Comments on: Pondering the untouchables http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/pondering-the-untouchables-14274/ A New York Yankees Blog Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:48:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Giving up something to get something | River Avenue Blues http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/pondering-the-untouchables-14274/#comment-480735 Giving up something to get something | River Avenue Blues Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:31:10 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14274#comment-480735 [...] I last examined the questions concerning the Halladay trade, I looked at the Yankee Untouchables and concluded that just three players belonged on that list. Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes have [...] [...] I last examined the questions concerning the Halladay trade, I looked at the Yankee Untouchables and concluded that just three players belonged on that list. Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes have [...]

]]> By: YankeeScribe http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/pondering-the-untouchables-14274/#comment-470960 YankeeScribe Wed, 08 Jul 2009 23:53:45 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14274#comment-470960 Exactly. We need to add a solid starter if we're serious about making a run for #27 this year. It doesn't have to be Halladay but he would certainly better our odds more than any other pitcher that we can pickup midseason. Exactly. We need to add a solid starter if we’re serious about making a run for #27 this year. It doesn’t have to be Halladay but he would certainly better our odds more than any other pitcher that we can pickup midseason.

]]> By: BG90027 http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/pondering-the-untouchables-14274/#comment-470952 BG90027 Wed, 08 Jul 2009 23:48:21 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14274#comment-470952 This is complete B.S. and really is making my point for me. You are automatically assuming that Hughes and Joba both pan out and have long and successful careers. They both have good stuff and have had some success at the big league level but its homerism to assume that they will be better than Halladay five years from now. There are a long list of pitchers who have been very effective into their late 30's: Schilling, Clemens, Maddux, Mussina, D. Martinez, Smoltz, K. Brown, Randy Johnson. Even assuming that Halladay regresses to a #3 type starter, what makes you that confident that Joba and Hughes will ever best that. We all hope that they will but its a big leap of faith to just favor youth over someone with a record like Halladay's. This is complete B.S. and really is making my point for me. You are automatically assuming that Hughes and Joba both pan out and have long and successful careers. They both have good stuff and have had some success at the big league level but its homerism to assume that they will be better than Halladay five years from now. There are a long list of pitchers who have been very effective into their late 30′s: Schilling, Clemens, Maddux, Mussina, D. Martinez, Smoltz, K. Brown, Randy Johnson. Even assuming that Halladay regresses to a #3 type starter, what makes you that confident that Joba and Hughes will ever best that. We all hope that they will but its a big leap of faith to just favor youth over someone with a record like Halladay’s.

]]> By: Mac http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/pondering-the-untouchables-14274/#comment-470866 Mac Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:44:47 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14274#comment-470866 That's alot of "if's' and unproven pitching leading up to Mo. To be diplomatic, Marte pitched like a cowardly POS for the Yanks last year - glad to see he's turned that around. Melancon's first go round was uninspiring, Robbie's 92 mph FB and nice curve makes him a great option for the 6th inning down 7 runs. CC's 7.92 post season era doesn't exactly inspire confidence and as for Hughes, how can anyone predict what kind of starter he would be the rest of the year? I'm cool with seeing the Yanks pass on Doc, I don't think their pitching is good enough to bring #27 in 09 though. We had fun beating the hapless Mets and sinking Jays - the Sox and Angels won't be as gracious. That’s alot of “if’s’ and unproven pitching leading up to Mo.

To be diplomatic, Marte pitched like a cowardly POS for the Yanks last year – glad to see he’s turned that around.

Melancon’s first go round was uninspiring, Robbie’s 92 mph FB and nice curve makes him a great option for the 6th inning down 7 runs.

CC’s 7.92 post season era doesn’t exactly inspire confidence and as for Hughes, how can anyone predict what kind of starter he would be the rest of the year?

I’m cool with seeing the Yanks pass on Doc, I don’t think their pitching is good enough to bring #27 in 09 though. We had fun beating the hapless Mets and sinking Jays – the Sox and Angels won’t be as gracious.

]]> By: ArodMVP217 Retire 51 http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/pondering-the-untouchables-14274/#comment-470856 ArodMVP217 Retire 51 Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:32:35 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14274#comment-470856 + forty billion dollars + forty billion dollars

]]> By: Double-J http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/pondering-the-untouchables-14274/#comment-470840 Double-J Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:08:13 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14274#comment-470840 16-5 Just in case someone didn't see it the first time... 16-5

Just in case someone didn’t see it the first time…

]]> By: bravo116 http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/pondering-the-untouchables-14274/#comment-470838 bravo116 Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:05:19 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14274#comment-470838 My only question is... Can he throw to Posada? ;) My only question is… Can he throw to Posada? ;)

]]> By: BG90027 http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/pondering-the-untouchables-14274/#comment-470823 BG90027 Wed, 08 Jul 2009 20:40:27 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14274#comment-470823 Yeah, well you're right I shouldn't have said crazy. I also wasn't orginally reacting to your post in particular but I do think people are too easily dismissive. I wouldn't say 32 is "quite old" especially since he's not a power pitcher. I think he has at least a couple elite years left and many more very good years. I don't understand how you couldn't at least be pretty damn tempted to trade a single unproven prospect, even one with as great upside as Montero has, for an elite pitcher like Halladay. I do that trade in a second. Its when you add multiple prospects that I start to question the wisdom. The Yankees don't need starting pitching but if you have an opportunity to add Halladay to your staff, you have to seriously consider it. The championship teams of the Yankees were always built around stacked starting rotations. This is the deepest rotation the team has had in a while but its still not as strong as the championship years. Maybe I just think a lot more of Halladay than you do. If you wouldn't trade Montero for Halladay though, how many starting pitchers would you be willing to consider trading him for? I can't think of that many pitchers that I'd rather add than Halladay, even considering age. To me prefering to keep a guy unproven above AA over Halladay is being too much in love with a prospect. Yeah, well you’re right I shouldn’t have said crazy. I also wasn’t orginally reacting to your post in particular but I do think people are too easily dismissive.

I wouldn’t say 32 is “quite old” especially since he’s not a power pitcher. I think he has at least a couple elite years left and many more very good years. I don’t understand how you couldn’t at least be pretty damn tempted to trade a single unproven prospect, even one with as great upside as Montero has, for an elite pitcher like Halladay. I do that trade in a second. Its when you add multiple prospects that I start to question the wisdom. The Yankees don’t need starting pitching but if you have an opportunity to add Halladay to your staff, you have to seriously consider it. The championship teams of the Yankees were always built around stacked starting rotations. This is the deepest rotation the team has had in a while but its still not as strong as the championship years.

Maybe I just think a lot more of Halladay than you do. If you wouldn’t trade Montero for Halladay though, how many starting pitchers would you be willing to consider trading him for? I can’t think of that many pitchers that I’d rather add than Halladay, even considering age. To me prefering to keep a guy unproven above AA over Halladay is being too much in love with a prospect.

]]> By: Tank Foster http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/pondering-the-untouchables-14274/#comment-470765 Tank Foster Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:46:06 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14274#comment-470765 "I also suspect that his stuff probably ages better than CC’s or Santana’s and I wouldn’t be as concerned about acquiring a young 30’s Halladay as I would be acquiring a young 30’s fireballer." I used to think that, too, but I'm not as sure anymore. There are examples of all types of pitchers "aging well," but in general I think guys who strike out lots of guys overall age better. Why? Because they can fall back on the "crafty" ways of getting guys out. Pitchers who don't get lots of Ks are already making use of the alternate ways, and have less room to adapt as they age and lose their stuff. “I also suspect that his stuff probably ages better than CC’s or Santana’s and I wouldn’t be as concerned about acquiring a young 30’s Halladay as I would be acquiring a young 30’s fireballer.”

I used to think that, too, but I’m not as sure anymore. There are examples of all types of pitchers “aging well,” but in general I think guys who strike out lots of guys overall age better. Why? Because they can fall back on the “crafty” ways of getting guys out. Pitchers who don’t get lots of Ks are already making use of the alternate ways, and have less room to adapt as they age and lose their stuff.

]]> By: Alex http://riveraveblues.com/2009/07/pondering-the-untouchables-14274/#comment-470764 Alex Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:45:18 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=14274#comment-470764 I am sure Toronto would take less if they included Rios as a salary dump situation. I would trade Joba, Romine, Melky, and One other pitcher Nova type prospect for Halladay and Rios. Not sure the Jays do that but if the yankees eat salary they get less. Rios isnt bad anyways. I am sure Toronto would take less if they included Rios as a salary dump situation. I would trade Joba, Romine, Melky, and One other pitcher Nova type prospect for Halladay and Rios. Not sure the Jays do that but if the yankees eat salary they get less. Rios isnt bad anyways.

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