<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Open Thread: Damn, is tomorrow Monday already? edition</title>
	<atom:link href="http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/open-thread-damn-is-tomorrow-monday-already-edition-14128/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/open-thread-damn-is-tomorrow-monday-already-edition-14128/</link>
	<description>A New York Yankees Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 May 2012 11:43:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator>
<xhtml:meta xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" name="robots" content="noindex" />
	<item>
		<title>By: The Fallen Phoenix</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/open-thread-damn-is-tomorrow-monday-already-edition-14128/#comment-466940</link>
		<dc:creator>The Fallen Phoenix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14128#comment-466940</guid>
		<description>+1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>+1.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: donttradecano</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/open-thread-damn-is-tomorrow-monday-already-edition-14128/#comment-466930</link>
		<dc:creator>donttradecano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14128#comment-466930</guid>
		<description>Really Oswalt? You mean the guy who complains about steroid users costing him wins, when 2 of them got him to the WS?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really Oswalt? You mean the guy who complains about steroid users costing him wins, when 2 of them got him to the WS?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: RobTen</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/open-thread-damn-is-tomorrow-monday-already-edition-14128/#comment-466925</link>
		<dc:creator>RobTen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14128#comment-466925</guid>
		<description>While it might be the case that this is part of a &quot;plan&quot; that the front office does not wish to share with the public, on the surface the decision to move Hughes to the bullpen seems to be a really short-sighted one by the Yankees:

Wang gets hurt, they call Hughes up to start in his place. With each start, his outings get stronger. 

Wang returns (too soon, because of the apparent fear that Joba was injured by a line drive) and rather than send Hughes down to AAA to continue gaining innings as a starter, they move him to the bullpen, even as there being numerous bullpen arms waiting in AAA (Edwar, Albaladejo, Melancon). While none of these pitchers is better than Hughes, it is also the case that Hughes-the-starter is worth more to the team than Hughes-the-reliever. And, while it is not difficult to agree that the bullpen is better because Hughes is in it, it is because, to paraphrase TSJC, he&#039;s good at baseball. It is also the case that given contemporary bullpen usage—-in which multiple relievers are used each game in &quot;match-up&quot; situations—-which contributes to the volatile nature of bullpens today, that the bad bullpen in May was a statistical outlier and would not be as bad moving forward. (Unless one thinks that Hughes&#039; mere presence in the bullpen has also contributed to the performances of Coke, Robertson, and Aceves.) 

Now, because Hughes is in the bullpen, his arm loses stamina and he is no longer able to go deep into games. This, despite the fact that no team is likely to get through a season with just five starters. 

Also, Joba is on an innings limit and, if I am not mistaken, will most likely hit it sometime in August or early September, which means that at the very least, and in the unlikely event that all of your starters remain healthy, you will still need a starter in a month or so. Unless the Yankees are way ahead at that point, it will be important to plug in a good starter, and not just someone who will &quot;eat innings.&quot;  

What happens? 

Wang gets injured and, because Hughes is not available to start, they are most likely going to start Sergio Mitre, a below average journeyman coming back from Tommy John surgery.

In addition, if you don&#039;t move Hughes to the rotation now, then who will take over for Joba in August/September? If they don&#039;t send Hughes down to AAA soon, or creatively use MLB innings to stretch him back into a starter, they&#039;re essentially saying he&#039;s in the bullpen for the year and that they&#039;re willing to accept starts by lesser pitchers. 

Compare this to what happened with Dave Righetti. While Hughes has not yet shown the results that Righetti did, it should remain an important historical lesson for all those who clamor to put good young starters in the bullpen. After winning Rookie of the Year in 1981 and pitching three above average seasons (age 22-24) to an ERA+ of 117 as a starter, the Yankees moved him to the bullpen when Gossage left and they had &quot;too many&quot; starters. He excelled there because, like Hughes and Joba, he was a good young pitcher. Then, they left him there. In 1984 and 1985 the Yankees had only one pitcher who had a better ERA+ than Righetti compiled during his tenure as a starter and in 1986, when he saved a then-record 46 games, they had just two. Given that Righetti&#039;s numbers were improving--for instance, cutting his walk rate in half by his third season, increasing his strike outs each season--one can imagine that he had the potential to have been a front line starter by then. By 1990, Righetti&#039;s age 31 season, no Yankee starter was above league average and they won only 67 games. With Righetti saving games in the pen, the Yankees came close to winning the division once, in 1985, but otherwise never had the starting pitching to win. Would starting Righetti have won the pennant? Maybe, maybe not. But it would have certainly improved the Yankees chances more than having Righetti in the bullpen, as is the case with both Hughes and Joba now.

If Hughes returns to the starting rotation again, great. It will give him an opportunity to provide the most value to the team. If he is left in the bullpen simply because there are &quot;too many&quot; starters and because he&#039;s pitching well there, as one would expect with a good young pitcher with Hughes&#039; upside, then it will be a waste of what might be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While it might be the case that this is part of a &#8220;plan&#8221; that the front office does not wish to share with the public, on the surface the decision to move Hughes to the bullpen seems to be a really short-sighted one by the Yankees:</p>
<p>Wang gets hurt, they call Hughes up to start in his place. With each start, his outings get stronger. </p>
<p>Wang returns (too soon, because of the apparent fear that Joba was injured by a line drive) and rather than send Hughes down to AAA to continue gaining innings as a starter, they move him to the bullpen, even as there being numerous bullpen arms waiting in AAA (Edwar, Albaladejo, Melancon). While none of these pitchers is better than Hughes, it is also the case that Hughes-the-starter is worth more to the team than Hughes-the-reliever. And, while it is not difficult to agree that the bullpen is better because Hughes is in it, it is because, to paraphrase TSJC, he&#8217;s good at baseball. It is also the case that given contemporary bullpen usage—-in which multiple relievers are used each game in &#8220;match-up&#8221; situations—-which contributes to the volatile nature of bullpens today, that the bad bullpen in May was a statistical outlier and would not be as bad moving forward. (Unless one thinks that Hughes&#8217; mere presence in the bullpen has also contributed to the performances of Coke, Robertson, and Aceves.) </p>
<p>Now, because Hughes is in the bullpen, his arm loses stamina and he is no longer able to go deep into games. This, despite the fact that no team is likely to get through a season with just five starters. </p>
<p>Also, Joba is on an innings limit and, if I am not mistaken, will most likely hit it sometime in August or early September, which means that at the very least, and in the unlikely event that all of your starters remain healthy, you will still need a starter in a month or so. Unless the Yankees are way ahead at that point, it will be important to plug in a good starter, and not just someone who will &#8220;eat innings.&#8221;  </p>
<p>What happens? </p>
<p>Wang gets injured and, because Hughes is not available to start, they are most likely going to start Sergio Mitre, a below average journeyman coming back from Tommy John surgery.</p>
<p>In addition, if you don&#8217;t move Hughes to the rotation now, then who will take over for Joba in August/September? If they don&#8217;t send Hughes down to AAA soon, or creatively use MLB innings to stretch him back into a starter, they&#8217;re essentially saying he&#8217;s in the bullpen for the year and that they&#8217;re willing to accept starts by lesser pitchers. </p>
<p>Compare this to what happened with Dave Righetti. While Hughes has not yet shown the results that Righetti did, it should remain an important historical lesson for all those who clamor to put good young starters in the bullpen. After winning Rookie of the Year in 1981 and pitching three above average seasons (age 22-24) to an ERA+ of 117 as a starter, the Yankees moved him to the bullpen when Gossage left and they had &#8220;too many&#8221; starters. He excelled there because, like Hughes and Joba, he was a good young pitcher. Then, they left him there. In 1984 and 1985 the Yankees had only one pitcher who had a better ERA+ than Righetti compiled during his tenure as a starter and in 1986, when he saved a then-record 46 games, they had just two. Given that Righetti&#8217;s numbers were improving&#8211;for instance, cutting his walk rate in half by his third season, increasing his strike outs each season&#8211;one can imagine that he had the potential to have been a front line starter by then. By 1990, Righetti&#8217;s age 31 season, no Yankee starter was above league average and they won only 67 games. With Righetti saving games in the pen, the Yankees came close to winning the division once, in 1985, but otherwise never had the starting pitching to win. Would starting Righetti have won the pennant? Maybe, maybe not. But it would have certainly improved the Yankees chances more than having Righetti in the bullpen, as is the case with both Hughes and Joba now.</p>
<p>If Hughes returns to the starting rotation again, great. It will give him an opportunity to provide the most value to the team. If he is left in the bullpen simply because there are &#8220;too many&#8221; starters and because he&#8217;s pitching well there, as one would expect with a good young pitcher with Hughes&#8217; upside, then it will be a waste of what might be.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gxpanos</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/open-thread-damn-is-tomorrow-monday-already-edition-14128/#comment-466923</link>
		<dc:creator>gxpanos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14128#comment-466923</guid>
		<description>Mm. Try to re-read this without the initially intended sarcasm. Two things will happen: you&#039;ll read some statements that are true, and you&#039;ll happen upon a solid plan to become funnier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mm. Try to re-read this without the initially intended sarcasm. Two things will happen: you&#8217;ll read some statements that are true, and you&#8217;ll happen upon a solid plan to become funnier.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nady Nation</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/open-thread-damn-is-tomorrow-monday-already-edition-14128/#comment-466916</link>
		<dc:creator>Nady Nation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14128#comment-466916</guid>
		<description>OK, so that&#039;s half their lineup that&#039;s average or below.  I&#039;ll give you Scutaro being average, and I admit, I shouldn&#039;t have classified Overbay with that group.  Again, I acknowledged that this whole issue isn&#039;t that big a deal, just that Joba&#039;s response rubbed me the wrong way.  Don&#039;t know why my differing opinion is causing such an issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, so that&#8217;s half their lineup that&#8217;s average or below.  I&#8217;ll give you Scutaro being average, and I admit, I shouldn&#8217;t have classified Overbay with that group.  Again, I acknowledged that this whole issue isn&#8217;t that big a deal, just that Joba&#8217;s response rubbed me the wrong way.  Don&#8217;t know why my differing opinion is causing such an issue.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kunaldo</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/open-thread-damn-is-tomorrow-monday-already-edition-14128/#comment-466914</link>
		<dc:creator>kunaldo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 02:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14128#comment-466914</guid>
		<description>i mean, i see what you mean since it helps mask the sabremetric-ness of the situation from the media and the rest of the league(since the idea of no real &quot;closer&quot; and just a relief ace would come under much scrutiny).  and yes, the yankees should be able to afford both.  however, in an ideal world there should just be multiple relief aces, all of whom back up whoever gets in a hairy situation

still, as a way to ease these &quot;nerdy&quot; ideas onto the traditionalists, your idea is def excellent...with aceves :o)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i mean, i see what you mean since it helps mask the sabremetric-ness of the situation from the media and the rest of the league(since the idea of no real &#8220;closer&#8221; and just a relief ace would come under much scrutiny).  and yes, the yankees should be able to afford both.  however, in an ideal world there should just be multiple relief aces, all of whom back up whoever gets in a hairy situation</p>
<p>still, as a way to ease these &#8220;nerdy&#8221; ideas onto the traditionalists, your idea is def excellent&#8230;with aceves <img src='http://riveraveblues.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif' alt=':o' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris A</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/open-thread-damn-is-tomorrow-monday-already-edition-14128/#comment-466912</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 02:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14128#comment-466912</guid>
		<description>When I click on his name in that link it says Trenton.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I click on his name in that link it says Trenton.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Say Hey Willie</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/open-thread-damn-is-tomorrow-monday-already-edition-14128/#comment-466906</link>
		<dc:creator>Say Hey Willie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 02:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14128#comment-466906</guid>
		<description>Really?  First you want to trade Joba, which is just dumb.  Then the best target you come up with is to include other prospects and get Oswalt.  Seriously? . . . Oswalt?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really?  First you want to trade Joba, which is just dumb.  Then the best target you come up with is to include other prospects and get Oswalt.  Seriously? . . . Oswalt?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve H</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/open-thread-damn-is-tomorrow-monday-already-edition-14128/#comment-466905</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 02:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14128#comment-466905</guid>
		<description>Those are 2 of the 4 below average ones, with Wells and Rios.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those are 2 of the 4 below average ones, with Wells and Rios.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nady Nation</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/open-thread-damn-is-tomorrow-monday-already-edition-14128/#comment-466902</link>
		<dc:creator>Nady Nation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 02:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14128#comment-466902</guid>
		<description>Chavez?  Delucci?  These are above average hitters?  Whatever, sorry that I offended you guys so much by differing in opinions of Joba&#039;s postgame remarks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chavez?  Delucci?  These are above average hitters?  Whatever, sorry that I offended you guys so much by differing in opinions of Joba&#8217;s postgame remarks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Page Caching using memcached
Database Caching 2/3 queries in 0.004 seconds using memcached
Object Caching 399/399 objects using memcached

Served from: riveraveblues.com @ 2012-05-28 08:02:26 -->
