Jan
05

Pettitte rejects Yanks $10 million offer

By

If Andy Pettitte pitches in 2009, it figures to be for more than $10 million. Tyler Kepner reports that Pettitte has rejected the Yankees’ offer, though he still “could return because some in the Yankees’ hierarchy want him back.” Pettitte has long expressed his desire to stay with the Yankees, but they’ll have to sweeten the pot for that reunion to occur.

The Yankees still have a number of options to round out their rotation. They could pursue the remaining free agent options. While it’s tough to count them out on Derek Lowe, I don’t think anyone believes he’ll end up in pinstripes. Ben Sheets remains a possibility, though his shoulder might be too large a concern. They could check out Oliver Perez, but they certainly should not. Alternatively, they could open up the spot to Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, or Alfedo Aceves in Spring Training.

I still think that retaining Pettitte is the best option. The risk is obvious. Pettitte posted a 4.54 ERA last year, 5.35 after the All-Star break while battling shoulder issues. The Yanks would be gambling on him recovering and staying healthy throughout 2009. The payoff would be 200+ innings of slightly above-average pitching. This would take a bit of pressure off Joba Chamberlain, who has to work around an innings cap.

Will the Yanks tack on a couple million to the offer to retain Pettitte? I’d like to think so. If we’re talking $12 million, I don’t see why not. No, I don’t cut the checks, but if they were offering $10, they could probably do $12 easily. For one year, it’s a better deal than the other available free agents.

Categories : Hot Stove League

229 Comments»

  1. From the article:

    “Pettitte might wonder why the Yankees offered a pay cut at a time when they spent a combined $243.5 million on C. C. Sabathia and A. J. Burnett. “

    Hmmm, perhaps because you’re not as good as CC Sabathia or AJ Burnett anymore, Andy? There’s that… that may be a possibility.

    I’m just saying.

  2. A.D. says:

    Hello Aceves

  3. Ryan S. says:

    Could we just give Andy $10M + Kei Igawa?

  4. Doug says:

    At this point in his career, he’s not worth more than $10M (and that’s being generous). if pettitte thinks he can get more elsewhere, then adios.

  5. Abe says:

    I don’t understand Andy’s reasoning here. Does he really think he can get a better offer? Is he really OK with the Yankees saying ‘fine we will look elsewhere to fill that spot?’

  6. Mike A. says:

    It’s funny, because if Brian Cashman had offered $10M per year to a pitcher that …

    a) is 36 years old
    b) had a 4.54 ERA last year
    c) had a 1.40+ WHIP the past three years
    d) is an admitted PED user
    e) has questions surrounding the health of his arm

    … and his name wasn’t Andy Pettitte, people would be killing him.

  7. Ryan S. says:

    I can’t wait for Pete to go:

    “SEE GUYS I TOLD YOU. YANKS DIDN’T WANT TO SPEND MONEY. SEE? I’M NOT INADEQUATE!!!!!!”

  8. Jerry says:

    Just thinking aloud here but if the Yankees need an innings eater, why not look into Wolf? If they look into Perez, why not Wolf on a one year deal? If they don’t like him or want to give one of the young guys an extended look then DFA him like Hawkins.

    • Meh, it’s better than Lowe or Perez.

      I’d still rather do Andy or nothing, though.

    • Abe says:

      Lowe is asking too much and Wolf isn’t great and he doesn’t eat as many innings as people think.

    • Chris C. says:

      “Just thinking aloud here but if the Yankees need an innings eater, why not look into Wolf?”

      I just love the term “innings eater”. It’s so bull-shitty, it’s endearing!
      Remember when everyone loved JAvier Vazquez because he was an “innings-eater”, until it became apparent that the more innings he ate, the more the opposition ate him?
      Each organization has about 100 pitchers in it. Why in the world you’ed need a shitty pitcher for an 8 digit salary just because his arm won’t fall off if he tosses 7 innings is beyoned me. You can just keep shuffling up rookies every 5th day to accomplish that same thing. And hey, you may even find a gem in your very own system! Imagine that?

  9. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA, only the Buckeyes would lose this game in that way.

    Mental epic fail.

  10. Abe says:

    What a game – wow

  11. A.D. says:

    Nice win by the ‘horns, not going to be any split national title though.

    Texas will be real good next year.

  12. ryan says:

    It’s probably his agents running this show and Pettitte is probably gonna step in and say ” get er done” real soon. 12 mill for one more yr will probably be the end result.

    • A.D. says:

      maybe, but i could see the yanks going with Aceves, and saving the 10m

      • Ryan S. says:

        Aceves would get my vote right now, but you can’t count out Ian Kennedy. He’s good for 190+ innings and who knows? Maybe he blows everybody away.

        • A.D. says:

          open tryout in ST, probably depends on just how much command IPK has of his breaking pitches

        • ryan says:

          I wouldn’t bet against any of these prospects. Guys who weren’t suppose to be that good seem to spring up outta nowhere and dominate nevermind a highly touted prospect like kennedy(he was highly touted by all at one point remember). It’s just way more exciting when they can have a tryout amongst the kids for the 5th spot. Whether or not it makes the most baseball sense is another story but I personally enjoy giving these prospects opportunities.

    • Chris C. says:

      “It’s probably his agents running this show and Pettitte is probably gonna step in and say ” get er done” real soon.”

      Oh, of course. The AROD defense.
      Funny how these guys sit back and let their agents drag their names through the mud so long as it’s in the name of more money.
      Then when it becomes apparent that more money aint coming and their reputation is taking a hit, it’s all of a sudden their agent’s fault and they were in the dark the whole time and gave no approvals to all this zany hijinx and Tom Foolery!

  13. Lanny says:

    I hope he spreads that 10 mill around the bench.

  14. Gsloot says:

    What kind of fish could a 10 million dollar net cost?

    Mulder, Prior, and you may still have enough to hire Ralph Machio to play Andy Pettitte in his life story.

  15. Ryan S. says:

    I don’t think God was thanked enough in those Longhorns victory speeches.

    • Abe says:

      It’s funny you say that – I was just thinking that.

      You think if he threw a pick there he would have thrown God under the bus?

  16. Phil McCracken says:

    If you could get Sheets for around 2 years/24M, I’d tell Andy to take his HGH to the Dodgers.

  17. Bill says:

    Matsui for Washburn anyone?

  18. MEYTRIX7 says:

    SIGN O PEREZ FORMER MET HE STIRKES OUT MORE THEN ANDY IS 10 YRS YOUNGER AND THRIVES IN FRONT OF BIG CROWDS HE ACTUALLY COULD BE YANKS SLEEPER ACE IN 09 SIGN HIM UP!

  19. Phil McCracken says:

    At this point, I’d almost rather Pavano back on the cheap with his arm at full strength after a having this off season to strengthen it.

    1 year deal to buy a new Porsche and prove himself.

  20. MEYTRIX7 says:

    TRADE NADY KENNEDY AND MELKY FOR CARDS CF ANKIEL THIS GUY IS SPECIAL

  21. MEYTRIX7 says:

    PEREZ WAS 5-1 AGANIST YANKS OVER 10 K’S PER GAME LOL YESSSSS

  22. X-Man(Angel) says:

    Fu** you Andy

  23. Jamal G. says:

    Wow, I’m watching Chris Chambliss round the bases on his pennant-winning Home Run and fans are literally trying to rip the helmet off Chambilss’ head as he rounds the bases. Unbelievable.

  24. The Evil Empire says:

    Ben Sheets it is.

    • anonymous says:

      Considering Brad Penny got a shot before Sheets Id say thats probably not likely.

      Im afraid we may end up doing something stupid with Seattle now and signing Manny afterwards.

  25. Harry G says:

    http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....1033732206

    Hey y’all, Check out MLB Network’s Hot Stove crew, Harold Renolds, Joe Magrane, and Mitch Williams, as they preview the AL East….
    2 points: Notice what Magrane says about Cito Gaston joining the Blue Jays as manager last season. “One of the things that bothered Cito was the fact that they took” hold your breath now… “too much pitches, trying to pump up that On Base Percentage. He said ‘Guys, swing the bat! Make yourselves dangerous!’”
    R U KIDDIN ME?! “TOO MUCH PITCHES??????????” Did I hear correctly? A manager was pissed that his team was takin too many pitches and wearing down opposing starters?!
    Wow. That’s the second most ridiculous thing i’ve heard in my life….
    What’s THE most ridiculous thing i’ve ever heard, you ask? Well, it’s not that far away from the first one… Apparently, one bonehead statement leads to another…
    When discussing the Yanks’ big-time pitching additions, the conversation of course shifted towards… You guessed it, JOBA NEEDS TO BE A SETUP-MAN!!! The logic, of course, is that now that the Yanks have “enough” pitching, there’s no need to keep Joba in the rotation.
    Says Magrane, “If Joba Chamberlain is setting up to Mariano Rivera…that’s gonna make it a lot easier on those starters…” Now get this, “BECAUSE I DON’T THINK THERE’S ANY WAY YOU CAN HAVE HIM IN THE ROTATION”!!!! And Williams goes “No, [there's no way Joba can be in the rotation] I totally agree with you.”
    Ya heard Cashman? Joe Magrane and Mitch Williams don’t let you put Joba in the rotation…
    Sick, just plain sick, y’all..
    Old-school baseball insanity at its best…

  26. CB says:

    I love Andy, but he’s become delusional; the Yankees have treated him like gold over the last two seasons, and a $10 million offer (considering his second-half slide and the $8 million Randy Johnson got) is certainly not an insult. You know what I hope happens, assuming Pettitte is gone? We sign Jon Garland; he’s a step down from Pettitte, but he’s fairly comparable anyway and is a more-than-adequate No. 5. I’m quite wary of relying on two kids, not to mention the oft-injured Burnett, as a large chunk of the rotation. Garland would be a cost-effective, solid fifth guy who can give you 30-plus starts, double-digit wins and a sub-5.00 ERA.

    • whozat says:

      “Garland would be a cost-effective, solid fifth guy who can give you 30-plus starts, double-digit wins and a sub-5.00 ERA.”

      I don’t know that that’s true. Garland’s peripherals are really poor, and he benefited greatly from the ChiSox and Angels’ infield D. He, to me, seems like a pretty awful fit for the Yanks. Also…I don’t see him taking a one year deal. And I’m not excited about forcing Hughes to spend more time on the Scranton Shuttle in 2010 just for the added stability I get in 2009.

      Frankly, if they can’t get pettitte…take a couple injury fliers and add them to Ian and Phil as depth behind Aceves, Joba and Burnett.

  27. Matt Nyc says:

    I think the best option is a one year deal to sheets. Sheets might accept in order to re-establish himself for free agency. Something like 1 year 12 million might get it done. If not go with Hughes at the 5 and Aceves as the long man/spot starter.

    I use to love pettite (first yankee term) but after getting a 1 year 16 million dollar contract and immediately being accused of steroids and embarrassing the yankees followed up by a sub-par year in which he fell apart down the stretch, I think he has to take a pay cut.

    His 2008 season was not worth 16 million. He is a year older, injury prone and coming off an admission of steroid use which tarnished the franchise he has to understand that he must take a pay cut. If he so badly wants to play in the new stadium take the 10 million.

    I hope Pettite goes to the dodgers for 12 million and has an awful season. 5+ era.

  28. MEYTRIX7 says:

    ANDYS WASHED UP 10 MILLION GREAT DEPRESSION TO ANDY

    • gxpanos says:

      I mean, I know that it’s generally a bad idea to reply to trolls, but I actually laughed at every one of his posts. Plus, his name is “Meytrix”! Brilliant ironic interweb name.

      I wish the Yanks would stop pinching pennies with this, I’m getting a LITTLE worried about Andy not coming back. I think they need the innings, and his peripherals were in line with 07, I think. He might have just had some bad luck. Throw him 12 or 13 and be done with it.

  29. Matt Nyc says:

    I definitely can see what Cito gaston was saying. It is possible to take too many pitches. I can understand cito wanting some of his players to be more agressive possibly Lyle Overbay who has the potential to hit for more power than he does, if he is more agressive, alot like John Olerud.

  30. Coach says:

    What’s an additional 5 mil on top of Andy’s 10? Just get Lowe and have it be done. It would be worth it just to hear all the little brother Metros fans whine and complain.

    Even with that extra 5, there is 26 coming off the books with Matsui and Damon after this year, you can have Lowe and Holliday for not much more than Matsui and Damon.

    • Mike Pop says:

      No, Lowe would screw our future rotation flexibility. And he will not take a 1 year deal. We will not sign Lowe and I would not even consider it.

      Its Andy for no more than 12 or wwe go with what we have within.

      • Until I see that one of the other non-Andy options (Lowe, Sheets, Wolf, Pavano, Mulder, Smoltz) is willing to take a one year deal, I’m not interested in any of them.

        And yes, I left Oliver Perez and Jon Garland off that list of non-Andy options intentionally. They suck, they’re not under any consideration. Frankly, they’re both Ponsnerian.

  31. Tooch says:

    Here’s a curveball of sorts that nobody’s mentioned…

    How about John Smoltz?

  32. Mike Pop says:

    This does piss me off though. What can you do with 12 million that you cant with 10? Plus your going to get the bonuses once we win the W.S… Come on Andy, we need you.

  33. The Evil Empire says:

    C.C
    Burnett
    Wang
    Sheets
    Joba

    Haha, imagine the yankees lose 40 or less games this year, 120+ wins!

  34. Joe, are you really using ERA as evidence? I mean, in this day in age… oh well.

    If its of any significance, his K/BB was actually his highest since ’05 (w/ Houston).

    Also, while I don’t know the figure off the top of my head, his FIP was significantly lower than his ERA in 2008, which basically says that he got completely and utterly screwed by Lady Luck (and the Yankees’ defense).

    If he’ll have $12-13 million, I say bring him back for one year. No more.

  35. Josh says:

    The most telling part in the NY Times article is this quote from Andy: ““Obviously anyone else would say, ‘I’ll go wherever I want to,’ because people want to try to get the most money,” Pettitte said before a Yankees-Angels game in Anaheim, Calif. “But, I mean, I’m not going anywhere, you know what I’m saying? The Yankees know me enough, it’s not like I’m going to hold out. I guess if I had spent all my money or whatever, it might be different. But it’s not about that, really, anymore.”

    I used to be a fan of Pettitte, even during the HGH fiasco, but now I think he’s a big phony. The Yankee organization has been nothing but loyal to the guy – he owes them yet he’s holding out for more money. Andy-I’ve been unemployed for over a year. 99.9% of the population would kill for a $10 million payday. For $10 mil, I’d clean the bathrooms in the Stadium. For your $10 million paycheck, all you’d have to do is pitch every five days…

    • Mike P says:

      Were they loyal to him in 2003? Loyalty works both ways. I think, more than anything, Pettite is pissed off with the Yankees negotiating stance. Which is: no negotiating. He has the right to believe he’s worth a little more than $10 million. And when the Yankees throw money around like they have, them telling him they won’t even up the offer to $11 million- which is still a fair price- can be seen as pretty insulting.

      A lot of people seem to have lost the love for Andy. I don’t get it. It’s easy to see why he might refuse the Yanks offer and the notion he owes them something is false. The Yankees owe And as much as Andy owes the Yanks.

      • jeremy says:

        In 03′ the Yankees made Petitte a comparable offer to what the Astros had out there. By many accounts it was actually more. Petitte wanted to be in Houston with his family and his buddy Roger. Of course there is nothing wrong with wanting to be near your family, but the Yankees didn’t kick him to the curb like most seem to think.

        • Ed says:

          The Yankees didn’t make Pettitte a comparable offer. Their final offer was made a few hours after Pettitte already accepted the Astros offer, and in that offer only two of the three years in the deal were guaranteed.

  36. HEY LETS TRADE NADY FOR JOSE GUILLEN — I HEAR HE SWINGS HARD

    • The Evil Empire says:

      I think it’s safe to assume that you’ve changed your name to look like a RAB regular, (if you did) go back to overthemonster.com, looks like you let two little rings along with a bad off season get to your head.

  37. Januz says:

    I would go with Phil Hughes. Andy was my favorite Post-Paul O’Neill player until the steroid issue came out. He is showing his true colors right now. Nothing but greedy and self delusional. Let him go.

  38. swedski says:

    I think Pavano is a good option. I know everyone will scream American Idol, BUT sign him for 2 with incentives, let him work his way back to free agency in a year. If he doesn’t pan out use Aceves or Kennedy. Nothing lost but small money.

    • ryan says:

      hell no. I’d rather go with sheets, at least he has the stuff to go along with his injures.

      • Should be working says:

        Doesnt matter what stuff you have if you cant throw.

        • ryan says:

          so you’d rather go with pavano? more likely to be able to throw? don’t know what the medical records look like but goin off the last 4 yrs kinda makes me pick sheets. also….doens’t matter if u can throw if you have no stuff, he just flat out sucks even when he is healthy.

          • Should be working says:

            Yeah well if you compared the actual injruies they had and the fact that Sheets ended injured and Pavano was healthy he’ll be cheaper and better than alot of other options.

            • swedski says:

              Roll the dice here for low money and incentives. Sheets, Pavano and Penny all are in the same boat. Sox picked up Penny in a good move that could be great for them or could just just die. I like Sheets as much as Pavano so like I said before roll the dice

              • I Remember Celarino Sanchez says:

                Except that Sheets will get more than double what Penny got, while Pavano will not get half what Penny got.

  39. JeffG says:

    All the sour comments geared toward Pettitte because he is letting his agents do their job are sad and misplaced. All players and agents try to secure a fair money contract. He may not be worth 16 but I’d say he is worth more than 10. But because he is not jumping he’s the bad guy? Absolutely boggles my mind. Were people hating Sabathia when he didn’t jump at 140 million?
    Andy has been nothing but good to the Yankees. He could have shut it down in August and finished strong in September but he didn’t. He pitched for us and took his lumps. He gives innings. He’s left handed. And he’s still good enough to pitch in the AL East. Is he that much worse than Lowe? In my opinion Lowe would not be too much better and he’s asking for multi-years.
    I’ll concede his admission that he wanted to play for no other team was dumb. He didn’t owe us that and now fans are getting on him for it. Perhaps I just don’t get it.

    • ryan says:

      your 99 % right. Andy’s agents are doing their job that’s all. But andy let the yanks down when they needed him most during the second half by winning just 4 of his last 13 starts with a 5.35 ERA. Maybe if he shut it down in august he would’ve saved the yanks the trouble of depending on his poor performance to get into the post season. Pettitte also brought The Balco stigma over with him as well conveinently after his contract was signed.

      • Mike P says:

        Come on man Pettite let the Yanks down when they needed him most? He’s had what, one year with a bad second half when he was hurt? Baseball needs more Andy Pettites. I agree with Jeff, there’s no reason to hate on Andy for this contract issue. In fact, I’m a little annoyed with the Yanks for their stance. It’s not like $10 million is a high offer. Whatever the negotiations, if you go in, put an offer on the table and say: “There you go, take it or leave”, that’s going to upset the counterparty. I’m not surprised Andy turned it down.

        Remember all those people who called out the Yankees for making Torre an offer he couldn’t accept. This isn’t quite the same extent, but where are they now?

        • ryan says:

          yes he let them down when they needed him most. He had a career worst second half when the yanks needed him to be just a 500 pitcher. He was shut down with a sore shoulder and is 37 yrs old now? why should none of these things factor into the equation? the mets just signed KRod to a 4 yr 37 mill contract, he is goining to reshape their team at under 12 mill a yr and pettitte wants 16 to be a 5th starter coming off a below average yr. Should these things be ingnored? what do u think every other team pays aging starters with declining numbers a yr? didn’t jamie moyer just have a great yr and get 2 yrs 16 mill? so pettitte should get paid twice as much cuz he’s use to it? poor reasoning in my opinion.

          • Mike P says:

            I doubt Pettite expects to be paid $16 million. I’m sure he’d like to, but he probably knows there’s no chance of that. Like anyone else, he wants to negotiate a little more. Problem for him is the Yanks refuse to negotiate. It’s pretty hard to tell what he’s worth at the moment. There are worse players who make more and he could also expect more than 1 year if he considered playing for other teams. So all in all $10 million for 1 year isn’t bad for the Yanks.

            What I’m saying, and I think others argree, is that given how hard it is to know what he’s truly worth, given he’s taking a fair pay cut and given it’s only 1 year for a workhorse, why squabble over $1-2 million. Pettite will either be a bust or be well worth his contract, whether it be $10. $11 or $12 million.

        • MattG says:

          I don’t like Andy Pettitte. I don’t like his pitching ability, and I don’t like his personality. I cringe whenever I see a quote attributed to him. I find his act to be phony.

          Pettitte accepted about 70% of the money the Yankees offered when he went to Houston. Ordinarily, I would’ve liked for a player to take less money for other concepts of value–but Pettitte turned it into some petty personality thing. At the time, we were told his MRIs indicated his elbow ligament was tattered, yet $39M over 3 years was an insult. Of course, he missed nearly the entire 2nd year of that contract–probably the best case scenario–so the MRIs turned out to be accurate.

          The Yankees were mercilessly criticized for those negotiations, and it was all due to Pettitte’s whining.

          That’s when Andy Pettitte let the Yankees down. And he hasn’t changed a bit. $10M for one year is an above market offer. The gracious thing would’ve been to have accepted a month ago, or declined with humility, not all this whining bullcrap. Good riddance.

          • ryan says:

            I didn’t know all those details….interesting. Turns out he’s been unreasonable for a long time now. God forbid pettitte gets piad accordingly for once. We outbid the astros for his services in 07 and it costed the yanks 16 mill. The yanks were loyal enough to grant him that same contract even after he turned down the player option in his contract. He is not the same pitcher he was in 07 and is not being asked back as the #2. He is 2 yrs older and want’s no pay cut for his diminshed ability to perform. Does anyone think he was worth the 16 million of loyalty the yanks showed him considering the season he had? Maybe just maybe the yanks can pay someone what they are actually worth for a change.

            • JeffG says:

              Fair enough – he was not woth 16 million last year. But overall he has earned far more on his contracts than a lot of our other signings. I guarantee he won’t be making 16 this year but at the same time I do not fault his agents for trying to get more than 10. Signing year to year gives the team value as well so I’d like to see what better player goes for a cheaper contract.

          • JeffG says:

            Find me one quote with Andy Pettitte’s words where he is whining. The only thing that I have read is he wants to play for the Yankees in the new stadium and that he is letting his agents negotiate a contract from him. How does that become whining?
            Some yankee fans on the other hand who think like a third grader and get emotional over contract negotiations might show you better example of the crying and moaning you are talking about.
            Just think about it… if you were a baseball player wouldn’t you just let your agent work to get you the best deal? Why do fans get all pissy over that? If Cashman doesn’t think he is worth what Pettitte won’t settle without then both parties move on – plain and simple. I’m hoping there is a happy middle. We could sure use him.

            • jeremy says:

              I think whining is a poor word choice. But using the “My agents are negotiating a deal for me” scapegoat tactic is just hollow. Petitte could have ended this a long time ago, by telling his agents I want to play in New York, with the Yankees, I want to sign this deal. There is no market above $10 mil. for him out there. The truth is he knows the Yanks PR machine has forced the front office to cave to long-time Yankee player’s demands in the past. for fear of retribution from the fans, and he’s hoping for the same here. He also knows are the only team who would add more money to that number.

              • MattG says:

                No, I think whining is the right word. I spent the off-season of ’02 (or whenever it was) defending the Yankees to Met fans just loving all the crap Pettitte was giving out. I don’t have the quotes, but the gist is etched in my memory–Not sure they really want me back, I wish the Yankees would’ve shown a little more effort, blah blah blah. If it’s a negotiation, you don’t make it personal. If its personal, you don’t make it a negotiation.

                It’s the FA version of shit or get off the pot.

              • JeffG says:

                What if the Braves, Phillies, or Rangers GM had a two yr 25 mil offer out there? I wouldn’t say that is out of the realm of possibility. I’d bet a lot of my money to say that there will be a higher offer out than 1yr 10mil.
                You’re right though he could stop his agent from doing their job and leave a more money on the table. Most players do that. I’m sure you would too.

                • MattG says:

                  That’s not my point. This is: is it about money, or something else? Pettitte wants it both ways.

                  Remember when Pettitte came back, Houston was offering $12, and the Yankees $16M? And what did Pettitte do–he announced to the press that if Houston ups their offer to $14M, he will take their offer instead.

                  What is that? Is that about money, or family values? You can’t have it both ways. That is inappropriate to me. That is Pettitte saying, “I don’t care about money, but give me more money.” Maybe you do that in private–maybe, but to make it public is immature cry-baby stuff. He made Houston look bad–he went out of his way to do so–just like he did to the Yankees three years earlier.

                  I wouldn’t do that. I would thank Houston for their generous offer, and say at this time in my life, I would prefer a higher annual salary to my Houston lifestyle.

                  I am not saying Pettitte is being particularly whiny right now, but he was a disgraceful baby then, and I expect he is behaving the same. I don’t read the papers anymore, so I don’t really know.

          • Ed says:

            Pettitte accepted about 70% of the money the Yankees offered when he went to Houston. Ordinarily, I would’ve liked for a player to take less money for other concepts of value–but Pettitte turned it into some petty personality thing. At the time, we were told his MRIs indicated his elbow ligament was tattered, yet $39M over 3 years was an insult. Of course, he missed nearly the entire 2nd year of that contract–probably the best case scenario–so the MRIs turned out to be accurate.

            That’s not even close to right. The Yankees were offering him 3/$30 to start with. The fuss was because of how they viewed Pettitte’s previous contract. His old deal (with option year included) was for 4/$37m, with pay increases each year. The final year was worth $11.5m. Pettitte considered the new offer a paycut, as he compared the value to the final year of his previous deal. The Yankees considered it a raise, as the AAV was higher.

            The Yankees final offer was for about 3/$39, but only the first two years were guaranteed. I’ve heard different versions of the story, but most versions (including Pettitte’s) say the Yankees didn’t even present this offer until a few hours after Pettitte said yes to Houston.

            Second, the MRIs in question are from early 2002. The doctors said he may need Tommy John surgery, however, he might be able to rehab the elbow and avoid surgery. Generally speaking, when pitchers get a diagnosis like that, if the rehab doesn’t work, they end up blowing out their elbow shortly after returning to game action. Considering Pettitte pitched a season and a half without issue after the diagnosis, it was fairly safe to assume he was going to be ok.

            Third, the elbow problem Pettitte had in Houston was a torn flexor tendon. It was a freak accident and it was completely unrelated to the concerns the Yankees had.

            • MattG says:

              I have a different recollection, which I stand by. Only the first 2 years were guaranteed? That would make it a two year deal with a team option. That is not how I remember it at all, and I think you are wrong.

              I also find it dubious that the Yankees would be warned of an elbow injury, then Pettitte suffered an elbow injury, and you would regard that as a freak accident. Even if it were a shoulder, hip, knee, or whatever, all things in the human body are related, and when something is not right, injuries occur.

              Finally, even if I have every fact wrong, Pettitte’s public manipulation of his contract negotiations are enough to make me cringe. A man does not stand and speak about God and family values from one side of his face, while asking for more money from the other. Do that in private if you must, and just tell us what you decide.

              • Ed says:

                From the NY Times:

                “The Yankees’ initial offer of three years at $30 million came just before Pettitte filed for free agency…”

                “In the end, Cashman said, the Yankees offered three years and $39 million, but only the first two years of the contract would have been guaranteed. Randy Hendricks, who represents Pettitte with his brother Alan, said the third year would have been nullified if Pettitte had spent extensive time on the disabled list in 2005.”

                Ligaments and tendons, while located near each other, perform different functions and react to different stresses. About the only way for a ligament injury to cause a tendon injury is to try using the joint after completely tearing the ligament. But at that point you’d be in horrible pain and barely be able to move the joint at all.

                Pettitte’s tendon injury occured during an awkward check swing, with no prior tendon issues, hence it being a freak injury.

                A man does not stand and speak about God and family values from one side of his face, while asking for more money from the other.

                Why not? Does believing in God and family somehow mean you’re not allowed to negotiate your salary?

                • MattG says:

                  Fine, I guess I am wrong–although…He got 3 years, 31.5M from Houston, right? And the Yankees had 3 and 30 on the table? That sounds like something to whine about?

                  You see nothing immature about Pettitte’s negotiations, truthfully? First, he made the Yankees look bad, then turned around 3 years later and did the same to the Astros. Low and behold, here’s a repeat performance. At some point, might we suggest the player is culpable?

                  What does Andy Pettitte want? More money. What does Andy Pettitte say? Its not about the money–I only want to play for the Yankees–I’m not sure the Yankees really want me….

                • Ed says:

                  Fine, I guess I am wrong–although…He got 3 years, 31.5M from Houston, right? And the Yankees had 3 and 30 on the table? That sounds like something to whine about?

                  The market at the time was about $12 million a year. Boston offered him $48m/4. He just came off a 21-8 season, including an impressive postseason run capped by two completely dominating World Series starts. The Yankees responded to that by offering him a pay cut. I doubt you’ll find many people who wouldn’t be insulted by that.

                  You see nothing immature about Pettitte’s negotiations, truthfully?

                  I would say Pettitte is immature in the sense that he speaks his preferences to the press and then expects that not to come into play in the negotiations.

                  What does Andy Pettitte want? More money. What does Andy Pettitte say? Its not about the money–I only want to play for the Yankees–I’m not sure the Yankees really want me….

                  He hasn’t said it’s not about the money. He said it’s Yankees or retirement. That doesn’t mean he should just accept a lowball first offer. He’s better than a Washburn/Silva type pitcher but was offered less. The Yankees aren’t exactly strapped on cash here, so it’s not a low offer out of necessity. If he didn’t make his “Yankees or retirement” statements, we’d probably be talking an $11-12m offer instead of the $10m figure.

  40. Should be working says:

    Im surprised I havent seen a post yet on Mitre getting suspended for 50 games. Any thoughts?

      • Should be working says:

        Thank you sir. Not much action goin on and lord knows I dont want to work!

        • On time as always, Joe, you’re like clockwork. Great job. You guys are on top of your game as always.

          Speaking of being on top of your game as always, have I mentioned that I won the Inaugural RAB Fantasy Football League Championship?

          I was the textbook definition of “being on top of your game”. Both literally and figuratively. I was on top of my game figuratively, because I had a brilliant, otherworldly good draft where my superior intellect and rugged good looks allowed me to hoodwink all you peons into getting the best players.

          And, I was on top of my game literally, because I beat the snot out of Mike, Rafi, jsbrendog, SAMIAMSPORTS, and you, Joe, on my way to the title, where I stood on top of the game as its unquestioned master. Hence, the game, and league, are mine, and I am atop it.

          [ Fantasy Football Championship Bragging Rights Name Drop #20 of 1000 ]

  41. Ace says:

    I say let Phil Hughes pitch

    or

    wait to see if Sheets is only going to get a 1 year deal from the Brewers and then offer him $1 million more than they do.

    • ryan says:

      might work considering if they do sign sheets hughes will probably end up pitching anyways at some point when sheets flares up.

  42. Bo says:

    The Mets should give Pettitte 12. He’d make their rotation deep. The Sox could also use him as a 5th starter and tweaking the Yanks wouldnt hurt either.

  43. Phil Cashier says:

    The Yanks should sign Pettitte and limit him to around 25 starts using Hughes, IPK, Aceves to fill in the other starts for him & Joba.

  44. MattG says:

    Randy Wolf: 2 years, $19M. Vested third year with 50 starts over the first 2.

    32 years old, solid BB/K, BB/9 and K/9 rates, solid FIPs and FIP projections that he might exceed as a homer-prone lefty by moving into Yankee Stadium.

    Is he type A? Doubtful.

    • Ryan S. says:

      I’d be ok for Wolf on a 1 year deal, which is highly unlikely though. I REALLY want to make sure there’s a spot open for Hughes in 2010.

      • Stryker says:

        why 2010? hughes is ready for the major league rotation NOW. why throw him in AAA? so he stunt his “growth” so to speak and practically own AAA hitters moreso than he already has?!

        it’s my opinion that hughes has nothing left to learn in the minors and needs to do all his further development in the majors.

        • ryan says:

          I agree that hughes would be good now but there’s always somethin to learn. He has trouble with his change and that is essential to his sucess.

        • Ryan S. says:

          Hughes hasn’t even had a full year of AAA, is only 22 years old, and he still has an innings limit. I’d like to see him be the #6 starter for when someone inevitably goes on the DL. That isn’t stunting his growth at all . I’d rather stagger implementing Joba and Hughes over the course of 2 years and let Aceves, or even IPK if he blows everyone away in ST take the final rotation spot. Both of those guys are good for about 180+ innings. Otherwise you’re only getting 300 innings max from your #4 and #5 starters this year.

      • GG says:

        Wolf couldnt ptich in the AL, especially AL East

  45. Pastafarian says:

    We should put Andy’s 16 million that he got last year to Lowe with a vesting option.

    • Reggie C. says:

      Sure. B/c he’ll take a 1 year guaranteed offer at the age of 36.

      • Pastafarian says:

        What why not? I would say a 1 one year deal would work for both…. the Yankees b/c they would like to see if he could preform in New York and for Lowe the 1 year deal with a vesting option would work great incase he doesn’t like New York and wants to leave. I understand the fact that he’s 36 and a 1 year deal seems like a no no for an older player, but he’s a contact to ball pitcher unlike Burnett who strikes people so the Yankees (instead of signing the big contract) would rather test him than sign him to a multi year deal.

  46. Stryker says:

    as per ken rosenthal:

    Brian Fuentes’ agent had serious talks with the Yankees, but no offer was made. Fuentes would’ve been Mariano Rivera’s set-up man and perhaps taken over upon his retirement.

    taken over upon mo’s retirement? brian fuentes? nah.

    • Ryan S. says:

      I’m sure the Yanks have had “serious talks” with just about every top tier FA out there.

    • Reggie C. says:

      The Fuentes addition would’ve defintely ended the Joba-to-the-’pen talk. A pen highlighted by Mo, Marte, and Fuentes is clearly tops in baseball. Still you can’t fault the non-signing as Marte came on for cheap and the upside of both Coke and Melancon.

  47. milt mankoff says:

    Andy is such a religious guy I wonder WWJD. He’d surely not be overly concernd with money and making an obscene amount when the country is going through a near economic collapse…unless, of course, Andy plans to give almost all away in charity. Although an atheist myself. I respect Christians who actually take Christ’s life and teaching seriously. I take my hat off to Andy as the pitcher of some great games, but put it back on when he puts his spiritual life on his sleeve and then cares only about making more money.

  48. The Ed(itor) says:

    I thought Pettitte was “DONE” at the end of last season and should have retired. Obviously Andy needs the money. I would prefer to let one of the rookies earn the #5 starter. I would not be upset if the Yanks signed Sheets or Perez. Bye Bye ANDY!

  49. ryan says:

    I seem to remember another 37 yr old pitcher who actually came off a good contract yr 15-7 3.51 ERA. This player signed with the yanks for 2 yrs 22 mill. that’s a 11 mill a yr for someone who actually earned it. who is this pitcher that was paid accordingly and should be used as a referance? MIKE MUSSINA! you can argue pettitte is yr to yr and that’s the reason for this high annual salary but moose out performed him and received the same “insulting amount” but accepted it without much fuss.

    • Mike Mussina’s 2008 was all-types of unlikely.

      • ryan says:

        2007 was a career low and 2008 was a career high. Im basing my point not on the future numbers no one can predict but on his career, age, and contract yr. Moose got his contract from performing in 2006 not for yrs he didn’t even pitch yet.

    • MattG says:

      Pettitte was never the pitcher Mussina was. And he was never as healthy, either.

      • ryan says:

        100% agree moose is my fave yankee pitcher.RIP.

      • Ed says:

        Pettitte made at least 31 starts in 12 of his 14 seasons. Mussina made 31 starts in 11 of his 16 full seasons (not counting his rookie year or the strike year).

        I’d say Pettitte has had more severe injuries but Mussina was injured more often.

    • JeffG says:

      Just something to think about and correct me if I’m wrong but Mussina signed that contract early in the off season right before pitching contracts really exploded. Him taking that money didn’t seem like that big of a discount until a couple of weeks later. Half way through that off season the singings were becomming shocking and I don’t think many (including Mussina’s agent) saw it comming.

      • ryan says:

        probably right .. I’d say that means moose knew he was an older pitcher and saw a fair contract and didn’t let bickering over a few mill stand btwn him and playing for the yankees. Moose after coming off that strong 06 season could have easily gone out and played the FA game like pettitte is doing. Im pretty sure he could’ve made more than pavano considering his record of durability.

  50. Balls Deep says:

    Give Andy an extra $2Mil… rather $12M for a known quantity that still has very good #’s as compared to other lefties… 3rd behind CC and Santana… 1 year at a time; give him a hug and remind him that they had his back when he kept doing his “oops, sorry I did HGH” press conferences.

    • MattG says:

      Did you mean to say Pettitte is the third best lefthander in the game?

      • ryan says:

        Lester, kazmir and hammels anyone?

        • Balls Deep says:

          Sorry, was at lunch… Andy’s stats of pure pitcher vs hitter… K’s, HR’s, BB’s are 3rd behind CC and Johann… better than Lester, Kasmir and Hammels… Hammels is a stud, Kasmir gets hurt more than Ben Sheets and Lester is good, not that good yet.

  51. dimsum says:

    I think the best use of the 10 million dollars is to use it for some over slot draft day “lotto tickets” and lets the kids fight for the 5th slot.

    If we decide we need an old, overpriced lefty for the rotation we can get Washburn from Seattle.

    • I’d imagine we’re going to pay an overslot bonus to whomever we draft, irrespective of what we do with Andy Pettitte.

      Two different expenditure lines on the balance sheet.

      • dimsum says:

        You might be surprised to hear that with all of the crazy bonus numbers the Yankees draft budget is about the same every year 6-8 mil or so. They could budget 18 mil next year and take nothing but high risk high reward guys.

        My bet is that those draftees would have a much more significant impact on the Yankees future than Andy Pettitte. You might also find the next batch of aging stars stop asking to be paid as all stars.

        If Pettitte doesn’t think going out as a Yankee is worth taking a little less I don’t want to try to convince him otherwise. I can appreciate that 10 million dolars might not make it worth suffering through another year in that uniform.

        • They could budget 18 mil next year and take nothing but high risk high reward guys.

          We couldn’t possibly draft as many high-ceiling guys as it would take to spend 18M on the draft.

          Even if we hadn’t signed CC/Tex/AJ and we still have all those picks, there’s still no way we spend 18M on one draft without having like 5 picks in the first 15. One or two true blue-chip signability guys can fall to us, not 7 or 8.

          • dimsum says:

            You wouldn’t have to do it all in one season but if you you drafted nothing but virtually unsignable players and paid what it took to sign them all you could easily exceed 18 mil. You probably wouldn’t want to but to say it is impossible is flat out wrong.

  52. joeyD says:

    I love Andy and always will but it’s the principal here. It seems that players are starting to say I am worth X so I’m going to ask the Yanks for X+2Mil or X+4Mil just because they are the Yankees and I know they can afford it.

    When you are the best free agent pitcher in baseball or you’re the premier free-agent hitter that’s one thing, but when you are an over the hill pitcher coming off perhaps your worst year as a major leaguer, that’s a different story.

    I say use Hughes, Asceves, Kennedy, Geise or…whoever wins the job in spring training.

  53. dimsum says:

    Of course if I wanted to keep him I would add a personal services contract and delay a lot of this years money so I could give him a 12m headline value but on a deal only worth 10m in current dollars.

  54. emac2 says:

    No Bread For the PED head!

  55. kSturnz says:

    it is one thing to overpay for CC or Tex, but to overpay for Pettitte would be stupid. Just look at what Burrel and Ibanez got. no way should Andy make more than 10 mil, and even 10 million is pushing it in this economy

  56. [...] Basically, Sherman’s premise is that the Yanks are going to respond to Pettitte’s supposedly rejection of their $10-million offer by — wait for it — lowering their [...]

  57. [...] the lefthander might be softening on his opposition to rejoining the Astros.” Once Pettitte rejected the Yankees $10 million offer, this development became inevitable. Pettitte hails from Texas and spent three years pitching in [...]

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