Open Thread: Spring Training invites
By
The Yanks announced the list of players they’re inviting to Spring Training today, all twenty of them. Here’s the breakdown (PeteAbe gets enough links, so let’s give Mike Ashmore some love this time):
Catchers: Kyle Anson, Kevin Cash, Jesus Montero, PJ Pilittere, Austin Romine
Infielders: Doug Bernier, Angel Berroa, Eduardo Nunez, Ramiro Pena, Kevin Russo
Outfielders: Colin Curtis, Shelley Duncan, Austin Jackson, Justin Leone, Todd Linden, John Rodriguez
Pitchers: Kei Igawa, Jason Johnson, Mark Melancon, Sergio Mitre
Everyone on the 40-man roster tags along too, so the Yanks will have a total of sixty players in big league camp this year. Last year they had 66 players in camp; the only guy from last year’s group that’s still with the organization and healthy enough to participate in ST that didn’t get an invite this year is poor Eric Duncan. Can you call him poor when he got a $1,275,000 signing bonus? In reality, it is a shame what happened to the kid. He was one of the Yanks’ few legit prospects a few years ago, so they rushed him up the ladder to boost his trade value. For shame.
Todd Linden carved out a nice little niche for himself a few years ago as Barry Bonds’ late inning defensive replacement out in San Fran, but he’s got a 66 career OPS+ and a .290 wOBP. Bernier and Leone are just filler Triple-A guys, both can play a ton of positions. It’s unlikely either factors into the utility infielder situation, at least early in the year. Mitre is still rehabbing from having Tommy John surgery in July, so he’s just getting back on the bump.
Melancon was in camp last year despite having less than 8 pro innings under his belt after TJ, but he’ll be given every chance to win a bullpen gig this year. Montero, Romine, Jackson and Anson were in camp last year, but they’re just there for the experience. However with the WBC taking place this year, a lot of these young guys will be getting extended looks while the vets are off doing their thing. I’m looking forward to seeing Brackman more than anyone.
Anyway, it looks like Shelley Duncan cleared waivers after his DFAing. Justin Christian headed for the greener pastures of Baltimore, where he’ll actually get an opportunity to play. I wish him the best.
* * *
Andy in Sunny Daytona, I think you should go and try out for this. It’s only what, a three or four hour drive down to Miami? That’s nothing. Plus I hear that your jiggliciousness rates a 70 on the 20-80 scouting scale.
Here’s your open thread. Anything goes, just be cool.
190 Comments»
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The Mason Williams Watch
None of you are worthy, but I won’t tell if you watch.
love how nobody posted for 8+ minutes after this was posted
holy shit,
I am *so* not worthy
only pussies use aluminum bats
/ hides
He used wood & aluminum, I just showed the aluminum in the video.
Hope for his sake he looks good in black and gold (or black and orange)
fuck that, I hope he looks good in white and navy blue…
Heh
What will he do, spend 1 month in the minors before taking over in the majors?
He has to finish his last two and a half years of high school first.
I know that but I remember you saying something like he is a Justin Upton like talent. So he won’t spend much time in the minors at all right?
He’s a catcher, so he’ll definitely need more in the minors than The Justin Upton, probably two and a half years or so, like Mauer.
Ooh okay. You think Posey makes his debut in 09?
So the Yanks should aim for a last-place finish in 2011.
He is going to ask for a crazy signing bonus right?
Boras has already latched onto the kid.
For real? I’d believe it.
I was going to say this exact same thing heh.
Hey Mike, where’s this weeks prospect profile? Also, anyone else upset that this man-child wasn’t invited to ST:
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....sett-6724/
I just did one last week. I’m posting them every other week.
That photo is a fake. There is no known photo of Melvin “Asesino de Sueños” Croussett.
Anyone see Rosenthal’s prediction that Nady will be a Type A after this year? I can see him being a lock for a B, but wouldn’t he have to have another career year to be an A?
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....season-gem
He was a Type-A this year with a mediocre 2007, so if he has an avg season by his standards, he should be fine.
Good to know, I guess Cashman should really think twice before letting him go just to save 5-6M then.
Another reason to not trade him. There is nothing wrong with having a surplus of players. We do not need to trade anyone. The odds are someone will go down.
this offseason people are shying away from guys like orlando cabrera, juan cruz and orlando hudson because they have type a status. i feel like they would think the same thing with regards to xavier nady…
we dont know what the economy will look like next year and it wouldnt make sense to not trade nady for something we might need in order to get two first round picks
Yeah, but OCab is old, and OHud’s value is heavily based on his defense, which is declining.
Nady will be younger than both, and will likely have a solid bat and positional flexibility. He might lose some dollars due to the economy, but someone will sign him.
Agreed.
Here’s next year’s free agent list.
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.c.....gents.html
Looks like there will be PLENTY of outfielders to choose, from the high end (Holliday/Bay) to the low end and everything in between. That will likely keep his price down.
Screw Bay and Holliday, the guy the Yanks should go after is Brian Giles. That guy is freaking machine. No need to commit 5+ years or $100M+ either, you get him for one or to years and keep the flexibility.
It’s amazing how underrated that guy is, including defensively.
But he is a real scumbag.
In that case, why not go for a short deal for Vlad or Ordonez, who at least have AL experience?
I wouldn’t for any of the 3, because at their ages you just never know if they’re going to hit the wall and be done. Some guys it comes quickly.
Pretty sure Maggs will hit his escalators in his contract thereby guaranteeing him 33 mil for the last 2 years of the deal.
Nady is probably within the top 5 to be honest. Assuming Vlad gets extended and can’t play the outfield. Crawford’s option gets picked up, same with Dye and Magglio. I think X will have a good amount of interest.
Don’t be so sure about Crawford. They might have a better internal option if Desmond Jennings is ready by then. He’ll be 23 going into the 2010 season, and could start 09 in AA.
They’ll keep Carl.
Any Big East Basketball fans here? Got my alma mater Syracuse playing Georgetown tonight, gonna be a good one!
And I had been wondering where everyone had gone off to, and now I know. Sweet.
I hope the legs of all 24 players fall off simultaneously. But Boeheim (sp?) is a good guy.
…Someone went to UConn…
(you spelled it right!)
Haha, yeah. I still go there for…(checks watch)…four more months.
Big East tournament, March 2006
I was at Hofstra in March of ’06. I’m STILL pissed that GMU UNDESERVINGLY got into the tourney over Hofstra. That, and a love of Marques Colston, are the only remaining shreds of pride in that awful school I have.
But. grrr. I hope we can actually win a tournament game this year. Since I transferred there, they haven’t.
Syracuse never won a tournament game while I was there, so it evens out.
Has Mookie Jones played much this year? I played against him once or twice in high school. The kid was absoulutely amazing, his highschool team (Peekskill) just ridiculous. Seemed like they dominated every game they were in.
And when I say played, I meant my highschool team with me watching from the bench, lol. I would never go into a game against those guys. All of them towered over me and I could not defend any of them.
Mookie hasn’t gotten as much time as his long lost twin brother Kevin from Mt. Vernon has over at West Virginia. No actual relation between the two, but both are monsters.
Oh yeah, Mookie was a god in Peekskill. It was awesome to watch him play though.
La bohème. It’s an op-er-a
It’s pronounced BAY-Hime though, so it doesn’t work.
I keid, I keid.
You damn Orangemen(Women) take your coach to seriously.
‘Cos unlike the football dude, he wins crap on occasion!
La bohème. It’s an op-er-a
He was wearing MY HARVARD TIE, like, oh, sure, he went to Harvard…
Why not Cox?
I’m not sure, he could still be hurt I suppose. He was pretty bad in AAA last year too.
Yeah, well you’d hope he rebounds this year and gets a call up at some point. I don’t see why not let him have the experience and have him be one of the first guys you assign to minor league camp (though the still hurt theory could totally be true).
It’s kind of funny when you think about how far we’ve come from the days when Eric Duncan and Drew Henson were our top prospects…
Would mind seeing the Yanks take a flier on 2 Cubs that are out of options: Felix Pie(CF) and Rich Hill(5th SP). Low risk high reward. Anyone know what it would take to get them?
SoCalYankeeFan
Kennedy+Melky
If that’s all it would take, then sign me up. Something tells me it’d take more than that though, or that there’s another issue…like maybe Pie wants a long term deal and the yankees don’t want to give a CF a long term deal because of AJax.
Haha I was just kidding… Kennedy+Melky for Peavy obviously…
Long term deal? Too effing bad, you’ll take the league minimum for the next two years, then a salary negotiated by your agent or one awarded by a three person arbitration panel for the following three years and YOU’LL LIKE IT!!!
Yeah, but that doesn’t sound Stienbrennerish enough.
Hill has The Thing, stay away. If they really want him, they could claim him on waivers when the Cubs take him off the 40-man roster at the end of Spring Training.
“Hill has The Thing, stay away”
‘The thing’? What on Earth does THAT mean?
Genital herpes?
Leprosy??
Inverted nipples???
Shingles.
Chicago White Sox sign Bartolo Colon (mlbtr). Seemingly would leave only us, Texas, and the Mets for Fragile Freddy…
I was going to say the same thing
I’m way to pretty for that dance squad. I could be the choreographer like Debbie Allen in Fame. I could walk around with a walking stick yelling at everyone to get out of shape.
Andy = Dom DeLuise in Blazing Saddles.
Throw out your hands/
Stick out your tush/
Hands on your hips/
Give ‘em a push/
You’ll be surprised; you’re doing the French mistake/
VOILA!
If you try out, we’ll let you blog your experience here.
I do owe you for Melvin……
could the yanks try to restart eric duncan? take him back to double-a, play him every day and let him work on everyhting. He does have talent still, no?
its tough to bring him back mentally.
What do you think is a reasonable deal with the Braves? We trade Nady for ______?
Kelly Johnson + pitching prospect. Shoot high then negotiate down.
Oh, I like that idea.
Kelly Johnson and Tommy Hanson, then. Sounds good to me.
I’d even go as high as including Kei Igawa in that deal. Provided ATL picks up all of his remaining salary, of course.
just to be nice, i’d even pay half of igawa’s salary.
Personally?
Sounds good to me.
Chipper Jones. Move him to third, put A-Rod at short, and Jeter at 2nd, trade Cano and others for Peavy.
Get it done, Cash.
What about the Justin Maxwell idea that Nomaas throws out there. Could be a decent pick up right?
I don’t get the infatuation with that kid at all. He hit .233 in AA while being old for the league AND he’s already on the 40 man with only two options left because Bowden though it would be smart to call him up last year.
If he was a Yankees’ prospect, he’d have the BUST tag already firmly applied to his forehead. Why are people willing to be more patient with other team’s prospects then they are with the Yanks’ prospects?
The grass is always greener, I guess.
Oh well, I didn’t know too much about the guy at all. I was just asking to see if he has any upside.
Jo-Jo Reyes and Martin Prado
Reyes is not too good, no thanks.
Eek, Reyes is another guy. 5.94 ERA, 1.66 WHIP, 105-82 K/BB in 163.67 IP in the NL? Maybe if he’s a throw in, but a guy like that can’t be the centerpiece of a Nady deal.
And Prado’s nothing special. Nothing in his track suggests he can repeat last year’s performance.
The love is appreciated, gentlemen…
Don’t mention it.
Wow, this is like the ‘In Crowd’ over here.
I gotta come here more often.
Didn’t Nacci make camp last year, too? Compared to Eric Duncan, whose prospect status is most destroyed?
Probably Horne. He got old and hurt and ineffective real fast. I’ve started working on my top 30 list, and he’s not going to make the cut after ranking #5 last year.
I don’t think he’ll be with the organization much longer.
Will anyone notice? Its not like he’s pitched much since 2005. Or before then, for that matter.
I had high hopes for Horne (I wasn’t alone), I think most of us thought he was going to make it in ’09. Unless there is a huge turnaround this year…health and pitching…Eric Duncan anyone!
Mike you had him at #5 last year? Honest placement, at the time.
I thought he’d be able to contribute. It’s really been health with him. Last year, if you followed his situation on Chad Jennings’ Scranton blog, he was never right, even when he was taking the mound. Coming off a fully-healthy season, it seemed like he’d finally get to crack the bigs.
Oh well. If he can stay healthy this season, he should still get a chance.
Duncan has mostly just sucked. I don’t see many shades of him in the Horne situation.
I really hope Montero takes some Major Leaguer deep in ST.
/Capt. Obvious reporting for duty.
Dude, last year he hit 1.000-1.000-4.000 with a 5.000 OPS in Spring Training. Solo homer in his only at bat, off eight year ML vet Vic Darensbourg of the Phils.
The only thing I can recall from ST (aside from Billy Crystal) was when they put part of a game in black and white and it looked awesome in HD.
I remember the Virginia Tech game. That was very cool.
Yeah, that was pretty awesome. I remember A-Rod sitting on their sideline just chatting them up and the one kid who was a Yankees fan didn’t get to talk to him.
I remember seeing A-Jax up to bat. He just looked like a baller. Can’t wait for him to come up!
He went deep last ST, but I don’t know if it was against a pitcher with MLB experience.
Dude didn’t he do that on like the first pitch he saw last ST?!
Gah Syracuse, WTF are you doing to me?!
Mookie Jones needs to get in there.
indeed.
According to Ken Gurnick of MLB.com, the Dodgers are expected to officialy release Andruw Jones Thursday morning.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....-rele.html
—————-
whereever Cashman is at now, I bet he already setted up his alarm clock and have his phone already.
Why? Does he have something to do? Is his dog sick or something?
If he’ll take a MiL deal with a ST invite, why the hell not? At worst it’ll light a fire under Gardner/Melky’s ass.
Or put the guy who does the catering for the clubhouse out of business.
Have you seen the video of him taking some BP with Chipper Jones? He looks in good shape.
Man I remember when he was like the best in the game…
If that was the case, why would the Dodgers be paying him 20 mil NOT to play for them next year?
Maybe because they want to sign Manny Ramirez, and don’t want to have over $20M locked up in a potential bench player in Andruw Jones?
Ya, it is all deferred money though.
Like, they don’t have the weight of the world on their shoulders now?
Because of all the high hopes for Melky, and as far as he has fallen…it would be great for he and Brett to make very good marks in ST. Plus, if they would do well enough to be avg.+ our OF would be ok for next year. Brett, Melkey, Swisher with (maybe) A-Jax, not to shabby of an OF.
Yeah, I don’t think Gardner needs any fire lit under him. Melky . . . . who gives a shit. If he loses out to Gardner in ST I’m sure he’ll have fun smirking and waving to the bleacher creatures in AAA.
It’s the same argument I’ve heard some make about bringing a veteran like Pedro Martinez in to ST, to “light a fire” under Hughes. If you saw the same Phil Hughes I did, half of his problem in the bigs was that he was simply trying too hard. Mattingly said the same thing in late 07. He doesn’t need a fire lit under him, if anything he needs to relax. This isn’t Football, people. Baseball is funny that way, the harder you try, the worse the results.
I agree, there are time that a fire needs to be lit to motivate someone (see Andruw Jones) however BG, Hughes & Kennedy don’t fit this mold, none of their struggles have been lack of discipline or work ethic.
You got that right!
Phil was guilty as charged…one should ad A-Rod, last year (sometimes) and in the play-offs.
Dewey Cox.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....ink-t.html
There goes another 5th starter option… damn
Please tell me you’re joking.
I am very much joking, Tower put up and ERA over 6 in AAA last year… yikes
Oh thank goodness. I was just about to click the “Ban Forever” button.
There’s a “Ban Forever” button? That’s awesome.
http://i206.photobucket.com/al.....Fail02.jpg
Meanie.
Not directed at you, just the only slightly “funny” picture of a keyboard button I could think of off the top of my head.
http://www.2kad.net/albums/album08/newkeyboard.jpg
Wait, I thought the internet was merely a communication medium used the world over to slander others anonymously and share pornography with one another.
You can get MUSIC on the internets too? I JUST JIZZED IN MY PANTS!!!
http://www.amazon.com/Kleenex-.....038;sr=8-1
heh.
There’s a “Ban Forever” button, and a “Redirect this comment to LoHud” button as well.
Redirect this comment to Lohud button
Awesome
….
You know, I know that they purposely f*cked with the expos to get them to move the team, but this…
re: the Bryce Harper video…holy Bichette! Didn’t realize DBJ was that old.
I would not touch Jones with a 10 foot pole
What if that 10 foot pole was made of hot dogs?
HEY! IF YOU WERE A HOT DOG WOULD YOU EAT YOURSELF?! ‘CAUSE I KNOW I SURE WOULD!
Oh and if it was made of hot dogs, he’d just eat his way through it and then it’d be a shorter than 10 foot pole.
Yeah, that’s where I was going with it.
If only there was a way to give the baseball a hot-dog scent to make Andruw want to go chase it down in the outfield, or make contact with it at the plate.
Hey, Jones! I bet if that ball was a cheeseburger you’d catch it!
Any other Top Chef fans?
I’ll take that as a no.
/sad head hang
http://www.sadtrombone.com
http://i435.photobucket.com/al.....tled-3.jpg
Wow, that sucks.
[fighting the urge to hyperlink to "www.sadtrombone.com" to bemoan the apparent end of "www.sadtrombone.com"]
i just thought of something, if romane becomes our catcher after posada where will montero play it cant be 1st base because we signed tex.
2012:
Tex – 1B
Romine – C
Montero – DH
ARod – 3B
Jeter – LF
Posada – Retired, awaiting his ceremony in Monument Park
That too!
What about Miranda? I know, we will have little use for a lefty DH that can’t hit lefty pitchers. Someone will see him as another Ortiz and trade for him? Damn, I hope so!
No.
Unless Romine hits a lot better and Montero can’t hit anymore…not to worry Montero will perivale. Montero would have to be 265 lbs. and 6’6″ to out grow catching. Every quarter he has gotten better, footwork, calling the game etc., this is a guy that is an athlete (by no means, is he fast)…I like his ability/probability of staying a catcher.
I think Romine will end up being his back-up with the Yanks in 2011/12.
i was just walking through the apartment singing “29 days to pitchers and catchers” and my wife, with no prompting, said “or, if you’re the mets, 29 days to catchers”
served!
Your wife is awesome.
i’m lucky
that’s pretty funny. well played.
… my wife, with no prompting, said “or, if you’re the mets, 29 days to catchers”
Wait, the Mets have catchers? Since when?
Even more well played.
Why do i get this strange feeling that we are going to get into a bidding war with the mets over a very mediocre pitcher later this month… We are both eyeing the same guys now looking around in the middle or lower part of the barrel at the high risk/high reward players. Going after Oli perez would be a HUGE mistake right now as the yanks would have to give him more than three years and probably way more considering how much the mets are going to need him. Garcia is a high risk/low reward player so he makes zero sense. I
f he is healthy he probably wont even be that good and he has rarely been healthy over the past two seasons – his best attribute used to be his ability to pitch 200 innings. What are his positives now? His ability to look like The Rock. Garland is the better version of the old garcia at this point and coming off career lows meaning we can get him while his value is low. While i do think that garland should be the last resort option after pettitte negotiations have been exhausted to no avail and sheets will take no less than 2 years and the yanks cannot trade nady and prospects for any one with a decent arm capable of 200 innings,
I also think garland is guaranteed to give us 200 innings and most likely to have a come back year. He also could be had on the cheap is we act fast. I would rather take pettitte for up to 13 mil, sheets for less than 2 years and 10 mil and many pitchers via trade. Garcia and oli shouldnt even be options for the yanks – if they want to be cheap with this last signing, just sign garland and call it a day. No need to go crazy for oli or sign garcia for any amount of money when their are way better options still left on the FA market.
Step back from the ledge.
The Yankees will not be signing Oliver Perez or Jon Garland to anything. It’s not happening, we’re not that dumb or desperate.
I was thinking about Garland the other day, and was getting ready to write up a post about why he’d be a good buy for one year in the #4 spot, but once I looked at the numbers … terrible.
Stats the last 3 years (’06, ’07, ’08):
FIP: 4.35, 4.36, 4.76
BBper9: 1.75, 2.46, 2.70
Kper9: 4.77, 4.23, 4.12
Strikes %: 64.8, 63.6, 63.2
IP/start: 6.6, 6.5, 6.2
Contact %: 91.4, 91.2, 91.1
WAR: 42.8, 37.6, 21.0
Everything, literally EVERYTHING is going in the wrong direction. If that doesn’t say pass, I don’t know what does.
Wait, you left something out.
“Everything, literally EVERYTHING is going in the wrong direction and it was crappy to begin with in the first place. If that doesn’t say pass, I don’t know what does.”
Fixed.
Some guy was arguing with me that Brett and Melky were more talented than Youk and Dusty. I have a dislike as much as any Yankee fan for Youk and Pedroia but I am trying to be realistic. He said Pedroia/Youk are no more than utility players without Manny in the lineup, I proved him wrong with the stats after Manny left but he totally ignores it lol.
Jackasses on youtube who post videos.
Why bother to ague with someone like that. No matter what, they won’t listen to you. Waste of time…pass!
Definitely, all he tells me is that he watched the games and Youk and Pedroia looked shitty after Manny left. Lol, but that is when they got better.
Anyone else noticed that if Santana and K-Rod hit their incentives in the contracts, the two don’t look as sweet anymore. Santana only has to win a Cy Young or finish 2nd or 3rd twice more to make his 25 million dollar option in 2014 a player option. There’s also some innings pitched numbers that could trigger it too. His whole deal would be 7 for 162.5 then.
K-Rod has to finish 55 games in 2010, 100 combined between 2010-2011 and pass a physical and he gets a guaranteed 4th year at 17.5 million, making his contract 4 years and 54.5 mil.
No one is reporting on these when they talk about the deals, even though they aren’t unreachable. Just like I mentioned higher up in this thread, Magglio Ordonez gets a guaranteed 33 million over 2 years if he has 125 starts or 520 or so AB’s. That’s a nice kick up in guaranteed money, despite guys like Gammons mentioning him possibly being available this summer. I wouldn’t count on it.
Mag-Pipes would have to get hurt early, so he wouldn’t make those marks and then get healthy for the deadline.
17.5M for any year of K-Rod…. no thanks
K-Rod has to finish 55 games in 2010, 100 combined between 2010-2011 and pass a physical and he gets a guaranteed 4th year at 17.5 million, making his contract 4 years and 54.5 mil.
Man, if I’m Jerry Manuel, I’m holding an open competition for the closer’s role. The second that JJ Putz is healthy, he’s the closer and K-Rod is his setup man. I don’t give a shit about his hurt feelings or fat contract. I’m making Putz the closer just to keep K-Rod from making that games finished escalator in his contract so I’m not plagued by his walk-the-bases-loaded bullcrap any longer than I have to be.
k rod is a bit over-rated but he is going to be downright nasty in the NL. And him along with putz – i still dunno why the mets fans are constantly whining and crying about their lack of an off season. Omar took the mets biggest weakness last season and made it into the best pen in the NL with two moves. And disproved the constant rumor that teams cant get two closers because of ego and a decrease in salary. If the yanks signed a closer to pitch the eighth, we would all be jumping for joy. But the met fan… they are complaining that they didnt get an almost 36 year old lowe inked to the age of 39 or beyond for 15 million per season or more. They should be thanking omar for not signing lowe rather than blaming him for not getting lowe.
Mike,
Wow. I didnt realize garland’s peripheral numbers were a trend. I thought he just had one off year. It is surprising because he isnt all that old so you would not expect a drop-off like that quite yet. At only 29, he is still young enough to turn it around though so a very small contract would not be the worst signing in the world – I am talking 3 mil or so. His 2007 season was not nearly as bad as his 2008 season and I would think (this is based on personal opinion) that at the age of 29, he could turn himself around and get back to the stellar numbers he put up in 2005 or at least the ones he put up in 2007 which would give us 6 to 7 innings of 3 runs ball most times out. With out offense, he could win 10 to 15 games easy. The reason i mainly think garland is worth the risk is because of his age and his consistency. hE HAS had 7 straight seasons of 32 starts or more and 191 innings or more. How many players can say that? For what our needs are, he would appear to be a cheap alternative to pettitte if he reverts to 2007 status. A 4.23 era for the fifth starter role or even the fourth isnt too bad and 200 innings and 15 wins from that spot is pretty damn solid. Its a gamble sure but no more of a gamble than pettitte for less money most likely.
Tommiesmithjohncarlos,
i LIKE how you said there is no way the yanks touch perez or garland when my post was about not getting perez or garcia. garcia is actually the worst signing of those three with the least upside, the most risk and the least chance on getting to 200 innings or even close. Pretty sly moving not saying the yanks are not touching this piece of garbage. Cashman has to be brain dead to sign garcia to a major league contract. He really does. Garcia not only doesnt help us but most likely he hurts us with a major league deal by taking up a roster spot to spend the season on the dl.
http://i435.photobucket.com/al.....Button.jpg
How do you do that?
Alt + Prntsc copies the current window to the clipboard.
Ctrl + Prntsc copies the entire screen.
And im not saying we should sign garland but i do think he is our fourth best option after pettitte, a trade for a 200 inning quality starter and sheets. Garland should be our last resort. Everyone else shouldnt even make the list.
I know I am probably the only guy who feels like this but I would take Garland over Sheets. There is a reason Sheets has not been heavily courted this offseason. A pitcher of his caliber would have been sought after more than he has. The reason is because there is something really wrong with his arm. Think about it, the Braves gave 23 million to that japanese pitcher but did not even touch Sheets when he probably could have been had for that price. And Kawakami is a complete unknown and probably will never be as good as Sheets could be. There is a reason teams aren’t going after him hard, even the Brew crew isn’t and they probably know more than everyone else. Garland at 9 mill would be a better addition in my opinion than Sheets at 1 year and 12 million. Garland is going to give you those innings and even if Hughes/Kennedy/Aceves is pitching amazing, teams would look at Garland to trade for. He would not have much money left and he could help a team dealing with an injured pitcher down the stretch run.
Id rather take 180 innings out of Garland than 40 to 50 out of Sheets. Plus if you sign Sheets and he goes down, then AJ goes down our rotation is crap and we will be in a real bad spot.
But hold on… Why is it a Sheets vs Garland decision? I’d prefer to sign nobody if the only option on the market is Garland. Jon Garland is garbage.
How is garland garbage? He was horrible last season but he is only 29. Last season could have been a bump in the road or an off year or he could have been slightly injured but well enough to try and pitch through it. He is a great control pitcher and his walks went significantly up at age 29 which tells me maybe something went wrong with his mechanics which could be fixed. But most 29 year olds dont all of a sudden dramatically regress without reason after 7 consecutive years of consistency. And we need another pitcher to help us the fill the 1000 innings next year by the starting staff.
Aceves can replace joba and hughes can start at some point with kennedy or coke replacing him but what about an injury?? Who steps in for that? Im not saying garland is the best option but he is a good last resort if we cant get pettitte or make a trade. His career has been nothing but a decent quality innings eater outside of last season – thas really all we need to fill the void in the rotation. And really pettitte is just a big a risk as garland and really fills the same need but is significantly older and costs more. Garland pitched fantastically only 4 years ago in 2005 and at 29 years, there is no reason to think he cant do that again.
I’m not going to bother doing much legwork on this one, Mike did enough earlier: http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-258226
Mike,
I agree with you in a sense. Garland is far, far less risky than sheets and fills our specific need better so you are probably right but imagine a healthy sheets in our rotation. And actually the brew crew is one of the few teams that has shown significant interest in re-signing sheets. Them and the rangers are the only ones who still appear interested. So to me, that implies that the brewers think sheets is worth another contract and as you said, the brewers know him better than any one so why not trust their assessment? The argument can also be made that the brewers are more desperate for pitching and maybe more willing to take a risk but they need another pitcher so signing sheets to them would be as big a risk as signing sheets would be to us.
The reason I said i agree with you in a sense, is because you stated a salary you did not want sheets for but you never made it clear at what price you would think garland is a better option. i think sheets for one year and less than 8 mil would be better than garland for any more than 6 mil. Although garland is all but guaranteed to give us 30 starts the question is more how good will those starts be while sheet’s question is how many starts will he make so both have inherent risk. Garland has just a good of a chance as repeating last years horrible numbers as he does of improving and he had no injury that i know of to indicate that his numbers were anything other than his skill declining. So if garland can be had based on last years numbers for a very reasonable price or even a bargain perhaps, he would be the better signing. But if sheets could be had based on his significant risk for a one year/8 mil contract – i think his price makes his risk worthwhile.
And you said imagine if sheets and burnett both get hurt next year. But it is the same if burnett gets hurt and garland is as ineffective as last season or if burnett gets hurt and we never signed any one to fill the fifth starter spot. But imagine the yanks with the sheets of last season pitching 200 innings of ball. The yanks would have the best rotation in decades and be pretty much unbeatable. And the fact is, we dont need 200 innings of sheets. 8 mil is about worth the price of half of a season of an effective sheets. So if he goes down midseason with injury, we essentially got our moneys worth and then, hughes could take over as he should be ready to enter the majors by that point and aceves can take over for joba. Sheets would have filled our need and done his job. But you are right, at a bargain price, garland can fit our need very well also. I am on board with either signing as long as it is for a reasonable price and one year.
Good points Dave. In my post I said Garland at 9 but w.e it’s all good. The Brewers have shown significant interest? I heard Melvin said he would like to bring him back but he has to say that, as far as we know there have been no “serious” contract offers out for Sheets, if there had been offers I think we would have heard bout them. But maybe not, doesn’t really matter. I am on board like you, we can bring either in for the right price. But maybe let Hughes/Aceves/Kennedy fight for it and that could be bettter for the team.
Well i thiink we definitely need to sign another arm no matter who it is. See my post to ranger at the end of the thread for the reason why if you want – it takes forever to explain my theory but it makes sense in the end that we need another starter. Sorry i didnt see that garland offer for some reason – i think 9 is a bit high considering we wont give andy more than 10 and that is partly for the memories and history. I dont like Garland for more than 6 – maybe 7 tops. Melvin has not offered a contract as far as I know but i think sheets like pettitte is trying to wait it out for all the pitchers better than him to sign and see who gets desperate for a pitcher with ace potential. Melvin said that he doesnt see the brewers signing another arm but he would definitely consider re-signing sheets so to me, that seems like decent interest even though I havent heard an offer. In fact, I havent even heard an asking price for sheets, an offer or a single mention of a dollar amount in over a month since the yanks were planning on a possible 2 year 30 mil offer that never happened. It is wierd that there isnt even a range for him right now but i guess it is a very strange situation for a guy that pitched 200 innings to a 3 era and starter the all star game to be considered THIS RISKY. I dont think there is much precedent with this situation.
The Yankee’s farm system started to turn around with Eric Duncan. It’s too bad he can’t get it together.
200 innings, 200 innings is all I see here (from some), 200 innings of 4.65 era ball just ain’t gon-a do-it!
How about 250 innings from two pitchers at about 4.00 or less? Between the two of them (Aceves and Phil) it can be done. Both of them have to show they are ready come ST or Cash will have to do his magic act. We also have a couple others that can contribute, Coke, Giese and maybe even IPK and Mac.
Old ranger,
Its like this next year the way i figure. Lets say we dont sign any one. We start the year with CC, wang, AJ, Joba and Aceves. After throwing 150 innings for joba and 170 for aceves they can be replaced by Hughes and Kennedy for the rest of the season. And joba may still be able to start in the playoffs. So this is an excellent scenario – it is also ideal. CC has thrown 500 innings in the last two years so he has risk. Wang is coming off a major injury so he has more risk.
AJ has NEVER in his nine and a half year career been healthy for two consecutive seasons for he has tremendous risk. Joba and hughes both missed significant time with injury too last season. What is the probability that every one of these guys will stay healthy for all of next season? I dont want to get into any in depth math so lets just say very slim to almost none. We have coke who the yanks claim will start the season as a starter but that does little to help us if he moves right back to the pen and he isnt starting over joba or aceves/hughes so he will move right back to the pen. Geise is probably not good enough to start and will be in the pen or in the minors. So there goes our depth without a single injury covered. And this is assuming all of the young guys pitch effectively in the majors and minors next season.
That is a HUGE assumption for everyone except joba considering all of them have barely pitched in the majors for any significant length of time. So now we are forced to delve even deeper into the minors to get pitchers to start in the majors for injuries and ineffectiveness as not a single person has been identified to cover all of these potential holes in the rotation. I dont think sanchez is ready and wright has shown us how little we can rely on him but these are the guys we will be forced to turn to. And if we have one injury and one younger player is ineffective, we are already forced to make a trade or sign someone to plug the hole ala. sidney ponson circa 2008. This is why we need another starting pitcher signed. There is no doubt the first sign of injury will be a disaster unless we have at least four starters capable of throwing 200 innings with the young guys outside of joba only starting out as depth. Then, aceves becomes our spot starter/injury replacement. Hughes fills in for joba when he hits his high water mark.
Kennedy, jason johnson, sanchez, jackson, giese, Coke and the others are still around for dire emergencies none of whom should ever make it to the rotation next year outside of kennedy. So essentially instead of being slotted into the rotation at some point from the start, aceves and kennedy becomes the crucial depth that we need in the event of injury or ineffectiveness. We can potentially have two injuries to say AJ and hughes at the same time and after joba has already hit his innings limit and still be okay with a rotation of CC, wang, Whoever we sign (pettitte lets say), Aceves and kennedy. Therefore, the injuries wouldnt be crushing blows as that is still a pretty solid, competitive rotation.
The whole assumption is that we will have injuries to guys for more then one or two starts and more then one pitcher at a time! Pitchers health has (and will always be) a very tenuous situation but, one can’t go through life expecting the worse. Granted, one must have a plain “B”, that is the way life is…one must plan for everything, within reason. It would be nice to have another pitcher for the #5 spot but, who out there is better then a healthy Phil or Aceves…potentially?
If we lose lets say CC and aj to injury the situation becomes much more precarious but it could turn out to be a rotation of wang, pettitte, Joba, Hughes and Aceves or if joba is done for the regular season Wang, pettitte, Hughes, Aceves, Kennedy. This would probably be the worst case scenario – it would be an absolute disaster without signing another arm but with pettitte in tow in this mock scenario, we still have a reasonably competitive rotation and if kennedy or hughes struggles, we still have a couple of other guys in triple A to help out for a start or two before we can trade for another starter. Certainly difficult but not unmanageable.
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