Paul Byrd is no Roger Clemens

Bang for the Buck: Pitchers
Yanks have eye on Freddy Garcia

I’ve heard a few people argue the case of the Yankees adding Paul Byrd as a fifth starter. While I don’t agree myself, I can see the point. He can give you 180, 200 innings of league average ball. From a fifth starter, that’s dandy. However, the argument is now moot, as Byrd has said he’ll sit out the first half of the season. He hopes to pitch for a contender, and if the Yankees aren’t getting the production they need from the No. 5 spot, they could definitely put in a bid for the junkballing righty. Byrd is a Type B free agent, but if he doesn’t sign until after the draft the Red Sox will not receive a sandwich pick.

Bang for the Buck: Pitchers
Yanks have eye on Freddy Garcia
  • frank

    Whether it Byrd, Pettitte or someone else, I believe the Yanks need a more established 5th starter rather than banking on Hughes, Aceves or whoever. There are some good bargains out there and some of these pitchers have to be getting a little nervous. I still believe the Yanks should take a flier on Sheets on a short term incentive deal unless it’s clear he is still injured. They can afford it and even if he gives them 20 starts, he’s probably well worth the risk. The RS did it with Penny and Smoltz- why can’t the Yanks do the same? They can even limit his innings if there is concern about him holding up. But the potential upside could be off the charts.I have to believe Cash is layng low waiting to swoop in on a bargain.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      The RS did it with Penny and Smoltz- why can’t the Yanks do the same?

      While I’ll agree with all of your comment, the answer to this particular question is likely that Ben Sheets is not yet desperate enough to take a 1yr/5.5M deal like Smoltz did. If he were, we’d have signed him by now.

  • huuz

    haha.

    didn’t he admit to PED use before the 2007 ALCS?

    hmmm, admitted HGH user, sitting out for half of the season…just so he can “spend time w/ his family…”

    how convenient.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      No, he didn’t admit it. Peter Gammons conveniently broke the story the day of his ALCS Game 7 in Fenway. Quite the coincidence, no?

      • huuz

        i won’t ever deny the deviousness of peter gammons, but byrd did admit to taking HGH

        http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2007/news/story?id=3072845

        • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          Read the article you linked to. He spoke to the media after the report of his PED use was public.

          • huuz

            from the article:

            The 36-year-old right-hander said he took the drug for a medical condition but claimed he never injected it without a doctor’s prescription. …

            “I have not taken any hormone apart from a doctor’s care and supervision,” Byrd said. “The Indians, my coaches and MLB have known that I have had a pituitary gland issue for some time and have assisted me in getting blood tests in different states. …

            A report Sunday in The San Francisco Chronicle said Byrd bought nearly $25,000 worth of human growth hormone and syringes between 2002 and 2005. Byrd said he no longer is taking HGH.

            MLB senior vice president for business and labor Rob Manfred told the New York Daily News in a story for Monday that Byrd hadn’t received a theraputic use exemption (TUE) to use HGH. The TUE is a special waiver allowing players to take a banned drug for a legitimate medical reason.

            “If he’s saying that to create the impression that he was authorized or had permission, we have never granted a [therapeutic use exemption] for human growth hormone, ever,” said Manfred, according to the Daily News. “Not for this guy, not for anybody.”

            ***************

            …so, he admitted taking HGH under a doctor’s care.

            that is the point i’m making: he took (and admitted to taking) HGH at some point in time. this article supports that statement.

            • radnom

              Huh? No it doesnt?
              All it says is “I havn’t taken anything that was not under a doctor’s care”…..does NOT equal…….”I took HGH under a doctor’s care.

              And whether or not he admitted it is irrelevant to this argument…as Mondesi pointed out, he made these statements in response to a media report.

              • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                Right… The point is whether he admitted anything before or after the report was public. He spoke about the issue AFTER the report was public, not before.

              • huuz

                The 36-year-old right-hander said he took the drug

                this is the first sentence that i posted from the article. he says he took HGH.

                i do not care what his reasons were. he admitted to taking it.

                whether or not he was “allowed” to take is up for debate. he said he was doing so under the care of a dr. MLB contends that nobody in MLB is “allowed” to take HGH.

                what difference does it make if he owned up to it “in response to a media question?”

                • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  “what difference does it make if he owned up to it “in response to a media question?”

                  Ummm… Because that’s what this thread has been about??

                  Let’s see here… your first comment in this thread:

                  “didn’t he admit to PED use before the 2007 ALCS?”

                  Mike’s response:

                  “No, he didn’t admit it. Peter Gammons conveniently broke the story the day of his ALCS Game 7 in Fenway…”

                  Your response:

                  “i won’t ever deny the deviousness of peter gammons, but byrd did admit to taking HGH” [posted with link to article contradicting your statement]

                  Nobody has questioned whether Paul Byrd talked about the HGH issue and admitted to something, we all saw him talking on TV prior to Game 7 in Fenway and then in the aftermath. The question, that you yourself were discussing, was whether he admitted it of his own volition or whether he only talked about it after the issue was public.

                  Whatever, this is pointless. Yes, he admitted to using HGH. After he had no choice because everyone already knew he’d used HGH. F’ng fabulous.

                • huuz

                  Whatever, this is pointless. Yes, he admitted to using HGH. After he had no choice because everyone already knew he’d used HGH. F’ng fabulous.

                  i agree.

  • A.D.

    Could be Byrd’s 8th career team if he goes somewhere different.

    And since 2004 he’s been in the playoffs at the end of the year all but ’06. Looks like he’ll pick his spot for this year

  • huuz

    financially, why would he do this?

    the dude has made $40M in his career. forgoing the ~$4M that he could stand to earn for a half-season of work doesn’t make sense. He could increase his net worth by 10% in 3 months of work. I think his family would understand.

    • A.D.

      maybe he doesn’t need the money

    • radnom

      or…he has made $40 million in his career and so is more than well enough off to decide that 6 months with his family is more important than “increasing his net worth”. Also, $4m for half a season. You really think Byrd would pull an $8m deal this offseason?

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      I think his family would understand.

      It seems like his family prefers him to stay at home. They already have lots of money, he can afford to sit out half the year if his family wants him at home spending time together and raising his kids.

      • huuz

        fine. maybe he does feel that he has enough $. but if i was in his position i wouldn’t skip out on $4M for three months of work.

        my opinion is that most pro athletes realize that they have a finite amount of time to earn as much $ as possible…since their skill (playing their sport) is very fleeting. they will get old, or they’ll get injured, etc.

        in all likelihood, this is the only serious $ they’ll ever earn. they need to get it now, ’cause it won’t be there later…

        fwiw, that $40M is problably closer to $16M after taxes (%50 for fed. + state + city) and what their agents take (10%, I’m guessing).

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          And that’s your opinion. Apparently it’s not Paul Byrd’s. It’s very possible that you’re the smart one and he’s the dumbass… but it is what it is.

          Michael Vick signed a $130M deal and then let his idiot buddies run a federally criminal enterprise out of his house.

          • huuz

            And that’s your opinion. Apparently it’s not Paul Byrd’s

            100% correct.

            i’m just so used to athletes chasing the $, that i have a hard time believing otherwise.

            Michael Vick signed a $130M deal and then let his idiot buddies run a federally criminal enterprise out of his house.

            i actually feel badly for dudes like vick, who allow their “friends” to take advantage of them. i’m not saying that vick was innocent, but the sheer wasted potential of the situation saddens me.

  • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

    I’m not sure why Byrd wants to do this, but I’m sure his reasons make sense to him.

    Pettitte still makes more sense than anyone else.

    Question: How long do you think before the yankees go and sign someone else and give up on Pettitte coming back? Or do you think they try to solve it in-house?

    • radnom

      I’m not sure anyone else makes sense at this point….and I’m not one of those people who think it would be a disaster for them to keep it in house.

      Although, a $6m base salary with incentives that could make it up to $10 for Sheets would be extremely tempting, increased medical concerns aside.

      • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

        It’d be tempting, but like you said, Pettitte still makes the most sense.

        • radnom

          Yes. What we need is reliability.
          But not shitty reliability. If not Pettitte I would rather not waste a roster spot on someone like Byrd or Garland and stick with the famr.

          • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

            I guess as long as it’s not Ponson or Pavano I can learn to live with it.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Agreed. Pettitte and Sheets are really the only two guys I’d consider over the other option of standing pat and giving the kids a shot.

            • Sweet Dick Willie

              Would Randy Wolf sign a one year deal? If so, I’d consider that an option, albeit a lesser one.

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

    The difference between Clemens and Byrd (besides the obvious) is that Byrd’s a feel pitcher. Clemens would come in a throw a fastball by guys right out of the gate, Byrd will need time to get a feel for his changeup and stuff. Basically a full month of Spring Training.

    • radnom

      Better Byrd than Ponson if we need someone in August.

      Let’s hope it doesn’t come down to that again.

      • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

        Forget Ponson. We actually had to use Pavano.

        • radnom

          Hey check the previous thread.
          He prevented 2.2 runs over replacement level last year.
          You don’t just find that production anywhere.

          • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

            !!!

  • The Lodge

    How about Freddi Garcia? Not going to post the link, but Heyman is saying he’s “talking to” Yanks, Mets, Rangers (whatever that’s worth).

    Maybe they can get him on the cheap. I dunno who’d get DFA’d though. Hmmm… He probably is looking for a big-league deal. At his best he’s better than mediocre. A solid #5.

    • Reggie C.

      Heh…i asked the same question below. Don’t know why the Mets or Rangers would want Garcia. I know depth is necessary for all teams, BUT those 2 ballclubs need more front-line help. Especially the Mets. That Lowe non-signing is going to haunt Minaya in ’09.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        That Those Lowe, CC, Burnett, Sheets, Teixeira, Manny, Dunn, Furcal, Burrell, etc. etc. non-signings are going to haunt Minaya in ‘09.

        Fixed.

        • rbizzler

          What that comment should really say is that the Wilpon’s decision to invest with Madoff is going to haunt the franchise for years to come.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Well, at least they have some nice snazzy uniform patches commemorating their inaugural season in 2009…

          • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

            Or you know, the fact that their mascot HAS A GIANT BASEBALL HEAD, but either/or.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Barry Bonds is their mascot? Since when?

              • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

                *Or you know, the fact that their mascot HAS A GIANT WHITE BASEBALL HEAD, but either/or.

                fixed.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  BARRY BONDS IS WHITE!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

                • rbizzler

                  Lay off Mr. Met. He is a pop culture icon! Those patches are an embarassment though.

  • Reggie C.

    What’s the word with Freddy Garcia’s comeback? Is he viable 5th starter material at this point?

    • Should be working

      Hard to say. If we’re looking for an innings eater he might not be the guy. While he was very capable of throwing 200+ average ball while healthy, thats the problem. No one knows how healthy he is/effective he’ll be and if we’re looking for a innings crutch he’s as much as a question mark as anyone else out there. But if they’re set on getting someone else, i’d rather get Sheets on 1/yr than Garcia. More upside.

      • TurnTwo

        that of course depends on what you’re willing to pay.

        Garcia can prob be had for less guaranteed money than Sheets.

        Since he actually finished the year healthy (allegedly) with the Tigers last season, while Sheets went down late with his shoulder or forearm injury and was shut down, you could prob argue that Garcia is the better bet to give you more innings in 2009.

        • Should be working

          I would have to agree. Especially how things have progressed (or havent) with Sheets. Seems to be that there is more than we know goin on with him. However because of such you’d have to imagine the price on Sheets is dropping incredibly low. I’d call Garcia the safer (although I know he had soreness in his shoulder or something pushing back his winter ball. Any stats on those by the way?) but if the price is low enough i’d still might lean towards Sheets because neither of them are going to give us 200 innings.

          • The Lodge

            With such depth, how many innings do you need out of #5 (i.e. IPK, Hughes, Aceves, etc – Major league spot starts can only help these guys at this point).

        • The Lodge

          Garcia would be WAY cheaper than Sheets. Garcia has had one injury recently. I don’t think he is an injury-prone guy. Yanks could take a gamble on him – but, again, who would they cut loose to make room? Unless he takes a minor league deal… Is this realistic? I hope I will be able to make the chat… and find out what the boys think on this one.

          • Should be working

            The winner of 118 games in a 10-year career, Garcia is pitching for the Navegantes del Magallanes, trying to re-establish his career after two seasons cut short by 2007 shoulder surgery.

            Garcia, 33, has a 5.14 ERA in two starts covering seven innings. He left his last start after two innings Thursday because of discomfort in the shoulder, but his agent, Peter Greenberg, said he thought it was not a serious issue.

            He does plan on pitching every five days the rest of the Venezuelan season, and a healthy Garcia would be an intriguing option for teams.

            http://www.freep.com/article/20081202/SPORTS02/81202058/1050

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

      All that, and more, at 3:30.

      • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

        I like the shamelessness here…

      • A.D.

        But I want to discuss NOW

      • rbizzler

        Today is profile day right? I would much rather read about the farm than discuss trash-heap starting pitcher options, including (but not exclusive to) Byrd, Ponson and Garcia (and his crappy winter ball stats).

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Today’s prospect profile: Victor Zambrano

          • rbizzler

            Way to combine the two subjects. How efficient of you.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              I have ridiculous upside.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

          Next Wednesday is profile day. I should probably start writing it, huh?

  • http://nyfaninboston.blogspot.com/ Manimal

    He was valued at 6.6 mil on fangraphs, Would the yankees over pay for half a year?

    • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

      If they have to they will, but I think the’ll try to avoid it.

  • Balls Deep

    I would rather see Sheets than Garcia; and if he breaks down, then you have the young guns to fill in until he’s back. Keeping Hughes, IPK,Aceves and Geise around solve that problem… Keeping Joba as close to a 6 inning pitcher will help also.

    • whozat

      You’re only looking at upside and ignoring the probability of the pitcher achieving that upside.

      If Sheets had decent medicals, he’d be signed by now. They must be very, very scary in order for people to still be shying away from him. Essentially, the Yankees (and others) must be looking at Sheets as a very expensive way to be pretty sure that their sixth starter is going to see lots of time in the majors. So what’s the point?

      • Balls Deep

        But if you think his medicals were that bad; wouldn’t we hear that on Sportscenter; Buster Olney would be breaking news or they would have an “Outside the Lines” interviewing his xray technician and his physical therapist. I have no idea why FA market got so cold; could be, as stated here a few days ago about draft picks lost. Just don’t want to see a repeat of last year with kids in 4 and 5 slots.

        • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

          Or you know, the GIANT ECONOMIC COLLAPSE OF DOOM.

          All teams have been advised by MLB to, uh, spend wisely. Not that the Yankees ever listen.

        • whozat

          But if you think his medicals were that bad; wouldn’t we hear that on Sportscenter; Buster Olney would be breaking news or they would have an “Outside the Lines” interviewing his xray technician and his physical therapist.

          How would Olney get his hands on the medicals? Sheets’ agent is doing his job by not letting that info get out there. But the guy’s got ace stuff, yet the Braves weren’t in on him, the Yankees were scared off, the Mets aren’t going near him…NOBODY is talking to this guy. Even as gamesmanship in the Lowe bidding, nobody was talking to him. If anyone thought he could throw even 300 IP over the next two seasons, he’d probably be signed already, or we’d be hearing more whispers than we are. His agent, at least, would be leaking that info to generate buzz.

          The only thing that makes sense is that teams have seen the medicals and he’s a time bomb.

          • Balls Deep

            Was tongue in cheek…Is anyone talking to Garland? Not a Garcia fan…

            • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

              Oh. If you make a “tongue in cheek” joke that nobody gets, your tongue probably wasn’t planted firmly enough in your cheek.

              Garland is terrible.

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                Agreed. I’d rather sign Ben Sheets and immediately cut up his shoulder, or sign Freddy Garcia not to play for us, but to rehab for two more years in the Mexican League, than to ever sign Jon Garland to anything ever.

                • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  I really don’t get the interest some people have in that guy. All offseason I’ve been in the “sign AJ/Pettitte” camp. I’ve stated my continuing faith in the development of Hughes/IPK/etc., but also expressed interest in not handing 2 rotation spots to pitchers from the “Joba/Hughes/Aceves/IPK/etc.” group, thus my interest in bringing in a viable, proven (I know that word sucks but I’m struggling for an alternative right now) option for that last open slot in the rotation. And even I would rather see Hughes or someone else handed that slot than see the Yankees throw away money and a roster spot on what would very likely be a multi-year deal for the services of Jon Garland. Please look at his numbers and scouting reports before suggesting him. He sucks and he’s not worth whatever he’d command.

        • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          “But if you think his medicals were that bad; wouldn’t we hear that on Sportscenter…”

          Why would the MSM be examining that issue? Who exactly is going to go tell the MSM that Sheets’ medicals are F’d? Sheets and his reps? No. Some team’s FO? Why would they do that?

          I have no idea if his medicals are F’d or not, but given the evidence we have [(1) When healthy, Sheets is a highly respected and successful pitcher; (2) he ended last season with an injury that was decribed by different sources as either being a minor strain or perhaps a more worrisome shoulder issue; (3) there are unsubstantiated rumors that his medicals are scaring teams away; and (4) as far as we know, nobody has so much as made him a contract offer (beyond his arbitration offer, which he declined)], it’s pretty reasonable to think his medicals may be F’d.

          • Balls Deep

            Why wouldn’t the MSM be looking for this… hell with the NFL news; Chris Mortensen would stab his mother in the eye to break the story that Donovan McNabb no longer eats Campbell’s Chunky Soup before each game. That is a given. Competition amongst the networks, now with MLB network too; I would think this would be out there; just not left unspoken, if it’s known to all the teams.

            • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

              I didn’t say the MSM wouldn’t be interested in the story, I questioned why they would ever have that information available to them. Who, among those to whom that information is available, would benefit from giving that information to the media? I can’t think of anyone.

  • Mike Pop

    I know they are not the same pitcheer but….I don’t know if it’s been stated yet, but they both did PED’s!