Wow. Legacy, meet taint. Taint, legacy.
Update (12:37pm): Here’s the original NY Times article.
The full NY Times article and my red sox fan friends reaction.
“ughhh. well there’s a pretty good explaination for why his numbers are down.”
you think, captain obvious?
I don’t buy that explanation. Why would Ortiz suddenly stop using this year? Testing has been in effect for a number of years, so if he’s passed all of his tests since 2003, then why stop using now?
I find it just as hard to believe that his decline this year is because he stopped using 5 years ago.
because he decided to advocate for harsher penatlies:
what a hypocrite. or, more aptly, hippo-crite.
nice find. i am enjoying clicking back and forth between two open tabs in my browser right now. the title of those tabs?
“Manny, Papi tested positive for PEDs in 2003/River Ave Blues”
“David Ortiz calls for stiffer steroid penalties” – LA times.
When he came out and said that in ST he was speaking of looking forward. As in, from here on out, if you test positive you get a whole season suspension.
doesn’t matter. He’s still a hypocrite for saying it when he knew full well that he was a user.
Didn’t he say last year that anyone who’s caught using steroids should be banned for life??
Looks like Yanks fans will be taunting Papi and the Sox this August when they return to New York next!
The arod distractions was before the season. This is write in the middle of a playoff run. Should be interesting to see how they react.
I love how you correct were, but not write.
cant really gloat about this but its not like it wasnt expected.
always felt the guys denying the accusations the loudest (Ortiz) were doing so to cover it up.
This is almost as good as trading Igawa, Ransom and Kevin Cash for Halladay and Downs and cash. Almost.
Agreed, I’ve been having an on-going argument with my uncle that if anybody in baseball was using it was David Ortiz
“if anybody in baseball was using”
I can’t help but go back to this and laugh now: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....ortCat=mlb
And this: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3911153
what a load of hypocrisy on david ortiz’ part.
Does anyone else think Chowda Nation is now going to go with the line “Everyone else was doing it, so I dont care.”
I had to take their shit for months about A-Rod juicing, now that their heroes have been exposed, they are going to try to brush it off.
Besides, who really didnt know that fat P.O.S. was taking shots in the ass, both with needles and in Provincetown?
I’m guessing you have lots of bumper stickers on your car…
Nope, only have the NY magnet on my hood. I just love to talk shit.
Thanks for crossing an unnecessary line and cheapening your whole argument.
He obviously meant “Person On Steroids”…
Heh. I was referring to the “taking shots in the ass… in Provincetown” part, though. That’s just bigoted, ignorant and pointless.
Agreed. And it only detracts from the situation at hand, which I find strangley liberating.
Provincetown? What’s going on there?
my name is also pete!
They are. Check ESPN.com comments. This news story isn’t news, because, after all, everyone was doing it. GO SAWX !1!1111!!11!!
Glad to see George Mitchell was doing his due diligence with the clubhouse he had the most access to.
ha, its like when you’re going out to eat with a bunch of friends, but when you count you forget to count yourself.
honestly the only names that would surprise me right now are Jeter and Mo. to me anyone could be on that list.
David Eckstein would surprise me.
that would just be sad
Sad day indeed…..Ortiz won’t take anywhere near as much crap as Manny and Arod though because he’s been so much more likeable. He was just as wrong as they were though. I’m not surprised, but very dissapointed. I was hoping this day would never come. Sounds like Ortiz has been refusing comment too. Not sure if that’s the way to go or not.
Yeah, but with Ortiz there’s more of a question whether he ever would have been a good hitter at all without the steroids, since his career is so funky and he really didn’t hit until something happened after he got to Boston in 2003. I think Ortiz takes a HUGE hit here, I think you’re not seeing a big part of this. Everyone knows Manny and A-Rod (however unlikable A-Rod might be) were special talents without the steroids. But Ortiz? Not so much. His entire career gets called into question now.
I actually agree with you, but we’re not talking about a Hall of Fame career here so the fall from grace isn’t nearly as far. I also think fans will be much more forgiving of him because they love him so much.
We’ll see. I mean, yeah, nobody takes crap like A-Rod takes crap, the personal hatred won’t be like that. But I think the guy will look like a total fraud to a lot of people now. People will still like him because he’s Big Papi and people like him, but his legacy as a ballplayer? Doneskis.
And, honestly, my laughing-reaction to this news aside, I personally don’t give a shit if the guy did steroids. He seems like an awesome guy, I see why Sox fans love him. But it doeschange my opinion of his on-field exploits.
“But it doeschange my opinion of his on-field exploits.”
Mine too man, mine too.
Meh… See the conversation below… It’s not about dancing on Papi’s grave. He’s still a cool guy who did some cool things for you guys.
Look at me, feeling empathy for a Sox fan. We know how it feels, and it sucks, huh.
Yup. I just hope people gain perspective as more of these names come out, because if you rail at the heavens about how evil all the other teams players are for taking steroids, you’re going to be in an uncomfortable position later when you realize the truth.
Your favorite player took steroids. Nobody is exempt from this. Steroids were like water for most of the past two decades. Everybody was on stuff.
“Your favorite player took steroids. Nobody is exempt from this.”
Don Mattingly did not take steroids, and I will punch you in a very uncomfortable spot (Not the back of a Volkswagon) if you say he did.
Don Mattingly probably didn’t take steroids.
Looking back at his injury plagued career, though, he should have. He cheated us Yankee fans out of several good years of baseball in the early 1990′s, and if he had cheated like he was supposed to he probably would have won a ring.
So, yeah, I’m a little pissed at Donnie Baseball for not taking steroids.
BOOOM, THAT JUST HAPPENED. IS YOUR MIND BLOWN?
DBHOF is so coming out of the woodwork for you now.
Yeah, he should have dabbled into the HGH, huh. With some HGH and that little O’Neill leg kick he picked up in ’95, he would have been awesome.
Yeah, I do hope that most of you will remember that this guy didn’t take shots at Arod. I never advocated booing him and chanting at him and I still don’t.
Everybody is jumping to the conclusion that because Ortiz is on the list that he did Steroids (and he most likely did), but what if he was taking some girly drug like Ramirez. Maybe that’s why all his comments mention Steroids specifically and only steroids specifically. Yes, I realize I’m grasping at straws…
You’re not grasping at straws, Whitey. Straws are bigger than that. You’re grasping at sub-atomic particles of elements that could potentially become straw someday.
“but what if he was taking some girly drug like Ramirez.”
That “girly” drug’s purpose was to kickstart his natural testosterone production while coming off a steroid cycle.
Manny was busted for steroids. When you test positive, they look at all your medical records. When they did that, they found the prescription for the “girly drug”. They suspended him for that instead because Manny couldn’t appeal that, whereas he would’ve been able to drag out an appeal on the drug test results for months.
And as Joe said, the “girly drug” was part of his steroid usage.
Damn, I knew I was grasping at straws, or maybe element particles, but did you guys have to prove it so thoroughly
if he was still putting up numbers yes. not hitting .223 though. he’ll never get booed at fenway, but lets see them try to do ‘you did steroids’ chant for arod now
But you have to remember the ignorance of some fans will lead them to chant at Arod anyway because they’ll be expecting Ortiz to get the chants in the Bronx so they’ll think it’s alright. It’s unfortunate for both players.
yeah true. but did sutcliff say they were good fans when they did that to arod? whatever ill just laugh if i hear it.
any word if gammons will be on bbtn? or is he taking a vacation?
He’s on ESPN News right now and his answers are fairly shaky at best although he has mentioned the 70′s Steelers as a comparison that fans may make.
Whitey, I’d like to commend you for coming on here and making clear, positive statements as a Sox fan. The few we get around here are usually awful, but when you do comment, it’s balanced and thoughtful.
Oh, Whitey’s always been awesome. He’s better than tons of Yankee fans on here. Because he makes sense.
No, seriously, I would trade like half of you jerkfaces for Whitey in a heartbeat.
So, what you’re saying, is Mike (Joba), Joe (Hughes), and Ben (AJax) for Whitey (Halladay)?
I believe I’m the bastard son of Kei Igawa and Ian Kennedy.
Let’s not go crazy, here.
Whitey isn’t Roy Halladay… more like John Burkett.
“Whitey isn’t Roy Halladay… more like John Burkett.”
So, what you’re saying is, Whitey had a surprising career year in 2001 at the age of 36? So… Whitey did steroids?!?!
Wow. Whitey, man. You think you know a guy.
That’s one ugly f’ing baby Joe.
Wait, wait, wait….in order for me to be John Burkett, I’d be having that career year right now, since I am 36 for a few more weeks. So let’s see, I have a beautiful new daughter, Jimmy Rice is in the Hall of Fame, I made it through my company’s downsizing and came out of it with a promotion, yeah, I guess this is my career year. Drat, I am John Burkett. Son…of…a…bitch!
This made my day so much better
Seriously, though, what this (once again) highlights more than anything is the ridiculous lack of control the MLBPA and the congressional commission have over the secrecy of the PED list. How difficult can it possibly be to keep these names under lock and key?
very difficult. there are leaks all the time in every thing. leaks in CIA, FBI, Police, grand jury testimony from giambi, etc
The problem is as part of the Bonds investigation (I think), the government tried to get access to it. It dragged on in appeals court for a long time, which meant a lot of people saw it along the way. It’s (probably) not a case of new people getting access to the list.
This is really my point–my comment was really supposed to be sarcastic, though I didn’t do a good job of presenting it that way.
Mitchell, his colleagues in Congress, and MLB were all presumably smart enough to know that there would be NO way whatsoever to keep this list confidential for any period of time. They had to understand that names would leak out through a variety of avenues and that those players would be subject to all of the social and professional penalties to be expected. Yet they went ahead with their exercise (which, let’s be honest, hasn’t done a bit of good for the sport or its fans) anyway.
Sorry, but to me, that’s the definition of irresponsibility. Personally, I’m not an advocate of the secrecy of PED test results; but if you as a political or league official promise you’re going to keep those results confidential, you’d damn well better know what you’re promising before your mouth writes checks your ass can’t cash.
How the hell were they then scott free on the mitchell report?
today is a glorious day for the red sox haters
George Mitchell is on the board of directors of the Sox
oh yeah i forgot about that
That’s easy. Every single user on the Mitchell Report can be tracked back to one of three sources:
- Radomski (McName was via Radomski)
- The Florida supplement place
That’s all they had. If a player didn’t admit it himself, and if he didn’t get his PEDs from one of those three sources, he wasn’t in the report. That’s why it was so useless to name anyone.
exactly. they busted 3 places in 3 different parts of the country. you dont think theres a lab down in texas that supplies players down there? or chicago, or LA, or pick a city.
And in other news..the sky is blue.
I think this is the only way to react. It’s no surprise that Ortiz is on the list. It’s just a shot at Boston fans who were classy enough to chant “you did steroids” at A-Rod.
The worst part of this all, and I mean WORST, is that Yankees fans will taunt Ortiz similarly when they come to town next week, rather than remaining silent. Please, people, prove me wrong.
exactly. it’ll be hard for Yankee fans to gloat about it and seriously mean it. no team is immune to this, especially the Yankees.
What if we just give Ortiz a standing ovation, like the one Rivera received on Opening Day in 2005
I love this idea. It acknowledges it, it will get a lot of coverage and it totally embarrasses Ortiz.
Oh totally. It’s a shot at Boston fans but not even just them… It’s everyone who has been so freaking stupid and hypocritical about this entire thing gets laughed at. What a joke this entire issue has become.
Ortiz? He seems like a real nice guy to me. Honestly, I don’t wish ill upon him, it sucks that he’s going to have to go through this and that his legacy is poop now. I laugh at everyone, all the people who made this issue such a circus and came out so harshly against these guys in the past.
A-Rpd murdered the history of baseball, Jayson Stark? He had PLENTY of company. Including YOU.
i agree. its been more about demonizing the users who have been caught or admitted instead of realizing the big picture of the total number of users in baseball. you cant turn a blind cheek to the larger number and just go after one scapegoat like Jayson Stark did.
Well, you really can’t turn a blind cheek to anyone, can you.
What if Yankees fans chant “You did steroids, too!” It’s not that hypocritical then and it makes Ortiz feel like shit, which is clearly the ultimate objective.
Anyway, sucks to be you, David. I do, however, agree with what HCM’s been saying: Ortiz seems like a nice guy and it’s shitty this had to happen. Oh well, it’s hard to say I’m even the slightest bit surprised.
I say we just bring back the “1918″ chant.
Well the cadence of that chant is all wrong. And it sounds more like a school yard taunt. Better to go with no chant at all, I think that would actually be the most noteworthy event. Papi comes to bat and Yanks fans just treat him like any other schmoe.
If you insist…
i fucking love it. they better play back this tape and ask david to respond
lol, this isn’t surprising at all. I wish though that they’d just release the entire list or burn the list and keep them all secret. I don’t really like this coming up with a new name every few months. It was supposed to be confidential anyway so I don’t know who is releasing these names.
Further proof everyone in baseball was using steroids. No reason to gloat, no reason to be sad. As a fan, you should probably have just accepted it by now.
Personally, I still don’t care. The hypocrisy from writers and players and fans alike is far more irritating than the long history of performing enhancing drugs in baseball.
The hypocrisy from writers and players and fans alike is far more irritating than the long history of performing enhancing drugs in baseball.
But the Red Sox are “pure” and respect the integrity of baseball. Im really shocked. SHOCKED.
that only applies to white redsox players, duh. ortiz and manny may have been sox but they were never true sox because they were lazy dominicans
Am I racist for laughing at this? Because it IS funny.
its about time their names came out, it seemed like the only names that would be releases were yankees and the mitchell report was all yankees. I guess ortiz might want to take back those comments he made when he said those who tested positive should be banned from the game.so basically the the 2004 and 2007 champs might have been “artifically enhanced” so maybe the curse wasnt reversed, it was just juiced =)
I can’t wait for next clever pic from No Mass lol.
I’m not sure you understand the meaning of the word “touche.”
Haha, nice. Mandy Patinkin is the man.
I wonder if I can get my 1918 shirt back???
Ohhh, George Mitchell, Yoots gots sum X-plane-ning to do!!
i love the yankees play at 8, i can watch the whole NESN pre game show and comcast new england sports tonight shows
The cheaters…I mean, the Sox are playing at 1:30.
lol. Shocker. Next we’re going to find out Pudge was teh juicer!
This news would make a clever t-shirt
This just made my day. Anyone think that it’s a coincidence that all of the big 4 that were named were Dominican?
mark mcgwire and barry bonds were the first biggest before them. and they are oh um american
Roger Clemens and Kirk Caminiti also say hello.
oops. yeah, wasn’t thinking
Ken Caminiti. My bad.
You were thinking of Mike Seaver….Kirk Cameron….it happens
harDen is the best pitcher in baseball this year!
Maybe you had Kirk Cameron on the mind.
As usual. He’s so dreamy, and he’s a good Christian role model too.
Thought it was Kirk. Am I missing something here?
I mean Ken. Damnit!
Yes. Good grief, man.
HAHAHAHAHA.. Remember when Ortiz mad all those negative statements about steroids…
Good point, David Justice probably did steroids too.
This was a very nice surprise to see. Now I have something to argue with when all my “sawx” fans start blabbing about A-roid. hahah I love it!
The whole list will get leaked sooner or later. The only thing I ask is that Jeter and Mo not be on it.
Seriously, dude, stop holding out hope. They probably did too.
No, just probability.
Thats just not accurate.
It is not…in fact any sort of statistical analysis would point to them not being on it…possible of course….far from probable
Heresy! Mo is above such trifling things as steroids!
Mo: I have walked on the surface of the Sun… witnessed events so tiny and so fast, that they can hardly be said to have occurred at all. But you, tommiesmithjohncarlos, you’re just a man. The world’s smartest man poses no more threat to me than does its smartest termite.
This came from the NY Times. Don’t they own part of the Red Sox. ROFLMAO!
I believe they’re trying to sell off their shares of the Sox.
yes, i believe they made the sale it just hasnt gone through yet
Shouldn’t that make you feel good about their journalistic integrity that they ran with a story that could damage the reputation and bottom line of one of their subsidiaries?
And funny thing is, all the major news outlets are a bit slow on reporting this. It was front page news in 5 seconds when it was A-Rod
Does this mean we’re looking at a Sucka Got No Juice Remix?
I’ll admit, I’m a little disappointed. While I’ve hated Ortiz for being a Yankee killer, I’ve always respected him as a player. He’s always played with class and has never opened his mouth like the rest of those Idiots. I don’t think steroids are the reason he’s been a great hitter, same thing with A-Rod, and I’m not about to attack Sox fans for this because I believe about 85% of players who played MLB before ’03 juiced at least once.
Whatever, the steroids story is so old already, moving on…
pls stop raining on our parade.
Opened his mouth about what. Punishing the steroids users or bitching about Joba.
And to think Felix Heredia struck out David Ortiz with the bases loaded back in the day.
Big Papi needs some new nicknames besides Big Sloppy
Swift Boat Veterans for Baseball Truth
The Revere ‘Roider
The Splendid ‘Roider
You got my vote
…I’m still pissed that anonymous names are getting leaked, though. Makes me feel really secure about my civil liberties.
So long as you’re not a celebrity, or otherwise a notable public figure, I think you’re okay.
The whole list should be released at this point. Sort of like ripping a band-aid off. I wonder about the “lawyers with knowledge of the results”. I bet the NY Bar goes after those guys to find out, given the serious ACP breach.
it’s not anonymous if there are names attached to the samples. It’s ridiculous they can say it was anonymous and know who gave a sample.
Yeah, the big massive fuck-up in all this was the Players Union, who A) agreed to an “anonymous” survey where the names are attached to the samples and B) didn’t ensure immediately that the list was destroyed.
see that’s the point. B never should have been an issue since there never should have been a list to begin with, just numbers of players that tested positive. The Union screwed this up big time, you are absolutely correct on that.
This is not a suprise. Its about time this came out. Papi = fat and cheater. Ive been saying this for years but everyone always told me no because he was fat. This makes me really happy.
Does anyone else have certain words underlined in yellow and links to a product on amazon by the same name?
Guess its just firefox
…Im using Firefox as well, nothing on my end, you might want to check for ad/malware.
Isn’t it ironic that the NYT owns part of the Sox (for now) and scooped this story?
Unlike Mitchell, they are still able to do their job without letting the conflict of interest get in the way.
What a misunderstood concept, huh. You should keep that Princess Bride clip queued up.
It’s like rain on your wedding day
These guys are making Dominican players look bad
No, they’re not.
Only the lazy ones!
This is not the main story on the front page of ESPN yet. Its on the front page of CNNSI. They have a link to it over in the side bar.
Maybe there is something to this NESPN thing.
Tonight’s ESPN headline:
More names leaked from ’03 steroid list | Who’s next? Maybe Jeter?
Oh sweet Jesus this makes my day.
This doesn’t make me ecstatic because it somehow “invalidates” the Sox championships. It makes me ecstatic because, now, self-righteous and holier-than-thou Sawx fans must STFU.
But of course, it won’t be a big deal via ESPN. If it was another Yankee, absolutely.
The anchors of the 04 and 07 Sox championship teams are both cheaters!!!
Curt Schilling and Josh Beckett? Damn, not them too
Look at ortiz’s HR #’s in 03. 4 hrs in the first 3 months then 27 from July on. It was right there the whole time.
He was platooning with Giambi until after the AS break. Nice try though.
HAHAHAHA THE SAWX’S CHAMPIONSHIP IS TAINTED. F*CK THEM!
No, it’s not.
Perfect handle for you. It’s like you used one, and then, WHOOSH, a bunch of crap came out.
WOW, that was awesome!!! I’m still fucking laughing….
no steroids chants
just a nice big “1918″
ive gotta go to those GNC stores in the DR more often – they seem to have a whole different product sourcing system than the GNC’s in my local mall…:)
Music to my ears
Pedro Gammons would still vote for him as the MVP! LOL
Time for a new nickname perhaps? Big Jeringuilla? (Big syringe)
hahaha i just went on redsox.com to rub it in sox fans faces and they all sound so dissapointed. there like, “lets not argue about peds instead lets talk about how clay bucholz is the greatest pitcher ever already”
Do you think he will have to go through the same ringer A-Rod did?
It’s Bud Selig’s 75th birthday today. That cake must taste like shit now!
Bud Selig is 75?!
He forgot the 1 in front.
Peter Gammons….suicide watch.
only one thing could make this better–schilling being outed.
okay. If you were in the Jayson Stark headline brain storming session, which would you choose?
- Manny and Papi use the history books as toilet paper
- It’s the end of organized baseball as we know it
- Manny and Papi tragically caught up in Alex Rodriguez Steroid Scandal
Done and done.
That’s a great title, TJSC. Love it!
Though, you know, it could actually be a Mike Lupica title as well. Somehow it’ll be A-Rod’s fault that this has come to light.
Who cares? I’m glad the info came out, because I didn’t think it was fair for ARod to be sort of singled out in the leak department. And to expose Ortiz’s hypocrisy.
But the stuff was everywhere, and I honestly don’t blame any of them for using the drugs. Athletes have always done – and will continue to do – whatever they can legally as well as stretching legal limits, to get an edge.
Maybe we need some asterisks on Willie Mays’s records seeing as he used uppers. And Babe Ruth’s, because he used a corked bat once, etc.
ESPNews just talking about how much Ortiz is “revered” in Boston. So absurd.
And how his “leadership” (cough steroid use cough) helped the Red Sox win two World Series.
It’s not absurd in the fact that he is revered up here. For a lot of fans, he’s what is/was right about the Sox and why Manny was such a loser.
So KLaw’s chat has “Welcome to SportsNation! On Thursday, MLB Insider Keith Law will be here to take your questions on anything baseball related.”
Then he gets…
Matt (Boston, MA)
I know you won’t be getting any questions about it, but can we please talk about Manny and Ortiz taking steroids for the entire chat?
Keith Law (1:03 PM)
Of co … wait a minute, $5. And no more Ortiz questions.
So doesn’t he not want to talk about it since its the Sox or he’s over the whole PED thing to begin with?
Did enjoy this though:
So when Curt Schilling swears he never saw steroids in the locker room, despite being on the 1993 Phillies, 2001 Dbacks and 2004 Red Sox, what should we say to him??
Keith Law (1:17 PM)
To get his eyes checked?
Uuuuuuhhhhhhhh. Annoying. So bored with this. Dont care if Jeter and Mo take horse steroids with breakfast at this point.
Agree. Well….don’t care if they took horse steroids for breakfast or mainlined them for that matter.
It’s fully illegal now, specified, spelled out, so the jig is up. No more. We don’t need kids around the world juicing hoping to get to MLB. Yeah, they’ll do it anyway, maybe, but at least we don’t need MLB players setting the example any more.
They really need to release that list. Why would only Manny & Papi’s name come out, are those the only names the lawyers knew, no.
Here are my top 5 i hope are not on the O3 list;: Jeter, Rivera, Frank Thomas, Griffey, Piazza, Randy Johnson.
Top 5 I hope are on the list are:; Maddux, Moyer, Louis Gonzalez, John Smoltz, Jimmy Rollins, this will maybe shake up peoples perception of what a steriod user looks like and how he or she performs, i think alot of us think that only guys that hit 57 home runs use PED’S and win the dimondbacks world series but it could also be soft tossers like moyer
Mad Dog is the fuckin man.
Why randy johnson and mike piazza?
But yeah that was 6.
I literally love that guy, piazza and the unit is the man, that would crush me,
Piazza is one of the “everyone already knows” guys. There have been many stories about him being an obvious roider.
I don’t see how anyone could be terribly shocked to see Griffey or Thomas on the list.
Just look at the era, the homeruns that were hit, and the group of guys they would be with in terms of numbers…Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Canseco…and you know what? Even if they aren’t ever brought out, suspicion will be there because of the rest of the names. Damned either way…Griffey’s injuries alone are enough to convince me at this point.
It’s sad, really. Even still, I don’t care so much anymore. I’m tired of it. It’s what it was.
Hey, buddy, how ya been? Long time, no see.
OH SHIT YOU CORRECTED HIM NOW YOU’RE GONNA GET IT
Will anyone be surprised to find out that Pujols is on the list too?
Steroids have no effect on machines.
instead of 1918 chants or you did steroids why not just a hypicrite chant.
cause yeah he did steroids everyone did, the issue here is the fact that he failed (and knew it) and came out with his full season suspension comments. way to go ass
Dan Shaughnessy on Colin Cowherd right now, btw.
Love the ad right under the post for Red Sox hats and t-shirts.
What happens to all the fans that proclaimed Theo as a GOD and use picking Ortiz up off the scrap heap as an example?
Yeah didn’t they also sign Jeremy Giambi that year as well? In fact, if I remember correctly their original intention was to have him split time with Ortiz at DH and use him occasionally at 1B and in the outfield.
I know Theo’s secret. The players become good because he gives them steroids. It is the only explanation.
E tu Papi?
Innocent until proven guilty. Pujols’ career has been at the same high level for the duration – no Bonds or Ortiz bumps in production.
He deserves the MVP awards that Bonds stole from him and the 2004 WS trophy the Sox won.
Going back and trying to reallocate records, awards, or championships from years ago is both wrong and unworkable.
I remember you saying something about having a vote for awards or something. How?
If I said something like that, it was tongue in cheek.
I have no vote for anything. Not a baseball insider in any way.
Watching Sports Center, and I can’t believe my eyes. Peter Gammons is undeniably the most bias sports reporter of ALL TIME.
WOW, I feel like throwing a shoe at him through the T.V.
Same question I always ask of people who hate Francessa: why do you even bother listening/reading/watching Gammons at this point?
I dont think thats fair. If you have another choice ok, but if you dont get mlbnetwork what other sport news show do you get besides espn?
i used to listen to francesa a lot, but mostly for the heyman offseason updates, torre/girardi interviews, or if something big happened. i get espn radio but cant stand colin cowherd
Oh, I dont mean it as an attack, I just wonder, when it comes to people that you already know are idiots/biased etc, do you expect anything different when you listen to them? If Gammons came on, in ANY story having to do with the Yankees/Sox, I’d turn the sound down. But even if I listened to it, I wouldnt get aggravated, or even slightly annoyed, because my expectations couldnt be any lower with him.
I agree with that when listening to certain guys you KNOW there’s going to be bias about whatever issue, and falling into the trap of maybe they wont will just get you more pissed.
But at the same time when you watch BBTN and you have 4-5 guys who just sometimes just throw integrity out the window it does piss you off, regardless if you know if its coming or not.
whatd he say
SOX GAME ON MLB NETWORK!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice call! Thanks.
Gammons on espn news talking about Ortiz.
Does this officially make him Mo Vaughn?
Jason Giambi. It makes him Jason Giambi.
I award +1
Gammons sounded like their lawyer in that interview. I really can not stand that guy.
I think he was crying on the inside.
Yeah, I loved the part when Gammons talked about Ortiz, and Mrs. Ortiz, doing all their charitable work in the Boston community. Very relevant.
Saved this for this special moment…LOL…. LMOA…
May 16th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
“We can watch A.J. Burnett or Joba Chamberlain strike out Ortiz now, but that’s hardly an accomplishment today.”
Maybe it’s making up for all times they would of struck him out if he were clean in the past.
Benjamin Kabak says:
May 16th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
This makes you just as bad as Selena Roberts. You have zero evidence that Ortiz juiced. He developed as a player after changing his batting stance and leaving Twins at a time when a rigorous testing program was in place.
I prefer innocent until proven — and not just anonymously mentioned — guilty. Don’t be disgusting about it.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Thank you that makes me right in line with most of the site.
If I hit on 17 in Blackjack and draw a 4, I’m still wrong.
But not in line with Ben, who was right, while you were wrong, in the very situation you yourself cited.
At the time he was right. But now, if you post that, you wouldn’t see that same response from Ben.
Yeah, Ben was very right, you were very wrong. You really don’t help your cause by re-posting that comment.
It help my cause because said “Maybe it’s making” key word there is MAYBE. Ben took the stand that he develop into a great player i thought he used a little help. The only issue i took with Ben was placing me in the same company as Roberts i thought that was a little unfair.
Puh-leeze. That’s pretty flimsy. You brought this conversation up because you thought you were right and Ben was wrong, you were trying to do a “gotcha.” But you were wrong, and now you’re really stretching to try to say you were right. At the time you had that conversation, there was no evidence Papi had cheated, so it was reasonable to think he’d improved by some other means. You’re still wrong, Ben is still right.
If you believed at the time that it was ‘reasonable to think he’d improved by some other means’ then thats your opinion your welcome to it. At time I believed it was more than development and as It turns out it was more.
You’re right about one thing, at the time that conversation occurred, you were speaking based only on opinion. Ben was speaking based on fact, as, as far as anyone knew, Ortiz had been tested numerous times and had never failed a PED test.
Dude, of course we all think everyone was using PEDs, at this point. But you were speaking based on nothing but opinion, Ben was speaking based on what was then known as fact. So, just because you happened to be later proved right, doesn’t mean your statement at the time you made it was right.
And, frankly, you just look like an asshole when you bring up an old conversation like that just to be like “look at me, I’m so special and I want to take a shot at Ben, who’s not even here to answer my charges.” People don’t take too kindly to stuff like that.
Whatever, let’s put this one to bed.
“And, frankly, you just look like an asshole when you bring up an old conversation like that just to be like “look at me, I’m so special and I want to take a shot at Ben, who’s not even here to answer my charges.” People don’t take too kindly to stuff like that.”
Wow you mean to tell me you never pointed out about being right here. That’s real good again your welcome to your opinion. And I’m sorry I didn’t schedule this argument for Ben to be here I don’t have any problems discussing it with him.
We can agree one thing this one does need to be put to bed.
“You have zero evidence that Ortiz juiced”
I have some now thank you NY Times.
It’s so easy all you have to do is open your eyes the juicers are right in front of you.
But at the time you had none. You had suspicions, but no evidence. Now you have evidence, as do we all. Ben’s point still stands strong.
I did say “MAYBE it’s making up” , but before the next key could touched I was in the same company as Selena Roberts.
Because you were in the same company as Selena Roberts.
Doesn’t matter that you were correct ex-post facto, because you had no evidence when you made the allegation.
Ben wasn’t comparing you to Selena Roberts because he thought Ortiz was clean and that you were wrong about him, he was complaining because he felt it was inappropriate for you to claim Ortiz was juicing absent any sort of actual proof and that you were just smearing his name.
Again all I was doing was opening the side to the possibility that Ortiz was dirty. Like you pointed out I had no actual proof . I just looked at his numbers and thought it was more then development. I actually like Ortiz even if he is a Red Sox that doesn’t change the fact that he is a cheat and killed my team while he was cheating.
Dont worry mustang. Most with common sense agreed with u that day.
It’s unfortunate that Bo and Mustang are the only people around here with common sense. I don’t know how you guys can stand to have conversations with the hoi polloi here, it must be so hard for you. There must be someplace with other people with common sense who you can discuss baseball with.
Don’t make this into a personal issue keep it to baseball. I have NEVER try to placed myself above anyone here and I treat everyone the same way they treat me. I try to be respectful to everyone here.
I didn’t make it personal, I responded to Bo’s comment.
Oh really Thats not how it reads to me. You made it out to be like some how i feel like I’m better then some of the people here which is a amazing point since you don’t know me.
I like RAB thats why I’m here so often I think these guys do great work. But i do question them sometimes I don’t like following in clone like fashion.
Bo brought your name into it, and I followed up on his comment in response to his comment. You didn’t say what Bo said, so I was off-base in including you in my response. My bad.
Perhaps, as some have argued, it doesn’t matter anymore, practically everyone was on the juice, no name would surprise anymore (not quite THAT cynical yet). And of course, Yankees have had their share of roid users. But I’m going to enjoy a few days of schadenfreude, I’m going to absolutely TORTURE the asshole Sox fans I work with…does that make me a bad person?
I hope they don’t release the entire list. If they do, anyone not on the list will be presumed innocent.
This would never happen, but I wish all MLB players would come out and say they did PEDs (if you include coffee it wouldn’t even be lying). That could end it.
Sorry, except for any Mormon players, since they’re the only ones that go to heaven.
“If they do, anyone not on the list will be presumed innocent. ” That couldnt possibly be worse than what we have now, where alot of fans are so cynical that EVERYONE is either presumed guilty, or wouldnt be a surprise if they were exposed. Thats NOT a good thing imho.
I liked Joe Sheehan’s response to all of this:
“In other news, somewhere a 6’2, 320-pound man who plays a popular sport professionally for a living ran very, very quickly on a hot summer day. Nobody cared.”
For anyone with MLBN or NESN, Ortiz is hitting 2nd for Boston in the next half inning. Crowd reaction should be interesting
Maybe they don’t know yet! So……but we’ll see!
Oh good point, I didn’t consider that
This is 2009, not 1909. Everyone knew and he got a lukewarm round of applause. Nothing special.
Do u expect them to boo him??
He single handedly won them a title!
Way to cover Ortiz, redsox.com. They don’t even add it to the frontpage slideshow.
I’m waiting patiently for the next edition of 38 Pitches…
I blame A-Rod for Papi juicing.
Also, I blame A-Rod for putting in Bruney last night, not getting Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay (yet) and I think Tex and Melky’s Hr’s last night would have travelled even farther last night if it wasn’t for Mr. Rodriguez.
The Players Union continues to fail. Epically. Miserably.
Get the crackin’ on that press conference, Ortiz.
What about the failure of the Commissioner, ALL the owners, the fans etc, etc, etc. Looking the other way, quite possibly encouraging the players to take PEDs.
Comments from the Boston Herald:
* ezmover2020 — I hate the way they selectivly release the names instead of just publishing the entire list. Just doesn’t seem fare to me.
* John_Dennis_Call –NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
* KP – oh please.. from a NY paper ? why would I suspect anything from the Times? I’ll wait for the real report thanks
* gormenghast – If this is true, I’m officially done rooting for this team.
* Sorry, but the post that was in this spot has been removed as it did not follow our guidelines. #764339 – Jul 30, 2009 1:15 PM EDT
I don’t think KP is too familiar with his team, nor with the notion that, just because a paper has “New York” in its title, it’s not necessarily “local.”
Who didn’t think Papi was on juice? When you had scrubs and minor leaguers on it you just happen to think that stars aren’t doing it? Which has been proven by every star and big time player being linked to it. His taking it paid off big time. he got a huge contract out of it and his family is taking care of for generations.
Bonds and griffey are close friends. I’m pretty sure griffey took some of that stuff.
That statement is exactly why the names should probably just come out, despite the promise of anonymity. Because a guy knows a guy who did steroids that likely makes him guilty? Come on, that’s just patently unfair.
It is unfair, completely. The fact remains that those conclusions will be made by many, many people. No one is safe from the suspicion now and that’s kind of sad.
Still, I’d just say I wouldn’t be shocked by it being true, because the injury record kind of sucks.
ortiz’s career is over.
it was already over before this was leaked
Yup, just like A-Rod’s and Tejada’s and all those other guys who are still playing in MLB after failing a test for PEDs. Oh, wait…
But AROD and Tejada are good, Ortiz SUCKS.
You seriously comparing AROD and Tejada to Ortiz? Good one. Even Giambiroid hit .240 with nice pop last year. What’s Ortiz hitting this year ? Like .210, on pace for 20 homeruns. Yeah, great upside there.
Ortiz was a nobody, until he was sent to Boston and then he decided “hey let me use PEDs”. Without the PEDs, he’s a nobody.
Remember back in February when Ortiz said anyone who tests positive for steroids should get a one year ban, I wonder what he has to say now.
You know what I remember about that statement? How careful he was to add that anyone who tests positive “from now on” should be banned for a year.
Covering his ass a bit? He had to know this day would come once the names started leaking.
Ortiz doubled? Still on the juice, obviously. Will these SOB’s ever learn?
HAHA ORTIZ SUCKS
standing o from the fenway faithful im sure
That’s the article where he argues the one year ban.
All if not most of Boston is currently in denial mode.
Ortiz is a dumbarse, does anyone remember his “I used to get drinks from Dominican Republic, that might have PEDs in em” line he used when asked if he have used PEDs in the past?
I remember that. I also remember how it was swept completely under the carpet by the Boston-humping news media.
I would not be surprised if Bruney was a roid user on that list. The dude is such a bum. Can’t believe he had the balls to talk shit about K-Rod. Hopefully Bruney is off this team sooner rather than later.
Yup. It was dumb last night, and it’s still dumb.
Releasing Bruney serves what purpose, exactly? You want Albaledejo or Edwar Ramirez back?
Yeah, how dare Bruney say what we all think about K-Rod anyway.
And I can’t think of too many players who have shown more dedication to get on this roster than Bruney. He’s worked his butt off. I personally am rooting for him.
Bernazard thought the same things about K-Rod as well.
Where’s the outrage? Where are all the questions? Where are the Dominican cousins/suppliers? I tune in to ESPN Radio and their talking NCAA Football!!
I agree with you 100 percent.
Manny AND Ortiz!?!?
But where’s the book? Where’s the news conference where they’re front and center? Where is the psychoanalysis of their childhood. Where’s the Peter Gammons special? And most importantly…where’s the part where they ADMIT IT.
Exactly! + eleventy bajillion
Let’s see, ARod admits to using steriods while part of the Rangers and the media is all over it because he currently is a Yankee.
Ortiz and Manny helped them win not 1 but 2 rings and not a damn things is said. Fucking biased bullshit from ESoxPNation
Curt Schilling is undoubtedly shaking in his mercurochromed boots as we speak. And that will be the final blow to Gammons. He’ll retire to his Rhode Island summer house and stay there.
Also, I don’t see Terry Francona writing a “Red Sox Years” book anytime soon.
I think the book comment was about Selena Roberts, not Torre
This really isn’t too surprising to be honest. Quote from one of my buddies who is a Red Sox fanatic: “Who cares, it’s clearly a smear campain!”
That was just icing on the cake after he made a huge deal about the whole A-Rod thing previously. Hypocrite just doesn’t even do him justice.
BIG PUMPY JUST HIT A 3 RUN HOME RUN AT FENWAY
Curtain call for Ortiz. On the day he’s outed as a PED user.
Of course Ortiz hits a home run and gets a curtain call.
Damn, Papi with a go-ahead 3-run shot. Cmon A’s!
Would the fans in Fenway know about this news breaking today? Would Ortiz? Interesting thoughts.
Ortiz decline to comment saying that he doesn’t want to talk about it anymore.
I’m sure every Sox fan on earth refuses to believe that their hero would do such a thing.
Oh, but I mean would he know that it hit nyt.com and ESPN and all that today. Didn’t it go up at ~12:30pm? I doubt the crowd has heard anything… it’s not like they put it up on the scoreboard. Ortiz obviously knows he flunked the 2003 test and was asked a question by a reporter, but would he know that NYT broke it this afternoon?
lies from NY media
Wow, now I’m sort of pissed off.
Today of all days he goes yard. Someone test him
David Ortiz only did steroids to bring smiles to childrens faces,
while A-rod murdered those children with his dirty needles.
According to Canseco (the most reliable man of this era), there is a HoF-er who used steroids. Who could it be?
Reggie Jackson. Rickey Henderson. They were all cheaters. This being reported just today.
For Diamond Cutters, I’m Peter Gammons.
DiMaggio and Mantle snorted horse semen off Marilyn Monroe’s ass.
they gave ortiz a curtail call after his HR today
jim rice first comments on manny/ortiz in the post game show:
my problem is with the lawyers throwing 2 people under the bus instead of all 100+
then francona bitches about people’s integrity leaking information. bet he didnt say that when ARod was leaked
I want to propose “Big Boli”
“We forgive and we move on.”
- Peter Gammons
And Nomar doesnt believe the list. ‘what is that list? where is it? how can you believe the list? it’s a joke right now’
Gee, I wonder if Nomar is on this list.
he’s a joke. saying how guys didnt take the test to cause a positive just so there would be testing in the future. uh uh the white sox, yeah i think thats what team it was so it could be 4-5 guys there.
he basically denied the validity of the test and said the bigger issue is the leaks, whos going to testify in a murder case if they’re going to leak your name?
This Peter Gammons interview is making me sick.
nomar’s interview is worse
Ortiz’s written comment:
“1. i contact the mlbpa
2. i was informed its true
3. i dont know what i was tested positive for, i will find out
4. you know me, i wont hide and i will no make excuses”
Looks like Yanks fans will be taunting Papi and the Sox this August when they return to New York next.
yep, Randy. And its been a long time coming considering how the
PED boys have tormented & defeated us by illegal means. Also,
no team has been abused more than us Bomber fans from the
biased steroid witch hunt. It feels great to be vindicated from
all the moral guilt by the haters at NESPN & bastards like
Lupica, Simmons & the BBTN crew. Today, the Yankee Universe are
the luckiest folks on the face of the earth. Good times are
rolling in River Avenue Crew & I do believe they will continue
all the way into November. Why not have hope when the greatest
Yankee Killer of an entire generation, Ortizroid, is vanquished
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