Assessing Brackman’s Season, Part II

Yanks to start, end 2010 in Boston
Pettitte to miss start with shoulder fatigue

Two years ago, the Yankees selected righthander Andrew Brackman with their first round pick, knowing full well that he might need elbow surgery at some point, perhaps as soon as that summer. Brackman showed tremendous raw stuff and considerable potential as an amateur, the reasons why he was ranked so high in pre-draft rankings (Keith Law had him as the third best prospect in the draft class). The Yankees were willing to gamble and wait on his talent, especially with a pick so late in first round.

As expected, Brackman underwent Tommy John surgery soon after signing a Major League deal worth $3.35 million guaranteed with incentives that could push the total value of the contract to $13 million. At the time, it was potentially the richest contract in draft history. Brackman spent all of 2008 rehabbing but returned to action in the now defunct Hawaii Winter Baseball League last fall where he was ranked the number two prospect by Baseball America (subs. req’d).

Brackman’s long awaited full season debut didn’t go as smoothly as planned this year. It featured a few ups but considerably more downs. His overall season line — 106.2 IP, 106 H, 79 R, 76 BB, 103 K — isn’t pretty, and his 26 wild pitches were second most in all of minor league baseball. The way I see it Brackman’s season can be broken down into three distinct periods, which I’ll arbitrarily call Good Brackman, Bad Brackman, and Reliever Brackman.

We already took a look at Good Brackman yesterday, and now we’re going to examine Bad Brackman.

* * *

After nine good starts with the River Dogs, Brackman’s season started the unravel at the end of May with the infamous ten walk game. The next nine starts following that one were better, relatively speaking, but still atrocious by any measure. Even though his strikeout rate remained strong at 8.49 K/9, the rest of his peripherals were downright ugly:

11.83 BB/9
0.72 K/BB
10.80 H/9
1.29 HR/9
.343 BABIP
7.11 FIP

He managed to throw just 35 innings in those ten starts, and as ugly as the numbers are, Brackman’s stuff may have been worse. Dave Cameron of USS Mariner and FanGraphs fame took in the big guy’s July 23rd start at Greensboro, and let’s just say he came away less than impressed:

In the first inning, he sat 90-92 with the fastball, going to the outside corner against RHBs. The pitch had some decent movement down and away, and profiled as the kind of pitch that could get groundballs. His command was poor, as expected, walking the leadoff batter, but even once he got ahead in the count, it became obvious he didn’t have anything else besides the fastball. On an 0-2 count, he threw a 73 MPH curve with no tilt that bounced about a foot in front of the plate. He came back with another weak 72 MPH curve that just hung in the strike zone begging to be hit. He went back to the fastball and got through the first inning, but wasn’t impressive.

Then came the second inning. The fastball dipped down to 88, but he still popped 92 occasionally, but the breaking ball was just awful, and the Greensboro hitters were sitting on his fastball. His command went in the toilet, and the movement on his fastball ran right into LHBs wheelhouse, giving them a chance to take batting practice. Kyle Skipworth, who isn’t exactly a good hitting prospect, launched one of Brackman’s fastballs deep into the night sky. Every left-hander just pounded the fastball, and the curve simply wasn’t good enough to keep hitters off balance.

I respect Cameron’s opinion, but he’s also the same guy that said he wouldn’t trade Jeremy Reed for Jonathan Papelbon or Jon Lester, so maybe we should take his report with a grain of salt. Regardless, the key point is that not only had Brackman shown no improvement with his stuff, but his command and control had completely deteriorated.

He walked four or more batters in a game seven times in that stretch, but amazingly went walk-free in one game. It was just a tease though, because Brackman issued eight free passes in his next 7.1 IP. As if the walks weren’t troubling enough, he also uncorked 16 (!) wild pitches and plunked five batters in those 35 innings. Control always takes some time to come back after Tommy John surgery, but that’s completely unacceptable at any level.

Developing comfortable and repeatable mechanics are always an issue with tall pitchers (Randy Johnson walked 222 batters in 259.2 IP between Single- and Double-A), but such extreme control problems indicate there was more than just inconsistent mechanics at work here. I have no idea what’s behind all this, but I imagine it’s a combination of things rather than just one big core problem. I’m sure his confidence is suffering a bit, which can’t be helping things.

If there’s one positive thing we can take from this horrible stretch of “pitching,” it’s that Brackman made every start. It’s not much, but it’s important because you can’t work on anything if you aren’t healthy enough to take the mound. Brackman had one start skipped by design during this stretch, but otherwise he took the ball every five days without incident. However, with little to no progress being made, the organization couldn’t just keep letting Brackman embarrass himself by running him out there every five days.

Tomorrow, in the final installment of this mini-series, we’ll take a look at Reliever Brackman.

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Yanks to start, end 2010 in Boston
Pettitte to miss start with shoulder fatigue
  • Andy In Sunny Daytona

    Don’t worry Mike. Brackman will be in Tampa at some point, then you will get an awesome report from me. As always? I just have to stay away from the beer, the delicious, delicious beer.

  • Mattingly’s Love Child

    At the beginning of the year I looked forward to seeing how Brackman did. At this point, I didn’t want to know. It’s tough seeing a potential prospect’s career going down the shitter. Those here yesterday know my concerns about the ability of his stuff to bounceback, but I don’t think there has ever been an incredibly tall pitcher that just got it from an early age (it being mechanics, velocity, command, etc). It would be insane to give up at this point, but it was masochistic to look forward to his starts during this run.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68http://riveraveblues.com/2009/09/assessing-brackmans-season-part-i-16790/#comment-579681 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      It’s tough seeing a potential prospect’s career going down the shitter.

      Step back from the ledge, MLC.

      • http://www.richardiurilli.com Richard Iurilli

        You’re calling his career over after one season? That’s a little premature, no?

        • http://z.about.com/d/tvcomedies/1/0/F/-/-/-/judge310_72.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          To whom are you responding? Neither TSJC nor MLC said anything of the sort.

          • http://www.richardiurilli.com Richard Iurilli

            MLC:

            “It’s tough seeing a potential prospect’s career going down the shitter.”

            That’s about as close to declaring someone a bust as you can get without saying he should go home and retire.

            • Mattingly’s Love Child

              See my statement right below here. Yeah, career going down the shitter is probably a little strong of a statement. But it would also accurately describe what was happening. His career ain’t over by any stretch. He’s just in a BIG hole. The relief appearances showed me something though.

              • jsbrendog

                how about circling the toilet bowl? better?

                • Mattingly’s Love Child

                  I like that.

            • http://z.about.com/d/tvcomedies/1/0/F/-/-/-/judge310_72.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

              Did you read the rest of his comment, or his response below (written before your 4:41 response)? He clearly isn’t saying what you think he’s saying. Remember when he said “it would be insane to give up at this point, but it was masochistic to look forward to his starts during this run in his original comment? He pretty clearly meant it was hard watching him struggle so badly, not that he thinks his career is over.

              • http://www.richardiurilli.com Richard Iurilli

                I actually hadn’t read the below comment before making this post. I replied to the strength of the language used in the previous post. Given the clarification, I take back what I said.

      • Mattingly’s Love Child

        Oh, I wasn’t saying that I was giving up. But it was a huge slide from his earlier production. When you have a 24yr old, former 1st round pick struggling to do anything right in Low-A, I’d call that sending his career down a tough road.

        I definitely think he can still do it. The fact that he got through the year without injury is a victory. But he now has to get over the mental part of getting his ass whooped, as well as find his mechanics and stuff.

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68http://riveraveblues.com/2009/09/assessing-brackmans-season-part-i-16790/#comment-579681 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

    11.83 BB/9
    0.72 K/BB
    10.80 H/9

    That’s just mind-bottling. You look at those numbers, and you’re almost like, “Wait, he must be doing that on purpose. That’s gotta be a typo.”

    But it wasn’t. Ugh.

    • Rick in Boston

      I’m trying to figure out what those guys striking out were thinking? Were they just standing there, got to a full count and their manager told them to take it?

      • Accent Shallow

        This is why it’s instructive to look at strikeouts as a percentage of PAs, rather than on a per-inning basis. An 8.5 K/9 from a guy with a WHIP of 2.51 (no, not a typo) is actually worse than a K/9 of 7.5 from a guy with a WHIP of 1.00.

        Just for the record: that’s a K/PA% of 17.1%, whereas the second pitcher (who doesn’t exist), would have a K% of 20.8%.

    • Salty Buggah

      I think the same thing when alex gonzalez posts something irrational (like below this comment). I think he’s just joking and is messing with us. But he’s not.

  • alex gonzalez

    at what point can we say this kid won’t turn into anything. he is the new eric duncan. he signed with the yankees as there top draft pick. he is looking right now like he will never pitch a day in the major leagues.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68http://riveraveblues.com/2009/09/assessing-brackmans-season-part-i-16790/#comment-579681 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      I’m totally unsurprised by this response. Saw this coming a mile away.

      • Lanny

        Totally shocked that Eric thinks Brackman is a top prospect.

    • http://www.richardiurilli.com Richard Iurilli

      Eric Duncan just completed his sixth full season in the minor leagues.

      Andrew Brackman just completed his first full season in the minor leagues.

      Apples and oranges.

      • alex gonzalez

        fine they are completely different cases. this kid was drafted two years ago and he has done worse than people selected in th 50th round. he is an example of the yankee hype machine.

        • Rick in Boston

          Keith Law had him the #3 draft prospect prior to his draft year. Baseball America had him the #2 prospect in the Hawaiian league. Neither of those are part of the ‘Yankee hype machine’. He also missed one year with Tommy John – the Yankees are happy he made it through a year healthy with no injury issues.

          • alex gonzalez

            oh well if keith law said it must be true. no one has ever been wrong about hyping a prospect who turns out to be a nobody. lets look at the numbers since you are all using only emotion and always criticize me for doing that 11.83 BB/9 0.72 K/BB 10.80 H/9. looks like he will be a real control pitcher in the major leagues. i can’t wait for a team to bat around without even having to swing.

            • JobaWockeeZ

              http://tinyurl.com/orysm9

              If you are already calling someone a bust after their first year in the minors then you need patience. There’s this dude, his name is Derek and he sucked in his first year in the minors.

              And no they did not release him and say this guy is teh sux0r.

              • alex gonzalez

                this is a pitcher. apples to oranges. that guy named Derek wasn’t coming back from surgery. also he didn’t put up ungodly horrible numbers. if this kid wasn’t such a highly drafted prospect he would have already been released.

                • JGS

                  I would think the coming back from surgery would be a mitigating factor

                • keithr

                  Ban please

                • JobaWockeeZ

                  A OPS of .611 is horrible. And you completely missed the point. You don’t give up a prospect based on their first year.

                • alex gonzalez

                  why do i deserve a ban. i completely follow the commenting guidelines.

                • JGS

                  and 56 errors in 126 games (.889 fielding %) is pretty ungodly terrible

                • alex gonzalez

                  no you missed the point. you compared a pitcher and a position player apple to oranges. i compare eric duncan and brackman and get criticized. jeter and brackman are completely different cases. i see what you are trying to argue but you used the wrong player to do it.

                • Tom Zig

                  Doesn’t coming back from surgery mean we should be MORE patient and not less?

                  Pitchers coming back from Tommy John Surgery can take up to 18 months to recover. Couple that with the fact that Brackman hadn’t pitched since 2007. How many times do we have to say that he is completely relearning his craft. We are the Yankees, we take financial risks because we can, why complain?. If he doesn’t succeed by the time he is 30, then you can call him a bust.

                • alex gonzalez

                  well i just don’t want people calling him a top prospect. how about he could turn into a very good player, but someone “relearning their craft” shouldn’t be considered a top prospect. i still think he wont become anything. but to still call him a top prospect is a stretch.

                • Salty Buggah

                  Who ever called him a top prospect? He’s a really good PROSPECT though because of his potential.

                • alex gonzalez

                  mike axisa on many occasions over the last couple of years.

                • JobaWockeeZ

                  Did anyone here think so now? We’re saying don’t give up on him because he still can turn things around. We’re not saying he’s super special awesome and he’ll be the new number one guy when he comes up.

                  Randy wasn’t really special in the minors as well. Granted not as bad as Brackman but he also had control problems. He walked quite a lot of batters. Young starters will do that.

                  And somehow I’m going to turn this into an unrelated Joba thing but Randy had control problems in the minors and just a bit older than Joba pitching in the majors in the AL East right now. We gotta be patient with these young pitchers.

                • alex gonzalez
                • Tom Zig

                  He was/is considered a top prospect because he prospectively (UCWIDT?) could become a front line starter.

                • JobaWockeeZ

                  mike axisa on many occasions over the last couple of years.

                  …Because he was a couple years ago

                • Rick in Boston

                  Mike said he was a top prospect in February. That was before this happened. Would you have rather he got hurt instead of posting the statistical line he did?

                • Salty Buggah

                  Hold on a second. You’re a former regular (one of the irrational ones) here arent you?

                  I remember from one of your first days, you said you just saw this website on TV and came here to talk with Yanks fans. Then once I called you a troll, you said something like you came here a like just a while back in one of the nesting comments.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68http://riveraveblues.com/2009/09/assessing-brackmans-season-part-i-16790/#comment-579681 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  And, you know what:

                  HE’S STILL A TOP PROSPECT NOW.

                  At this level of the minors, and given his TJS history, it’s still too early to dock him all the way down to non-top prospect status. It’s more about potential than results for now.

                  If he has another clunker season, THEN he’ll cease being a top prospect.

                • jsbrendog

                  Hold on a second. You’re a former regular (one of the irrational ones) here arent you?

                  heh. he’s gotta be joba and hughes to the pen.

                  he makes me miss 65hughes and his endless peavy pining

                • Tom Zig

                  65hughes is still around, he just has a different name. He has since stopped the peavy pining and occasionally makes good comments when he comes by. And no he isn’t mryankee.

                • jsbrendog

                  is he tom zig?

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68http://riveraveblues.com/2009/09/assessing-brackmans-season-part-i-16790/#comment-579681 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  Is he Brendo/jsbrendog?

                • Salty Buggah

                  I guess he could be JOHTTP. I mean AG knows what Mike said 2 years ago but when he came here, he said he just saw this site on TV. It’s gotta be someone like him.

                • Tom Zig

                  very funny.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68http://riveraveblues.com/2009/09/assessing-brackmans-season-part-i-16790/#comment-579681 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  Joba and Hughes to the Pen is touchtoneterriost and Adrian-Retire-21.

                  mryankee and alex gonzalez and 65hughes are three different posters, at least until there’s evidence to the contrary.

                • Tom Zig

                  No, i think 65hughes is 13arod-fan (or something like that)

                • jsbrendog

                  Is he Brendo/jsbrendog?

                  hey now. most definitely not. the only alter ego jsbrendog has ever had on RAB is jsbrendog (rocks). jsbrendog aproves this announcement

                  although i did fall prey to the (insert athlete or movie star here) name and saying hello.

                • jsbrendog

                  Joba and Hughes to the Pen is touchtoneterriost and Adrian-Retire-21.

                  mryankee and alex gonzalez and 65hughes are three different posters, at least until there’s evidence to the contrary.

                  hmm interesting how did you figure this out?

                  No, i think 65hughes is 13arod-fan (or something like that)

                  i know who you mean yeah he does have good stuff to say sometimes, and did bakc then too haha but he sure did love him some peavy

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68http://riveraveblues.com/2009/09/assessing-brackmans-season-part-i-16790/#comment-579681 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  hmm interesting how did you figure this out?

                  I know things. Let’s leave it at that.

                  Sal/Grant/Lanny/Bo: confirmed
                  Joba and Hughes to the Pen/touchtoneterriost/Adrian-Retire-21: confirmed

                  All others (more or less), unconfirmed.

                • Tom Zig

                  He gave favors to the webmaster!

              • Lanny

                Please dont try to make this point by comparing Jeter at 18 to Brackman at 24.

                I beg u

            • Rick in Boston

              That’s not what I said, nor what you said. You said “he is an example of the yankee hype machine.”

              I explained that it’s impossible for him to be an example of the Yankee hype machine as other, more objective sources considered him an excellent prospect.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68http://riveraveblues.com/2009/09/assessing-brackmans-season-part-i-16790/#comment-579681 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                This is a great example of the “moving argument”.

                Keep changing the topic of what you’re discussing, so as to seem to evade any actual retorts and rebuttals that you can’t answer.

                AG: Brackman sucks, he’s the new Eric Duncan. So he’s a bust.
                Reply: Duncan didn’t become a full-fledged bust worthy of giving up on until multiple years in the minors. Bad comp, and poor reasoning.
                AG: Yeah, but Brackman was just hyped by the Yankees, he wasn’t really that good. So he’s a bust.
                Reply: No, he’s not just a Yankee Hype Machine product, numerous people not in the org had high praise for him and with good reason.
                AG: Oh, well sometimes people make mistakes in evaluating a prospect, but his numbers suck right now, so he’s a bust.

                See how he’s not actually answering anyone?

                • Salty Buggah

                  Heh, this is the similar to the argument I had with him about Joba’s pitching limits. He’d keep switching back and forth (even agreeing with my original point several times) on the arguments.

                • ClayBuchholzLovesLaptops

                  See how he’s not actually answering anyone?

                  alex gonzalez = Joe Morgan?

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68http://riveraveblues.com/2009/09/assessing-brackmans-season-part-i-16790/#comment-579681 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  Hmmm…

                  I’ve never seen the two of them in the same place at the same time. And Joe Morgan likes wins…

                  I’m convinced.

                • http://z.about.com/d/tvcomedies/1/0/F/-/-/-/judge310_72.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  I didn’t see this comment when I was writing my comment, below. So, yeah, what he said.

                  What say we just stop engaging alex gonzalez in conversation? He takes over threads because everyone responds to him and keeps the conversations going, even though he doesn’t actually have conversations, he just talks over people and doesn’t listen to anything anyone else says.

                • alex gonzalez

                  “salty buggah” i never kept flip flopping, you kept misunderstanding what i was saying and put words in my mouth. my opinion was the same throughout while i tried to find common ground with you.

                • Salty Buggah

                  Ummm, no. I quoted everything you said. I never made up anything. IN fact, you didnt understand what I and several others tried to say. Also, some of arguments that you couldn’t really find something against, you didnt reply to.

                • ClayBuchholzLovesLaptops

                  And AG likes to say “comparing apples to oranges” while JM refuses to answer questions by saying something like “It’s difficult to compare different eras…”

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski

              I know you have a point you want to make in your mind when you start typing, but man, you really need to learn the art of argument and conversation.

            • http://z.about.com/d/tvcomedies/1/0/F/-/-/-/judge310_72.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

              alex gonzalez: “he is an example of the yankee hype machine.”

              Rick in Boston: “Keith Law had him the #3 draft prospect prior to his draft year. Baseball America had him the #2 prospect in the Hawaiian league. Neither of those are part of the ‘Yankee hype machine’.”

              alex gonzalez: “oh well if keith law said it must be true. no one has ever been wrong about hyping a prospect who turns out to be a nobody.”

              You do see why your response to Rick in Boston doesn’t make any sense, right? You said Brackman is a product of the vaunted Yankees hype maching, and Rick responded that Brackman was hyped by third parties not affiliated with the Yankees. He didn’t point to the other reports about Brackman to prove that Brackman is, in fact, awesome, but to show that your point about Brackman being a product of the big bad Yankees hype machine was false. And he was right. I’d bet that you can’t find an example of the Yankees themselves over-hyping Brackman. If you can’t be reasonable and have an honest give-and-take in a conversation, why would anyone engage in a conversation with you?

        • Tom Zig

          He is also recovering from Tommy John surgery and completely relearning how to pitch. Not to mention it is very hard to repeat your delivery when you are 6’10”.

          • Rick in Boston

            I think overlooking the 6’10” part of the equation is the most obvious thing, but possibly the most important. Very few pitchers that tall ever make it to the majors, much less have success at that level. If Brackman was to become Chris Young, then I think we’d all be happy.

            • Lanny

              So Brackman should get a pass for being 6’10?

              • Rick in Boston

                That’s not what I said Lanny GrantSalBo. What I said was that he’s 6’10” and it’s an extremely important part of the situation. Very few pitchers of his height even make it to pro ball, much less with his injury issue and having to re-learn how to pitch.

    • Tom Zig

      From now on, I will interpret all your comments to be sarcasm.

    • Rick in Boston

      Since you’re psychic, can you let me know what the next Powerball numbers are?

      • Mattingly’s Love Child

        YO! That’s my retirement fund. Don’t mess around with that!

    • http://www.richardiurilli.com Richard Iurilli

      My new rules of thumb to be observed while browsing the Internet:
      Never read anything written by someone who doesn’t know what the “shift” key is for.

      • Rick in Boston

        At least he used punctuation.

      • http://www.richardiurilli.com Richard Iurilli

        rule*

        We need an edit button!

        • king of fruitless hypotheticals

          what do brackman, shift keys, the BRS, and replying to AG all have in common?

          OVER-RATED! clap-clap clapclapclap!

  • http://www.richardiurilli.com Richard Iurilli

    Even now, I still can’t believe he walked ten batters and threw ten wild pitches in 3.1 innings. My mind is still blown.

  • AndrewYF

    Dave Cameron has quite a history of embarrassing comments.

    • alex gonzalez

      everyone who has ever said anything about a prospect ever falls into that category. i’m sure everyone who rates a prospect has their fair share.

      • http://www.richardiurilli.com Richard Iurilli

        Honestly, that’s one of the first sane things I’ve ever seen you write. Good job.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68http://riveraveblues.com/2009/09/assessing-brackmans-season-part-i-16790/#comment-579681 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Hmm, that seems like some information you would want to keep in mind to give yourself some perspective, eh?

        Nah, forget that I mentioned it. Keep on truckin, broseph.

      • JobaWockeeZ
    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68http://riveraveblues.com/2009/09/assessing-brackmans-season-part-i-16790/#comment-579681 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Meh, probably because so many of his comments are written down.

      Increases the gaffe-meter quite a bit.

    • Tom Zig

      Yeah there is a comment from him floating about the interwebs being extremely down on Cano when he was a prospect.

      Everyone makes dumb comments from time to time though.

      • Rick in Boston

        I believe Sickels was also down on Cano – he just didn’t get the love.

      • Accent Shallow

        Well, he’s not a scout: he’s a blogger-cum-statistics guru, and an inflexible one at that.

        • Tom Zig

          Well I was just saying that he has made some very bold but very incorrect statements in the past. Something that we are all guilty of. He just happens to be have more name recognition than all of us, therefore his comments get pointed out more.

        • Lanny

          Cameron is another blogger who has never seen any of the people he rates play.

          But yet he rates them and passes judgment anyway

      • ClayBuchholzLovesLaptops

        IIRC, Cano was not considered a top prospect. Didn’t they also let him play some 3B to showcase him? To the Royals, I believe.

        • Rick in Boston

          I looked up Cano a few minutes ago in my ’03 BA Prospect Handbook – they had Cano as the Yanks #8 in prospect a year where the Yankees Farm System was ranked by them as #1 in all of baseball. I’d say he was considered a solid guy who would move off of SS because of the depth at the position the Yanks had then.

  • http://www.richardiurilli.com Richard Iurilli

    Andrew Brackman = Ricky “Wild Thing” Vaughn?

    “Low, and he walks the bases loaded on 12 straight pitches. How can these guys lay off pitches that close?”

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68http://riveraveblues.com/2009/09/assessing-brackmans-season-part-i-16790/#comment-579681 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      No truth to the rumor that Brackman’s pitches are named the Eliminator and the Terminator.

      • jsbrendog

        complete truth to the rumor that he nailed roger dorn’s wife though. but its ok. he didnt know til after

  • http://opensourcecomedy.net/images/melky_box.jpg Drew the Pretty Pretty Princess

    alex gonzalez, you seem to love everything the Sox do.

    What happened with this kid his first year in the minors?

    http://www.baseball-reference......211;001dan

    • alex gonzalez

      are you suggesting he will ever be as good as daniel bard?

      • JGS

        It’s certainly too early to say he won’t be

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68http://riveraveblues.com/2009/09/assessing-brackmans-season-part-i-16790/#comment-579681 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Yes, but how many wins does he have?

          And what era did he play in?

          • JGS

            he played in his own era, making it impossible to compare any player to any other player ever.

      • Salty Buggah

        Possibly better

        • alex gonzalez

          possible, but unlikely

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68http://riveraveblues.com/2009/09/assessing-brackmans-season-part-i-16790/#comment-579681 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Based on… what?

            What calculus do you use to say that Brackman is unlikely to be as good as Bard?

            Explain, please.

            • alex gonzalez

              completely based on feeling. just like your feeling is that he will be better.

              • Salty Buggah

                Feelings. The best support for an argument ever.

                • king of fruitless hypotheticals

                  FEELINGS…nothing more than FEELINGS…

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68http://riveraveblues.com/2009/09/assessing-brackmans-season-part-i-16790/#comment-579681 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                See, that’s the thing:

                I’m not saying that I think he’ll be better than Bard based on my “feelings”.

                I’m saying that it’s ridiculous to say that he’s a bust NOW, based on the EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE accumulated through DECADES AND DECADES of baseball that says that there’s still a very, very good chance that Brackman turns out BETTER than Bard, because he entered the equation with better stuff and a better upside and one year is NEVER EVER enough to write a prospect off, because there are THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of prospects who struggle at first.

                Those aren’t “feelings”. Those are historical accuracies. Prospects struggle and then some get better and some don’t. Giving up on prospects, especially prospects with great upside, after a year of struggling is DUMB. Not because it runs counter to your feelings, because it runs counter to historical accuracy.

                • Salty Buggah

                  And let’s not forget Brackman is a starting prospect, making it harder to have better results than relieving. Bard stunk as a starter but was good as a reliever since its easier and of course, the Sox were patient with him and let him develop instead declaring him a bust.

          • JGS

            based on?

            you clearly didn’t watch Bard very closely two years ago, when he looked every bit as bad (possibly worse actually–he wasn’t striking people out and as far as I know he has a clean health record)

      • http://opensourcecomedy.net/images/melky_box.jpg Drew the Pretty Pretty Princess

        I’m saying young pitchers struggle.
        I doubt A-Bracks will rocket through the system next season as Bard did year 2. I do however expect him to progress. Something you seem to rule out because of a Bard-esque first professional season.

      • Chris

        Of course not. No one can be that good. Even though Brackman’s stats are better than Bard despite the fact that Brackman is still rehabbing from TJ surgery.

    • JGS

      wow. i didn’t realize he was that bad

      those numbers are I dare say…Brackmanian

    • Lanny

      They didnt draft and sign Brackman where they did to become a set up man.

  • Tank Foster

    He’s Eppy Calvin LaLouche, only he’ll never make it to The Show.

  • Rick in Boston

    I think Mike’s used this reference before, but at least Brackman isn’t Jason Neighborgall, who hasn’t pitched since 2007 – his career BB/9: 27.2.

    • Mattingly’s Love Child

      Amen to that!

    • JGS

      yikes. and that’s in 42 innings too. I saw that number and was expecting somewhere around 3 or 4

  • TheLastClown

    For some of the more formal logicians among us:

    When, in his spurious 2005 article, Dave Cameron makes an unsupported parallel between Papelbon & Clint Nageotte, then paints a prospective trade for Papelbon in a negative light, saying:

    “Would you want to trade Reed for another Clint Nageotte?”

    Is this argumentum ad hominem?

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68http://riveraveblues.com/2009/09/assessing-brackmans-season-part-i-16790/#comment-579681 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Meh, it’s more of a red herring or a Fallacy of the Four Terms than a straight ad hom.

      An ad hom would have said that Papelbon was going to suck because the Red Sox exec who endorsed his drafting also endorsed the Reed-Nageotte trade. Ad homm attacks are about undermining the argument by attacking the credibility of the speaker, generally by bringing up unrelated issues.

  • Lanny

    Time to admit Brackmans a bust. This will probably be the last time that Cashman gives an injury project a major league deal. He’ll be keeping a real player off the 40 man for yrs.

    • jsbrendog

      thanks bo

    • Tom Zig

      Dude you’re mad late to the party. We had that argument already.

      • Lanny

        So others cant make it and continue conversation?

        Its a little hard finding coherent thought inside a fews unfunny and lame movie quotes. Take a bow, Brend.

        • king of fruitless hypotheticals

          no it isnt.

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