Open Thread: Getting what you pay for
By
Earlier today it was announced that the Diamondbacks and free agent righty Jon Garland agreed to a one year deal guaranteeing him $8.5M, with a mutual option for a second year thrown in for good measure. Let’s take a quick look at how Garland compares to another recently signed free agent pitcher.
Jon Garland
2008: 196.2 IP, 1.51 WHIP, 4.76 FIP, 4.12 K/9, 2.70 BB/9, 1.05 HR/9, 1.79 GB/FB, +1.9 WAR
Last Three Years (avg): 205.1 IP, 1.40 WHIP, 4.49 FIP, 4.38 K/9, 2.29 BB/9, 0.99 HR/9, 1.23 GB/FB, +3.2 WAR
Andy Pettitte
2008: 204 IP, 1.41 WHIP, 3.71 FIP, 6.97 K/9, 2.43 BB/9, 0.84 HR/9, 1.80 GB/FB, +4.4 WAR
Last Three Years (avg): 211.1 IP, 1.43 WHIP, 3.90 FIP, 6.77 K/9, 2.75 BB/9, 0.88 HR/9, 1.65 GB/FB, +4.1 WAR
Holy schnikees. Pettitte’s got him beat in every category except WHIP and walk rate over the last three years, and even those are tiny differences. Of course, there is the little matter of Garland being seven years younger than Pettitte, but age isn’t much of an issue when talking about a pair of one year deals. Sure, the chance of Pettitte regressing is better than the lack of Garland regressing, but a full win regression? Not bloody likely.
So somehow, someway Jon Garland managed to get more guaranteed money than Andy Pettitte. I thought the Yankees were the ones that always overpaid?
(Oh, and as BtB points out, the D-Backs could have had Randy Johnson, who was worth nearly two more wins than Garland in ’08, for roughly the same amount of money. Ouch).
Here’s your Open Thread for the evening. The Rangers are in Pittsburgh while the Knicks and Nets are each in action at home. Also, I’m helping Dave out over at Blueseat Blogs, so make sure you check it out. You know what to do, just be nice.
366 Comments»
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The Mason Williams Watch
I saw Joba last night at Sacred Heart. It was kind of cool.
Strangley and total coincidence-ly, I sat three rows behind the press row–where PeteAbe was, right in front of me.
Did you say anything to him?
No and no.
I saw PeteAbe a couple weeks ago at the Todd Drew memorial and spoke to him then.
Sitting behind PeteAbe, did you actually see Joba, or just hear him and assume he was there?
I was three rows up in the bleachers, so yes, I did see him =P
Did anyone else notice the $1.5 million player option buyout? So if he declines the option next year he still gets a mill five.
Is that normal?
Yes, and if he’s the one who decides to opt out of the mutual option, then he pays the D-Backs 1.5 mil.
http://tinyurl.com/c9ox65
Ummm…
It’s South Dakota, what would you expect?
My thoughts exactly. Rural areas are a different set of rules than us city/suburban types have. The nearest Police station is often 50 miles away, so citizens have to defend themselves. Plus, lots of the locals are hunters. That looks like a hunting rifle to me, most states require handguns to be holstered and/or concealed.
….
Hoshit.
Cubs, Padres Likely To Restart Jake Peavy Talks
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....s-lik.html
If the Cubbies land Jake Peavy, I’m going with an old timey Yanks-Cubs WS this year. That rotation of theirs (Zambrano-Peavy-Harden-Dempster-Lilly) will be downright scary, Marmol’s a stud and Vizcaino should have a bounce back year. Plus, they’re a bit less susceptible to Righties with Bradley in the fold.
That will also make the 2 pre-Opening Day games they play against the Yanks even more interesting to me.
If the Cubs make it to the world series my head might explode.
If anyone will ever do it, Sweet Lou will. In his swaggering, maddening, bluster filled ‘seat of his pants’ way. It will defy logic, and leave even the most veteran baseball sages scratching their heads. It has to be that way, just like the Red Sox in 04.
Nah they just picked up Heilman, he will blow Game 7 of the NLCS for them, if he doesnt blow a NLDS game first.
Heilman gets flipped in the Peavy deal.
So they trade Pie for Olson for Heilman for Peavy. That seems like an awful lot of dealing just to get the player you want.
Not really. They were short on pitching to make the Peavy deal, now they have enough to build a deal around Josh Vitters, who the Padres will probably stick in a corner OF spot eventually.
What doesn’t make sense to me is that the Pads were interested in Olson. Why did they trade him if they were going to make a deal forr Peavy?
i’m with you. i don’t get it.
yeah that is a bit strange, but they could be just as interested in Heilmann
God, Jon Heyman is such a moron. He just used the adjectives “tremendous”, “excellent” and “great” to describe Orlando Cabrera, Jon Garland and Orlando Hudson, respectively. Yeesh. Oh, and he also used “terrific” to describe Garret Anderson as a hitter; yeah, the Anderson who has posted just one season with a wOBP in excess of .340 (2007: .347) during the 2004-2008 seasons.
I STILL do not get why so many Mets fans are so high on Orlando Hudson. Luis Castillo is definitely better.
Luis Castillo is their Melky Cabrera, only locked into a 4 year contract extension with an ownership that hates to eat bad deals.
But Luis Castillo is at least an average or so hitter and fielder. Melky…not so much.
He’s more like their Hideki Matsui. Castillo used to be good at his position, but he had surgery on both his knees and no longer can play a full season on the field. A large part of his offense came from his ability to steal bases, which he can’t do anymore due to his bad knees.
Mets fans would love to trade him and sign, say, Orlando Hudson the same way a lot of Yankee fans would like to trade Matsui and sign Dunn.
At least Matsui’s contract is up after this season.
Luis Castillo is definitely NOT better than Orlando Hudson.
i’m shocked anyone would try to say otherwise.
I’m going to have to second this. I don’t know what Matt is thinking. Dude is loco!!!
Castillo: .292/.367/.355/.722, .322 wOBA
Hudson: .305/.346/.443/.770, .339 wOBA
They’re just about even in hitting, a slight edge to Hudson due to some power, but Castillo is almost two runs better than him in terms of UZR/150 (3.9-2.0) at 2B.
Castillo’s lack of power kind of hurts him but he’s got better plate discipline and patience and is a better fielder as well. If I’m the Mets, I take the dude I’ve already got instead of having to do a bunch of shuffling for essentially the exact same player.
They did make a big mistake though. Giving 4 years to Castillo when Hudson was going to hit the market. I don’t care for Castillo at all but these are just opinions.
Castillo: .292/.367/.355/.722, .322 wOBA
Hudson: .305/.346/.443/.770, .339 wOBA
Where did you get these numbers?
I STILL do not get why so many Mets fans are so high on Orlando Hudson. Luis Castillo is definitely better.
That’s a joke, right?
Luis Castillo just put up a .315 wOBA. He was one of the worst regulars in the league last year.
Hudson, by comparison, put up a .358, and has had wOBA’s north of .330 (league average) for three straight years. Castillo hasn’t been north of league average since 2005. Oh, and he’s two full years older.
I’ve never advocated for adding Hudson to the Yankees, but that’s because we actually have a good second baseman in Cano. The Mets have a black hole at 2B if they’re planning on trotting Castillo out there every day.
Alright alright, I back off that statement. My bad. I’ll call my Mets fan friends and apologize. Then mock them about their shitty rotation.
Heh, Tim Redding and Walkiver Perez.
I thought that statement sounded weird.
Let’s face it. If andy put himself on the market he would have made d lowe money.
I thought the Yankees were the ones that always overpaid?
Let’s not go crazy here Mike. Overpaying Garland by $1 or $2 million for 1 year is a tad different than giving AJ Burnett 5 years or overbidding the next team $60 million for CC Sabathia.
Yankees did not overbid for AJ. The Braves were right there with us. We went up a bit. CC is a different story because we needed a guy like that and he was rumored to be interested in Cali. Yanks did what they had to do to improve the team. Also they could of had the Big Unit for probably cheaper since he loves playing in Zona.
They couldve offered CC $125 million first. You dont just offer $160 off the bat. Thats not what I consider, doing what you have to do to improve the team.
Their initial bid was for $140M.
That is right. I stand corrected on that. However it is still $40 million higher than anyone else was offering and they should have told him to take it or leave it. It is clear now that no team would have been willing to spend that much $ this offseason.
Well since everything in your first statement was wrong, you stand corrected on your whole statement.
5 years for AJ Burnett is absolutely insane when Ben Sheets could be had for 3. There is no way anyone justifies the Burnett signing to me. We gave him too many years.
Why was another team trying to rebuild it’s rotation willing to give him 5 years also? I think the Jays were willing to go 5 on him too but just less money. Why hasn’t Sheets gotten a “real” offer yet? There is obviously something wrong there. If Sheets finished the season healhty, I would agree that if we could of had him for 3 it would have been the better decision. But if he did finish it healthy, he would likely have a 5 year deal right now.
As soon as the Braves got to 5 years I wouldve instantly put the 4 year offer on the table and told him to take it or leave it. His nut-job wife who wont fly and he has to cater to would probably have made him taken the deal to stay in NY anyway. I dont understand why any team would give Burnett 5 years.
As far as comparing Burnetts health to Sheets. Just look at the histories. Yes, Sheets finished with an injury last year. But he has never had surgery and has had a better career than Burnett. If someone wanted to sign Sheets for 5 years I’d say they were crazy too. But if I had to choose between Sheets for 3 or Burnett for 5, at the time of the Burnett signing, I would have gone with Sheets.
What makes you think Sheets would do so much better than AJ in the AL East though?? This is something I have never understood on here. He has a 3.72 career ERA in the NL and AJ has a 3.81 with 3 years in the AL East. What makes you think Sheets won’t put up a 3.8 ERA in our division.
Also for fun:
IP for AJ over last 5 years
2004-120
2005-209
2006-135.7
2007-165.7
2008-221.3
total-852.1
Sheets
2004-237
2005-156.7
2006-106
2007-141.3
2008-198.3
total-839.3
Also isn’t it a good thing that Burnett has already had tommy john as opposed to Sheets not having it?
You love this take it or leave argument.
The general outcome of this is type of negotiation is a ‘leave it’ decision.
Another problem is IF Sheets finished healthy, he definitely would get more than 3 years considering the way he pitched this year.
But if I had to choose between Sheets for 3 or Burnett for 5, at the time of the Burnett signing, I would have gone with Sheets.
so would have everyone here.
however, SINCE that time, it’s become blatantly obvious that there is something in Sheets’ medicals that has scared off EVERYONE.
i honestly don’t even see the point of saying “i’d have given Sheets a 3 year deal” when NO ONE in baseball is going to do that.
it’s a pointless argument.
Also isn’t it a good thing that Burnett has already had tommy john as opposed to Sheets not having it?
Haha. NO. If you’re going to have Tommy John there has to be a reason to have it. Sheets hasn’t had a reason. He had some shoulder tendinitis in 2005 due to a back problem and also has suffered an innear ear infection and a strained groin.
If you’re going to have Tommy John there has to be a reason to have it.
??
you are missing the point completely.
the point is that most pitchers don’t have a second TJS and they often come back stronger from the surgery.
Burnett is now 5 years removed from the surgery.
i have a LOT of confidence in the strength of his elbow.
Sheets, on the other hand, ended the season with a tear near his elbow.
there is a chance (not saying he will) he will need TJS sometime in the next few years.
Burnett’s elbow is probably a much better bet going forward than Sheets’.
Ya but that means there is a chance he could have an injury that would force him to get Tommy John.
That Ace, is not good. Way to only nitpick from my post and you were still wrong when you did it.
Where’d he go?
Actually, I believe the chances of having TJ surgery are about the same whether you’ve already had it or not. There are a number of examples of pitchers who’ve had it twice or more.
Here’s an article about pitchers going under the knife multiple times:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports.....john_N.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.....#Frequency
Look at all the players on wikipedia there. There are many more who have only had it once than more than once. The chances are not almost the same in my opinion. It’s not even close.
What percentage of pitchers ever have TJ surgery? 5%? 10%?
If 10% of pitchers have the surgery once, then you would expect 10% of those that had it once to have it again. There are 120 players on that list, and 11 on multiple times – or about a 10% injury rate.
The other thing to consider is that the chances of returning after the 1st TJ surgery is 85% or better. Success of the second surgery is much less likely.
They had to tell him, listen up big guy, you are going to be a Yankee.
“Either your signature, or your brains will be on that contract”
Haha.
I’ll make you an offer you cant refuse.
“Either your signature, or your brains will be on that contract”
You have 24 hours to sign the contract. And to show you that we’re serious… you have 12 hours to sign the contract.
Haha. I like that one.
Patel? F$#@ YOU.
F$#%@ Shiva handed this guy a million dollars, told him SIGN THE DEAL!, he wouldn’t sign. And the god Vishnu too entered the bar– F#$% YOU, JOHN. You know your business, I know mine. Your business is being an a$#@ole. I find out whose f$#@# cousin you are, I’m gonna go to him and figure out a way to have your ass–F#$@ YOU. I’m waitin’ for the new leads.
You don’t know that at the time. There’s a theory in auctions that if you come in early with a high bid, you scare off the marginal buyers and actually suppress the price. If things had dragged on with CC, we could have been locked in a bidding war where multiple sides wind up going far beyond what they originally planned to spend. It happens all the time in auctions, and could have happened here.
By the Yanks coming out so far ahead of everyone else, other GMs knew there was no point in getting involved. Tony Reagins of LAA was quoted saying something to that effect.
So its not as crazy as it seems on the surface.
Completely agree. They took everyone else out of the bidding early. If there were 2 or 3 more teams involved the bidding would have kept rising. The Yankees put it out there that they were getting CC no matter what, and the other teams moved on. It was a great strategic move.
I agree. Yankees basically claimed him IMMEDIATELY. This guy was the central figure in a long term strategy, we needed CC and nothing was going to stop us. This was a statement to the whole world. It said we are not fucking around, and you are not going to win – not in the winter, not in the summer, and not in the fall. 27/09
Damn straight we claimed him immediately… he’s the only “80″ in the game.
waist size?
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....-ps3-7348/
“Player Ratings: They’re very accurate, easily the best I’ve seen in a video game. For players age 24 and younger you get present and future grades for their skills (age 25 and up you get just present grades), and everything in the game is based on the 20-80 scouting scale, which is super cool. I haven’t done too much looking, but the only 80 player I’ve seen is this guy.”
And I also love the fact people bitch on why we outbid ourselves to get CC. Yeah we paid like 20 mil more but we added for 2 years. You’re actually paying less per year than the original contract. Just with more years but people see the figure, ignore the years and complain how much the Yankees spend.
It’s a legitimate point to make when someone is comparing the John garland signing to moves the Yanks have made. You don’t see the hypocrisy in that?
It was just a joke really. Just a snarky remark.
Umm, no way.
Way to express yourself. You are very articulate.
I work hard at it. Yeah, I’m a dumbass.
This was supposed to be in response to Pettitte getting a D-Lowe contract. Considering everyone in the world knew the 3/36 offer Pettitte was believed to have had was total BS, there is no way he was getting 4/60.
Completey unrelated to baseball- There is no doubt in my mind that if Lebron James had stuck with football, he could easily be the best player in the NFL. He was an all state receiver in Ohio his sophmore year of highschool. Dudes 6’8″ 250, awesome hands 44 inch vert, he would be unfrickin stoppable, alot like the NBA. He probably stands to make more money in the nba though so I guess it was a good decision.
Completely agree. D-line, safety, linebacker, tight end. He would completely dominate in all of them. Basketball players are definitely the best athletes in the world. If the US cared about soccer, we’d have the best soccer team in the world. Can you imagine if somebody put a soccer ball in KG’s hands at 5 and taught him how to play goalie. A 7 footer with speed and athelticism, he’d be sick.
Shit I didn’t even think of that, he could be a DE too with those dimensions. Make hit hit the weightroom to add some bulk to 290 or so he would kill people there too.
As a Brazillian, I´ve got to say no way in hell would basketball players make for good soccer players. Completly different skillsets. Usually you want agil players with great feet coordination, and there is a point where being too talljust hinders your ability to use the body to protect the ball.
Also, you would need to really love soccer, because we have 180 million people in the cowntry, and 90% plays every day after school, with balls made of socks if they have to.
Remember Akeem was a soccer goalie before he found his riches in basketball. KG would be an absolute sick goalie. Our best athletes don’t play soccer, it’s the 4th or 5th choice. Reggie Bush has probably never kicked a ball in his life. If he had started at 5, he’d be ridiculous. He clearly has the footwork.
He could go down as the best player in the NBA ever. I agree he made the right decision. But there is no doubt in my mind he could of played WR or TE in the pros and been a pro bowl player easy.
Except without “LeBron” on the back of his jersey.
LeBron = He Hate Me
I wonder how he would do in baseball.
Sick fielder, too big of a strikezone though. Imagine that HR robbing catches he could make!
If Michael Jordan couldn’t play baseball, I wouldn’t bet to heavily on Lebron. But on football, there’s actually a commercial of him playing as the Browns. If that were to happen he might jus turn the team around from their bad season.
i think michael jordan couldnt play baseball because he didnt no baseball if he would have spent his life practicing baseball as he did for basketball he would be amazing
I still contend that although baseball may not be the most physically demanding of its athletes, hitting a baseball is the most difficult thing to do in sports.
Of course.
I’ve said this all the time. Good athlete =/= good baseball player.
John Kruk says hello.
Bernie Williams says hello.
Heh.
Word man, in football and basketball size can most definitely make up for lack of talent. Baseball not so much.
But at the same time, good baseball player =/= good athlete. I played ball with some kids who couldn’t do shit athletically off of the diamond.
“good baseball player =/= good athlete”
See: David Wells
if LeBron played hockey he’d dominate. he’d be skating down the ice, hitting the puck with his d*ck.
bam!
bam!
/Chris Rock
SLAP SHOT BIAAAAAATCH
I wonder how he would do in baseball.
Michael Jordan says hello.
.202/.285/.266/.551, 3 HR, 51 RBI, 30 SB (18 CS, 63%)
Melky Cabrera, is that you?
He probably stands to make more money in the nba though so I guess it was a good decision
With the advertising deals (which he would never get as a WR/TE/DE) he’s already made more then he would in the NFL, add he got paid instead of going to college, and his career will probably be longer in the NBA, and bam, much better financially
First time in years I look forward to watching the Knicks play every night, I am finally getting my money’s worth with the NBA League Pass!!!!
Still must say, the Extra Innings package is still by far the best value you can get….
Damn true. Wilson Chandler, David Lee, Chris Duhon, Al Harrington = all good players. And I take back everything mean I ever said about Mike D’Antoni: he’s turned Nate Robinson into a stud and resurrected the long-dead Good Tim Thomas.
When Bron-Bron and Chris Bosh hit this team in 20 more months, the NBA is fucked.
TSJC, how confident are you that we can pull 2 of the cream-of-crop FAs? I keep looking at our payroll and running scenarios over in my head. I don’t see how we can extend Lee and get Bron/Bosh. Am I wrong?
If Curry gets traded, yes we can extend Lee and still get JJ/Wade & Bosh. With Curry still a Knick, it’ll be a tight squeeze.
We’re probably going to deal one of either Lee or Nate , rather than extend them both, for a young player of some other value at some point (like, say, a young PG or something.)
But basically, going into the summer of Bron, here’s who we’ll have under contract:
Gallinari at 3.3M
Chandler at 2.1M
Either Lee or Nate at, say, 6-7M
Whomever we draft in the first round this coming July at like 4-5M
The expiring contracts of Eddy Curry (11.2M) and Jared Jeffries (6.8M)
That’s it. Every other Knicks player expires that summer. So, we could sign one player (like, say LeBron) to a max deal of 15M-18M AAV (or whatever the max contract is at that point) as an outright free agent, and then use the expiring Curry and Jeffries deals to do a sign-and-trade for Bron’s wingman (like Bosh, Wade, Amare, whatever) and have a roster of:
1-2009 draftee? (Brandon Jennings, maybe?)
2-Bron
3-Chandler, Gallinari
4-Lee
5-Bosh
And we’re still like 7-10M under the cap for a third player, plus the one year veteran max, plus all the vets we can sign to the minimum who’d love to come play with Bron and Bosh and win rings.
It’s fiendishly simple.
Mo bless you
How much you think the Knicks throw at Lebron?
Whatever a max contract allows, plus double that amount from Nike for playing in NYC.
Seems like a good strategy.
Jerry Seinfeld will be LeBron’s personal butler.
Look I’m a Knicks fan and bball is my fav sport, but unfortunately LeBron IS NOT coming to NY. I think that was the point of the Browns commercial, he signed with Cleveland a.k.a. HIS HOMETOWN! Joe Johnson & Chris Bosh.
Patience, young padawan.
LeBron wins 5 rings in Cleveland, he’s a hero.
LeBron wins 5 rings in New York City, he’s bigger than the Beatles, Jesus Christ, and Mike Francesa combined.
Nah, lebron has ambitions beyond basketball. He wants to be a global icon like his boy Jay-Z. Unfortunately for cleveland the best place for that is NYC. he’s always wearing yankee hats, and look what happened to the last larger than life athlete who liked wearing yankee hats.
http://cache.daylife.com/image.....G/610x.jpg
Orr and Goddard just dropped their gloves to start the game. Orr got knocked down but it was a good fight…awesome.
Gotta catch up on the comments, but I just had this idea, which is my dream for next year:
A-Rod changes numbers and wears #6
Thoughts?
Funny story that’s semi-related.
In MLB 08, I need a half-season rental to be my DH vs RH (Bobby A wasn’t cutting it–my OF is Pence/Melky/Markakis) so I traded for Gary Sheffield. His number? 6. I love it.
When the Yanks got Kenny Lofton his number was 6 in All-Star Baseball for N64 that year…made no sense.
No.
I’m saving it for Montero.
Montero gets #21.
BLASPHEMER!!! TOWNSPEOPLE, GATHER YOUR PITCHFORKS AND BURN THE EVILDOER AT THE STAKE!!!!
How DARE you give LaTroy Hawkin’s number to SOME STINKING ROOKIE!!!
Actually, I’m pretty much agreed on #21 to a good catcher. Seems like a good fit.
A-Rod has to have a single-digit Yanks number. He’s going to be one of the best players of all time when all is said and done. He deserves it. Plus, Torre will have to look at “his jersey” retired with A-Rod’s face all over it.
Can you imagine if A-Rod ASKED for #6? The team would advise against it, but if he really wanted it they’d give it to him.
The fans . . . . I dunno. Torre’s name is pretty much “Mud’ right now. He might get away with it there as well.
Yeah, give him #6. What the heck.
nah, he’d be vilified for it.
he’d be vilified for keeping his old number too though.
Couple years back A-Rod saved 3 kids from a burning building. He was booed while doing it.
it was because when he threw them from the building, he didn’t do a patented jump throw
No no no, it was because he didn’t save the building!
Nor did he throw them into the comfortable leather seats of a Ford Edge (through the panoramic Vista moonroof)
nor did he make a timely joke about the color of his Ford edge (BLAZING copper) after said fire, causing a great needed reprieve to the stresses of the day and making all of the firefighters admire him even more.
I guess noone saw what I did there.
We did. We’re just riffing right over the top of it.
Little ham and eggs coming at ya, people, hope you got your griddles ready…
Hey, Aqualung.
HEY AQUALUNG!!!
That’s babymaking music.
Whoa, whoa, whoa…easy there Steve. Are you suggesting that A-Rod would be villified for something?
Crazy talk.
Yeah, Alex would find a way to screw it up PR-wise.
is a joke about my spelling?
if it is, that’s ok, i’m just confused…
Sorry, Steve, I guess I didn’t convey my sarcasm well. A-Rod gets villified for everything, so it almost doesn’t matter what he does.
This guy’s a fartface, sperad the news!!!
no, your sarcasm was fine. i got confused b/c you bolded “villified” and i happened to spell it wrong. twice.
sorry i ruined your joke.
You misunderstood, Greg. The first part I was being sarcastic, and the second part I was saying Alex would find a way to screw it up.
ACK!!!! A non-nesting thread with two Steves!!!!
(1) steve (different one): No problem. My joke wasn’t that good to begin with.
(2) AFKA’T’ Steve: My original comment was directed at the “other” Steve’s comment. But don’t worry, I misunderstand a lot of comments around here. I think it’s because I haven’t seen “Anchorman”, though, but that’s beside the point.
Nice. That would be hilarious.
When does Ryan Braun become a FA?
7 or 8 years from now.
After 2015.
Taking John Garland over Randy Johnson for the same exact money deserves a gigantic facepalm. This is basically the pitching equivalent of the Raul Ibanez signing.
Damn, I’m not even gonna lie, I find myself rooting for the Knicks right now.
It’s only gonna get better, too…
http://img209.imageshack.us/im.....opyoe9.jpg
Donnie walsh could quit right now and I’d put him in the knicks hall of fame for how he turned this team around. I don’t know if there was a team in all of pro sports* that looked as moribound as the knicks last year. Between the guys on the roster and the coach and the amount of effort they put into games I thought they would take 2 or 3 years to even become watchable.
You could make a case for the Lion, but I am of the opinion that they aren’t as bad as their record would indicate. Pretty hard statement to back up but they have some pretty promising young guys on that team that could develop into stars.
*LionS
The reason Garland got more money than Pettitte is because he is better than Pettitte (in my opinion). Now I know there are some people (probably many people) out there that strongly disagree with me and dislike Garland, for whatever reason that may be.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, there are no rights and wrongs when it comes to discussing these issues.
But how can you say that when the stats are right there on this very page?
GET OUT OF YOUR MOTHER’S BASEMENT AND AWAY FROM YOUR SPREADSHEETS YOU STAT RAT NERDGEEK!
Provide analysis to back up your statement.
LOL I love doing that!
YOU counter with an opinion backed up by nothing.
I have the sneaking suspicion that I didn’t understand that. If that was your purpose then well played sir.
Yeah, it was a little role reversal on my part. I was playing a belligerent version of Paulie.
Very nice!!!
Except when a lot of the numbers point to Pettitte as better. Why do you prefer one over the other? It’s easy to say “that’s just my opinion” but when you don’t have anything to back it up, it seems kind of airy.
“Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, there are no rights and wrongs when it comes to discussing these issues.”
What a hideous cop-out. That loosely translates into “I can’t back up anything I say with any facts, stats, or anything else that makes any sense. So I’m just going to say its my opinion, and hope nobody calls me out on it.”
Come on, you can do better than that.
I can do better than that, but the point is I did not feel like do better than that…lol.
OK, at least you’re honest about it.
Maybe your not overly familiar with this place, but as you can see most of us like a good debate backed up by something tangible, usually stats of some kind.
If you’re not into that, then just feel free to jump in when we start with the potty humor and telling dick jokes, or when one of us flirts awkwardly with Rebecca.
In my defense, I also flirt awkardly with UWS.
I flirt awkwardly with girls on Counter-Strike!
…
TSJC left speechless? That’s gotta count for something.
It’s speechless in horror and pity.
You shouldn’t be happy about that.
Ya, being a fartface.
Aww I just wanted to be in with the internet-girl-flirter-cool-kid crowd too.
… there are no rights and wrongs when it comes to discussing these issues.
Yeah, there really is.
In a sense, I agree with Paulie. The intangibles count for a lot, and the intangibles are pretty subjective. In the end, I wanted Andy over any other FA starter, not because of the numbers (although the numbers may have justified resigning him), but because I trust him out there in big situations. Because that stare with the cap pulled down over his eyes just seems right. May not make much sense, but I’m not in it for the sense. Or something like that.
I do love the Andy stare… and those are the type of things i put into consideration when judging a player…obviously those are not the only things (if they were I would be an idiot), i do look a stats (I just am not a number-crunching guy).
But again you have typed nothing to back up your statement here.
I haven’t found a good site for looking up Stare Down Over Replacement stats. Know one?
I’m betting those 2001 World Series Pettitte vs Johnson games have got to be off the charts in stare down value.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, there are no rights and wrongs when it comes to discussing these issues
of course there are.
i’m not saying you are definitely wrong (even though you are), but of course there is a right answer and a wrong answer.
I think the Rays were a better team than the Phillies last year.
That’s my opinion, there are no rights and wrongs with these things.
San Diego. Scholars maintain the meaning was lost long ago. We’ll probably never know.
Doesn’t it mean Saint Diego?
Well…agree to disagree.
Well, when in Rome…
Huh. That ahh doesn’t really apply here.
I am not a huge statistical guy…as you can very well see. While I’m at it I might as well say I strongly dislike the 100 pitch count business… however I am not Nolan Ryan.
“Right and wrong exist. Just because you don’t know what they are doesn’t mean they don’t exist.”
“You’re entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts. “
Ok, if you’re not a statistical guy, in what way do you find Garland to be a better pitcher than Pettitte?
Ok, if you’re not a statistical guy, in what way do you find Garland to be a better pitcher than Pettitte?
Easy:
1) Pettitte pitches for the Yankees
2) Garland does not pitch for the Yankees
3) All pitchers who do not pitch for the Yankees are better than all pitchers who pitch for the Yankees, because the Yankees always make the wrong moves when acquiring players
4) Therefore, Jon Garland is better than Andy Pettitte.
OR,
1) Brian Cashman chose to sign Pettitte and not Garland
2) Brian Cashman is a well known idiot, and every decision he makes is wrong
3) Therefore, Brian Cashman choosing Pettitte over Garland must be wrong
4) Therefore, Jon Garland is better than Andy Pettitte.
Q.E.D.
Two proofs for the price of one!
Thats not exactly why I think Garland is better than Pettitte… and I am also a Cashman supporter.
If statistically they were 100% equals, Pettitte would still get more money (on the OPEN market) than Garland simply for being left handed. Seriously, would the D-Backs trade Garland for Pettitte right now, of course they would. There is not one thing you can say to back up Pettitte and Garland being comparable pitchers.
LISTEN PAL, I WATCHED A GAME THIS YEAR WHERE GARLAND WENT 7 INNINGS OF 1 RUN BALL AGAINST THE METS.
I looked at the box score of that game(and all of the others), but it just isn’t the same. You’re right, seeing him do it clearly makes him better than Pettitte.
Hahahah. I like when Mike Pop says “Pal”.
It was either pal or boyo.
Call it, friendo.
i like when he says fartface
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, there are no rights and wrongs when it comes to discussing these issues.
Wrong. You’re not entitled to an opinion that says that Sidney Ponson is a better pitcher than CC Sabathia. Not all opinions are valid, some of them are patently ridiculous.
Saying that you feel that Jon Garland is better than Andy Pettitte is patently ridiculous.
Simply saying that you’re entitled to feel that Jon Garland is better than Andy Pettitte does not in fact make Jon Garland better than Andy Pettitte.
He’s not.
I haven’t heard much speculation or suggestion about the Yankees prying Elijah Dukes away from the Nats. As emotionally distressed as this guy seems to be, he may be the one chance the Yankees have at getting a young, very athletic outfielder without surrendering our own key players. Other than Ajax, the upper reaches of the farm system are barren of outfielders–we could use a guy like this (unless he goes to prison for an extended period). Anybody else thing it might be worth rolling the dice? Maybe the pressure of playing in New York will drive the thug out of him.
no,no,no id rather sign manny to a 10 year contract and make him sleep in the same room as jeter, damn now im scared for my life
Maybe the pressure of playing in New York will drive the thug out of him.
I laughed at that.
I’ll give you credit for reading the whole post and thank you for picking that nugget out. I couldn’t even get past the first sentence when I saw Dukes and Yankees, and moved on.
I stopped at “As emotionally distressed as this guy seems to be…”
“Well, he’s an ex free-base addict, and he’s trying to turn around, and he needs a place to stay for a couple of months.”
http://www.talkingnfl.com/wp-c.....12/bad.jpg
From the stories about Dukes, this isn’t stealing laptops in HS character issue, this isn’t even a crack addiction that has been kicked, he has shown to be a danger to his teammates & others, maybe he really has turned a corner, and if so good for him, and good for the Nats in giving him another chance.
The Yankees spend 200M a year so they don’t have to take chances on guys like Dukes, let the Nationals sort it out, if he makes it, he’s not in our division.
“Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, there are no rights and wrongs when it comes to discussing these issues.”
I agree. If you WATCH THE GAMES you would realize how good Garland is. In my opinion Garland is better than Katie Holmes topless. TM
Yeah, but better than me topless?
Nothing! Absolutely nothing!
I can give you my e-mail account, nobody has to know…
Can that be displayed in a spreadsheet?
Stop making “spreadsheet” sound dirty!
Rebecca-Optimist Prime says:
Yeah, but better than me topless?
Remember, fellas, this is Rebecca-Optimist Prime almost topless:
http://i177.photobucket.com/al.....esGirl.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/b8a8t2
That’s it. I am *so* much hotter than that.
it’s from 2005
2007. Blurrier, but more recent
Hidden in the bouquet?
Another bouquet….. of knives
Made me laugh out loud with this one, pat.
Oooh very nice!
I hope you like stalkers, cuz I have a feeling you’re about to acquire a whole army of them
If it gets me blog hits…
You should change your blog name to “Sexy Girl with Swords”. Now that right there, that would get many hits. Of course you can include a Yankee article here or there but mainly just focus on pictures of you. Haha
That’s it. I am *so* much hotter than that.
I salute you.
(yeah, I said it.)
Now, do me a favor: put on the outfit from the fake picture of you that I post and take another picture of yourself, so we can put this thing to bed once and for all.
. . . so we can put this thing to bed once and for all.
Whoa there, big man. At least buy the lady a drink first.
It’s all good. I’m FedExing her a mixtape of love music as we speak.
In that case, carry on.
I ain’t much on Casanova/
Me and Romeo ain’t never been friends/
Can’t you see how much I really love you?/
Gonna sing it to you time and time again/
Oh, Casanova!
Casanova!
Yes, we need to see the picture to provide objective, even handed analysis.
above.
Just post a link to the picture, we will be able to discuss it better after that.
What are the odds Melancon breaks camp this year? And what is our bullpen looking like as of now if we don’t add a guy like Cruz?
Cruz would just be a luxury. The bullpen should be very solid (especially with a Joe who knows how to use it). Not only will it be solid, but there will be enforcements in AAA waiting in the wings. If someone struggles on the big club, they can be replaced by Melancon, Aceves, Hughes, etc, etc, etc. In fact, our cache of power arms in the pen is so deep, shall we never hear the unmentionable mentioned again.
True. Luxury for sure. But whats the answer to my question man? Melancon or no Melancon? And the ‘pen at Mo-Marte/Bruney and whoever?
Doubt Melancon will break camp. I think he’ll be one of the guys waiting in the wings. By season end, I think he’ll be an important cog. I think in the pen it really is Mo,Marte,Bruney and whoever. Albie has a chance to have some success, Veras and Edwar were very solid back there. If any of these guys fail (probable due to the year to year nature) we won’t be stuck throwing some 35 year old veteran reliever out there, we’ll have young power arms. Hell, I even think Giese can be a useful piece out there.
i think no melancon i dont think girardi will let him break camp with the club like he did with that other kid last year scott patterson who had an amazing spring
Maybe Robertson will improve? He has the stuff.
Only time will tell
Periods and commas my friend.
Periods and commas, my friend.
Touche.
You have a typo. It’s actually written with a D not a T. Booyah!
i C what you DT
Heh, I’m not great with it but I try.
I’m extremely sorry if my improper grammar has insulted you.
It didn’t insult me at all but you will get bashed if you keep writing like that.
I doubt Melancon breaks camp with the team, but I’d imagine that unless he falls flat on his face in Scranton (doubtful) or all 7 or so guys in front of him all have Mo-like seasons of dominance (impossible), he’ll be with the big club by August/September.
Someone will get hurt, and he’ll get called up eventually.
I have a feeling Alby will be the first call up, though. He’s been great in winter ball.
Now Alby is a guy I actually do think breaks camp. I mean, Alby > Edwar, right?
Edwar’s pretty established by now, I would think. Plus, he has one of the best change ups in Baseball. If he could just figure out how to spot his fastball better and mix in the slider more, he could be very tough.
I stick with Edwar, I like the swing and miss ability out of the pen. Gives us another look.
I worked it out in my head, and this is how I would construct the bullpen as of the end of the winter leagues:
Closer: Duh
Righty setup: Bruney
Lefty setup: Marte
Middle reliever: Veras
Middle reliever: Albaladejo
Middle reliever: Ramirez
Long reliever: Aceves
If Coke was reporting as a reliever, I may have been tempted to switch out Edwar for him.
Shit, Ryan, what happened to Mo?
/crawls back under rock
That Duh guy is awesome.
Melancon should be one of the first call ups, his AAA numbers are to small to judge him with…he may get a good chance in ST to make it with the team. There is always the chance he may make it impossible to keep him in AAA plus, there could be an injury or non-performance from one of the guys.
Did you just imply that Phil Hughes should be used in the bullpen? That’s like The Unmentionable Part 2.
I’d support that. If he doesn’t get enough innings, he can do winter ball again.
Young Mr. Hughes ought just spend the entire season in AAA and be our #6 starter when we eventually need him. That young boy doesn’t need to get wild impressions of the bullpen running around in his head or anyone else’s for that matter. We have plenty of players being groomed for the pen that we can call up, and he will be required as a starting pitcher in the big leagues next year – I promise you.
There’s two theories here. One says let him stay in AAA and work on his secondary stuff, which is valid.
The other says he has nothing left to prove in the minors, he just needs to gain confidence at the big league level, and a good way to build that up is in small bites out of the bullpen. Also valid.
So it really comes down to the needs of the team (which always comes first) and the team’s assessment of the player. Since they really don’t need a bullpen arm badly, he’ll likely start in AAA.
Not only that, but Hughes lost some “innings time” with his injuries last year. It’d be hard to catching up to the total he needs on bullpen appearances alone.
Besides, It’s hard to imagine a situation where he doesn’t get called up to make some starts for the big league club. It’s just hard to go a whole season with the same 5 starters.
Not that hard to imagine. Aceves could get those starts, as could IPK.
Fair enough, I should rephrase my point: “It’s hard to imagine a situation where they don’t need a 6th starter.”
I don’t think Hughes’ problem is confidence, I think it’s innings and health. If he breaks camp in AAA, starts every fifth day, and then comes up if a starter is needed, that should work out okay. Same with Aceves and IPK, although my preference would be that Hughes would be first in line (especially if the call up is for more than a spot start)
But would you pitch him more than once every 5 days? Is that okay to do for his development?
I would argue that staying in AAA and letting him kick ass for a full season there would also help his confidence. He’s still going to get those small bites of major league experience by being the #6 guy. I suppose I can envision certain scenarios where Hughes would be used in the bullpen during the later part of the season or in the playoffs, but I think he needs to get at least 140 innings in as a starter before you even think about converting him.
Well at least the Joba starter vs reliever debate might be put to bed in favor of a Hughes debate
I got no problem Earl Weavering Hughes. There’s something to be said for just being on the major league roster, waiting for your opportunity. He might be the better for it.
All you say about bullpen depth is true, yet the Yankees should still sign Cruz for one year, ride for all he’s worth for 3+ months, and then trade him for a mint in July (while replacing him with one of Melancon/Alby/Whelan/Cox and so on). Cruz is very good, and some fool who figures if he can just nail down the eighth inning will pay dearly for him.
I have no problem with that idea at all.
Nooooooooo…..the stoopid evil Facebook chat is down for maintenance. Kill.
Not to stray too far away from baseball, but did anyone see the awesome game between the Bobcats and Lakers? Great. Game.
I missed it.
Heard that Andrew Bynum WWE’d Gerald Wallace, though.
ICWUDT. Yes he did, Wallace may have a collapsed lung and has a fractured rib. Some say it wasn’t intentional, but I say it was the single dirtiest move I’ve seen in a long, long time. This may end the Bobcats winning streak. That felt weird to type.
“Twins End Talks With Gagne
According to Joe Christensen of the Minneapolis-St. Paul Star Tribune, the Twins have broken off talks with Eric Gagne. Christensen reports that the Twins are now turning their focus to finding eighth-inning relief help through a trade. ”
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....talks.html
We have a few 8th inning guys to deal. Wonder what the Twins might have for us.
We have a few 8th inning guys to deal. Wonder what the Twins might have for us.
Joba for Nick Punto.
. . . . . and when Bill Smith pulls the gun away from Cashman’s ear and Brian calls the cops, then what?
Joba = “8th inning guy”
Nick Punto = “scrappy”
We need scrappiness. It’s a perfect trade for us.
Joba grew a goatee this off season.
I’m glad we don’t see that in the regular season.
[ head explodes ]
He is from Nebraska, so the grittiness is accepted simply because of his geography.
AWESOME! I’M GRITTY!!!
Take THAT, Bill Plaschke!
Lol right you’re Nebraskan…what did Bill Plaschke say about that? (Btw whatever happened to “Around the Horn” and PTI?)
He’s always had it, Yankees just stop him from using it on the field.
Punto was second in the majors in DU (Dirt to Uniform) ratio behind only Pedroia. That’s exactly what we need.
Nice.
If he was missing a few teeth, he’d be perfect. Or British.
They should use Francisco Liriano for
The 8th Inning
Ryan S. go buy yourself a copy of 2K Sports’ MLB® Front Office Manager featuring Billy Beane, my friend, because you are a genius and you will CRUSH that game!
I can’t wait to bat Veritek 4th in the Boston lineup.
4 NO HITTAZ!!!!1!!!
Can I sell the naming rights of stadiums in 2KSMLB®FOMFBB?
Depends Adult Diapers Park, home of the Boston Red Sox!
I was thinking the same thing. I don’t really know what we would want from the Twins or could reasonably get. I mean they have a some good guys like Span but definitely they wouldn’t trade them for a couple of relievers.
They wouldn’t trade him, and the Yankees shouldn’t want him. He had a real nice year last year, but then Melky did too in 2006. There’s nothing in Span’s resume that makes me think he is significantly better than what is already in NY.
What’s FIP?
http://www.google.com
Fabulously Intelligent People.
Feeling Insignificant, Padres?
Farts Inside Punchbowl
awesome.
Finger in pus…. oh alright Ill tell you the real definition.
Field Independant Pitching, basically it is ERA minus the defense.
I was so hoping my ” http://www.google.com ” would be the only response, forcing him to go look it up himself.
I’m an asshole.
I had to go look it up on google, so I guess you win.
I haven’t been on RAB as long as him, but I get the feeling he has won every argument he has been a part of.
If by argument you mean Fantasy Football tournament then yes, he has won them all.
This message brought to you by the TSJCPAC.
He has? It’s not like he mentioned it at all.
Nah, I had a snarky ass comment lined up but firefox crashed.
Fairly Important People
Not as important as VIP’s but still more important than regular folk.
http://tinyurl.com/ch2mvg
I just jizzed in my pants.
Ooooh, ahhhh (h/t to PeteAbe): http://www.wcbs880.com/pages/3.....7530#imgXR
Someone’s getting stoned.
Why do they call them fingers? I’ve never seen them fing – nevermind, there it goes.
Thats sick
Damn G-Town lost AGAIN!
How about this for an awesome new TV show… Americas Next Top Pornstar. This would probably be the target demographic.
I used to love watching “7 Lives Exposed” when I was a freshman and sophomore in High School.
Ya, you would like that, wouldn’t you Pat? You sick fu*k!!!
It would be awesome you put the contestants through all these crazy tests and trials. You could make them have sex in all these crazy places to see if they can keep their concentration. I’ve seen enough shitty porn in my life to recognize a good performance. Pop know you k now what i’m talkin about.
No? ok well then i guess you’re right I’m a sick f*ck. Guilty as charged.
I’m guilty, guilty as charged!
Seriously, what could we get back for Edwar, Veras or even Bruney.
Not a starting CF. What other need to the Yankees currently have?
Or don’t pay for, in this case.
The Knicks have won 5 of 6. Honestly cannot remember the last time that happened.
They are almost 500!!
I just had a sad, sad thought:
There are going to be people that purchase 2KSMLB®FOMFBB and use Joba in the bullpen.
Douche bags.
Stupid B-Jobbers
I would do that, but I would make sure he pitched every time: 1) the game was within a run either way 2) he was able 3) I needed a reliever, regardless of the inning, and 4) I would let him finish the game.
Do it like that, and he might be more valuable than as a starter.
He’ll also be out for the season by May. Is the game realistic with injuries?
Am I a douche for turning injuries off in video games? I mean, it’s a freakin’ video game! I don’t need my stars getting hurt for fake.
How about Knicks schedule next week, all at home. Mon vs Lakers, Wed vs Cavs, Fri vs Celtics!!!! Funny thing is with the way they are now playing, winning 1 of the 3 should be expected and winning 2 out of 3 could be possible….
IPK, Edwar, and Gardner for Gomez.
Is that just wishful thinking?
Carlos Gomez? He of the .339/.399/.738 minor league career?
UZR was pretty fine last year…but pass. Just let Gardner play.
No; it’s too much.
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/.....-and-more/
Must read article by Tyler Kepner of the NY Times(H/T Pete Abe)
The bit about Pavano at the end of the article is hilarious!
B-Jobbers have their opinions, the same as the rest of us. They may not be overly bright but, they have a forum (any Sports Blog) just as we do, to say anything they wish. If you don’t agree…don’t read or comment. Free speech, we still have…right?Damn, that was good!
Eloquently put.
YA GODDAMN PIMP!!!!
Pimp is not a word I find acceptable when applied to me. Please refrain from using it. Pimp is a very derogatory epitaph…at least among people of my generation. Once was enough. Thank you!
Geez I’m sorry dude. Bigtime generational difference. I didn’t mean to offend you. Surely you know amongst the younger crowd it is most definitely a compliment and does not have the same connotation as a person with a stable of prostitutes.
does not have the same connotation as a person with a stable of prostitutes.
I thought it kinda did? Only we don’t share our ho’s with others in exchange for money.
You going to any spring training games? If you are look me up, I’ll be the little old guy with the Ranger field hat. We can talk about the differences in our generations. It would be very enlightening don’t you think?
Pimps are the scum of the earth so, your egregious innuendos are not welcome…no matter how you try and cover it. See you in the spring I hope.
=================
Geez I’m sorry dude. Bigtime generational difference. I didn’t mean to offend you.
================
See how much nicer that looks? That would have been a good place to stop.
Eat it, you laptop stealing maggot: http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....4162535584
Yes but notice it was hit in the first inning. Which for Arod means it only counted for half a run.
that was crushed.
I kind of have this thing that I do where I go back in the video archives of the year before and I start in April and I watch every video clip of the previous season. You just reminded me that I need to start pretty soon
I wonder how many blogs would KILL to have upwards of 400 comments on some shit wednesday night the middle of january.
Its amazing how much traffic this place has gotten in such a short span of time. A year ago and this place had like 50 comments on really important posts like the whole Santana situation.
I blame Jamal’s wit and TSJC’s encyclopedic knowledge.
I blame Jamal’s wit and TSJC’s
encyclopedic knowledgeinsufferable assholery.Fixed.
Oh, and as BtB points out, the D-Backs could have had Randy Johnson, who was worth nearly two more wins than Garland in ‘08, for roughly the same amount of money. Ouch
I kept on thinking that when analyzing this signing. They could’ve had a better, more proven pitcher who loved playing in Arizona (who would’ve made the team a ton of money next year thanks to his pursuit of 300 wins)…and they signed Jon Garland for the same amount of money. Ridiculous…
They night be able get Ben Sheets for a year for the Garland money.
What is the record at RAB for most posts on a single thread?
One of the redsox game threads at the end of the year is my guess.
http://riveraveblues.com/2008/...../#comments
hah, we are barely half way there.
TSJC was only going by TSJC? Wow
That was like 4 name appendages ago…
(they grow up so fast!)
I think the last game at the stadium threads had like close to 1000 comments
I could be wrong, I just checked every game thread starting with game 162 and going backward
Your right, I didn’t add the spill over threads together from the final game at Yankee Stadium.
437+462+258 is 1157.
WOW. Just wow.
He said a single thread.
Technically, that is a single thread.
Nah, it has to be contained within a single thread to hold the record. Spillovers can’t be added on to an official record.
The site loaded slow with all those comments,so we had to start a new one to talk in. Same thread.
I don’t understand what everyone is talking about, according to Rob Neyer the Diamondbacks got a bargain.
Rob Neyer sucks.
He also said that Jed Lowrie is a top 5 SS. I swear Peter Gammons had a gun to his head at that moment.
And, of course, Gammons had Lowrie’s c*ck in his mouth.
must be pretty talented to have a gun to neyer’s head and a C*ck in his mouth.
How does one go about getting elected to the hall of fame as a sportswriter ?
That’s why he’s a HOFer.
Maybe it’s possible he meant top 5 in the AL, which wouldn’t be ridiculous.
I knew Jeter wouldnt defend A-rod
“It gets to a point where it seems like we’re always talking about the same thing,” Jeter said. “It seems like every year at this time it’s the same questions about the same things. I think everyone is eager to get to spring training and start playing on the field.”
[...] Joe Torre saw a ‘coldness’ in Randy Levine’s dealings / Getting what you pay for [...]
http://www.bronxbanterblog.
And on Bronx Banter
Roger’s prep to pitching
Verducci writes that Clemens’ usual pregame preparation included taking a whirlpool bath at the hottest temperature possible. “He’d come out looking like a lobster,” Yankee trainer Steve Donahue told Verducci. Donahue would then rub hot liniment all over Clemens’ body. “Then Donahue would rub the hottest possible liniment on his testicles,” Verducci writes.
“He’d start snorting like a bull,” the trainer said. “That’s when he was ready
Snirkle, Snort, Guffaw. Nothing like a healthy Guffaw