Comments on: Projecting Robinson Cano

By: mtrico

mtrico — Sun, 17 May 2009 22:24:31 +0000

Down below .300 now. Just sayin’.

By: JP

JP — Thu, 14 May 2009 09:55:26 +0000

I really didn’t think my initial post was accusatory. It was more of a observation on the fact that this has become a constant refrain regarding Cano.

I don’t know how you can have one without the other, Moshe. You want to have the satisfaction of pointing out the possible racial injustice toward Cano, by calling attention to someone’s statements. Then, you wish to be absolved of the responsbility of having called that person a racist. You’re saying, basically, “I’m not saying YOU are a racist, but lots of racist people say things like that!” LIke Mike said below, it is really difficult to defend oneself against an accusation of being unknowingly racist, and it’s unfair to have to do so, especially when the comments had no literal tinge of racism, whatsoever.

I didn’t write “Cano has a poor work ethic, typical of Latino players.” (In fact, my initial comments didn’t even mention work ethic, I merely suggested he could be falling back into old habits…again something was inovked that wasn’t specifically said…). There is a difference between pointing out someone’s lack of plate discipline and generalizing toward his entire work ethic, let alone the work ethic of all Latinos. But just the spectre of a comment about something related to Robbie’s work ethic makes someone responsible for the racist statements and motives of every other person on earth?

I think it has been too easy for people to call out racism, and not be held responsible for doing it. If someone wants to claim the moral high ground and go around pointing out what they think is bad behavior, they should be ready to deal with the accused defending themselves.

By: thurdonpaul

thurdonpaul — Wed, 13 May 2009 23:42:53 +0000

i want to see every Yankee run hard at all times, whether they are green purple black latino or white, color means nothing to me, i want guys that hustle and play hard

By: Moshe Mandel

Moshe Mandel — Wed, 13 May 2009 22:50:49 +0000

Thanks, Mondesi, it was a good read. That was why I was a bit apprehensive to make the initial point- eventually, most discussions about race become less about the actual issue and more about whether people are being dubbed racially insensitive unfairly. But I think this went better than I expected. It’s a touchy subject, to be sure.

By: Mike HC

Mike HC — Wed, 13 May 2009 22:50:36 +0000

You did. You made your point very rationally and it is not completely off base. I just think that nobody here was being racist, or unknowingly racist, yet your comments implied that they were. You might be talking about other people in general, but it does not seem that way.

By: tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside — Wed, 13 May 2009 22:42:20 +0000

Sorry, I know racism exists. It exists at all levels of society, and exists in every possible direction. But it is wrong to invoke it casually. It is slanderous. The irresponsible use of the concept stirs up the same sort of hatred that actual racism does.

Agreed.

I didn’t invoke it casually. I believe I did a good job of invoking my concerns with care and precision.

By: JP

JP — Wed, 13 May 2009 22:38:54 +0000

Your argument is relative–it can just as easily apply to your position. You suggest that people project their latent racism into their observation and evaluation of a Latino ball player. ARen’t you doing the same thing–projecting your idea that much of the country (or the whaite baseball fan community, or whatever…) is racist onto peoples’ comments about ballplayers?

Or, to use your language, you may think you see latent racism in the comments about a latino player’s work ethic, but you’re simply parroting the same racism/discrimination dogma that has been preached in the US for the last 4 decades. We are all presumed racists, wherever the concept can be invoked, with no requirement for anyone to prove anything. Guilty until proven innocent.

By: Mike HC

Mike HC — Wed, 13 May 2009 22:33:20 +0000

I agree with JP here. Many people are racist. There is no doubt. But I don’t think anyone on this board has shown any veiled racism. Every critique written here about Cano has been legitimate, and saying it is veiled racism when critiquing a Latino player is nonsense. Posada got upset at Swisher when Swish celebrated pitching a scoreless inning. Was Posada showing veiled racism towards white players? These are individual characteristics that are being pointed out. Turning the debate into a question of whether someone is being racist while not even knowing it, is a cop out. How can a person defend themselves when you claim they are being unknowingly being racist? Just like it is ridiculous to claim that you are unknowingly being racist for pointing out that someone else is being racist. It is never ending and it is part of the larger problem that everything is shaded by race.

By: JP

JP — Wed, 13 May 2009 22:23:49 +0000

You can’t prove that…got any data to back up that “rarely” part? How do you know it isn’t your own racial bias that “hears” things like this relative to a latino player, but not relative to a white player? You are doing nothing more than projecting your ideas about people’s collective racism onto their comments about baseball players. I can’t prove there isn’t racism, but you can’t point to a comment about someone like Cano and blithely conclude it’s racism.

By: The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

The Honorable Congressman Mondesi — Wed, 13 May 2009 22:16:54 +0000

Moshe – Check this out:

http://yglesias.thinkprogress......racism.php

(DISCLAIMER: I’m not accusing anyone here of ANYTHING, I just thought this was an interesting blog-post and it’s somewhat related to the topic we’re discussing, and I thought Moshe might want to read it.)