No surgery for A-Rod
ByPeteAbe has the word: A-Rod has a torn labrum and a cyst in his hip, but will not undergo surgery, as was reported this morning. They’ve drained the cyst, and hope that rest will heal the tear. Anyone think the Yankees brass had anything to do with the decision to not have surgery?
Update by Ben (4:02 p.m.): PeteAbe has a little bit more info up right now. According to Brian Cashman, surgery would knock A-Rod out for four months. By pursuing the rest-and-rehab path, the Yanks are simply hoping A-Rod — like Chase Utley and Mike Lowell before him — can play through the pain. They have nothing to lose by delaying surgery. We could, however, argue that if surgery is inevitable, A-Rod’s return in July after four months off could energize the team. I think the Yanks just have too much riding on 2009 to risk it right now though. The team could change its mind before March is out.
so what does this mean??
hes just gonna rest for the next few weeks and hopefully be ready by opening day?? he gonna play with pain all season??
This was my basic issue from the earlier thread, i.e.:
In theory, if he doesn’t miss any time and he’s able to play through the pain, I guess this is good news. But exactly what does “rest and rehab” mean? Not that anyone has the answers. Is he going to be out for a decent amount of time even with the rest and rehab? In that case, wouldn’t a surgery that has been estimated at anywhere from 6-10 weeks be the better option?
There is something to be said for having the surgery and getting it fixed. Of course, if he’s able to be close to himself at full power for the season, play through the year and get the surgery, you know, right after the season instead of one month before the season starts, then that’s about the best we could hope for.
I don’t think anyone has the answer right now.
By just “draining” the cyst, are they just putting off surgery to remove it to a later date? Seems counterproductive, if he is going to sit out a while anyway.
Depends on where the cyst is. If it’s not deep in his hip, it could probably be drained easily. Many, many cysts are treated non-surgically, and this could have been the recommended treatment even if he didn’t have a labrum issue.
So the million question.Will he miss time or no?
million dollar question*
Will he miss any regular season games.
I’ll go with “yes”.
It’s a torn labrum. Whether it’s a big tear or a small tear, he probably needs more than a month’s rest. Let’s stick with the initial 10-week forecast of early-to-mid May.
Anyone think the Yankees brass had anything to do with the decision to not have surgery?
no idea. not a doctor.
I ask because the report early was surgery. Then the Yanks got involved, and now there’s no surgery. So was the first report false? Or did they change the decision after further consult?
You’re right, though. Tough to ascertain without being a doctor.
Don’t think you need to be a doctor to answer that question, he didn’t ask for a medical opinion or diagnosis.
the implication was that the yankees are overruling the advice of the doctors b/c they are paying A-Rod so much.
we don’t know the advice of the doctor.
the doctor could have told them it’s OK to put it off as long as if he is willing to play with pain, and Alex said “i’ll play with the pain”.
we don’t know.
Or the Yankees could have said “We’d like to protect our investment, Alex, you should have the surgery” and Alex said “I think I can play through it” and the doctor said “There’s little risk of him aggrivating it further, he’s good.”
There’s many, many scenarios where nobody is doing anything nefarious. I swear, some people have a “Jump to Conclusions Mat” and every single conclusion is “The Yankees fucked this up somehow.”
I’m sure they had SOMETHING to do with it. But I’d imagine the decision was ultimately still made by Alex and the doctors.
Why would the brass not want surgery if it was needed? Getting off to a good start is important but not as important as ensuring the long term health of your 9 year 200 million dollar investment.
Not that the situations are comparable, but in 07 the Yanks wanted Carl Pavano to rest & rehab instead of getting TJ surgery.
thats cause they expected SOMETHING out of the ol d bag
Yeah thats true abt Pavano but aside from the surgery/no surgery debate the circumstances are pretty different. When pavano elected to go under the knife his career as a yankee was effectively over. He missed 18 months or whatever it was, then his contract was up. Arod could potentially miss only a few months and we have him for exponentially longer. Basically i’m really hoping that the previous diagnosis was wrong and that R+R is really the answer. I don’t want our golden star child putting the rest of his career at risk for the sake of saving a month or two. I don’t think cash would do that either.
I feel like there are two possible explanations for the change in tone regarding the severity of Alex’s injury.
1) He does need surgery but Cash told him and his camp to STFU so they don’t destroy any and all leverage that they may have in trade talks.
or
2) Alex was convinced to play through it as he reported the ‘discomfort’ last season and was able to play through it and not feel enough pain/unpleasantness to render him ineffective.
Or
3) All the initial reports were a huge game of telephone where people leapt to conclusions with incomplete information and the whole thing was a traveshamockery of useless half-truths.
I can see him needing the surgery early/midseason uh oh… hopefully this goes well.
Pete Abe is saying if he ends up needing the surgery, he’ll be out 4 months.
I’m getting awfully tired of the Yankee organization. Cashman’s okay, but even he makes a lot of mistakes. The meddling from above is just so much worse. When the Yankees signed this contract, the first thought that came to my mind was “This could pretty easily be the worst contract in sports ever,” and unfortunately those fears are starting to be realized.
My dad, who’s a life-long Yankee fan, told me a few weeks ago how he’s thinking of jumping ship because he can’t stand the way the organization operates, and would like a team with more intelligent management.
I’m not there yet, but they are certainly trying my faith.
Happy trails.
to you. Before we meet again (bring Pops with you)…
Yeah, have fun. We’ll enjoy all our World Series trophies without you. Don’t write.
Dont let the door hit ya on the way out
It is rough rooting for the winningest franchise in the history of the sport.
does that mean you’ll stop posting?
lol. lethal.
You do realize that there aren’t any management teams that do a significantly better job than the Yankees. Every team makes mistakes and bad deals. Every team has meddling ownership. Every team misses the playoffs periodically. If you don’t want to deal with these things, then you should stop following sports.
I agree with The Congressman. If you wanna leave it all behind and go join up with Red Sox Nation or some other bandwagon group, you never bled pinstripes to begin with.
You guys really know how to read an entire post. Go team!
If you decide you don’t like the way the Yankees are run and wish to root for another team, more power to you. That would make you a fair-weather fan. Happy trails. Better?
#1: Read. I never said I would leave.
#2: To defend my dad, a fairweather fan is someone who goes based on wins and losses. The Yankees win more than anybody else, and he and I both think they are the easy favorites to win the AL East this year. When you’re disgusted by how the organization is run, that is another matter altogether.
Please name some organizations that you think operate more intelligently that the Yankees.
#1: Oh thanks, I didn’t read your comment earlier. I just read it.
#2: Well, that’s your definition of a fair-weather fan. If you wake up one day and decide you don’t like the way your favorite team is run, so you change allegiances, I’d call you a fair-weather fan. The way I see it… A lot of people root for teams that either suck or are run poorly. There’s a reason some people are called “long-suffering” fans. You don’t just jump ship because you don’t like the GM or owner or because your team loses consistently. If you do, you’re a fair-weather fan. So, we just disagree on that one.
I just have no patience for the whole “If they do/don’t do this, I MIGHT JUST LEAVE FOREVER AND STOP ROOTING FOR THIS TEAM!!!!” nonsense.
Good riddance. More seats at the ballpark for me.
Yup. It’s just weak. You don’t switch allegiances, it doesn’t matter if you’re happy with something the team does or not.
You’re complaining about how a team that’s made the playoffs 12 out of the last 13 years, with 4 titles and 6 WS appearances, does not operate well and does not have “intelligent management,” all the while saying you’re growing tired of the organization and they’re “certainly trying your faith.” And we’re supposed to give you the benefit of the doubt?
Get the surgery now. Then they get him back in mid July (like Ben said) and its like they made a huge trade for a big bat. Their pitching and other bats are good enough to survive a couple of months without him.
That’s wishful thinking. Out four months he is not going to come back sharp. At best you get two months of production out of him meanwhile the Yankees are trying to make do for for more than half the season by having Ransom get 300 ABs.
Utley played with this. ARod can play with it. He gets surgery in November (hopefully it won’t be October) and then comes back for the start of next season without missing significant time.
Utley played with it and was almost useless the 2nd half of the season. He got hurt mid year and his numbers fell off a cliff.
Actually, he had an OPS of about .855, so I’m not sure how that classifies as falling off a cliff…but then again, I just took a look at his #s at the second half of the year. Could be different depending on when he was hurt.
Utley’s Career Line: .298/.375/.526
Utley’s line in 2008: .292/.380/.535
Utley through June 3: .325/.408/.684
Utley in the 1st half: .291/.372/.582
Utley in the 2nd half: .292/.390/.465
It’s not that he became useless in the second half, it just seemed that way. There is no way that he was going to maintain his hot start. It does appear that he lost a little power in the second half, but not more than could easily be explained by normal variation.
Utley’s first half: .291/.372/.582
Utley’s second half: .292/.390/.465
Yeah, he was totally worthless, raising his OBP 20 points. His power fell of a bit but it was still a great mark, considering his position. June and July were the only “meh” months Utley had–and even those weren’t bad–so he was far from worthless.
He also put up a 20.3 UZR/150 and was a ridiculous +47 via the Fielding Bible.
Yeah, Utley sure “fell off a cliff.”
so now you’re telling us that arod can play with it, because utley did? come on, you can’t predict how bad this is. we simply don’t know. arod’s version of this injury has got to be different that utley’s — we’re talking about a muscle tear here. hugely variable from one person to another.
Cashman already admitted that surgery will be needed eventually. I’d rather he get it now and be healthy for the stretch run and playoffs. The other option is he’s 75% of what he normally is…or worse he has to shut it down mid year and he’s out for the stretch run. Utley and Lowell played through the same injury last year and neither did themselves any favors.
75% of Arod is far better than 100% of Ransom.
Are we sure it’s 75% and not 90%? or 95%? or 40%?
No, we’re not. I was picking what I hoped was a realistic number. But like you said, I could have been over or under estimating. I do know this, a baseball player needs his hips. They twist in almost everything they do.
I’m hoping that the people who made this decision have better information (I guess I know they do, I just wonder if they’re using it correctly). If he’s going to be playing at 50%, I assume they would have him get the surgery. If he’ll be at 90%, then why not let him play?
I would guess that the fact they want to rehab it is a good sign and also that the fact that Cashman wouldnt specify the degree of the tear as a potentially very bad sign.
So they’re hoping he can play the season and have surgery afterwards if still needed? Well, let’s cross our fingers and hope it works out, but I don’t think that’s very smart. But losing Alex for half of the regular season – OUCH, not much better.
Lets just hope cause hes such a genetic freak that he heals like it was never there.
Let’s get him some steroids and HGH.
so… how long is he out? Are they saying he’s gonna be here for Opening Day or what…
Yea, there is no fucken way that they would “make” him play and risk the remaining 8 years and hundreds of millions of dollars, if it was stupid too be done. I dont know if it was torn last year, but this spring he has been playing through it with mild discomfort. If he cant make it worse by playing, then you might as well wait until next offseason.
Have the surgery.
I’m no doctor, but i think it would be best to have the surgery now rather than wait till the season is over,
To me you are running the risk having the pain become unbearable in mid-season and then being forced to have the surgery and miss the rest of the season. Then what would we do?
A-Rod is going to be here for a few more years and is a huge invest. Playing through injuries like this could lead to other injuries. Get the surgery. See you in July. Win a World Series while riding the fresh bat of A-Rod.
if he dopes get surgery mid season and misses the rest of the season and the yankees win the world series without him you wont be able to pickup a pape or turn on the tv for about 15 years.
This is why you dont give 10 year contracts to 32 year olds. He went from never missing a game to having two legit and non-freak injuries in less than 12 months.
Why do you think Hank Steinbrenner is no longer involved with the team?
Amen
Call me back when he’s got a degenerative hip condition. He’s going to miss a couple of months. It’s not Stephen Colbert’s Doom Bunker here.
It’s August, 2009.
-A-Rod has a degenerative hip
-Tex is really a Yeerk from the “Animorphs” book series
-Sabathia has eaten his weight in trans-fat
-Burnett throws a curveball and his arm falls off
-IPK is a bust
Then what happens?!
The Earth collides with Newonten, a new planet that has formed because of steroid use.
I think this is the wrong decision. We need him now & the future. He has a problem & surgery will fix it. You might as well have the surgery now so that he can get back by the all star break & be strong for the rest of the year.
I am afraid that he will not be 100% & may not be as productive that he could be. Also it may work out that the surgery may be inevitable & if he has it 2 months from now – then we lose him for the year. I hope he has the surgery & gets it over with.
Last yr they delayed having surgery on Posada & i felt that was also a mistake. Lets get the surgery out of the way & get the rehab clock ticking
A torn hip labrum is treated with surgery, albeit arthroscopic. This is a common injury for athletes due to the rotation required in the hips, especially for baseball. The other issue is the hip is weight bearing, which requires he remain on crutches for awhile after the surgery. My guess is rest may help short term, but surgery will be needed at some point.
Simple solution: a steady dose of steroids and HGH to expedite the healing.
Looks like there’s two possible scenarios here:
1) Alex gives it a go, puts up his usual numbers, then the pain becomes unbearable and he has to shut it down after the AS break;
2) He has surgery now, is out 4 months (Pete Abe’s estimate – for whatever that’s worth), comes back and puts up his usual #’s (including the post season).
I dunno, seems like a wash to me.
I think we need him more in the 2nd half – so I think your 2nd option is the best
those scenarios are a wash to you?
#2 is clearly better. if only it was such a simple decision.
So these are the only two scenarios? Not he plays the entire year in pain, albeit in a diminished capacity? Everybody is assuming if he doesn’t get the surgery now he will have to get it before the season ends.
Let’s assume scenario #1 happens. The Yankees would be in a far better position to trade for a third bagger as the trade deadline approaches then they are now.
I rather have arod in the 2nd half at 100% than all yr at 50%
At 50% he will not be the arod we know & some of us love
I have confidence that our pitching can carry us for the 1st half & we do have a strong enough lineup to carry us.
Seriously though why the fukk did his brother tell reporters he needs surgery. That hurts Cashman in trade talks.
I do agree with everyones sentiments that he should have surgery and come back 100% in midseason.They need to think long term with him since he signed that ridiculous contract. The Yankees have enough one of the best pitching staffs in a long time.They can weather the storm until he gets better.
My question is how could the Yankees never address this ailment, soreness or however else you want to call it if what Girardi says is true and they were aware of this since last season? At the very least, with a 300M investment, steroids or no steroids, you would think the Yanks would at the very least, have required A-Rod be examined in the off season. I could understand if this revelation just came about, but not if A-Rod expressed discomfort last season as Girardi says. It seems the Yanks and their crack medical staff dropped the ball here.
Utterly ridiculous that this wasn’t handled in October.
We dont know that the labrum tear was there last year. This could be a spring training injury.
He had hip pain last yr. The king of keeping mouth shut girardi said so
Yes, but that could have been from the cyst. I’m not saying you’re wrong…just saying it’s not an open and shut case.
Yes, he had hip pain last year, but we still don’t know the labrum tear was there last year. It could STILL have been a spring training injury.
Correlation is not causality.
true but it would not have hurt to get a mri in Novemeber
On that, you have a point.
Perhaps the Yankees should start having their aging vets (under contract) have preliminary injury screenings after the conclusion of every season. Just say, “Hey, Alex, you mentioned your hip was barking a little in September there, let’s have that thing looked at thoroughly to get a jump on starting next season healthy.”
I’m sure the Players Union wouldn’t be pleased with that, though…
He has hip pain now. He had it last yr.
Don’t ya think the two are at least somewhat related?
Dont ya think they should have tested this the day the season ended?
He doesnt have pain. He has “stiffness”. Big difference. May it turn into pain? I have no idea. But Cashman said himself that A-Rod currently has no pain.
how do you know he didn’t just aggravate it or rip it open much more this spring? how can you second guess if you don’t know the medical history?
100% correct!
-Scott
So he’s not going under the knife? DAMN! I was all geared up to unveil my new super-clever nickname for him:
Flay-Rod.
Oh, you may still be able to use it. The chance remains that Cash is painting a rosy picture regarding the severity of the injury while he trolls the trade market.
I wouldn’t be surprised if a deal gets done for a stopgap and Flay-Rod becomes a reality.
Cheer up Tommie.
SO YOU’RE SAYING THERE’S A CHANCE!!!!!!
There’s ALWAYS a chance. If you just keep hopin’ and prayin’ maybe someday all of your dreams will come true.
(just not the one’s that involve roofies and dolphins, because that would just be wrong)
That’s not my dream, that’s Pat.
My apologies for ascribing the degenerate visions of someone else to you.
This was probablly already one of the most compelling offseasons in Yankee history, Im not going to claim something ridiculous like top 5 or something like that as it may well not be but it just keeps getting more and more crazy.
We need less crazy and more boring. Only a few more weeks and we get “the book”.
Run don’t walk to the liquor store.
I’m eagerly anticipating a spring training brawl against the Sox or Rays. Hopefully Shelley Duncan can bodyslam Jed Lowrie.
You heard it here first.
I was thinking he could jump on Pedoria Mario style since Pedroia is a koopa-troopa after all.
I wish, but Pedroia isn’t in Sox camp, he’s at the WBC.
Playing for the Irish Leprechaun team, I believe.
Dude, Shelley can just get use a warp-zone to get to the WBC.
I like you, Matt, you plan ahead.
UNLIKE FLAY-ROD AND TEH STUPID YANKEES!!!!!!1!!11!!!eleventy!!!!!
I try, Tommie; I try.
Or, if you’re a bigger man of Super Mario 3 than the original, he can use the Magic Flute!
I bet Boras told him not to get the surgery at the end of last season because he was opting out of his deal.
I think that you are confusing things a little there pardner. The opt-out was after the ‘07 season, not ‘08.
I do enjoy the ‘Boras is the root of all evil’ mantra that people love to throw around.
Extra points for creativity!
Jeez, time does fly.. my mistake
My bad for the sarcasm. I thought you were just being a jackass.
He opted out in 07. Theory destroyed
Check your facts. He already had his deal.
Does this team not remember what happened with Posada and Matsui last season?
I’m not saying it’ll be the same thing, but still..
Chase Utley and Mike Lowell were able to play with similar injuries last year, so depending on the severity it can be done. Also consider Albert Pujols who had a bum elbow and still won the MVP – just imagine if he were healthy.
I got the feeling last year that neither Posada nor Matsui should really have tried to play through their injuries, but because of the timing of the injuries getting the surgery would have ended their seasons. Once that’s the case, it doesn’t do much harm to see if they can make it through and help the team some, even if the chances are very slim.
Also don’t forget that A-Rod has been crushing the ball this spring, so it really can’t be that bad.
Lowell could barely walk by September.
But Utley did survive and he plays a more physically demanding position.
injuries like this is why HGH needs to be legal
Agreed. Alex needs to visit one of those ‘Anti-aging’ clinics in Florida that are all the rage.
evander holyfield can recommend some good ones.
This sucks.
And it sucks even more that they couldnt have done this a week ago at best. Because we could have panicked and got Manny.
Had this happened a week ago, we still would not have signed Manny.
It is legal with a script.
Theory destroyed! lol
Well played…
I’m not sure if this was supposed to be tongue in cheek, but I agree. Wouldn’t it be better for the sport if injured players could get prescriptions from league approved doctors to take HGH? Baseball wants its stars on the field.
I’m down with that. Most of the stuff I read about on HgH says it can help with the healing process but doesn’t really enhance baseball-playing performance. HgH isn’t going to make you bulk up, it’s just going to tell the amino acids and peptides creating ligament and tendon tissue to work a little faster, right?
Not to seriously change the subject, but what are the chances that a lot of NBA stars are on HGH? There’s a significant advantage to being bigger, and there’s no test for it. If you could take a drug that made you 2″ taller, I’d think there would be basketball players lined up around the block.
I’m not sure how much HgH an NBA player would have to take, or for how long, or how early he’d have to start, in order to actually grow 2 inches in height, but my guess is going ot be a lot.
As in, a lethal amount. An amount that would cause cranial gigantism and turn him into a freak or something.
I’m not a doctor, I don’t know, but that’s just my guess.
Per the fount of all knowledge (aka Wikipedia):
“Idiopathic short stature (ISS) is one of the most controversial indications for GH as pediatric endocrinologists do not agree on its definition, diagnostic criteria, or limits.[9] The term has been applied to children with severe unexplained shortness that will result in an adult height below the 3rd percentile. … They were treated for about 4 years and gained 1.5 to 3 inches (3.8-7.6 cm) in adult height.”
I have no idea when you need to start, but it seems plausible that it could work…
Yeah, but again, that’s saying HgH will help a child likely to be abnormally short possibly grow to normal height. Not the same as saying HgH will help an adolescent or a grown person who’s of normal height (or abnormally tall) become taller.
HgH treatment is basically reserved for people with abnormally low levels of their own HgH, people who can’t grow or can’t create tissue. I don’t think it’s additive in the sense that no matter who you are, if you take it, you’ll become taller.
If so, Barry Bonds and Andy Pettite probably would have become taller in the past few years.
HGH should be over the counter. It makes one feel younger, stronger, and heal quicker.
Umm whats the downside?
Hadn’t A-rod roped something like 3 or 4 doubles in 3 games?? How much pain could he be in?
Someone just called the fan and called Tex, Tex-EE-era, pronouncing the x as a hard x. I can get messing up a youngster like Melancon, but Tex?
Dude… it’s THE FAN.
That’s all the explanation you need.
Quite.
I know, I just dont get why you would call a radio station to talk about a guy whose name you cant pronounce. I would hide that kind of info. Ahhh, the lowest common denominator, what can you say.
People come on here all the time and write “Andy Petite”. Somebody wrote “Mark Melchon” like 5 times the other day IN A POST ON MARK MELANCON where the post he had to read in order to type his comment had Melancon’s name spelled correctly dozens of times. He could have looked and double checked for himself, or even cut and pasted, but he didn’t.
People are morons.
on the people are morons, it is true. i work in technology and youre never the same after you hear the first person handle a conversation like this:
me: “what seems to be the problem?”
moron: “is says my password expired and I have to change it. What does that mean?”
me: “(pause) uh, it means your password expired and you have to change it…..”
moron: “oh.”
the world is never the same
Come on Jsb, we all know you are the “moron” and “me” is your boss.
those are the same poeple who see the box score in the paper and see texeira pitched and say to their friends the paper is stupid because he is a first baseman and not a pitcher cause they have no idea how to spell teixeira and that we have a pitcher named texeira. but i digress
Are they really going to make the same mistake twice? We gambled on Posada last year and he ended up getting surgery in the end.
You’re assuming the situations are identical, and hence, we’d be making the “same” mistake twice.
The situations probably aren’t identical. First of all, we’re talking about a hip on a third baseman v. a shoulder on a catcher.
But still, when an aging player has an injury that will need surgery eventually, take the safe route and do it. Playing through pain isn’t as pleasant as it sounds.
WOW I just read Joba’s line today, 4 walks, 1 hit, 5 runs and 0 outs!!!! Forget starting or relieving, send him back to AAA!!!!!!
Also Igawa today:
3IP, 1H, 0R, 0ER, 2SO, 0BB
I feel like we are in the Twilight Zone
Today, we spell “bust” J-O-B-A.
Just shows spring training means nothing.
How did the Yankees miss this or why didnt A-rod tell them he was hurting so much a get it checked out?
He was not hurting so much. He just had stiffness and discomfort and probably didn’t think too much of it.
Somebody already made an HGH joke, right?
http://xboxcheaterwatch.files......achine.jpg
Gold, Jerry. It’s gold.
nobody else thinks there’s a chance this is a bit of a ploy to get him out of the WBC?
I think they could have come up with something a little less serious dont ya think?
No, that would be one pretty big ploy.
OMFG OMFG OMFG OMFG GUYZ LETZ GET DAVID WRIGHT!!!!!!!
Just heard on 1050am (joel sherman) is that Arod actually had a mri last november in the hip region (during a normal after season physical)and that nothing came up on the mri.
Arod did complain of stiffness – not pain. So the yankees decided to monitor him – only recently did they become alarmed that they decided to do another mri