“The significance was hard to miss, given how it came the same day The Seattle Times quoted a Mariners clubhouse insider saying animosity from some teammates was so great he feared Ichiro would be attacked.”
Also, how do you feel about Chuck Okwandu as the starting 5 next year?
If Robinson can shoot like he did at the end of the year all year, I’ll be happy. I’m very confident in Walker becoming a superstar and Dyson to be a good scorer.
You have to go to the Seattle stations feed on the main media page, then you can switch over to YES. Mlb.tv sucks. It wasn’t even their support that figured it out.
In re: Michael Kay’s comments: Josh Beckett is the most overrated pitcher in the game today. Can we stop referring to him as one of the best starters in the game when he hasn’t channeled that great stuff into great results outside of 2007?
Agreed completely. It’s just that scouts wet their pants watching the guy, but other than 2007 he hasn’t translated that great stuff to eating innings or ace-level results on a rate basis.
I don’t know about that. If you look at career FIP, that 3.57 career mark is awfully good, CC is at 3.62, Johan is at 3.35, Roy Halladay is at 3.47. He definitely belongs in the conversation for best pitchers in the game. He had one clunker season in 2006 and has been awfully good the rest of his career. The only thing that’s holding him back is injuries (seems like he gets DL’ed for blisters every year).
So I played MLB 09 The Show today, and did a fantasy draft for my season, not only did I get Hanley Ramirez, but I also drafted Longoria, how amazing is that? To think like twenty-seven players were drafted before them (even though the results are computer generated.
I’m sorry, I have faith in Joba as a starter,too, but it is a little disturbing that his velocity has been consistently lower for about a year now (after Texas). And my guess is it isn’t because he’s trying to figure out how to conserve arm strength. He was throwing much harder 2 years ago as a starter in the minors
It would be concerning but he seems to get more velocity as the game goes on. It goes from game to game… which is puzzling… but doesn’t bother me at least too much.
I don’t have an answer for that. But if he were worried about lasting longer, it seems he’d be more concerned with location than velocity. If he’s throwing 5 mph slower consistently on purpose, it seems an ill-advised strategy, and one I hope Eiland & Girardi would have by now disabused him of.
Sorry if I came off as a dick, I wasn’t trying to be. It’s just that Cano has shown glimpses of amazingness, and if he meets his potential, he could be one of the top offensive forces in the game.
The bigger issue to me, more so than velocity, is that Joba isn’t throwing enough pitches in the strike zone. Whether that’s more nibbling or inconsistency in his mechanics, I’m not sure.
Yeah, personally, I’d much rather have Joba work on throwing his curve and change more often and get better overall command of his fastball. If he can do that, and top out at 94-95, that’s juuuuust fine.
And Cano is just an awful hitter because he hit the ball hard Sunday night vs. the Mets and they went right at people. I think they should have optioned him to SWB and given Pena the starting job! Sure Pena’s OPS is only .657 but he’s fast and energetic!
Oh no, I agree. It’s just that he’s 23, and still learning how to pitch. Pettitte is more frustrating to me because he is better than what he’s showing.
Semi-agree. So irritating to see someone with such great stuff nibble, give up bombs to people like Francoeur and Cedeno, and make like Steve Trachsel when he’s not really on. Argh.
That’s it, put him in the bullpen. I’ve had it with this! Joba is not allowed to give up more than 1 run EVER! He doesn’t throw fast enough, velocity is everything. Pettitte and Wang are winners and deserve to be in the rotation. Joba is a bullpen jobber, nothing more.
Melvin is such an inspiring figure. Knowing Mo was throwing out the first pitch, he knew it would be disrespectful to pitch a scoreless 9th today, so he let the opponent score two runs on him.
It is very frustrating. All of a sudden this inning, his velocity is down, no command of any of his pitches and he’s nibbling. He was filthy last inning. I’m sure this is all part of the maturation process, but I agree when people say it’s frustrating.
I’d hate to believe that things like a HR or a missed groundball could get to Joba.
Dude, he’s given up 3 runs. Every pitcher will struggle and yes it’s part of the maturation process. He are all going to have to deal with it if we want to grow our own pitchers. We’re not just signing Aces, we’re growin’ em too!
3 runs in 5 innings? He’s pitched much worse than just the runs. I woudln’t try to act like Joba’s thrown a good game. But I agree with all the maturation process stuff. That was my original point. I have faith it will pay off in the end! I think Hughes and Joba will both be studs if they stay healthy.
I never said he was pitching great. but if he gets through 6 innings and give up the three, i’m happy for now. He will get better and better, but three runs is not terrible.
I’d rather him challenge hitters, yes. I’m not sure you have any kind of point. I suggest you re-read my OP. For God’s sake I wasn’t even criticizing the kid. He’s been frustrating to watch tonight and that’s a fact. I’m sorry you’re having trouble coping with that.
More to the point… his stuff seemed to completely change (velocity, command) in that inning when Ichiro’s grounder went under his glove and I question whether or not that would un-nerve him.
At least your not listening to Sterling. Cause in that case, you wouldn’t have video or audio of the bat on ball contact for confirmation. Nothing worse than having to trust Sterling’s call.
Is he healthy or not? It’s june, and hes still throwing his fastball at 91 or 92 the majority of the time. Obviously, he’s not going to throw 98-100, but last year he was consistently at 95-96 as a starter. I’m not convinced his shoulder is 100 percent.
The facts are undeniable that his velocity vis-a-vis his transition to starter is down significantly–if one pulled all the game logs off Brooks Baseball, you’d likely find he average around 95 in his starts last season and topped out typically at 99, sometimes 100–this year he’ll average about 92.5 and top out at 96 (maybe hit 97 once. Now before the inevitable flames begin:
1. He’s clearly still capable of being a very effective pitcher, maybe even a great pitcher, sitting at 92.5. No one on my end is screaming he needs to be throwing 97 to be good.
2. It’s obvious he should, of course, remaining in the rotation.
But it’s simply undeniable that the velocity is down significantly–it’s not small sample size, it’s a real trend and it’s consistent–again, Brooks Baseball–Joba’s velocity has basically been flat all year.
So it’s not a question of if, it’s a question of why. I tend to side more with the folks who think it’s mechanical. I don’t think it’s “learning to pitch”–he was learning last year and he get rear back and hit 100 if the needed to–this year he can’t. But I simply can’t fathom that they’d be sending him out there hurt. So I think it’s either (a) mechanical or (b)psychologically but not physically related to the shoulder.
And I sure hope he gets those few MPHs back. Again, no argument he can’t be very good with what he has now–but deep down, folks who see this kid as special, as a guy with the potential to contend for the Cy Young every year–know he’s not the same guy at 92 as he is at 96.
Just look at the game logs, it’ll take you five minutes. Routinely topped out at 99 as a starter. Now that might mean he hit it once–but you check his game logs, 98-99 is his typical max fastball.
Mimic CC and throw left-handed? Joba’s actually a natural left-hander, but his father taught him to throw with his right. Can you imagine?
Serious answer: he’s a kid, he showed the command last year, I think he’ll be fine, it’s just going to take time. Not all great pitchers spring fully-formed from the head of Zeus.
And there it is, in stereo! Thanks, guys. I knew there was a reason I stopped commenting here, and now I remember why. But no, the place is richer for your enlightened comments.
Title of Article: ChiSox’s Guillen least popular in SI poll
Article reads: 26 percent of major leaguers polled voted for the combustible Piniella, followed by Guillen at 21 percent
Cano needs to bad 7th through 9th…maybe even leadoff. The guy is an amazing hitter with no men on base but has an absolute mental block when he can get rbi’s right now…
Am I the only one here who is sick and tired of watching Joba pitch????
It’s the same fuckin shit EVERY start:
- too many pitches
- too many balls out of the zone
- velocity is always down
- breaking stuff is EXTREMELY inconsistent
- tempo of game is awful
- MAX 6 innings pitched
- consistently laborious efforts
Where is the “progress”???? If Joba is this great starting pitcher who everyone needs to be patient with and allow him to grow and develop…shouldn’t we expect to see SOME “postive” signs sometime this season???? Joba is REGRESSING, not improving – and he’s killing the bullpen in the progress.
But hey…we should keep him in the rotation because “a starter is always more valuable than a starter” – yea, but that argument only works if its a GOOD starter. Joba is NOT a good starter – and to be honest, does anyone know that he EVER was??? All we know of Joba is a bullpen guy, and my recollection (although not perfect) is that he wasn’t exactly blowing away hitters as a starter in AAA (as a reliever, yes, starter, not so much).
Instead of forcing Joba to start and Hughes to relieve, why don’t the Yankees “braintrust” swap both pitchers and put them where they belong??? Oh that’s right, that would mean the Yankees would have to admit they made a “mistake” – and lord knows, that shit aint happenin’.
1. Why don’t you go get yourself a big, tall glass of calm down juice?
2. As a starter, not including tonight, Joba has a 3.32 ERA and 143 Ks in 141 innings. In what world is that mediocre?
I agree 100%. Joba was terrible his last start vs. Atlanta where he went into the 7th. His ERA is less than 4 which is awful in the AL East. And he only strikes out 8 per 9 innings! DOES IT GET ANY MORE MEDIOCRE THAN THAT? I like your argument about good starter and special reliever. Steve Phillips made the same argument on ESPN and he knows his baseball. JOBA TO THE BULLLPEN!!!!!!
Thank god, no more damage. Our offense needs to score more for Jobber.
How many bats do you think Damon can break in one game this season?
Matt from UConn, re: Ichiro:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ari26.html
The quote to take away:
“The significance was hard to miss, given how it came the same day The Seattle Times quoted a Mariners clubhouse insider saying animosity from some teammates was so great he feared Ichiro would be attacked.”
Also, how do you feel about Chuck Okwandu as the starting 5 next year?
Yeah, I,ve heard people really don’t like Ichiro.
Damn, that’s some Full Metal Jacket shit.
Anyway, I’m not too confident in the team next year aside from Walker/Dyson.
I have faith in Sticks.
If Robinson can shoot like he did at the end of the year all year, I’ll be happy. I’m very confident in Walker becoming a superstar and Dyson to be a good scorer.
Someone tell those two brats sitting behind the plate to put their hats on straight.
Am I the only one having a problem watching the game on mlb.tv or the iphone app? They have it still listed as in delay…
You have to go to the Seattle stations feed on the main media page, then you can switch over to YES. Mlb.tv sucks. It wasn’t even their support that figured it out.
I assume Hughes is available for at least 2 innings tonight?
Hopefully cause Hughes is the eff’in man.
Nice AB by Johnny
Damn it Texy!
#4 for the test poll. Not even close.
Amen
tex really grinds my gears.
First Jete, now Alex.
Again, way to make him work, guys. His guy has a walk rate of practically 6BB/9, and his MiL rates aren’t much better.
Memo to offense: Morrow is not a groundball pitcher.
“There’s no reason for it.” Michael Kay re: Joba’s velocity.
Maybe it’s because he’s pacing himself. Maybe he’s still TWENTY-THREE AND LEARNING HOW TO PITCH AND CONSERVE ARM STRENGTH.
I’m guessing the Orioles (re: Who has Mo saved the most games against).
I’m pretty sure it’s the O’s.
He has the most BS against the Red Sox =(
Mariners, it always has something to do with the game somehow.
I got served even oneil got it.
is joba a 91 mph pitcher now? i know this is an old and annoying topic, but has anyone on the team addressed the velocity issue?
he’s still TWENTY-THREE AND LEARNING HOW TO PITCH AND CONSERVE ARM STRENGTH.
His K-rate is still fine w/o the velocity. It’s all good.
i wasn’t sure if there was still an injury theory
“Looking for him to strike out 8 or 9 guys a night.”
Doesn’t Joba have like…an 8+ K/9?
You’d be correct.
ugh Kay is doing that thing where he thinks again.
correction: Kay is doing that hing where he talks again
this talk with the velocity again, not an ‘ace’ with 92-93, yet still have 8K/9
In re: Michael Kay’s comments: Josh Beckett is the most overrated pitcher in the game today. Can we stop referring to him as one of the best starters in the game when he hasn’t channeled that great stuff into great results outside of 2007?
Amen.
Theyre saying Joba’s not Beckett, or Nolan Ryan, either. Which is good news right? That means he’s not overrated, right?
Amen. Although that was an excellent 2007 reg. and post.
Agreed completely. It’s just that scouts wet their pants watching the guy, but other than 2007 he hasn’t translated that great stuff to eating innings or ace-level results on a rate basis.
I don’t know about that. If you look at career FIP, that 3.57 career mark is awfully good, CC is at 3.62, Johan is at 3.35, Roy Halladay is at 3.47. He definitely belongs in the conversation for best pitchers in the game. He had one clunker season in 2006 and has been awfully good the rest of his career. The only thing that’s holding him back is injuries (seems like he gets DL’ed for blisters every year).
Kay and the booth acting like it’s a revelation that you throw harder out of the bullpen then as a starter. You gotta love it.
Ken Singleton must facepalm constantly ‘acues of those asshats.
he said, maybe its irrational to think a guy can throw as hard throughout the whole game then he can out of the bullpen.
yeah no shit
Strikes, please.
Michael Kay STFU
I wonder if Joba doesn’t put all his effort into some pitches so that he can have more later.
Wow, I didn’t realize Japanese players did the “point at the sky” thing.
I thought it was a Christian thing.
/shrug
It’s an ostentatious Christian thing. Plenty of religious players don’t do that.
Just because he’s Japanese doesn’t mean he’s not Christian. You never know.
That’s what I assumed.
Jews believe in G-d, too.
As do Muslims, Hindus, Ba’hai, Zorastrians, Wiccan, Buddhists, Mormons…
and Sikhs
This is a socialist website. No religion, please.
Again, strikes please. You can’t go 2-0, 3-0 to guys like Johjima and Cedeno.
Good grief, pitching around Cedeno because of the homer earlier…
I know he hit a home run off of you, but don’t treat him like Hanley Ramirez.
Man, Alex has been playing some stellar defense
I’m Michael Kay, and I love lamp!
Phew again
why is joba throwing so slow? 91 is not good enough!
mornons.
So I played MLB 09 The Show today, and did a fantasy draft for my season, not only did I get Hanley Ramirez, but I also drafted Longoria, how amazing is that? To think like twenty-seven players were drafted before them (even though the results are computer generated.
I’m sorry, I have faith in Joba as a starter,too, but it is a little disturbing that his velocity has been consistently lower for about a year now (after Texas). And my guess is it isn’t because he’s trying to figure out how to conserve arm strength. He was throwing much harder 2 years ago as a starter in the minors
I still think it’s mechanics. He was 95-97 in the Cleveland game.
And in the later innings in ATL.
It would be concerning but he seems to get more velocity as the game goes on. It goes from game to game… which is puzzling… but doesn’t bother me at least too much.
He threw 95 last inning, so he’s getting there.
He threw 94 in the first inning as well.
agree
But if it’s not to conserve arm strength, why does he seem to be throwing harder as the game goes along?
I don’t have an answer for that. But if he were worried about lasting longer, it seems he’d be more concerned with location than velocity. If he’s throwing 5 mph slower consistently on purpose, it seems an ill-advised strategy, and one I hope Eiland & Girardi would have by now disabused him of.
A 90mph slider from Morrow. Joba-esque from the bullpen era.
Robbie Cano, batting like he belongs in the fifth spot!
Who knew!
?
I just meant you thought he should be batting 5th earlier and I disagreed. But he’s done a good job tonight and proving you right.
Sorry if I came off as a dick, I wasn’t trying to be. It’s just that Cano has shown glimpses of amazingness, and if he meets his potential, he could be one of the top offensive forces in the game.
Velocity is important but also changing speeds gets hitters out in front too.
The bigger issue to me, more so than velocity, is that Joba isn’t throwing enough pitches in the strike zone. Whether that’s more nibbling or inconsistency in his mechanics, I’m not sure.
Yeah, personally, I’d much rather have Joba work on throwing his curve and change more often and get better overall command of his fastball. If he can do that, and top out at 94-95, that’s juuuuust fine.
Here we go, now they’re in business.
C’mon now Yanks, start a run.
Is it true Jesus has 2 HR’s tonight so far???
Yes
Posada walks to clog up the bases
And Cano is just an awful hitter because he hit the ball hard Sunday night vs. the Mets and they went right at people. I think they should have optioned him to SWB and given Pena the starting job! Sure Pena’s OPS is only .657 but he’s fast and energetic!
and grittty
All 3 RBI’s.
Whoops. That’s in reply to BigBlue re: Jesus.
Alrigt, now to get some runs on the board, Yanks.
I know this is off subject, but Pete Abe is reporting he heard Jesus has cracked two homers tonight!
Man this is going to be a good DOTF tonight.
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-458313
That’s been established for like two hours. Not trying to be a dick, but it has been posted like a cajillion times.
Gotcha. I just got online.
My bad ya’ll.
Doesn’t Silva’s presences on the DL help the M’s more than hurt them?
He’s a veteran innings eater (TM).
Too bad Silva’s on the DL, the Yankees always seem to hit him well. I was at a game last year where Robbie hit 3 doubles off him.
Aaaaaaah, Swish. Gotta try to go with that one and it’s a double down the line. Let’s go, Nick!
Pujols hit a 445 ft jack.
Given the rest of St. Louis’s line up, why he’s still not walked every single AB baffles me, but I’m glad. Watching him is like crack.
But DeRosa!
Some dude on my softball team called DeRosa “amazing” on Sunday.
I dunno, a 1.000 OBP is a hell of a weapon. Say what you will about the man, but he still makes an out ~60% of the time.
Daaaaaammit. Swish got jammed like crazy on that one–good location by Morrow.
swishalicious seems to be seeing less pitches lately. Is he entering his manditory 2 weeks slump…I can’t wait to see you on the sunny side swish!
I can just imagine the screenwrite:
Handitus: Yo Swisha’ what’s crackin?
Swisher: Not much man, just ’bout to get me some strippers. Let’s meet up
Handitus: Aight, where you at?
Swisher: On the sunny side.
Handitus: Sweet, I’ll be right there!
I smiled at this, cause it happened, just like that.
http://instantcrickets.com/
That’s cold man..that’s cold.
Hehe. I got nothing but love for ya.
Haha Thanx = )
whens the last time swisher got a guy in from third w/less than 2 outs?
They said he’s 1-8, now 1-9 with the bases loaded this year, but has 8 RBI. So, he must be getting a decent number of sac flies.
When’s the last time you looked something up yourself and didn’t just assume because of one recent at bat?
Your name a Boogie Nights reference?
sorry didn’t know people didn’t vent on here
Expect some bad vibes if you criticize the Yankees here.
At least they got one run.
See if Jeter can boost the lead a bit.
I almost thought there was a DP, phew.
Damn they really can’t catch up to his FB.
Which is troubling because he hasn’t shown much command of his breaking ball tonight. Should be able to sit FB.
Cmon Jetes, bring another one home.
Morrow is doing his best Victor Zambrano impersonation.
Acting like a total dickhead?
Heh, no. I meant him being effectively wild (well, relatively effective).
Kay: Velocity isn’t everything, go ask Farnsworth
“he reached back and put extra on it” and it ended 2 feet outside
Here’s hoping that foul off the foot won’t hamper Jeter.
Bye, bye, Derek. Morrow throws HARD.
Aw shucks.
Not exactly a picture perfect way to capitalize on bases loaded and nobody out, but oh well.
sooo frustrating
TJ for Kontos.
really? damn, i was looking forward to him being a spot starter/reliever sometime next year.
Positive: Maybe he’ll increase his velocity
Daaaaaaamn, that sucks.
That just gave me a hemorrhoid.
Bummer, but so it goes.
TINSTAAPP
blew it right by him
Does Kay not get that like…half his audience is too young to get The Honeymooners reference?
If you don’t know the honeymooners…TO THE MOON WITH YOU!!!
ICWUDT
Nice D, Joba. Wow.
Oy.
that should be an error.
sounds like ichiro had a great childhood
Jesus Joba a 3-1 91mph fastball up and over the middle?
Reply fail.
I was going to comment that Ichiro sure is having a great adulthood, no matter what his childhood was like.
Jorge should’ve eaten that one.
Joba is becoming as frustrating to watch as Pettitte.
Easy there…why don’t you sit out the next couple of plays? I keed, I keed.
I didnt say he sucks like Pettitte, well Pettitte doesnt suck he is average, but you cant really argue too much that Joba isnt frustrating to watch.
Oh no, I agree. It’s just that he’s 23, and still learning how to pitch. Pettitte is more frustrating to me because he is better than what he’s showing.
No he’s not.
Semi-agree. So irritating to see someone with such great stuff nibble, give up bombs to people like Francoeur and Cedeno, and make like Steve Trachsel when he’s not really on. Argh.
All of A-Rod’s steals are “tack on” stolen bases.
career leader in moving up on ‘fielders indifference’
That’s it, put him in the bullpen. I’ve had it with this! Joba is not allowed to give up more than 1 run EVER! He doesn’t throw fast enough, velocity is everything. Pettitte and Wang are winners and deserve to be in the rotation. Joba is a bullpen jobber, nothing more.
that’s sarcasm
i smell sarcasm.
settle down Joba
TJ for Kontos? Not what I wanted to hear. Bah.
Honestly, with all the pitchers in the system that we’ve heard about, I’m surprised he’s the only one to have to get it over the past few years.
(I don’t think Brackman counts, since they drafted him knowing he might need it)
Jose freakin Lopez steals???
These SBs are all on Joba. The runners are getting fantastic jumps.
Think the Mariners are running on Joba at all?
I’m watching on Gameday but seriously, Jose Lopez just stole a base?
Fuckin’ A, Joba. It ain’t 1997 Griffey. Put the ball over the plate.
I’ll put you ova the plate!
Joba’s tempo is terrible.
Yikes, OK Joba, get out of this please
Melvin is such an inspiring figure. Knowing Mo was throwing out the first pitch, he knew it would be disrespectful to pitch a scoreless 9th today, so he let the opponent score two runs on him.
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....k_dynrok_1
Anybody think we see Hughes? This would be the perfect time when Joba is done.
Ace now, Hughes later.
Bah, shitty little broken bat dinker.
A real starting piiiitttcccchhhaaaaaa would’ve gotten that out.
Dammit that is frustrating.
Melky likes to play CF by Monument Park.
That was not Melky’s fault.
Everything is Melky’s fault. Unless it’s Al’s fault.
FUCK!
Joba was way too lazy with that ichiro grounder.
It is very frustrating. All of a sudden this inning, his velocity is down, no command of any of his pitches and he’s nibbling. He was filthy last inning. I’m sure this is all part of the maturation process, but I agree when people say it’s frustrating.
I’d hate to believe that things like a HR or a missed groundball could get to Joba.
Dude, he’s given up 3 runs. Every pitcher will struggle and yes it’s part of the maturation process. He are all going to have to deal with it if we want to grow our own pitchers. We’re not just signing Aces, we’re growin’ em too!
3 runs in 5 innings? He’s pitched much worse than just the runs. I woudln’t try to act like Joba’s thrown a good game. But I agree with all the maturation process stuff. That was my original point. I have faith it will pay off in the end! I think Hughes and Joba will both be studs if they stay healthy.
I never said he was pitching great. but if he gets through 6 innings and give up the three, i’m happy for now. He will get better and better, but three runs is not terrible.
How the hell can he nibble if as you say, he’s got no control. Nibbling would imply that he has control and is being too fine.
He’s going for the corners and missing. It is possible to try and nibble and have bad command. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.
Jorge is calling for the pitches in the location he wants. Would you rather he calls for it right down the middle?
I’d rather him challenge hitters, yes. I’m not sure you have any kind of point. I suggest you re-read my OP. For God’s sake I wasn’t even criticizing the kid. He’s been frustrating to watch tonight and that’s a fact. I’m sorry you’re having trouble coping with that.
More to the point… his stuff seemed to completely change (velocity, command) in that inning when Ichiro’s grounder went under his glove and I question whether or not that would un-nerve him.
No trouble, I just thought it was a bit contradictory to say he has no control yet he is nibbling.
Does Kay need to say every fly ball is “driven DEEP to whatever field?” Not necessary.
To answer your question, yes. And I think all of us knew that wasn’t leaving the park. I don’t know why he’s such an ass.
At least your not listening to Sterling. Cause in that case, you wouldn’t have video or audio of the bat on ball contact for confirmation. Nothing worse than having to trust Sterling’s call.
Settle down, Kay. It went to the deepest part of the ballpark.
Come on boys lets get a run. I’m tired of this ND bullshit for Jobski.
Thank Mo!!!! Ok Offense score some runs puhlease!!!!!
Is he healthy or not? It’s june, and hes still throwing his fastball at 91 or 92 the majority of the time. Obviously, he’s not going to throw 98-100, but last year he was consistently at 95-96 as a starter. I’m not convinced his shoulder is 100 percent.
The facts are undeniable that his velocity vis-a-vis his transition to starter is down significantly–if one pulled all the game logs off Brooks Baseball, you’d likely find he average around 95 in his starts last season and topped out typically at 99, sometimes 100–this year he’ll average about 92.5 and top out at 96 (maybe hit 97 once. Now before the inevitable flames begin:
1. He’s clearly still capable of being a very effective pitcher, maybe even a great pitcher, sitting at 92.5. No one on my end is screaming he needs to be throwing 97 to be good.
2. It’s obvious he should, of course, remaining in the rotation.
But it’s simply undeniable that the velocity is down significantly–it’s not small sample size, it’s a real trend and it’s consistent–again, Brooks Baseball–Joba’s velocity has basically been flat all year.
So it’s not a question of if, it’s a question of why. I tend to side more with the folks who think it’s mechanical. I don’t think it’s “learning to pitch”–he was learning last year and he get rear back and hit 100 if the needed to–this year he can’t. But I simply can’t fathom that they’d be sending him out there hurt. So I think it’s either (a) mechanical or (b)psychologically but not physically related to the shoulder.
And I sure hope he gets those few MPHs back. Again, no argument he can’t be very good with what he has now–but deep down, folks who see this kid as special, as a guy with the potential to contend for the Cy Young every year–know he’s not the same guy at 92 as he is at 96.
Joba topped out at 99-100mph as a starter last season? I don’t think so.
Just look at the game logs, it’ll take you five minutes. Routinely topped out at 99 as a starter. Now that might mean he hit it once–but you check his game logs, 98-99 is his typical max fastball.
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/.....evDate=625
There’s an example: his start against the Pirates last year. Average fastball at 95, max at 99. His other starts are similar.
Just a few examples, these just being the 2nd, 3rd and 4th starts of his career, all from Brooks Baseball:
6/8/08 v KC: average fastball: 96.22 max fb: 100.2
6/13/08 @ Hous: average: 94.57 max: 98.4
6/19/09 v. SD: average: 95.12 max: 98.8
The Mariners have like…three hard hit balls all year.
All night, rather.
50 strikes 38 balls = not so good.
True. If Joba ever learns to mimic CC and attack the strike zone while keeping the ball down, we’ll have one hell of an ace.
It’s too bad he’s only 23 and he’ll never get any better…
Yeah, and too bad there are people like you on this blog who like to make other people miserable.
What? I was being sarcastic. Joba’s got an absolute world of potential and I am incredibly excited for him to meet it.
Wasted potential!
Mimic CC and throw left-handed? Joba’s actually a natural left-hander, but his father taught him to throw with his right. Can you imagine?
Serious answer: he’s a kid, he showed the command last year, I think he’ll be fine, it’s just going to take time. Not all great pitchers spring fully-formed from the head of Zeus.
And there it is, in stereo! Thanks, guys. I knew there was a reason I stopped commenting here, and now I remember why. But no, the place is richer for your enlightened comments.
Wait, what? Relax.
Everyone just COOL OUT!!1!!1
Seattle has a good bullpen. I’d like to get another run off Morrow here.
What a relief seeing the stadium full again.
We cannot blame the park today for Joba, right?
How he does in the 6th will determine what I think of the start. Far too many baserunners, but he hasn’t exactly been awful.
not awful, ATROCIOUS!!!1!
Word, all 8 of their runs have not been due to the bandbox. Oh wait, that’s a three, not an 8… People are acting like he’s given up 5 thru 5.
it seems like he has, but he hasnt and only has what 86 pitches? its an ugly game to watch
Everyone hates Ozzie.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4298278
. . and I thought it was just me.
Title of Article: ChiSox’s Guillen least popular in SI poll
Article reads: 26 percent of major leaguers polled voted for the combustible Piniella, followed by Guillen at 21 percent
So hes not least popular
You should send an angry e-mail to ESPN, demanding a retraction and an apology for Ozzie Guillen.
Nah, it’s just a flat out lie/manipulation/ bad editing
For the love of Christ, Robbie, do not GIDP.
yea, I’m worried
Got what you asked for, happy
Wow, it’s time to burn Cano at the stake.
well, I guess a strikeout is better than a GIDP
Can we get a hit with risp?
Why start now?
Cmon Robinson!
damn, cmon JoPo
dang. I fear Cano missed his pitch already this AB. Bloop single is needed..
and that is why Alex walks so damn much….
Cano wasnt even close .
Wow, it is time to move Robbie down in the lineup.
Well, it is better than a DP.
Cano’s swing was almost as amazing as finding out that Michael Jackson really did have Vitiligo.
Melky striking out would be like finding out Michael Jackson was Gay. No big surprise there.
This is not a good game by the Yanks. Should be at least 5-3.
Cano could use the A-Rod treatment. A few days off.
Why is he batting 5th?
Because Swisher doesn’t hit well there and matsui can’t handle the 5th spot. As for Posada, your guess is as good as mine.
Could be that R-L-R-L thing. Tex, Posada, Swish are S
1) No. Cano is 26 with no hip troubles
2) He is batting fifth because he is a fucking beast
Guarantee you Francesa will bitch about Joba, yet compliment Morrow tomorrow.
He compliments the Mets and the Red Sox. He doesn’t care about the Brendon Morrows of the world.
Dont forget about Zach Duke, he could win 15 games on the Yankees
give me his last 5 starts!!1!
PLLEAAASSEEEE godzilla! Get a hit or bb!!
It’s up to Matsui now…
Chris Jakubauskas actually got his second career Major League victory in a start against the Boston red Sox.
Cano needs to bad 7th through 9th…maybe even leadoff. The guy is an amazing hitter with no men on base but has an absolute mental block when he can get rbi’s right now…
I agree totally except he needs to bat 6th or 7th, not 9th.
Am I the only one here who is sick and tired of watching Joba pitch????
It’s the same fuckin shit EVERY start:
- too many pitches
- too many balls out of the zone
- velocity is always down
- breaking stuff is EXTREMELY inconsistent
- tempo of game is awful
- MAX 6 innings pitched
- consistently laborious efforts
Where is the “progress”???? If Joba is this great starting pitcher who everyone needs to be patient with and allow him to grow and develop…shouldn’t we expect to see SOME “postive” signs sometime this season???? Joba is REGRESSING, not improving – and he’s killing the bullpen in the progress.
But hey…we should keep him in the rotation because “a starter is always more valuable than a starter” – yea, but that argument only works if its a GOOD starter. Joba is NOT a good starter – and to be honest, does anyone know that he EVER was??? All we know of Joba is a bullpen guy, and my recollection (although not perfect) is that he wasn’t exactly blowing away hitters as a starter in AAA (as a reliever, yes, starter, not so much).
Instead of forcing Joba to start and Hughes to relieve, why don’t the Yankees “braintrust” swap both pitchers and put them where they belong??? Oh that’s right, that would mean the Yankees would have to admit they made a “mistake” – and lord knows, that shit aint happenin’.
HERE’S TO MEDIOCRITY!!!!!
i guess you didnt see his last start moron…
Am I the only one here who is sick and tired of watching Joba pitch????
Yes.
Oaktag
You must have worked really hard on that
April Fools?
Wow, you’re nuts. Wrong. The only thing right about this post is that hughes should probably be starting.
1. Why don’t you go get yourself a big, tall glass of calm down juice?
2. As a starter, not including tonight, Joba has a 3.32 ERA and 143 Ks in 141 innings. In what world is that mediocre?
1. Where can I get that.
2. If having a top 10 ERA in the AL is mediocre, sign me up.
1. Your local liquor store. I keep it on tap myself.
Calm down juice? LMFAO
Word. He’s no Porcello.
Let me teach Alex a lesson!!!1
Are you trying to get people to call into your radio show again?
I agree 100%. Joba was terrible his last start vs. Atlanta where he went into the 7th. His ERA is less than 4 which is awful in the AL East. And he only strikes out 8 per 9 innings! DOES IT GET ANY MORE MEDIOCRE THAN THAT? I like your argument about good starter and special reliever. Steve Phillips made the same argument on ESPN and he knows his baseball. JOBA TO THE BULLLPEN!!!!!!
Ah, another B-Jobber. You can always tell who they are by their blinding idiocy.
Let’s go, ‘Dek.
If he doesn’t get a hit here, how many people will be clamoring for Hinske/Shelley to DH tomorrow?
Ace.
Mo to DH…?
wakamatsu brings in jakubauskas
always wanted to say that…
I really wish Cano could get a clutch hit, but i honestly can’t remember a time he did. Come on Sui, pick him up
matsui is getting killed on the trike zone by the ump
matsui will K
Fuck
GOD DAMNIT MATSUI!
Damn, 0-9 with RISP
Matsui=Big Papi
Well another inning of great AB’s by the dominant bottom of the line up.
When Matsui stops trying to pull everything he will be the hitter he once was. But for now, he is like throwing dice in craps.
this team is frustrating to watch.
Did you watch the past weekend?
I would kill for a quick inning
hold up there OJ…
If the Yankees lose, look to the Bottom of the 4th and getting only 1 lousy run and to the bottom of the 5th where they took the donut.
0-9 with RISP and horrible plate discipline. Not conducive for wins.
ERRRRR! When will Jorge figure out what the kid wants to throw..
Joe needs the pen ready for this inning.
I’m really getting tired of Joba and Posada not being on the same page. Joba should throw what posada puts down more often then not.
Jorge should know what Joba wants to throw, IMO.
my god!
Thank you for the slide of fail, Cedeno.
I love how Kay can weave food into anything. Instead of saying that’s the final out of the inning, he says “That’ll cost Morrow lunch.” I mean wtf?
Another little dinky dunk hit.
Oh come on. I hate this move.
Joba outta there. Coke in.
5.1 IP.
Joba is terribly frustrating to watch painful why nibble with his arm no excuse
Four cheap hits by the M’s – the two by Gutierrez; the one under the glove of Joba by ichiro; and the last hit just now by Johjima.