Halladay dominates weak lineup as Jays beat Yanks

Wang goes six strong in rehab start
Everybody hurts

The writing was on the wall before the first pitch. With Roy Halladay on the mound and with the Yanks featuring the equivalent of three pitchers in the lineup, A.J. Burnett would have to spin a gem to give his team a chance. He didn’t quite accomplish that. A couple of walks led to three runs in the fourth, and that’s all Roy Halladay would need. He cruised through the Yanks lineup on the way to a 5-1 Blue Jays victory.

Not that Halladay did it against an impressive lineup. With Swisher sitting and Jeter getting scratched, the Yanks lineup featured Ramiro Pena, Kevin Cash, and Brett Gardner, the latest hitting leadoff. He’s fast, therefore he hits leadoff. I think Dusty Baker said that. They were a collective 1 for 9, with the only hit coming in the ninth, a leadoff double from Ramiro Pena. He was one of just five Yankee baserunners last night, and like three others he didn’t come around to score.

While the Yanks offense certainly sucked, most of what you saw was Roy Halladay. He did what he does best, which is get groundball outs: 16 to be exact, to 5 fly outs and 5 strikeouts. After a league-leading nine complete games last year, this was just his first this year, but it certainly will not be his last. The only descriptor necessary, really, for Halladay’s start is dominance. At least the Yanks can take solace in not having to face him again until July 4th weekend.

On the mound, A.J. was pretty solid, consistently pumping 96 mph fastballs. Speed doesn’t always lead to results, and some wildness on the part of Burnett led to a big fourth inning for the Jays. They capitalized on A.J.’s two walks when Scott Rolen doubled in two. That extended to three when Kevin Cash couldn’t handle a money throw from Melky Cabrera on a sac fly. A.J. gave up a couple of runs in the eighth, but they were ultimately meaningless. Discouraging for sure, but ultimately meaningless.

While the Jays scored on a double, sac fly, homer, and single, the difference was in the walks. A.J. walked four, three of whom came around to score. Specifically, walking Wells and Lind back to back hurt coming on the heels of an Alex Rios leadoff double. That started the big inning, one the Yankees could not survive. That, folks, is all there really is to talk about. Burnett was good, dominating at times, but ultimately didn’t get the job done.

There won’t be many instances where a team will face Roy Halladay and then face someone tougher the next, but tomorrow’s matchup features the Yankees kryptonite: a middling starter they have yet to see. Scott Richmond, who signed with the Blue Jays after the 2007 season age 27, is having a fine season, but if the Yankees’ recent history is any indication he’ll look like Pedro Martinez circa 1999. It’s pessimistic, sure, but when the Yanks get dominated by the likes of Matt Palmer it’s tough to get excited.

Notes: Hideki Matsui left the game with a hamstring injury. John Sterling reported that it was a “strained hamstring,” but that seems like that’s a bit premature a diagnoses. We’ll update when we have more specific information. Hammies are never good, though. Also joining the crew in the infirmary is Phil Coke, who has back issues. So where’s the trainer the team can fire this year as a scapegoat?

Wang goes six strong in rehab start
Everybody hurts
  • Ivan

    Hey, I thought u guys liked Brett Gardner.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Who?

      • http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/e6omir.gif OmgZombies

        Juan Pierre lite

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          In Brett’s dreams.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            To borrow a Bill Simmons turn of phrase, Brett Gardner isn’t a poor man’s Juan Pierre, he’s a homeless man’s Juan PIerre.

    • Andy In Sunny Daytona

      No. They just really hated Melky.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

      I liked giving Brett Gardner a chance. And then I saw what he could do. Then I determined that we had given him enough of a chance.

  • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Aunt Becca-Optimist Prime

    What the heck is going on with these injuries? It’s a little ridiculous. I know the Yanks haven’t been bitten as bad as others (LAA will never get Adenhart back no matter what) but still…damn.

    • http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/e6omir.gif OmgZombies

      With how the Blue Jays are playing, injures are no excuse for a team with a $200m payroll.

      • V

        Any time someone mentions the payroll, as if that guarantees anything, they become impossible to argue with.

        No one was going to beat the Halladay the Yankees saw last night. No one.

        • http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/e6omir.gif OmgZombies

          Whos talking about last night? The season so far is what I’m referring to. Lots of teams have injuries and its part of the game but they still succeed. The reason why I bring payroll into it the discussion is becuase a good number of other teams continue to do more with less resources.

          • V

            Yes, it’s called having a well stocked farm system, which, given the Yankees totally ignored it up until the last several years, one wouldn’t expect them to have one.

            We’ll see who’s standing at the end of the season. I still believe half of the current division leaders are going to finish 5-10 games out of the playoffs.

          • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

            I dare you to name me a team that has suffered injuries anywhere near comparable to the following:

            #2 starter
            #1 set-up reliever
            #2 set-up reliever
            starting catcher
            backup catcher
            starting third basemen
            backup third basemen
            starting right fielder

            • andrew

              For a second there I was wondering who this backup third basemen was that you were referring to… then I remember Cody Ransom. I don’t really miss him.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              #2 starter
              #1 set-up reliever
              #2 set-up reliever
              starting catcher
              backup catcher
              starting third basemen
              backup third basemen
              starting right fielder

              Plus:
              #7 starter (Kennedy)
              #8 starter (Johnson)
              #3 set-up reliever (Coke)
              starting DH (Matsui)

              • R

                You have to wonder what is going on with all of these injuries. Is it age? Is it something else? The number of injuries seems to be well above the norm. It seems like the Yankees haven’t played with a full strength or nearly full strength team in 2 seasons.

            • bryan

              Well, let’s try Toronto:

              #2 starter
              #3 starter
              #4 starter
              #6 starter
              #2 mid guy
              starting closer
              backup catcher

              For pretty much the entire season, our starting rotation has consisted of Roy Halladay, a so-so long relief guy, and a bunch of callups (who’ve replaced another bunch of callups who’ve gone down to injury).

          • Cap’n Obvious

            The thread is a re-cap thread of last nights game. *Tonight’s for me still, as I’m on PST*

        • Pat

          He’s referring to the Jays’ Current patchwork rotation.

          The Jays current rotation consists of Its Ace along with its #6, #9, and #10 Starters and its Bullpen Long Man

          #1 Halladay – In rotation
          #2 Sean Marcum – DL
          #3 Dustin MacGowan – DL
          #4 Jesse Litch – DL
          #5 Casey Jansen – DL
          #6 Scott Richmond – In rotation
          #7 David Purcey – AAA complete loss of strike zone
          #8 Ricky Romero – DL

          Bullpen Long Man – Brian Tallet – In Rotation

          #9 Bret Cecil – In Rotation
          #10 Robert Ray – In Rotation

        • Yankeegirl49

          I dont have a problem with them not beating the Roy Halladay’s of the world. Like you said, no one was gonna beat him last night. My problem is when we cannot beat the Adam Eatons of the world. No shame in losing to the best, but losing to teams 3’s 4’s & 5’s is inexcusable.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        … injures are no excuse for a team with a $200m payroll.

        I’m sorry, no. There’s no excuse for people saying there’s no excuse for injuries.

        Injuries are ALWAYS, ALWAYS a valid excuse. Whether your team has a 20M payroll or a 200M payroll. Injuries are always a valid excuse. Always.

  • Reggie C.

    Lets mention Teixeira’s 0-4 (2K) night, and give Gardner a break. Teixeira’s disappearing act remains baffling, and leaving a couple rare base runners stranded should earn him kudos from Bronx cheering section.

  • Dave M

    Kind of ironic. They’ve had the same trainer as long as I can remember. They’ve had tons of injuries for many years now. Hmmm. Maybe they should fire his a$$?

    • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Aunt Becca-Optimist Prime

      Dude their head trainer has been with them for like 30 years. He ain’t getting fired.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Forget the trainer, it’s the strength and conditioning guy if anything.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Like Chris Rock said in response to all the people questioning what unseen root causes or influences caused the kids in Columbine to start shooting:

        “What ever happened to ‘crazy’?”

      • UKYankee

        These are mostly established veteran guys….they don’t listen to any fresh advice from conditioning guys.
        Thats why the Marty Miller got fired

  • jim p

    Are there stats on the Yankees vs new-to-them pitchers? I imagine it must be something like 0-20 over the last couple of years.

    And what is that? No scouting, bad scouting, …?

  • BigBlueAL

    I remember a time when the Yankees used to face Pedro Martinez in his prime and expect to win. Nowadays they face a pitcher like Halladay and its an automatic loss.

    • jim p

      “Those Yankees aren’t these Yankees” someone once said.

    • V

      Uh…

      He never, not once, gave up more than 3 runs to the Yankees from 1999-2001 (his absolute peak). They did win some of the games, but did you really EXPECT to win??!

      They beat Halladay once last year.

      • jim p

        Pedro Martinez career vs Yankees http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/4875/splits;_ylt=At1yQsNceOdsfsAGP6SzGTGFCLcF?year=career&type=Pitching

        32 Games
        11 Won
        11 Lost
        3.20 ERA

        I can’t find how many of the ten no decisions the Yankees went on to win, but I think it was more than five.

        • V

          You do realize that I was pointing at his PEAK, not his career, no?

          Anyone who EXPECTED to beat him was out of their mind.

          • jim p

            see tomiesmithjohncarlos below on his prime years. Boston 9-14 during that time.

            And me, I did expect to win during that time. As long as we could stay close for 6 or so innings which was a reasonable expectation from our starters of that era.

            Admittedly, in the way a fan expects to win, with a little bit of trepidation mixed with the expectation, but still, Yankees 14 wins, Boston 9, (.608) in games started by Pedro during his prime.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Sox record v. Yankees in Pedro’s starts (with Pedro’s personal stats)
      1998: 1-2 (20 IP, 10 runs)
      1999: 2-0 (16 IP, 3 runs)
      2000: 1-3 (30 IP, 7 runs)
      2001: 1-5 (38 IP, 8 runs)
      2002: 3-1 (26 IP, 12 runs)
      2003: 1-3 (23.2 IP, 10 runs)

      Those numbers are pretty stingy. For the most part, we didn’t expect to beat Pedro. We expected to wait out Pedro and try to beat the soft underbelly of the Sox bullpen.

      The difference between Pedro in his prime and Halladay of today is that Pedro couldn’t really go into the 8th and 9th with regularity like Halladay can. He was amazing but never that economical.

      It may seem like blasphemy at first, but if I have one game to win, I may take late 2000’s Halladay over late 1990’s Pedro.

      • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        Blasphemy! You can have 2000s Halladay, and I’ll take late 1990s Pedro, and my team will beat your team.

        Pedro’s ERA+ from ’97-’03: 219, 163, 243, 291, 189, 202, 210

        Halladay’s best ERA+ seasons: 184 (2005), 158 (2002), 154 (2008)
        All kidding aside… Halladay’s great, but he’s not in Pedro’s class.

        • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          PS: I’m not Mexican; I’m just human.

          • Tom Zig

            new meme?

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          Ah, but Pedro of the late-90’s never had to pitch against the Red Sox offense. Halladay does.

      • Jake K

        Yeah, that does seem like blasphemy. You’re talking about a great pitcher versus arguably the greatest pitcher of all time at the height of his dominance. In his best, most recent season (2008), Halladay averaged 7.45 innings per start (ERA+ 154). In 2000, Pedro average 7.48 innings per start (ERA+ 291).

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Yeah, it’s blasphemy, you’re right.

          I’m just really impressed by Doc Holliday is all.

        • http://mantisfists.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/julius-carry-aka-shonuff.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          PS: While Halladay has more seasons with high CG totals, Pedro did have 13 CGs in 1997 (Halladay’s career high is 9).

  • http://theyankeebomber.blogspot.com Conan

    Injuries are a valid excuse. What is inexcusable is Cashman’s lack of ability to find solid bench players when his team is loaded with aging veterans. Posada, Damon, Matsui and Arod’s injuries last year should have been a wake up call.

    You have to question the GM when he starts the season with the likes of Cody Ransom, Angel Berroa, Ramiro Pena and Kevin Cash in reserve (when it wasn’t clear whether Posada would be fully recovered by opening day) for a team who’s bench was sparse and unproductive last year. Surely, this should have been addressed. Swisher was a good pickup, but not enough. Didn’t Cleveland get Mark DeRosa for a song? He could play any infield or outfield position and would have held down the fort while Arod was on the DL. Plus, he’s a contact hitter.

    It’s time Cashman feels the heat.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

      Ok. Can we stop with this already?

      Cashman had a bench, but so far the bench is either hurt or playing. When the season started, the bench consisted of Melky and/or Brett Gardner, Nick Swisher and/or Xavier Nady, Jose Molina and Cody Ransom.

      Three of those players are injured. So the Yankees are down to their secondary bench. I challenge to find a team that can replace its entire bench with another viable bench within the first six weeks of the season. It simply cannot be done. How is that Cashman’s fault?

      • http://theyankeebomber.blogspot.com Conan

        Gardner – overmatched last year
        Melky – we’ve seen his best. He sucks
        Molina – only 18 RBIs last year. Terrible.
        Ransom – career minor leaguer

        are you serious?

        • BigBlueAL

          In fairness almost any team in baseball would take a player like Melky as their 4th/5th OFer. Same with Molina as a backup C just because of his defense. Nady’s injury really is the killer for the bench.

          • http://theyankeebomber.blogspot.com Conan

            Your right about Melky – he’s a BENCH player, not a starter, although he’s been impressive lately. Whether he can sustain it, I have serious doubts. As for Molina, good back up, but Cashman should have kicked the tires on some young catchers out there. Maybe Texas’ or Arizona’s young crop.

            Again, I reiterate, Cashman didn’t know whether Posada would be able to start the season. As it is, he’s 37 years old and getting older by the minute. It’s not all about glitzy free agents in the offseason.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Again, I reiterate, Cashman didn’t know whether Posada would be able to start the season. As it is, he’s 37 years old and getting older by the minute. It’s not all about glitzy free agents in the offseason.

              This is moot. There were no alternatives available. We’d have to trade the young talent, like Hughes or the like, to find an upgrade/replacement/insurance policy for Posada.

              Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Getting better depth for Posada at C means weakining our depth elsewhere.

            • Whitey14

              BELIEVE me, there were barely any rusty free agent catchers out there this past offseason. If there had been there’s a decent chance they would have been playing in Boston!

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                The bottom of today’s lineup did suck, but we can’t play guys if they need a break. With the day off yesterday, two days off in a row do wonders for these guys.

                Exactly. If we could have found a better insurance policy for the catcher we have who is good but injury prone, some other team would have taken if from us first, because they have nothing but shitty catchers who are pathetically impotent.

                The fact that Whitey’s beloved Blue Sox are rolling with Kottaras and SuperCaptain MendozaLine should tell you all you need to know about the availability of a Posada insurance/Molina upgrade. There wasn’t any alternative to be found.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  Whoops… wrong quote in boldface.

                  Stupid cut-and-paste fail. Ignore the quote, savor the tasty morsels of knowledge underneath it.

                • Whitey14

                  Mmmmm….beefy ;-)

        • Rob H.

          Gardner as the 4th outfielder for defense and pinch runner fills one spot on the bench—not bad, exactly what you would ask for from someone on the bench.

          Melky is having a great month and a half so I don’t know how you can say he’s sucking right now. It is still yet to be seen if he can continue it going forward but for now you definitely can’t say he sucks.

          Molina is a back-up catcher whose sole job is to provide great defense when the starter needs a day off. Any offense you get out of him is a bonus.

          Ransom is the utility infielder and did a good job last season of coming in to pinch hit with a bit of power later in the season as well as being able to play multiple infield positions. Sure maybe we could find someone with a bit more pop but that’s splitting hairs.

          You left out Nady/Swisher since either one of them was also going to be on our bench. So that right there provides your good hitter off the bench.

          If you actually think we are going to have a bunch of good bench players you are nuts. There are reasons why you are a bench player….you simply aren’t that good and can’t be a starter somewhere. If you are expecting good players on the bench then I don’t know what to tell you. If everyone is healthy our bench fills every need you have for a total bench……speed(gardner/Melky), hitting(Nady/Swisher/Ransom), defense(Ransom/Molina/Gardner/Melky).

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Batshit insane.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

          Conan: You don’t seem to understand the concept of a bench. If these players were good enough to be full-time replacements, they wouldn’t be on the bench. They would be out there playing everyday, making more money for a different team.

          When you have a bench that consists of the players I named, you’re doing pretty well for yourself. You also conveniently omitted the Nick Swisher/Xavier Nady part of my rebuttal. You can’t just ignore what a healthy Xavier Nady would mean for this team’s depth.

          • http://theyankeebomber.blogspot.com Conan

            I mentioned Swisher was a good pickup. I just don’t think a team that has such a high payroll should rely on an aging SS and replace a month and a half’s worth of production from a career minor leaguer. I’m not looking for All-Stars, just some production!

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Fine.

              Since you want to criticize, all we are looking for in return is what you would have done differently.

              The bench going into the season was what it was because there were no better alternatives available.

              And, the bench would have been utterly sufficient if it hadn’t gotten injured itself. The problem isn’t that the aging ARod, Jeter, Posada, and Matsui missed time; that’s regrettable albeit understandable and probably predictable.

              The problem is, the backup plans for those guys ALSO GOT INJURED. Namely, Ransom, Molina, and Nady. Those injuries were unpredictable and crippling.

              • http://theyankeebomber.blogspot.com Conan

                I kicked around some ideas already which you shot down. DeRosa would have been a good fill in for Arod, plus push Cano to the bench against lefties, when he slumps, etc.

                One of Texas’ young catchers – I’m asking if Cashman kicked the tires.

                Swisher – good pickup.

                A guy like DeRosa and Swisher would have been a solid bench, injuries aside. I just think Cashman had to take into consideration this team’s age going into the season.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  I shot them down because they weren’t realistic.

                  We could have traded for DeRosa, but we couldn’t have traded for both DeRosa and Swisher, because it would have topped our budget. I know it seems immaterial to you, but Cashman did have a budget. That’s the same reason guys like Mike Cameron aren’t here.

                  And we did kick the tires on the Texas catchers, but once Texas started asking for young ace pitchers in return, which is what they did, we stopped asking.

                  We’re not giving up Phil Hughes for Jarrod Saltalamacchia, nor should we.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

              But that’s the thing. Do you know any players who can offer production who would volunteer to sit on a bench behind Jeter and A-Rod for less money they could find somewhere else?

              We can argue for hours about Jeter’s future, and I certainly agree that the Yanks should not be relying on him as heavily once his contract is up. But for now, the bench is a bench.

              For comparison’s sake, take a look at 1998. When the Yankees won 114 regular season games, their back-up infielders were Luis Sojo (OPS+ 37), Dale Sveum (OPS+ -3) and Homer Bush who had 78 great plate appearances. That’s just the way a bench goes in good times and in bad.

              • http://theyankeebomber.blogspot.com Conan

                Are there volunteers to sit behind Arod and Jeter? Probably not – hence, a trade, not a bargain basement signing.

                And I’m not asking for the payroll to be $300M, either. Let’s remember, Damon and Matsui’s $13M/each are coming off the books next year, too.

        • Drew

          Gardner= Always better in his second year at a level. More than worth a shot.
          Melky= Proving you wrong. Are you serious?
          Molina= Arguably the best backup in the game. Are you serious?
          Ransom= Solid player in the last month last year. No one expected much, but we expected more than what he gave, no big deal.
          Swisher and Nady on the bench regularly.
          What the heck do you want?

          • http://theyankeebomber.blogspot.com Conan

            Drew – you reap what you sow. Tonight’s lineup was a joke.

            Melky? Yeah, he’s had a nice month+. He’ll be hitting .250 by year’s end and stuck at 9 HRs. Look at his career stats. He’s regressed since his rookie year. Maybe we’ll get lucky this year.

            Molina – agree with you. Nice backup. But what about protection if Posada went down, again – which he did. Kevin Cash and a kid from AA is not protection.

            Ransom? No big deal? This isn’t KC or Minnesota. It is a big deal.

            Nady was named a starter. I’ve already commended Cashman for his 1 solid bench pickup -Swisher.

            • Drew

              In January how many games did we expect Ransom to play? 15-20? Hold judgment on Melky. I believe he was .280 in his first year, .273 in his next, not exactly a huge regression. I’m one of the few here that have had confidence in Melky since he first came up. Nady was a starter because Joe thought he saw something in the Spring.
              The bottom of today’s lineup did suck, but we can’t play guys if they need a break. With the day off yesterday, two days off in a row do wonders for these guys. Give it time, our bench, bullpen, rotation and RISP will be fine. Book it.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                The bottom of today’s lineup did suck, but we can’t play guys if they need a break. With the day off yesterday, two days off in a row do wonders for these guys.

                Thank you, Drew, for repeating that salient and important point.

                Yankee fans whining about Girardi playing this guy over that guy for a game or two is ridiculous. Guys need days off. The manager gives them days off. Sometimes, this results in a cruddy bottom of the order. There is no escape for this, this is how it’s been since the beginning of baseball.

                People need to calm down with that crap.

            • Whitey14

              Kevin Cash did back up the catcher on the Amnerican League’s runner up entry last year. He is, what he is: an adequate BACK UP. He’s capable of catching an okay game and occasionally getting an important hit. Thinking you’d go three deep at catcher when most teams struggle to go two deep is asking a bit much.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                Kevin Cash did back up the catcher on the Amnerican League’s runner up entry last year. He is, what he is: an adequate BACK UP.

                And he’s our FOURTH STRING CATCHER. Yankee fans are complaining that we didn’t have a better FOURTH STRING CATCHER. We’ve gone batshit insane.

                I never thought I’d see the day when a Red Sox fan like Whitey starts becoming the freaking voice of reason around here. Some of you pinstripe fans make me sick.

                What the hell happened to the Delta house I used to know?

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Didn’t Cleveland get Mark DeRosa for a song?

      Cleveland got Mark DeRosa because he’s making 5.5M this year, and the Cubs didn’t want to pay that for a guy who’d be a backup.

      Which is the reason we didn’t trade for him. Which is the point in all this that people miss when they pull the “Oh, Cashman can’t build a bench” argument.

      The fact that we have a big payroll makes it HARDER to build a good bench, because we’re spending so much on the starters we can’t afford many good players for the bench. Our resources are allocated more towards the starters.

      Which, frankly, is how it should be. Because those players play more. Meaning, we’re more susceptible to injuries hampering our play because there’s a big gulf between our starters and our backups. But, if we’re healthy, we’re the best team in baseball, since our starters are better than other teams’ starters.

      It’s the tradeoff.

      • http://theyankeebomber.blogspot.com Conan

        $5.5M? $5.5M? You’re telling me the Yankees couldn’t pony up a paltry sum of $5.5M? Sounds like they’re being penny-wise and pound foolish.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Sounds like you have no realistic sense of baseball economics.

          • http://theyankeebomber.blogspot.com Conan

            You’re right – $205M vs. $200M is crazy talk.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              When you’re not the one writing the checks, it seems like a pittance.

              If you were the Steins, you may have a different view of things. Particularly during a winter when a global economic collapse leaves most of your primo seats unsold.

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski

                Also, without Cash constantly prodding Hal, there was no Teixeira. Can he reasonably then go back for another $5.5 million?

  • stuart

    man the injury excuses are out in full force. they are bunk. the sux and angels and other teams have many injuries also.

    aj gets a pass because he throws 96, look at his #’s you guys love #’s/ What is his ERA so far? how about his walks per 9 innings?

    he is the fast high performance car that often breaks down, he is a tease… he is not in hallidays neighborhood as a pitcher. yea on occassion burnett will dazzle but at the end of the day what will he finsih at 15 and 12, with a 3.85 ERA!!!if we are lucky..

    tex is taking his slow start to a new level, he has been worse then bad. only guys pulling there weight are; damon, melky, and pena.. no one else is pulling there weight. there are no excuses for the worst pitvching staff in baseball.. good pitching night for this team they only gave up 5, should lower the ERA a tad..

    youkilis on the dl, midget out, and they still win….

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      The Sox are missing two of their key contributors (Dice-K, Lowrie) and just lost two more in the last week (Youkilis and Pedroia).

      We’re missing SIX of our key contributors (Posada, Wang, Nady, Molina, Bruney, Marte), just lost two more tonight (Matsui and Coke) and just got our best player back a week ago after missing the first 6 weeks of the season (ARod).

      Apples and oranges.

      • Arod, all the time

        I’ll take DiceK, Lowrie, Baldelli, Kotsay, Youk and Pedroia over those dogs in a heartbeat. Or, if you like, Lackey, Escobar, Santanna, Mosely and Guerrero.

        Like the man said, teams other than the Yankees have suffered just as much with injuries. It’s not an excuse.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Like the man said, teams other than the Yankees have suffered just as much with injuries. It’s not an excuse.

          Like I just explained to you in careful detail, no, they haven’t.

          It’s a valid excuse.

    • Drew

      Ugh.. why do you visit sites involved with the Yanks if we suck so bad. You pessimists are ridiculous.

  • BigBlueAL

    In other news I hate the Angels. Blow a 3-1 lead in the 8th vs the Red Sox plus cost Jared Weaver and my fantasy team a win!!!

  • stuart

    ramirez is 4 and 0 for the sux with a .50 + era, for coco crisp there 2nd CF.. what a steal….we have 3 reliable pen arms; bruney, cike, and mo. then we have 4 or 5 5+ ERA guys.. If the pen was better they could any someone to the bench….

  • stuart

    the angel pen may actually be worse then ours and that is hard to be…………………shields looks terrible, he stunk end of last year and has kept that up…

  • Simon

    Does anyone else think that Girardi leaves his starters in for too long? A good start seems to get spoiled by a bad late inning. Granted today it might not have mattered but it’s happened with C.C. and A.J. once before.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Granted today it might not have mattered but it’s happened with C.C. and A.J. once before.

      Meaning, by your count, it’s happened three times now.

      So no, I don’t think these three times means “Girardi leaves his starters in too long”.

  • BigBlueAL

    WOW just read this stat. In his last 19 starts (dating back to May 23, 2003) vs the Yankees Halladay is 13-2 with a 2.09 ERA. Shit!!

  • stuart

    aj the supposed horse had 80 or so pitches in the 8th before he gave up 2 addtl runs.

    managers can’t win, when the players fail it is the managers fault when a move pays off it does not even get mentioned.

  • stuart

    halliday is the epitome of an ace.. we have 2 potetnial aces; cc and joba.. we will see how they perform, you figure for $20 mill or so a year CC could maybe turn into one, he was for 1/2 a season last year…..

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

      If by half, you mean five out of six months, then yeah you’re right. Did you watch Friday’s start, by the way?

      • Drew

        Ben, don’t let facts work their way into debates. You know better!

  • DCR

    Is anyone really surprised that Matsui and Posada are hurt? The only injury that was unfathomable was Nady. This team is old and is in pretty deep trouble considering our GM is incompetent.

    • Drew

      Yeah Posada is hurt all the time. Dude hasn’t had a season in which he’s been healthy. Ugh..

      • DCR

        What are you ‘ughing’? Coming into this season people didn’t even know if Posada would be able to catch everyday or even be ready for opening day. You’re honestly going to sit there and claim you thought Po would be 100% all year?

        • Drew

          I knew he wouldn’t start 140 games. Did I think he’d have a hamstring injury? No.

          • DCR

            It doesn’t matter what type of injury it is. Hes still hurt. I seem to remember Posada missing time, but not going on the DL, in 2006 with a hamstring issue. This lead to Kelly Stinnett seeing starting time for a week or so.

            • Drew

              Word I remember the Stinnett stint. With age, we don’t expect him to go 135+. Hey, if this is his only setback then we’re ahead of schedule IMO. Hopefully the shoulder continues to strengthen.

              • DCR

                I want Po to be healthy and I think that his shoulder will hold up. I am just worried about whats going to happen to the team when Posada and Damon’s deals run out. Theres still a lot of time left but Jackson is striking out way too much for my liking. He also isn’t hitting for very much power or walking a lot. So you almost have to entertain bringing Damon back. Hes hitting the cover off the ball and plays a good LF in a market where 30 year old Matt Holiday (who so far appears to be a Coors product) is the best free agent outfielder.

                Cash really screwed up when he got Nady instead of Bay.

                • Drew

                  Bay came at a high price. Jose, Ross and Karstens wouldn’t get it done. Damon will be back next year splitting his time at DH with JoPo and filling in at the corner OF positions, that’s my guess anyway. Crawf will be a trade guy, too rich for us. We may grab Bay or Holli.
                  Why are you worried about when Jorgie’s contract runs out?

                • DCR

                  Whose going to catch? All our catching prospects, minus Cervelli, are far away from the majors.

                • Drew

                  Couple years. Who knows what it holds? Too early for me to seriously consider. Hey, maybe Mauer will be a Yankee and Jesus will switch positions. Plus, he’s only 2 years out after this season. Just wait it out. No need to think about that stuff right now.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  Cash really screwed up when he got Nady instead of Bay.

                  No, he didn’t, he was smart to get Nady instead of Bay, because Nady only cost one semi elite prospect in Tabata. Bay would have cost Hughes, Joba, Montero, or somethng on that level.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski

                  Manny, Hansen, Moss, and $7 million is exactly what the Sox spent to get Bay.

                • Whitey14

                  And so far, worth every penny. No room for Moss and Hansen, so they’re not missed. No more headaches from Manny in the clubhouse and refusing to play in critical series so as I said then, thanks for the contributions, but go darken somebody else’s doorstep for awhile.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  Just wait for that unsustainable early production to start dropping, Whitey. Bay has never been this good before, ever.

                • Whitey14

                  I actually addressed this on Monday or Tuesday when somebody mentioned “contract year”. If he finishes the season around .300-30-100 and continues to be a far superior defensive leftfielder and baserunner than Manny is/was I’ll be quite happy.

                  I’m not expecting Manny-type production at the plate over the course of the season, but I feel like not having Manny’s bullshit around, coupled with the solid, QUIET, contributions of Jason Bay will continue to make this a win/win situation in my mind.

                  You’d have to agree that he’s done a nice job of adapting to Boston and the park is a good fit for him. Hopefully they can work out a nice deal to keep him around for few seasons.

  • Frank Fernandez

    We stink at every level of the organization, on the field and in the front office, with its player development failures and craptastic new Stadium. I’m feeling another 1978-1996-style championship drought. George has driven this team into a ditch before, now it’s the kids’ turn.

    That puts us nine years or so away from another title. Sounds about right; in nine years, we will finally be out from under the A-Rod contract and a new generation of homegrown players could be coming into their prime on the field. Maybe, in the interim, the owners will be banned for incompetence or for spying on people who refuse to spend $50K-$100K per year to watch overpaid, mediocre teams and eat branded hamburgers.

    In the name of Joe Cowley, Mel Hall and Stump Merrill, this will be ugly, Yankee fans. It hasn’t been all sweetness and light from SteinbrennerLand and we’re headed into the abyss again. For you kids out there, it will be time to prove your devotion. We’ll see the best of you on the other side.

    • http://eastrutherfordrant.com donttradecano

      i stopped reading after drought.

    • daniel vutran

      AGREED!

  • http://www.twitter.com/MatthewHarris84 Matt H

    Couple thoughts on the game:

    1) Burnett keep shaving great stuff, and usually implodes in one inning. This time it was little little bombs in 2 different innings.

    2) Kevin Cash cost a run on an absolute seed thrown by Melky…wonder if all the other Yankee outfields thought to themselves “whoa, that’s possible?”.

    3) And while Pena can really hit, wow, that kid can flat out field at short. I love Jeter, but fuck, this kid made it look easy out there.

    The Yanks continue to not hit consistently, but then again Doc Halladay was out there, so I’m not sure the 1927 Yanks could muster much.

    They need to take the next 2…

    • V

      +1 on Pena

      I want this kid to be the utility infielder for the next 6 years.

  • jonathan

    Everyone is concerned about the future….with good reason….but can anyone please explain to me what the deal is with Tex, and dont give me “hes a slow starter” or “a second half guy”. He is currently hitting .192, Brett Gardener has a better batting average than her does yet we dont keep sending him out there everyday. The season is 1 fifth of the way threw and our 20 million dollar starting first baseman is hitting .192 and looks completely lost out there. I think we need to get Miranda up here for days we are facing righties…

    • V

      Are you paying him?

      • Evan

        No, we are watching him. Guy is painful to watch at the plate. I swear he watches strike 3 go by on the outside corner at least once a game. He needs to pick it up, fast. This is the guy who is supposed to be carrying us through our injuries. He is one of the last guys I want to see up at this point with RISP.

        • V

          Then stop watching him.

          • Evan

            You are full of wonderful solutions. Thank you, V.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski

      “and dont give me “hes a slow starter” or “a second half guy”. ”

      Sorry, that’s all you’re going to get at this point, unless you want someone to say “he sucks and he always has sucked because putting up numbers in Texas and Atlanta and Anaheim isn’t the same as New York.” Which, I’m sure, you could find a few people to say.

      It’s a bit much, though, to suggest that Miranda come up and take the majority of the at bats. One start, maybe. But the majority of the at bats (which he’d get if he faced righties)? Come on. Unless you honestly feel that Mark Teixeira got incredibly lucky over the first six years of his career and actually sucked this whole time, it’s a bit overboard.

      • Yankeegirl49

        Not “a bit” overboard…a LOT overboard.

        • Jim

          I think Yankees fans need a little prospect profile in their lives or something. I know I could. A hug would also be nice

      • Evan

        Having Miranda take the majority of the ABs is silly. But I think something needs to be done because our #3 hitter has not beed doing anything as of late. I know it’s still early, but at some point that has to stop being an excuse. When we are racing down the stretch in August and September, we might look back and say, what if we picked up one or two more wins early in the season. I don’t want it to come to that, but these games are important believe it or not.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      …but can anyone please explain to me what the deal is with Tex, and dont give me “hes a slow starter” or “a second half guy”.

      I’d be happy to explain what the deal is with Tex.

      He’s a slow starter and a second half guy. No, really. Look for yourself.

      Mark Teixeira year by year splits:

      2003 April-May 15th – .236/.337/.371 (.707)
      2003 May 15th-season end – .264/.330/.502 (.832)

      2004 April-May 15th – .213/.352/.440 (.792)
      2004 May 15th-season end – .291/.373/.579 (.951)

      2005 April-May 15th – .259/.320/.456 (.775)
      2005 May 15th-season end – 315/.398/.613 (1.011)

      2006 April-May 15th – .270/.359/.432 (.791)
      2006 May 15th-season end – .285/.375/.540 (.915)

      2007 April-May 15th – .279/.361/.469 (.831)
      2007 May 15th-season end – .317/.416/.602 (1.018)

      2008 April-May 15th – .247/.341/.411 (.752)
      2008 May 15th-season end – .329/.432/.600 (1.033)

      2009 April-May 15th – .191/.328/.418 (.747)
      2009 May 15th-season end – ???

      He’ll be fine. He’s adjusting. It’s harder here because this is the biggest pressure to perform he’s ever faced, but give him time, he’ll be fine.

      I think we need to get Miranda up here for days we are facing righties…

      That would be a huge overreaction and ridiculously shortsighted.

      • jonathan

        I think that he needs to sit a couple of games if face a righty. How about we put Swisher at 1st and call up Todd Linden? The fact is that we need him now, Swisher has offically cooled off…we are completely wasting johnny damons production with Tex batting behind him…he is a great big hole in our lineup full of holes. What if Matsui cant play…we are running out of bodies to put on the field.

        Rest Tex: With Tex:
        Jeter SS Jeter
        Damon LF Damon
        Swisher 1B Swisher RF
        Arod 3B Arod
        Matsui DH Cano
        Cano 2B Tex
        Melky CF Matsui
        Linden RF Melky
        Catchers spot Catcher spot

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Jonathan, I’m all for bringing up Miranda or Linden to provide better depth, a better bench, and give Tex a day off or two.

          But we’re not going to bench Tex with any regularity. I’m talking about playing Miranda and giving Tex a day off like once or twice a MONTH, not once or twice a WEEK.

          We’re just going to have to ride this out with Tex. Keep playing him, he’ll start hitting. The strategy is no grander than that.

  • Yanks27

    Tex is pressing. Change him around in the order to relax him. Maybe bat him second in front of Damon and behind Jeter. Just a thought. Someone else use to use the number 2 spot in the lineup to get guys going. Seemed to work.

    I still think they will be fine as long as they can hang in the race until they get healthy. The schedule breaks now in the favor of the Yanks. If the injuries continue they’ll continue to have problems. They are one hot streak away from weathering the storm. 4 vs Twins at home–3 Bal at home then 3 vs Phillies at home. Get the next 2 in Toronto and go 8-2 on the homestand and everything will look a lot better. 10 of 12 would do wonders. I think it’s possible.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Tex is pressing. Change him around in the order to relax him. Maybe bat him second in front of Damon and behind Jeter. Just a thought. Someone else use to use the number 2 spot in the lineup to get guys going. Seemed to work.

      No, I don’t want to mess with his comfort level. Leave him in the 3 hole.

      The whole point here is to get him through his nervous adjustment period and his annual slow start so he can begin to mash like he always does. I’d rather show him consistency of faith than show him urgency of panic.

    • Evan

      Thus far, the Blue Jays and Red Sox have had the two easiest schedules in baseball so far. Let’s hope the Yankees turn the tide with their upcoming schedule. The key is to continue to win series.

  • LiveFromNewYork

    In the beginning of the year we had too many players. Now we have too little. I think that if this team ever finds a middle ground, we might actually be good.

    When is everyone: Bruney, Posada, Molina, Wang, Matsui, Jeter, etc etc etc coming back? I’d like to see what a healthy team can do.

    It would be nice if Tex and Arod started mashing but I think that there are issues that even a hot Tex and a hot Arod (at the same time) would fail to overcome and then we would think that it, like Damon’s recent performance, is just wasted.

    • Evan

      I don’t think we can expect ARod to be ARod for another couple of weeks. He looks sluggish in the d=field and he is not running at 100%. With that said, he is still a HR threat and a definate upgrade from what we have seen thus far at 3B. But I still think it will be a couple of weeks before he is the player we are used to seeing. Tex needs to step it up and shoulder some of the load. Now would be a good time to start.

  • Rob in CT

    The injuries are crazy right now.

    Starting Catcher (and, at that point, one of the best hitters on the club)
    Backup Catcher
    Starting SS (how bad is it?)
    Backup (had been starting) corner OF
    Starting DH
    #2/3 starter
    #1 setup reliever
    #2 setup/lefty matchup guy
    #4 setup/lefty matchup guy
    Original backup INF (sadly, this was actually a plus)
    Plus only recently getting the starting 3B back after missing a month.

    This is a disaster. The only unexpected bright spots, for me, have been Swisher, Melky and Cano.

    Do you call up Jackson (demote Gardner) and DH Damon until Matsui or Nady is back?

    Teixiera… I saw a comparison of his OPS to this point and his OPS to the same points of earliers seasons, and it was basically the same number. An ugly number, to be sure, but I’m holding on to hope that he will go apeshit on the league soon.

    • Rob in CT

      Heh, as I was typing my post, Tommiereallylongname provided the OPS comparison.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        I give because I love.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      The injuries are crazy right now.

      Agreed, it’s been brutal. We’re pretty snakebit.

      Do you call up Jackson (demote Gardner) and DH Damon until Matsui or Nady is back?

      I still think it’s too early for that. I’d rather wait until the summer and bring AJax up in the middle of a Jul hot streak. I would demote Gardner and bring up Todd Linden, though, I think he’d have value.

      Teixiera… I saw a comparison of his OPS to this point and his OPS to the same points of earliers seasons, and it was basically the same number. An ugly number, to be sure, but I’m holding on to hope that he will go apeshit on the league soon.

      Yup, I broke it down above.

  • JP

    Old team = more injuries. I don’t care who your trainers and conditioning coaches are, when you’re 36 years old and have been pounding your body on a baseball diamond for 18 straight years, you’re going to suffer injuries.

    The Yankees in the 1950s knew how to cut players loose when they were getting too old, and they knew it was better to cut them a year early rather than a year late.

    It’s a different system today, and long term contracts can stifle a team. Much is made of the Yankees “$200M payroll” but that can be an albatross just as much as it can be an advantage. Yes, being able to spend that much means you have lots of star players. But the players who command those salaries are already in or past the prime of their career, and getting them means long term deals, such that if they underperform, you’re stuck with them.

    If the Yankees hadn’t given Jeter such a long term deal, maybe they could have leaned on him to switch to the OF sooner. Ramiro Pena isn’t supposed to be a good hitter, but how long does he have to keep hitting .280 at the MLB level, and playing good D, before we decide he should be playing regularly? See, we don’t have that option, because of all the stars.

    I watched Cano and Pena turn the DP last night and it was the best looking DP turning I’ve seen at SS by the Yankees in years.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Old team = more injuries. I don’t care who your trainers and conditioning coaches are, when you’re 36 years old and have been pounding your body on a baseball diamond for 18 straight years, you’re going to suffer injuries.

      Yankees average age of 30 most key contributors: 28.88 years old

      http://riveraveblues.com/2009/05/game-32-spillover-thread-ii-11639/#comment-380452

      We’ve had some injuries to the old gang of ARod, Jeter, and Posada. That’s to be expected.

      We’ve also had injuries to the younger and healthier gang of Nady (30), Bruney (27), Wang (29), Kennedy (24), and Coke (26). Not sure how you predict or pre-plan for those injuries.

      • Evan

        The injuries have been absolutely brutal. All we can do at this point is put the best product out there and hope to keep our heads above water until mid-June (hopefully) when we have the majority of our guys back (Wang, Bruney, Nady, Posada, ARod @ 100%). I’m sure we will be fine. We have become a slow starting team, but we always seem to be right there in the end. It’s hard to rely on that notion at this point, but you gotta have faith. The Yanks will pull through.

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  • John (NY)

    There is no quick fix. But if there are a few, here it is:

    Ship Gardner to Scranton and send up Linden. Gardner needs an adjustment. Linden can hold it down for a while.

    Seriously start looking at coaching- The Yanks are dead last in ERA. Eiland? Is it time to see what’s going on there?

    Bring Miranda up and DFA Berroa- Angel, you’re useless. Miranda can give Tex a day or two to get his head clear and be a nice bat off the bench.

    Seriously start investigating the injuries- You can’t ignore it!

    Draft– We need positional players badly.

    • Evan

      Garner is not useless. He is a necessary 4th OF at this point until Nady returns and he can be used as a pinch runner when we need to steal a bag or have a slow guy score from second on a single.

      Agree 100% with the Berroa comment. When was the last time this guy played? With ARod back in the line-up and Pena on the bench, he is virtually useless. Bring up Miranda and let him be used as a PH or to give Tex a break.

      At some point the pitching staff has to be looked at, but the biggest problem right now is the walks. These guys need to attack the zone more and stop issuing all of these free passes. Walks lead to higher pitch counts early in the game, which leads to showing our weak bullpen in the 6th inning. Our guys need to go deeper into games. Simple as that.

      Injuries happen, they are part of the game. We just have been hit extremely bad this year. Let’s hope this is the majority of it and we can play healthy baseball from mid-June on out. I would rather have this happen now, when we have a lot of time to recover from it, than have this happen in the end of July and are trying to limp into the playoffs.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

        Garner is not useless. He is a necessary 4th OF at this point until Nady returns and he can be used as a pinch runner when we need to steal a bag or have a slow guy score from second on a single.

        Or in other words, he’s useless. The Yanks could bring up someone who could hit better than Gardner, and considering that the Yanks have used him zero times as a late-inning pinch-running, I don’t think they’ll miss him.

        • Evan

          Gritt Grittner, c’mon people!

          Yea, I guess you’re right.

  • P O’neil

    for Cashman to still have a job is beyond me. belatran would look pretty good in center right now. derosa would have been a great pickup. everytime the yankees have an injury that position turns into a blackhole. He has had suffice time to get things turned around and he has failed. most yankee fans knew before the season the bullpen was going to be a weakness, and he did nothing about it. How does he not realize this. The problem w/ this team is the upper management

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski

      The bullpen is the biggest red herring at this point. Notice how they’ve been remarkably better since the starters started sucking less. Now that the starter are going 6+ every time out, the bullpen has stabilized considerably — and that’s with all the injuries.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

      Beltran was a Steinbrenner decision through and through. George wanted Randy Johnson and got him. You can’t hold Cash’s feet to the fire for that one.

  • P O’neil

    the yankees are turning into the oakland raiders just in a better division

  • P O’neil

    i agree that alot of the moves the yankees made were not based entirely on cashmans decisions, but what has he done in the last few years besides bidding on top free agents.