Comments on: Torre, the Yanks and the Hall of Fame http://riveraveblues.com/2009/01/torre-the-yanks-and-the-hall-of-fame-7398/ A New York Yankees Blog Mon, 28 May 2012 05:01:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: NYY fan http://riveraveblues.com/2009/01/torre-the-yanks-and-the-hall-of-fame-7398/#comment-353511 NYY fan Tue, 28 Apr 2009 01:22:44 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=7398#comment-353511 " Speaking for myself here" I am a huge NYY fan and i would think of all of the things Joe Torre goes throgh is tough and i voted yes ” Speaking for myself here” I am a huge NYY fan and i would think of all of the things Joe Torre goes throgh is tough and i voted yes

]]> By: Evan in NYC http://riveraveblues.com/2009/01/torre-the-yanks-and-the-hall-of-fame-7398/#comment-271490 Evan in NYC Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:36:50 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=7398#comment-271490 As we have already seen this year, the sports writers who induct members into thte Hall of Fame are stupid enough to let something ike this blind them from the fact that Joe Torre led the Yankees to 4 WS titles in5 years. This, overall, will not tarnish his reputation for the Hall, but it will tarnish his reputation amongst Yankee faithful. He will not have his #6 retired, he will not be welcome in the new stadium, and when he does get elected he WILL be wearing a Yankees hat to many dismay. Joe Torre ruined his Yankee legacy, not his baseball legacy. As we have already seen this year, the sports writers who induct members into thte Hall of Fame are stupid enough to let something ike this blind them from the fact that Joe Torre led the Yankees to 4 WS titles in5 years. This, overall, will not tarnish his reputation for the Hall, but it will tarnish his reputation amongst Yankee faithful. He will not have his #6 retired, he will not be welcome in the new stadium, and when he does get elected he WILL be wearing a Yankees hat to many dismay. Joe Torre ruined his Yankee legacy, not his baseball legacy.

]]> By: Ben K. http://riveraveblues.com/2009/01/torre-the-yanks-and-the-hall-of-fame-7398/#comment-271295 Ben K. Fri, 30 Jan 2009 05:03:04 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=7398#comment-271295 Thanks, Drew. The 1107 people who voted seem to disagree with you. That's some constructive criticism you've offered up on a post that generated a lot of discussion on a slow January day. Thanks, Drew. The 1107 people who voted seem to disagree with you. That’s some constructive criticism you’ve offered up on a post that generated a lot of discussion on a slow January day.

]]> By: Drew http://riveraveblues.com/2009/01/torre-the-yanks-and-the-hall-of-fame-7398/#comment-271292 Drew Fri, 30 Jan 2009 04:59:21 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=7398#comment-271292 I have to say, that is the most pointless poll ever!!! I have to say, that is the most pointless poll ever!!!

]]> By: Rollingwave http://riveraveblues.com/2009/01/torre-the-yanks-and-the-hall-of-fame-7398/#comment-271238 Rollingwave Fri, 30 Jan 2009 03:24:28 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=7398#comment-271238 Statistically, Torre is actually one of the best players ever not elected i to the hall, anyway so the fact that he had a very long managing career in itself is reason enough to elect him. hell, as a player, Torre was worth more than Jim Rice, by a good margin WARP3 of Torre vs some of the less deserving HOFer. Torre: 101.2 Rice: 80.2 Puckett: 87.1 (holy shit Rice is even worse than Puckett) Scooter: 75.3 Hell, Torre probably shoulda been a HOFer solely based on his player's career already (albeit a border line one ). Gary Carter had 115.9, Posada's at 87.1 , Po need at about 2 seasson worth of 05 like performance or another 07 like crazy year just to catch Torre. Statistically, Torre is actually one of the best players ever not elected i to the hall, anyway so the fact that he had a very long managing career in itself is reason enough to elect him.

hell, as a player, Torre was worth more than Jim Rice, by a good margin

WARP3 of Torre vs some of the less deserving HOFer.

Torre: 101.2
Rice: 80.2
Puckett: 87.1 (holy shit Rice is even worse than Puckett)
Scooter: 75.3

Hell, Torre probably shoulda been a HOFer solely based on his player’s career already (albeit a border line one ). Gary Carter had 115.9, Posada’s at 87.1 , Po need at about 2 seasson worth of 05 like performance or another 07 like crazy year just to catch Torre.

]]> By: Jay http://riveraveblues.com/2009/01/torre-the-yanks-and-the-hall-of-fame-7398/#comment-271219 Jay Fri, 30 Jan 2009 03:02:36 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=7398#comment-271219 And when it's time for a player to go because he's not what he once was, the Red Sox understand that and behave accordingly. The Yankees don't even without Torre. But Torre basically made it impossible for management to make hard, unpopular choices. And when it’s time for a player to go because he’s not what he once was, the Red Sox understand that and behave accordingly. The Yankees don’t even without Torre. But Torre basically made it impossible for management to make hard, unpopular choices.

]]> By: Jay http://riveraveblues.com/2009/01/torre-the-yanks-and-the-hall-of-fame-7398/#comment-271216 Jay Fri, 30 Jan 2009 03:00:49 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=7398#comment-271216 In his interactions with ownership, Torre was always nothing more than a big crybaby. It's just that the media enabled him in New York And he always backed up the players against the management moneywise — which may sound like it's what all managers do or seem like it's what a manager has to do. However, (A) it's not what Boston has been doing as they've thrashed our butts year after year with a much lower payroll, and (B) It's a guaranteed prescription for mediocrity — especially in a world of revenue sharing and luxury taxes. Boston's organization, up and down the line — from ownership to management to the coaches to the players to the fans understand that it's not just about having the best players, but what you pay them. How do you turn Albert Pujols, Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter or anyone else from an asset into a liability? Simple. You overpay them. If you gave Albert Pujols a contract for 15 years at $50 million a year, he becomes an albatross around your neck. The Red Sox understand this up and down the organization — which is why an MVP player like Davd Ortiz signs a $13 million a year contract while the Yankees pay Giambi closer to $20 million for a longer term. Torre was as much of a liability or more than he was an asset. Good riddance! In his interactions with ownership, Torre was always nothing more than a big crybaby. It’s just that the media enabled him in New York

And he always backed up the players against the management moneywise — which may sound like it’s what all managers do or seem like it’s what a manager has to do. However, (A) it’s not what Boston has been doing as they’ve thrashed our butts year after year with a much lower payroll, and (B) It’s a guaranteed prescription for mediocrity — especially in a world of revenue sharing and luxury taxes.

Boston’s organization, up and down the line — from ownership to management to the coaches to the players to the fans understand that it’s not just about having the best players, but what you pay them.

How do you turn Albert Pujols, Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter or anyone else from an asset into a liability? Simple. You overpay them. If you gave Albert Pujols a contract for 15 years at $50 million a year, he becomes an albatross around your neck. The Red Sox understand this up and down the organization — which is why an MVP player like Davd Ortiz signs a $13 million a year contract while the Yankees pay Giambi closer to $20 million for a longer term.

Torre was as much of a liability or more than he was an asset. Good riddance!

]]> By: Graig Nettles has Joe Torre’s back… « Zell’s Pinstripe Blog http://riveraveblues.com/2009/01/torre-the-yanks-and-the-hall-of-fame-7398/#comment-271129 Graig Nettles has Joe Torre’s back… « Zell’s Pinstripe Blog Fri, 30 Jan 2009 01:57:33 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=7398#comment-271129 [...] Who Says Jeter Can’t Make A Great Grab?  /  Torre, the Yanks and the Hall of Fame  [...] [...] Who Says Jeter Can’t Make A Great Grab?  /  Torre, the Yanks and the Hall of Fame  [...]

]]> By: tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside http://riveraveblues.com/2009/01/torre-the-yanks-and-the-hall-of-fame-7398/#comment-271034 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:50:14 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=7398#comment-271034 This is true. It's probably a moot point, I doubt the Yankees give out #6 in any event. This is true.

It’s probably a moot point, I doubt the Yankees give out #6 in any event.

]]> By: tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside http://riveraveblues.com/2009/01/torre-the-yanks-and-the-hall-of-fame-7398/#comment-271033 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:49:03 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=7398#comment-271033 <b>You tend to go overboard to try to prove points. </b> Perhaps. I certainly may choose analogies for their shock value in order to underline my point in bold, 72-pica font. You got my drift, though... <b>It is very possible someone reading that comment on this page is in fact a sexual assault victim or has a loved one that is and you just trivialized it to prove a point about a baseball book? That is in poor taste to say the least.</b> I don't feel like I trivialized anything, personally. My analogy was not about sexual assault, it was about the ignorant way that some neanderthals attempt to justify/mitigate/condone sexual assault. Similarly, simply speaking about the viewpoints of a Nazi does not mean I agree with them or validate them. Furthermore, saying that two abstract concepts are wrong for the same reasons and in the same manner does not necessarily mean the two concepts are equal in all ways and intensities. It merely means they're analogous. I didn't feel the need to attach any disclaimers to anything because we're all adults capable of understanding analogies, no? You tend to go overboard to try to prove points.

Perhaps. I certainly may choose analogies for their shock value in order to underline my point in bold, 72-pica font.

You got my drift, though…

It is very possible someone reading that comment on this page is in fact a sexual assault victim or has a loved one that is and you just trivialized it to prove a point about a baseball book? That is in poor taste to say the least.

I don’t feel like I trivialized anything, personally. My analogy was not about sexual assault, it was about the ignorant way that some neanderthals attempt to justify/mitigate/condone sexual assault. Similarly, simply speaking about the viewpoints of a Nazi does not mean I agree with them or validate them.

Furthermore, saying that two abstract concepts are wrong for the same reasons and in the same manner does not necessarily mean the two concepts are equal in all ways and intensities. It merely means they’re analogous. I didn’t feel the need to attach any disclaimers to anything because we’re all adults capable of understanding analogies, no?

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