Jun
03
Report: Wang to start tomorrow
ByAccording to multiple reports, Chien-Ming Wang will make his first start since April 18th tomorrow against the Rangers. Phil Hughes will work out of the bullpen for the time being. Wang’s three relief outings since returning from the DL have gotten progressively better, so the writing for his return to the rotation has been on the wall for over a week now. I imagine once Brian Bruney and Damaso Marte return from injury, Hughes will return to Triple-A Scranton and continue working as a starter.
I was looking forward to Hughes tomorrow. I wonder what made the switch since the Yanks had said Hughes would at least start tomorrow.
Not that I agree or disagree with this (I haven’t decided yet), but this is a complete reversal of everything Girardi has said in recent days, isn’t it?
It sure is. I’d really like to know the reasoning behind this because I just don’t see it. Guess there is something we don’t know yet.
But Hughes to the pen is a move I sure don’t like.
I agree that one shouldn’t generally mess with your Ace’s schedule. But perhaps they want to save CC for Tampa and/or fear bringing Wang back against the best offense in the AL? Then again, the Rangers aren’t exactly the Pittsburgh Pirates…
Yeah, but messing around with Hughes and CC? I don’t see how much is gained by that. Hopefully I’m wrong as most of the time, but I just don’t see the reasoning behind this move.
Hopefully it’s only temporary. Give Wang a turn or two in the rotation to make sure he’s good, and then option Hughes back down to get him back on the metronome.
Agree.
Yea I would expect to see Hughes back in Scranton no later then mid June.
That’s clearly what they are thinking…but not sending him down yet is interesting. I guess if Bruney or Marte were ready, maybe they’d send Hughes down.
But by the look of Pettitte tonight, I sorta feel like they may keep Hughes around for a while…they have to hedge against Wang continuing to suck, and Pettitte breaking down.
Ugh, no. Start Hughes in the minors wtf.
Not a fan of this move, honestly. I think this opens Phil up to injury risks and I’d rather have him be getting stretched out in Scranton than getting inconsistent use and irregular rest in the ‘pen in the Bronx. This move seems to be a consequence of the knee-jerk move of bringing Wang back.
It definitely is a consequence of the panic move. But I’m going to hope it is temporary, just while Wang gets back into the rotation. Insurance for a disaster start, so that Aceves can be used in more high-leverage innings?
Yeah, that sounds about right.
If Joe uses Phil like he’s been using Alfredo, multiple innings, high leverage, etc., I’ll be more in favor of it.
This move seems to be a consequence of the knee-jerk move of bringing Wang back.
how so?
Wang is ready. he goes into the rotation. they may have kept Hughes around anyway.
what does it matter if Wang was coming up from AAA or from the bullpen?
“I was looking forward to Hughes tomorrow. I wonder what made the switch since the Yanks had said Hughes would at least start tomorrow.”
hughes wasnt starting tomorrow…cc was
that’s true. Why the fuck would you toy with CC who has been dominating lately?
CC pitched on three days rest last year and dominated still, I’m sure he can still be dominant on 6 days.
i just feel it is better to keep him on rhythm although I get your point that he dominates whenever he wants to.
is an off day “toying” with a starter?
sometimes starters pitch with an extra day of rest.
this is a perfectly normal occurance for a starting pitcher.
i don’t get the hand wringing.
I don’t get it either. What about a six-man rotation when Bruney and Marte come back? Is that insane?
That makes the move even more dubious. This one came totally unexpected to me.
I thought Hughes was gonna start Fri against TB
Don’t know what to make of this. I totally thought the whole Wang situation had not been handled appropriately and I understood his frustration; but I certainly don’t see the point in upsetting the apple cart. If it ain’t broke, etc.
This should help Phil keep his innings count down, I guess. But it is certainly not the best thing for his development as a starter. I hope you are right, Mike, and the Yankees eventually send him back to AAA until they need him to start for the big team again. He can be great. He needs as much experience as is possible to maximize his potential.
The right move although I’m not crazy about seeing Hughes in the pen with Andy, Joba and maybe sometimes AJ he is probably going to get a lot of long relief innings.
But still be under his pitch limit.
From a management stand point, it’s probably the best move to put Wang back in the rotation and either Hughes or Joba to the pen. If they didn’t do it this way, Hughes and Joba would be at their innings limits around the same time, at which point you would assume Wang would take over one spot and —- for the other?? This is the smartest move in order to get maximum innings out of the pitchers we have (assuming no further injuries)
Good point.
This is the smartest move in order to get maximum innings out of the pitchers we have
exactly.
why have Hughes dominating AAA while you are losing games with inferior relievers.
other teams do this all the time.
BTW, what if Phil is successful in the bull-pen? How long until Francesa starts screaming that Phil should be relegated to “Teh Eighth!!!”
About 5 minutes or so.
Less.
In his infamous piece posted here some days ago he said something like: “What has Hughes to do with this? He is A STARTING PITCHER!!!!!”
CHIEN MING WANG IS A STARTING PITCHER!!!
Hughes is a starting pitcher!
Hmm. I’m glad to see Wang back in the rotation if the Yanks are confident he’s got his stuff/mechanics back. At the same time I’m worried that if Hughes is good in the bullpen, there are going to be lots of arguments about keeping him there all year.
I like the idea of keeping him in the bullpen at least for Wang’s start tomorrow though so he could be used as a long man in case of disaster.
I imagine once Brian Bruney and Damaso Marte return from injury, Hughes will return to Triple-A Scranton and continue working as a starter.
==
I would venture a guess that Mr Hughes will find himself on the Scranton Shuttle as soon as Wang shows that he can not-suck. Or so I hope, anyway. I will hate it if he is relegated to the mop-up role for any appreciable length of time.
===
EDIT: I am wrong. This from Abraham:
Ugh. Cue the H-Jobbers…
Hughes is a temporary bullpen fix, Cashman said. He’ll be a starter long term.
That’s the important part.
second that
Hughes is a
temporarybullpen fix, Cashman said. He’ll be a starterlong term./H-Jobber
Just wanted to point out:
B-Jobber = bullpen + joba
So it would be B-Hughers. Could we go with B-Hosers? Is that close enough?
I like what you did there, JoePow. Fits the phrasing architecture, but still manages to be slightly juvenile and blue.
I’m tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside, and I approve of this meme.
B-Hoser works for me. Well done.
somehow, B-Hobber sounds better to me…the ‘job’ part of it, per se…
B-Jobber that is. stupid computer
I still want to know who you are.
Who were you before you stole that name from me?
Via Pete Abe:
UPDATE, 4:49 p.m.: Hughes is a temporary bullpen fix, Cashman said. He’ll be a starter long term.
wait guys…what if since wang is on an 80-85 pitch count, hughes is only in the pen until tomorrow? he comes in when wang is done and it’s like a throw day for him….after this, he is sent down for melancon maybe? that would be kinda genius, no?
They said the other day he’s only good for 80. Of course, if the sinker is right, thats a solid 6-7 innings.
well yeah, but you get my drift…hughes might just be in the pen for a day…mainly precautionary, and shouldnt hinder his progress
here’s hoping!
That’s not a bad idea.
why thank you…hopefully cashman feels the same way
Some of you people have got to stop acting like you know more about the inner workings of the yankees than the yankees themselves. None of you have probably ever seen a Phil Hughes medical report nor do any of you know what does or does not put Phil at risk regarding injuries.
Just sit back and let it play out. You never know, maybe you find out that Phil is a phenomenal reliever, and that can always be an option if he doesn’t pan out as an top of the line starter.
Yes, it’s amazing how smart some of these baseball fans are on the internet without any insider knowledge about why the Yankees make certain decisions.
I’m pretty sure no one is claiming insider knowledge. We can only evaluate the FO decisions based on the information available. If/when more info becomes available, we’ll adjust our opinions accordingly (or we won’t, based on the nature of said new info).
Thank god you guys are here commenting about how other people shouldn’t comment because you have inside knowledge about how they have no knowledge and should just not discuss things when the people actually making the decisions have more knowledge than they do. Conversation is stupid.
+ all the money in my wallet
jsb, if I was to give you some money from my wallet, would that help ease the pain?
I am thrilled. I hope Wanger is back to his old self again.
So that sets up Wang, CC and Joba to pitch in Boston next week. Probably against Beckett, Wakefield and Penny.
The Yanks aren’t moving Hughes to pen in any meaningful way; they just don’t want to send him back to minors until they are sure Wang won’t get bombed again.
+1
panic move. no it isn’t. what are they suppose to have a 19 game winner be a long man, without finding out if he can return to his previous succcess?
Hughes is 22, as slong as he is healthy any pitching will help him. many stud starters starting in the majors in the pen…
only logical move or keeping the likes of veras and tomko on the roster or using them in meaningful innings is a formula for success!!!
If wang bombs then Hughes will go back into the rotation…..
I dont mind that Wang is back in the rotation but why push back CC of all people?? The Yankees are royally messing up the Wang situation.
apparently to separate the lefties…
or set up a preferred match up against boston?
I dont mind that Wang is back in the rotation but why push back CC of all people??
maybe b/c a win against Tampa is more valuable than a win against Texas?
I just got a bad feeling that all this is setting up for a disastrous return for Wang. Cash panics and pulls Wang from the rotation again and re-inserts Hughes. I’m 50% sure that’s how its gonna play out.
And as insurance if Wang stinks up the joint, we have Hughes ready to go… That’s why they’ll probably keep Hughes here for a couple of turns.
I’m honestly more interested in them jettisioning Veras so they can give Melancon a shot up here again and see how he does — starting in low leverage situations and hopefully doing well enough to be a viable 8th inning option…
Only time will tell if this is a good move. If Wang can be himself and Hughes can be a key part of the bullpen until Marte/Bruney or trade arrives.. If Wang bombs , this is the continuous disaster of Chien-Ming Wang
Regardless what a nice problem to have too much quality starting pitching.
thank you Mr. Cashman.
+8,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
this is what no one is realizing or looking at.
The luxury of too much starting pitching is unlikely to last for long, trust me… This is a GOOD problem for us to have!
More important is a real fix for the 8th…
What if Wang bombs.. i hope they have thought abt that scenario… very bad move.. i dont think Wang is ready yet
Then Hughes comes in just like he did after Clemens in the playoffs two years ago
So, say Wang stinks it up tomorrow. He and Phil just swap places again, right?
Now is that fair? Your only going to give Wang one start?
I mean if Wang is as bad as he was then maybe, but you have to give him more then one start.
Why mess up the good Mo… we’v been on a run.. Phil has been decent-average-good recently… the next 4-5 starts he could have really learned something… bad long-term move
I know this has become a crime, but for once can we think a little about the current Yankees. If Wang is right he is better for this rotation.
long term they need to get both Wang and Hughes going. Since Hughes can be sent down and Wang cannot, this is the move that has to be made to get them both going long-term
By stinks it up, I mean he does what he did at the start of the year. if he goes 5 innings and gives up 4-5 runs, I’d be alright w/that and say “Alright, let’s build on this.” But if he gets lit up like a fuckin’ Christmas tree like he did in April, then I’d switch ‘em.
I see your point, but only if that happens in the first inning. If he goes through 3 or 4 fine then gives up 4-5 runs then you have to take stamina/pitch count into consideration
totally agree.
I can agree with that.
It’s pretty easy if he is really good or really bad. But what do you do if makes two starts and goes 5IP/4ER and 6IP/5ER? That would be be much better than his April starts obviously, but worse than what Hughes would likely give you. I guess you would still keep him in the rotation but it would be a less than than perfect sutuation.
Yeah, I see what you mean. I guess you’d have to evaluate those starts based on how he looked, too–velocity, drop on his sinker, movement on the slider, etc.
You obviously have to look at the way he is pitching. It’s the same with Hughes, you could argue that he has pitched better than 5.4 ERA, but it just doesn’t show in the boxscore. If Wang makes good pitches and just doesn’t get the results, I’m fine with keeping him in the rotation.
Yeah, it’s definitely gonna be tough if he takes a Hughes-like path with a few awesome starts and a few shitty ones.
more than one start: sure. just not against boston…
The move is good, as far as I can tell. I don’t think Wang is going to get more than 5 innings in tomorrow on a pitch count of 80. I expect you see Phil in 3-4 innings after Wang’s 4-5 innings. Like spring training. Repeat as necessary until:
1) Aceves has a more defined role (just my speculation, but this might be the secondary motivation behind the move)
2) Wang is off a pitch count
3) Bullpen help (Bruney, Marte) arrives
Then Phil goes to AAA and all is right in the world. But that’s saying nothing about injuries.
I won’t like it much if Girardi insists on using Phil for single innings, or even worse, batter to batter. I don’t think that’s going to happen, though.
+ 1
I bet Pete Abraham is doing backflips now…
Color me flummoxed
The reason this is happening right now is this:
1)His next scheduled start is against the Red Socks in Fenway
2)If he can only go 70-80 pitches in that game, you could blow your bullpen in the first game of the series.
3)If Wang is on, he’s better right now than Hughes. This game will be a test to see if he really is on
Hughes has had a bit of wildness to him yet and obviously doesn’t have every pitch working. I’m more comfortable with Wang making that start in Fenway than Hughes as long as it’s the Wang we all know and love
2)If he can only go 70-80 pitches in that game, you could blow your bullpen in the first game of the series.
what does it matter if its the first game of the series? They play 12 games in a row
At the same time I’m worried that if Hughes is good in the bullpen, there are going to be lots of arguments about keeping him there all year.
==================
Don’t be. What, you, me, the rest of the folks around here, bloggers, sports writers and talk radio hosts argue is irrelevant to what the Yankees are going to do.
Exactly, the Yankees have shown that they couldn’t care less what the media thinks, they’re going to stick to their plan
but their plan seems to change by the minute
or maybe their plan was to change it by the minute
A small part of me would actually love to see The Franchise be a success in the bullpen. It would debunk the ridiculous myth that Joba should be in the bullpen because that is who he is. There is a myth that Joba has the mentality for the bullpen but Phil does not.
I, personally, wouldn’t be opposed to Phil becoming an excellent reliever. In no way shape or form am I saying give up on him as a starter, but if 1 out of the 3 (Kennedy, Hughes, and Joba) becomes a Cy Young candidate and another becomes a dominant bullpen arm, who could one day maybe replace MO.
I also think that out of the three pitchers, that Phil has the stuff that best translates to the bullpen. This is not to say that Joba doesn’t have great bullpen stuff, but you are also limiting what Joba can throw. In Phil’s case, how great would it be to see Phil come in throwin 96 and not even worrying about a cutter. Throw all inhibition to the side of the road and just come guns blazin.
Finally, as a parent, all you want to provide your children with is choices. As a General Manager, all you want to provide the manager with is choices. The fact that Joe Girardi has so many quality choices to turn to at each position on the field says a lot about the type of job that Cash has done with putting together this team.
PHIL TO THE 8TH LOL
right, take a 22 year old kid who has been a highly touted (one of the best in the game) starting piching prospects and waste him in the bullpen because his stuff translates well there?
obviously that is not true since he has been one of the highest rated prospects as a starter at the age of 20,21. if any of the three players go to the bullpen it is kennedy because he has shown nothing at the ml level to make it seem he can be a starter. Hughes, joba, kennedy, name some guy on another team who is 24 or younger, does not og to the bullpen until they have failed as a starter multiple times.
zero teams would be putting hughes or joba in the bullpen.
My thesis was constructed for right now. Long term, I want Phil in the rotation because I believe he can be an excellent, top of the line guy.
For the time being, we have the luxury to be able to see if Phil can in fact be successful in the bullpen. If he can, it doesn’t mean that you keep him there forever and throw away the key. It just becomes another alternative if he doesn’t pan out which is entirely possible.
They have to define temporary… regardless of his results if he gets sent down to AAA then i guess i am ok… if Phil does well and he sticks then the innings ramp up issue will come up for next year too.. this looks like the ideal time to develop Phil, 3 rotation spots are locked.. Joba has been good or great and the 5th started to try and develop your ace.. i agree Wang gets shunted but he can stick in the longman role.. this is unnecessary jerking around for the kid…
How about ” unnecessary jerking around” for Wang? A 38 game winner that you want to make a long man to develop a rookie who is going to have the 5th spot in the rotation next year.
zero teams would be putting hughes or joba in the bullpen.
you mean except for us…today…and last year…
(oh for the love of Mo i’m just kidding i knew he meant long term…)
Color me not thrilled. Hughes is probably the better option short-term and he’s certainly a bigger part of the long-term plans.
how quickly we forget what Wang has done for us.
Hughes should be taken out if the Yankees feel that it puts out the 5 best starters they have. The Yankees want to win now too, so if keeping Hughes in the pen does that in their mind, that’s what they’ll do.
Wow, I can’t get over the support of hughes going to the pen. Putting poor precious Joba in there might as well be sacrilege, but it’s ok to dump our other stud pitching prospect into the bullpen to deteriorate?
it’s not the same dude…hughes is going there temporarily as a safety net for wang if he flops in his next few starts…he will probably not be the “8th inning guy”….just getting long relief innings to keep his stamina up…then once wang is fine and bruney/marte are back, hughes is down in scranton getting his starts in
so yeah, take it easy champ
I didn’t think there was much support above. All I know is if Girardi so much as warms Hughes up back-to-back even once, he’ll lose a full letter grade on my (very important, universally weight-bearing) year end report card.
The “Hughes Rules”?
Cashmoney is on the Kay show now. Said it’s basically a two week trial. If Wang is good, Phil goes to SWB.
Good move to correct the mess they created.
i disagree that they created a mess.
everyone EXPECTED them to create a mess.
the “mess” never actually happened though.
what’s the mess? Wang has gotten progressively better pitching out of the pen. Hughes is getting valuable experience and they have been winning his starts. team is in first place.
aside from our internet “pain”, what exactly happened that was bad?
thank melvin
oh hey, lets not get ahead of ourselves
That’s good to hear. Don’t want to mess with Phil much longer than that.
Any word from Cash why CC’s start got pushed back a day?
“Manager Joe Girardi said he pushed back Sabathia instead of switching Wang for Hughes’ scheduled start on Friday because he wanted to insert the right-handed Wang in between lefties Andy Pettitte and Sabathia.”
They had the two lefties back-to-back for sime time now, so this makes sense. Plus with Hughes followed by Joba there was always the danger of two short starts that taxed the pen.
“Plus with Hughes followed by Joba there was always the danger of two short starts that taxed the pen.”
Great point I was thinking the same thing when I looked at the schedule.
But it wouldn’t be Hughes followed by Joba since it’d be Wang followed by Joba.
The other important point from the Cashman-Kay interview:
Cash said the “argument” that the team is somehow better served by any sort of roster permutation that puts Joba in the bullpen is “invalid”.
He pooh-poohed every attempt by Kay to suggest either Joba or Hughes helps the team more by being in the 8th inning. All of them.
I don’t like Hughes in the pen, but it seems like the only move to make because you don’t want to send Phil back down yet since the Yankees aren’t positive that Wang is ready to be successful in the rotation yet. I just hope we don’t have another B-Jobber issue, I guess in this case it would be B-Hugher.
i don’t hate this move much at all. Wang had to start sooner or later, and as long as phil is only in the pen for a short period of time, then it won’t hurt his development. Hughes has been acceptable, but definitely not great this year. I don’t like how cc gets pushed back because of this, though.
I love this for two reasons
1. Aceves – hughes – mo for a few weeks would be an awesome pen.
2. Opposing teams will have to study all kinds of scouting reports if they don’t know who’s going to start when, adding a slight edge to us.
Also innings limits are a non issue with 7 starters! Whoo hoo.
Ok that was three. Sue me.
you’re over thinking the scouting report thing, you’re not fooling other teams.
i dont see the innings limit thing, only Joba and Hughes have limits. And it looks like Joba will have to switched to the pen and probably exceed his limit, while Hughes (depending how long hes in the pen) will for the 3rd year in a row, not reach the innings number they want
yes he will–he either goes back to scranton to start or takes wang’s spot back…either way, he has to get his innings this year.
We’re also facing the hard part of our schedule these next two weeks — Tampa, Boston, Mets…then after that cake.
Good show, Cash.
Someone posted a couple of days ago about a bull pen with two long men (Wang and Aceves). I think now we do Hughes and Aceves and then when Joba gets near his limit it is Joba and Aceves. The big thing though is making sure we get enough innings out of Joba and Phil
EXACTLY!!!!!!
So many disrespect of Wang…
he will win over 12 games this year, and be a 20 game winner next year as our #2.
i wonder if the rush to get wang back into the rotation has something to do with the yanks looking forward to shutting joba down at the end of august or whenever he reaches his innings “limit”? i call it a rush because the team is definitely not broke right now
So Wang taking Hughes’ spot has to do with Joba’s inning limit?
no idea. just speculating. having 6 starters is a luxury, but if joba is going to the bullpen/getting shut down when he approaches his limit, having both wang and hughes becomes a necessity
I dont anyone thought Wang was staying in the bullpen all year, whether its tomorrow, July, or August they were going to try to get Wang in the rotation.
i agree. just not so soon, and not when the rotation is clicking
i still have this hope/dream/prayer/fantasy that the yankees plan to have joba in the playoff rotation (assuming we get there) and will figure out a way to make this happen
I think the hope/dream/prayer/fantasy of having Joba in the playoff BULLPEN is farfetched and possible under the most unlikeliest of scenarios but dangerous.
I think having Joba in the playoff ROTATION is utterly impossible with out Joba getting injured/shutdown for a good 6-8 weeks. Not going to happen unless we change course 180 degrees and say “Fuck innings limits! NOLAN RYAN STYLE, BABY!!!”
I hope it works out, but for some reason I am reminded of a few years ago when Matsui and Sheffield were shoe-horned into the lineup at the end of the season, with disastrous results. We’ll see.
Two weeks. That’s all.
If Wang bombs after a couple of starts, Hughes goes back in the rotation. If Wang is fine, Hughes goes back to starting in Scranton and we bring up Melancon (or activate Bruney).
Calm your pretty head, dear. Ol’ Tommie’s here to make it all better, baby.
There should always be an opening for Wang.
TWSS!!!
BANGWAGON
With the pitching surplus, the Yanks had to make a move at some point. They decided they did not want to wait any longer, and made the move to put Wang back in the rotation. No matter what they decided, one of the starters was bound to get the short end of the stick, and Hughes is the low man on the totem pole. Sometimes you just gotta wait your turn. It is a long season and I would not be surprised to see Hughes starting on the big league level at some point again this year.
Big Unit goes for 300 tonight.
I think deep down none of us thought we’d get through CC, AJ, CMP, and Andy “my back hurts when i do this” Pettitte ALL YEAR with no injuries or missed starts. We knew IPK or Philly had a great chance of making some spot starts this year (at a minimum).
When CMP came back, we all still knew we had 70% of the season to go (80% if we’re lucky!), and all those risks were still there.
Philly learned a bunch, showed his stuff, and assuming Wang Chung is back to being the worm killer, he’ll go back to SWB in two weeks and work on whatever was ailing him, strengthen his arm, and keep hoping he can come back to NY to prove he has it.
We shouldn’t be talking about this week, we should be arguing about next year, and if we’re going to re-sign Andy (same contract?), get another big name, trade a kid or two, or have CC-CMP-AJ-Joba-Philly as our fanfrickintastic starting rotation.
In the meantime, can we )(#@$*_@)(#*$_ DFA ANGEL BERROA for ANYBODY that can run, hit or field? If Cody isnt coming right back, and X is still not right, can we bring up somebody from the 40 just to get them some experience sitting on the bench?! Cause I can’t see Angel developing anymore sitting there getting old, when one of these young kids would LOVE three weeks, 20 AB’s and 5 innings in a blow out on the field…
My friends the “mess” they created is a “mess” that a lot of teams would love to have.
http://www.tutor2u.net/blog/files/bingo.jpg
Steve (different one) +1
TSJC: I find it amusing that you think the Yankees plan is to shut Joba down sometime before September. I am just as confident their plan is for Joba to be in the post-season bullpen. Now, he might well be shut down, but I can’t imagine that is the actual plan.
I think the yankees will skip starts for Joba so that when it is september he won’t get shut down. If the yanks make the playoffs then all bets are off regardless if Joba had reached his innings limt. The Yanks would not hesitate to use him as the 4th starter in the playoffs. Personally i like the idea of Hughes in the pen and his stuff would only be better for 1 or 2 innings stints with his fastball topping out at 95 mph. If Wang gets things in order, then send Hughes down and call him back in September to contribute in the bullpen. You never know, Hughes may could very well be the heir apparent to mo.