Open Thread: All A-Rod, all the time



The circus has officially come to town, and it won’t be leaving any time soon. Hot on the heels of the news that A-Rod failed a 2003 drug test, baseball and its supposed drug problem has once again grabbed center stage in New York City. For the 2009 season, A-Rod and, by extension, the Yanks will be under the microscope.

Anyway, as the story developed during the course of the day, numerous threads developed. The Players Union and Alex Rodriguez will take spotlight, and this could get messier before it gets better. I’ll wrap them up for the open thread.

The A-Rod Angle

  • MLB Network was all over this story today, and with Tom Verducci, Harold Reynolds and Bob Costas providing the commentary, the fledgling TV station did a great job. Obviously, they pointed to A-Rod’s 60 Minutes interview with Katie Couric from 2007. In the clip linked there, A-Rod categorically denies taking steroids. In another clip shown on TV today, A-Rod says he’s been tested “eight or nine times.”

    At some point, one of these statements will be revealed as a lie, and my guess is that it’s the first one. I’d have to believe that A-Rod has been tested since the suspension program has been put into place. If he hasn’t failed those tests, would anyone care — or notice?

  • How long did A-Rod know about this story? Why didn’t he tell anyone? Costas this afternoon talked with Sports Illustrated reporter Selena Roberts. She says she approached A-Rod in Miami on Thursday and received a “no comment” from the All Star. Sam Border wonders if A-Rod kept this from the Yanks and if so, why. A-Rod will have to comment on this report soon. Roberts certainly gave A-Rod more than enough opportunity to refute the story, and he declined to do so. That does not look good.
  • NJ.com examines Primobolan, a designer drug designed to retain strength but minimize bulk. Selena Roberts said that this drug is quick to cycle out of a user’s system as well.
  • MLB Trade Rumors notes that A-Rod’s contract is steroid-proof. Joel Sherman wonders if the Yanks regret re-signing A-Rod in 2007. There are nine years left in this marriage, and it seems like an eternity.
  • It’s also worth noting that the portion of Roberts’ story that broke today is just a part of the story. From her interview, it sounds as though her larger piece will again blame the usual suspects of steroid users with Rafael Palmeiro, Juan Gonzalez and Ivan Rodriguez due for another hit. On TV, she guessed that Scott Boras probably had an idea of what was going on with A-Rod in 2003 as well. Related: Does today’s revelation vindicate Jose Canseco? That’s debatable.

The Union Response

  • Harold Reynolds and Bob Costas were both appalled at Roberts’ report that Gene Orza may have tipped off A-Rod to an impending drug test. Costas felt that this could be a blanket breach of the Collective Bargaining Agreement and that the owners could use this as leverage in their efforts to weaken the union when the CBA expires after 2011. It’s very possible that Orza’s job and the reputation of the Players Union are both on the line right now and how he handles the blowback will determine the future of the union.
  • Why was the list from 2003 of the players who failed the screening drug test destroyed? The Union officials were supposed to destroy, and Ken Davidoff notes that the union leaders, who had the legal right to do so, completely dropped the ball. A lot of union members must be questioning their leadership right now.

    The existence of this list may also, as Costas noted this afternoon, raise some Fourth Amendment issues.

  • The Players Association and MLB both related statements focusing on the privacy angle. Neither organization refuted this report, and both noted that the samples should have been anonymous. What a disaster.

Keeping it all in perspective

  • At one point this afternoon, Bob Costas compared the failure to handle the samples with the required care and anonymity to one of this country’s greatest and most shocking political scandals. “This is in the category of Nixon burning the tapes,” he said. Ross at New Stadium Insider wonders if the nation is ignoring larger problems for the spectacle of A-Rod. This is, after all, just a baseball story. Chew on that one for a bit. I think Ross has a valid point, but baseball has long been tied into American culture and identity. This is a fairly significant American scandal.

The Fine Print: Use this as your open thread tonight. Let’s not have any A-Rod or steroid flame wars. Play nice.

Categories : Open Thread


  1. Matt says:

    If UConn loses tonight in addition to the A-Rod thing, I may just lose it.

  2. Joey H says:

    He’s got to be smart and APOLOGIZE! Just do it A-rod. You weren’t going to be truly accepted in Ny anyway so just do it for the sake of your legacy. He is going to get bashed at 8 by me on my show.

    • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

      He has no legacy, and that has always been the most important motivator for him. His life’s goal was to set every record in Baseball, and now that achievement has been rendered meaningless, as it was with Bonds.

      He’s too big a star to expect this to go away, with a tacit admission and saying he won’t answer any further questions ala Giambi/Pettitte. They weren’t chasing any records, he is. He’s a bigger star than either of them. His case is simply not comparable.

      Also, his reputation for being phony and his previous denials will result in this happening:

      Reporter-”Alex, is this report true?”
      A-Rod-”Yes, but I just did it that one time, and I feel horrible about it”
      Reporter-”But you were quoted numerous times previously saying you never did steroids, why should we believe you now?”
      A-Rod-”. . . . . . “

  3. Dave says:

    Boy, I sure hope Teix wasn’t one of those on that Ranger’s team in ’03!!!!!!

  4. pat says:

    Since I’m ever the optimist about all things yankee related (Fryer = future mvp) =’m gonna go ahead and hold on to the slim chance this actually has a good effect on arod. Maybe he has been so sensitive and aloof because he has been playing under the burden of the knowledge that he failed that test in 03 and it has been eating at his psyche since then. Hopefully he comes out fesses up looks america straight in the eye and said yes I did that ish once in 03 it was a horrible terrible thing and not a day goes by when I dont regret it. He would catch some shit for a few months, but at least it would put an end to the speculation and debate. He then plays 09 unhinged and unburdened and he and tex go for 100 HR and 300 RBI leading us to the first of three consecutive world series titles. Of course all those things have about as good a chance of happening as me not blacking out tonight, but hey, we can hope.

    • Lasoo says:

      I was thinking about it that way too. The comparison I drew was to Kobe Bryant. After his scandal in Colorado, Kobe kind of stopped giving a shit about what everyone else thought about him and has played with a chip on his shoulder since then. Maybe (hopefully), this can have the same effect on A-Rod.

    • RichYF says:

      I was talking to my buddy earlier today and I was basically telling him that I hope A-Rod gives a big “fuck you” to the media and just starts mashing. Instead of talking to the media after games, he holds up a cup of urine. I had a few other choice lines, most of which involving A-Rod mocking the media, but I think the best thing he can do is just mash. Best thing for me, anyway.

      • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

        The Barry Bonds approach? Yeah, that worked well for him.

        • Celerino says:

          Is this guy the “Albatross about my neck” or what. The whole Rime of the Ancient Mariner thing is becoming spooky. Hey let’s look on the bright side, if he got popped in 03 he has had some monster years after that. He either 1) found some other supplement or 2) is really the freakish hitter that his stats say he his. Either way, he’s ours, bought and paid for so we have to live with it.

          One positive going into 09? He’s banging Kate Hudson instead of that ball crunching witch Madonna. He should be screwing young starlets, not some Bette Davis “Baby Jane” type hag. He needs to loosen up, hang with Kate, and not practice Kabbalah.

  5. Elmgrovegnome says:

    This is the last thing A-Rod needed. Ditto for the Yankees.

    If he hadn’t been in line to break some records I would say who cares at this point. Apparently there were a ton of players doing it and the regulations, or enforcement of them was flimsy at best.

    But since he could hold some substantial records down the road, it is very disappointing newsbreak. I would rather not have known about it. I wanted a scandal free season for a change.

  6. Thomas says:

    What the heck is UConn doing? Stop sucking!

    • Matt says:

      Too many stupid threes, too few rebounds, too shitty inside shooting, too many turnovers.

      • Matt says:

        Also, UConn is terrible against a zone defense. They should honestly consider playing zone more often, especially against good shooting teams like this. When an opponent is able to extend Thabeet to the outside, it’s pretty easy to beat UConn.

        • Thomas says:

          UConn really need a top notch shooter to help them against zones. I hoping Harrelson can be that player next year.

          The problem with a zone against good shooting teams is that it is a lot of area to cover. I think they should try Robinson against any good shooting big men and maybe sit Thabeet or Adrian a little more in those games.

          • Matt says:

            I think Walker will develop into a nice shooter.

            I know it is but with our guard play, we should be able to cover that ground. Dyson and Walker are both very fast and athletic and Price is no slouch, either. The only problem I see is the deep corners. But, a 2-3 zone with Adrien and Robinson on the sides with Thabeet in the middle could work well.

      • Thomas says:

        Price is really killing them today, 2-8 and 1-5 for 3 to go with 1rebounds and no assists and a shitload of turnovers. But they’re coming back and will still win.

  7. Ryan S. says:

    Yeah, I totally called that A-Roid headline earlier today.

  8. Zack says:

    Actually, Roberts isn’t really right in talking about Primo. yes, it cycles out earlier than some of the long term roids, but we are still talking about a MINIMUM of 3 weeks, and more likely at least a month. Which of course makes the claim, denied of course by the MPBPA, that Arod was tipped to a test that same month, seem questionable.

    But Roberts has never let details get in the way of her finger pointing in the past.

    • Chris says:

      Whether it’s beneficial or not is only part of the story. The bigger issue is that a union leader tipped off a member that a test was coming. This shouldn’t be an issue for A-Rod, but it should be a huge issue for Orza.

      Also, in theory, there are ways to pass a test if you know when it’s coming, even if there’s not enough warning to let the steroids cycle out of your system – remember the Whizzinator?

      • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

        If Orza’s a lawyer (and I believe he is) that should get him disbarred.

        • NY Yankee Fan says:

          And what rule of professional responsibility did he violate? I love these shoot from the hip comments, particular when he was not acting in the capacity as an attorney. Moreover, why would someone be disbarred for when all he would have engaged in (assuming truth behind statements from no-name press sources) is protected speech.

          • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

            As a labor lawyer employed by the MLBPA, his job is to represent and defend the player’s legal rights. What he did was at best unethical, and possibly illegal. Steroids are an illegal, banned substance and a lawyer’s job is not to help his client break the law. If he does, he can get either reprimanded or disbarred.

            • NY Yankee Fan says:

              If he was acting as an attorney for the players (as opposed to MLBPA’s Chief Operating Officer), then he was free to tell the players that a drug test was on the way. He did not buy steroids for players, so he is not helping a client break the law. These were privately performed drug tests, not tests for criminals on probation. If, as your post is factually based, he was acting as the players lawyers then he may have been obligated to tell the players. If he was actually, which is more likely, a lawyer for the MLBPA then he was free to say what he wanted.

              If Orza broke the law as you continue to suggest, why don’t you direct us to information supporting this conclusion so we can look at it ourselves. Otherwise, move along.

      • Zack says:

        But that is actually old news. And disputed news at that. What is new is that the player was A-Rod.

        I was merely calling out Roberts on not really knowign what she is talking about. Again.

  9. So Syracuse sucks, apparently, A-Rod is A-Roid…

    I hope the Devils have something better to offer.

  10. LB says:

    What a friggin nightmare

  11. raysam says:

    I will always love the yankees no matter what

  12. Bryan says:

    actually the tip off was the next season, September 2004.

  13. raysam says:

    I still do not know why we signed arod after he opted out he has always been a loser is there any way to get rid of this joker.

    • Matt says:

      Not another one of you….

      • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

        Matt, we all know half of Yankee fans never warmed up to Alex. For those that did like him, today’s a day where you just have to accept the fact that he’s going to get destroyed. And worse yet, it’s his own doing.

        There are days you just have to take your lumps, this is one of them.

  14. raysam says:

    why did we sign this guy for ten years also why are the names of the mlb players not released there is definitely some red sox players on the list of 104

    • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

      LoHud had a report saying that the author of the SI article said the rest of the names may very well come out as a result of the Federal case vs Bonds. But she also added that she didn’t have any names other than Alex, who she was doing a story on at the time.

  15. raysam says:

    I am a yankee for life

    • Zack says:

      No, you are a Yankee fan for life. Not a Yankee. Unless you mean that you come from the North East, as in “A Connecticut Yankee.”

      • Funny story

        Yesterday someone mentioned that he, coming from Texas, hadnt been prepared for Yankeeland. I started in on a discussion about CM Wang’s injury, and then he tells me he hadn’t been referring to baseball in the first place.

    • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

      I would hope so. Players and managers come and go, the franchise is what you should be loyal to.

      I’ve been trying to explain this to the Torre supporters for years.

  16. Jeremy says:

    This whole mess makes rooting for this team less fun. What a bummer.

    • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

      Yep. I’ve never booed Alex, despite an enormous desire to do so some years. Now, I will just sit on my hands whenever he does something special. And start counting the days until he is no longer a Yankee. Unfortunately for me, that’s 9 years away. But if this spirals out of control as I suspect it will, it will come sooner.

      Alex hasn’t shown the ability to handle playoff pressure. Having the numbers he has built his identity around being rendered meaningless must be devastating for him. I could see him having a terrible season, and the Yanks pulling a Tom Hicks and dealing him somewhere to get a fresh start.

  17. donttradecano says:

    the nj.com article quotes the SI article as saying primobolan increases strength but in order for that to happen to arod he would have needed to be taking something else, like winstrol

    “Even competing athletes report good quality gains with continu-ously “harder” muscles when taking 150 mg Primobolan S/day and 50 mg Winstrol Depot every two days, as well as 76 mg of Parabolan every two days.”

    so unless that high level of testosterone was another steroid, i dont see how arod benefited from taking this, other than by getting cut.

  18. Matt says:

    Okay, does ANYONE know ANYONE who actually uses Alltel?

  19. dkidd says:

    one thing is 100% certain: commissioner-for-life bud selig will accept no responsibility whatsoever

  20. Donald Duck says:

    This guy is a fraud. That name works for him. It really does fit the man.

    Next time people want to jump all over Jeter for not always coming to his defense, should note that this guy brings all of his problems on himself. It is not just a roid issue, or a relationship issue, or an image issue, or a truthfulness issue, it is everything with this guy.

    Never liked this dude Alex the Purple Lipped Princess, and I never will. Today was just another reason to tack on.

    • Matt says:

      “…how the season starts”

      I agree he’s got personal issues but it’s not his choice to have the media delve into his personal life and marital situation as much as it does. Jeter’s had many more women but doesn’t get half the scrutiny for it.

      • Matt says:

        Hmm, wrong copy/paste. that “how the season starts” should be the “all the problems on himself” section. My bad.

      • Donald Duck says:

        There is a difference. Alex was a married man running around on his wife, Jeter last time I checked was a single guy.

        Also Alex does and did all he could to parade his wife and kid around, and talk about how he was Mr Family Man. So when you do that then run around on your wife you deserve all you get and more.

  21. Elston32 says:

    This throws a figurative syringe into the Yanks’ plans for a peaceful spring training.

    Call me biased for promoting Alfonso Soriano to my dad as the next great Yankee (since seeing Soriano in the 1998 Arizona Fall League and numerous times at the old Stadium). I despised the trade but never anticipated the Yanks would encounter so much bad publicity from the human train wreck that is A-Roid.

    • B.George says:

      Come on now….easy to say now that you despised the trade…..you have to be an idiot to think that. We got the best player in baseball to come to New York. Dont get me wrong I too loved Soriano but that trade had to be done. Noone could have ever anticipated A Rod turning into a spectacle like this.

      • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

        Yeah, the trade was a no brainer.

        But no doubt about it, the A-Rod/Yankee relationship has been a failed marriage. Like any bad relationship it has its moments, but you keep coming back to the fact that the two of you are headed in different directions.

        • Ben K. says:

          Two points, and keep in mind that I don’t necessarily disagree with your failed marriage sentiments:

          I’m not saying it’s been a perfect, peaceful marriage, but you have to be able to say how you would have replaced A-Rod because with A-Rod all of those years, the Yankees would have sucked. Aaron Boone definitely wouldn’t have done it, and Soriano wouldn’t have done it either.

          I know it’s popular to hate A-Rod, and I have no problem with people disliking him for reasons that extend beyond the field. But the two are only heading in different directions because from day one, the vast majority of the fan base and New York media have been rooting for A-Rod to fail.

          • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

            Let me be clear, I’ve never hated A-Rod and I’ve never loved him. I just think its been obvious for a long time that this marriage was at best an uneasy one for both sides. Alex has felt the need to impersonate Derek to get by here and he’s struggled mightily to fit in on the field, in the clubhouse and with roughly half of the fan base.

            All of that being said, you’re right. Replace Alex with a league average player and the Yanks certainly would have missed the playoffs in 07, and been a lesser team most of the other years. But I have to believe the Yanks wouldn’t have replaced him with some run of the mill player, they would have found someone who produces reasonably close to his level at some IF position, without all the headaches. The difference between A-Rod and . . . say Dan Uggla isn’t worth all the BS that comes along with Alex. Maybe we would be in a position to move Jeter to 3B right now as well.

          • Sweet Dick Willie says:

            the vast majority of the fan base and New York media have been rooting for A-Rod to fail.

            Change “vast majority” to “significant portion, albeit a minority” and I will agree with you. But the bigger question is “Why?”

            What is it about Alex that makes him such a polarizing figure? There may be one, but off the top of my head, I can’t think of another athlete that so many of the home fans dislike.

            I wasn’t around, but maybe Ted Williams? Or was it just the press that hated him?

            • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

              “What is it about Alex that makes him such a polarizing figure?”

              Does it really matter at this point? For whatever reason he is one, he’s never fit in here and now this happens. The fans aren’t going to change and neither is he. It’s just a bad relationship that’s hitting rock bottom.

              • Sweet Dick Willie says:

                Of course it doesn’t matter at this point, but I just find it fascinating that so many home town fans dislike this immensely talented athlete.

                And why didn’t the fans accept him from the beginning? It’s not like we traded an iconic player for him, or that he came from the RS. I just find the whole scenario very perplexing.

                • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

                  I think they sensed weakness. That he was mentally soft, and many NY fans HATE that. Also, he always seemed so scripted, he came across as phony. Again, that rubs many NY types the wrong way.

                  That’s why I think both he and we would be SO much happier if he was on the west coast. They embrace the qualities he has that us east coast types reject. It’s just a bad marriage here.

                • Donald Duck says:

                  “the vast majority of the fan base and New York media have been rooting for A-Rod to fail.”

                  No way most fans wanted him to fail. I never liked the guy but I do not like that is accurate. The media may have but not the majority of the fans.

                  As for the trade getting him being a no brainer, it was. Was everybody for it? NO. Not every fan wanted him here. I felt bad about the trade in the pit of my stomach but if I was the GM I would have made the move to. I think ownerships move to bring him back was a mistake at the time, and I think it has proven to be a mistake.

                  That money could have been spent a lot better for this team. That money could have bought us Manny and a bench, or Santana (because we could have made that trade and still gone after CC) and a ten million dollar player.

                  I do not wish for players to get injured but it would be nice to see this guy somehow not be able to play. Maybe he has flat feet or something and can not stand up all day so he has to stay home. That would be nice.

      • Elston32 says:

        No – I don’t mean because of today’s events that I hate the trade. I hated it in 2004 because there was that aspect of rooting for a home-grown Yankee (may be rationalizing since Sori was originally signed as an international free agent). Despite Soriano’s occasional defensive lapses and show-boating I believe there’s at least a certain familiarity with the guys that rise up through a teams’s minor league system (unlike what the Yanks have morphed into since @ 2003 – loading up on talented mercenaries from other teams – some of them with much “baggage” – mental as well as otherwise).

  22. I think all us A-Rod supporters should team up. Team Roid-Rod. Too soon?

    I know to today has been an utter disappointment, but there is nothing that can be changed now. When I growing up A-Rod was my favorite player. My favorite number is three because of him. Around the time he joined the Rangers, he faded from being my favorite player. I was joyous the day he joined the Yankees. I will be extremely disappointed the he leaves the Yankees. I have never booed him, never will. Never booed Bonds, if I ever had the chance again to boo Bonds I wouldn’t. Steroids are something I would never condone, however, people need to accept the fact that it is part of the game right now. A-Rod is a lightning rod (pun kind of intended) and this is not going to help. But us as fans need to back him. We backed the Giambino and Pettitte. Why not A-Rod? This man is baseball to me and to many others.

    • Paulie says:

      Your statement could not be more correct.

    • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

      You’re a Yankee fan and #3 makes you think of A-Rod? Seriously?

      #3 was Babe Ruth’s number. Stuff like that drives us older Yankee fans nuts. It shows that some are more a fans of certain players than they are fans of the team. We all have our faves, but #3 is so iconic that to attribute it to A-Rod first in your mind shows an utter lack of even the most rudimentary, basic Baseball background.

      • Wow. Seriously? A-Rod is not my favorite player anymore, as I said in the previous post. However, growing up he was. With that said, I do and will always relate that number to Ruth. However, all I said is that my favorite number is three because of A-Rod. Why is this not allowed to be? I’m sure if I was around to see Ruth play, then he would probably be the reason three is my favorite reason. So if i said my favorite number was four, but because of Gehrig, would you still have a problem? I just don’t get why, out of everything in my post, you attacked my favorite number? Dumb.

  23. LiveFromNewYork says:

    Are we saying that we absolutely positively know this to be true?

  24. Sweet! I have a reason to dislike Adam Morrison now.

  25. Matt says:

    Craig Austrie–FCIAC, represent.

  26. donttradecano says:

    some interesting charts:


    • LiveFromNewYork says:

      That is interesting. If testosterone is what he used, isn’t that just considered a hormone? And it didn’t affect him that much?

      I am not an A-rod fan but I’m not against him either. I think if he used testosterone he should just say it and be done with it.

      And all of us should stop wringing our hands and move on.

      • Steve H says:

        I am not an A-rod fan but I’m not against him either.

        Thank you for that. There are A-Rod bashers who truly want him to fail, then claim to be Yankee fans. I just don’t see how that can be possible, that you root for a team, but root against a player on that team. If that player does well, it helps the team you claim to be a fan of. At least you get that, which I appreciate.

      • It’s a steroid because of it’s chemical composition (five carbon rings, I believe). Moreover, hormones are steroids.

    • Chris says:

      Of course, in the comments on the charts, he assumes that Manny and Griffey are clean. Can we be sure that anyone was clean (well, besides Eckstein)?

  27. MoBoy says:

    If A-Rod not clean who is.I get a sick feeling that Pujos name will come out.Anyone breaking any records will have to be put in question.No one is safe.

  28. Weisdog says:

    Why hasn’t anyone jumped all over the fact that the list had 104 names on it, but somehow A-Rod is the only one who’s name was released? Let’s face it, in the late 90′s/early 00′s most, if not all (and yes I think there’s more than a 50% chance that Jeter was doing it was well) MLB players were using in some form or another. Why? Because they were not penalized for using them and the actually help the human body build muscle and recover. But yet the other 103 names have not been released. Did Roberts close her eyes, point to one name, open them and, what do you know her finger was pointing to A-Rod? No way. I know he’s to blame for showing up on the list in the first place, but still, this was supposed to be a SEALED list and now only A-Rod will feel the pain of being on it.

    • Ben K. says:

      No. Read some of the articles linked above.

      Roberts was researching a profile on A-Rod for Sports Illustrated. Someone told her the name was on the list, and she went about confirming it. She hasn’t seen the entire list, and it’s possible — but highly unlikely because four independent sources confirmed it — that A-Rod isn’t on the list.

      At some point the list may be released through the government investigation into steroids, but for now, there’s no reason to doubt the veracity of this story, and there’s a perfectly good reason why the other names have yet to be published.

      • Weisdog says:

        Ben – I’ve read a bunch of the articles – if you are about to out the best player in baseball as a steroid user, past or present, and the way you believe he was using was based on being told his name was on a list, wouldn’t the only way to confirm this be to actually see the physical list and make sure it looked official?

        • Weisdog says:

          And by the way, I believe that A-Rod was on the list – I don’t believe for a minute that one would be able to see one name and one name only on the list. If she didn’t see the list then that’s a pretty poor job of verification and a good indication about her credibility as a reporter.

          • Ben K. says:

            I see what you’re saying, and I’m of two minds. On the one hand, I can see how it might not be possible to get the list. She did after all say in the article that four sources confirmed to her that A-Rod is on the list. She’s being pretty explicit about covering her bases.

            At the same time, I can see why she might want to wait to get a copy of the list to confirm it. However, at this point, if no one has released the list and no one who has the list has come forward denying it, I come out where you do: A-Rod is on the list.

  29. Weisdog says:

    Oh, and also, who wants to talk about Torre’s book now?

  30. Patrick T says:

    The part about this stuff that annoys me the most, and I know its been said before, is how sanctimonious the media gets about it. For one, of all the stuff that goes on in the world today, people taking drugs (performance-enhancing or otherwise) is hardly the worst offense. More importantly, where were all these hard-hitting reporters back when everyone was taking steroids? High and mighty Olney for one was right in the Yankee clubhouse doing hack jobs for the NYT with Clemens, Petitte and god knows how many other users-likely users in it. Great reporting, jackass. Your ability to regurgitate others sources while foaming at the mouth with some moral outrage is award-worthy.

    And Olney is only one of many. The entire baseball team at ESPN save Neyer and Law just play the same broken record over and over. No different at SI or any of the other media outlets. They’re not reporting scandal, they’re creating scandal in the hopes of keeping their increasingly unnecessary jobs relevant.

    My take on the actual news here? Someday, 30-40 years from now, when everyone who played from 1990-present is retired, and when the people writing about the game can do so without the same rehashed vitriol, we’ll find out that truly 4 out of 5 players were taking some type of performance enhancer and any attempts to try and contrast the users from the non is a fool’s game.

    Oh, and for the matter, at least 1 in 5 is probably still using, they’ve just gotten savvier about covering it up.

  31. To everyone who is spazzing out: can we put this “0h n003$!!!1111!!! n01 in +3h w0r1d i$ cl3@n!!111!!” talk aside? Can cynicism be put aside? Can we enjoy baseball for what it is now without entirely freaking out about every event that happened in the past? kthanxbye.

  32. NY Yankee Fan says:

    Roberts is a journalist with four sources that refuse to give their names. She actually has not seen any underlying documents that confirm this no-name statements. She would not even provide basic information on MLB Network the caliber of the source (for instance, FBI agents). I mean she says that she has no other names and she has no information of use other then 2003. As far as I am concerned, it is shameless journalism at its worst when a newspaper or magazine can tear a person to shreds without putting a single name to allegations that are published as fact. Forgive me, but I will wait until I the federal suit is resolved and the names of the 104 players released to draw a conclusion. I would suggest other fans do the same.

    • Why would she name her sources without being required to do so by the Feds? While it would help the credibility of her story, do you know how scared to balls future potential sources would be knowing that something about them could be outed if she got anything from them?

      • NY Yankee Fan says:

        Without names we cannot judge the credibility of the story. And based upon four nameless people, each of whom may hate A-Rod, we are ready to accept that he did steroids despite not being named in the Mitchell Report. Roberts was even allowed to skate on the type of sources, which Pablo she should have revealed because that is common in journalism in these types of situations. Maybe the article will provide more context, but right now for all we know the information came from four drunk Red Sox fans in a Boston bar.

        • Steve H says:

          To add to your point. What if it comes out that the story is wrong, would Roberts then name her sources? Do they have any incentive to tell the truth? I’m guessing Roberts, if proven wrong, still wouldn’t name her sources for the same reason she’s not naming them now. So the unnamed, anonymous sources have no chance of being called out, whether being truthful or not.

        • Four things:

          1) We must understand that journalists do have some sort of standards.
          2) You’re being overly simplistic. If you’re a credible source and I’m a reporter, why would you risk your career by allowing me to give out your name for my story?
          3) At least two times out of three, these “anonymous” sources are right, anyway.
          4) When the sources are independent and in specific positions (e.g. FBI agents), it’s hard to do so without bring up more questions. Why should an FBI agent have shared something that was confidential under court order? Why should a team official have shared something he wasn’t supposed to know about? Why would one player make a dick move on another player? And on it goes…

          • NY Yankee Fan says:

            If sources had real access to the test results why is it that they only had A-Rod’s name? So it may be overly simplistic, but anyone with access to the actual test results would likely have more names then one. As such, the information is likely secondary in nature, which makes it less reliable. Untile we know, at a minimum, the type of source, we cannot even begin judge veracity. So again, why don’t we wait before assuming that one of our players used using roids in the absence of any other proof.

        • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

          That’s just silly. If sources had to be outed, then nobody would ever say anything to the media, and that’s bad for Democracy. I don’t think we should throw out freedom of the press for some stupid, drugged up ballplayer.

          Its true that all 4 of these folks broke the law by outing him, but good luck prosecuting that. There’s only 1 person who knows who they are, and she isn’t talking. Not if she ever wants to work in journalism again.

          • Count Zero says:

            Totally agree with your first paragraph. However…

            The problem with these situations — this one and the release of what was sealed Grand Jury testimony on the BALCO case — is that people are undermining the American Justice system doing this stuff, and not paying a price for it.

            Going back to the BALCO case, Grand Jury testimony is sealed for a reason — because the concept is that a witness will feel free to always tell the truth no matter what the situation. Often, they later do not have to testify at trial. When the sanctity of the Grand Jury process is undermined by releasing sealed records and splashing them all over the front pages, we are destroying our own justice system — which is every bit as bad as destroying freedom of the press IMO. The reporters who broke that story should have been forced to reveal how they got that testimony, or they should have been held for contempt of court.

            Same reasoning applies here — do you think the MLBPA will ever agree to do any sort of “confidential” or “anonymous” anything ever again? I would say not. The whole point here was that the MLBPA only agreed to the testing because it was supposed to be anonymous. Now it turns out that it was anything but.

            When we guarantee people anonymity or secrecy because we feel that it’s more important to get at the truth than to prosecute them, it’s usually because what’s at stake is pretty large. If we undermine our system (and the press is constantly doing just that), then no one will ever tell the truth under any promise of anonymity or immunity ever again. If I were a lawyer faced with those circumstances, I would argue against my client testifying before a Grand Jury no matter what guarantees were made under the premise that no government agency seems to be able to live up to its promise of anonymity or sanctity of testimony.

            The only way to restore that faith right now is to begin prosecuting the press until they reveal how they got access to what was supposed to be a sealed record — the people breaking those laws need to be prosecuted, and the reporters are the only ones who have the evidence to do it.

            • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

              You’re absolutely right, but in this instance its very unlikely to happen. You would have to have a Federal Judge threaten to throw the reporter in jail, like the NYT’s Judith Miller in the Scooter Libby case. In a case like this, in the jurisdictions were talking about, I just don’t see it happening.

      • 27 this year says:

        maybe she like Heyman, is getting tips from Boras. Maybe its a scheme to get the Yanks to release him paying off the contract and so ARod could get more money from another team or come crying back to the yanks. Shocking…

        • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

          Maybe this is a conspiracy by Alex to get the Yanks to pay off his contract so he can run off with Madonna to study Kaballah and have her piss on his head.

      • Currambayankees says:

        Maybe that’s what the Fed’s have to do compell the names from her and prosecute them. Maybe then we’ll get a single source that gives all the names once and for all.

  33. oscarazocar says:

    It’s just enough with this guy already. Whether or not he’s on roids now or not is a moot point. The constant distraction never ends. Great, something else to weigh on his mind while he’s trying to knock in a run in the late innings…..I never root for him to fail since he’s obviously a vital componet to the team. But watching him everyday, I do not believe he’s a great player. A great talent, sure. We all know the shortcomings. Outside of 2007, this guy has not been clutch during the regular season and obviously the post season speaks for itself. He’s a numbers guy, granted, a very big numbers guy. But now that the numbers are tainted, maybe we can get away from hearing the “best player in the game” crap. The greats don’t melt down when it matters. The greats can focus on the task at hand. Hopefully, he’ll man up and be truthful about whatever happened and not go out all the time and give the paparazzi what they want. Just shut up and play (and get rid of the frosted tips)

    • Matt says:

      “But watching him everyday, I do not believe he’s a great player”

      Don’t know who you’re watching…

      “Outside of 2007, this guy has not been clutch during the regular season and obviously the post season speaks for itself. ”

      He’s had some great postseasons, and he’s had some dreadful ones–just like everyone else.

      High leverage situations:
      2008: .813 OPS, meh, not A-Rodish but still good
      2007: 1.146, fantastic
      2006: .867, good
      2005: .875, good
      2004: .964, great

      • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

        Yeah, he’s a pain in the ass but saying he’s ‘not a great player’ is either irrational, uninformed, or both.


        Here’s the list of MLB 3B. Tell me which one you want over Alex.

        • oscarazocar says:

          I’m plenty rational and plenty informed, as I’m sure you are. Plenty of 3B I’d take over Alex because I value more than numbers. Look, I define greatness by more than what’s on the back of a baseball card. I feel he is overrated based on the gaudy stats. That’s all I’m saying. And sadly, now you have to question some of those numbers. Anyway, I respect the passion in your response. We disagree on this one but hopefully we have happier things to discuss this year.

      • oscarazocar says:

        With all due respect, we simply have different definitions of great. You can beat me over the head with OPS all you want. We all know the guy has numbers. Greatness is more than that. I’m watching the same guy as you. How many runs did this guy drive in from the 7th inning on last year? Look that up and you’ll see why I have an issue with people who say he’s the best in the game. When Michael Jordan takes a shot in the closing seconds the whole crowd expects him to make and he usually does. Great player. Was the best in his game. When A -Rod comes up in a clutch situation, the whole ballpark expects him to fail and he usually does. His numbers will always be there. Numbers have not meant anything to me for a long time.

  34. sar515 says:

    Before all the Yankee-haters start to crucify A-Rod…
    they may want to wait to see if their favorite players are part of the unnamed 103!

  35. Thomas says:

    ESPN Page 2 has a list of the worst contracts in baseball history. It actually a well done list and quite funny.


  36. NC Saint says:

    “This is a fairly significant American scandal.”

    How? Credit Rating Agencies slapping AAA ratings on diversified shit on the theory that housing prices couldn’t fall everywhere at once is a significant American scandal. People cheating while playing a game should not be a story outside the sports page. The only steroid-related scandal in America is that congress ever got involved. That’s something we can all be ashamed of.

  37. BigBlueAL says:

    I think the biggest problem with A-Rod is the whole chasing Bonds HR record. It was easy for us to root for Giambi and such because he was a good guy and who cares really he did steroids, he wasnt and isnt going to break any records or be considered for the HOF.

    BUT one of the main reasons for re-signing A-Rod was to watch him make history. But that is meaningless now. I could care less about his records in the future and only care if the Yankees win a WS and deep down I always hoped A-Rod (even though I am not a big fan of his at all) will eventually have a big-time October (which he can still have) and break all the records so then as I grow older I could say I saw the greatest player of all-time playing on my favorite team.

    Maybe its stupid but thats how I feel about it now. I have never really liked A-Rod but always appreciated the fact that I can watch my favorite team play everyday and in the process watch one of the greatest players of all-time. Now that sentiment is completely gone and he is just another great player with a tarnished legacy like Clemens and Bonds before him (I dont care about guys like Sosa, McGwire and Palmeiro because I never held them in that high regard anyway).

    It would be something though if he has another season like he did in 2007 in 2009….

    • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

      “I could care less about his records in the future and only care if the Yankees win a WS”

      Nice to see a fellow fan who gets it. Players come and go, managers come and go. It’s all about winning with the Yanks. If a player or two reaches a personal milestone or two along the way by helping us win, that’s nice, but it’s not what should define the Yanks or any of its players.

      That’s why Derek is and always will be a true Yankee in the hearts of most fans. He gets it, too.

      • Macphisto says:

        Unfortunately, tho, guys like Randy Levine do care about the milestones and records. That is why he and the Goldman Sachs crowd got together and worked out a contract for A-Rod after the Yanks had already walked away. They had visions of mega ad dollars on YES as A-Rod chased the record as the “clean” athlete taking it back from Barry. And, now we are stuck with this and the chase that will always have this day overshadowing it for the next nine years. It just really, really sucks.

  38. usty says:

    “Do you want to know the terrifying truth? Or do you want to see me sock a few dingers?”


  39. Defender90 says:

    ARod and Jeter were best friends until ARod claimed Jeter was #2 while he, ARod was #1. Jeter has never let this go since.

    Do you think it is possible that Jeter has known this entire time that ARod was juicing?

    This would explain a heck of a lot more in regards to their cold relationship.

  40. Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

    My main question is how Alex responds to this. He has always been driven by achieving milestones, and has to know those numbers are all tarnished at this point. Does he still want to put in the work he has previously chasing this Pyrrhic goal?

    We’ve seen how fragile he can be mentally, in the rough time he had adjusting to NY and in the playoffs, does he need a change of scenery at this point? Would the Yankees welcome that, or try to make things work here?

    There were elements of the Yankee brass that didn’t want to resign him after his opting out, and they must feel very smart today.

    • Old Ranger says:

      We know A-Rod is a ME 1st guy because…..?
      We know A-Rod is a man driven for milestones, because…..?

      BS…that stuff is crap! Most of that is made-up by reporters…the same way they made up stories about Roger and Mickey not liking each other…false. One can’t go after milestones. If one has the talent, milestones will come along no matter if you want them or not…See, Roger Maris.
      Myself, I have never liked him that much…respected his talent…damn right, and still do.

      • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

        “We know A-Rod is a ME 1st guy because…..?
        We know A-Rod is a man driven for milestones, because…..?”

        It was written into his contract. All sorts of extra $$ for 600 HR’s, 660/661, 714/715, 755/756, 762/763.

        Torre also recently wrote about Alex being a “numbers guy” in his new book.

        You can dismiss it all you want, blame the media, but this “numbers guy” stuff goes all the way back to Seattle with him. They cant all be in cahoots against Alex, there must be some truth to it.

  41. Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

    Cashman “Hey Ned, it’s Brian”
    Ned Colletti “Hey Brian, what’s up?”
    Cashman “You need a SS?”
    Ned Colletti “Well, we did just lose Furcal”
    Cashman “How bout A-Rod?”
    Ned Colletti “Ugh, we can barely afford Manny”
    Cashman “I’ll eat 1/3 of his deal”
    Ned Colletti “I still can’t give you much back”
    Cashman “Deal”
    Ned Colletti “Oh, Joe will just love this.”

  42. Ace says:

    What an absolutely horrific day for baseball and the Yankees. I spent the day with my 5 year old and 4 year old nephews who were born into a Yankee family. They are sleeping in my bedroom right now with Yankees pajamas on.

    How am I supposed to explain something like this?

    “The best player in all of baseball and the best player on the Yankees is a cheater. He took illegal drugs to become a better baseball player.”

    • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

      “How am I supposed to explain something like this?”

      Tell him the guy that works in your local Firehouse, Police station or Army base is a bigger hero than some egotistical douchebag who hits a baseball for a living.

      • So. Should I not watch sports anymore? Should I just idolize Office Jack Meoff?

        And I like how you scampered off after you criticized my reason for liking the number three. I thought we here at RAB had debates not make some bold statements and then just run off?

        • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

          You’re obviously looking for a fight, and I’m not interested in what you think about anything.

          • I’m not looking for a fight. But for you too jump on my case because I said my favorite number is three because of A-Rod was ridiculous. And I give you a chance to explain yourself and you can’t. Dumb.

  43. Old Ranger says:

    Mickey Mantle…
    A drunk, womanizer and all around, the best baseball player I ever saw!
    One of a very very few ball players, I would put in a group with Mickey.
    I don’t (and never will) judge a player on anything other then his ability to help the team win. They are paid big $$$$ to win, that’s the name of the game. I understand the disappointment most of us feel with this news of A-Rod. The bottom line is, so what! As has been stated (with no facts) here, more then likely 75% of the players were using, or tried. How are we ever going to know who used and who didn’t?
    So, the name of the game is still, we are for the guys on the field in Yankee uniforms…whether it is A-Rod or IPK, they are our Yankees.

  44. JackFrost says:

    According to the Mitchell Report, Orza tipped a player (Who which we can now all assume was A-rod) about an impending unannounced test back in Sept ’04. If my memory serves me correctly, A-rod had a pretty descent post season that year, particularly against The Twins. Ever since testing has been done on a more frequent and random basis, his other subsequent post season outings have been subpar and non-existent. Something to think about.

    • Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

      He was Superman for all of 2007, and its tough to judge anyone on a 5 game series, good or bad.

  45. VO says:

    If Andruw Jones would have accepted the invitee to spring trainning, do you think he would have beat out Melky and Gardner?

  46. Manimal says:

    Is it just me, or does anyone else think those 4 anonymous sources were all Conseco with different phones.

  47. Artist formerly known as 'The' Steve says:

    “More On Selena Roberts
    Just came across an interesting tidbit about SI’s Selena Roberts. She’s apparently the author of a soon-to-be released book called, “Hit And Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez.” From what I’ve gathered through several web searches, the book is described as “an expose of A-Rod’s controversial path to self-destruction.” Something tells me the purpose of this book is not intended to paint A-Rod in a positive light.

    I’m sure Alex is aware of the book and I’m sure Alex knows who Selena Roberts is. Why would he give her the time of day and answer any questions she asks him? She should have known that he’d blow her off when she asked him about testing positive. His failure to say anything to her shouldn’t be read as an admission of guilt, which is kind of how it came across in her interview with Bob Costas. I may not have the quote 100% correct, but she basically said, “He could have said I don’t know who your sources are but their dead wrong.” Hence, she believes her sources even more.

    Could this be just a ploy to sell a few extra books? If Alex comes out and says she’s wrong and that he never tested positive, then what? Then it turns into he said, she said and then how do we know who to really believe. What if someone trots out 4 anonymous and “reliable” sources that say he didn’t test positive and the SI article is a fabrication. It’s not out of the realm of possibility, especially when people say they have anonymous sources. There’s really no way for anyone, other than the person citing the sources, to verify it’s authenticity, right?”


  48. Manimal says:

    Is Matt around? I had a question about Uconn that I couldn’t find an answer too on their website.

  49. Currambayankees says:

    If they are going to crucify a Yankees player, I want all 103 players on this so called list crucified give me all the names that is if you are telling the truth. Selena should get her ass back to those sources to get all names on the list ohterwise she a hypocrite. Condemn one while letting the rest off the hook.

    • A-Rod says:

      but hey she was just doing a profile on me..

      • Currambayankees says:

        See this is where as a reporter she has to try to provided all names because she knows there are supposedly another 103 names on that list otherwise to me she looses credability.

    • donttradecano says:

      she claims not to know the rest of the names, heres the bigger question:

      why put this in the book, and let it out to the public, if you havent seen the list yourself and are going on other peoples word?

  50. Manimal says:

    hahaha its official, Matt Cassell will now make more money in 2009 then Andy Pettitte.

  51. A-Rod says:

    A-Rod will come out stronger. He thrives on attention & he has it now. When he was out with the blond in Toronto he had his best year.

    This year will put them all to shame & maybe just maybe he’ll get some well desreved love.

    I for one am rooting for him – but I have a feeling he’ll be just fine.

  52. donttradecano says:

    Roberts also declined to reveal her sources. When asked by Costas if she thought that those sources may have an agenda or an axe to grind, Roberts said she “was not aware of any.”

    During the interview, it was stressed that there was no indication that Rodriguez had used steroids either before or after 2003. During the course of MLB Network’s coverage, Costas and several others on the MLB Network panel seemed befuddled as to why the positive test, which was supposed to remain confidential, was leaked.

    • A-Rod says:

      Their befuddled and i’m just plain stunned. What does a brother have to do to keep his privacy??? What is this country coming to if you can’t even trust that list will be kept confidential..

  53. baseballfan says:

    MADROID scumbags!! well if he gets kicked out of the yankees and becomes unemployed he can take up fuckin soulmate maddy old hags offer to shag her for a baby, maddy will support him financially.

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