Yanks grit out win against Jays

SWB's offensive woes continue
A tale of two Swishers

With the Yanks 2-7 in their last nine games, any kind of win last night would have felt good. The Yankees did us one better, winning in a convincing manner and getting production from all around the lineup. Best of all, they beat up on a pitcher they have never seen before, who was actually pitching well. Thoroughly enjoyable game all around.

Things started off a bit shaky in the first. After Mark Teixeira ripped his first single since May 6, A-Rod walked to put him in scoring position. Yet Robinson Cano, hitting .186 with runners in scoring position coming into the game, flied out. And so continued the team’s futility with runners in scoring position.

The bottom of the first can be summed up thusly: If I told you that Andy Pettitte would walk three Blue Jays in the inning and allow only one run, would you believe me? I don’t think I’d believe me. But it happened. The run scored in maddeningly frustrating fashion, which made it all the worse. In the end, considering the circumstances, one run wasn’t all that bad.

Then, in the second, something amazing happened. Something glorious. The Yanks put together a rally, and it started with the bottom of the order. It actually started with the sixth hitter, but under normal circumstances Melky will hit much lower, so we’ll just call it bottom of the order, mmmmkay? After he doubled, Brett Gardner put every ounce of grit and heart and hard work behind a swing and deposited a ball just over the 328 ft. sign in right. Gardner’s first career homer gave the Yanks a 2-1 lead.

As if things could get stranger, Ramiro Pena followed that with a triple. Then, after a Frankie Cervelli ground out, Johnny Damon hit yet another triple. Mark Teixeira poured it on with another hit, this one a double, giving him a 2-2 start to the night. Finally, after an A-rod walk, Robinson Cano came up in the exact situation as the previous inning: first and second, two out. Only this time his team was up 4-1. Once he put a ball in right field, it was 5-1.

While big innings are quite fun — and good for the nerves — we’ve seen the Yanks post a few of them this season, yet we haven’t seen the kind of consistent offensive output one would expect from a serious contender. So it came as a relief when Tex hit a sac fly in the fourth to plate the Yanks’ sixth run of the game. Things got even brighter in the fifth, when a Robinson Cano leadoff double led to two more runs, including a triple by Gardner. Looks like the kid wants to play. Too bad Melky is going so well right now.

The game wasn’t exactly smooth sailing for Pettitte, but he got the job done for six innings. After the three walks in the first he allowed only one the rest of the game. The only real trouble he ran into after the first was in the fourth, when the Jays mounted something of a two-out rally which was kickstarted by a Scott Rolen “oops” infield single. Six innings, two runs. The Yanks will take it almost every time from Pettitte.

Get this: a Blue Jay doubled to lead off in three innings last night. None of them came around to score. That’s Scutaro in the third, Rolen in the sixth, and Wells in the eighth. Each time the Yanks pitchers — Pettitte and Al Aceves — were able to retire the subsequent Jays in order. Pettitte benefitted from a caught stealing in the third. While you’d like not to see the leadoff double in the first place, that’s a good job of the Yanks tonight of bearing down and not letting it hurt them.

The only downer of the night was Nick Swisher, who did not join the Yanks onslaught. His 0 for 5 night extended his slump to 3 for his last 30. Despite this, he still has an OPS of .956. That’s how awesome Nick Swisher is. Want to see another reason Nick Swisher is awesome:

click for full size

While Nick Swisher has actually hit .143/.208/.333 over the last seven days, ESPN.com has him at .333/.429/.750. Apparently, they took his awesomeness factor into consideration.

CC gets a chance to follow up his brilliant performance from last Friday. He’ll oppose reliever-turned-starter Brian Tallet. After last night’s win, this one I’m looking forward to.

SWB's offensive woes continue
A tale of two Swishers
  • cult of basebaal

    and Boston just got URP’d by that mighty tailor and slayer of giants, Matt Palmer.

    good night all around …

    • http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/e6omir.gif OmgZombies

      Wow @ none of Bostons pitchers having a ERA under 4. Great play all round. If bottom of the lineup starts hitting anywhere near as good as tonight then a winning streak is coming.

      • whozat

        If the top starts hitting like it should, that’d be enough.

  • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

    Matt Palmer vs. BOS: CG, 5 H, 4 R/ER, 2 BB, 8 K, retired final 19 batters faced.

    Be honest, that’s the line most of you were expecting from Scott Richmond tonight, wasn’t it? Have faith, you bastards.

    • jonathan

      Hey faith is great, but its times like this that I love to be proven wrong. I did expect a similar line from Richmond.

  • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

    Does the fact that Brett Gardner now has more home runs than David Ortiz make him any less gritty?

    • ClayBuchholzLovesLaptops

      No, it makes him a juicer and a cheater.

      • RollingWave

        he is prematurely bald …. so…

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          My ears are burning…

          Sincerely,
          Dustin Pedroia

  • Dan2

    I didn’t even think of that, but the fact that Gardner has more HRs than Papi is hilarious.

    All around a great win today. I wonder when the last time the Yankees had 3 triples in a game was?

    • John

      April 3, 2003

  • dkidd

    cc wins tomorrow to take a second straight series, then home to erase the memory of the last homestand

    the tide is turning

  • Jack The Flipper

    Has Swisher really struck out 35 times in only 32 games ? Wow, that is shocking.

    • Tony

      Not if you watch the games

      • andrew

        Or if you knew that he is prone to strike outs. The more pitches you take, the more 2 strike counts you hit in, the more you strike out.

    • JP

      That’s not necessarily bad. Not only the fact that he’s 3-2 alot, but Ks don’t lead to DPs…

      • JeffG

        Jeter has ruined our minds…

        They also don’t move runners over or lead to RBI’s.

  • DCR

    Good win tonight. Really surprised that Andy stuck around as long as he did with the start he got off to.

  • yankees=warriors

    Last night’s game was really nice, but if I REALLY have to pick something…what’s with Pena?
    It’s great that he’s actually getting hits, but 3 errors in 2 or 3 games? I’m sure he didn’t make that many errors through the first half of the season in the minors last year. Is he feeling the pressure?

    • DCR

      Hes made some great plays in the field that definitely cancel out those errors.

      • yankees=warriors

        You’re right. Maybe my expectation for him is too high.

        • whozat

          Or maybe he misjudged a couple of balls because he’s never really played on turf before.

          That said…if your expectation is more than “defense first UT infielder”…yes, your expectation is too high.

          • yankees=warriors

            Yes, I didn’t know that was the first time he’s playing on turf, I should have taken that into consideration.

            And, no, I don’t expect him to be more than that. But that’s just the thing, isn’t it? He’s supposed to be the defensive whiz!
            I wasn’t comparing his defense with Jeter when I said his defense was bad, because it’s more than obvious that Jeter’s defense is abysmal. I was comparing Pena with his usual, HIGH standard.
            And so by “high expectation”, I meant I might have impossible projections of his ability when it comes to defense.

    • whozat

      He’s a rookie, and playing his first games on turf. He also has way better range than Jeter, and the increased opportunities means more chances for mistakes.

      Why does everything have to have some Big Psychological Explanation? A guy doesn’t hit with RISP for a month? OMG he can’t handle the pressure of NY!!! A guy muffs a couple plays…he’s feeling the pressure! A guy comes up with a couple of key hits? HE’S SO CLUTCH!!!!

      A lot of baseball is random. Pitchers can control the location, velo and movement on their pitches. Hitters can avoid swinging at pitches out of the strike zone, and time pitches to make solid contact with those they can reach. Fielders can position themselves according to spray charts, judge balls in play, and use their native speed, agility and arm strength to make plays on those balls. Most of the rest is luck.

      • andrew

        A lot of baseball is random, but a lot of baseball is psychological as well. As much as some people would love to believe that numbers can explain everything, there are often factors that go beyond the numbers. Pena may just be having a rough couple games, or maybe he is feeling the pressure a little bit. I’m not going to compare Pena to Knoblach or Ankiel, but those two guys clearly had psychological issues that prevented them from executing their baseball talents. Pena is clearly not at that level and he shouldn’t be in the same sentence with them, but it just shows that it’s not impossible for a player to be feeling the pressure.

        At the same time, Pena’s range when compared to Jeter’s is overwhelming. I can see it with my own eyes!! Pena is a defensive upgrade over Jeter even with a botched play or two in there.

        • whozat

          Yes, I know that there are extreme cases like Chuck et al. But rookie mistakes like judging a hop on turf wrong, or rushing a throw, or checking where the runner is before you have the ball in your glove are just a much simpler explanation than “he can’t handle the pressure”, you know? Especially when the kid has already played a bunch of games at the big league level — out of position, no less! Why would he be feeling the pressure NOW, in Toronto of all places?

          And I do also think that there are some people who respond better to pressure than others. However, I also think that this effect is dominated by other factors like talent and luck, once you get to the big-league level. These guys have ALL faced pressure and failure, and they have ALL persevered through it.

          • andrew

            Well maybe this is our problem right here… I believe most “rookie mistakes” are attributed to nervousness/pressure in some way. He’s relatively inexperienced, and if you call them rookie mistakes, i will agree, but i will just say that the root of many/most rookie mistakes is from trying too hard/overthinking/other forms of pressure

    • JP

      Nothing’s with Pena. Rookies make more errors. First series playing there, getting used to the hops, whatever. Maybe he is a little nervous.

      He’s much better at SS than Jeter is. It isn’t even close. The fact that he’s hitting decently is a surprise. I’m sure the pundits will tell us it can’t last; a career .250 minor league hitter with no power isn’t going to become Cal Ripken with the Yankees.

      Ozzie Smith was a poor offensive player when he came up. By the middle of his career, he’d learned to be pretty good offensively.

      Pena probably isn’t Ozzie Smith with the glove (how many guys are?), but writing him off as a UT player is a mistake, I think.

      How many 23 year olds are the Yankees going to find who are capable of playing good D at shortstop and contributing on offense? Right now, Pena is the only one. If he continues at this level, or even a bit below it offensively, he could be a very big part of the Yankees this year and next.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Ramiro Peña career minor league line – .258/.316/.319

        Sure, he could keep hitting. But I severely doubt it.

  • Dan

    “Looks like the kid wants to play. Too bad Melky is going so well right now.”

    It’s laughable that someone pushing 26 is still referred to as a kid. Though not nearly as ridiculous as actually lamenting the very solid play of a Yankee that happens to be drastically outperforming said “kid.”

    You Gardner fanboys are something else.

    Only on RAB.

    • yankees=warriors

      I don’t have a preference between Gardner and Melky, I just want one to constantly perform well to help the Yankees.
      But it is amazing sometimes when they bash Melky the way they do, and get so high on everything Gardner does, when Melky is actually younger than Gardner…

      • whozat

        Um…do you guys actually READ the articles on this website?

        The RAB authors are not a bunch of Gardner fanbois. At all. Just the other day, Mike wrote a whole post about how Melky’s start has made him “cautiously optimistic”. They advocated giving Gardner a chance coming into the year because, you know, Melky has performed consistently worse each year he’s been in the majors, culminating with a truly awful 2008.

        What’s amazing to me is that you are willing to forget that awful 2008 after a hot month in 2009…as though he didn’t start 2008 the same exact way.

        Gardner has been terrible. He got a shot, and Girardi is playing Melky over him because Melky is playing way, way better right now. The authors (and regulars) here have lauded him for playing the hot hand, and think it’s the right thing to do.

        • andrew

          Amen, whozat.

          • Tony

            I don’t think many people really care whether Melky or Garner is the CF. The preference for Gardner simply came about because we KNOW Melky sucks and don’t KNOW that Gardner sucks, since Gardner has had about a month of MLB playing time. And personally, I assume they both suck, but I’d rather have a crappy fast guy than a crappy guy with average speed.

            Melky has looked good for the last 4-5 weeks, but he looked good for 4-5 weeks last year and rounded into the worst player in all of baseball. Excuse my skepticism.

            • John R

              Isn’t Melky actually younger than Gardner?

              • Andy In Sunny Daytona

                A full year younger.

        • yankees=warriors

          Actually, I read all their articles, and I don’t think I was being unfair to them when I said that. I wasn’t even criticizing them, just making an observation.

          The reason I say they may simply like Gardner more is because everytime Melky does something good, they question whether that is legit and how long it’s going to last. Close to no praise for the Melk man.
          Not so for Brett. Though Ben did say Gardner suck the other day, seems like everytime Gardner does ONE measly thing right, they’re back on his bandwagon. You don’t hear them say that’s a fluke or any other negative stuff.

          Why the different treatment? Unless a Yankee is personally hateful (like Sheffield), I cheer for them all the same. Just because Melky failed last year doesn’t mean he’ll fail this year. Every season is a clean slate for every player, and since Melky and Gardner are all we’ve got now, might as well cheer both of them on, instead of wishing for Gardner to replace Melky.

          • JP

            Why the different treatment?

            Mmehhhhh…I don’t think it’s really different treatment. Baseball fans are “what have you done for me lately” types, so it’s natural to get psyched over Gardner getting a couple of hits.

            You hear plenty of cheers and jeers for Melky, too.

            We want everyonen to be a star. It’s easy to forget, though, that you win with average players in many positions. I tend to agree that Gardner is marginal as an everyday MLB player. But I think Melky is a legit MLB regular. Maybe just an average one, but he’s still young enough that you can’t write off the possibility that he becomes a good player, either.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski

            What the fuck? I compliment a guy for hitting a homer and a triple, and all the sudden it’s back on a bandwagon?

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Stop with the excuses, Joseph.

          • Mattingly’s Love Child

            Ever see a college basketball game where the walk-ons get to play? Everyone cheers so hard for them to make a shot, get a rebound, do something to get in the box score. Well Gardner is like that walk-on. Most of us have decided that he sucks (or at least isn’t good enough to be a regular every day player) so when he gets a chance to play and does something great we’re all wildly happy for him(and of course the Yankees, the beneficiaries of his great play). I don’t think it means ANY of the RAB writers or faithful want Gardner starting in center for an extended period of time.

            To think that would mean that no, you haven’t been paying attention for the past month. (and yes I did mean to be glib there)

            • jsbrendog

              hmmmm, interesting theory. i could see its merit. it makes sense

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                Ever see a college basketball game where the walk-ons get to play?

                Doesn’t need to be college, you can watch it in the NBA.

                Brett Gardner = J.J. Redick

                OOOOOOOOOOOOOH, BURN!!!!!!!!

                • Mattingly’s Love Child

                  I love trashing Duke players, no doubt!

                  But I’d prefer you didn’t compare the wholesome grittiness that is Brett to their foul stench. Thanks!

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      You Gardner fanboys are something else.
      Only on RAB.

      YOU DISCREDITED SOCIALIST BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • jsbrendog

      oaktag.

      good job. you earned it.

      • Mattingly’s Love Child

        Ok, so I saw the commentary of where oaktag came from, but I still don’t get it. Or is that the point, there is nothing to get?

        • jsbrendog

          basically in my mind the reasoning is that the comments that get an oaktag are either devoid of thought, rationality, or common sense.

          IE:

          DFA VERAS HE SUCKS!

          or cashman is the worst gm ever

          or cano sucks, trade him now, sell high.

          or RAB! STUPID GARTNER FANBOI’S!!!!111!!1

          • Mattingly’s Love Child

            Works for me. I hope you don’t mind if I rip that off.

            Thanks for the explanation for something that probably didn’t need explaining, but before my 2nd coffee, definitely needed explaining.

            • jsbrendog

              np. use it wisely….we dont want it to lose all meaning

  • stuart

    heard yanks had 3 triples in a game about 5 years ago.

    good win, gardner deserves a start thurs. sit swisher and add matsui as DH….

    aceves is going no where soon…..

  • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Aunt Becca-Optimist Prime

    Maybe this is when it turns around.

    • seanc

      Let’s all hope so. I assume I’m not alone with the inconsistency of the Yanks offense/pitching this season.

    • jsbrendog

      no hitter by cc turns it around tonight.

      • Mattingly’s Love Child

        Going all in on that one, eh?

  • DCR

    P.S.: Best part of the game was when Aceves made Rios look stupid by ducking out of a curveball that ended up being right on the inside corner. Sick pitch.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski

      Alb did the same thing in the ninth, it just didn’t quite get back across the plate. Aceves’s was pretty damn sick.

      • Stormrider6

        Cone called it an “Uncle Charlie” pitch… Anyone know why?

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside
          • Joe R

            “because that douchenozzle kyle gave me an uncle charlie to the rectum it sucked”

            I dont know why I find that so amusing.

          • Stormrider6

            If only urbandictionary weren’t blocked at work… Big Brother is watching.

    • JP

      I was surprised when Albaladejo made the team and Aceves didn’t, after spring training.

      Watching the team last year, Aceves seemed to be, by far, the best bullpen pitcher of the new/rookie crop. Not that Albaladejo was bad, he wasn’t. But Aceves was very good. Maybe they were grooming him to be a starter or something?

  • http://theyankeebomber.blogspot.com Conan

    Yanks role players stepped up tonight. If they give any type of production, this team will be alright. Aceves could be a real interesting option in the bullpen – maybe push Edwar Ramirez back to the Independent Leagues.

  • JP

    Texiera hit several line drives. I think his funk is over, or in the process of being over…

  • LiveFromNewYork

    I like Melky but thought he got lazy last year. Too many nights out in the clubs. I like Gardner but he’s either fizzle or sizzle and he seems to run hot and cold. I don’t CARE at this point who is in CF so long as they’re on and doing well with both O and D.

    Tex’s spring woes are well known. He hasn’t suddenly stopped knowing how to hit a baseball. His wrist has also played into his troubles.

    Pena is good but inexperienced and a lot of rookies make the mistakes he’s made. He’ll get better.

    If we had one or two of the missing pieces back (notably Bruney) we’d be in fine shape.

    • Rob in CT

      Notably Posada, I’d say. Bruney will be a nice addition, yes. But Po is almost infinitely more important.

      Do we know how long Jeter and Matsui are out?

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      I like Melky but thought he got lazy last year. Too many nights out in the clubs.

      Did I miss this story? Melky was in the clubs a lot last year? Where did you get that information from?

      • JP

        I didn’t see any such story either. I guess he’s under the influence of that penumbra.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          That’s my point. I don’t recall any stories about evidence of Melky partying too hard or said partying being a contributing factor to his struggles. Furthermore, I’m sure other players did party hard (shit, there’s the picture of Giambi downing a bottle of Jack) but it’s not offered as reason why he struggled in any way.

          I wish I didn’t have to keep pointing this shit out, but it keeps popping up.

          • jsbrendog
          • JP

            A/K/A, you don’t have to keep pointing it out.

            Not to stir up the flames again, but it absolutely astonishes me that people still feel the need to invoke the concept of racism any where and everywhere, even when it is not warranted.

            The fact that there are people in history who have committed terrible acts of injustice motivated by racism doesn’t make every succeeding generation guilty of it by inheritance.

            This was discussed in relation to Cano yesterday. While the accusers denied calling me or anyone else a racist, it was eloquently stated that there is a prevailing opinion that Cano doesn’t have a good work ethic, and that this opinion is likely racially motivated.

            It doesn’t matter that he is documented to be somewhat impatient and undisciplined at the plate (strike zone judgement, etc.). It doesn’t matter that his manager benched him last year for dogging on a ground ball. It doesn’t matter that his sub-standard play last year seemed – as judged by his jovial demeaner – not to bother him. No, we are not allowed to judge him on any of that, not without first exonherating ourselves of racist motives.

            Yet, a comment like “the fact that sportswriters are all white men has something to do with his ‘rap as a lazy player” is perfectly acceptable.

            It’s ok to lump a bunch of white men into a group and call them racists…because, well, hey, it’s probably true. Yet there are outcries of indignation when the work ethic of a player of latino background is questioned, even in the face of evidence which supports the questioning!

            The practice of denying someone equal rights on the basis of race, gender, etc., is despicable. Somehow, the justifiable outrage over this has morphed into a culture-wide, irrational, zealous, police-like scrutiny of thoughts and words. Does anyone even recognize that there is a difference between stating an opinion about someone, and actually acting on that opinion in such a way as to deny them rights?

            Sorry for the rant. But I can’t let it go, sorry.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Not to stir up the flames again, but it absolutely astonishes me that people still feel the need to invoke the concept of racism any where and everywhere, even when it is not warranted.

              I agree. It absolutely astonishes me that people still feel the need to invoke tired, discredited racial stereotypes inherited from the past. I pointed it out here because I feel it is warranted. LiveFromNewYork made an off-the-cuff remark about Melky spending too much time in the club that had racial/cultural overtones. I asked him to explain himself. I don’t think that’s an “unwarranted” question.

              The fact that there are people in history who have committed terrible acts of injustice motivated by racism doesn’t make every succeeding generation guilty of it by inheritance.

              I didn’t accuse anybody of guilt for the past. I asked as to the substantiation for his comment, because his comment is most definitely reminiscent of CURRENT racial/cultural stereotyping. I’m not saying that I’m mad that slavery happened centuries ago, I’m saying that people need to recognize that there are stereotypes embedded in our shared collective consiousness that are still very real, prevalent, and damaging, and they should be exposed and challenged.

              This was discussed in relation to Cano yesterday. While the accusers denied calling me or anyone else a racist, it was eloquently stated that there is a prevailing opinion that Cano doesn’t have a good work ethic, and that this opinion is likely racially motivated.

              And there is a prevailing opinion. And no, I didn’t accuse you of being a racist, because I don’t know you like that, I’m also not accusing LiveFromNewYork of being a racist for similar reasoning. What I am accusing you BOTH of is falling prey to the subtle racial stereotyping indoctrination that is prevalent in our society. It’s not done with malice, but it is real and it is a problem. We are programmed to think about race as a society in ways we don’t often even consciously recognize. This leads to people with clean hearts and clean consciences thinking and saying things that are harmful stereotypes without ever realizing that they have been programmed.

              It doesn’t matter that he is documented to be somewhat impatient and undisciplined at the plate (strike zone judgement, etc.). It doesn’t matter that his manager benched him last year for dogging on a ground ball. It doesn’t matter that his sub-standard play last year seemed – as judged by his jovial demeaner – not to bother him. No, we are not allowed to judge him on any of that, not without first exonherating ourselves of racist motives.

              All of that does matter. There are most certainly numerous instances where people fit the negative stereotypes that society saddles them with quite perfectly. This doesn’t change the fact that the stereotype exists and is pernicious to our American social dynamic. The appropriate solution in cases like this is to criticize the player for his valid failures (if they are in fact valid) while acknowledging the stereotypical similarities present. There’s nothing wrong with noting that some of Cano’s problems mirror some of the stereotypes Latino players are saddled with as long as we also acknowledge the biases that we carry. It’s full disclosure. It’s like when, for example, ABC News does a story about a Disney movie, they report the facts as they are, good, bad, or otherwise, but always remember to remind that Disney is the parent company of ABC, to acknowledge that while they have attempted to be as evenhanded and dispassionate as possible, there is a connection there so the commentary should be viewed and judged closely for bias.

              Yet, a comment like “the fact that sportswriters are all white men has something to do with his ‘rap as a lazy player” is perfectly acceptable.

              Because it probably does, because we as people are prone to bias, particularly bias against people who are not like us. This is a fairly universal tenet of psychology, sociology, and modern racial/cultural dynamics theory.

              It’s ok to lump a bunch of white men into a group and call them racists…because, well, hey, it’s probably true.

              No, it’s not. What is okay, and what I’ve done in both instances, is question the thought processes and evidentiary background behind people’s statements that are racial/cultural in nature. I didn’t question you or LiveFromNewYork because you’re white; I have no clue what ethnicity either of you are. I questioned because you made statements that imply racial bias, and I did in it a way that questioned and gave you the opportunity to explain how that implication of bias was false.

              Yet there are outcries of indignation when the work ethic of a player of latino background is questioned, even in the face of evidence which supports the questioning!

              Because of the frequency and intensity of the questioning, bro. That’s why.

              The practice of denying someone equal rights on the basis of race, gender, etc., is despicable. Somehow, the justifiable outrage over this has morphed into a culture-wide, irrational, zealous, police-like scrutiny of thoughts and words.

              Are there people who take it too far? Yeah, probably. That’s why I’m attempting to question evenly and dispassionately here. I can’t change the erroneous and capricious accusations of racism that were false made against people by others, but I acknowledge the validity of your claim that sometimes, bias is claimed where it does not exist. That does not absolve people from speaking from viewpoints of bias, though.

              Does anyone even recognize that there is a difference between stating an opinion about someone, and actually acting on that opinion in such a way as to deny them rights?

              Yes. But both are wrong, and both should be questioned. I’m not looking for criminal or civil redress or reparations, just for people to more closely examine their personal biases that they’ve absorbed from an American culture that is stereotype-obsessed.

              Sorry for the rant. But I can’t let it go, sorry.

              No apologies necessary. Nobody should “let it go” until we’ve talked it out and resolved the mental roadblocks we create for ourselves as members of the Great American Experiment.

              • JP

                How can you say that my statements on Cano, or LiveFromNewYork’s on Cabrera “imply racial bias?” You see, that’s the nut of your argument, and it isn’t a fact. It’s your opinion of someone else’s comments, which speaks more to your cultural conditioning and bias than it does the other person’s. At the least, you have to agree you have no idea what goes on in another person’s mind. To suggest that you “know” the comments are the innocent by-product of racial stereotypes is absolute hogwash. For all you know, the people writing these statements could be residents of the Dominican Republic.

                These statements don’t “imply racial bias.” What is happening is that you are inferring racial bias.

                You asked for substantiation of the claim that Cabrera was partying excessively. Well, where is your substantiation that there is a “general perception” that Cabrera and Cano are lazy? Your anecdotal observations of sportswriting and reporting in NY? So you are objective enough, and unencumbered by bias, racial or otherwise, to conclude, based your what you see, that there is a “general perception” that these players are lazy, yet someone else is not permitted to reach a conclusion based on their own observations, without being subject to racial bias?

                All you are doing by “pointing it out” is dragging another person’s character and reputation through the mud, because I don’t care how much you intellectualize or sterilize your comments, you are painting a picture of guilt by association. If you’re not calling me a racist, at the least you are portraying me as the innocent-yet-ignorant poor schmuck, unknowing victim of culturally inculcated racism, something which you, apparently, are by contrast enlightened enough to be free of.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  Oh, come on. Let’s not equivocate this thing into nothingness.

                  Here’s an analogy.

                  Say jsbrendog says that CC Sabathia really likes chicken and watermelon. If I say that that statement, whether it’s true or false, speaks to/implies/infers an adherence to racial stereotyping on jsbrendog’s part simply because , does me saying that really “speak to my cultural conditioning and bias” more than it speaks to jsb’s cultural conditioning and bias? No, it doesn’t.

                  Because, in that hypothetical, jsb used racial buzzwords and stereotypical memes. Me calling into question his usage of that is not more pernicious than his original usage of that.

                  And I don’t have a substantiation that there is a perception that Cano or Cabrera are lazy, that’s the point. I do have a substantiation that Latinos are generally perceived as lazy, and that would be the sum totality of the past 400 years of recorded human history and thought. Come on, are you really challenging the notion that there’s no stereotypical depictions of Latinos?

                  If you’re not calling me a racist, at the least you are portraying me as the innocent-yet-ignorant poor schmuck, unknowing victim of culturally inculcated racism, something which you, apparently, are by contrast enlightened enough to be free of.

                  I don’t claim to be “enlightened enough to be free of bias”. I do claim to be aware of bias to the point that I know I’m not perfect and that subtle cultural programming often leaves me with residual biases and latent stereotypes that do influence my thought.

                  The problem is, you seem to be unwilling to admit the same: that non of us are truly “enlightened enough” to be free from cultural bias, and that sometimes, we do allow racial/cultural stereotyping to influence our thoughts, to the level that we may, for example, call Latino players “lazy” in a manner incongruous with the actual observed facts.

                • JP

                  I honestly believe that the very practice you are engaging in, “filtering” comments through a racial/ethnic sieve, in order to point out potential injustice, is as morally reprehensible as an act of racism itself.

                  You acknowledge that you may be pointing out racism even where it doesn’t exist…and this is ok? If 80% of crimes in Whoville are committed by the Voos, while the Gnoos rarely commit crimes, is it ok to randomly imprison all the Voos, as long as we acknowledge we may be imprisoning someone wrongly?

                  Words have meaning. Civil discourse is underpinned by the idea that words mean something, and we can all be fairly judged by what we say. To take a statement about an individual, which had no reasonably literal racist connotation, such as the statements made about Cano and Cabrera, and cast them in a racist light because of what is important to your particular world view, is no different than a police officer pulling over an innocent man under the guise of racial profiling.

                  I don’t think what you are doing, or trying to do, does anything to help the cause you say you are trying to help. Quite the contrary. Invoking the spectre of racism at every turn (well, not at every turn, since many instances of racism and sexism are ignored, or even applauded, especially if they happen to target majority groups, rather than minorities) simply makes an issue of what are essentially meaningless differences (skin color, religion, ethnicity, etc.), as far as living in a civil society goes.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  Well, I disagree. But, I’m putting this to bed, for the good of RAB. We can revisit it again later.

                  I’ll leave you with this link that my boy The Artist threw up the other day.

                  http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/05/conservatives-against-being-against-racism.php

                  In short, no, I don’t think filtering the commentary of others to ferret out the racism inside is even remotely as bad as racism itself. Not by a longshot. But, like I said, I’m sure we’ll revisit this again sometime.

      • JobaWockeeZ

        He was friends with the lazy Dominican so he assumed they went out at clubs.

        • JP

          LOL. I hope we don’t lose Pena to this scourge on young Yankee talent.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Ramiro Peña is Mexican, not Dominican.

            Meaning he’s not lazy. Just a gangster (and possibly a pandemic biohazard).

            • JP

              LOL. a/k/a, every time I want to get mad at you, your fantastic sense of humor calms me down…

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                See? We should be JOKING about the stupid stereotypes and memes of America, not citing them or believing them.

                • jsbrendog

                  so then since he is mexican then that also means he TIIIK OR JOOORRBBB!

      • Mattingly’s Love Child

        It was all over the Post, how’d you miss it?!

        ;-)

    • JP

      LiveFromNewYork wrote:

      I like Melky but thought he got lazy last year. Too many nights out in the clubs.

      Careful there, buddy.

      • LiveFromNewYork

        I read that he was out in the clubs. There is NOTHING to be careful about. It’s not a racist remark to remark that someone is clubbing. HOW THE F did that connection get made???

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Because it’s a common refrain, that non-white players somehow lack the necessary “discipline” to play the game well.

          The “Latino Player X was at the club all night and not showing the proper work ethic to go to bed early so he can play baseball better” is a stereotypical baseball meme.

        • JP

          I was joking, and being provocative. I’m on YOUR side. I was called out yesterday for making similar, apparently latently racist, comments about Robbie Cano.

  • YankeeScribe

    Winning this series against the best team in the AL east would greatly improve my confidence in this team…

  • LiveFromNewYork

    OKAY, there was NO racial overtones to Melky being in the clubs. It was a story I read about him, Robbie and Bobby Abreu and had nothing to do with his race or background. There was NOTHING implied about his race. He’s a kid. It was more about his age than anything else. I didn’t even THINK about race or ethnicity when I wrote that because I DON’T THINK of anyone in those terms EVER.

    So please don’t accuse me of being a racist when I say a ballplayer of ANY ethnic background seems lazy because it’s NOT THERE.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Okay. Do you recall the article or what it said? Because… its an article about the two young Dominican position players and the Venezuelan veteran position player all going out to the nightclubs.

      The story may have truly had nothing to do with their races or backgrounds… or maybe it did. Again, I’m saying, don’t you at least think it’s curious that there’s a story at all about these three Latino players going out and partying, when we can all say with near certainty they’re not the only Yankee players who go out to nightclubs?

      Can you give me more information on this story?

  • matt s.

    I remember when this Tallet guy was a rookie starter with cleveland in’02 he totally shut down the yanks.