Revving the mill: Xavier Nady, Nick Swisher

Double plays, errors, Josh Johnson doom Yankees
Scott Proctor: Recovering Alcoholic

As July approaches, the pace of rumors about potential trades will increase. A lot of what we hear and read is simply noise, and as we have in the past, we’re not going to reproduce every single rumor involving the Yanks. What we will do is highlight the ones from reliable sources that carry some newsworthiness. Sometimes, we’ll highlight rumors of what the Yanks don’t plan to do as well.

Today, we have one of the latter stories, this one from Buster Olney. In his Saturday blog post, Olney dropped in a “heard this” note about the Yanks’ July plans:

The Yankees are unlikely to trade Nick Swisher or Xavier Nady after Nady returns — probably in the first week of July — because of the other needs of their club, and because it’s unlikely they would get anything close to full value for Nady if they put him on the market, in light of his elbow injury. The Yankees had discussions with other teams about Nady during the offseason, after signing Mark Teixeira.

This is an interesting item because, honestly, it doesn’t make too much sense. Getting Xavier Nady will do wonders for the Yanks’ depth, but is he really that integral a piece that they need to hold onto him? I don’t think so.

When Nady returns in a week or two, the Yankees will have a very deep team. They can jettison Angel Berroa or option Ramiro Peña back to the minors. Either way, depending upon the lineup, they’ll have a decent backup catcher, Brett Gardner or Melky Cabrera, Berroa or Peña or Cody Ransom and Xavier Nady or Nick Swisher. Most teams would kill for that depth.

One of the benefits though of depth is recognizing when to use it to fill in parts. The Yankees may not, as Olney reports, be able to get “full value” for Nady, but that’s a rather amorphous concept right now. Nady is set to be a free agent at the end of the season, and if the Yankees don’t trade him now, they won’t get anything from him. They aren’t likely to offer him arbitration. In a weak economy, corner outfielders tend to suffer, and Nady would likely accept arbitration. Meanwhile, the Yankees aren’t keen on signing 31-year-old outfielders to multi-year contracts right now.

Trading Nady this July, if he comes back and proves himself healthy, makes good sense. If they can get a piece they need — a reliever, perhaps, to solidify the bullpen — I wouldn’t be opposed to moving Nady. Right now, in fact, that might very well be where his value lies.

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Double plays, errors, Josh Johnson doom Yankees
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  • http://nybaseballdigest.com Mike Silva

    It’s funny how you questioned NYBD in the comments section the other day but quote Olney. NYBD when they had this info over the winter.

    http://nybaseballdigest.com/?p=5968

    • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

      Huh? Everyone had that over the winter. This is a new report, based on what has happened thus far this season.

    • Kevin

      How about we trade Melky while he’s at his peak value, let Matsui go,and have an outfield of Damon (lf)Gardner(cf) and Nady (rf). Nick Swisher can be our primary DH and back up at first and the OF.

      • Blacky

        I see the Yankees going after Jason Bay this off season. I PRAY TO GOD we dont go after Holliday. I think if Damons at a good price, a 2 year deal wouldnt be out of the question. Itll also depend a lot on if Jackson gets called up this season, even if on the bench & how Gardner does.

  • Trevor

    If they trade Nady, wouldn’t that mean we have to continue to watch Swisher in RF everyday?
    One of the reasons why I’m looking forward to Nady’s return is because Swisher is just awful in the field a career .240 hitter and IMO just someone who should not be playing everyday.
    Nady is no ALL*Star but in comparison to Swisher I rather have Nady almost everyday in RF.

    • Accent Shallow

      And this is why you don’t run the team. Swisher is a better player than Nady, because despite hitting .240, he works walks and hits for power.

      As for defense, Swisher has had a few more gaffes than I’d like to see, but he has better range and the better arm.

      • YankeeScribe

        Swisher has an OPS below .700 in home games. That stat sticks out like a sore thumb. He’s having a lot of baserunning blunders lately. Plus Nady plays better defense. Platoon the bum. lol

        • tampayankee

          You forgot that Swisher makes at least 2-3 mental mistakes a week.
          Cut Swisher, who would trade for him?, and see if you can get a case a beer for Nady. The bigger problem is Matsui and Damon two DH’s and one can’t hit or run anymore.

          Time to bring up the AAA outfield so we can add speed, power and good fielding at the corner spots.

          • Accent Shallow

            “No, that’s my brother — Crazy Talk!”

          • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

            Lol. He has made a few mental mistakes in the last two weeks, and had one all season until that point. Quite frankly, you have undercut any credibility you may have had with this post.

            Or was it a joke?

          • cult of basebaal

            jesus, i hope this is a joke, because otherwise it’s an epic fail.

            that bad man swiffer is slugging .502 and OPS+’ing 130 through last night and even though he’s been somewhat below average in RF this year (per UZR), he’s been at least average out there for his career.

            He can play all the OF positions (CF if you squint funny) and can back up at 1st, has an above average bat and you think we should cut him???

            /oaktag’d

        • Accent Shallow

          And given how well he’s hitting on the road, do we expect that to continue? Is there really a factor a YSIII that makes it harder for Swisher to be effective there? Sure, it’s possible (he could have trouble with the batter’s eye, for instance), but I doubt it. This doesn’t seem like a statistic that has predictive power, unlike, say, someone’s career platoon splits.

        • V

          Could you please compare his OPS on even days vs. his OPS on odd days?

          Because if the difference is significant, it’s likely a sample size issue.

    • Reggie C.

      I wish Nady hadn’t miss so much of the season simply b/c it would’ve been really fun to see these two try to out-do each other. Swisher’s April showers of homeruns and doubles spoiled Yankee fans including myself. However, 200+ at-bats in Swisher has kept the slugging at .500, and the OBP at .380. Now that Swisher’s batting-average correction has occurred, what’s left is a left-handed hitter with pop who can take advantage of the NYS dynamics. Girardi should bat Swisher 7th imo.

      Nady however deserves a shot at compiling at-bats. Its a walk year for him, so you gotta think there’s some drive in Nady to perform this 2nd half to create some positive buzz around him this upcoming FA.

    • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

      Swisher is far from awful in the field. I would call him average.

    • MattG

      And this is a horribly inaccurate depiction of Swisher’s talents. He is a fine outfielder (that has admittedly botched a couple of balls), and he leads the league in walks, and quite possibly, pitches per at bat. Swisher is a very valuable part of this team.

      • tampayankee

        Do you actually watch the games? Have you seen a good right fielder, lets say like Paul O’neil. Swisher is a bench warming .220 hitter and does not deserve to wear Pinstripes.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          Do you know what on base percentage is?

        • Stryker

          how can you say someone “deserves” to wear a yankees uniform over someone else? swisher is a big, big part of this team and lineup, and whether you like it or not – he’s here to stay.

          nowhere did MattG say he was a “good right fielder” – he said swisher was a “fine outfielder” — which he is. he is a better overall baseball player than xavier nady. not once has nady flashed the power that swisher possesses and they are about equal in the field while swisher has the better range of the two.

          • Stryker

            saying someone deserves something over another is asinine, but if you can do it – so can i.

            you spew bullshit tampayankee, therefore you don’t deserve to post here.

            • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

              OH SNAP.

        • MattG

          Watching the games tells us something. Looking at all the evidence tells us more things.

          As I do watch the games, I could say Derek Jeter and Robinson Cano are the most prolific DP tandem in history–but I would be talking about their offense, not their fielding. I guess I understand how “watching the games” leads to a selective-memory evaluation of those playing the games.

  • YankeeScribe

    Swisher and Nady should platoon RF. Give Nady more starts at home. Currently, Swisher’s OPS in home games is .696. Both players are about equal verses RH pitchers. Swisher is better vs lefties…

    • Zach

      Swisher also started like 2-20 at home this year so his numbers are messed up, give it time to work back out.

      And who’s to say Nady can even throw? I mean is he going to Damon in RF now?

  • Rich James

    Swisher bad points- Horrible RFer
    Horrible base runner

    K’s wayyyyy too much for my liking

    and lets be real..overall..he’s not a very good player

    Swisher good points- has some pop in the bat.

    gets on base alot…but does not have a ton of runs scored
    sees a lot of pitches

    are his good points outweighing his bad points? imo..NO. So i would play X everyday in RF for the rest of the seasos…but i’m not the manager and i’m learning to accept that! LOL

    • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

      He has made a few poor baserunning plays recently, but overall, I dont see him as much better or worse than anyone else. Also, his defense this year hasn’t been great, but he has been above average for his career, so I would say that he is about average defensively, and certainly better than Nady.

      Conversely, he is 6th among RF’ers in OPS and 13th among all outfielders. His hitting so far outweighs the few baserunning mistakes and his relatively poor fielding that in my book, it is not even close. As I have said, I wanted Nady to win the job because I did not want to assume a bounceback for Swish, but am now firmly in the Swisher camp.

      • YankeeScribe

        I like Swish but he’s best used in the platoon role. He’s got one too many flaws in his game to play RF everyday…

        • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

          He has no flaws that outweigh the fact that he is in the top 15 in OPS among outfielders. The job of a corner outfielder is to hit, and he is one of the best out there. I’m sorry, but your argument flies in the face of all of the objective evidence that we have.

          • YankeeScribe

            “The job of a corner outfielder is to hit”

            He doesn’t “hit” the ball often enough to be among the best at “hitting” the ball. Swisher’s lack of speed and poor baserunning takes away from his on-base% stats…

            • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

              Do you know how little “poor baserunning” costs you over a season? Also, he has had a few brainlock plays, but I really dont see him as a poor baserunner. And I find it ridiculous that you can’t grasp the fact that he has been one of the best hitting outfielders in all of baseball. The numbers do not lie. Do his basrunning mistakes have an effect? Certainly. But if you can put his OBP on one side of the scale and baserunning on the other and call them even, you have a lot of learning to do.

              • YankeeScribe

                “he has been one of the best hitting outfielders in all of baseball.”

                Step away from your computer and put the pipe down. As someone mentioned earlier, he’s got more K’s than hits. Situational hitting calls for guys who can make contact. Walks aren’t going to get runners home from 2nd or 3rd base…

                • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                  No, but putting men on base is never a bad thing. The more men on base, the more likely your team is to score. And Swisher may not make much contact, but he also hits for good power. Power/Plate Discipline >> Contact. Who would you rather have: Swisher or Juan Pierre?

                • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

                  Honestly, I have no idea what you are talking about. He reaches base and hits for more power than all but 12 other outfielders in all of baseball. You are blinded by 3 baserunning mistakes and an error to judge the guy poorly, when nothing supports your argument. Speaking your language, Swisher is 4th on the team in RBI despite hitting near the bottom of the order, and sees tons of pitches. You can shout all you want about 3 or 4 plays, but the objective evidence says that you are wrong.

                • YankeeScribe

                  You really asked that question?

                  Pierre
                  .330/.387/.419 plus 16 stolen bases

                  Plus he’s a better outfielder…

                  Pierre will have a greater impact in most games than Swisher

                • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                  Juan Pierre is having one good season. Over the courses of their career, Swisher has been the much better and more productive player. Tell you what, I’ll take a lineup of 9 Swishers and you can take a lineup of 9 Pierres and I’ll beat you 5.6 to 4.8 every game. Swisher, per Baseball-Reference, creates 5.6 runs per game and Pierre creates 4.8. And, this year, Swisher, even with a month long slump, is creating 6.6 runs per game to Pierre’s(and his monster hot streak) 6.1.

                • Mike Pop

                  pwned.

                • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

                  Stop with your silly facts!!! Pierre is scrappy. (Although what is funny is that Swisher has the scrappy factor as well- dives all the time, always has a dirty jersey, sees a ton of pitches, makes pitcher work).

                • YankeeScribe

                  How could someone say that Swish is one of the best hitting outfielders in general when there are 4 or 5 outfielders better than him in the AL East alone????

                  Jones, Bay, Markakis, Zobrist >>>> Swisher

                • Mike Pop

                  i’m not going to deep into this.

                  But you just said Zobrist is better than Swisher after like one month of playing.

                  Come on, man.

                • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

                  I said that he has been better so far than everyone but 12. 3 of those guys happen to be in the AL East. If you did a bit of research, you would see that offensively, Swisher has been much better than Markakis. He has him beat by .65 points of OPS.

                • YankeeScribe

                  This season yes, because Markakis is off to a slow start. For his career Markakis >>>> Swisher…

                • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

                  For his career, Swisher >>>>> Zobrist.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              Please, the guy made two baserunning mistakes in two days in Fenway three weeks ago, and all of a sudden he’s a bad baserunner. Get a clue, he’s been the second best hitter on the team all year.

              • Charlie

                wait, what????? Damon, Tex, Jeter, Cano, even Melky have all been >>>>> Swisher this year. That’s crazy to say that

                • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

                  Swisher is second on the team in OPS.

                • Charlie

                  Tex carried the team to a very successful May. Jeter has been a bit streaky but has gotten on base, stolen & homered much more than expected. Cano has shown on some days he can singlehandedly carry an offense to a win. And Melky has been ridiculously clutch and delivered plenty of walk offs for us. Fuck OPS. They’ve been better than swisher.

                • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

                  Basically, screw the data. You can do the same thing with Swisher- he carried them in April, and has shown he can have great at bats and get on base in big spots.

    • MattG

      He is not a horrible fielder by any means. He has a career UZR/150 of 7.3 in RF (as opposed to Nady’s -2.0).

      What does runs scored have to do with it? He’s had about 75% of his at bats from the 6yh, 7th and 8th spots, so blame Cody Ransom, Jose Molina and Ramiro Pena for that.

      Strikeouts are almost as irrelevant. His slash stats are currently .381/.502. There’s nothing wrong with that, and have you noticed Cano and Jeter not striking out into double plays in the last two one-run losses? Gimme Swisher in those spots, please.

      You are relying way too much on what you can see.

  • Charlie

    I don’t see a need to trade Nady, really. I think he can be useful off the bench and if he can throw he can play right when swish is slumping or left when damon needs a day off. Also, why is the game at 5 pm today?? Seems like a weird start time.

    • Accent Shallow

      Surprisingly, I agree with every sentiment expressed in this comment. I can definitely support trading Nady if the right piece is available, but no reason to foist him off for nothing.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        +1.

      • Accent Shallow

        In this case “right piece” means a guy who instantly becomes the best non-Mariano reliever.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          And you’re not getting that for three months of Xavier Nady with a ticking time bomb in his elbow.

  • Trevor

    What good is having a great OBP when you don’t run the bases well and you don’t have speed to steal?
    Outside of that Nady is the better player. I mean Swisher has more K’s then hits. He is NOT a good player. He’s Jason Giambi late in his career; some pop, good OBP, K’s too much, doesn’t hit for average.
    Best way to do it is platoon them. With Nady getting the bulk of play.

    • Rich james

      Agree 100% with you!

    • http://www.failblog.org FAILBOT

      ERROR! FAIL!

    • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

      Just because you capitalize NOT does not make it true. I hate to tell you this, but Swisher is better defensively than Nady, and Nady has no speed on the bases either. There is no facet of the game, none, where Nady is appreciably better, whereas Swisher reaches base more often than Nady, which is the goal of the game. Quite frankly, the idea that OBP is worthless without speed is so ridiculous that I am wondering if you are just pulling my leg with this comment.

      • YankeeScribe

        Swisher is Adam Dunn without the power… Both Swish and Nady should platoon RF. And I’m sure they will for the remainder of the season

        • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

          Swish is slugging over .500. He has plenty of power. Keep ignoring facts.

          • YankeeScribe

            He’s never had and never will have Adam Dunn power…

            • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

              Didn’t say he did. Just said he has plenty of power, more than most outfielders.

            • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

              Sure, but he’s got similar on base skills and plays better defense.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              How many guys have Adam Dunn power? Like, 5?

              I hate Swish because he doesn’t have Reyes’ baserunning or Jim Rice’s fearedness or Derek Jeter’s rugged good looks.

              • cult of basebaal

                don’t forget the pointing thing he does …

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          Except Swisher is like 48 times better in the field than Adam Dunn.

    • MattG

      What good is having a great OBP when you don’t run the bases well and you don’t have speed to steal?

      I’m sorry, but you really need to read some more enlightened baseball stuff. This is painfully ignorant.

      The alternative to a high OBP is a low OBP. To get a low OBP, you need to make a lot of outs. If you are making outs, you are not scoring runs. Players with high OBPs don’t make outs, and help teams score runs.

      You’re not alone. Dusty Baker has coined the phrase “clogging the bases.” The Marlins are still playing Bonafacio. The Dodgers gave Pierre $45m. We make fun of all these things here, though–giving at bats to fast guys with low OBP, over guys that “clog the bases” with their slow-footed walks, loses runs and games.

    • Rich

      > Best way to do it is platoon them. With Nady getting the bulk of play.<

      You do realize Nady’s a RH batter. How would Nady get the bulk of play in the platoon situation you suggest?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Swisher has a .883 OPS vs RHP and .868 vs LHP, what side are they supposed to platoon him, especially since HE’S A SWITCH HITTER.

      • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

        Home/away :)

    • V

      Walks clog the bases?

      HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

      Man, thank you for singlehandedly proving to me that yes, people can be dumber than I thought.

  • DreDog

    I hate to disagree, but I would totally offer Nady arbitration. I can’t see Scott Boras accepting. The A’s are rumored to be offering Holliday arbitration no matter what (risking a $16 million payday) just because they don’t think Boras would ever accept.

    Even if he accepts, one year of Nady at a discount, probably around $7+ million, is moveable in a trade. If not, having a $7+ million outfielder is not the worst thing that could happen. It would give leverage in talks with Holliday.

    That said, this is contingent on Nady proving he can play everyday for the rest of the year.

    • Charlie

      Agree to a point with that, but Nady could accept and what gives you the idea that the yanks are going after Holliday?? We don’t need another guy in his 30s with a ridiculous contract. NO thank you. I’ll stick with just Nady, Mike Cameron, Marlon Byrd, or even Damon over Holliday.

      • DreDog

        I mention Holliday because he is going to have to accept a lesser contract in the offseason. Unless he can go lights out in the second half, he is getting less than AJ Burnett. He should have accpeted Colorado’s contract extension. If he can be had for $40-50 million range, you have to inquire, right?

        Bay may have the better #’s, but Holliday is a year younger, better baserunner, and plays better defense.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          I mention Holliday because he is going to have to accept a lesser contract in the offseason.

          Heh, I admire your optimism. Boras will have no part of a lesser contract.

          • DreDog

            Tell me who is going to offer than the high of 6 years $96 million Rosenthal reportedly said was offered? I’m willing to bet that will not get that. Are you saying he will get that or better?

            Boras has made mistakes in the past. Not many, but he has.

        • Charlie

          yea, they can inquire but a huge contract would suck. I never mentioned Bay, either, because that would be stupid. The guy will never be as good as he is right now, so we’ll be paying for his upcoming decline

          • DreDog

            I just can’t see Holliday being able to commande a huge contract after last offseason. Boras made a mistake with Varitek. What makes you think he made a mistake for Holliday by not being extended in Colorado. I just can’t see a team offering Holliday $20 million per that Boras wanted a year and a half ago for Holliday.

            • Mike Pop

              While I think Holliday could be a better hitter playin’ 81 games here in NY than he would be in Boston, I don’t know if I’m all the much into the idea of getting him anymore.

              Like said above, Mike Cameron still makes alot of sense. Personally, I could see another Swisher like trade on the horizon. Heh, I love that saying “on the horizon”, but ya, I don’t know if I’m all into the idea of another long term contract. I’m quite fond of Rick Ankiel if can come at 1 or 2 years.

              But on the real, we have no idea how this offseason will shake up. If someone said O-Dog would only get what he got and Dunn would only get 20 mill, I would of called you a funny man.

              • DreDog

                Ankiel is another Boras guy too. I wonder how this offseason shakes out.

    • MattG

      I expect Nady to be offered arbitration.

      1. I don’t think Boras can accept–it is against his brand, and would negatively impact his image.

      2. In the small chance Nady forces Boras to accept, the arb award will be deflated because of the time missed this season, and reasonable. The Yankees do have room for Nady in 2010, and the alternatives: Holiday, Bay–are not attractive.

      Flip side: TB cuts Crawford loose. What is the time table on this? Do the Yanks need to offer Nady before or after TB decides on Crawford?

      • DreDog

        No way the Rays do not extend Crawford. If they don’t want him, they are better off extending and then trading him. He would fetch a decent prospect in return.

        Unless they offer arb, but that makes no sense to not extend then offer arb.

        • Zach

          They have a 10m team option, they’ll pick it up. He’s having a career year and his value is at the highest, so giving him an extension now would be a bad move.

          • DreDog

            I meant extend as in pick up his option. My bad.

            • Zach

              Oh alright, thought you meant an actualy extension.

              I think next July he’ll be traded, depending on how the team is doing obviously. I know he’ll be 29 next year but still think Damon for 1 year stop gap and then get Crawford would make me happy. Although Tampa probably wont trade him in division but oh well.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Agree about offering Nady arbitration. Worst case, he accepts and you have him for another year at $7-9M.

      • Zach

        I think it’ll be interesting to see how Boras works this offseason. We know we always declines arb, but if the economy is so bad and seeing what happened to Hudson, Burrel, Abreu, etc last year 7-9m is probably double what Nady would get on the free market

    • cult of basebaal

      I’m with arbitration.

      The worst case scenario is that the Yankees get a *very* motivated, at least league average player at a *very* reasonable 1 year salary.

      He’s certainly a B level comp, maybe even an A (depending on how he plays when he returns and how Elias factors in his time missed), it’s worth rolling the dice on that.

      (of course, all this is dependent on him playing to at least career avg when he returns)

  • Trevor

    Listen they’re both very flawed players. but Nady is better IMO.

    • MattG

      I get that, but you have demonstrated a misunderstanding of Swisher’s value here. His flaws, like strikeouts, defense and baserunning, are either actually not flaws at all, or not as significant as you say, while his strengths, high OBP, leading the league in walks, pitches per at bat, etc., are more valuable than you think.

    • Charlie

      I agree that Nady is a little better. But how is the x-man very flawed?

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        Bad plate discipline, not as good in right as Swisher, he probably won’t be able to throw upon his return…

        • Charlie

          aight, but he sure won’t make as many idiotic plays as swish

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            Oh please. Swisher’s made mistakes that everyone makes over the course of the season but it just so happens that they’ve come in a bunch. Swisher’s on base skills and defensive abilities outweigh what Nady brings to the table which is a very marginal increase in power.

            • Mike Pop

              They also came in Fenway, which means they count for like triple.

            • Charlie

              “Everyone” does not make some mistakes that swish has made at all. Fine, maybe swish’s OBP + defense outweigh nady’s better hitting ability. But I’m still a bigger Nady fan than Swish fan, that’s probably not gonna change.

              • Mike Pop

                That’s okay that your a bigger fan of the worse player. I mean, I like A.J. more than CC.

                But, to be honest Swisher has more of a “hitting ability” than X too.

                • Mike Pop

                  Shit. you’re*

        • YankeeScribe

          It’s a wash. Swisher is no Gary Sheffield as far as throwing arms go…

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            No, but he has more range than Nady and range >>> arm. Sheffield had a great arm but he was an awful outfielder because he couldn’t move; the same goes for Bobby Abreu.

        • cult of basebaal

          he’s not coming back until he *can* throw and thus play the OF, the yankees have been very clear about that.

      • MattG

        This is really easy to answer:

        Swisher: .357/.456/.813
        Nady: .335/.458/.793

        That .022 edge in OBP == a helluva lot of base running mistakes.

        • Spaceman.Spiff

          But Nady has a much higher batting average. We seem to fall into the perception here at RAB that a walk is as good as a hit but that’s not entirely true. It’s certainly true that a walk is as good as a single at the beginning of an inning but it’s a very different case with runners on base. Very rarely does a walk drive in a run. With a runner on second, 2 outs, Swisher’s value of a walk isn’t as useful as a single would be because most times Swisher is followed by a Pena, Berroa, Cervelli or similarly weak bat. I’m not saying Swisher stinks or that Nady is definitively better but let’s not fall into the trap that a .240 avg and .350 obp has the same value as .280 avg and .350 obp for example (not that those stats are Swisher and Nady’s, just drew them up out of nowhere).

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

            let’s not fall into the trap that a .240 avg and .350 obp has the same value as .280 avg and .350 obp for example (not that those stats are Swisher and Nady’s, just drew them up out of nowhere).

            That’s just not true. Your whole post is not correct.

            Swisher’s career .357 OBP is over .020 points higher than Nady’s, and their career slugging numbers are nearly identical. We’re not talking about two players with similar power or on-base numbers. We’re talking about one who is significantly better than the other in a department that leads to runs and wins. Swisher > Nady

            • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

              Umm, those are his season numbers, not career. I agree with your point, but those numbers widen the disparity.

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

                My quick glance at B-Ref had me reading the wrong line. It’s fixed now.

                • Mike Pop

                  Damn executive powers.

                • cult of basebaal

                  and someone ‘disappeared’ the joba troll’s post … beware of teh executive powers!

            • Charlie

              I’d rather use the stats of their last two seasons, which are probably more reflective of the two player’s recent success. While I am too lazy to look them up, I would bet that Nady’s 2007 & 2008 OBP and SLG are much better than his numbers earlier in his career. Swisher is not significantly better than Nady.

              • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

                You also have to realize that Swish is just entering his prime, while Nady is on the wrong side of 30 and coming off elbow problems.

                • Charlie

                  Actually, Nady is not on any side of 30. I can’t argue with swish entering his prime and the elbow problems, though.

              • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                No, it’s not more indicative. Nady’s is unfairly swayed by a career year and Swisher’s is unfairly swayed by an awful year. I do not think their last two years are good indicators of their performance.

                • Charlie

                  for swisher, i don’t even know if his last year can be considered “awful”. And Nady had a breakout year last year, which hopefully he can transfer into this season once he gets healthy. Injuries have always been Nady’s problem, and you might have seen more seasons like his 2008 if he had always been healthy.

                • Mike Pop

                  How can you not consider Swisher’s year last year “awful”? That is what I want to know.

                • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                  And those injuries still count against Nady, plus he’s two years older and hasn’t developed on-base skills yet, something Swisher’s shown for his whole career (minus his age 24 season when he had a .322 OBP, though his 55 walks that year are more than in either of Nady’s full seasons).

                • Charlie

                  Mike Pop- Key words: FOR SWISHER

                • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                  He set career lows in BA, SLG, OPS, OPS+, TB, HR, RBI and 2B; how is that not an awful year?

            • Charlie

              So now you’re saying his whole post is incorrect? How is it not true that GENERALLY a 280 AVG & 350 OBP >> 240 AVG and 350 OBP????? He said specifically that those are not nady’s and swisher’s actual numbers.

            • Spaceman.Spiff

              Now I didn’t say those were their stats, I was just pointing out how a single is more valuable than a walk in many cases and that just looking at OBP without looking at AVG at all is flawed. (Although it’s much more flawed to look at AVG without looking at OBP, I will concede.)

              I’m kinda curious though, we know we’d rather have .280 avg and .350 obp over .240 avg and .350 obp but would we rather have .280 avg and .340 obp over .240 avg and .350 obp considering every other aspect was held the same? How much more average value does a hit have over a walk in the long term? I’m sure that also depends on where in the lineup the hitter is hitting.

              Doesn’t Swisher’s high OBP and low batting average play better at the top of the lineup? I feel like we’ve seen a lot of cases where Posada, Hideki, or Cano are on base and Swisher either walks or strikes out leaving Pena, Melky, or whoever is at the bottom of our lineup to try to drive the runs in.

              • cult of basebaal

                Swisher either walks or strikes out

                or drives the ball, you forgot that part.

                with runners on, nearly 2/3rds of swisher’s hits are for extra bases.

                that scores runs.

  • MattG

    I was all four exchanging Nady for a super-U or infielder of equal offensive ability, or close enough, in the off-season. I would still advocate a swap for a super-U like DeRosa (esp. with Melky and Gardner both contributing).

    But with Pena asserting himself, I don’t see any need to trade Nady for, even bullpen. If Nady can bring back a salary dump reliever like Valverde, possibly. He isn’t going to get Street or Qualls.

    I guess I am saying I would look around for a reliever I could swap Nady + nothing of consequence for (this != ZMac), and I would inquire about DeRosa, but I would be very happy keeping him.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      I think using DeRosa as a super-U would be a waste. He’s definitely better than that.

    • DreDog

      I kind of agree, but there is no way Cleveland, Houston, Rockies would want one year of a corner outfielder for a player that can snag prospects. They would prefer the salary relief AND prospects. They would prefer Z-Mac + other prospects than Z-Mac and Nady.

      Nady would have to go a team that thinks they are in contention. A team like that would, in most cases, want to keep their veteran players for the playoff push.

    • Stryker

      i agree. it’s funny how all of a sudden people’s opinions change. as the season got off to a start people were clamoring to keep both nady and swisher — why should that have changed? melky and gardner will always be 4th OFers at best, so why is it now that people are willing to dump nady? i don’t believe he has any value at all at this point in time. still a ways away from returning to the team and even farther away from playing the field — what good would he do for another team right now?

  • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

    There’s a simple solution to the Nady-injury question. You trade him for a PTBNL. If he remains healthy, you choose a player from List A, if he gets hurt, you choose a player from List B.

    That can also give Cash some flexibility to address the needs of the team at a future date, instead of now. For instance, if Bruney gets hurt a month from now and needs TJ, you pick a reliever. If someone else gets hurt, you adjust accordingly.

    Nady doesn’t figure to have a role on this team and we don’t need another DH. I deal him, even if it doesn’t help us this year. But I wait till the deadline, just in case someone like Damon or Swisher gets hurt.

    • YankeeScribe

      Nady could start RF in home games. Swisher sucks at Yankee stadium…

      • Accent Shallow

        I addressed this upthread. Do we think that his poor showing at YSIII is likely to continue? Unless there’s something else at work here (he has trouble with the batter’s eye, for instance), it seems that he’ll start hitting well at home, as long as he continues hitting well in general.

        • YankeeScribe

          He’s got great numbers on the road and poor numbers at home. It could be mental or it could be that the stadium’s dimensions don’t jive with him. Whatever it is, he’s a terrible hitter so far at home.

          • Accent Shallow

            And unless we have a reason to believe that that will continue (and as of yet, we don’t), there’s no reason to platoon/bench/DFA him.

            • YankeeScribe

              There’s no reason to platoon/bench a guy who is slumping??? The Swisher man-crushes around here are unbelievable…

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

                He’s hitting .288/.422/.538 in June. Great idea. Let’s bench him.

                • YankeeScribe

                  He’s slumping in home games. OPS below .700

                • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                  Oh and the Yankees are two games in to a 9 game road trip so you’re throwing up a nice red herring right now.

              • Accent Shallow

                Whoosh!

              • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

                In what way is he slumping? People keep throwing actual evidence at you, and you keep ignoring it. Seriously, I think at this point you are just trying to egg everyone on.

                • YankeeScribe

                  You guys are ignoring the fact that he’s slumping at Yankee Stadium…

                  .177 BA and .696 OPS at home.

                • Accent Shallow

                  Because “slumping” usually means “hitting poorly in consecutive games.” If he’s on a hot streak with the Yankees approaching a homestand, there’s no reason to give him a few days off just because he hit poorly at YSIII earlier in the year.

                • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                  A-Rod’s only OPSing .770 in away games. Should he be benched away from Yankee Stadium? Damon’s only OPSing .760 away. Should he be benched on the road, too? Jeter’s .758 away from the stadium. Let’s bench all these dudes away from home.

                • YankeeScribe

                  A-Rod has future HoF stats. Swisher got benched by the White Sox and is at best a platoon RF’er with Nady back on the team.

                • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                  Except that Swisher’s been better over his carer, is having a better season, was a full time player in Oakland, and was benched last year because Ozzie Guillien was playing him in position which he was not suited for, and Ozzie doesn’t like walks and home runs, two things Swisher is good at. It’s also worth nothing that in Swisher’s worst year, last year, he hit only one fewer home run than Swisher in 58 less ABs.

                • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                  that second Swisher in my last sentence should obviously be Nady.

      • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

        If he’s able to throw at all, it will be as a LF. Asking him to make long throws from 1st to 3rd is unreasonable.

        • cult of basebaal

          and your evidence for this is what, exactly?

          saito had the same procedure done on *his* elbow and he’s pitching fer chrissakes.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      But that shorthands the team for the time being.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        Yeah, if I’m Cashman, I want something back for Nady immediately.

        • Accent Shallow

          Agreed. Any trade would attempt to bring back pieces that will help the 2009 team, not prospects.

      • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

        That’s why I wait until July 31st. For the last 2 months of the season, you call call up an A-Jax or someone else, which they likely will anyway a month later. Nady would have too small a role to make much difference one way or the other. He’s simply there for depth.

        • DreDog

          I don’t think AJax is ready, but that might be for another day.

  • Mike Pop

    Is Swisher having a good season in anyone’s eyes?

    I mean, this is where I pretty much expected him to be and I’m glad he’s on the team.

    I don’t get alot of the Swisher hate in the comments.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      +1

      Swisher’s most likely not going to be a .300/.400/.500 guy, but he will have similar peripherals: about a .100 IsoD and around a .200 (or higher) IsoP.

    • cult of basebaal

      the force is obviously strong in the swisher trolls this morning …

  • sabernar

    When was the last time a team traded for a reliever and it worked out well. It seems that whenever someone trades for a reliever wth good numbers, they inevitably regress to the mean and stink up the joint.

    • Mike Pop

      Boston made that great trade for Eric Gagme and they won the world series.

      • DreDog

        IETC

    • cult of basebaal

      well, LaTroy Hawkins seems to have worked out for Houston … though I guess that’s a case of a player regressing to the mean in the other direction …

  • http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/413671602_daded72a81_m.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

    Ok… Everyone choose which player you’d prefer:

    Player A:

    162 game averages: 21 HR, .335 OBP, .458 SLG, .792 OPS, 108 OPS+, 246 TB, 34 BB, 1.8 LF UZR/150, -2.0 RF UZR/150

    Player A’s numbers were mostly compiled in the National League. In 2009, Player A has been on the DL since mid-April with an elbow injury that may, at the very least, limit his throwing ability in the outfield.

    Player B:

    162 game averages: 28 HR, .357 OBP, .456 SLG, .812 OPS, 114 OPS+, 253 TB, 93 BB, 6.3 LF UZR/150, 7.3 RF UZR/150

    Player B’s numbers were all compiled in the American League. In 2009, Player B is healthy and has hit 12 HR with a .381 OBP, .502 SLG, .883 OPS and a 130 OPS+.

    • Mike Pop

      B.

      • DreDog

        What if Player A had a cool first name?
        What about now?

        • Mike Pop

          Like….. Jacoby?

          I’d have to take A if that was the case.

    • cult of basebaal

      ooh, ooh, ooh!

      I know this one!

      I’ll take blandly mediocre FTW!

    • Dusty Baker

      Depends on if player B “clogs the bases”.

    • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

      Player A, of course, because he clearly makes less dumb plays (I just intuited that, I wonder which players these are), which makes up for the decent sized disparity in the statistics.

      • Zach

        its easy to make less dumb plays when your ass isnt even on the field

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Definitely Player A, he’s business-like and doesn’t express any happiness for being fortunate enough to play baseball for a living. That’s the kind of guy I want to root for.

      • Charlie

        that’s rather harsh. you don’t have to be crazy like swisher to feel fortunate to play baseball for a living. why not root for nady, i don’t get that at all.

        • Charlie

          wait, now i realize that you might have said that to defend swisher, not dis nady. i’m not sure though…

          • DreDog

            Awesome!!!

    • YankeeScribe

      With RISP, player B is likely to strike out or walk because he has more strikeouts than hits…

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        Nick Swisher with RISP: .367 OBP, .422 SLG
        Xavier Nady: .341, .409

        And why are we valuing a select what, 100 at-bats per season over the other 550?

        • YankeeScribe

          A walk is as good as a hit except with RISP. When runners are on first and second(and no one on 1st), a single can bring runs home. A strikeout or a walk can’t. That’s a scenario where BA matters more.

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            More people on = more run scoring opportunities.

            • Zach

              walks are selfish, he’s just up there hoping for a walk so the pressures off of him

              • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                No, that’s only A-Rod.

    • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

      Hmmm…tough.

      What are their pitching lines?

  • Lanny

    Why would any team give up anything of value for a player returning from an elbow problem and not really able to throw?

    Be happy with the deep bench. Its a good problem to have.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Amen.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      I….agree…with…Lanny…

      /checks for flying pigs.

    • YankeeScribe

      I agree. As far as the platoon thing goes. Swisher was aquired to play 1st base and hasn’t owned his position in RF. Platoon Swish and Nady until someone takes ownership of that position. Plus it’s Nady’s walk year so he’ll have extra motivation to be productive when he gets back…

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        So an .883 OPS, 130 OPS+, with a .075 advantage over the average RF is not taking “ownership” of the position? Mo almighty what do you expect from the guy?

        • Stryker

          obviously Paul O’Neill reincarnate.

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            Duh.

    • Stryker

      Be happy with the deep bench. Its a good problem to have.

      wow..for once Lanny makes sense!

  • http://vee23 vee

    Nady often hits pitchers other players are overmatched by. His outfield play is is pure fundamentals and a pleasant breath of fresh air. He positions himself well to make accurate throws and always knows where to throw.

    Swisher does have great at bats, but too many result in strikeouts….so he’s really only filling the Giambi void, but with less power. His outfield play is attrocious in terms of fundamentals and I’ve seen enough of his lollipop throws that do nothing but allow every baserunner to advance another base. I can’t imagine him ever covering cf, but I do like him as a rotational sub. Something this ol’ team needs.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      Sure, Nady strikes out less than Swisher but he walks considerably less, has only a .002 point advantage in SLG, and for their careers, Swisher has better defensive numbers in right and left than Xavier Nady.

  • JeffG

    I, as I have all year, like this team without a trade. I think Nady can be just what the doctor ordered when Swish goes through another cold streak like he did in May. Swisher has done a great job this season and I do understand that we was productive by using his good eye even when he wasn’t slugging the ball but playing the hot hand would be a nice option.

    Also, if Melky cools off or a guy takes a blow it would be nice to have that extra bench bat.

    The one thing you would like to have is the extra pen help so Phil can continue his journey as a starter. However, teams that might give up a good reliever aren’t going to do it for an expensive rental. Why would any team that is out of contention want Nady for a couple of months? – Makes no sense – Keep him.

  • Jon

    It would be smart to offer Nady Arbitration. He’s only making 6.55 mil and arbitration would raise to about 8 or 9 mil which is a good deal for a player of his productivity. (In comparison, Pat Burrell makes 10 mil). If he does not accept arbitration (which is likely as his agent is Scott Boras) we’ll get a pick, because he’ll either be a Type A or B free agent.

    • JobaWockeeZ

      Yeah agreed. However I can’t see him being a Type A free agent due to the injury he had. Even if he’s a Type B we’ll get a pick since he probably won’t accept arb as you said.

    • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

      Why would arb go higher?!

      • DreDog

        Arb means a raise 99% of the time. And I ain’t seen that 1% yet.

  • Rich James

    player b doesn’t know how to play the OF and can’t run the bases!

    oh and averages more K’s than hits

  • Brendan Scolari

    I don’t think Angel Berroa should count as depth. But I agree that it makes sense to trade Nady if you can back something decent for him.

  • Joba-to-the-pen

    Isn’t Nady eligible to be a type A free agent this off season.It would be nice to get draft picks out of Damon and Nady in the off season.That would be more of a return then selling Nady who is just coming off a injury.

  • Joba-to-the-pen

    Isn’t Nady eligible to be a type A free agent this off season.It would be nice to get draft picks out of Damon and Nady in the off season.That would be more of a return then selling Nady who is just coming off a injury.

    • thebusiness

      They would be stupid to offer Damon arbitration, he’d take it and they’d owe him at least 13M.

      Nady will be a Type A so there has to be good prospect in the deal.

  • thebusiness

    Nady to the Mets, he can play 1st base and not have to worry about throwing for awhile. If Delgado comes back, he should be outfield ready.

    Bobby Parnell, Daniel Murphy, and another prospect in return.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      You’re joking, right?

  • Greg

    I hear what people are saying about Nady, but if he’s 100 percent healthy, I want to see what he can do for OUR team. Don’t forget he was roughly a .280. 30 100 hitter just a year ago. The problem with our outfield is that we have a roster full of players who would be better off as 4th outfielders and DH’s.. I would listen to offers for Melky. Let’s sell while he has value. The Yankees should have went after Nate McLouth. He really was a perfect addition… Damon is an adventure in left with no arm. Gardner is a great bench/spot player, but that’s about it. Melky is fool’s gold. You think you have an all-star in the making, but he’s really not all that. Swisher is a great player to have on the roster, but not a 150-game guy. Matsui is nothing but a PH at this point… Matsui would be impossible to trade. What contender needs an aging DH? Damon I would certainly listen to offers for, but again, no one is going to want him. I think we’re stuck with having a poor outfield for one more year, but I envision a completely new OF next year. Let Nady, Damon and Matsui walk. Bring up AJax and find a 20-something OF with All-Star potential by traditing prospects.. No way we get Bay. Boston will sign him to 3-year deal under market value and he’ll take it because he knows they can win every year. Players say them want to come to Yankees to win a title, but everyone knows it’s all about the $. Yankees are all about selling a product, not winning games. They want to have both, but it’s not that easy.

  • Peter Lacock

    I was busy and missed the game and no one will read this but I still wanted to put in my two bits. I apologize if this has already been said.
    Ben is spot on with ‘Trading Nady this July, if he comes back and proves himself healthy, makes good sense.’ -and- ‘is he really that integral a piece that they need to hold onto him? I don’t think so.’ -and finally- ‘Nady is set to be a free agent at the end of the season, and if the Yankees don’t trade him now, they won’t get anything from him.’
    Here’s hoping Cash is in this same frame of mind.
    I would say that this same logic applies to several others, as in, all that have no future beyond this season. Molina, Edwar, et al. It would have applied to Veras as well but maybe we’ll get something, anything, for him yet.

  • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

    Mechanics and unorthodox delivery are two totally different things.

  • Accent Shallow

    The answer is e) Xavier Nady, due to the fact that he’s rehabbing from Tommy John.

  • cult of basebaal

    plenty of lonely bridges this morning …

  • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

    Donkey Kong sucks.

  • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

    Trade for Papi (3HR) straight up?