Cashman: All quiet on the Yankee front

Listless Yanks drop game, series to Nationals
Starting pitching letting down Yanks in June

Coming off a series loss to the Nationals, many Yankee fans are eager to see some changes. Let’s get a shake-up! That’ll teach those professional baseball players never to lose again.

In reality, though, the Yankees and the rest of baseball are six long weeks away from the trade deadline. While the market is starting to develop, it is a thin one. The best bats out there probably belong to Adam Dunn for a steep price and Nick Johnson for too much more than he is really worth. The other pieces available for teams are relief pitchers.

For the Yankees, it’s the latter that will attract attention. Outside of some questionable characters manning center field, the Yankees’ 2009 lineup is as set as any team’s. They have top performers at most positions and the potential for a very potent offense. Meanwhile, they spent a lot of money to upgrade the rotation this year and have a few good young arms in reserve.

The bullpen, though, has been a concern. While the Yanks’ relief corps has seemingly solidified in June with Al Aceves, Phil Hughes, Phil Coke and Brian Bruney serving as the Bridge to Mariano, the Yankees aren’t quite satisfied with that mix. Hughes is a starting pitcher long-term and will be back in the rotation to spell either Joba, Chien-Ming Wang or perhaps even Andy Pettitte before too many months elapse. Bruney is a health risk, and the other two can’t do it by themselves.

To that end, the Yankees have already been linked to Huston Street and Jose Valverde as well as Chad Qualls, Russ Springer and even Heath Bell. Jon Heyman yesterday reported on Twitter that the Yanks prefer Street and then Valverde. However, neither the Rockies nor the Astros are ready to start selling.

There is, though, another piece to this Trade Deadline. The economy, not too robust these days, may place a limit on the Yanks’ spending. The team tried to hold payroll steady this year and succeeded. Now, news comes down from Yanks’ GM Brian Cashman that the team is not looking to make a July splash.

Speaking with the Spanish language media on Wednesday, Cashman said that he is hoping the team’s internal pieces will be enough to fill the holes. One day, Damaso Marte may return, and if Wang rounds into form, the Yanks could keep Hughes in the pen for longer than they perhaps expected to. “If we get everyone healthy and performing the way they are capable of here, there will be very little to do. But that doesn’t mean I’m not going to try,” Cashman said.

That’s a very vague statement from Cashman. He’ll kick the tires, as he should, on those players available closer to the deadline; he may not be able to add much in the way of payroll; and he is optimistic that the injured players can come back and contribute. While I would like to see the Yanks firm up the back end of that bullpen, Cashman’s assessment sounds about right to me.

Listless Yanks drop game, series to Nationals
Starting pitching letting down Yanks in June
  • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

    Re: Street:

    I’m of the opinion that he’s not worth giving up Zach MacAllister; am i right or wrong about that?

    • Charlie

      i think you’re right, but its not like we know that’s the price

      • Jamal G.

        http://tinyurl.com/m63zg9

        Apparently, Colorado GM Dan O’Dowd wants at least two top flight prospects and at least one major league ready player for Street.

        • ChriS

          Angel Berroa, Grant Duff, and Humberto Sanchez.

          Done. Being a GM is eaaaaasy.

        • Reggie C.

          McAllister, Veras, Miranda.

        • the artist formerly known as (sic)

          Kennedy, Veras and Mesa.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

          That source, Jamal, has been far less than reliable in the past. I don’t put much credence into NY Baseball Digest’s anonymous sources or the reporting that comes from it.

          • Jamal G.

            Really? Damn, I wasn’t aware of that. Thanks for the heads-up.

    • ChriS

      Correct.

      There’s no reason that MacAllister couldn’t be as good as Street out of the bullpen in a couple seasons, but he could be a damn fine #2 starter.

      I don’t think the bullpen is all that much of concern, unless Marte is gone for the season and Wang reverts to BP and Hughes has to take a spot in the rotation.

      The only reason to acquire bullpen help is if it is dirt cheap in prospects. Dirt. Cheap. It’s far from the end of the world or a necessity.

    • Reggie C.

      Wrong.. but you knew I was going to say that.

      These past games puts ‘pen talk on the backburner as the Yankee lineup can’t muster enough offense to beat inferior teams. Have opposing pitchers been stepping up their game? Yeah. But that doesn’t excuse all those outs we’ve made with RISP.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        Oh, Reggie. The way you and I talk about this, we could start our own sitcom!

      • Jamal G.

        The Yankees’ bullpen (ranks amongst MLB teams in June)(ranks amongst MLB teams in the past 30 days):

        FIP: 3.51 (8th in MLB) (4.25, 19th in MLB)
        K/BB: 2.78 (5th in MLB) (2.79, tops in MLB)
        BB/9: 3.28 (6th in MLB) (2.90, 2nd in MLB)
        WHIP: 1.07 (4th in MLB) (1.17, tied for 2nd in MLB (Rays))

        The ‘pen talk is “on the backburner” because the relievers have been damn good over the past 30 days, and done exceptionally well since the start of June.

        • pat

          Nice work Jamal, you look very strange without a link in your name though. I don’t even recognize you.

          • Jamal G.

            Yeah, something about Facebook’s URL the RAB spam filter does not like, so, in order for my posts to go through, I can’t put it in the URL box. I might just use my Twitter link, though.

        • Reggie C.

          Aggregate data looks good, but Hughes and Wang added to the effectivness of the ‘pen. Aceves and Coke deserve applause for compiling alot of those innings.

          • Chris

            So because we have good pitchers in the pen it makes the stats meaningless?

  • John Duci

    I think the Yanks should trade for Adam Dunn before they go and get Street or Qualls. Dunn would hit 50 hrs if he finishes the year in the new stadium. Teixiera, A-ROD, A-Dunn looks very nice on paper.

    • Charlie

      no spot for dunn, i just don’t see that happening at all

      • John Duci

        DH/OF.. Matsui rides the bench

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          He’s not ineffective enough to eat $13MM. Trust me, I’m Dunn’s biggest fan around here, but there isn’t room for him on the ’09 team.

        • Mike Pop

          Ya, but if you could improve the team’s need(bullpen help, I guess), why improve the best part of the team?

          I’m a huge Dunn fan and was hoping they sign him in the offseason along with Matty from UConn but I don’t see that trade happening. Just does not make too much sense at this point in time.

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            Aww, you called me Matty.

            • Mike Pop

              Mr. Matt, you have a massive erection.

              • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                Don’t act like you’re not impressed.

                • jsbrendog

                  ITS THE PLEATS. its an illusion…. jus gonna walk it off..nothing to see here///

  • Charlie

    I don’t see the need for a trade. Just give Mark Melancon a chance cause that kid is good. Also, why would the rockies trade away their 26 year old closer that they just acquired?? He’s not some overrated veteran, he’s young.

  • Jake K.

    I don’t read too much into Cashman’s statement. He always plays his cards close to the vest.

  • http://161stStreet.wordpress.com Chris A

    I’d love to see Street on the Yankees, but for the right price. However, it seems like the Rockies are asking for the moon. Still, I have come to accept that anything can happen with Brian Cashman as the GM.

    Also, why not bring up Melancon again? You know what you’re going to get with most of the other bullpen arms, but you don’t quite know what Melancon can give you. Who knows, maybe he is the answer.

  • GG

    Westchester Journal News has Cash saying Marte may require surgery to figure out whats up??? I don’t know if this is true, just saw it on the ESPN fantasy newswire. That sounds weird, having surgery to figure out whats up??? I have a bad feeling hes out for the year, atleast Coke has been sharp

    • Zach

      ‘exploratory arthroscopic surgery’
      -nothing significant shows up on MRI and rehab isnt working

      Prior, Bonser, Hafner, Anibal Sanchez are just some names who have had it

      • GG

        Do you know anything Marte specific beyond that? I still think were looking at like an august or sept. return as a best case scenario given the complete lack of any positive feedback at all

        • Zach

          No clue, but thats what it means when they say they need surgery to figure out whats wrong. Return date is based on what they find- Bosner had a torn labrum and rotator cuff, while Hafner just had his joint cleaned out. We’ll see

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

      Can you please e-mail us news tips instead of posting them as off-topic comments? It’s really getting frustrating for the three of us to ask the same people the same thing day after day.

  • JP

    I’ve wondered over the last year or two whether the Yankees are girding their loins for a serious financial storm. In other words, things are great in baseball now – TV revenue, attendance, etc. But the Yankees have very high salaries, and maybe they have been projecting what their situation might be if revenues dropped dramatically. “Stress testing.”

    I’ve heard nothing about the economic debacle crippling baseball, but you wonder if, eventually, it will trickle down to MLB. Maybe the Yankees are preparing for this…

    • Stryker

      what evidence do you see of that happening? they just dished out 3 huge contracts and currently have 3 of the highest paid players in the sport.

      not trying to argue, just curious to see where you’re coming from is all.

  • jackstrawfromwichita

    How about a solid backup/part time 3B?..Can derosa play 3rd? Pretty clear that A-Rod is being hindered by his hip. I’d like him 3-4 out of 7 days healthy than 7 out of 7 days useless.

    • Zach

      you want to bench ARod 3 times a week?

      • jackstrawfromwichita

        Not bench him. Rest him. Three days a week may be a stretch but the point remains. I think it is pretty obvious from watching him run and his limited range at 3b compared to last year that he is not 100%. I don’t know why Girardi hasn’t given him a day off yet.

        I think it is foolish not to have a capable replacement that has some pop. He had a serious injury that everyone admitted will need more surgery. If we can keep him rested he is more likely to contribute and less likely to wear down in Aug/Sep/Oct(hopefully)

        Some insurance would be a wise investment.

  • Charlie

    don’t worry, papelbon will come to NY. Check this out
    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/06/papelbon-on-.html

    … pretty funny, and no papelbon, we would never want you

    • The Lodge

      They should get him and make him the guy that cleans Mariano’s spikes.

    • UWS

      Really? I’d take him in a heartbeat, douchebaggery and all. If Clemens could play for the Yanks, so can Paps.

      • jsbrendog

        agreed. 100%

        • Charlie

          hes not a FA until 2011, he’ll be in his 30s, lately he has allowed a lot of baserunners, and he’s JONATHON PAPELBON!!!!!! doesn’t his face make it enough to not even consider that?

          • jsbrendog

            if/when he becomes a free agent and he has maintained his consistency at an above average level i am not against signing him at all depending on terms (yrs, $$, age, previous couple years performance)

            for christ sakes the yankees had jose canseco and he won a ring. mel halls in jail for 45 yrs for raping a 12 yr old. papelbon can come.

            • UWS

              Exactly.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          +1

          We may hate the guy but if he played for the Yankees, we’d love him to death.

      • radnom

        Eh, I could never root for him with a clean conscious.

        He is a whole level of douchebag above Clemens. Sure I want good players, but it helps not to hate there guts too.

        • radnom

          *their

      • Drew

        I’d take him, on the contingency that he leaves that stupid “O” face in Boston.

  • tampayankee

    “They have top performers at most positions and the potential for a very potent offense.”
    Really? Johnny Damon is one of the best fielding left fielders in Baseball? Nick Swisher is an all star in right? Matsui is a scary clean up DH? Do you watch the games? The Yankee pitching is fine as long as Posada does not catch, someone had the stats a few days ago, the Yankees need power off the bench in left and right hand form and another usefull back up infielder.
    Solve from within, Cut Swisher, Berroa and Matsui bring up Ransom(competent back up), Duncan and Rodriguez or Austin Jackson. The team is going nowhere in its current form and the Boston, Mets and Washington series prove this.

    • Charlie

      It truly is hard to tell if you’re joking here. But it seems like you’re not, so therefore you are a fucking idiot. Cut Swisher & Matsui?? Are you kidding me?? The Yankees DO have a great lineup, they’ve just been bad the past few games. And Matui does not bat clean up. YOU’RE WRONG!!!

    • ChriS

      Cut Swisher and Matsui?

      Obviously.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Surely, you’re joking.

    • UWS

      All of this is batshit insane.

      Copyright TSJC, 2009. All rights reserved.

    • Jake K.

      You’re crazy man. I like you, but you’re crazy.

    • Chris

      I’m too dumbfounded by this to even respond.

    • jsbrendog

      ::for the us open::

      tampayankee, on the 1st green. this will set the tone for all his puts the rest of the day. he moves the clubback…

      O-A-K-T-A-G

    • I Remember Celerino Sanchez

      You want to cut the guy who is second on the team in OBP and has a .892 OPS (Swisher) and a guy with a .816 OPS (Matsui) to bring up a guy who failed twice in the big leagues (Duncan), a 31-year-old who hasn’t played in the Majors since 2006 and whose AAA OPS is only slightly higher than the two guys in the Majors you want to cut (.894) or a kid who strikes out way too much in AAA and whose development would be severely impacted by being thrown into the fire (Jackson).

      And you are basing your opinion on 9 games of a 162-game season.

      Yup. It’s official. One of the ten most ridiculous posts I’ve ever seen on RAB.

      • radnom

        There has been a lot of those lately.

        My favorite was the guy denouncing MLB and the Yankees for not mandating retractable roofs in every stadium.

        • I Remember Celerino Sanchez

          I missed that one. That one is on the list, too.

          • Pasqua

            “tampayankee”….hmmmm….oh, man! It’s Billy Connors! Always meddling.

    • Colombo

      Really? Like, really?

      Hell, why not just cut ARod too…he’s obviously not performing.

      The only suggestion you made that will come true is the cutting of Berroa. But your suggestion to cut a killer OBP guy (Swisher) and a good, yet streaky, hitter (Matsui) in favor of Cody “I have a 60 inch vertical leap” Ransom, Shelley “Hulk Smash” Duncan and John “No nickname” Rodriguez is mildly offensive to anyone who knows baseball. Granted, I’m not happy about the past nine games either, but this is really overreacting.

      • jsbrendog

        John “No nickname” Rodriguez

        iet

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      Mr. tampayankee, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

    • http://myspace.com/lincolnsworld Link

      Wow…all I can really say here.

  • Monument Park

    I never hear anyone complain about the advanced scouting – as we all know, the Yanks suck against any pitcher they see for the first time. Isn’t that where your advanced scouts come it??? What are these guys scouting – titty bars for the players to go to after the game. It sure isn’t the opposing pitchers

    • radnom


      What are these guys scouting – titty bars for the players to go to after the game.

      Please, don;t understate the importance of this….

      • Monument Park

        Hey those places are open all night they can scout them after the game!

      • pat

        Team Chemistry>>> Everything else.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      It’s not pitchers they see for the first time, that’s a myth. Everyone forgets what they did to Porcello, Holland, Simon, Richmond, etc. when they faced them for the first time ever earlier this year.

      It’s pitchers that pump strike after strike that give them trouble.

      • I Remember Celerino Sanchez

        And, in fairness, Lannan has been giving a lot of people trouble lately. His outings before he faced the Yanks, against the Mets and Reds, looked a lot like his game against the Yanks. The guy is good. At least he’s pitching well now.

  • Ace

    Can I ask an obvious question? Why is it ok for Phil Hughes to be in the pen and not ok for Joba? Don’t they both need to be stretching themselves out?

    • radnom

      Joba earned his spot in the rotation. You can argue Hughes has done so as well, but less so than any of the five pitchers currently starting (assuming Wang improves).

      They are both under inning limits, neither can start the whole season and stay under that. Because of this, Hughes can still “stretch out” while spending part of the season in the bullpen.

      Hopefully Wang improves and he is back in the AAA rotation sooner as opposed to later.

      • YankeeScribe

        Joba doesn’t look any better than Hughes at this point. I’m sure they both will develop into solid starting pitchers but Joba’s velocity problems bother me

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          Despite the velocity problems, he’s still managing about a strikeout per inning.

          • YankeeScribe

            He’s good. No doubt but he’s got flaws. Most of his flaws can be overcame but the velocity thing, if it’s physical, might drastically change his upside as a starting pitcher.

            • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

              He’s 23. He can fix his flaws, and the velocity, quite easily. And, if he’s still striking out about one per inning, does the velocity matter all that much? As long as he can get the walks under control (is there a pun there?), he’ll improve.

        • Zach

          How does Joba not look better? Hughes out of the bullpen for 1 or 2 innings doesnt count

          Hughes: 2 QS in 7 Starts
          Joba: 7 QS in 13 starts (1 of those taken out for getting hit in knee), with an ERA an entire run less then Hughes

          I dont think QS is a great term but you cant say Joba doesnt look better then Hughes

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            Joba’s allowed more than 3 runs only two times this year.

            • Zach

              So did Hughes, well 3 if you count the 4R (3ER) game

          • YankeeScribe

            Joba’s had more starts than Hughes so their numbers are not easily comparable statwise. I’m just talking in terms of throwing strikes, missing bats, not giving up walks, and not throwing 100 pitches by the 6th inning. I’d say they’re about the same with a slight edge going to Joba.

            • Zach

              Fine use %:

              Hughes has gone 6P IP in 28.57% of his starts
              Joba has gone 6+ IP in 53.84% of his starts

            • YankeeScribe

              I’m not taking anything away from Joba. He’s been OK so far this season and just a little better than Hughes. Both guys still look like rookies who are learning on the job.

              What are staff amounts to so far is: one ace(Sabathia), two inconsistent veterans(Burnett and Pettite), one veteran who hasn’t been himself since he went on the DL(Wang), and two rookies getting on the job training(Joba and Phil).

              Confidence level remains a 7

            • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

              Hughes’ BB/9 isn’t exactly stellar at 3.61. It’s better than Joba’s but it’s not all that great either.

              As for the pitches, in his 7 starts, Hughes threw 624 pitches in 34.2 innings. That’s an average of 18.25 an inning. In his 69.2 innings, Joba’s thrown 1184 pitches, good for 17.13. So, it’s a small difference, but Joba’s still throwing slightly fewer pitches per inning in starts.

              • YankeeScribe

                Both pitchers still look like works in progress. I wouldn’t feel confident sending eiter one out to start a big game.

                Watching Joba has been a little more frustrating lately. Maybe because he’s had back to back starts at home(where he doesn’t pitch as well) and Hughes has been looking good coming out of the pen.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      IMO, it’s not okay.

    • Jake K.

      Because everyone believes–and the team has said–that Hughes in the bullpen is a temporary measure. If Wang looks like he’s going to be a mainstay in the rotation the rest of the year, Hughes is likely to go down to AAA.

      With Joba, it’s not ok because he’s established himself as one of our best starters and people aren’t calling for him to go to the bullpen temporarily, but for good, which is asinine.

      • http://myspace.com/lincolnsworld Link

        +1

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      I’m not okay with it.

      • jsbrendog

        me either. esp with the way they use him (or lack of use)

      • Ace

        Good. I just wanted to make sure some people, such as myself, are pissed off that he isn’t starting every 5 days in AAA. Hopefully Wang gets his act together and Hughes goes back down.

      • UWS

        My mind is telling me I’m not okay with it, but my heart rejoices to see him come out of the ‘pen in late innings. The siren song of B-Hosers is hard to fight!

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

      I’m okay because of what Jake said. The Yankees have committed to keeping Hughes as a starter, and for now, they’re using him in the pen because he can contribute. There’s no talk about turning him into some overvalued “8th inning guy.” As long as he’s back in the rotation soon enough and reaches his innings this year, I’d rather see him contributing in the Bronx than throwing mostly meaningless starts against bad competition in Scranton.

      • http://myspace.com/lincolnsworld Link

        I agree. He has nothing left to prove in AAA. I would like for them to set up some kind of system for him to get 2-3 innings every 3 days consistently or something like that.

    • Yages

      Joba or Hughes going to the pen for a bit isn’t a big deal. They’re both starters long term, and anyone with sense sees that. It’s the uninformed lunatic fringe who turn one or the other being in the pen for a spell into a big deal.

    • Sic

      Are you related to Mike Francesa? Coz both of you think alike.

  • pc69

    Curious, after reading many of these posting.

    1. Why is everyone so against cutting Matsui and bringing up someone from AAA or trading for a player to fill his role? He cannot play defense because of his knees and currently or all year, his production has been streaky at best but in no way is he of any value to the team. Why pay $13 million for a DH with a .249 BA and a .344 OBP, it makes no sense. Pitchers do not fear this guy like they did 2 years ago. Yet every time some brings it up, you guys pounce on them like they are biggest idiots. When is it ok to keep a weak link?

    2. While everyone agrees Joba does not belong in the 8th inning role, the Yankees arguably have a pitching over load but not so much due to talent but inconsistent performances by the majority of the staff. We are finally seeing some consistency from Robertson, Coke – Aceves has been decent all year – and now Veras is gone. The point of all of this is that the Yankees do a piss poor job with their young pitching staff, utilizing their strengths and working on their weaknesses. Girardi, is even worse with his “Torre favorite” selections, which leaves pitchers idle for too long only to see them come in and get shelled. But the bigger concern is that the inconsistent staff has not collectively improved which is starting to exhaust the offense because they are always playing catch up. Even when the offense provides a lead, only with Sabbathia do you feel confident that the lead will remain by the end of the next half inning. This needs to be addressed quickly.

    3. While on paper the Yankees seem to have a stable line up, the fact is that it is only above average. I know, all of you will shout idiot, stupid, dumbass and throw mountains of stats at me, but look deeper – the biggest loss right now is not having Nady because is weakens our bench. Matsui should NOT be in the line up as a DH. Posada should be catching 30% less and spending more time as DH (He needs to be the nightly #5 hitter). Swisher needs to be dropped in the line up (7th or 8th, depends on if Melky is playing), Cano needs to be dropped in the line up(6th) and until ARod gets out of his funk, he should be moved to #3, flipping with Tex.

    Jeter
    Damon
    ARod
    Tex
    Posada
    Cano
    Cabrera
    Swisher
    Gardner

    Jeter
    Damon
    ARod
    Tex
    Posada (DH)
    Cano
    Cabrera (Swisher if Gardner starts)
    Swisher
    Cervelli (Gardner 9th if starting)

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      1. Why is everyone so against cutting Matsui and bringing up someone from AAA or trading for a player to fill his role? He cannot play defense because of his knees and currently or all year, his production has been streaky at best but in no way is he of any value to the team. Why pay $13 million for a DH with a .249 BA and a .344 OBP, it makes no sense. Pitchers do not fear this guy like they did 2 years ago. Yet every time some brings it up, you guys pounce on them like they are biggest idiots. When is it ok to keep a weak link?

      Matsui’s not nearly as weak a link as you’re making him out to be. Yes, he’s streaky, he always has been, and a lot of players are. Should we consider cutting guys every time they hit a slump?. The reason they’re keeping him is a) he’s untradable to the NL because of his lack of fielding ability, b) he’s in the last year of his contract, and c) he’s still productive. He’s currently slugging .472 and has an .816 OPS. The average AL DH has slugs .436 with a .773 OPS. You’re really overstating the case against Matsui, IMO.

      If anyone needs to be moved down in the lineup, it’s Cano for his lack of patience, not Swisher who’s still OPSing close to .900, btw. The last two weeks haven’t been great for him, but over the last 14 days, he’s posted an .813 OPS. By all means, let’s move the 2nd best OBP guy on the team down in the order. Putting guys who can get on base is soooooo dumb.

      Sure we all love Frankie Cervelli but the guy should not be getting at bats every day. Posada DH/Cervelli C does not help the Yankees lineup at all and is a big downgrade from Posada/Matsui.

      • pc69

        Perhaps. Not advocating cutting everyone who hits a slump, just Matsui. I agree with Cervelli but what other options do you have.

        I just have a hang up on Matsui. Never liked the signing but now, he can only hit bad pitching or mistake pitches. At least with Cervelli you get defense, he can bunt, decent speed, he is not the auto out that Matsui is.

        • Zach

          We should cut ARod too. He’s an automatic out and not playing great defense, Pena’s bunting, speed and defense earns him the starting 3B job

          • pc69

            Seriously dude, where is the value of that comment. Say you disagree and then present facts why you disagree.

            • I Remember Celerino Sanchez

              But your dislike of Matsui is not rational. He has a higher OPS than the average DH. And you’re pushing for Cervelli to play more, when his OPS is a well-below-average .622, almost 200 points lower than Matsui’s (.816), who you don’t want in the lineup.

              You’re entitled to your gut feelings, but your proposals make no sense in light of the facts, so don’t be shocked when you get some push back.

            • Zach

              Here are my facts:

              ARod OPS .832
              Pena OPS .591
              Difference of .241

              Matsui OPS .816
              Cervelli OPS .622
              Difference of .194

              Those two scenarios differ by .047

              pc69 says:
              June 19th, 2009 at 11:55 am
              .44 [.044] is not that big of a gap

              • pc69

                Sorry, the ARod argument is not even in the same category. And I am not comparing catcher to catcher as you are with ARod and Pena. I am simply saying that as a DH Matsui is not as productive as he should be. He does nothing else – ala Big Papi – but sit his ass on the bench. If he could provide some defense, then there is no argument on his AB’s. Cervelli’s AB’s are just as bad but inserting him into the line up does not, in my mind, regress the line up because of his defense.

                • Jamal G.

                  What in God’s name does Franky Cervelli’s perceived great defensive value have anything to do with the lineup?

                • Zach

                  ARod isnt as productive as he should be either as 3B clean up hitter on the Yankees. ARod might as well sit on the bench too because hes not good in the field this year, Pena’s being entering into the lineup doesnt make it weak either because of his defense.

                  The difference offensively between Matsui/Cervelli and Pena/Arod are the same. Cervelli brings + to the table in his defense, speed, and bunting- Pena brings those some +, he needs to get in the lineup and Arod needs to go

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          Auto out? Matsui’s OBP is .344. Cervelli’s is .300. Who’s a more automatic out? Any IF single that Cervelli may collect is going to be completely negated by the fact that Matsui walks much more than Cervelli beats out ground balls. The other options you have are to put the most productive lineup out there the most times. Right now, the most productive lineup includes Jorge Posada and Hideki Matsui.

          • pc69

            .44 is not that big of a gap but I understand your point. I just wish there was an easy solution to getting rid of Matsui. There is not. Yankees backed themselves into a hole.

            Oh well, i guess fingers crossed every time he bats and hope it is more than a DP or K.

            • Nady Nation

              .044 is a huge gap, especially when you’re talking .344 over .300.

              • pc69

                actually it is not if you consider that Matsui has 138 more AB’s than Cervelli. However, assume that all things stay fairly consistent or fall back to the mean, then yes, on second thought, that would be a decent gap.

                Allright, I concede the point. Matsui is better in the line up but that is like saying I have a bike to ride so I don’t have to walk, even though, every 10 minutes the chain falls off of the bike and I have to fix it – a better option but very very very far from ideal.

                • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                  but that is like saying I have a bike to ride so I don’t have to walk, even though, every 10 minutes the chain falls off of the bike and I have to fix it – a better option but very very very far from idea

                  You are really overstating the case against Matsui.

                • pc69

                  I know. I am done. I need to let it go. I am just very indifferent to Matsui and refuse to see his value.

            • Zach

              “hope it is more than a DP or K.”

              2 DP + 36K = 38
              49 H + 26BB + 3HBP + 1 SF= 79

              79/227 PA = 34.8%
              38/227 PA = 16.7%

              So you’re right 16.7% of his plate appearances, great job

            • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

              Yeah, I do too. If the Yankees could get Adam Dunn, I’d shit myself with excitement but it’s not happening. But let’s not sit here and act like Matsui can’t hit his way out of a wet paper bag. He’s still out producing the average DH and will definitely out produce Cervelli.

          • YankeeScribe

            Matsui is clearly a better hitter than Cervelli BUT:

            – Cervelli is a better and faster baserunner

            and

            – 27 outs > 4 ABs

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

              A better and fast baserunner do not compensate for the fact that Cervelli can’t even approach Matsui’s level of production. No amount of analysis will convince most of us that the Yanks lineup is better off with Cervelli and without Matsui.

        • jsbrendog

          if matsui can only hit mistakes and bad ptiching then he must see a lot of it because his numbers as shown above are better than the average dh. meaning he is in the top of the league in DH stats.

          • pc69

            That says a lot about the real lack of value the DH brings more than it does about Matsui. But I did not look at the comparative number for DH’s. Will give it a look. good point.

      • YankeeScribe

        Cano needs to bat second. It’s a waste to put him near the bottom of the order.

        • pc69

          Where would you put Damon?

          • Zach

            Jeter, Cano, Damon, Tex, Posada, Arod, Melky, Swish, Cervelli

          • YankeeScribe

            Bat Damon 5th or 6th. Damon has the power and the discipline to hit in the middle of the linuep. Cano is too good a hitter to be near the bottom of the order. He would see a lot of good pitches with Teix batting behind him…

            • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

              Yeah let’s put the guy with good plate discipline down in the order and raise the guy who has bad discipline. Cano is best utilized in the lower part of the order where a) he can use his power to drive in the high OBP guys in front of him and b) not have his lack of PD hurt the team.

              • YankeeScribe

                Jeter in his early years wasn’t the ideal for plate discipline either but he batted 2nd most of his career and the Yanks succeeded. So screw your conventional wisdom lol

                • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                  You mean in 96 and 97 when he posted .370 OBPs both year, with 74 walks in ’97? Jeter’s never had and OBP lower than .360 in his career. Do not compare his PD to Cano’s. Jeter’s career IsoD is 70, Cano’s is 33. Jeter’s OBP skills are much, much better than Cano’s.

                • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                  Wait, I mis-read. Jeter had a .352 OBP in ’04. That’s the only time he’s ever had an OBP under .360.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          Yeah, let’s put the guy who’s got barley league average on-base skills at the top of the lineup. Real smart.

          • YankeeScribe

            That’s an excellent reason for him not to be in the middle of the lineup but not a good reason for him not to bat 2nd.

            • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

              I think he shouldn’t be batting fifth either but let’s focus on your proposal first: high on base guys should be at the top of the order. Jeter and Damon have better OBP skills than Cano. As I said above, Cano is best utilized lower in the order where his power can drive in the guys in front of him and the lack of discipline won’t kill the team. If I had my way, I’d make the order:

              Jeter
              Damon
              Rodriguez
              Teixeira
              Posada
              Swisher
              Cano
              Matsui
              Cabrera

              • YankeeScribe

                Jeter has gotten better plate discipline with age but let’s be honest and admit that he and the Yankees succeeded in spite of his aggressive hitting style. The Yanks can and HAVE succeeded with an aggressive #2 hitter who strikes out a lot…

                • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                  Jeter also walks a lot, hence the .386 career OBP and average of 66 walks per 162 games. Cano =/= Jeter.

                • YankeeScribe

                  Heck, they even did pretty well with Soriano batting leadoff and his plate discipline makes Cano look like Swisher…

                • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                  And they probably could’ve done better and scored more runs with a more patient hitter.

                  Soriano’s IsoD: .048
                  Cano’s Isod: .036

                  Soriano also has the speed factor which put him at the top of the lineup. But, patience > speed.

                • pc69

                  I would not move Cano up in the line up if for anything his lack of pitch discipline. Cano doesn’t work the count which makes him ideal for the #6 spot. Plus YTD Cano has hit into 8 DP, Damon only 3.

              • YankeeScribe

                I still think Cano should bat 2nd more often but for what it’s worth, his career stats show that he’s got a his highest OBP/SLG(.370/.513) when batting 7th…

  • Stryker

    i think what teams have to realize is that when talking to the rockies about huston street, they’re going to be asking for the moon because it’s essentially like trading for matt holliday. look at what the A’s gave up – now look at what street has meant to that team thus far. the rockies have been on a tear and they’ve got street to shut ’em down and close ’em out. street would be a great addition to the yankees – no doubt about it – but i don’t think they necessarily need him given the wealth of capable arms in the minors.

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