Mar
04

Manny’s long national nightmare almost over

By

Somehow, someway, in a bad economy with no other potential suitors, Scott Boras is going to get Manny Ramirez his millions. According to numerous reports — rounded up by MLBTR — Manny and the Dodgers are soon going to agree to a two-year, $45-million deal. Included in this deal with be a one-year opt-out that Manny can exploit if he and Boras feel his 2009 performance and the 2009-2010 market warrant it. That the Dodgers would do this deal at this price point with an opt-out is a bit mind-boggling. Meanwhile, the Yanks have some outfield holes to fill next year, and either Matt Holliday or Manny Ramirez could wind up the beneficiary of some Bronx bucks. I’m sure the thought has occurred to Mr. Boras already.

Categories : Asides, Hot Stove League
  • WhizzoTheWize

    So on March 4th we’re where we were on November 5th.

    Most. Boring. Negotiation. Ever.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Tim Wakefield says hello.

  • Expired Milk

    I doubt the Yankees FO would be eager to hand out another big contract to a FA.Manny for one year makes alot of sense since we the contracts of Nady, Damon Matusi all come off.

  • Januz

    To be honest, I do not see Holliday or Manny in the Bronx next year. I think the economy is going to be a prime reasonfor this.

    • Chris

      I don’t think the economy will play a factor at all. The Yankees are in the best position to weather a significant economic downturn. The teams that are going to get killed are the mid-market teams (Cleveland, Milwaukee, etc). If no one else can bid up their prices, the Yankees could potentially get big name free agents cheaper than expected.

      That being said, I don’t see Manny or Holliday in the Bronx next year either.

      • Mike Pop

        I want Manny, not Holliday. But I will take Halladay at the trade deadline!

        • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

          I’d prefer to keep our minor league system and not give it to a division opponent.

          • Mike Pop

            Na, I would give Joba and Ajax up in a heartbeat for him. Just think of the dominance.

            • Jay CT

              I don’t know that I would do Joba unless we could extend Halladay, but I would think long and hard about it. He is an absolute beast. I wouldn’t not make a deal just because its a divison opponent. more often then not, the prospects we all know and love turn out to be average at best.

  • Mike Pop
  • http://evilempire20.com/ Ryan S.

    I’ll wait until I see Manny perform this season before I rally for him in 2010. If he has another beastly year, he’d make an amazing DH, which would be a conveniently unfilled spot on our roster. I’ll take a couple more years of Damon over Manny if its the left field spot we’re talking about though.

    • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

      If Manny has another great year and Damon doesn’t fall off the face of the earth offensively and defensively, they’ll both be in the Bronx in 2010.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        But where do they both play? We’re not sliding Damon back into CF, I think the toothpaste is permanently out of the tube on that one, and Swisher probably performs well enough to be the everyday RF, so that only leaves LF and DH.

        And the DH could very well be Posada.

        The only way I see us being able to sign Manny AND Damon together is if Posada looks to be 100% healthy in October and we know he’s good to catch 120 games in 2010, AND if Damon is willing to go year-to-year. With those two caveats, I’d give Manny 2/50 and Damon 1/13.

        1-LF Damon (L)
        2-SS Jeter (R)
        3-1B Tex (S)
        4-3B ARod (R)
        5-DH Manny (R)
        6-C Posada (S)
        7-2B Cano (L)
        8-RF Swisher (S)
        9-CF GardbrerJax (?)

        • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

          Yeah, I didn’t think about the Posada health issue. Otherwise, I think what I said is more than feasible. Damon’s probably not going to get a lot of other offers so I think he’d take a year-to-year deal with the Yankees. I might give Manny 2/48 instead of 2/50, but we’re really splitting hairs at that point.

          And, just for the record, Swisher will perform well enough to get the starting RF job by like…mid-April of this year :)

          I think Jax Gardbrera would be better, since it’s kinda like a full name. Or Jax Cabretta, if you please.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            I might give Manny 2/48 instead of 2/50, but we’re really splitting hairs at that point.

            Let’s give him 2/49. If he asks for 2/50 instead, we tell him to SOD OFF!

        • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

          9-CF GardbrerJax (?)

          You mean Cabrettason?

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Jaxbrerdner.

  • Mike Pop

    I am really glad he has an opt-out clause. Make next offseason more fun and maybe the Yankees will be in on him to be the DH with all the money coming off the books. You know Boras is thinking about that possibillity as Ben stated. That would make me jizz in my…

    • Jay CT

      Sometimes, it is ok if we do not know exactly how one reacts to a signing. There is no shame in keeping some things private Mike…

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

    ” Included in this deal with be a one-year opt-out that Manny can exploit if he and Boras feel his 2009 performance and the 2009-2010 market warrant it.”

    Unpunished illegal tampering by Hank FTW!!!

  • A.D.

    Basically all that for an opt out clause. Fueled because Manny has shown to stop playing hard when hes mildly unhappy about his contract the Dodgers didn’t want to sign him for what he should be in this market for fear they get a useless Manny.

    • mustang

      Just be happy that we can finally stop talking about him coming to the Yankees at least for the rest of the season.
      Oh Happy Day !!!!!

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

    I’m sure the thought has occurred to Mr. Boras already.

    Situations like that always intrigue me, when Boras has multiple guys all vying for the same dollars, like the Tex and Manny situation this year: Boras got the Yanks to pay Tex, even though it severely limited Manny’s ability to get the deal he wanted.

    Next year, we’ll have a mammoth opening in LF, and Manny would be interested in that, but so would Holliday (a Boras client), Rick Ankiel (a Boras client), and good ol’ Xavier Nady (a Boras client). Meaning Nady, the Yankee, has virtually no chance to re-up with his own team, in no small part due to the efforts of his own agent looking to put a different one of his own clients into that high-rent district.

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see Nady request a trade openly midseason.

    • A.D.

      Maybe he’s looking for some 2 for 1 special.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Usually you pay double for that kind of action, Cotton.

        • Jack

          Pepper needs new shorts.

    • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

      Let’s hope he hits like he did in the first half last year before requesting said trade. Maybe we could get another bullpen arm and a young OF for him?

    • pat

      If the xman has a good year the Yankees are going to decide wether or not he plays left next year not wiley ole scotty B. If he has a subpar season he’s got no more right to the position than somebody who’s more worthy. Say we’re comfortably in first place by the trade deadline you think nady’s gonna sacrifice a good chance at a ring to play somewhere else to up his FA value? I dunno man, that seems a bit shaky.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        No, I’m not saying that we wouldn’t be controlling the negotiations, of course we would.

        I just think Nady’s put in a tough position where his agent isn’t going 100% to get him those Yankee dollars, because his agent is pushing someone else for those Yankee dollars. It’s probably a moot point, but it gives you pause.

        Boras represents so, so many players that sometimes it skirts the lines of conflict of interest.

        • pat

          This is very true a conflic of interest indeed it is. I’d like to think though, that Cashman isn’t one of those a-hole, bjobbin gm’s who is swayed by the court of public opinion or a 150 page full color binder extoling the virtues of Player X. In the end the Yanks usually get their man, the guy they feel is best for the job.

        • A.D.

          Well its an interesting scenario where very few teams have the money to pay Manny and Holliday dollars, while many more could pay Nady & Ankiel dollars.

          In Boras perfect world he gets Manny & Holliday signed with the very large market teams with plenty of money, and then Nady and Ankiel to whomever is left after that. However Nady & Ankiel might want to be playing for the only teams that can pay Manny & Holliday top dollar.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            True.

            Moreover, as this winter illustrated, in an economic downturn, after the big money guys get their big money contracts from the big money teams, the second tier guys may not really have anybody left willing to give them ANYTHING. So, after Manny and Holliday get their deals (Yankees and Red Sox?), Ankiel and Nady may end up grasping at straws and taking below market Abreu or Burrell deals…

            • Ed

              Burrell and Abreu signed lower than expected deals because they were less than ideal players in a market where the supply was greater than the demand.

              Supply and demand is what drives prices. Even if the economy didn’t tank, there still would have been more outfielders available than teams that could justify spending a lot of money on an outfielder, which means their salaries would have still gone down.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                … and in the winter of 2010, Nady and Ankiel look to be “less than ideal players in a market where the supply was greater than the demand.”

                First Tier
                Holliday, Manny, Carl Crawford (if his option isn’t picked up)

                Second Tier
                Ankiel, Nady, Damon, Magglio Ordonez (Tigers may salary dump), Vlad Guerrero, Jermaine Dye, Jason Bay (if he’s not extended first)

                More Options
                Matsui, Randy Winn, Gary Sheffield, Marlon Byrd, Brian Giles, Andruw Jones

                The first rule of corner outfielders is: There’s always lots of corner outfielders.
                The second rule of corner outfielders is: There’s always lots of corner outfielders.

              • Jay CT

                Do you think that perhaps more players accept arbitration, and that playing into this?

                • Ed

                  Do you think that perhaps more players accept arbitration, and that playing into this?

                  Players that make you say “How could he possibly be a type A ?” probably will accept. In particular, Type A relievers that aren’t closers probably will accept.

                  Teams are probably going to be much less willing to offer arbitration though.

  • Januz

    Manny’s situation, is just one example of what the future will look like. Most teams simply cannot afford, to spend that particular amount of money anymore. One thing I think you will see is contracts for amateurs start to come down. The teams like San Diego who spent millions on International Free Agents, and Pittsburgh and Kansas City who did the same in the draft, will not be doing it this year. This is where teams like the Yankees, Red Sox & Angels can really flex their muscles, and be able to enhance farm systems, that will make these teams good for years to come. It will start with Boras clients, High School Seniors, and Draft Eligible Sophomores dropping like rocks in the draft, and spread to the IFA’s.
    If they Yankees play it right (And keep spending money (Contracts AND scouting) and cultivating relationships (See Brett Marshall and Garrison Lassiter as examples of this)). They have a real possibility of having drafts like 2006 & 2007, for the next three to five years. By doing this, they increase the odds of having more “Home grown” stars that are more cost efficient, and will bring the payroll down, while at the same time, be Championship caliber.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Or, small-market teams with limited revenue streams could decide instead to double-down on the draft (rather than abandon it) and continue paying large bonuses for top-flight talent and stop signing pricey veteran free agents.

      Because in an economic pinch, I can see the Nationals saying it’s still worth it to draft Stephen Strasburg if he asks for a 6M bonus (even though we only budgeted 3M for him), because that 3M premium that we can’t really afford is still smaller than the 10-15M we’d be paying for some other big league vet over the first 6 cost-controlled years of Strasburg’s career.

      The bad economy could cause small-market teams to pennypinch on draft bonuses for high-end talent, or it could cause them to pay MORE for high-end talent and rush that talent to the majors. Draft Strasburg in June ’09, pay him a big bonus, and then hand him a spot on the opening day roster in 2010, making 400k each of the next three years (instead of drafting a cheaper amateur of lesser talent and signing a ML stopgap like a Brett Tomko or Odalis Perez and paying him 2M per year.)

      It will be interesting to see what happens this June, that’s for sure.

      • pat

        There will be about a 1 or 2 year window where small market teams could affod to scoop up above slot or high demand guys. After that the market will adjust and the guy who used to cost 3 mil is gonna ask for 5 or 6, pricing himself out of the small market range and back into the deep end where we feed. Bwahahah capitalism pwnage.

  • Bo

    They should have got a head start on it and signed him this year.

    Imagine the ratings for the 19 games vs Boston this yr. He’d practically pay for himself.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Doing so would have required us basically burning Hideki Matsui’s contract whole. And since we added Tex, Manny became a luxury rather than a necessity.

      13M is a lot of money to swallow. We like to pretend like it’s not sometimes, but it is.

  • Bryan

    I still cant believe that he got that kind of money, in this economy he is probably worth half that amount. What I really don’t understand is why the Dodgers did not wait longer for Boras’s demands to go down. Who really has even 20mm a year to spend on one player, not to mention 45mm? I know that the Giants were looking at him, but they have too many bloated contracts as it is. While they would appreciate the offense I dont believe that they would have gone near Manny for even half of what he got. It seemed that the Dodgers were negotiating against themselves, they were the only team genuinely interested in signing him why didn’t they just wait, or why did they just sign Bobby Abreu? Its a bit ridiculous.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      I still cant believe that he got that kind of money, in this economy he is probably worth half that amount.

      No, that’s wrong. In this economy, the middle-level and lower-level guys have their value decreased, but the top-level guys don’t. There’s different levels of price elasticity in play here.

      There’s basically a tiny handful of guys who can produce at Manny’s level, so his scarcity means that he’s less affected by market peaks and valleys. You still have to overpay to get him in the midst of a recession.

      You don’t have to overpay to get someone on Orlando Hudson’s caliber, so his value is halved, yes. But Manny’s value hasn’t declined a cent.

      • Ed

        No, that’s wrong. In this economy, the middle-level and lower-level guys have their value decreased, but the top-level guys don’t. There’s different levels of price elasticity in play here.

        If the economy was the issue, salaries would go down across the board. Raising salaries at the high end and lowering salaries at the low end would be like trading in your Toyota for a Hummer and hoping to make up the difference by buying the store brand products at the supermarket.

        If some groups have their salaries effected and others don’t, it’s a supply and demand issue. That’s what happens with an abnormally talented free agent class.

        • A.D.

          No price elasticity is exactly what happened to these players, people will still pay for premium goods, but avg to above avg good they’re less willing to pay then when things were great and they were raking in cash.

          Overtime salaries could deflate in baseball, only time will tell.

          Your analogy doesn’t make sense, what it should be is that the rich still have money to pay for the high end luxury goods, but there are less rich than before, and the middle class can no longer buy the luxury goods, nor the above avg goods so the price for these must come down, or they will buy the “store brand”.

          • Ed

            Your analogy doesn’t make sense, what it should be is that the rich still have money to pay for the high end luxury goods, but there are less rich than before, and the middle class can no longer buy the luxury goods, nor the above avg goods so the price for these must come down, or they will buy the “store brand”.

            But your analog just doesn’t fit.

            The middle class teams still bid competitively on the top items. They didn’t really bid at all on the 2nd tier talent, even after the prices came down.

            For most teams, Bobby Abreu at $5m still isn’t appealing if he’s just going to be your 4th outfielder.

    • steve (different one)

      It seemed that the Dodgers were negotiating against themselves, they were the only team genuinely interested in signing him why didn’t they just wait, or why did they just sign Bobby Abreu? Its a bit ridiculous.

      well, one reason is that Bobby Abreu is not nearly as good as Manny Ramirez.

      Manny makes them the divisional favorites again. Abreu doesn’t.

      • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

        What I don’t get in this Manny/Abreu discussion is why didn’t the Angels go for Manny? I know Abreu’s a good bat for them but if they added Manny, they’d take the division from the A’s with ease.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          I’ve been wondering that all winter.

          Thankfully for us, the Angels did the dumb thing (sign Abreu on the cheap) rather than the smart thing (sign Manny for the big bucks).

          • steve (different one)

            totally agree.

            so dumb what they did.

            they could have NOT signed Fuentes and Abreu and given that money to Manny.

            they needed Manny WAAAAAY more than they needed Fuentes.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Particularly since Shields and Arredondo can probably replicate whatever Fuentes gives you.

              Manny by himself on a 2/50 >>>>>>>> Fuentes on a 2/17.5, Abreu on a 1/8, and Juan Rivera on a 3/12.75

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

    Heh, looks like Manny and Boras took the deferred money deal after all.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3951246

    According to MLB.com, $25 million of the contract is deferred over five years and Ramirez has the right to opt out of the deal after one year. According to The Associated Press, Ramirez has full no-trade protection…
    Los Angeles announced last week that Ramirez declined its latest offer, a $25 million, one-year contract with a $20 million player option for 2010. That deal would have included deferred payments of $10 million each in 2011 and 2012 and $5 million in 2013.