Open Thread: Tex vs Youk


Yes, this is in direct response to the four year, $40M+ deal Kevin Youkilis agreed to today, which bought out his two remaining arbitration years and two free agent years, with an option to cover a third. As you can imagine, Sox fans are now out in full force claiming that Youk is better than Mark Teixeira  because he spurned them for greener pastures (I’m looking at you, Fire Brand), which is just not true. Let’s break it down.

Here’s Youkilis’ stats over the last three years:

2006: .279-.381-.429, 42 2B, 13 HR, 72 RBI, .357 wOBP, 106 OPS+, 2.3 WAR, 18.6 VORP
2007: .288-.390-.453, 35 2B, 16 HR, 85 RBI, .373 wOBP, 117 OPS+, 3.9 WAR, 29.6 VORP
2008: .312-.390-.569, 43 2B, 29 HR, 115 RBI, .402 wOBP, 143 OPS+, 5.6 WAR, 53.6 VORP

And now, Tex:

2006: .282-.371-.514, 45 2B, 33 HR, 110 RBI, .374 wOBP, 126 OPS+, 3.2 WAR, 37.7 VORP
2007: .306-.400-.563, 33 2B, 30 HR, 105 RBI, .406 wOBP, 150 OPS+, 4.0 WAR, 54.0 VORP
2008: .308-.410-.552, 41 2B, 33 HR, 121 RBI, .410 wOBP, 151 OPS+, 6.8 WAR, 67.2 VORP

To get Tex’s VORP in ’07 and ’08, I just added his VORP totals for the two teams he played with those seasons. So ’07 is VORP (Rangers) + VORP (Braves), and ’08 is VORP (Braves) + VORP (Angels). I know this isn’t 100% accurate because a AL replacement level 1B is different than a NL RL 1B, but it’s close enough for this application. I mean, what are we talking about here, maybe a 4-5% error?

Anywho, let’s average these bad boys out:

Youk: .292-.387-.483, 40 2B, 19 HR, 90 RBI, .377 wOBP, 122 OPS+, 3.9 WAR, 33.9 VORP
Tex: .298-.393-.541, 40 2B, 32 HR, 112 RBI, .397 wOBP, 142 OPS+, 4.7 WAR, 53.0 VORP

In the words of Mr. Mackey, mmmkay. Tex has considerably more power and slightly better on base skills, although it’s probably a negligible difference. Youkilis had a 143 OPS+ in a career year last year, which is basically the same as Tex’s average output over the last years. Also, that 143 OPS+ would be just the fourth best OPS+ Tex has put up over the last five years. It’s obvious Tex has been an elite player for a much longer period of time, which makes it easier to project future performance. In fact, let’s check out what CHONE projects for 2009:

Youkilis: .286-.388-.474, 35 2B, 18 HR, 79 RBI, 3.9 WAR
Teixeira:  .286-.381-.521, 33 2B, 32 HR, 108 RBI, 5.4 WAR

Heh, I’m sure some fans with boo Tex for that “subpar” performance, even though he’ll still be better than Youk. Here’s some other small factors that are also worth noting:

  • Tex is thirteen months younger
  • Neither player has a significant platoon split, but Tex is a switch hitter
  • Both players are Gold Glover caliber first basemen
  • Youkilis can slide over to third without incident, Tex hasn’t played third since 2003

Now, obviously Kevin Youkilis is an excellent player, there’s no denying that. And for ~$10M a year, he’s a bargain. Based on the above however, I don’t see any way you can claim Youkilis is a better player, unless you really believe last year was a true breakout year and he’ll produce like that for the next three or four years while Tex plateaus at a .280-.370-.510 level.

Also, I know some people are comparing contracts, but you can’t do that because Youkilis wasn’t a free agent. He didn’t have the leverage of going to another team and shopping his services to the highest bidder like Tex did, but if he did you can be sure he wouldn’t have settled for 4/40. There’s no doubt Youk is more cost effective, but Tex is the better player on the field.

Here’s your open thread. Chat away.

Categories : Open Thread


  1. Matt says:

    I bought my Tex shirt at Modells on Monday. I was very excited.

    Go Huskies!

  2. Ol Dirtay says:

    Plus, Tex isn’t a ginormous douche. So he’s got that going for him.

    • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

      I can not STAND Youk, but maybe that is a good thing if the other team and their fans can not stand you.

      He is the only player that I want to see get plunked every time he gets up. I want Joba brought in for every Youk at bat. He is a heck of a baseball player though, even though he looks like a guy who eats at cheap all you can eat spots and comes out ahead in the deal.

      • Ol Dirtay says:

        I follow. I imagine he’s what Paul O’Neill was to Sawx fans…an intense competitor who was sometimes a crybaby.
        The thing is, I don’t remember O’Neill throwing a hissy fit anytime anyone threw at him. He got plunked, took his base and just got a hit the next time. Youk has to let everyone know that he almost got hit and do it in the most insanely irritating way possible. He’s almost as bad as Varitek, the baddest man on the planet when wearing catchers gear.

        • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

          I agree Osirus. Paulie was a crybaby a lot but it was more at himself. Bernie cried about 3rd strikes a lot. Shef would yell about them. But yeah Youk and getting a ball close to him he goes into a sissy fit rage. I really can not stand both Tek and Youk and I like to see both of them brushed back and or hit as much as needed.

          One thing I liked about Farnsworth and I like about Joba is they were not the sissy that Moose and some other Yanks pitchers have been in the recent past about brushing guys back and or hitting them when need be. Also I never saw a guy even look at Farnsworth while on the Yankees, not once. Guess they saw him mash out a few people while with Detroit the first time.

          Shimmy shimmy yall.

      • Matt says:

        Ha, agreed. I can’t stand Youk but if he were a Yankee, I’d love him. He’s a damn fine ball player.

        And he has a grit beard.

  3. D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

    Not sure I see that Tex is a better player. I need to see him play every day to decide that for myself. The Sox are very good at getting their guys to sign team friendly contracts, something nobody has done over here as of yet.

    I wonder how Mike Lowell is feeling right about now.

    • Bruno says:

      Not sure I see that Tex is a better player.

      You’re just pissed his name isn’t Donnie Baseball (whom he happened to idolize).

      • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

        Why would I be “pissed”? That is rather silly. All I said is I have not seen the guy play 162 games yet. He has played for teams mostly out of my time zone so I saw him play infrequently compared to the amount of times I have seen Youk play in a season.

        I know it is an odd concept here but I prefer to see a guy play a ton before I really say he is better than a guy who might have been the best all around baseball player in the American league last year.

        Youk is maybe my least favorite player in baseball on my least favorite team of all time in any sport or really anything on earth so I am not leaning toward favoring Youk out of bias.

        I just said that I cant call it yet.

        Ok Bruno?

        • Matt says:

          “I know it is an odd concept here but I prefer to see a guy play a ton before I really say he is better than a guy who might have been the best all around baseball player in the American league last year.”

          Who compared him to Albert Pujols? ;-)

  4. Matt says:

    For the record, 06-08 UZR/150

    2.8, 9.4, 5.0

    -1.5, -4.3, 10.1

  5. D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

    Since this is the open thread….

    audio of Don Mattingly on Dan Patrick talking about hitting, the Hall of Fame, PED’s etc (said that Dale Murphy and Andre Dawson were better baseball players than Sammy Sosa)


    Rickey talking about Rickey and the greatest quote ever on the WBC


    just a couple good things I read / heard today

    • Matt says:

      I don’t think I’d vote for Dale Murphy.

      • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

        Not sure I would either but I do agree he was a better baseball player than Sammy Sosa. He was also a better baseball player than Mark McGwire but nobody will agree with me on that one.

        Dawson better get in next year.

        • Matt says:

          I am still no where near sold on Andre Dawson.

          But I’ll straight murder if Blyleven doesn’t get in.

          And TSJC got me on the Tim Raines bandwagon.

          • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

            I would never vote for Blyleven.
            Dawson without question is better than most of the guys who have gotten in the last few years.

            Tim Raines is a no brainer. Both Dawson and Raines main problem is having played their best baseball in a town that nobody watched baseball in, or cared about it. Most people outside of there did not care about them either. The oddest weirdest place I have ever watched any games. I love Montreal but it was not a great baseball city.

            • Matt says:

              Why no vote for Blyleven? So help me if it’s the damn 20 win season thing. He played for AWFUL teams and had AWFUL run support for his entire career.


              “Rich Lederer, a baseball analyst and historian, studied Blyleven’s career and estimates that if he had received even league-average run support, his record would be closer to 313-224 than his 287-250.”

              If it’s all the losses, let’s see here…

              1971: 15 losses w/2.81 ERA
              1972: 17 losses w/2.73 ERA
              1973: 17 losses w/2.52 ERA
              1974: 17 losses w/2.66 ERA
              1976: 16 losses w/2.87 ERA (3.12 w/Min, 2.76 w/Tex)
              1980: 13 losses w/3.82 ERA
              1985: 16 losses w/3.16 ERA (3.25 w/Cle, 3.00 w/Min)
              1986: 14 losses w/4.01 ERA
              1988: 17 losses w/5.43 ERA

              He was top ten in K/9 FOURTEEN TIMES! He was in the top ten for strikeouts FIFTEEN TIMES and is FIFTH on the all-time list. He was top ten in K/BB SIXTEEN TIMES.

              He had an ERA above 4.00 only five times out of 22 seasons, and two of those times were 4.01.

              So, what didn’t he do to prove he’s an HOFer?

              • A.D. says:

                17 losses with a 2.52 ERA…jeeez

              • Matt says:

                Oh and if you like playoff stats:

                8 games, 6 starts, 2.47 ERA, 5-1, 36 K, 8 BB.

                • Dan says:

                  It always ticks me off when guys say that they would put Jack Morris in the Hall over Blyleven because he was a “big game pitcher.” They completely ignore the fact that Bert won two WS rings as well.

                • Matt says:

                  Ugh, I know.

                  Here’s something those people probably don’t know. In 4970 innings, Blyleven walked 1322 batters. In 3824 innings, Jack Morris walked 1390 batters.

              • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

                Bert B to me never was THE guy. I do not think he ever was the best guy in the league. I think he was a very good pitcher who pitched for a lot of years.

                To me he was a compiler. I understand the other argument, I just do not agree with it.

                • Matt says:

                  What do you mean he wasn’t THE guy? What does that even mean? How is he a compiler when he was top ten in K/9 FOURTEEN TIMES! He was in the top ten for strikeouts FIFTEEN TIMES and is FIFTH on the all-time list. He was top ten in K/BB SIXTEEN TIMES. That’s out of 22 years.

                  14/22: 63% of his career on the K/9 leaderboard
                  15/22: 68% of his career on the K leaderboard
                  16/22: 72% of his career on the K/BB leaderboard

                  How is that compiling? It’s not like he was racking up numbers without being at the top of the league.

            • Matt says:

              Also, who do you think Dawson is “without question” better than? I think he an Rice are almost a toss up, with a slight edge to Rice; Rickey is better than Dawson.

              Dawson is definitely not better than Gwynn or Ripken.

              I’m very “meh” on Sutter.

              Boggs > Dawson

              Dawson and Sandberg are about equal, but Sandberg’s position makes him the better candidate, IMO.

              So, who is he better than, without question?

              • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

                Dawson was a much better all around baseball player in his peak years than Boggs ever was. Really as much of a fan of Gwynn as I am he was not as good of an all around player as Dawson was in his peak. Gwynn is a terrific hitter and did well in other areas during times in his career.

                Ripken while a great player for a short period of time and a very good to ok player for a very long time, is still to me the most over rated position player of my lifetime if not ever.

                I can understand why some people think Dawson does not belong in the Hall. He does not have the amount of Black Ink most sluggers in the Hall should have in my book as well.

                A lot of my arguments with guys and their worthiness of the Hall is really what you base getting in the Hall of Fame on. Is it the top tier once in a generation player? Or is it two or three guys a year get in because they were known and had some compilation of career numbers?

                If it is based off of these magic numbers then I think guys that were better ballplayers than they were should be in as well.

                • Matt says:

                  “Dawson was a much better all around baseball player in his peak years than Boggs ever was.”

                  Boggs was a much better hitter than Dawson. Better BA, better OBP, better, OPS, better OPS+,.310 EQA (.285 for Dawson)…It’s hard to compare across positions but Boggs is much better at the plate and I’ll take that advantage over a corner outfielder every day.

                  “Really as much of a fan of Gwynn as I am he was not as good of an all around player as Dawson was in his peak. Gwynn is a terrific hitter and did well in other areas during times in his career.”

                  Gwynn won 7 GGs. Better BA, better OBP, better OPS, better OPS+…

                  “Ripken while a great player for a short period of time and a very good to ok player for a very long time, is still to me the most over rated position player of my lifetime if not ever.”

                  I was on the Ripken as overrated side but the dude completely revolutionized the shortstop position. He was a fantastic fielder and a fantastic hitter for a damn long time. Cal Ripken was infinitely more valuable than Andre Dawson.

                  “Is it the top tier once in a generation player?”

                  If it’s Cal Ripken, yes. He revolutionized the SS position from all-field no hit to all field and all hit. He set the tone for guys like Rodriguez, Jeter, Tejada, Garciaparra…

                • Mike A. says:

                  Beat me too it. Before Ripken, shortstops were all short, fast twitch glove guys that couldn’t hit water if they fell out of the boat.

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

                  Ripken did revolutionize the postion but does that make him an all time top player of the Ruth, Cobb, Mantle, Mays class of player? No.

                  I am not saying Ripken does not belong in the Hall, but he is still over rated.

                  I think if the Hall of Fame had been kept to the super duper cream of the crop, I would have preferred it and we could not argue as much on who belongs in or not.

                  As far as Boggs goes. If he played in a park that was not Fenway his numbers would have been drastically different. Also giving him defensive props because he played 3rd is not correct. The man was one of the worst defensive 3rd baseman in baseball for many years.

                  Dawson was a much more comlete player than Boggs. Boggs was the slowest guy in MLB, a hack at 3rd for a good portion of his time in the game and had no real power. Dawson had speed before his knees went, a CANNON for an arm, and was a great bopper.

                  But arguing Dawson vs Boggs is rather silly. My point is although he did not have 500 homers, he still should be in the Hall. If he had gotten 500 he would have been in, and the different in where he is to 500 is not enough to keep him out. Another reason I hate magic numbers.

                  Gwynn was a great player, but some of thos gold gloves were off of reputation and his hitting, and him being a very nice man. Gwynn def belongs in the Hall and if I had to vote for Gwynn or Dawson I vote for Gwynn.

                • Matt says:

                  “Ripken did revolutionize the postion but does that make him an all time top player of the Ruth, Cobb, Mantle, Mays class of player? No.”

                  Yes, it does. He played absolutely great defense at the second hardest defensive position and added very good offense for a long time. Obviously he’s not as good as those four but there are like..maybe one players better than those guys.

                  “I think if the Hall of Fame had been kept to the super duper cream of the crop, I would have preferred it and we could not argue as much on who belongs in or not.”

                  And Andre Dawson is most definitely not the cream of the crop.

                  As for Gwynn, his hitting alone would make me take him over Dawson, and the same with Boggs. Those guys didn’t just get hits but they also knew what a walk was. Their on-base skills definitely out weigh the power that Dawson brought. Gwynn also had more 30+ SB seasons than Dawson.

        • Matt says:

          Without going too deep into this, Murphy and Mattingly were essentially the exact same player.

          • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

            I think you must not have been around to see these guys play. While both were great during their peak years and really the best players in baseball for their peak, other than that they had not a whole lot in common.

            Murphy just played too long. Donnie did not play long enough and had a drop off because of his back injury.

            Murphy was a right handed hitter and played mostly OF and also played a good number of games at first and was a decent catcher when he came up.

            Donnie was a different kind of player but I think you were talking “career magic number” not actually the kind of player they were.

            • Matt says:

              I’m not taling about any “magic number” because I think magic numbers in baseball are stupid and losing their significance (see: Craig Biggio + 3K hits).

              Based on their numbers, they’re almost the same exact player–really great peaks, though, for both.

              • the most felonious vocalist in the wide world of showbusiness says:

                Matt, you seem like a smart poster. Do you not think Craig Biggio is a Hall of Famer? If so, research it. You’ll be persuaded very quickly.

                • Matt says:

                  I have done the research, and I don’t think he is.

                  He had some fantastic years. I mean, from 94-99, he was awesome. But before that and after that, he was average to slightly above average. He just hung on for a very, very long time. I do not think he is a Hall of Famer.

                • Matt says:

                  111 OPS+…meh.

                  .285 career EQA…not bad at all, but not HOF.

                  .355 wOBA…again, not bad but that’s not HOF.

                • Mike A. says:

                  Biggio should be a first ballot HOFer. He had a ten year stretch as a 110+ OPS+ player at multiple up the middle positions, then settled into league avg production during his decline years.

                  Holding on shouldn’t count against him.

                • Matt says:

                  He settled into league average for the last 8 years of his career. That’s a hell of a decline period…

                • the most felonious vocalist in the wide world of showbusiness says:

                  You’re also discounting his HBP and lack of GIDP which are relatively small things but Biggio was tremendous in both categories for much of his career.

                • Matt says:

                  HBP gets factored into his OBP.

                  And if you’re putting a guy into the HOF for getting hit by pitches and not grounding into double plays….

                • the most felonious vocalist in the wide world of showbusiness says:

                  Sorry, HBP is part of OBP. Ignoring his >150 PA first season, Biggio had 3034 hits, 1153 BB’s and 285 HBP’s in his last 19 seasons. That’s an average of 160 hits, 61 BB’s, and 15 HBP’s or 236 times on base. He did not get to 3,000 by hanging on too long.

                  Also, of his top 10 similar batters, 7 are Hall of Famers and the other 3 are Roberto Alomar (who deserves to get in next season), Lou Whitaker (who was easily the best AL 2nd baseman for roughly a decade and deserves election) and Ivan Rodriguez (who will be elected when he’s eligible). I’m not in love with Similarity Scores but when everyone similar to the guy is in the Hall of Fame, they are worthwhile.

                  He also scores a 55.9 on the Hall of Fame Standards test where the average HOF scores 50. When elected, he will be better than the average Hall of Famer. I never really liked the guy, but Craig Biggio is a no brainer.

                • the most felonious vocalist in the wide world of showbusiness says:

                  Last thing, Bill James in his New Historical Baseball Abstract ranked Biggio as the 35th best player of all-time. The end.

                • Matt says:

                  “He also scores a 55.9 on the Hall of Fame Standards test where the average HOF scores 50. When elected, he will be better than the average Hall of Famer. I never really liked the guy, but Craig Biggio is a no brainer.”

                  If you’re gonna use those things…

                  Black Ink: 17 (avg. HOFer: 27)
                  Gray Ink: 104 (avg. HOFer: 144)

                  As for the Bill James thing, that’s one of the few things in the NHBA that I disagree with.

                  Craig Biggio was a good player. He was great from 1994-1999. Before that and after that, he was an average to above average player.

                  His high OPS+ since 2000 was 110 and he has been under 100 5 times this decade. I understand there’s such a thing as a decline period but to have one for 8 seasons…That’s not a decline period, that’s a negative trend. Over the last 8 years, his BA has been .265. Reaching 3,000 hits when you’ve had a BA of .265 for the better part of the decade is the definition of hanging on.

                • the most felonious vocalist in the wide world of showbusiness says:

                  The Hall of Fame Standards is the only that measures how deserving a player is rather than how likely he is to get in. Grey Ink and Black Ink are especially unkind to players at demanding defensive positions. The rampant steroid use in Biggio’s era also plays into this, setting the average OPS and the number required to lead the league in a category artificially high. Also, OPS+ ignores positional differences. Batting average is really dumb and should never be relied on by someone of your caliber.

                  And if you think Bill James was wrong to rank Biggio as the 35th best player of all time, how wrong was he? Was he off by 50? 100? He’d have to be off by more than 150 before you can begin debating his HOF candidacy.

                  So far, all your arguments go back to the idea that Biggio wasn’t that good his last 8 seasons. How do you feel about the first 11? I’m not being sarcastic or dismissive here, I want to know if you think he was on a Hall of Fame track in 2000 and fell off because of his last 8 seasons or if you think he was short then and didn’t do enough over his last seasons to make up the difference.

                • Matt says:

                  “. Batting average is really dumb and should never be relied on by someone of your caliber.”

                  Yea, I know. I was watching “The Office” and didn’t feel like calculating OBP/SLG. But at the same time, when we’re talking about hits, I’m gonna throw BA out there since it measures…hits.

                  Your point about OPS+ is definitely well-taken. But what about things like EQA and wOBA which normalize for league average and park (EQA only) where he’s only slightly above average?

                  The first 11:

                  1988-1993: Average to above average
                  1994-1999: Fantastic.
                  2000-2007: Average to below average.

                  I think he had six seasons of incredible baseball surrounded by 14 of below to above average baseball. If he had continued on a pace like he had in 94-99, sure fire HOFer. So, yeah, I think he was on track for an HOF career then just had an almost decade long decline. That’s a REALLY long decline. If it was like…3-4 years of decline, fine. I’d probalby like his HOF candidacy better if he didn’t stick around to get 3K hits.

                • the most felonious vocalist in the wide world of showbusiness says:

                  I’m not sure about wOBA but EQA does not adjust for position. For what it’s worth WARP1 (which does make a positional adjustment) is much kinder to him.

                  To illustrate the importance of positional adjustments consider the following. Craig Biggio had the same OPS+ of 104 in 2004 and 2005. In 2004, Biggio played 83 games in left, 66 in center and 1 at DH. In 2005, he played 141 games at 2B and 5 at DH. His WARP1 scores those two seasons were 3.5 and 5.6.

                • the most felonious vocalist in the wide world of showbusiness says:

                  I appreciate your consistency Matt. You had to be convinced on Raines and I don’t think you support Trammell so you must be a small Hall guy. If you were supporting Dawson or somebody it would be a lot harder for me to understand your position against Biggio.

                • Matt says:

                  Once I listened to the points about Raines, I was like “Damn, dude was great.” Trammell I’m not totally sure on. Heyman had a good little bit about him that had me swaying, but I’m not quite sure.

                  I’m like, 99% no on Dawson. I’ve really yet to hear a solid argument for him other than “he played the game the right way” which is basically “I don’t have the numbers to back this up so I’m going to make something up.” It’s the same thing with Rice being “the most feared hitter of his time!1!!!!1!!”

                  WARP1 is nice but when comparing all time, I like to go all WARP3 on your ass, since it adjusts for all time rather than a single season. Using his 10 most comp. players per B-R–7 of which are HOFers and Robbie A will be–Biggio has fewer WARP3′s than all of them except 2–Brooks Robinson and Ryne Sandberg. BP’s WARP system also accounts for defense, no?

                • the most felonious vocalist in the wide world of showbusiness says:

                  WARP does account for defense. Biggio has a higher WARP2 and WARP3 than WARP in every one of his decline seasons. The main difference in the two statistics is that they adjust for the difficulty of the league which indicates that the 2000-2007 NL was a tough league.

                  Having a lower career WARP3 than the list of Biggio’s comparables is like being a lesser leadoff man than Rickey Henderson. If your comparables are 7 Hall of Famers, Robbie Alomar, Ivan Rodriguez and Lou Whitaker (whom many respected analysts believe should have been elected) then you’re probably a Hall of Famer.

                  The statement that originally started this discussion was that Biggio is not worthy despite having 3000 hits. Biggio was so good that he got 3000 hits and getting hits wasn’t really his strong suit. His strength was getting on base extremely well and hitting for above average power while playing a demanding defensive position.

                  The biggest weakness to Trammell’s case is that he was pretty inconsistent. He never even had 3 consecutive seasons of an OPS+ over 100. I would vote for him but I guess I can see the case against him. I feel like his career averages suffer from his being a full time player by the age of 20. Conversely, he never reached the automatic milestones despite this advantage. It all goes back to positional differences really. I feel like Trammell should be judged against other shortstops rather than broadly compared to other hitters. He’s probably one of the 10 or 12 best shortstops of all time so I’d put him in.

  6. Simon B. says:

    I’m surprised he would agree to that contract. You would figure he would make at least $10+ in arbitration this year.

    Boston did a good job here. No, he’s not as good as Tex, but he’s not that far off either.

    • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

      I really wonder how Boston keeps getting these guys to sign these sorts of deals. They got a nice super friendly discount deal from Brandon Arroyo and they repaid him by trading him as soon as they could (and the deal only got done because he was on a cheaper deal). Flash forward to this off season where they try to get players to effectively dump Mike Lowell after he signed a less than market value deal with them the previous year and right after he helps them win a WS and if I am not mistaken wins WS MVP.

      I just do not get why guys would give them these sorts of deals?

      My only conclusion is that Theo is either better than Cashman, or their players are dumber than ours?

      • Matt says:

        It’s because Pedroia and Youkilis basically have no leverage, as they obviously weren’t FAs–that or they just love Boston and will take the risk to keep playing there.

        • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

          Yeah but why did Lowell? They have the last 5 years gotten guys to take less than market deals there.

          I understand why a guy like Pedroia or Youkilis would do what they did. I would too. Why risk getting hurt, or the economy to collapse. That is more money than either of them will ever need in their life so why not sign it. I guess my question is why is our team not able to get the same type of “home team discount”

          Heck we want to over pay Pettitte to play for the only team he wants to play for and its not enough for him?

          You underdig my sentiment?

          • DP says:

            Lowell is making 12MM per year. I think he’s OK. The only better offer he got was from Philly. Maybe it was more about not wanting to play for Philly than wanting to play for Boston?

            • Matt says:

              He would’ve done well in Philly, I think.

              Small park, good lineup, etc.

              As for the Phillies, I don’t think they’ll repeat. Losing Burrell will probably hurt a lot more than they think. There’s little chance that Jamie Moyer can repeat what he did and aside from Hamels, their rotation is inconsistent at best. Myers is very up and down and Blaton’s tendency towards the long ball could hurt in CPB.

          • Bruno says:

            Our players haven’t signed those type of deals because we haven’t had any arb guys recently. Cano signed before last season. Wang, Joba, Hughes would be next in line that fit the criteria.

            • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

              Yes correct. I get that part of it, but how bout the veterans? Nobody seems to sign for less to come here. Supposedly Tex did, but I do not know if I buy that story.

          • whozat says:

            “Yeah but why did Lowell?”

            His previous three seasons were epically terrible, solid, and a career year. No one else was bidding on him. He was 33. His agent was trying to sell the Yanks on signing him for 1B in order to generate interest.

            And he still got 3/36.

            I think maybe your idea of “under market” is just skewed. The Yanks gave Posada the 4th year because the Mets were DROOLING at the opportunity to get their claws into him. They were desperate for a catcher and, for them, there is tangible marketing value to stealing a lifelong Yankee who is still productive.

      • A.D. says:

        Its the “dirty water” up there

    • A.D. says:

      3M to 10M would be quite the jump, I know he had a huge year, but still

  7. E-ROC says:

    Andruw Jones is suppose to be released today tomorrow by the Dodgers. What are the odds that he comes to Yankees on a minor league deal?

  8. The only thing Youk’s got over Teix is that he’s Jewish like me, and that doesn’t generally help you win baseball games.

    As my friend J. likes to say, we Jews got an entire pamphlet on our sports heroes…

  9. Malcard89 says:

    Unfortunately lets be realistic and fair: $40 mil for 4 years of Youk is a steal.

    Tex might be the better player, but at the cost, Red Sox came out on top. While Tex will put up better numbers over the 4 years than Youk will, he’s being paid double the price and will decline slightly (best case scenario) the last 4 years of his contract, at still the same ridiculous price. Whereas Youk’s contract will run out by then.

    I hate the red sox and Youk’s attitude, but i’ll tip my hat to them.

    • DP says:

      Does ANYBODY understand arbitration rules? He wasn’t a free agent. He made 3 million last year. Let’s say he would’ve gotten 6 mill this year, and 8 mill next. That means the next 2 years (the ONLY possible free agent years) are for 26 (13 per). I mean yeah he probably can make more than 13 a year at the age of 32 (can he?) but let’s leave the Theo blowjobs to Peter Gammons.

      • Steve H says:

        I understand it. You are 100% right. The fact that Tex was good enough to be in the majors in his early 20′s led to several million dollars more in his bank account. Youk wasn’t good enough at the same age to be called up and start his arb. clock. He was playing for a contending team, so if he was good enough, they would have brought him up. This isn’t the Rays(who ironically were contenders) keeping Longoria in the minors to save money. Youk in his absolute best year, probably a performance he may match, but won’t top, was as good as an average Tex year.

  10. Whitey14 says:

    Let me be the first Sox fan to weigh in. Mark Teixeira is the better ballplayer, Kevin Youkilis is the better value. Just my opinion, but the Sox will pay him less than half the money and should receive much more than half the numbers.

    • Manimal says:

      Redsox players think its fine to sign team friendly contracts, but in a MLB with out a salary cap, its just dumb. Take the money you earned. Pedroia and Youk are both MVP type players and they barely break 10 mill.

      • Mike A. says:

        I understand it, Youk’s set for life now. No worries at all. sure he could make more money by becoming a free agent, but he could get hurt/unexpectedly decline by then and lose out. I would have done the same thing he did, ditto Longorio, Tulo, etc.

        Take the security early, then when you hit free agency, go for the kill.

        • Mike Pop says:

          Agreed. I’d have no trouble signing that contract. I would definitely not lose sleep over it.

        • A.D. says:

          Plus they probably like playing their, the fans love their Sox & they have a chance to win titles

        • Manimal says:

          If you sign an extension, don’t you think you should get what your worth? If Tex got a 21ish per contract, don’t you think Youk could have asked for 15 mil atleast?

          • Steve H says:

            But Youk will be past his prime by the time he hits FA. He had to get his security now. He came up at a late age, which screwed his future earning power. If he hit FA for the first time at 32, past his prime, what would he get? Now factor in the risk of injury and regression, you jump on $40 mil guaranteed.

        • Thomas says:

          I don’t know if I agree with the set for life thing for Youk. He gave away the possibility of a lot of money for the sure thing of less money (though still a lot). However, with the money Youk was going to make in arbitration this year he would already be set for life and could possibly be even richer.

          Tulo and Longoria could have been hurt before ever reaching arbitration, so they are a different situation.

        • Randy says:

          he would theoretically be set for life after two arbitration cases also. i just don’t understand why they are taking such a big pay cut when you compared to what some team would have to pay in free agency. its a business and he does a damn good job at being productive in the workplace so why not cash in on your value?

          do you really think he can go for the kill at 34 and possibly 35 if they pick up the rumored option?

      • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

        So are they dumb? Or is our GM not good at his job? Or both?

        • whozat says:

          No…They’re under team control. They have NO leverage. Where are they going to go? The team owns them. EVERY deal that ANY player signs during his arbitration years is team friendly.

          For Youk, more than others, it makes sense to do this. This is his age 30 season. He’ll be beginning his decline when his arbitration years are up, and injuries only become more and more likely.

          • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

            You are missing my point. Why do a third of the guys on the Sox take hometown discount deals. I am not just speaking of Youk. I am talking about Wake, Pedroia, Big Papi, Lowell, etc.

            • Mike A. says:

              Maybe they just really like Boston?

            • Brian Cashman is Watching says:

              Lowell took a discount? I just thought no one else wanted to sign a 35 year old third baseman to a four year deal once the Yankees dropped out.

              The only home town discount I can really identify is Wakefield, who was already at advanced age when the deal was agreed to. Ortiz resigned when injury concerns were heightening, and he had already been missing significant time (plus, he’s a DH only player at a time when teams want defensive players).

              What Boston does very well? Timing. Aside from Lowell (no competing offers) and Wakefield, the other contracts are usually signed when the players lack any effective bargaining power. That differs from the Yankee strategy. The Yankees pay premium dollar for players who have strong bargaining positions. Give credit to the Red Sox front office: they are very smart about negotiations. Also give them credit for getting their farm system running sooner than the Yankees so that they could get these types of players on these contracts. Robinson Cano is the only player the Yankees have that they could sign to a low cost deal because of his weak bargaining position.

            • Chris says:

              Pedroia and Youk gave slight discounts, but they’re not that huge. Cano signed a 4 year $30M contract as he was going to arbitration for the first time. Youk signed for 4/$40 at the same point, and Pedroia signed for 6/$40 a year sooner. Lowell didn’t give a discount (3/$37.5).

              • Steve H says:

                Youk signed at the same point in his arb years, but was much older than Cano and Pedroia, making it less of a discount.

      • Brian Cashman is Watching says:

        Robinson Cano loves New York, and was willing to take a pay cut to be here. Funny how no one hears this story line when the all star second baseman signed an extension that bought out two of his free agent years. This is actually very common, as teams buy out the arbitration years. Youkilis in arbitration this year might have made $5-$6 million (see ESPN for a comparison of Ryan Howard’s arbitration hearing and other players), so Youkilis gets a bigger pay raise in the present for a little less in the future. Considering the time value of money, its better to get more upfront than in the future. Pedroia was a more classic case. What makes Youkilis peculiar is his relatively advanced age.

        • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

          Cano’s contract deal was a not as good version (for the team) of the Reyes and David Wright deals.

          I understand the nature of the deal, what I do not understand is how the Sox get a good portion of their players to take less than market deals. I think I do understand, and that Theo and Co are really really good at their work.

          • Brian Cashman is Watching says:

            I’m not sure it was less than a market deal. Youkilis basically was presented this choice: take less now in arbitration and hope for a bigger pay day in the future, or take more upfront and a little less in the future. Youkilis is not on the open market, so the comparison for him was the likely arbitration figure. So the key is: what will Youkilis be when the two arbitration years are over. If he is still at this high level, then its a great deal. If he falters, gets hurt, etc., then its a bad deal.

            It doesn’t hurt that these Youkilis is not a Boras client; otherwise, there would be no way a client would have agreed to any team option.

          • whozat says:

            No, you don’t. You’re comparing players that are FREE AGENTS to players who sign contracts while they are under team control. And, no, that doesn’t mean contract extensions. I mean that, during the first six years of a players’ career, the TEAM OWNS HIM, unless they choose not to tender him a contract. Thus, he has no leverage.

            That is how you get a guy to sign a team-friendly deal…make it so that his only other choice is to make $0 should he suffer a career-ending injury.

            • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

              Actually you are incorrect. The players have TONS of leverage these days. Teams are scared to DEATH about arbitration. That is LEVERAGE.

              Where did I compare a free agent to a player under team control?

              There is no reason Youk should have signed a deal like this that also had the team option at the end. His agent did him a disservice by allowing that option on this contract. He essentially gave away one year of his free agency coming off an MVP caliber season.

              • whozat says:

                “Where did I compare a free agent to a player under team control?”

                Well, since you haven’t actually identified one of these terrible Yankee contracts, except mentioning Tex at one point, I can only assume you’re thinking about Posada, Mo, and other recent free agent signings that the Yanks have made. Because the only ACTUAL comparable — Cano — compares just fine to the Pedroia and Youk contracts.

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

                  Guys off the top of my head getting paid more than their market value by the Yanks:


                  (and the amount on those is astronomical)

                  My question is how come the Yanks can not get anybody to resign for a discount either?

                  We also wait too long on guys by never negotiating during the seasons or ST. Moose on his last deal, Mo and Jorge on their last deals. It is like we would rather wait and over pay than get burned once on a year too long at the time when you have them in the position of wanting to stay. When a player gets to free agency why shouldn’t they test it?

                • Brian Cashman is Watching says:

                  I tend to agree with your later point, about waiting too long. That’s more of a philosophical choice, as some teams prefer to wait until the end of the season with their own players. Philadelphia is an extreme version of this. New York is sort of in the middle. Teams that sign early think they can capture below market value, while others believe that waiting has advantages by not locking in a player that might get injured (especially true for older players). Jorge Posada might have been a casualty of that strategy.

                  But CC and A-rod are not good examples. CC was not resigned; he was a free agent. Think JD Drew, who was paid a premium amount. A-Rod is a Boras client (like Teixeira and Drew). When you get a player that is a Boras client, you know they care about one thing: money. Maybe the strategy is to get away from Boras clients (I am not advocating this).

                  There is talk of Jason Bay signing an extension. Let’s see how that process goes (note: he’s not a Boras client).

                • whozat says:


                  Aaaaand this is why I called you out for comparing FREE AGENTS to players under team control. I knew you were talking about guys like this.

                  It’s apples to oranges. These guys had leverage. Youkilis, Pedroia and Cano didn’t.

              • Brian Cashman is Watching says:

                Scared to death of arbitration? Compared to what?

                Youkilis would have likely received $5/6 million this year, which would have been the higher end of the range. Ryan Howard was a special case, as he already had an MVP award, a Rookie of the Year award, and was hitting lots of home runs and getting lots of RBIs (arbitration panels love HRs and RBIs). Most first year arbitration cases, even with good players, goes nowhere near that high. For example, Chien Ming Wang only received $4 million in his first year of arbitration even though he was coming off a 19 win season and garnered votes for the Cy Young award.

                I agree about the option year, though it is a $14 million option year, so he is being paid like an all star first baseman. However, the only agent who seems to have gotten away from club options is Scott Boras.

                By the way, Robinson Cano’s contract includes two team options, one for $14 million and another for $15 million. The problem in analysis here is whether you think Cano or Youkilis will be more valuable Note that Cano signed his deal when times were better, plus he’s much younger and plays a position where good offensive players are hard to find.

    • Reggie C. says:

      I’ve got no beef with your post. CHONE projections say your boy is going to take a 90 point hit in Slugging. Ouch.

  11. Manimal says:

    I had no idea Tex was actually younger than Youk.

  12. Mike Pop says:

    Look what this guy is telling me about A-Rod. The same guy I mentioned last night.

    Alex Rodriguez’s MVPs are frauds like he’s a fraud. If you WATCH the games, you might realize that he’s nowhere to be found when needed, he has no range, and yet he still makes errors. Any man that strikes out more than 120 times every year and ADMITS he has trouble catching pop ups does not belong in the major leagues

  13. D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

    Supposedly there is a club option for a fifth year at $13MM for the Sox on that Youk deal. Who is his agent?

    • Manimal says:

      Joe Bick(Cots Contracts)

    • Mike Pop says:

      Joe Bick

    • A.D. says:

      Someone who’s better than the agent that put 2 team options on the end of his contract, as an actual free agent…wtf.

      The worst contract is Wakefields, recurring team deal for less than his market value

      • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

        This is my general point. The Sox get guys to give them deep discount and sweetheart deals while the Yanks pay guys 60 percent more than the next offer at times and give anybody and everybody a no trade.

        It is kinda crazy.

        • A.D. says:

          I mean some of that is luck, I mean the Wakefield one is just TERRIBLE business at this point, why he’s doing it I don’t know.

          The Manny deal, well thats why he changed agents

          • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

            Actually the Manny deal I thought was a good one for Manny. He changed agents because his agent bought a MLB team.

            • A.D. says:

              he wasnt happy about the uncertainty of the 2 team options when he finally got to them, thus the temper-tantrum last year

              • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

                The guy that did Manny’s deal with the Sox was already not his agent anymore. He had at least 3 agents while with the Sox, the last of them being Boras. The guy he fired before he got to Boras was not the fellow that negotiated his original deal with the Red Sox.

        • Old Ranger says:

          It may have something to do with the fact that it is “The Yankees” the one team that will pay what ever it takes, to get the player they want.

          One must admit the Yanks have that stigma attached to their name, therefore the agents are much more aggressive with them. Many times we see the Yanks bidding against themselves. The players (agents) aren’t dumb…they go for the money.

          • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

            I think this is the real answer.

            “Many times we see the Yanks bidding against themselves. The players (agents) aren’t dumb…they go for the money.”

        • Steve H says:

          JD Drew says hi. So does Julio Lugo. And Edgar Renteria.

  14. A.D. says:

    Sam Bradford going back to school… the Lions can start working out Staffords contract

  15. So is it me or should we have a blanket policy that if you play baseball in New York you should stay OFF non-team airplanes?

  16. Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

    “Neither player has a significant platoon split, but Tex is a switch hitter”

    Mike, explain this one to me. How is there any tangible benefit to this? If a player hits equally well from both sides of the plate, isn’t which side of the plate he hits from really just window dressing?

    • Thomas says:

      The advantage is Teixeira cannot be exploited by a pitcher that is dominant against right handers. Youkilis can be.

      For example, Teixeira can face Chad Bradford as a lefty, Youkilis cannot. Therefore, advantage Teixeira.

      • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

        “If a player hits equally well from both sides of the plate”

        • Thomas says:

          Certain pitchers have major advantages when facing a player batting from a specific side. If you can face that pitcher from the opposite side of the plate it is an advantage to the batter.

          For example, against Bradford righties bat .240 and lefties .313. Lets assume Youkilis keeps his regular average .289 even when facing Bradford. Assume Teixeira a lefty bats at the average for the lefty of .313. Thus, advantage Teixeira.

          It would be a rare case, but an advantage for Teixeira nonetheless.

    • Mike A. says:

      It is just window dressing right, but I figured it was worth noting. Maybe as he gets older Youk develops a platoon split, or ditto Teixeira.

      • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:


        For a while, I was all jazzed up about the Yanks having 3 switch hitters, thinking they could put them all together and give opposing managers nightmares matching up in the late innings. But when I thought about it a bit more, I remembered that Jeter, Matsui, A-Rod and Nady all hit Righties and Lefties equally well. So you have that anyway. 3 switch hitters in a row would be more of a gimmick for the Yanks lineup than some big advantage.

        • Old Ranger says:

          That is an exception, most players do have trouble hitting one or the other. Even some switch hitters have more trouble from one side then the other…see, Wilson Betemit.

  17. A.D. says:


    Be interesting to see what he actually gets…doubt its 12M of last year

  18. E-ROC says:

    Has anyone read this? If it’s been posted already, my bad.


  19. The restaurant that I got fired from closed down today. And I can not wipe the smirk off my face.

    • Why’d you get fired? Inquiring minds want to know!

      • Well, I am rather young, and can be kind of a smart-ass. A female manager transferred to our restaurant who was just a few years older. With her came a bunch of new rules that if were not obeyed then we would be written up for. Now, I have no problems with the rules, but she would contradict her self. Example, not being allowed to have our cell phones out. Ok, I completely understand and agree with this rules. However, she would sit at a table near the bar and play with her iPhone, and be on the phone with personal calls when we would need her help. Where as, we would be punished for checking the time. Basically the picture I am trying to paint is that she was rather immature and unfair.
        I had been at the restaurant for almost two years when she arrived. Now, I love to know the ins and outs of my job. I am very knowledgeable and tried to soak up everything I could. This hurt me a few times. The manager who transfered took exception when I corrected her a few times. After that she started to single me out for things that were undeserving. After I few months of this, I had enough. She was arguing with me and I kind of blurted out. I said “I despise you.” I knew that I would be punished for this, but I thought at most I would be suspended. Well, she told our General Manager that she was afraid to work with. So, I was fired.

        • Mike Pop says:

          You were a busboy 3536?

        • TurnTwo says:

          eh, welcome to the real world.

          everyone above you will always preach one thing and then do exactly what they tell you not to do.

          for 2009, my company is preaching teamwork, and fostering better employee relations and working together for improved patient care in our hospital.

          so of course, the doctors could care less and continue to pretend like their better than the administrative support who does all their dirty work like scheduling appts, maintaining patient records, etc.

          this is how revolutions start.

    • Jack says:

      Last night I watched the episode of Seinfeld where George got the busboy fired two days before the restaurant blew up. Good times.

  20. Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

    WFAN’s Francesa was saying today that he’s hearing the Yanks might revisit Ben Sheets since it looks like Andy is gone.

    It makes sense, and could explain the hard line they’ve taken with Andy. If recent reports are true that Sheets is willing to accept a 1 year deal in the 6-8 mil range, then the Yanks could take him and rely on Hughes/Aceves/IPK as depth for the inevitable injury to either him or Burnett. It would also give them another big upside pitcher for the playoffs, which Pettitte no longer is at this point of his career. It won’t however, give them the much needed 200 innings they were hoping to get from Andy. But with the depth they have I guess they feel comfortable risking that.

    • TurnTwo says:

      he hasnt gotten a single published offer from ANYONE… so of course he’ll accept a 1 year/$6-8 million offer.

      he’ll apparently be lucky if he even gets that.

      • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

        Again, could explain the hard line they’re taking with Andy.

        It’s well known that Girardi L-O-V-E-S Sheets, he’s said so many times. Guess it all comes down to the medicals.

    • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Last Don says:

      If the medical reports are even alright looking on year for 6 million would be GREAT!

  21. LC says:

    what do you guys think about the yanks getting randy wolf as the 5th starter? shouldn’t he come at about 8 mil for one year?

  22. Joey H says:

    Sorry I haven’t been on the comments in a while. This is interesting. Clearly Tex is much better than Youk. Although they are very similar, Tex is an ELITE fielder and a switch hitter unlike Youkilis. Well I’m about to go live in under 40 mins with my 5th show. I’ll be talking about this post. Interesting splits on these two guys.

  23. Just realized it is Thursday. The Office.

    Enough. Said.

  24. Brian says:

    I love all these Sawks fans who now claim that Teix is not even that great after all. About a month ago, Teix was an ELITE, FIRST CLASS free agent first baseman, better than anyone besides Pujols.

    Now the Yanks actually have the stones to spend some money, and he is no longer great anymore.

    I love it.

  25. Joey H says:

    Hey Mike. What are you guys going to do for a logo once the stadium is down?

  26. Brooklyn Ed says:

    uh…its offical: Andruw Jones have been released


  27. Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

    Its official, Andruw gets released


  28. A.D. says:

    Looks like Jones would have to sign a minor league deal to go to Atlanta… interesting

  29. A.D. says:

    RAB planning on coming out with any new T-shirts?

  30. Matt says:

    Hey Eli:

    Less Toyota ads and more learning how to pass in the wind, please.

  31. Steve O. says:

    In 2011 Teixeira suffers an injury that will limit his ability to play the field with defensive efficiency. Do the Yankees make a play for Pujols in the locking in their 1B and DH positions and with Montero knocking on the door? Or just move Montero over to 1B trusting a kid over a proven vet? I’m not saying sign him in spite of Teixeira, just with those circumstances. Although I doubt the Cardinals let him sniff FA.

    • If Montero starts hitting 30 HRs in the minors, no doubt you go to Montero.

    • Old Ranger says:

      No, they don’t go after him.
      I think you and I along with everyone else has seen the last of the over priced contracts from the Yankees. This year was the last of the King George type spending.
      They needed more then one or two players to get the ship righted, so they spent like drunken sailors…only for this year.
      From now on you will see the Yanks pull back from a player if the price gets to high. No more of the; “Well, the Yanks are willing to give us….!”. Mark my words, there are going to be changes with the financial operations of this team.

      • Mike Pop says:

        The wise and knowledgable has spoken and we shall all listen.

        • Old Ranger says:

          Now you are learning, good for you.-jk.
          I’m just going by what I’ve seen and heard from the front office of the team, Cashman and little King Hal. Try it yourself, go back and read some of the things they have said and done…it all ads up.

          Of course it may be, that I am completely nuts…it’s just, I guess one could say; “It’s the way I read them.”
          Always putting puzzles back together, bits of information and peoples words and actions in given situations along with hostile movements. It’s a gift, I was very good at, but maybe I am not as sharp as I once was.

          So, let’s go with the I’m just Nuts thing…ok?

          • Mike Pop says:

            Na man, I agree with you. I hope they are done with this kind of spending spree. We might need an outfielder or two next year or mayb we can just re-sign Damon and be alright. Hopefully that is the case.

            • Old Ranger says:

              I have a wish list for OF next year…Carl Crawford to play LF.

              Now, I am not saying the Yankees won’t go after a player they need…they will but, they will not pay the Yankee type money they always have. Just my take , I could be wrong…one thing in the equation is; Cash had as a mentor, “Stick’ Micheal’s.

      • pat says:

        Plus didn’t pujols play like the whole season with a torn UCL? It obviously didnt affect his numbers, and I’m no doctor but that shits gotta catch up with you right?

  32. Who did design your banner, anyway?

    I love it.

  33. Brian Cashman is Watching says:

    I found this interesting. For fans of Keith Law, a commentator asked what the regression equation would be that compared money to wins. He found little correlation. He also found little correlation in age.


    Look for the commentator wallysb0105.

    Gut reaction: he did not hold enough factors constant (league factors are among them), and he might not have considered multiple years, but I do not see the background data he used. Still, while money was a factor, there are likely other factors.

    • Brian Cashman is Watching says:

      And, for those who think ESPN supports the Red Sox, a quote from a Red Sox fan from the same webpage:

      Keith-You don’t have a SINGLE thing to say about the interesting acquisitions the Red Sox have recently made?? Really, not a single thing?! This anti-East Coast/Red Sox bias at ESPN is just getting out of control. I’m going to have to talk to the Ombudsman about this. It’s gone too far for too long.

  34. Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

    Yankee Starting Rotation Depth Chart
    CC Sabathia
    AJ Burnett
    Chien Mein Wang
    Joba Chamberlain
    Phil Hughes
    Alfredo Aceves

    Red Sox Starting Rotation Depth Chart
    Josh Beckett
    John Lester
    Tim Wakefield
    John Smoltz
    Brad Penny

    Which one would you rather have? For the regular season and the playoffs?

  35. pat says:


    dude knocks himself unconscious BEFORE going off a snowboard jump, awesomeness ensues.

  36. A.D. says:


    Any chance Malec moves to a corner outfield spot in AAA to give him a shot at the majors with the yanks?

    • Mike A. says:

      Maybe. As far as I know he’s never played the outfield before, but he could give it a shot to increase his versatility. I’ve always like him as utility player sleeper.

      • A.D. says:

        just looking at the minor league #s it looks like a poor mans youkilis… Essentially much is the same, but Youk walks more (while Malec is still quite patient) and Youk was drafted 8 rounds sooner

        Looks like 2 career games in LF…with an error, both last year.

  37. RichYF aka sooooo tired of the "namedrop says hello" meme says:

    Andruw Jones now costs nothing more than Shelley Duncan’s spot on the 40 man and some money.

    Is it really such a pipedream to believe that: A. He’d want to join the Yanks on an incentive-laden deal, B. He can outperform Melky/Gardner, and C. He’s young enough to revert to AT LEAST career average form?

    I’ve read a lot of debates, but other than some excess weight and a lack of motivation, what’s stopping him from returning to form? Has he lost speed? I recall some surgery on I want to say a knee, but is he that crippled?

    How do you not give up Shelley’s spot for this guy? Obviously if Pettitte is resigning he’s going to take Shelley’s 40-man spot, but I’m over Andy. It’s a dead horse. I want to beat a new one.

  38. DP says:

    Haha this is like a mile down on the thread. But who ended up being the bench guy you think the Yanks should sign? My vote is for Aurilia. Bats about league average and can play all 4 positions. Plus he’s from Brooklyn that’s gotta count for something.

  39. Evan Brunell says:

    Check the UZR for Youk and Tex. Offense isn’t the whole thing.

    • whozat says:

      Yeah…Last year, Tex was way better on D than Youk.

      UZR is really volatile season to season, which makes it hard for me to put a lot of stock in it. Maybe Youk’s a bit better on defense. Ok, I’ll give you that. But…

      A) It’s not a defensively premier position
      B) Tex has been significantly — and consistently — better on offense for a number of years.

  40. Andy says:

    Let me say this – Youk is my #1 candidate for a let down year. It is telling that Tex was a free agent two years prior to Youk being eligible, even though he is 13 months younger. Bottom line is Youk didn’t make it to the bigs until he was 25 years old, a huge red flag. Players like that sometimes (although very rarely) have a nice peak during their prime years, but Youk is already on the downslide age wise. Chances are, he won’t even be good enough for the Sox to pick up his option year, when he’ll be 35.

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