Another reason to exercise patience with Joba
ByJoba Chamberlain is not currently a pleasant topic among Yankees fans. After three stellar starts to open the second half, he’s been on a slide since, pitching 23 innings and allowing 21 runs in August. His 18:15 K/BB ratio is not pretty either, nor is his .914 OPS against.
While the times haven’t been kind to Joba, many of us are still looking forward to his potential. This is why, to answer a commenter, why he gets so much attention. Poor results don’t take away from his potential as a front-line pitcher. It just means that he’s not accomplishing that at this moment — as a 23-year-old in his second full major league season.
How much patience should the Yankees exercise? Jonathan Lehman of the NY Post points to another young starter who came up as a reliever, then transitioned to the rotation: St. Louis’s Adam Wainwright. At age 24 he began the season in the Cardinals bullpen and moved himself into the closer’s role by season’s end. He was a revelation out there — much like Chamberlain, but over a longer period. The Cardinals then transitioned him back to the rotation, and he’s been a solid contributor ever since.
There are definitely differences between each player’s path leading to and through the majors. Wainwright, a 2000 draftee, didn’t even get a cup of coffee until 2005, and then came up full-time in 2006. This means he spent almost five full seasons in the minors. Joba, a 2006 draftee, spent May through July in the Yankees’ minor league system, missing April with a hamstring injury, and then being called up in August.
Joba dominated out of the gate as a starter in 2008, while Wainwright, despite his more than acceptable ERA, struggled at times. He allowed more than a hit an inning, his walk rate was up, and his strikeout rate was down by 2.5 per nine. Wainwright then showed some improvement the next year, though he spent some time on the DL, while Joba has seemingly regressed a bit in his sophomore campaign.
Most importantly, it appears that the Cardinals did a good job of keeping Wainwright’s innings in check. His 202 innings in 2007 might seem like a huge jump from the 76 he pitched out of the bullpen in 2006, but in 2005 Wainwright tossed 182 innings. He had tossed around 160 innings in 2001 and 2002, making the jump to 182 in 2005 easier to take. To that end, Wainwright has been mostly healthy in the majors, save for a finger sprain in 2008.
At age 27, Wainwright is experiencing what could be a Cy Young season. It wasn’t an easy path there, but the Cardinals were patient with their 6’7″ hurler, and it’s paying off now. Keep in mind, when Wainwright was Chamberlain’s age he had just two major league innings under his belt. He had just finished up a season in AAA in which he pitched 182 innings of 4.40 ERA ball. In 133.2 innings, that’s just about Joba’s ERA now, except he’s doing it at the major league level.
It’s easy to be down on Joba now. He hasn’t pitched well in a month. The Yankees odd handling of him, while completely defensible from a development standpoint, is unfamiliar and is the cause of even more criticism. I don’t think this string of bad starts, even when combined with his other poor outings this year, takes away from his long-term potential. Young pitchers go through growing pains, and patience is necessary. The Cardinals exercised it with Wainwright, and now they have a Cy Young candidate on their hands. The Yankees could find themselves in a similar position a year or two from now.
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Finally, my Wainwright example gets its credit… YES!!
Funny you should mention Adam Wainwright, the Post actually wrote a good piece on Joba. They actually advocated that Joba stay in the roatation (who woulda thunk it?)
Solid work Joseph.
oh duh, didn’t read your entire post.
stupid me
It is moments like these where I wish I had a delete button,
And a dark black blanket that should shield you from the shameful rays of the sun’s blinding light of truth.
Or, at least, a nice bottle of Johnnie Walker Black.
I have the dumb today.
Today?
I keed, I keed.
You’re still my boy, Zig.
Another reason to exercise patience with Joba
http://vids.myspace.com/index......d=56675734
The full episode. SWEET. If you were searching for a way to waste 21 minutes and 35 seconds, YOU JUST FOUND IT, BUDDY!!!
i watched 25 seconds of it… can i get my time back?
You bailed too soon.
… you impatient bastard.
lol, i couldn’t take it… I COULDN’T TAKE IT!!!
I don’t know what to say…
There is no way that is SFW
ZOMG ALWAYS A POST ABOUT JOBA!!!!!!!
In all seriousness, they should exercise plenty of patience, throwing out the “year” of professional ball in 2006, which was really pitching at Nebraska & then Hawaii, he has just under 3 seasons playing professional ball, of which he spent less than 1 in minors. He’s going to struggle with command and mechanics like everyone, and given he has ~250 career major league innings (about the same amount CC threw last year) he’s got plenty of ways to go.
Keys are:
He’s shown the dominating stuff, he’s show that he has the skills to go out and dominate everyone at the ML level so its just a matter of consistency.
Despite his struggle his ERA is still under 4.50
There’s a long line of guys with great stuff, came up, had their ups and downs, before settling out. This is normal
Yankees can afford to take their time have their ups and downs.
Amen to this entire post. Nice work, Joe.
He should get a lot of attention.
Hes a 23 yr old pitcher with loads of talent and to top it off he has a dynamic personality.
He hasnt had stage fright in NY and thats one of the things you need to see out of young pitchers (actually any pitcher) in NY.
The lack of patience is, IMO, just a byproduct of many Yankee fans not having seen the development process of a young pitcher in a long, long time. Hopefully, Yankee fans can begin to be as patient as the players they root for are at the plate.
That last line was so lame.
http://www.instantcrickets.com/
You have the dumb, I have the corny. We both suck.
Good piece, good comments, good site. Fortunately, the Yankees realize that they have a potential front of the rotation starter and will be patient with him. BTW, (and I think you have done this), if you look at Joba’s numbers versus most top starters at his age, they don’t look half bad at all.
Since this is a post about Joba i dont think this question is too off topic: (i apologize if it is)
Should i drop Joba in my fantasy league right now since he wont do much for me this season and I will not be keeping him for next season.
Why won’t you be keeping him for next season? If it’s not a keeper league, from a fantasy perspective, you’re better off finding a starter who will go innings with wins and strike outs right now. If it is a keeper league, hold onto Joba.
Assuming its a keeper league, guys like Joba are exactly the guys you scramble to get right now.
Fact: Joba Chamberlain pounds 2 Redbulls before he starts/enters a game.
Maybe he should kick it up to 4…
Maybe he should just shotgun them instead.
Or switch to Jack Daniels…
Or go to 5 hour energy, no sugar crash!!!
/Osi commercial’d
Edited by RAB: Some people need new hobbies. Or a life.
You bite your tongur mister =) Ban yourself!
tongur=tongue
You are an epic fail. This is the most pathetic thing I’ve seen since Sarah Palin.
Think about Ben’s idea for a sec- if you put Hughes and Joba in teh pen, den da game becomes a faw innin’ game fo aw stawtas. As a result, Burnett doesn’t look like teh ovapaid bum in deh pinstripes.
-sarcasm
I found Palin kinda hot, actually.
http://img2.moonbuggy.org/imgs.....vagina.jpg (NSFW)
Meh, I was talking about her career as a viable, respectable stateswoman, not her career as a hot chick.
She’s definitely doable, as long as she promises to not speak, or think.
This post confuses me.
That’s because it’s clearly our repeatedly banned and now IP-hopping friend Jim the Jew in a horribly crappy disguise.
He has way too much free time on his hands to be IP hopping.
And way too little perspective, not to mention not enough of a sense of shame and humility.
and you doubted my assertion on his lack of credibility from the start.
Yes, but your attack was still an ad hom attack. You’re not getting off the hook just because he’s proven to be a nutjob.
Right.
A good outcome reached by using bad process is really the product of dumb luck. It’s all about the process, jsb.
http://itmightbedangerous.blog.....ocess.html
how does you have no credibility because the first two things out of your mouth are pettitte doesn’t throw a slider (he does) and joba and hughes should be in the pen (no analysis or reason why or opinion) qualify as an ad hominem?
i believe that there isn’t a credible case to be made to send them both to the pen. therefore i feel anyone who says that lacks credibility. Couple that with the fact that andy pettitte does in fact throw a slider when our semitic friend said he did not. where is the ad hominem?
am i not understanding the term? cause i think i am.
the points i was attacking were the idea of sending joba and hughes to the pen and that pettitte threw a slider. i wasnt using those to attack another opinion.
i believe that there isn’t a credible case to be made to send them both to the pen. therefore i feel anyone who says that lacks credibility. Couple that with the fact that andy pettitte does in fact throw a slider when our semitic friend said he did not. where is the ad hominem?
You were basically using the fact that he was a B-Jobber to imply that his position on whether or not Andy threw a slider shouldn’t be trusted.
That’s an ad hom. But whatevs, screw that guy, he’s dead to the world.
no, i added that in after he said andy didnt throw a slider and told ben to do siome research and he was provne wrong by fangraphs pages. i only threw that in there because of that
your honor, i submit to you, exhibit a:
i made the comment in question at 10:36 am
exhibit b:
at 10:24 in the am our good friend matt acty/bbd posted a link to the fangraphs page saying pettitte threw a slider and how often in response to our semitic friend’s comment from 10:17 AM
so i was basically responding to both. he was wrong on both counts and therefore that is why i threw in the pettitte comment about the joba/hughes thing
but what do i know, i’m just some giant space chicken lawyer.
And I thought I had too much time on my hands at work.
This whole thing is just really sad and pathetic. It always ends up happening on message boards. Usually some kids who have nothing better to do in the summer. Just require registration and the problem corrects itself. Otherwise just ignore trolls and ban people with fewer warnings. They always go away eventually.
The only problem with registration is that it severely curtails the number of people commenting. Asking for a valid e-mail address, even an anonymous one, really turns people off. We will institute it though if this behavior doesn’t stop.
Yeah, I see what you mean. Your policy is pretty good because you specifically say:
“We ask — but do not require — that you provide a real e-mail address in the e-mail field.”
That is about the most unobtrusive requirement I have ever seen on any message board.
I’m adopting the policy of just not feeding the trolls. Not gonna even touch obvious trolls.
I can understand that worry, but just as a daily visitor I’d be happy for it because of days like today. Whatever you decide to do…changes nothing for me.
Eh if a troll/jerk wants to do annoying things like this, they’ll just register.
Yeah, I think a ticking time bomb, firing squad, and a moat filled with alligators wouldn’t have stopped Jim the Semite from his mission to bring RAB to its knees with his mighty powers of impersonation and empty threats.
Awesome, awesome comment.
I’d bet you’re right that an e-mail requirement would reduce the amount of comments. There are, however, a TON of people who regularly comment, so I wonder how much the drop-off would be.
Either way, you guys run a great blog and I’m sure you’ll make the right decision.
Ahh. See I mean I know I did some foolish stuff…but I didn’t continuously come back for the sole purpose of antagonizing people. I made a mistake…acted foolish…did something similar to this here…learned my lesson and tried to at least stay somewhat baseball related with decent material. I didn’t want to IP hop around or anything. I probably could have but my intentions weren’t to play tricks on people. I’m actually still banned from my home I believe and I told my friends about it and they wanted to help me IP hop or whatever but, again, the point wasn’t to try and defy authority and “beat the system” by doing a bunch of childish stuff.
Anyway, hopefully this ends soon and I’m actually embarrassed that I can be tied to this guy by doing something similar. Again, I apologize. You don’t really sometimes see the way you are until you see the same thing in somebody else. Well, at least some people are able to see it and change anyway.
Dude, this isn’t about you.
It isn’t. But I did something similar and I’m actively on the site…so I felt it relevant to comment.
Must you comment on everything I post? One would you think you have a poster on your wall with my online handle on it lol
Corrected:
It isn’t. But I did something similar and I’m actively on the site…so I felt it relevant to comment.
Must you comment on everything I post? One would
youthink that you have a poster on your wall with my online handle on it lol(Pssst… you’re doing it again…)
Ughh. I write something normal and apologetic to something relevant…and basically get accused of being self-centered.
Oh well. I’m over it. I tried.
I’m gone for the day anyway, have a nice night everyone.
Like TSJC said earlier, if you insist on reminding everyone of the your past on RAB, it’ll never go away. Everyone else is more than willing to move on and never speak of it again, you’re the only one who keeps bringing it up. Just forget it, we don’t have to hear about it or discuss it in every single thread. The last thing I want, and I assume the last thing anyone else wants, is to have another conversation about Axl/Makavelli.
I wasn’t trying to insult you. If you let it go and just stop bring it up constantly, the RAB world will be a better place for you and everyone else.
It’s kind of hard not to mention the past when I’m still banned from my house. If everybody is so easily understanding and able to forget the past and move forward…than why am I still banned from my house?
All I was saying is that I’m still banned from my house and I haven’t obsessed over IP hopping to “beat the system” that’s all.
Whatever. Goodnight
I think we should all let bygones be bygones. Axl/Makavelli is attempting, in his own way, to apologize. We should accept it and move back to talking about the Yankees.
Thanks Ben.
Everybody wish me luck on my two fantasy football drafts tonight!
Ben – Respectfully, clearly I agree, but…
He has apologized. And discussed this stuff. In every thread. All day.
It’s enough. Nobody comes here to read about or discuss Axl/Makavelli. If he never stops apologizing and discussing this stuff it’ll never go away.
I know, but at some point the rest of us just need to drop it too. If we don’t keep discussing the apology, eventually it ends.
If we don’t keep discussing the apology, eventually it ends.
… we hope.
Makavelli says:
Everybody wish me luck on my two fantasy football drafts tonight!
Good luck, dude. Hopefully you do way better at fantasy drafting than Jim the Jew does at commenting on blogs.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW, TOO SOOOOOOOON????
2nd Ave Sagas link, huh?
It would be funny if this really is Ben and is trying to play around with us.
That’s the link I use now in here because that site needs the traffic more than this one. Plus, a few RAB commenters urged me to plug that more when they said they didn’t realize I had another site.
But yeah, this troll is thorough.
But yeah, this troll is
thorougha pathetic loser with an irrational axe to grind.Fixed that for ya.
Gotcha.
And this troll should be in the Troll HOF.
Making a troll HOF or (hall of shame) seems like a good idea, but in reality it encourages them. It is like allowing the terrorists to win.
I believe you mean “terriosts.”
Deney Terriosts?
are they of the touchtone variety?
You’re picking up what I’m putting down…
Sloppy seconds?
RAB is just one massive psychological experiment to see what happens when site administrators build up trust and goodwill and then suddenly show traits of the unreliable narrator.
We’re all test mice. Phase 2 just started.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.....experiment
or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
Thurgood: Hey, if you need a guinea pig, lemme know. My grandfather was in the Tuskegee Experiments.
the same thing we do every night Pinkie…
It’s a conspiracy! Soylent Green is people!!
Next year will be known as ‘the year of teh Joba,’ book it!
Did anyone see the Joba Chamberlain to Felix Hernandez Comparison that was on ESPN after he pitched his 3 inning game?
John Kruk… (as if he knew anything about pitching) was saying how Felix Hernandez has only been pithcing 4 years and Joba 3 years… which i don’t Understand if you’re counting Joba’s first Short year and this year, you should be counting Felix’s First short year and this year, which brings his total to 5…
The comparison showed Total Innings pitched and Strikeouts and other statistics and Kruk said Joba should be able to pitch however many innings he can…
As if i don’t hate John Kruk enough…
I saw a brief clip in which he compared the two. It was completely out of no where and I didn’t understand it at all. I guess he was saying Joba should be better ’cause he’s older? I have no idea what he meant by it.
Well, he was just saying how the M’s let Felix pitch or w/e and how Joba’s future role is uncertain(which could not be more wrong).
Well, John. If Yankees didn’t fuck up and put him in the bullpen in 07, he WOULD most likely be pitching more innings right now.
But like Ben said the other night, who gives a fuck about John Kruk. We really shouldn’t, or else he wins.
We as Yankees fans, we can’t let John Kruk win.
We need another example?
http://www.baseball-reference......jo02.shtml
Hey ZZ, this Zubway Zangwich zure is good.
lol That commercial kills me.
You know, that sandwich doesn’t exist near Buffalo? Every SubWay I tried knows nothing of it and my niece’s boyfriend works at one. I had to show him the commercial so he’d believe me.
Gah, I realized after I hit Add Comment how bad my sentences were there.
There’s only one thing to do in an embarrassing situation like this:
Start impersonating Benjamin Kabak. Go down in a blaze of glory.
Does Joba have any comparables to current AL starters? i’m sure Wainwright is very impressive but I dont watch the Cards…till postseason of course. If Joba is never going to be as good as Verlander in terms of holding his stuff late in games, what do u guys think of a Josh Beckett comp? not original … i know
I think he has to get in gain some stamina this offseason before he can pitch to Verlander’s avg velocity deep in games
Maybe, maybe not. He was doing it last year though pre-shoulder injury.
I know I might be jumping the gun on the “he’ll never hit 97 consistently ish” but it would be real nice if he had that pitch. I know you can get by on 91 with good command, there’s no doubt. But, if he had the 97 with good command and his nasty slider working….
Does he ever hit 95-97 consistently again?
His best comp: Ricky Bobby.
Interpret that however you choose. Enjoy.
Wainwright was a first round draft pick.Joba was a 2 round draft pick because of weight and injury issues.
Yes lets be patience with Joba but he isn’t this Verlander guy that will dominate now.Joba like all Yankee prospects aren’t great there good.Stop overhyping Joba as a Tim Lincecum guy he isn’t and Hughes isn’t a Pitching Phenom either.
Does this count as trolling?
Is there going to be an addition to the commenting guidelines that says “You may not feed the trolls”?
I don’t think anyone should respond to this. Maybe just a meme, but that;s all.
This guy is just…..
Responding to JHTTP is like being Mayor Vaughn in Jaws. You’re only allowing the shark’s food supply to remain intact. Stop responding and it’ll go away. Then again, we could have someone hired to “kill” the “shark.” Who wants to be RAB’s Quint?
somebody from long island…
this guy…
No, no. He is “that guy”
.Stop overhyping Joba as a Tim Lincecum guy he isn’t and Hughes isn’t a Pitching Phenom either.
Joba or Hughes to the pen a/k/a touchtoneterriost is not a commenting phenom.
Whoa whoa whoa. Lets be patience, dude.
Joba has gone backwards. 2007 he was a big time weapon look at him today. Would anyone want to see Joba listed as the game 4 starter of the Championship Series or World Series. The Yanks should work him out of the pen for the rest of the season and maybe just maybe they can win this thing the way they did in 96 by shutting people down after the 6th inning.
Would you start Joba in a World Series game this year?
just askin.