The Manny/Matsui divide

The travails of relocation
Again with the Jeter standing up for A-Rod thing

It’s been a while 24 hours since we last checked in on Manny Ramirez, and, well, there have been some interesting developments that could impact the Yanks.

According to the latest from various sources, succinctly summarized for us by MLBTR, the Dodgers have extended a one-year, $25-million offer to Manny. The Dodgers have also made this a conditional offer: Manny and Scott Boras have 48 hours to accept it or Ramirez will once again be left offer-less with around ten days left until pitchers and catchers report.

In a way, a one-year deal from Los Angeles would be exactly what the vocal group of Yankee fans who want to see Manny arrive in the Bronx want. As iYankees noted earlier, the Yankees will be looking for a full-time DH following the 2009 season. Hideki Matsui will be a free agent, unlikely to return; Johnny Damon will be a free agent, unlikely to return; and Xavier Nady will be a free agent with his return contingent upon his 2009 season. Manny would, to quote Buster Olney, be a perfect fit for the Yankees in tens months.

For now, though, it seems highly unlikely that the future Hall of Famer will wind up in the Bronx. Next off-season, we can debate the virtues and pitfalls of courting a then-37-year-old Manny, but for now, let’s look at production just because. Last year, splitting his time between L.A. and Boston, Manny hit .332/.430/.601 with a combined 164 OPS+ in 153 games. He was by and large the best offensive player in the game last year.

Meanwhile, in the American League, DHs hardly fulfilled half of their collective role. AL DHs as a group hit .256/.339/.435, and the Yanks’ various DHs hit .282/.378/.461. That’s a respectable total, but is it a realistic goal for 2009?

Last year, in limited duty, Matsui hit .294/.370/.424 with a 108 OPS+. This year, he’ll be the Yanks’ primary DH with Jorge Posada, Damon, Nady and Nick Swisher filling out the rotation. This disparity — 50 OPS+ points and a whopping .140 slugging difference — is why, if the Yanks had the money and the will to land Manny, they should. When a player offers that much of an upgrade, a GM deals with a logjam on the roster after improving the team.

Of course, this is reality and not fantasy baseball. As rich as the Yanks are, they are still constrained by the realities of the economy in Feb. 2009. They’ve spent a lot of money and can’t spend more. But if Manny takes this one-year offer and excels in L.A. this year, the Yanks, with money coming off of their books, and their fans can have this debate all over again.

* * *

Update: Manny has already turned down the Dodgers’ offer. Twice, Los Angeles has put an offer out there, and twice, the Ramirez camp has turned it down. No other team has yet to offer the slugger a deal this winter.

The travails of relocation
Again with the Jeter standing up for A-Rod thing
  • Eyeadapt

    .I would love Manny for a year but trying to get a all-star at every position is what gets the Yanks in messes

    • Spaceman.Spiff

      Agreed, we should pursue more grit per position. Too many all stars is bad, we need more grit!

    • steve (different one)

      I would love Manny for a year but trying to get a all-star at every position is what gets the Yanks in messes

      not really.

      having weak pitching is what gets them in “messes”.

      the 2009 Yankees should have one of the best pitching staffs in the majors.

      • Bo

        Since when does having great players littered all over been a problem for any team?

        • Chris

          I think (hope) his point was that we shouldn’t try to get past all stars. It doesn’t matter how good someone has been, it only matters how good they will be. Specific examples of this type of thinking were Randy Johnson and Kevin Brown. Both very good back in the day, but not very good with the Yankees. Manny on a 1 year deal wouldn’t have this problem, but on a 4 year deal you might have issues.

          • tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            However, this phrase/concept (“trying to get a all-star at every position is what gets the Yanks in messes”) being bandied about is a misnomer itself.

            The Yankees never “tried to get an All-Star at every position”. Neither the Don nor his kids Michael and Santino ever said to Cashman, “Brian, I think we should have an All-Star at every position; go make that happen.” What we did then and continue to do now is try and upgrade each and every position on our 25-man roster to be the best players we can have, both in the present and future. Our large budget allows many of those upgrades to be players so good that many of them turn out to be All-Stars, but saying that we are trying to build a team of All-Stars is ascribing the results of the process (which may seem skewed due to our singularity as the only 200M payroll club) to the process itself, which is sound and universal to all baseball teams.

            • Sweet Dick Willie

              I think it was Fredo’s idea.

    • tony p

      The yankees are missing the boat in their winning years they had speed and youth , they need to go after Maybin from the marlins he would be a good fit in center field and bring some enthusiam to this team .

  • John

    lets wait and see what type of year Matsui has. If its pretty good, then we shouldnt sign Manny as Matsui will probably be considerably cheaper (given Manny tears it up again)

    • Ben K.

      I think Matsui would have to hit .400 and win the MVP for the Yanks to considering resigning him after this year. Just my hunch.

      • John

        well lets hope he hits that…is .400 too much to ask for?

      • Artist formerly known as ‘The’ Steve

        Yeah, as much as he’s been a good player when healthy, he falls into the all-bat/no-glove category of player that the Yanks are trying to get away from as they seek to get younger and more athletic.

        Others are Giambi, Abreu, and to a lesser extent Damon, whose numbers look great in CF but middling in Left. Jeter also falls into this category, but as Yankee fans we’re not allowed to think that.

        • Bo

          I think theres a lil dif between his all bat no glove and the guys the Yankees have had the past 8 years. Just a small bit.

          • tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Are you talking about Manny or Matsui?

            Because yes, there’s a difference between Manny and the all-bat-no-glove guys we’ve had around here recently. For Matsui, not so much.

            Ben and “The Artist” were speaking about Matsui being the same type of player we’d wisely avoid resigning.

            We’re all in agreement that Manny is a different beast, I think.

  • Eyeadapt

    Your sarcasm is duly noted and but yes more “grit” would be awesome. The team is plenty fine as it stands imo.

    • http://deleted Al

      no offense, but saying “the team is plenty fine as it stands imo” when one of the greatest baseball players of all time (still at his finest) is available is exactly what prevents a team from winning the WS. The Mets will find this out when they don’t make the WS without Manny.

      So you don’t want Manny because “the team is fine.” Pretty weak to me. Does “fine” mean they are good enough to be given the world series before the season begins? Since the answer is no, I think every opportunity to improve the team should be considered. Does Manny improve the team? Yes. It’s as simple as that.

      • Artist formerly known as ‘The’ Steve

        Every team in Baseball could use a player like Manny, but its not that simple. What it will cost, how he fits in the roster/clubhouse and the baggage he brings are all considerations, any of which is a justifiable reason to pass.

        As I laid out below, in the Yanks case Manny would cost 41.5 mil next year. The difference between Matsui and Manny isn’t worth adding 41.5 mil, not if it’s your money being spent.

      • jsbrendog

        The Mets will find this out when they don’t make the (WS) without Manny.

        The Mets will find this out when they don’t make the PLAYOFFS without Manny.

        there, fixed

  • AMS223

    so what is it 32-33 mill off the books for those 3 players (Matsui, Damon, Nady)..

    Then you can sign manny for 2 years 40 mill and Damon for 2 years 20 mill which is 30 mill.

    Damon LF
    Jeter SS
    Tex 1B
    Arod 3B
    Manny DH
    Posada C
    Swisher RF
    Cano 2B
    A Jax CF

    • John


    • Bryan V

      Minus the contracts of Damon, Matsui, and Nady, they are up $32.55 million. However, you have to factor in the salary increases of CC (+$9m), Jeter (+$1m), and Swisher (+$1.45m).

      So the team is really only up $23.1 million. And that doesn’t take into account guys like Wang, Joba, Hughes, etc…who will make more money in 2010 than they are in 2009.

      • AMS223

        but also subtract pettitte

      • iYankees

        What’s the plus $9 mill? CC is making that this year, in bonus payments.

        • BJ

          Sure, but that isn’t part of the payroll, so no luxury tax.

      • A.D.

        Cano’s contract goes up too

  • i smell 27


  • Baseball Beat

    Interesting, I guess we might get to hear a whole new batch of Manny to the Yanks rumors all next winter.

  • Stephen

    I say why not, if onlyto hear all the other teams whine about salary caps and yadda yadda yadda again. Let’s just embrace the ‘Evil Empire’ moniker and sign Manny.

  • AMS223

    well according to MLBTR Manny already declined this

    “1:33am: Ramirez has turned down the Dodgers’ one-year offer, Dylan Hernandez of the Los Angeles Times reports.

    Hernandez lists the New York Mets, San Francisco Giants and Washington Nationals as teams that are monitoring Ramirez’s market.

    The Dodgers could find themselves in a bind if Ramirez receives a multi-year offer from another club. If Ramirez is offered what he considers a fair deal, sources close to him say that he wouldn’t grant the Dodgers a chance to match it, forcing the Dodgers to go into Spring Training without their only star attraction and reliable run producer.”

    • Baseballnation

      Just a hunch but If Ramirez does in fact shun the Dodgers, I believe they would hit the Dunn speed dial button.

      • Bo

        Dunn is no Manny.

        Couple that with losing their ace and thats a terrible off season.

  • Tom Zig

    What is Manny even looking for? The economy crashed a while ago.

    • Artist formerly known as ‘The’ Steve

      In Manny world, the economy is booming.

      • The Ghost of Darrell Rasner

        He really needs to replace the grill he sold on Ebay.

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  • Artist formerly known as ‘The’ Steve

    So it appears Manny won’t listen to anything less than 50 mil for 2 years. For those who think the Yanks should get him, here’s what that will cost the Yanks:

    25 mil salary
    +10 mil 40% luxury tax
    +6.5 mil eat 1/2 Matsui’s salary in order to trade him

    =41.5 mil for 2009 Manny Ramirez

    50 Points of OPS+ is great, but one extra base every 4 games isn’t worth 41.5 mil.

    • Mike Pop

      But the terror that is


      is worth it. Imagine if Yanks signed him, every baseball analyst/player/front office guy, etc would just have an expression of O.M.G.

      • My Geass Makes You My Slave

        He has to be extremely cheap for us to get him next year. I doubt we’re going to get him unless our offense still struggles and we pick him up. He isn’t worth that much money to not even play a defensive position. Just let him walk…

    • TurnTwo

      you paying?

      • Bo

        What is the obsession with getting under 2008’s payroll?

        Imagine the ratings with Manny on the YES network especially all 19 games vs Boston.

        The guy pays for himself.

        • tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          A) You’re not the Steinbrenner family. If you already laid out 200M, you may feel differently about shelling out any more of your money. During a recession, no less.

          B) We think he pays for himself. But realistically, do you think there’s more advertising dollars out there right now? YES is already probably sold out it’s advertising spots for the regular season games; adding Manny at this point may not really boost revenue all that much anyway. He helps us win, yes; he incrementally increases revenue, sure; how much he does both of those two things may not necessarily pay for themselves. It’s debatable, it’s not a slam dunk.

      • Artist formerly known as ‘The’ Steve

        Yes, I have a season ticket plan.

    • toad

      No. You can’t count part of Matsui’s salary as a cost of getting Ramirez. You pay that whether you sign Manny or not. If you can trade Matsui and only have to pay half his salary – which seems unlikely to me – you save $6.5 million, plus the luxury tax on the 6.5.

  • Sweet Dick Willie

    Manny hit .332/.430/.601 with a combined 164 OPS+ in 153 games. He was by and large the best offensive player in the game last year.

    You keep forgetting Albert. As good a year Manny had, he was no match for Pujols -.357/.462/.653 and 190 OPS+.

    • steve (different one)


      i think from now on, whenever we start saying things like “best hitter in the league” or “best player in baseball” or whatever, we need to have an automatic qualifier “*Non-Pujols Division”. or NPD for short.

      b/c right now, that guy is simply in another stratosphere, and it’s too much typing to explain that every time….when comparing hitters it’s basically Pujols….then everyone else, and being the best of “everyone else” is still an incredible distinction that shouldn’t have to be discounted simply because there is an alien from some other planet, a planet where they’ve been playing baseball for 10,000 years, who plays 1B for the Cardinals.

      just a thought.

      • jsbrendog

        its pujols


        then everyone else

        • Sweet Dick Willie

          Alex is right there with Manny. Well, except for the rings.

          • Brian

            I agree. Manny is given more credit than he deserves.

            He’s a great hitter, but has no defensive ability. There are multiple hitters in or near his caliber.

  • Yankeegirl49

    No one is taking into consideration that Posada may end up being the full time DH next season depending on his shoulder.

  • Januz

    It is no shock that Manny said no. No matter what anyone thinks of Scott Boras, he had a great offseason (Veritek aside). He got big contracts for Tex and , Lowe, and got Oliver Perez almost the same contract Krod got, in this economy. So he has to feel confident he can do better with Manny (San Francisco Giants?).
    If Manny leaves the biggest LOSER this offseason will be the Dodgers. No Manny, no Lowe, and a manager who no one can trust. Throw in the Angels bad offseason (Tex, Krod etc), and the woeful Padres, and Southern California baseball looks dead (Better be praying for the Lakers out there).

    • Jay CT

      Just to play devils advocate here-

      1. The Lowe situation; he didn’t want to go back there. They will be solid with Billingsly, Kershaw, Kurudu and Wolf.

      2. They will bring in Adam Dunn or Abreu if they lose Manny, so although that might not be Manny, its still not too bad.

      3. They resigned Casey Blake, and signed MARK LORETTA!!!

      I don’t think this is the biggest loser in the league

      • steve (different one)

        they will be one of the biggest losers if Manny signs with the Giants.

        • Bo

          How the Giants don’t offer him 2 yrs 50 mill right now and swoop in and win the West is beyond me.

          But hey giving Renteria 10 mil a yr and Randy Johnson 8 is certainly going to win them a div title.

        • Whitey14

          I think Boras has had an awful offseason. He was seeking much bigger deals for his clients and outside of Teixeira, none of them came close. He’s badly mangled things with Ramirez and Varitek. Varitek could have had $10+ million for the upcoming season and a chance to show whether his season was a fluke or not. Boras continues to decline offers from the one team left that can afford to pay Ramirez what he wants. His arrogance is unsurpassed and if any of his clients truly believe he has their best interests in mind when negotitating they’re crazy. He wants them to get paid so he will get paid. He has, and has always had, his own best interests at heart. Not that that’s wrong, but let’s call a spade a spade. The guy is a douchebag and shares responsibility for the salaries being as high as they are and as a direct result of salaries, ticket prices being as high as they are. He sure as fuck doesn’t care what you and I have to pay to go see a game as long as he can still watch from his box behind home plate in Anaheim. Does it make anybody else queasy that Ramirez is out there turning down $25 million dollars while millions of American struggle to make ends meet. It was bad enough when he turned all crybaby/quitter in Boston because they weren’t ready to exercise his two options before they were even due. This was a guy who was so concerned about his future “security” and wanted those options picked up that he’s now decided to go into February with no deal. Ramirez and Boras deserve each other and I hope LA goes out and grabs Abreu and/or Dunn with some of the money they were offering. Let Manny make less and have to spend a season in SF or Washington.

          Also, to disagree with a previous poster who said “one of the greatest baseball players of all time (still at his finest) is available” that should read “one of the greatest hitters of the last 40 years”. His numbers wouldn’t change, but if Mays, Aaron, Williams, Mantle, Ruth, Gehrig etc. had played against an additional 14 teams worth of watered down pitching the standards and records that guys are chasing these days would be soooooo much higher and Manny’s offensive numbers, although certainly stellar in this era, wouldn’t look as good in comparison with the games legends.

          • Jay CT

            Completely disagree. Tex was a win. Lowe was a win. Perez may not have been a win, but he still got a nice payday on a short term, and will hit the market again as a 30 year old lefty. He got Prince Fielder a nice contract for his last 2 arbitration years, and Ryan Madson, who was crappy before last year, got a 3 year deal for 12 million. Manny hasn’t signed yet, therefore, you still can’t call it a loss. Boras could very well be waiting for spring training because if someone gets hurt, Manny could be very attractive. And, everyone knows he doesn’t need spring ball. All he does is show up and hit. There is little defense to him anyway.

            In a terrible economy, and an extreme buyers market, I think Boras has shown once again that he is the greatest.

            • Whitey14

              You are correct on Madson and Fielder.

  • MattG

    That money coming off the books is in trust for Matt Holiday. He is a very talented right handed bat with a right field swing, in his prime, plays passable defense, and has ‘grit.’ I hate the fact he is represented by Boras (because I would only like to give him 4 years), and he doesn’t really see all that many pitches, but he is still a very good fit, if not perfect.

    If Boston reups Bay during the season, Holiday to the Yankees is all but done.

    • Jay CT

      He also keeps himself in amazing shape. He has some crazy workout that he does because he doesn’t want to fall off as he gets older, or at least this what what he told ESPN last year.

      Either way, I think Manny makes a hell of a lot of sense. I won’t be upset if he doesn’t sign with the Yankees, but I wouldn’t let money get in the way. There are plenty of options arriving soon. If Manny and Girardi won’t get along and a ton of drama is going to follow, I don’t know if it will work. This isn’t Saint Joe we are talking about here…

      One of the only times I can remember looking forward to hearing MIke on the radio is today…

      • Chris

        Is this crazy workout like Clemens? I wonder if it includes the shots as well…

        • Should be working

          No but it does include temp changing gels applied to the testes.

    • Should be working

      How so? You still have to see how he plays a full season away from Coors and in the AL. Not to mention do the Yankees really want to put another huge contract on the payroll? I cant see him signing for 4 or less. Depending how Damon does this season, I can see us passing on Holliday.

      • Jay CT

        I would prefer Manny to another 8 year deal for Holliday

      • MattG

        I don’t have to see it–Oakland didn’t. The way Holiday hits, he looks like a great fit for Yankee stadium. I expect him to play well in Oakland, although the environment will certainly affect his numbers.

        The Yankees do get to see it, but I don’t think Oakland is guessing. I bet they have a method of equalizing performance they are very happy with–that, coupled with the way I can see Holiday drives the ball to right field, makes me confident he would hit very well at Yankee Stadium.

        If someone wants to give him 8 years, he won’t be a Yankee. But I wonder what type of market there will be for him–he is not the Angels type of player, the Mets are tightwads, the Dodgers might have LF locked up…I guess other teams can emerge.

        • tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Oakland, however, isn’t asking Holliday to deliver offensive production worthy of a mammoth 15M-20M AAV contract value over 7-10 years. They’re just asking him to outhit rookie Carlos Gonzalez for one year, and then provide them with two draft picks after he departs.

          Oakland’s bar of expectations is much lower, so their willingness to deal for Holliday (non-Coors-effect-unknown) is not validation that Holliday is a good enough hitter outside of Coors Field to be worthy of a fat multi-year deal.

          • MattG

            I don’t agree with that analysis. Carlos Gonzalez is under control for five years, and Huston Street for 2. Holiday and those two picks need to equal the value of those seven years of service time. That is probably easily in the $15-20M range.

            • tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              No, what I’m saying is, Oakland traded for Holliday expecting only to get an upgrade over Carlos Gonzalez (the man Holliday is replacing in the outfield and everyday lineup) sizeable enough to allow them to compete for the title for 2009. Gonzalez is a valuable prospect but one they expect to recoup using one of the two picks they acquire when Holliday departs; Street is a closer and thus (as Oakland views them) perennially expendable and is someone they were looking to use only to land something else of greater value before he hits the market and prices himself above his actual utility level.

              Oakland approached the Holliday trade from a totally different viewpoint than all the teams who would potentially sign Holliday to a large, free agent, multi-year contract would. Oakland merely needs Holliday to be good enough for one year to provide them solid, non-rookie-like production to improve their chances for 2009. The net long-term effect to their team is nil (as everything they gave away to get him will either be replaced or was unnecessary) and, thus, their exposure to risk is negligible. So, they can afford to gamble with the risk that he’s just a Coors Field mirage to a much larger extent than a team signing him to a large multi-year contract can, because they’re not wedding themselves to him for a potential Barry-Zitoian contract. They’re just renting him for free, all things considered.

    • Sweet Dick Willie

      That money coming off the books is in trust for Matt Holiday.

      I disagree. With three long-term contracts (A-Rod, CC & Tex) already on the books, I don’t think there is any way Cash adds another.

      Although if the economy keeps tanking, he may be able to get him for 3/$30!

      • MattG

        I agree with you here. Let’s say Cashman probably will be interested in adding Holiday in the right deal, perhaps as long as five years.

        Holiday is already just an adequate fielder. It is not hard to imagine his defense weighing on his value once his is 32/33 years old.

        But, if Bay reups in Boston, that pretty much opens a lane for the Yankees to get Holiday for something they are comfortable with.

  • tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

    1.) Manny ends up signing a one-year deal with the Giants and is a model citizen in 2009.
    2.) The Dodgers sign Dunn to a two year deal.
    3.) Crawford and Bay re-up with their current teams midseason.
    4.) Holliday, as expected, hits the market with Manny again as the co-prizes of free agency.
    5.) The Cardinals, with Rasmus knocking on the door, let Rick Ankiel walk, making him option #3.

    Holliday signs with the Angels
    Manny signs with the Mets (remember that they’ll be shedding Delgado’s salary)
    Ankiel signs with the Yankees (and plays in LF/RF -don’t forget that he’s a lefty and we need those)
    The Red Sox are left out in the cold again…

    • A.D.

      Wouldn’t re-upping Bay basically be the Sox decision to not go after FA?

    • Matt

      Honestly, I’m not sure how thrilled with Rick Ankiel I’d be.

      • tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        If you’re not expecting him to be Matt Holliday but merely to be a solidly above average corner outfielder for, say, 3-4 years (being paid solidly above average money), I think we’ll be pleased.

    • Sweet Dick Willie

      Why can’t we get Manny and let the Mutts have Ankiel?

      • tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Because I can totally see the Mets going in hard after Manny and overpaying by a year to do it. That’s how they get players; they overpay with that extra year.

        If Manny has another great year with no incidents and no signs of slippage (and is one year further divorced from BorasGate), and Omar has an extra 30M of money to play with from the expiring Wagner/Delgado/Schneider contracts (plus the inevitable 3rd or 4th place finish with that horrid Mets roster), tell me you can’t see Omar dropping some ridiculous 3yr/80M offer in Manny’s lap. It practically writes itself.

    • Bo

      Because predicting 2 yrs down the line ALWAYS works out. Thank Gid we are all in for Rick Ankiel. Break out the champagne.

      • tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        It’s just an educated guess. Don’t get your panties in a bunch.

    • jsbrendog

      don’t forget that he’s a lefty and we need those)

      remember whe thats all we had and we needed a righty?

      why is balance so hard to attain ha

    • Reggie C.

      Would Rick Ankiel be a Type -A free agent or is he unrestricted?

      • steve (different one)

        i’ll tell you in one year.

  • Andy

    You’re selling low on Matsui right now with your stats. Matsui’s SLG was the lowest of his career, and .064 less than the year before. In fact, starting in his second year with the Yanks, his SLG was .522, .496, .494, .488. Given that his injury troubles have hopefully been addressed, I optimistically expect a line somewhere around his career line, perhaps even as good as .300/.375/.500. That’s not Manny, but that is plenty good in that lineup – and Matsui is a significantly better clubhouse guy than the clownshow that is Manny. We already have ARod, let’s pass on the drama…

    • My Geass Makes You My Slave

      Agreed. We won’t need Manny unless if Cano and Jeter don’t rebound plus Matsui and Posada getting injured again. I find that unlikely but what the hell did we get Teix for? He’ll help take pressure off A-Rod so no one is now is putting all the pressure on him to hit those homers that we all so love. I predict another 2007 season for A-Rod. Eventhough we lost Giambi and Abreu, we still have plenty bats to fill their holes. Manny’s a luxary, it’ll be great to have him but is it necessary?

  • zs190

    Eh, Manny was a butcher in Fenway for 2005-2007 but last year he was actually only -4.8 in the field according to Fangraphs, is it totally a stretch to consider him as the LF instead of all of you pencilling him in as only a DH? And rather than eat 6.5 million to trade Matsui, what about trading Nady for some prospects and save 6.5 million and have an OF of Manny/Damon/Swisher? That’s not 41.5 million anymore, is it? Sure it weakens the OF defense some replacing Damon in LF with Manny and replace BG/Melky with Damon, but the offensive upgrade is huge and should outweigh the defensive loss.

    Just a thought.

    • Bo

      His defense was so bad that they won 2 titles and made the playoffs pretty much every season. His defense really cost them all the way around.

      Since when has a Gold Glove LF won teams titles?

      How great was Pat B last yr? Manny yr before? You do remember that was the position the Yankees tried every yr to fill during the dynasty.

      I think we’d survive his defense with his bat.

      • jsbrendog

        ricky ledee, chad curtis, luis polonia, tim raines, ruben rivera, juan rivera. daryl strawbery etc etc etc

    • steve (different one)



      • Bo

        Why can’t Manny DH?

        Even if he plays LF what’s the big deal? They’d def replacement him in late innings with leads anyway.

        No matter what we got out in the OF we aren’t talking Gold Gloves. Wouldn’t you rather have the best hitter in the game who would be extremely motivated to crap on Boston and prove hes the best?

        • Should be working

          Good chance Posada will be filling that DH spot.

          • Should be working

            Hopefully not tho.

        • A.D.

          The late inning defensive replacement argument is the same as arguing that runs scored in late innings are more valuable than those scored in the first.

          I agree that putting in late inning defensive replacements make sense, but you can’t dismiss Mannys defense by that, when he will be playing the bulk of the innings out there.

      • zs190

        You would probably get a +40 OPS+ upgrade in 2 OF spots in this configuration, though, at a cost of about 30 run loss from weaker defense possibly. With a rotation that’s much better at striking people out than before, is it worth the trade? I don’t know and don’t pretend to know, just thinking aloud.

        This would probably never happen anyways, it’s just that much easier and less messy to stand pat.

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  • The Big Boss Man

    “Manny hit .332/.430/.601 with a combined 164 OPS+ in 153 games. He was by and large the best offensive player in the game last year.”

    Manny was great. But he wasn’t the best. Pujols hit .357/.462/.653, which was good enough for an OPS+ of 190.

  • adeel

    Doesn’t boras or Colletti or SOMEONE close to Manny want to put up a production of no-no-nanette (?sp)… please, please!

    C’mon Boras/dodgers; deal to the yankees, and go fund your play. please!

    (I just had a dream that Manny signed with the yankees for 2 year at 60mil) Geez I know that is sad; I don’t care though.

    All I want to do is live long enough to be wheeled to opening day in the year 2094 and say to my great grandkids “You know, Last year was the yankees 50th title, but it’s been 86 years since Boston won anything.”

    • Whitey14

      yeeaaahhhh, good luck with that….

  • Joey H

    I wouldn’t consider Damon so Unlikely to return unless Gardner really steps it up. I can see a 2 year deal for Damon.

  • Bob Ruffolo

    I’ll be following Manny closely this year, if he plays. He’s up there in age now, how long can Manny continue to be Manny?

  • barry

    I’d take Manny over Tex any day. Deal with it haters.

  • NYYanksCaptain23

    “He was by and large the best offensive player in the game last year.”

    Albert Pujols?
    Plus, that’s mostly due to his NL West dominance. His AL East numbers were replaceable.

    Anyway, the only problem is that Manny is still a pain, and committing to a full-time DH with the Posada and Jeter issues to deal with doesn’t sound like a great idea.

  • Mike S.

    No Manny. Period. No. Haven’t the Yanks had enough head cases over the past several years?