Yanks to open stadium to parkless Bronx residents

AL East chat at Beyond the Boxscore
The RAB Radio Show - March 19, 2009 - Episode 19

As the Yanks have constructed a $2 billion behemoth on the northwest corner of River Ave. and 161st St., the team has faced off with Bronx community activists unhappy with the way the team displaced valuable parkland and hasn’t delivered on the promise of jobs. Now, the Yankees are extending something of an olive branch to their Yankee-loving neighbors.

The Yankees will be opening up the gates of new Yankee Stadium on Thursday, April 2 for Bronx residents. The team will distribute 15,000 free tickets to Bronx community boards, Bronx-based community organizations and union workers who helped construct the new stadium. The 12 community boards will each get 1000 tickets to distribute to residents.

Beyond that, I don’t know how distribution will work, but I’d pay for one of those tickets. I’m just putting that out there for our Bronx-based readers. Contact info for the Bronx community boards can be found here.

Meanwhile, the Yanks and borough activists are still sparring over the lack of replacement parks. NY1 News’ Shazia Khan reports that the various rooftop parks that will cover the new parking lots surrounding Yankee Stadium won’t be completed until 2010. She also has news on the fate of old Yankee Stadium:

The old Yankee Stadium will be transformed into Heritage Field Park. Demolition is slated to start next month and construction of the park is expected to be completed by spring 2011.

Critics, however, say that’s not soon enough.

“It’s completely outrageous that elected officials and this administration have allowed this Yankee Stadium to still stand,” said New York City Park Advocates President Geoffrey Croft. “The New York Mets, the day after demolition, started taking down their field. This community deserves much better than that and this community is desperate for recreation.”

At some point in the next two years, the Bronx will have its parks and numerous trees to replace what once was lost. I don’t, however, blame the community and park activists for feeling slighted. Shea Stadium was recently turned into a parking lot in short order. The city could have made an effort to do the same with Yankee Stadium.

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AL East chat at Beyond the Boxscore
The RAB Radio Show - March 19, 2009 - Episode 19
  • steve (different one)

    can we please drop this strawman that the demolision of Yankee stadium, which lies in the middle of an active community, and the demolision of Shea, which lies in the middle of a vacant parking lot, are somehow comparable??

    not saying the Yankees haven’t missed the mark on the parkland, but it’s not really fair either to cite the fact that Shea is demolished.

    it’s a MUCH easier job.

    • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      It’s a much easier job, for sure, but it could have been done by now. I hear you and it’s a valid point, but only to a certain extent. Would it be reasonable to expect the demolition of Yankee Stadium to happen on the same timetable as the demolition of Shea? No. But that does not mean it could not be much further along right now than it is, or even finished by now.

      • steve (different one)

        i tried to make this argument before and it wasn’t very popular, but i still think the Yankees or the Mets needed to keep at least one stadium around in the chance that either stadium was not finished by opening day.

        • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          Yeah I remember when you made that argument. I mean, I guess. I don’t know about the Mets, but the Yankees definitely worked out their construction schedule so that they would have time to deal with delays/overruns. That was the whole point of having the stadium be substantially complete months early. For your guess to be accurate they would have had to have kept the old stadium around in case BOTH Citifield and the new Yankee Stadium were not ready. Remember, if one of the stadiums isn’t ready for opening day, there’s always the other new stadium as an emergency backup plan. It just doesn’t seem like a reasonable guess, to me.

          And, in any event, nobody from the Yankees has ever said that keeping one stadium around “just in case” was ever a consideration, so I think we can probably dispense with that as a realistic option/explanation for what happened. If they had a reasonable explanation for the delay of the demolition of the old stadium you can bet your ass that they would have gone public with that explanation by now.

          One final point: Nobody is saying they should have started demolishing the old stadium either before they started construction on the new stadium or even at some time before the new stadium’s construction was already well on its way. The new stadium was close to being complete last fall. They should be much further along in the demolition of the old stadium than they are right now.

          • steve (different one)

            all valid points.

            like i said originally, the Yankees have missed the mark on the parks, i just think it’s a little intellectually dishonest to compare it to the demolition of Shea.

            • Chris C.

              They were using Shea as an example of a Stadium replacement that was done in a timely fashion. They weren’t comparing it brick by brick to Yankee Stadium regading the size of the demolition job..

              The fact that Yankee Stadium is still standing has absolutely nothing to do with the strenuous demolition job entailed to take it down.

  • http://www.twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

    In fairness to the Yankees, the demo of the old stadium is more complex than that of Shea (mainly due to the adjacent parking garage and subway tracks plus the new garage being constructed and the new Metro North stop infrastructure going up vs. the fact that there’s nothing around Shea so you can just drive a crane with a wrecking ball right up there and start swinging)…

    but yeah, I don’t know why they haven’t even starting dismantling the old building yet. It doesn’t make much sense.

  • Ed

    The New York Mets, the day after demolition, started taking down their field.

    What are they trying to say there?

    Shea Stadium was recently turned into a parking lot in short order.

    There’s a big reason why – part of the outer wall of CitiField overlaps where Shea Stadium used to stand. It was impossible to finish CitiField without at least partially demolishing Shea Stadium. That left a very narrow window of time to start the demolishing Shea.

    The city could have made an effort to do the same with Yankee Stadium.

    They could have, but there was no reason that it *had* to be done immediately, so it would make sense to schedule it for a time they works well for the city, the team, and the construction companies doing the actual work. They may also have desired to avoid doing the work doing the winter months for weather reasons.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      They could have, but there was no reason that it *had* to be done immediately…

      Except for the promises they made to the residents of the South Bronx that they’re not living up to.

    • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      “They may also have desired to avoid doing the work doing the winter months for weather reasons.”

      No. Both teams built during the winter, and the Mets also demolished during the winter. The weather has nothing to do with it. Winter doesn’t stop construction, or demolition. Sorry to be so harsh on this one, but it’s just an invalid argument that a lot of people make.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        At most, a bad blizzard would have pushed back demolition by one day. At most.

        • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          Yeah, but that’s not even the point though. It’s just an invalid argument. Weather just doesn’t delay construction schedules on projects like this. We have plenty of real-world examples, even in the situation we’re discussing, to debunk this argument without even considering the random chance that a blizzard would hit the South Bronx. I just think that argument needs to be dispensed with completely.

      • Chris

        There are actually a lot of situations where companies time projects around the winter months. For example, buildings are often timed to be closed up by the fall, so that they inside work can be done when the weather is bad. I don’t think there’s a situation where work can’t continue through the winter, but it’s often cheaper to do the work in the spring/summer/fall rather than the winter.

        Another thing to consider is that the park will require significant landscaping that is required to be done in the warmer months. Pulling in the demolition of the stadium by 4 months (which is probably the best they could do) wouldn’t really help get the park open any sooner. It just means that the park would sit half finished over the winter while they wait to do the landscaping.

        • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          There are actually a lot of situations where companies time projects around the winter months. For example, buildings are often timed to be closed up by the fall, so that they inside work can be done when the weather is bad. I don’t think there’s a situation where work can’t continue through the winter, but it’s often cheaper to do the work in the spring/summer/fall rather than the winter.

          Alright, clearly construction schedules are affected by the winter, obviously I’ll concede that and I didn’t mean to imply that construction is the same in summer and winter. But that just means that maybe the schedule is a little slower during the winter, not that the project is completely delayed for months until the Spring/Summer hits.

          Another thing to consider is that the park will require significant landscaping that is required to be done in the warmer months. Pulling in the demolition of the stadium by 4 months (which is probably the best they could do) wouldn’t really help get the park open any sooner. It just means that the park would sit half finished over the winter while they wait to do the landscaping.

          Isn’t this an argument for why the demolition should have been done during the winter? So that the landscaping could be done during the warmer months?

          • Chris

            I don’t know everything involved in the project, but it sounds like there is related work to be done with park garages. That could be done any time, but the landscaping work couldn’t be completed until that’s done. Depending on how all the different elements time out, there may not be an opportunity to pull in the schedule a meaningful amount. The Yankees may have been faced with a decision about when to start the demo that would have no impact on the date when the parks would be complete.

            • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

              Ok, that’s possible I suppose, no problem here. I just think now we’re getting into HIGHLY speculative talk and, again, nobody from the Yankees has made any effort to give any explanation for the delay. Like I said above, if they had a reasonable explanation for the delay of the demolition of the old stadium you can bet your ass that they would have gone public with that explanation by now. But whatever, we’re out of the realm of being able to argue, really; at this point it’s too speculative.

              • Chris

                I can keep speculating much longer than this. The fact that you give up means I win the argument!!!

                Yipeee!!!!

                • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  lol. I speculate that you suck.

                  Mondesi FTW

    • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      The New York Mets, the day after demolition, started taking down their field.
      What are they trying to say there?

      Um, they’re saying that the Mets started demolition much earlier than did the Yankees. Not sure what’s not clear about that.

      Shea Stadium was recently turned into a parking lot in short order.
      There’s a big reason why – part of the outer wall of CitiField overlaps where Shea Stadium used to stand. It was impossible to finish CitiField without at least partially demolishing Shea Stadium. That left a very narrow window of time to start the demolishing Shea.

      That’s all well and good, but has nothing to do with whether the Yankees should have started demolishing the old stadium earlier.

      The city could have made an effort to do the same with Yankee Stadium.
      They could have, but there was no reason that it *had* to be done immediately, so it would make sense to schedule it for a time they works well for the city, the team, and the construction companies doing the actual work.

      Again, that’s fine, but they also could have had some consideration for the fourth interest group here, the community. Nobody’s arguing that the Yankees didn’t act in their own self-interest here, people are just questioning whether it’s right that they’ve decided to delay their obligations to the community.

      And, from my comment above…

      They may also have desired to avoid doing the work doing the winter months for weather reasons.
      No. Both teams built during the winter, and the Mets also demolished during the winter. The weather has nothing to do with it. Winter doesn’t stop construction, or demolition. Sorry to be so harsh on this one, but it’s just an invalid argument that a lot of people make.

      • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        I suck, I totally messed up the formatting in my comment above. My bad.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          You have let Raul down.

          • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

            He IS a stickler for comment formatting. I’m in for it later.

            • Mike Pop

              You’re used to taking it, Mondesi.

              • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                Well I was a very good catcher, but that was back in high school.

                Gay jokes, FTW!

                • Mike Pop

                  And you liked it!

                • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  Lol, I like your dedication to the art of the gay joke. Tenacious! I’ll play along one more time:

                  What can I say. I was a good receiver.

        • steve (different one)

          Um, they’re saying that the Mets started demolition much earlier than did the Yankees. Not sure what’s not clear about that.

          in fairness to Ed, read the quote again. it doesn’t *quite* make sense. i initially had to read it twice, but decided it wasn’t worth commenting on.

          that’s all he meant. the sentence is confusing.

          • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

            Meh, whatever, that’s fine, my bad. But it’s not too hard to figure out what the intent of the statement was, I think pointing out someone’s typo and responding as if that typo somehow weakens their argument is kind of a weak argument in and of itself.

            • Ed

              a) That sentence isn’t just a typo, it just doesn’t make sense.

              b) I never implied it weakened their argument, I asked for clarification on that point and then responded to other points.

              • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                (a) I’d be willing to bet that it should have read: “The New York Mets, the day after demolition the end of the season, started taking down their field.” I didn’t think it was too hard to figure that out, maybe I’m wrong.

                (b) You used it as one of many points made to undercut and attack the quoted party, so whether you were just pointing out that it didn’t make sense or actually making a substantive comment is irrelevant. You were using it to tear down the quoted party and imply that the quoted party is unintelligent/incorrect/etc. I just think that’s a weak way to argue, you can argue the substantive points without resorting to that. If something is unclear, argue the intent, not the typo or mistake.

      • Ed

        Um, they’re saying that the Mets started demolition much earlier than did the Yankees. Not sure what’s not clear about that.

        Well, that quote says they took apart the field after they demolished it. Perhaps that has meaning to you. It doesn’t to me.

        That’s all well and good, but has nothing to do with whether the Yankees should have started demolishing the old stadium earlier.

        It does if your only argument for claiming that Yankee Stadium should have been demolished sooner is because Shea was demolished sooner.

        Both teams built during the winter, and the Mets also demolished during the winter.

        Yankee Stadium construction was scheduled so that indoor work was done during the winter months. Citifield probably wasn’t, as the location overlap probably prevented that from being an option.

        Most of the demolition work for Shea Stadium was done in November and December, before the worst parts of winter.

        And again, Shea Stadium was done on the schedule it was because that was the only possible way to have CitiField ready for opening day. That does not mean they would choose that schedule if they had other options, as is the case with Yankee Stadium.

        • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          Um, they’re saying that the Mets started demolition much earlier than did the Yankees. Not sure what’s not clear about that.

          Well, that quote says they took apart the field after they demolished it. Perhaps that has meaning to you. It doesn’t to me.

          I’d be willing to bet that it should have read: “The New York Mets, the day after the end of the season, started taking down their field.” I didn’t think it was too hard to figure that out, maybe I’m wrong.

          That’s all well and good, but has nothing to do with whether the Yankees should have started demolishing the old stadium earlier.

          It does if your only argument for claiming that Yankee Stadium should have been demolished sooner is because Shea was demolished sooner.

          That’s a straw-man, nobody is claiming that they Yankees should have demolished earlier only because the Mets did so. It’s just a parallel situation that can be pointed to in order to ask why the Yankees have waited so long to start demolishing the old stadium.

          Both teams built during the winter, and the Mets also demolished during the winter.

          Yankee Stadium construction was scheduled so that indoor work was done during the winter months.

          That’s nice, but irrelevant on this topic.

          Citifield probably wasn’t, as the location overlap probably prevented that from being an option.

          So then you agree this work can, in fact, be done during the winter. The reason (overlap) is speculation and is irrelevant to me.

          Most of the demolition work for Shea Stadium was done in November and December, before the worst parts of winter. And again, Shea Stadium was done on the schedule it was because that was the only possible way to have CitiField ready for opening day. That does not mean they would choose that schedule if they had other options, as is the case with Yankee Stadium.

          The Yankees also could have started in November/December, and any explanation offered here for why they didn’t is, at this point, nothing more than pure speculation. As I said above, I don’t think the second and third sentences above are relevant to the issue at hand.

          I have a good reason why the Yankees should have started demolition sooner: There’s no reason for the old stadium to still stand (it’s an empty, abandoned building) and the community is waiting for the Yankees to live up to their agreed-upon obligations.

    • Chris C.

      “They could have, but there was no reason that it *had* to be done immediately, so it would make sense to schedule it for a time they works well for the city, the team, and the construction companies doing the actual work.”

      Yeah, fuck the residents who were told it would be down already.
      As long as YOU weren’t inconvenienced!
      And the Yankees, that is. It’s not lke they owe it to anyone to keep their committments. The entire Stadium is built on their dime, right? Right?

    • Chris C.

      “They may also have desired to avoid doing the work doing the winter months for weather reasons.”

      Uh-oh. I feel a “unions” rant coming on. I better leave the thread. It would have gotten ugly.

  • LiveFromNY

    Not to be a jerk about this but I grew up near the Concourse and some of the “community activists” that are screaming are people who generally do “not much” for the place. Not that everyone is not doing for the place, but the community should be doing more to lift the community up than just ragging about a park.

    That neighborhood and its environs was once a great place to live and grow up. The outrage is a bit over the top considering how much is NOT being done in those neighborhoods. Buildings with outrageous code violations, gang violence and the proliferation of guns over there have torn the place apart. Yes, we need more parks there and hopefully we will build a great one, but you can’t be moaning about the loss of one park for one year while doing nothing about anything else.

    There is so much that can and should be getting cleaned up. I have heard the Concourse is going to be revitalized and that’s great news (it WAS the best neighborhood to grow up in during the 60s) but you can’t hang the whole albatross of the community issues on the Yankees. Yes, they can and should do more but they are not responsible for the general disarray of the hood.

    I think the Yankees could have done more in the 70s but the “Bronx is burning” era was really tough and no one knew quite WHAT to do. Hindsight is 20/20 and it would have been wonderful to take back the neighborhood THEN but it wasn’t done.

    The Yankees can and should invest money in the Bronx. Yes they should. They should do more for the people that live around the Stadium. But if the community groups take this adversarial position to the team, which they do again and again, the residents of the Bronx will be the ones who lose.

    Again, I’m not trying to be a jerk AND the neighborhood should have its park back but it’s a bit of a stretch to be THIS outraged AND the community groups would really fare better making an ally of the Yankees. They have the deep pockets and an infuse of cash and cooperation is what is needed to return the Concourse to its former glory.

    • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      Not to be a jerk about this but I grew up near the Concourse and some of the “community activists” that are screaming are people who generally do “not much” for the place. Not that everyone is not doing for the place, but the community should be doing more to lift the community up than just ragging about a park.

      Completely irrelevant. The Yankees have certain obligations they have to meet. Your, or anyone’s, opinion on how much the residents of the South Bronx do to improve their own community is irrelevant.

      The Yankees can and should invest money in the Bronx. Yes they should. They should do more for the people that live around the Stadium. But if the community groups take this adversarial position to the team, which they do again and again, the residents of the Bronx will be the ones who lose.

      The community is taking an adversarial position because the Yankees haven’t met their obligations. The displeasure with the situation is not unprovoked.

      And… Dude… You can be a jerk even if you say you’re not trying to be one. lol

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      There are so many strawman, tu quoque, appeals to emotion, and other logical fallacies in there I don’t know where to begin.

      So I’ll sum up: The South Bronx is kinda fucked up. The Yankees had an idea to build themselves a new stadium, and they had to do it using up one of the few areas of the South Bronx that isn’t fucked up, that being Macombs Dam Park. The community residents, who knew that they weren’t really going to benefit financially from a new Yankee Stadium (only the Yankees do) said that if they wanted a new Stadium, at bare minimum they have to replace what they fuck up with something equal or better and they have to cover the bill for the stadium-related infrastructure improvements that are about 40 years overdue.

      Those demands are far from unreasonable. The Yankees agreed to the parkland, NOT the infrastructure. The city is paying for the infrastructure – at the behest of the Yankees, NOT at the behest of the community. Then after the agreement was agreed to, the Yankees and the city IN CONJUCTION WITH EACH OTHER did the following three things:

      A) said that the stuff we fucked up that we promised to replace will actually not be fully replaced but only partially replaced
      B) said that the stuff we fucked up that we promised to replace will be replaced about two or three years later than we promised
      C) admitted that the cost to the city taxpayers for the infrastructure promised will be about double what was initially stated

      Yeah, I can see why some community members are rightly upset.

      • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        Once again your response is much better than mine. So just disregard my response above, everyone. Nothing to see there. Yeah, what he said.

    • Chris C.

      “Not to be a jerk about this but I grew up near the Concourse and some of the “community activists” that are screaming are people who generally do “not much” for the place.”

      Doesn’t matter. They are representing the opinions and the promises made to taxpayers.

      “I think the Yankees could have done more in the 70s but the “Bronx is burning” era was really tough and no one knew quite WHAT to do. Hindsight is 20/20 and it would have been wonderful to take back the neighborhood THEN but it wasn’t done.”

      I’m not sure exactly what relevence this has.

      “The Yankees can and should invest money in the Bronx. Yes they should. They should do more for the people that live around the Stadium. But if the community groups take this adversarial position to the team, which they do again and again, the residents of the Bronx will be the ones who lose.”

      HAHAHA. Maybe if the Yankees built the place with their own profits, I’d agree. But that aint the case. The city practically buys the Yankees a new stadium, and now everyone’s supposed to lick Steinbrenner’s boots too??

  • steve (different one)

    while i as an outsider don’t quite know all of the details, i do appreciate the perspective from those people in the thread who actually have lived in the neighborhood and see these issues first hand.

    thanks.

  • ceciguante

    more BS from local politicos. really, the people of the south bronx are “desperate for recreation”?? that’s the best this guy can do? you’re fired.

    the fact that the ‘hood is getting a new metro north station (a huge infrastructure improvement), and that sky high yankee attendance is virtually guaranteed for a good 10 more years despite the team’s performance (and yes, the community benefits heavily from that)….don’t mention that. the fact that the rest of the city taxpayers are footing most of the bill for a world famous destination that will bring an influx of consumers into their ‘hood….nope, not relevant. it’s all a horrible injustice b/c they have to live without a local playground for a year or two. my gag reflex is off the charts.

    is anyone involved here aware of how many large scale real estate projects have altogether failed in this economy and won’t ever get built, period? they’re going down like flies, billion dollar carcasses all over the city. and the south bronx wants their parkland, pronto?? tell them to — gasp! — ride the subway a couple stops to van cortlandt or central park for two summers. my sympathy quotient for these self-absorbed people is zero.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      the fact that the ‘hood is getting a new metro north station (a huge infrastructure improvement),

      The ‘hood’ has ZERO use for said Metro North station. You’re talking about the poorest citizens of NYC here in the South Bronx. They take the subway to work/school and take it home. Metro North takes them nowhere they wish to/need to go. They didn’t ride Metro North before, they’re not riding it now. Nice try, but not compelling. The Yankees wanted Metro North to make it easier for their Connecticut fans to get into and out of the South Bronx without taking their cars… if anything, this HURTS the SoBro economically because there will be less walk-through traffic from drivers (these Conn commuters will go train-to-stadium-to-train with nary a store visited between.)

      and that sky high yankee attendance is virtually guaranteed for a good 10 more years despite the team’s performance (and yes, the community benefits heavily from that) ….don’t mention that.

      And the new stadium has nothing to do with that. There was a stadium here before, there’s one here now. No gain to the community. Again, this HURTS the Bronx since there’s now 5,000 fewer people coming here every gameday.

      the fact that the rest of the city taxpayers are footing most of the bill for a world famous destination that will bring an influx of consumers into their ‘hood….nope, not relevant.

      THOSE CONSUMERS WERE ALREADY INFLUXING INTO THEIR HOOD. THE DESTINATION WAS STILL WORLD FAMOUS A YEAR AGO.

      it’s all a horrible injustice b/c they have to live without a local playground for a year or two. my gag reflex is off the charts.

      It’s a horrible injustice because they’ll end up having been inconvenienced for 4-5 total years worth of construction snarl and end up with less green public space and parkland than they had before, with more dollars LEAVING the neighborhood than there was with the old configuration. The Yankees have done the opposite of outsourcing here, they’ve INSOURCED. There will be LESS business done in the neighborhood because the Yankees are building all the restaurants and gift shops and jersey hawkers you can shake a stick at INSIDE their building, and they’ve created a grand pavilion of Yankeedom that’s actually further isolated from the community, as the garages and walkways and Metro North and subway access make it easier and easier for Yankee fans to get into and out of the River Ave complex without ever interacting with the rest of the community. Look at the trafficflows from the new garages, which are all between the Deegan and the new stadium: there’s no more parking your car and walking past Billy’s and Stan’s, you’re in Yankee territory from start to finish.

      • ceciguante

        i don’t buy this sense of “SoBro” entitlement you convey. metro north is useless b/c those people don’t typically go north? how about the new ability to compete for jobs north of the city? access to parks they’re so “desperate” for? the accessibility of SoBro to people from N of the city who might start a business in the area, or increased connectivity to midtown (not sure if that’s enhanced)? that metro N station could ultimately be a major cog in SoBro development. the fact that the hood is poor doesn’t mean current residents have some right to squelch anything they don’t use today.

        your position comes off as a belief in SoBro residents’ entitlement to yankee presence and yankee dollars, on the resdents’ terms. in reality, those residents are entitled to nothing. they aren’t the yankees, they don’t make the team happen, they don’t own the land, they’re not native to the area…they just live nearby. they pay no more stadium tax $ than i do from bklyn, but they have a parade of consumer dollars in their hood 6 mos/year. that’s a boon, not a plague, and it’s not their birthright.

        i was against the new stadium for sentimental and fiscal reasons (i.e., wasn’t yet necessary), but these residents are having this landmark updated to a brand new one that’ll last much longer. you talk about “insourcing” and “outsourcing”, and it seems you think it should be up to the SoBro residents when the yanks build a new stadium and how many seats it has, b/c the residents somehow deserve 57,500 max attendance. that’s all backwards, because the very presence of the yankees is entirely “outsourcing”, to use your word.

        this parkland construction delay is a non-story, it’s the nature of the screwed up construction industry and multi billion dollar projects. there is no cause for outrage here.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          i don’t buy this sense of “SoBro” entitlement you convey. metro north is useless b/c those people don’t typically go north? how about the new ability to compete for jobs north of the city? access to parks they’re so “desperate” for? the accessibility of SoBro to people from N of the city who might start a business in the area, or increased connectivity to midtown (not sure if that’s enhanced)? that metro N station could ultimately be a major cog in SoBro development. the fact that the hood is poor doesn’t mean current residents have some right to squelch anything they don’t use today.

          There were three stakeholders brought to the table at the outset of this: The City, the Yankees, and the SoBro community. The SoBro community didn’t ask for a Metro North stop because they didn’t want it, didn’t see the use or need for it, and thought it would probably do the community more harm than good. The City didn’t ask for a Metro North stop because they didn’t want to build it or pay for it or have it slow their existing network and didn’t see it as a benefit to the community.

          Only one stakeholder asked for a Metro North stop and put the issue on the table: The Yankees. That should tell you something.

          Seriously, I work in this neighborhood. These people are our customers. I interact with them on a daily basis. There are no residents of the South Bronx who have any interest or see any benefit to a Metro North Stop by Yankee Stadium. None.

          your position comes off as a belief in SoBro residents’ entitlement to yankee presence and yankee dollars, on the resdents’ terms. in reality, those residents are entitled to nothing. they aren’t the yankees, they don’t make the team happen, they don’t own the land, they’re not native to the area…they just live nearby. they pay no more stadium tax $ than i do from bklyn, but they have a parade of consumer dollars in their hood 6 mos/year. that’s a boon, not a plague, and it’s not their birthright.

          If you lived and worked here, you would know how wrong this paragraph is. The stadium isn’t a boon or a drain, it’s a noisy neighbor. Were the Stadium some great economic panacea, than 80+ years of Yankee Stadium in the South Bronx likely would have lead to this neighborhood being an economic boontown or at least a solidly middle-class neighborhood. It’s not, it’s the poorest neighborhood in the city.

          this parkland construction delay is a non-story, it’s the nature of the screwed up construction industry and multi billion dollar projects. there is no cause for outrage here.

          Had the Yankees not MADE EXPLICIT PROMISES TO THE COMMUNITY AT THE OUTSET, maybe you would be right. But they did. And they’ve broken them at virtually every turn. This is historical fact.

          • ceciguanterootsforbinghamton

            i appreciate that you live and work in that hood, but i reject the idea that the SoBro community, as a so-called “stakeholder”, has any idea whether a metro north station has the potential to benefit the community. yes, it’s been poor for ages, and that’s not the yankees’ fault. nor will it (or should it) be cured by the yankees. nor, as you suggest, do the yankees owe the community 57,500 seats if they want to downsize to 52K in their new stadium. the idea that the residents two blocks away have something to do with that decision is misplaced, imo. the yanks, and the taxpayers at large, foot the bill. not the high handed SoBro residents.

            “EXPLICIT PROMISES TO THE COMMUNITY” is irrelevant. massive construction projects USUALLY incur delays, outside of the control of the owner. you can choose to deny that whether you live and work there or not, but it, too, is historical fact. two years from now this little parkland delay will be forgotten. but i’ve seen community groups in action before. they’re frequently selfish, poorly educated on the project, and greedy.

            in the end, i do hope the metro N station helps the community (tho i’m not holding my breath that it will have any immediate impact). but the ills of that destitute area are not the responsibility of the yankees. if the south bronx community can’t rise up with a parade of consumer dollars in their hood 81x a year, then they should work on learning to exploit that immense business opportunity which any other poor ‘hood would love to have, rather than pointing fingers and complaining about construction noise.

  • Rob S.

    Someone tell Mr. Croft to get a real problem. City parks will never generate revenue like the new Yankee Stadium will. They didn’t exactly pave paradise and put up a parking lot.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Public parklands raise property values and virtually all public health indicia in the neighborhoods they inhabit.

      This is why rich white people in rich white neighborhoods fight like hell to preserve/increase public parks around them. Why these poor black and brown people are being chastised for demanding that the city and the Yankees merely honor their basic promises to preserve/increase the public parks in this poor black and brown neighborhood is beyond me.

      I’m a Yankee fan, and the selfish Yankee fan in me is happy that we have a nice, shiny new stadium. But we don’t have to needlessly and pettily screw over the residents of the South Bronx to do it. I’m a Yankee fan who is reasonable enough to know the team I root for is unequivocally in the wrong here.

      • ceciguante

        enough with the grossly generalizing “rich white people” and “poor black and brown people” crap. let’s get past that already.

        the parkland is going to be a year or two late. what people don’t seem to realize (and “community activists”, stoked by local politicians, are supreme here) is that construction projects in excess of $1 Billion are immensely complex. they rely on a very long chain of contractors, subcontractors, financers and suppliers, and any one of them faltering can set off a domino effect of change orders and delays. in this economy, it’s a small wonder that a project of that size is going to be done, mostly on time. to gnash teeth over not having a local park for one year, or two — and to make it an issue of white and brown people — is scapegoating and ignorant. it shows you don’t know how big development projects work, so you suggest racial bias. i call foul.

        if you don’t think so, go check into how many projects in “rich, white” neighborhoods suffer real delays, or how many huge real estate deals in “rich, white” neighborhoods are dead in their tracks, pure eyesores b/c the financing collapsed. just walk around manhattan if you want the proof. i worked on one deal that’s bigger than yankee stadium in total cost, and it’s dying a slow death, on a prime manhattan intersection. i assure you, it’s not about skin color.

        • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          I was working on a long response but I realized it’s probably not worth it. Why are you so against people who want the Yankees to live up to their obligations and deliver the promised green-spaces? I just don’t get it. You seem to be attacking people who want the promised green-spaces and their very claim to those promised green-spaces, it’s not like you’re just saying “there’s a reason the parks are being delayed.” You’re like the green-spaces grinch, I don’t get it. You sound very unhappy.

          • ceciguante

            i think you’re somewhat missing my point, mondesi. i’m not the green spaces grinch. in fact, i have a background in environmental advocacy. and i believe the yanks are obligated to deliver the parkland. i am simply suggesting that there probably is a good reason for the delays. the NY1 article quotes a city rep saying that the cause of the delays is the falling marketplace, which leads to a (very typical) delay in the bidding process. that’s not an attack by me, it’s a call for people to not attack the yanks for what i suspect is an innocent, and possibly even a prudent, construction delay.

            if i’m unhappy about anything, it’s tsjc’s suggestion that my position would be different if the community was full of “rich white” people who complained. that’s an unsupported comment intended to color my position racist. this isn’t about color, it’s about whether the construction delays are a screw job vs. a typical but unfortunate nuisance. understand that if the yanks tried to back out altogether from building the parks, i’d quickly join in the public outrage against them.

            • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

              Ok, this last comment was reasonable enough, but you may want to review your comments a little longer before you hit the “Add Comment” button. You can’t act as though you haven’t been throwing a little muck around when your first comment (of many) in the thread (I don’t care enough at this point to do a blow by blow description) discussed BS and gag reflexes and an “oh too bad for those people who want their parkland” attitude. I don’t think I was missing your point, I think you threw in a LOT of inflammatory language that maybe obfuscated what you believe to be your point with extraneous provocations.

      • Chris C.

        “I’m a Yankee fan, and the selfish Yankee fan in me is happy that we have a nice, shiny new stadium. But we don’t have to needlessly and pettily screw over the residents of the South Bronx to do it.”

        At this point, do you really expect anything different from the Yankees? They already have shown they have no shame in screwing over their own fan base and long-time ticket holders. And they have NEVER given even the slightest of shits about the citizens of the South Bronx.
        In their minds, those people don’t even exist.

        “I’m a Yankee fan who is reasonable enough to know the team I root for is unequivocally in the wrong here.”

        And you had to know it was coming. Nobody could have really believed that the Yankees would all of a sudden become cognizent or their Bronx neighbors. That was all just flimsy, phony talk to sell this whole new stadium idea, and to land the scratch needed to build it.
        Good ol’ belly rubbing.

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