedy/Coke) We’re talking about him being a 4th/5th starter. If they had too, the Yanks could also limit his innings per start (say 6) if there was concern about him breaking down. he’s clearly the best pitcher out there. If he even gives them 20 decent starts, it’s well worth.
I completely agree with you. If he knew he was hurt and that no one would touch him, he would’ve taken arbitration in an instant. Give him a few million guaranteed with incentives and club options and call it a day.
Would be nice for the Yankees to go after some sort of low risk veteran to give them a chance in the rotation. Someone besides jason johnson. Are there any other vets out there who may take a similar deal?
His name was Brad Penny.
Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon are the only two guys I see worth offering any incentive laden deal.
Penny is going to bomb I think. And I wouldn’t touch big fat Bartolo Colon. Garcia is decent, but why not just use the minor league guys who are cheaper and have the same upside at this point?
He could bomb. Sure. Or he could throw 160 innings and pitch a 4.50 ERA out of the 5 spot … all on a 1 year deal.
no love for butthole cologne?
His name is Robert Paulson. His name is Robert Paulson. His name is Robert Paulson.
Someone mentioned Paul Byrd. He’s a crafty veteran who has been pretty much injury free. Another pither available who has pitched almost 200 innings the last 2 seasons is Braden Looper. Another veteran, not great numbers, but is durable. With the Yanks offense, his numbers could be better.
Good call on Looper. I missed him because of the 89 era+ in 2007.
I also missed on Odalis Perez, who might be a plan C.
I think given the opportunity, Phil Hughes could pitch Ben Sheets-like (Bill James’ projections certainly agree). I really feel the Yankees are looking for a guy for April, while Hughes builds up a little confidence in the AAA rotation, waiting for the first injury.
Odalis Perez should be somewhere below Plan Z.
didn’t we establish “crafty veteran = not very good anymore” already? paul byrd? meh
I would love to see the kids battle for the 5th spot in the rotation but somethin’ tells me pettitte will be in pinstripes this yr.
Something tells me even with Pettitte in pinstripes, you’ll still see most of the kids in the Bronx at some point.
5th starter debate pros and cons:
I think that joba is set in the rotation, so we are looking for an innings eater who has the ability to pitch in the AL, and will accept an affordable short term contract.
Garland 2-year 5 million per with option= sinkerballer who is AL tested and consistant, but has posted some terrible ERAs recently
Freddy Garcia 2-year 4 million per with option= hes a horse who has pitched in the AL and was a solid #2 before, hasnt been the same after the injury but would be bada~s with a good offence.
Pettitte= we all know the drama there
Pedro= to many question marks there, might be worth the risk but we need consistancy and not risk.
i still think Garland is going to get 3 years. It just wont be at the AAS that we all thought he’d get. His agent will have to convince him to take a 1-year flyer with any ball club, but coming off a 1.51 WHIP season …. Garland would do better to take guaranteed years.
Freddy Garcia 2-year 4 million per with option
I have no idea what it would take to sign Garcia, but that has to be worth a look. Would he be amenable to an incentive laden deal? Low base, w/ significant bonuses for 100, 50 and 200 IP?
Worth kicking the tires, no?
joba is set in the rotation
do not forget that he cannot give us 200 IP, we’ll need somebody to cover about 50 IP for him (assuming that he makes it though the season unscathed).
really we have 3.5 SPs right now
CC, AJ, Wang and Joba.
With all due respect — because I enjoy the work you do at RAB– Pedro to the Yanks has to be the worst idea of the off-season.
There are just some guys who will never outlive their hateful Boston pasts. Martinez is a guy who used Jeter as target practice when he had the heater and practically ended the careers of both Jeter and Soriano in successive ABs. This is a nasty guy– I want no part of him and I’ll bet many Yankee players and fans agree. What next– offer a three year deal to Varitek?
Martinez is not a nasty guy. I don’t want to read into what you are writing, but another hated ex-Red Sock with a reputation gave noted Yankee fan Suzyn Waldman an orgasm.
A reason not to sign Martinez: he’s cooked.
A non-reason: he is a highly-competitive pitcher.
Ah, I think it’s pretty overrated. Heck Clemens was utterly despised at a point in time by NYers, but that worked out pretty well didn’t it? (pre PED)
You mean that Pedro ALMOST or COULD HAVE ended the careers of both Jeter and Soriano in successive ABs.
With all due respect — because I enjoy the work you do at RAB– Pedro to the Yanks has to be the worst idea of the off-season.
No, sign and then trade Jason Varitek to “keep the Sox from getting a first rounder” was the worst idea of the offseason.
Hell yeah. The third best move we could have all offseason is the Red Sox bringing Varitek back.
this makes no sense. not signing someone because of the team they played for previously or that they were “hated” while on a diff team is the second worst idea of the offseason after the varitek keep away sans first rounder.
Yeah, I can think of lots of reasons why I wouldn’t sign Pedro, but the “He’s a former Red Sock!!!1!!!11!!” isn’t one of them. I don’t give a crap where he pitched before. All I care about is what he can do for me in 2009 and beyond.
Ditto Manny Ramirez; the Red Sox history shouldn’t be a deterrent. I’m not interested in being petty, only in building great teams that win championships.
While I personally don’t believe that Pedro has anything left in the tank (and is thus, not the answer), I DO believe that Cash has to do something rather quickly to fill our rather alarming pitching voids.
As previously mentioned in a prior post, 2/5th’s of our starting rotation are tremendous question marks (i.e. Joba/Hughes, and co.). I feel great about our 3 horses in the front, however, as we all know, it takes around 7-8 starting pitchers to get through an entire season.
In terms of our bullpen, does anyone really feel good about Veras, Bruney, and Ramirez? While I am more than comfortable with Mo and Marte, the other 3 guys are also huge question marks. Bruney was out for pretty much the entire season last year, but considering his awful 2007 campaign, why should anyone be confident that he will rebound from his historically shaky command. And Ramirez??? Gimme a break, all the guy does is throw change-ups, and once the league realized that, he got pounded. Veras was a nice story last year, but whose to say he wont resort back to his very ineffective 2007 numbers?
The only point I’m trying to make is that the Yankees desperately need quality pitching depth. Sure, they went out and signed a couple of big pitchers this season, but in reality, all they did was replace 2 big pitchers from last year who are no longer with the team (Moose and Pettite). So in essence, we’re right back to where we started - no pitching depth.
With the fast and furious moves that the Red Sox have been making (can someone please explain to me how Cashman allowed Boston to get BOTH Smoltz and Ianto - haha, not sure how to spell the Japenese guys name), the Sox now have the pitching advantage going into 2009. While our rotations are pretty similar, our bullpens aren’t even close (I’m including Smoltz as a reliever here).
Cashman needs to wake up from his CC/AJ/Tex hangover and add some quality depth into this team. We have absolutely no bench and our pitching is paper thin. IMO, we need to add either Lowe/Sheets/or Pettite to the starting 5 and add atleast one more reliever to the pen.
Now I realize that some are going to say, “But Cash wants to reduce the payroll this year.” but my response is, “why?” The Yankees are moving into a cash cow New Stadium and are raping their patrons with increased ticket prices. In short, the Yankees are far and away the most profitable franchise in all of sports. So with this seemingly endless revenue coming in, why are the Yankees looking to cut payroll? Perhaps its too appease the Main Stream Media and RSN who collectively cry “foul” everytime the Yankees make a signing. To me, this is ridiculous. If the Yankees have the money, they should spend it towards putting the best product on the field. While they have made great strides this offseason towards that end, it is obvious that glaring holes remain. Instead of sitting back and watching the best (2008) teams in our Division get better, Cashman needs to grow a pair of balls and tighten up our loose ends. And trading Swisher for Cameron is NOT what I’m talking about. If true, that trade couldnt be stupider.
p.s. Who wants to make a bet that Young ends up with Boston?
Who wants to make a bet that Young ends up with Boston?
i do.
Boston are a smart team and trading for Young would be monumentally stupid.
Why would that be monumentally stupid? He’s a tremendous upgrade over that shleprock they got playing over there now and would add great length to their lineup?
because Young is owed $80M over the next 5 years, he is poor defensively despite his Gold Glove, and his contract spans his age 32-37 seasons.
also, reading this i assume you mean Lugo? and not Lowrie?
you do realize that teams have these things called “farm systems”…and that from their “farm system” they are allowed to call up “players” that are sometimes able to provide comparable performance for a fraction of the price, right?
reading your posts, i am not sure you do.
Lowrie: .258/.339/.400 in 2008, 25 years old in 2009, $400K
Young: .284/.339/.402 in 2008, 32 years old in 2009, $16M
And, considering that his splits are .322/.369/.480/.850 at home and .279/.323/.404/.728 on the road, it’s probably safe to say that he’s a creation of the Arlington launching pad.
Young may be better than Julio Lugo, but he’s also easily one of the most overrated/overpaid players in baseball.
Young is not owed 80 mill over the next 5 I’m positvie it’s around 63 ish not that I’m saying he will be with Boston bc I don’t think he will but I’m just correcting your numbers that are way off
the timing of the payments may be a little off, but he was given a 5 year $80M extension that starts in 2009.
it’s possible they have paid him some of that money already, i suppose.
what does Cot’s say? i can’t get into Cots from work.
MLBTR’s Young reports (top of the site) say he’s owed 63M over the next 5 years. His age 32-37 seasons.
Pass. (as would Theo).
Young to Boston? … he was unhappy and asked to be traded in the first place because he does not want to change position. Do you really think they are going to uproot Pedroia?
Your Bosotn complex is getting the best of you bro. Saito although looks like a nice cheap pickup I’d say our pen is not a weakness so taking a chance on an injured pitcher is not really where we have to be right now.
Albalandejo is going to be a stud - just you watch.