Jan
26

Verducci: “Joe Torre does not rip anybody in the book.”

By

In response to yesterday’s hoopla about Joe Torre’s new book, the book’s co-author, SI’s Tom Verducci, answered some questions about the controversy. He claims that it is a third-person account, and that, as the headline says, Torre doesn’t rip anyone, and that “[i]t’s not a tell-all book.” He goes on to say that the book is a third-person narrative. While it’s nice to now know the point of view the authors employed, I don’t think this fact alone gets Torre off the hook.

Meanwhile, Michiko Kakutani of the New York Times offers up a review in Sunday’s paper. Unsurprisingly, it’s a bit more even-handed than the tabloid accounts we saw yesterday. It talks about the actual focus of the book, the post-2001 decline, rather than a few cherry-picked anecdotes. Again, none of this comes as a shocking revelation.

That said, third person point of view or not, it does appear Torre got in his shots:

The book does not hide Torre’s bitterness over his departure in 2007 (he was offered a one-year contract that involved a pay cut in his base salary) and takes a few swipes at the general manager, Brian Cashman, and some players — most notably, Alex Rodriguez.

The quote on A-Rod used in this review: “Rodriguez was like nothing ever seen before on the championship teams of the Torre Era: an ambitious superstar impressed and motivated by stature and status, particularly when those qualities pertained to himself.” There’s also a bit on Jason Giambi, whom Torre says “wasn’t part of what we prided ourselves on: playing well defensively.” So I guess the whole book isn’t third person.

Kakutani notes one of the book’s shortcomings:

This book often fails to detail Torre’s role in the decisions made over these years. His reactions to the signing of Giambi and management’s refusal to grant Williams a guaranteed contract in 2007 are duly noted, but in other instances, it’s unclear to what degree he protested specific choices made by the front office or its lack of a long-term rebuilding strategy.

I’m sure it also doesn’t discuss Torre’s on-field decisions, which had drawn the ire of fans for the last four or five years of his tenure. Despite the point of view, the book is Torre’s take on those years, and in all likelihood he didn’t see much fault in himself. What I also find strange is that he has these unkind words about the way the teams were constructed after 2001, yet he wanted to come back and manage that same team in 2008 and beyond. That, perhaps, is why many will view this as Torre taking swipes on his way out the door.

In the end, this has turned into more a marketing scheme than anything. Now we’re all talking about the book. There have been controversial claims made in the book. The only way to give it all context is to read it.

P.S. Joshua Robinson at the Bats blog has a great line from the Torre: “One thing I’ve learned is that people are going to feel the way they’re going to feel, regardless of what happened.” That means you too, Joe. That means you too.

Categories : Front Office
  • JohnnyC

    As an aside, it should be noted that Kakutani is a long-time Yankees fan. She does have some perspective on this. For those who are book review readers, though, she’s known for her cranky, rather off-center reviews. Her savaging of recent novels by Pynchon and DeLillo were rather notorious.

    • frits

      She also completely misread DFW’s Infinite Jest. That was a rather humorous review.

      • Bo

        In her defense many, many people have misread that.

        Not exactly easy reading

        • pat

          Yes but many people aren’t literature critics for the New York freakin Times.

  • steve (different one)

    ah, the old Darryl Strawberry “i was misquoted in my autobiography” defense.

    Torre’s name is on the cover. he co-authored the book, and he signed off on everything in the book.

    using the third person narrative is just a way for Teflon Joe to take his shots without getting his hands dirty.

    if you are going to take shots at players and GMs, you should wait until you are retired. you put your current employer in an awkward position now, and could jeopardize future dealings with the Yankees. and you did that for money. not very professional.

    • La Costco Nostra

      using the third person narrative is just a way for Teflon Joe to take his shots without getting his hands dirty.

      http://www.nypost.com/seven/01.....ews004.jpg
      http://www.nypost.com/seven/01.....ews005.jpg

      Some direct quotes until the book is on the internet. I ain’t paying for it.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        “La Costco Nostra” = best handle ever.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

          I voted for Kilgore Trout in a previous thread.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Yeah, but dude… La Costco Nostra? That’s GOLD!

  • Chris

    Isn’t the manager’s job to, you know, manage the players? Complaining about A-Rods ego doesn’t seem to make sense to me, because it was Torre’s explicit responsibility to manage those egos. Also, the main defense of Torre was that he was great at managing the personalities (even if he was deficient in the on field aspects). If he couldn’t control the big personalities, and wasn’t any good in the on field decisions, then what possible reason was there to keep him around for 2008?

    • I Remember Celerino Sanchez

      But Chris, what if some personalities are unmanagable? I’m not saying A Rod is as bad as, say, Manny or Milton Bradley, but cuold any manager consistently control those guys? Even though Francona won two titles with Manny, I don’t think he really managed Manny so much as Manny wanting to turn it on at the right times. And there was certainly nothing Francona (or any manager) could do when Manny tanked it last year.

      My point is, when given guys that actually wanted to play the right way, Torre was good at keeping them on track. I’m not sure any manager could handle A Rod’s huge challenges as a me-first personality, so it’s not fair to slam Torre for that. I think he has a right to say, “Look, this guy didn’t get it.”

      To be clear, I think these issues are never black and white. Torre clearly had major deficiencies in his on-field decision making, and Girardi doesn’t seem to have done a good job of hanlding the personalities in the clubhouse last year. A Rod is a pain in the ass to manage, but Torre probably didn’t maximize what a guy with A Rod’s huge talent brings to the table.

      Nobody is perfect. Torre can be right and wrong. It’s not black and white.

  • A.D.

    I hope there is no 2011 decline!!!!!

    But in all seriousness I figured that this would be the immediate words coming out of the Torre/Verducci camp. I still find this an odd time for the book, I get that readers will be more interested now than years from now when there could be another dynasty or other Yankee news/history that fans are more interested in that the Torre years. If he bashes, rips, stabs at, or releases info that really should stay in the clubhouse before he’s retired, and while he’s still very much managing, that just seems odd. How will Martin, Kemp, Loney, Furcal and co feel about trusting Joe with their insecurities & fears, when in the back of their mind it will be going into a book.

    Just seems misplaced, if he wants to rip on the Steinbrenners & Cash, sure…but when you go into player & clubhouse secrets…bad call.

    • steve (different one)

      . If he bashes, rips, stabs at, or releases info that really should stay in the clubhouse before he’s retired, and while he’s still very much managing, that just seems odd.

      considering he did the same thing in 2006 with no consequences, i guess he felt like he could get away with it again.

      he revealed very private clubhouse matters in the 2006 Sports Illustrated piece, and was never questioned.

      why? because in 2006, everyone hated A-Rod and Torre was still the manager. everyone still hates A-Rod, but Torre doesn’t work here anymore, so there is going to be some backlash from Yankee fans. for some, there is NO ONE bigger than the Yankees. not even Torre.

  • frits

    SIDE NOTE: Can we get rid of those f*cking stomach fat ads on this website? Good lord…

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

      1) This is an issue you email us with, not air on the board.

      2) We have little control over which ads are displayed. Unfortunately, these diet ads are everywhere because it’s still January. Fox Sports even has the same damn ads, so it’s not like we’re scraping the bottom of the ad barrel here.

      • UWS

        Maybe this is a subtle hint that people who spend a lot of time perusing sports-related sites/blogs have a problem with stomach fat? Just a thought ;)

        • jsbrendog

          YOU LEAVE MY BEER BELLY OUT OF THIS!

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        BTW, I bought that McCready-Clemens sex-tape… turns out it’s just Wade Boggs sexing up some chicken.

        Worst $19.95 I ever spent.

        • jsbrendog

          at least wade boggs has hair now. him and chavo guerro

          • pat

            VIVA LA RAZA

            • jsbrendog

              that was konnan

        • Jack

          Hey, it could have been worse. Imagine if it actually was a Clemens-McCready sex tape.

    • A.D.

      Those ads are literally everywhere

    • E-ROC

      You don’t think that’s sexy? Lol. Just breathe homie.

  • r.w.g.

    Who cares if Torre says A-Rod only cares about himself and cares more about how many home runs he hits than how many World Series rings he gets. WE ALREADY KNOW THIS. Alex had clauses put in his contract that give him more money for breaking home run records. That’s who he is, it’s what he is.. good, bad, or indifferent.

    • steve (different one)

      Torre didn’t say anything like that.

      what are you talking about?

      • r.w.g.

        ‘motivated by stature and status, particularly concerning himself’

        That’s not a reference to his salary and home runs?

        • steve (different one)

          not necessarily.

          i guess i just don’t see how wanting to hit a lot of HRs is bad for the Yankees.

          it’s not like you are allowed to put incentives into a contract around World Series rings (unless you are Curt Schilling).

          his agent did a good job and got him a lot of money. good for him.

          • r.w.g.

            Not really sure how to have a conversation with you about this.

            I like Alex’s home runs, I’m a big fan on OPS+ and the stats. I just can’t get it out of my head that he has some kind of effect in some way that’s negative.

            It’s sounds totally irrational.. but I mean, if we replaced A-Rod with somebody who was better, or almost as good, but was.. how to say this.. not a complete and utter tool.. I think the team would be much, much better. Like a Pujols, Manny, Magglio, Chipper, Berkman.

            I love Alex’s defense at 3B, but that’s about it. I really could careless if our 3 hitter knocks out 28 homers or 44 if the end result is 100-120 RBIs/Runs and an OBP north of .370

            • steve (different one)

              you’re entitled to your opinion. the guy obviously comes with some baggage, not even disagreeing with that.

              i was just pointing out that you seemed to be projecting the things YOU don’t like about A-Rod into Joe Torre’s mouth.

              not really a big deal.

              • r.w.g.

                But I mean.. Alex’s stature is 100% directly related to his home runs. Nobody gave him an award for “most autographs signed” or “best hamburgers in baseball”.

                I think Joe was trying to get across that Alex just didn’t fit in and instead of saying flat out “I didn’t understand how to relate to this impossibly insecure grown-ass man who just happened to have the ability to hit 800 home runs in a career and utterly disappear in the playoffs”, he said it in a nicer, less detailed way.

            • I Remember Celerino Sanchez

              r.w.g, I agree with you 100 percent. It’s become a major taboo among us Yankee fans to say anything bad about A Rod because of his tremendous numbers. But I’m with you. Of course he’s one of the best ever, but he does have a negative effect on the team. History shows it.

              I hate to say the same thing about A Rod that I wrote above about Torre, but not everything is black and white. You can admire A Rod’s prodigious output and rationally point out the damage he does to a team with his attitude.

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                Wait, wait, wait. That’s a bold ass statement, and you need to back that up.

                How exactly does ARod “damage” or “have a negative effect” on a team with his attitude?

                • I Remember Celerino Sanchez

                  tsjcakakaru (your name is too large to write out … LOL), the guy hasn’t been on a lot of successful teams in his career. There are a lot of factors, so it’s hard to say exactly what A Rod’s role is in the lack of succes, but it starts to have an Occam’s Razor effect, and the simplest explanation is that he plays a role.

                  Watching him in NY, I feel like while he’s a tremendous talent, he has been a negative, too. I’m not in the locker room, but either are you. I’m a long-time fan, and I’ve seen a lot of games, and my impression is that he’s a me-first player that doesn’t, ultimately, help you win big games. His playoff failings are not the only reason, but they are, I think, indicative of the type of player he is.

                  That’s my take on it. You want me to back it up, but that implies that stats can explain everything. I’m a big believer in stats, but stats don’t explain everything. We may not be int eh locker room, but we’ve seen what these Yankee teams have (and haven’t) done when A Rod’s been here, and the way they’ve gone about their business.

                  Let’s just say that A Rod could use some of the attitude displayed by Tim Raines, Paul O’Neill and even Daryl Strawberry in the 90s.

                  (BTW, it’s a crime Raines didn’t get elected to the Hall.)

                • whozat

                  “but it starts to have an Occam’s Razor effect, and the simplest explanation is that he plays a role.”

                  Only if you want it to be.

                  “Bad pitching” is a much, much simpler explanation than “ARod magically makes other players on his team worse in October — and only October”

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  tsjcakakaru (your name is too large to write out … LOL), the guy hasn’t been on a lot of successful teams in his career. There are a lot of factors, so it’s hard to say exactly what A Rod’s role is in the lack of succes, but it starts to have an Occam’s Razor effect, and the simplest explanation is that he plays a role.

                  So, David Eckstein and Luis Sojo are the greatest players in history, then?

                  Ted Williams and Ernie Banks sucked?

                  Tell me how ARod caused Chan Ho Park to be a horrible pitcher. Tell me how ARod made Jeff Weaver suck. Tell me how ARod caused the Mariners to not be able to afford Ken Griffey and Randy Johnson.

                  It’s a team game. One individual can’t win or lose it by himself. Barry Bonds in 2002 ate the league whole and pooped it out on the other end, but he still couldn’t get the other 24 guys on his team to beat a hot Angels squad.

              • r.w.g.

                The thing is.. I was one of Alex’s biggest supporters in 2004, especially after what happened in the ALCS. He didn’t blow game 5, he didn’t groove one to Damon, he wasn’t the only guy that went stone cold.

                But after that series, even if he did take an inordinate amount of blame, he absolutely let it effect him going forward. Every single playoff series since, this cat has been swinging out of his damn shoes. He looks ridiculous at the plate, like he suddenly doesn’t know what he’s doing.

                When a guy is running into bad luck, he has some competitive at-bats. He grounds a few hard, he gets some liners. When the post-season rolls around, Alex just starts looking exactly like the guy we traded to get him. I want to just sit him down and tell him to relax, but everybody and their brother has already tried that.

                I’m not even convinced it’s all his fault. A lot of it might be other players just having immature reactions to him and letting the media-created controversy around Alex affect them.. but just like sometimes it’s easier to fire the coach than the players… you know what I mean?

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  If you want to say that ARod’s personality causes him to perform poorly in big spots, that’s a conversation I think that has merit.

                  When you start to say that ARod’s personality or personal struggles are the reason that OTHER PLAYERS struggle, that’s when you’re straining credulity.

                • pete

                  I agree completely. I think he’s incredibly insecure for someone of his immense talent and feels too much pressure to perform well in big spots to actually do it with consistency, although I think 2007 showed significant improvement depsite the numbers; game one he was a little off after 3 games off and was facing a hard throwing lefty, a-rod’s achilles, who happened to win the cy young that year, and the next game he 0-fered against fausto carmona’s absolute brilliance. He hit well the next two games. However, I think A-Rod will never be a great big-spot producer not because of his insecurities but simply because those spots tend to occasion the best pitchers who are usually at a max concentration, and throughout his career, great pitching has always been able to shut him down. What makes him such a great hitter is his ability to mash bad/mediocre pitching with such reliability and consistency. I think its an awfully tough argument, however, to imply that he genuinely makes a team worse, cuz it just plain isn’t true.

                • r.w.g.

                  No I didn’t mean to say that A-Rod is actually causing it through any kind of fault of his own.

                  Personally, I mean.. I’m not totally against the guy. I just don’t know wtf to make of him. I don’t know if he’s affecting other players.. and if he is, I would say that’s way more on the other players than it is Alex.

                  I’m just trying to figure out how the hell this team can add the second-best player in the game and slowly get worse? The pitching hasn’t been great.. but it was good enough to get us to the post-season and in a lot of those games and years (CWM in 2007 notwithstanding) the pitching was good enough to win those games if our $28 million a year man (and, admittedly, his $19 million ex-butt buddy) would have just done SOMETHING — ANYTHING.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  I’m just trying to figure out how the hell this team can add the second-best player in the game and slowly get worse?

                  Maybe the league is just slowly getting better.

                • r.w.g.

                  That’s definitely part of it. But tommiesmith, I know you at least sometimes think along these lines regarding Alex.

                  You’re the guy that posted that whole spiel, complete with the numbers to back it up, about how Alex’s K rates go up in high pressure situations, his average dips.

  • MattG

    I see the 12 years from 96-07 as two different managers. There was the 96-01 Torre, who cared about the managers job, and did it well (not perfectly, but well). I was a fan of that Torre.

    Then there was the 02-07 Torre, who cared too much about Brian Cashman’s job, and his own “stature and status.”

    As I see it, the manager is meant to manage the players he is given, in the mold defined by the organization. In some organizations, the manager is the most important person of them all–but perhaps predictably, these organizations are erratic. Those organizations that are stable and perennially relevant feature strong GMs and managers that do their job, and not each other’s. Boston, Minnesota, Atlanta, LAA, and more recently, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay and Milwaukee. Seattle and Baltimore may be joining ranks soon.

    The Yankees had that in the first iteration of Joe Torre, but it has been lacking since.

  • steve (different one)

    The quote on A-Rod used in this review: “Rodriguez was like nothing ever seen before on the championship teams of the Torre Era: an ambitious superstar impressed and motivated by stature and status, particularly when those qualities pertained to himself.” There’s also a bit on Jason Giambi, whom Torre says “wasn’t part of what we prided ourselves on: playing well defensively.” So I guess the whole book isn’t third person.

    no one else remembers Torre playing golf with Albert Belle and giving the front office his “seal of approval” to sign Belle instead of Bernie?

    i guess i imagined that.

  • jsbrendog

    conclusion:

    Toree and cash nol onger bffs because cash made torre cry when he traded proctor for betemit.

    • UWS

      Winner.

  • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

    Heh, I love this bit:

    “I said to him, ‘Alex, do me a favor, at least go get a cup of coffee by yourself instead of sending someone to get you a cup of coffee.’ A little while later, he goes out of his way to find me. He’s carrying a cup of coffee. ‘Look, Skip,’ he said. ‘I got my own cup of coffee!’ That wasn’t even the point. It was just an example. The point was just be one of the guys. He didn’t get it.”

    Really, Joe? “He didn’t get it”? Hmm, maybe, just maybe, Alex reacted like that because he was basically telling you to mind your fucking business and stop worrying about such trivial garbage like how Alex Rodriguez obtains a cup of coffee. Oh, and kudos to Subway Squawkers for pointing out Torre’s hypocritical stance in this bit:

    * Torre himself had a clubhouse attendant make up his green tea every day, so it’s more than a little hypocritical to criticize Alex for having a clubhouse attendant bring him a cup of coffee

    • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      Jamal slowly rises from the couch and, with lipstick, crosses the name “Lisa Swan” off his “People to Kill” list.

      • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

        “Billy Madison”, right?

        • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          Yup

          • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

            Steve Buschemi is easily in my top-ten list of favorite actors.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              You’re acting like a first year thief. I’m acting like a professional.

              • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside a/k/a Mr. Pink.

                Love it.

                (That movie was f*cking amazing, btw.)

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  I got Madonna’s big dick coming out of my left ear, and Toby the Jap – I don’t know what – comin’ out of my right…

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

      I guess Joe didn’t understand that some people are just more solitary than others. You don’t have to be “one of the guys” so long as you’re not disrupting everyone else’s business.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Or, to sum up:

      I’m Joe Torre. It doesn’t matter that I’m a pretty crappy in-game manager, because I’m awesome with people and great at getting a collection of egotistic superstars to “blend in” and “play as a team” (in the one major sport where “blending in” and “playing as a team” doesn’t matter nearly as much as the quality of the collection of egotistic superstars you have) and that’s the main reason we won all those World Series games.

      However, every time I failed to get a certain few egotistic superstars to blend into my collection, it’s not because I’m not awesome with people or not great at getting a collection of egotistic superstars to “blend in”, or any other personal shortcoming on my part, it’s because those particular egotistic superstars are incapable of “blending in” due to personal shortcomings on their parts.

      And, that fact, plus the fact that idiot Brian Cashman kept making my super-important job impossible to do by constantly acquiring these egotistic superstars who are incapable of “blending in” due to personal shortcomings on their parts is the sole reason we stopped winning World Series games.

      Q.E.D.

      • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

        Am I the only one shocked to see the old scribes of NYC rip Joe Torre to shreds today? I thought it was a foregone conclusion that these guys would’ve had Saint Joe’s back.

      • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

        Oh, and I agree wholeheartedly with the notion of your post, that’s exactly how he comes off in relation to the ARod-centric anecdotes.

      • Count Zero

        Perfect summary.

    • Rich M

      Don’t most guys have a specific clubhouse guy that they use? I recall an article last year about “clubbies” and how much money they make under the table running errands for these guys. These players tend to gravitate to certain guys they feel they can trust and they are well taken care of. I read that one guy got the players car at the end of one season.
      Maybe Torre is upset because A-Rod was using his guy and he wasn’t getting his tea on time.

    • pete

      torre, and just about every other busy person who can afford such an employee, provided they are not a coffee-shop enthusiast.

  • Evan

    Off topic but anyone else see the Gammons list of majors players added per division (Mark Teixeira (Yankees), CC Sabathia (Yankees), A.J. Burnett (Yankees), John Smoltz (Red Sox), Ramon Ramirez (Red Sox), Brad Penny (Red Sox), Rocco Baldelli (Red Sox), Takashi Saito (Red Sox), Junichi Tazawa (Red Sox)) How is Nick Swisher not a major addition but AA relief pitcher Junichi Tazawa is? At least try include all the facts come on.

    • Bo

      Talk about nitpicking. Relax there.

    • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

      Heh, that’s not even the most egregious one: Cesar Izturis (BAL)? Really?

    • christopher

      how can you put ramon ramirez, smoltz, penny, baldelli, saito and junichi as comporable additions to the ones the yankees made.

      i used to love gammons but ever since the sox won a ws he has become such a homer

  • Bo

    Well, this book has done the impossible. Made every Yankee fan defend A-Rod.

    • jsbrendog

      nope. still won’t do it.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        You WILL EAT THAT CAT POOP!

        • I Remember Celerino Sanchez

          Wait, A Rod is Ron Burgundy?!?!?!?! Okay, now it all makes so much more sense, especially him telling Cano and Melky to stay classy.

        • jsbrendog

          I WILL NOT EAT THE CAT POOP!

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            You make a fool of me and everyone here. YOU PUT THAT CAT POOP IN YOUR MOUTH!!!

            • jsbrendog

              if i take one bite of this, you’ll give me a steak?

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                I’ll think about it. Start with the end.

                • jsbrendog

                  forget it! I’lljust eat the shit. but i still won’t defend arod.

  • Jay CT… Ben Sheets biggest fan

    According to MLBTR, Yanks in serious talks with Pettitte for less then 10 million

    • Bo

      I’m guessing by your handle here you aren’t too happy bout that.

      • Jay CT… Ben Sheets biggest fan

        I am ok with the Andy signing. He will take care of 200 innings, giving us 3 guys who hopefully will go 200, then AJ who could go 200, but more likely will go 160-175.

  • Sean

    http://www.fannation.com/si_bl.....h-pettitte

    from Heyman: Yanks and Pettitte in “serious” discussion right now with high optimism for a deal.

    • http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=43434432275 Ace

      :-(

      No Sheets.

      • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

        You know, as much as I want Phil Hughes as the Opening Day fifth starter, having a durable, above-average arm like Andy Pettitte is really awesome when you factor in the durability question marks of both A.J. Burnett and Joba Chamberlain. We now might have three starters – Sabathia, Wang and Pettitte – that can provide two-hundred innings of above-average quality – that’s all sorts of awesome.

        • Greg G.

          I’m with you on this one. Besides, with Joba’s potential innings limit, the nontrivial risk of downtime for any of those starting 5, etc. etc., I still think we’ll be seeing plenty of Phil Hughes this season.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Yeah. Probably:

            150 innings for Joba / 6 IP per start = 25 starts max

            Average starts per year, last 4 years:
            CC: 32.0
            Wang: 31.5 (only counts full years of ’06, ’07)
            Burnett: 28.0
            Pettitte: 33.7
            Joba: 25.0

            = 150.2 starts

            That leaves about 12 starts for Hughes or IPK (and, to a lesser extent, Coke and Aceves, who I’ve got a feeling will both soon be in the bullpen…)

    • christopher

      pettite or sheets + hughes?

      who would you prefer

      • christopher

        its a matter of potential. sheets has number 1 or numbber2 potential where as petettie is a 4-5 pitcher. granted there is the injury factor which we dont know, but i would rather gamble on sheets especially since there is a real possibility that smalll market teams will most likely be shopping decent (pettite type pitcher)

  • BillyBall

    Wow, enough already!

    stop defending this jerk A-Rod while attacking the man who coached the Yankee dynasty to 4 World Championships. And you call yourself Yankee fans. Maybe your too young to remember the dreaded 80′s and the early 90′s. I’m not crediting Torre with building the Dynasty, I’m giving him his respect for leading the team with all the pressures that is NY to 4 World Series Championships. Whatever was written in the book is probably truth. If the man wants to write a book so be it. You all have no problem with A-Rod’s exploits, but you find it acceptable to rip apart Torre. I’m not condoning anyone writing a book bashing anyone. But who did Torre even attack. He attacked Kevin Brown, he attacked A-Fraud, he attacked Cash, which he called and apologized. Did he attack one Yankee from that dynasty? One real Yankee? Nope! When all said in done and we are too old to be blogging and the next generation of RAB bloggers are dictating away in there blue tooth and they put up a monument for Torre with his retired number 6 who is gonna get the biggest ovation, Torre or A-Rod? Baseball fans will always remember all of the A-Rod records broken (especially if he was never found to be using steroids). Yankee fans which are the most important will always remember the Titles and that means more to us. When are you going to see this point. Read the excerpts, if there isn’t a blanket of truth in what Torre is stating than your just anti Torre and A-Rod bias which is obvious on this website. Learn to be more bias and fair and understand that this guy is not liked by the players and even the coaches aren’t fond of him. He’s not in the mold of Tino, Paulie, Bernie, Jorge, and Derek. He is a different type of player, one that is self absorbed. As a Yankee fan I root for him because he is wearing my Jersey, as a baseball fan, I wish he was on a different team!

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Using the term “real Yankee” is a surefire sign of an uncritical mind.

      Also, you lambast us for having anti-Torre and pro-ARod bias (which I don’t believe I have; I feel both men have both serious pluses and serious minuses), but your rant is utterly dripping of pro-Torre and anti-ARod bias… which is a clear cut case of the ol’ pot and kettle.

    • jsbrendog

      “And you call yourself Yankee fans. Maybe your too young to remember the dreaded 80’s and the early 90’s. ”

      this is where i stopped reading. so sikc and tired of people going YOURE TOO YOUNG TO REMEMBER WHEN WE TOTALLY SUCKED!!!

      ::puts on pascual perez jersey tshirt and covets steve farr baseball glove with hensley muelens autographed ball::

      • pete

        i know its like when teachers/professors imply that we are somehow a lesser generation because we prefer the effeciency of internet research to the rich smell of letherbound books.

  • BillyBall

    And Torre clearly had concerns about Rodriguez’s well-chronicled failures in key moments, particularly in recent postseasons. Torre said that when everything was on the line, and when Rodriguez was at the plate, Rodriguez was too often unable to “concern himself with getting the job done” and instead became distracted with “how it looks.”

    And it is not just Torre who makes critical assessments of Rodriguez in the book. The book quotes Mike Borzello, a former Yankees bullpen catcher who is described as a “close friend” of Rodriguez’s, and says that Borzello continuously had to boost Rodriguez’s ego because he felt that he was competing with Derek Jeter for attention.

    “It doesn’t help,” Borzello said, referring to Rodriguez’s relationship with Jeter. “You would rather that the stars are in the same place, pulling together, but I don’t think it affected the other players. It just affected the feel in the clubhouse.”

    Without directly attributing the information to Torre, the book states that teammates and clubhouse attendants referred to Rodriguez as A-Fraud and seemed particularly put off by the fact that Rodriguez seemed to demand so much attention from the attendants.

    “One time, in Detroit, where his personal attendant was not available, Rodriguez was jogging off the field after batting practice, saw a Comerica Park visiting clubhouse attendant, a young kid in his first months on the job, and simply barked, ‘Peanut butter and jelly,’ ”

    • jsbrendog

      i think you hit the nail on the head there. baseball isnt about how it looks it is about getting the job done. and no matter how great a superstar is a team will do better with someone who gets the job done just as often or close to as often and looks stupid doing it then someone who only looks goood doing it.

      hey arod, how do all those strikeouts in key situations look? a lot worse than a bloop single or a tapper you beat out cause you ran as hard as humanly possible or a check swing accidental double down the line over the 3b/1b head…

      • pete

        when has a-rod ever dogged it? i get the sense that he’s insecure and kindof a metro bitch, but baseball-wise he’s totally fine by me. I’ll take his 11 9th inning hrs in 2007 over 3 bloopers from eckstein any day of the week.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      The issue here is not anybody hates Joe or loves ARod. It’s that Torre’s writing an utterly self-serving book that likely skews the truth in his favor. There’s several statements already leaked to the press that seem to pin blame on the lack of Yankee success everywhere but with Joe Torre himself, as if Joe did everything right and everybody else was a horrid screwup, and that’s just not historically accurate.

      So yeah, Joe wrote that ARod kept to himself and was envious of Jeter. Interesting. It would have also been interesting to hear Joe talk about his regrets for destroying the careers of Scott Proctor, Paul Quantrill, and Tanyon Sturtze and his general ineptness with the bullpen, but I guess that doesn’t fit the narrative he’s interested in spinning about the evil Yankees front office preventing him from being the most awesomest manager ever.

      We’re not picking sides, we’re calling bullshit on obvious bullshit. I’m sure that 10 years from now, when ARod has someone co-author a book with him, we’ll object to a lot of that self-serving fluff as well.

      • Rob in CT

        Exactly. Well, close. Tanyon Sturtze didn’t really have a career to ruin. He had a flukey month or two in pinstripes and went back to being Tanyon Sturtze, bad pitcher. That Torre failed to recognize this hurt the team.

        Protor and Quantrill had some actual ability.

        Other than that, I agree. And anyway, why couldn’t Mr. I’m so great at managing personalities and egos have sat Jeter and/or ARod down and sorted out whatever issuee(s) were supposedly so detrimental.

        • pete

          probably because it wasn’t a legitimite issue and had nothing to do with baseball, and acknowledging it would have made it more real. I mean come on it’s not like either of them was ever dazing off thinking about the glory days of their friendship during games. Newsflash people: baseball games are won by hits, walks, hrs, pitching, and defense, NOT team spirit.

      • r.w.g.

        Wasn’t Paul Quantrill already like 37 when the Yankees signed him?

        As far as Tanyon Sturtze goes, in both of his full seasons with the Yankees, Torre used him for fewer innings than Toronto did in 2003. Joe Torre did that scrub a favor. Without Joe running that below-average chucker out there so much, he’d never have gotten that million bucks from the FO.

        As for Proctor, yeah.. Torre used him like crazy in 2006. 102 innings. Maybe ownership and the front office shouldn’t have filled the rotation with broken down asshats like RJ (thanks, George) or Jaret Wright (thanks Cash). I can’t believe Shawn Chacon and Aaron Small didn’t get it done for us that year. Or Corey Lidle. We had two good SP that year, and 3 good RP. Proctor was one of them. The other was Mike Myers (a specialist) and the other was Mo. WTF was Joe supposed to do?

  • Frank

    It is aboslutely disgusting that Joe Torre forgets that on his watch the Yankees lost the ALCS to the Boston Red Sox after being up 3-0…making history as the first team to ever do so.

    Any other manager in any other sport would have been fired. Joe was on 3 years borrowed time in my book and should be happy he made it that long. No one should should “deserve” to open the new stadium besides George. Joe can buy a ticket like everyone else.

  • BillyBall

    Hey Frank,
    It’s absolutely disgusting that after winning 4 world championships and going up 3 games to none against the sawx, A-rod who was having his best post season career to date went belly up and put up an 0-14 thus helping the cause of the greatest Yankee collapse. Torre wasn’t holding a bat at the plate pal.
    Back to the book. This book was not written by torre. It was written by Tom Verducci with excerpts from Torre. The quotes in the book about A-Rod was widely known already. In fact Mike Francessa (the blowhard) stated he heard about the use of A-Fraud years ago. It’s widely known that A-Rod is not liked and he is self absorbed with his perception being number one priority. Now if you were coaching a team, what would you do with a personality that you consistently had to have talks with because his sensitive ego, you had to be tough with at times as well but whatever you did it didn’t change the perception of your other players on the team about A-Rod. Torre did what he could to push this guy through these slumps. He even used tough love on him showing him your not the team and moving him down in the lineup to spark him. This guy was a rally killer year in and year out in the playoffs. No more defending him. Trade his ass to the Mets for David Wright. Bring back the ole Yankees!

    • SG

      Derek “True Yankee” Jeter in the 2004 ALCS

      .200 BA
      .333 OBP
      .233 SLG

      I like Jeter as much as the next guy, but if you’re going to blast A-Rod for that series loss…

    • usty

      Yeah, I really hate having one of the Top 5 players of ALL TIME on my team. Just sucks.

  • Count Zero

    I thought Verducci’s attempt to spin yesterday was pretty funny.

    But you know what I found even funnier? The fact that he specifically mentioned the fact that Joe had repeatedly seen everything prior to any release and had signed off on all of it.

    No, Joe Torre is not surprised by anything that’s in this book. He has read and re-read and re-read the book. We’ve been working on it since last November.

    Sounds like Joe is already telling everyone in earshot that he was misquoted, taken out of context, etc.

    You betcha that the LA clubhouse will be a different place when this season starts…