Finding success in an Andy Pettitte slider
ByAs Andy Pettitte ran through the Orioles’ line up on Monday with the threat of a perfect game hanging over Camden Yards, he put the perfect exclamation point on his post-All Star Break run. Since taking a few days off for the break, Pettitte has been as close to unbeatable as he ever has been.
He’s 4-1 since the break, and the Yanks are 7-2 in games Pettitte starts. His impressive down the line though are even more impressive. In 59.2 innings spanning 9 starts, Pettitte has an ERA of 2.56. He has allowed 45 hits and has walked just 15 while striking out 62, better than one batter an inning. Opponents are hitting .210/.260/.294 off of Andy, and he has allowed just three home runs after allowing 15 bombs during the first half of the season.
For many Yankee fans, what Pettitte has done this year reminds them of what Mike Mussina did last year. Pettitte is an old veteran who can’t blow hitters away, and he has had to change his style of pitching. By changing speeds and weaning himself off of his fastball, Pettitte has been a finesse pitcher who could keep going for years. Or so the narrative goes.
There is, of course, only one little problem with this story: It’s not true. Let’s start with Mike Mussina. While we have limited pitch f/x data for Mussina from 2007, we see that he threw around 50 percent fastballs and 50 percent breaking pitches. His fastball had an average velocity of around 88.5, and it was rated by Fangraphs as -15 runs above average. In 2008, Mussina changed his approach. He threw fastballs around 33 percent of the time and threw change-ups and breaking pitches that ranged from around 73 miles per hour to 80. He became a completely different pitcher.
Andy Pettitte hasn’t achieved the same metamorphosis. In 2008, Pettitte threw fastballs 45.6 percent of the time; in 2009, Pettitte has thrown fastballs 44 percent of the time. The velocity on those pitches clocks in at around 89 mph both years, and in fact, during Monday’s gem, Pettitte never reached higher than 88.2 mph on the gun.
Velocity, though, isn’t everything, and the secret to Pettitte’s success this year isn’t his speed or pitching approach. It is his ability to throw his slider and get more cutting action on his cutter. As 2008 drew to a close, Pettitte was a mess. He admitted that his arm hurt and that he could not pitch effectively. He went out there every five days because the other options were, frankly, awful. Sidney Ponson, as we like to forget, started 15 games for the 2008 Yankees.
This year, Pettitte has been the model of health. In fact, his arm feels so good that he sounds as though he won’t retire at the end of this season. With a healthy arm in tow, he is now throwing sliders 18.2 percent of the time, up from 5.3 percent in 2008. By mixing and matching his slider and fastball with his cutter ? ranked 11.2 runs above average by Fangraphs ? Pettitte has rediscovered his arsenal. He didn’t need to reinvent himself; he just had to feel and be healthy.
Going forward, this reality raises a few uncomfortable questions. Will Pettitte be able to maintain this success as the velocity on his pitches drops? What happens if and when his shoulder or elbow flare up again and that slider and cutter become unavailable? Pettitte turned 37 nearly three months ago, and he’s not getting any younger. As long as he’s healthy, he could be an effective pitcher for a few more years, and as Pettitte and the Yanks head for another winter contract, I just hope his arm holds up.
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What happens if any key player on our team gets injured and it affects the team?
I guess we’ll have to cross that path when we get to it…
No other way do deal with the unforeseen future beyond that.
All we can do is try to have decent depth, and we’ve done a fairly good job of that thanks to some of our in-season pickups (Hinske, Hairston, Gaudin, etc.).
I think we can lose a key player and still be competitive, because currently, at full strength, we’re dominant.
Absolutely agree.
Losing some key players would obviously hurt a lot more than others though…
But part of our success this year has been health. And, for the most part, that’s been a big part of our “failures” in the past. The past few years a lot of players have been getting hurt.
Most of my friends are Red Sox fans (hence why I seem upset a lot) so I’m constantly arguing with them until I’m blue in the face. I’ve always stood by that if we were healthy all year we would dominate…and that’s exactly what we’re doing (albeit with a few new key additions and better pitching)…but still.
But part of our success this year has been health. And, for the most part, that’s been a big part of our “failures” in the past. The past few years a lot of players have been getting hurt.
Yes.
Well, that, and not having a good enough pitching staff in the first place, but, yes. Injuries sucked in the past. We’ve gotten younger, so we’re slightly less injury prone, but we have been fortunate this year that none of our fogies had any nicks or scratches.
I would give him a 1 year deal. He seems happy to go year by year. I also think that Andy’s change up has been pretty good recently.
No to a deal next year. We should sign Lackey to replace him. Find someone else as well to keep Joba and Hughes in the pen, but also prevent someone like Mitre from pitching. Mitre should have been traded by now.
Find someone else as well to keep Joba and Hughes in the pen,
credibility = nonexistent
Logic presented here = shot down?
The post had about as much necessity as putting “The Jew” in your online handle…lol
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, JEWS!
go ahead and provide a rational argument based on factual analysis that says pitchers with the stuff of joba and hughes should be in the bullpen.
a starter >>>>>> a reliever
ESPECIALLY starters with the upside potential of Phil hughes and Joba Chamberlain. They have potential and stuff to be number 1 and 2 in any rotation in baseball.
Now, IF they are given that chance and od not live up to it, as MANY players do not or canot, then fine, put them back in the bullpen. but they aren’t even 25 yet!! let alone 24.
so by advocating wasting the top tow yougn talents on the yankees roster your credibility is shot. and it is even further shot by your lack of knowledge about what ptiches andy pettitte throws or apparently how to read a graph.
Petite doesn’t throw a slider. He only throws a cutter. Can we do some research next time?
so by advocating wasting the top tow yougn talents on the yankees roster your credibility is shot. and it is even further shot by your lack of knowledge about what ptiches andy pettitte throws or apparently how to read a graph.
Yes, but, JSB, those things (his advocacy of Joba or Hughes to the pen and his belief that Andy doesn’t throw a cutter) aren’t really related at all, and yet you’re using each of them to attack the veracity of his opposing point, you’ve forced me to say:
jsbrendog: 1
Ad hominem red herring: 0
meh whatever. i feel they are related.
jsbrendog: 1
Thoughtful responses to logical arguments: 0
Heh.
why does eveyrone just jump on everything i say!1!!1!
i’m being singled out!1!!1
he has not offered an argument as to why they should be in the pen. I offered mine while asking for his. this suggests lack of research on why he thinks joba and hughes should be in the pen. at least throw out a WAR or some type of analysis.
then, his attack on ben for not doing any research when it is obvious he has and this guy (a possible ml scout if he weren’t so anti no talent youngsters) has not, only furthers my inference of this lack of research and thereofre making uninformed comments and having similar uninformed opinions.
maybe i’m stretching but to me i see the relation.
You’re fighting a losing battle, my friend. If you learn anything from me at all…even if you don’t want to…it’s…you can’t win against the machine.
I no machine…I just RAB…
How about the notion that Mitre has trade value? Yikes.
Pujols. They should trade him for Pujols!
I believe he is just baiting you guys.
I think this is the first time I’ve seen someone advocate BOTH joba and hughes stay in the pen. Wow.
Some people just will do anything to become famous…
I think this is the first time I’ve seen someone advocate BOTH joba and hughes stay in the pen. Wow.
Maybe he’s touchtoneterriost turned into Joba or Hughes to the pen turned into Jim the Jew.
Just a hunch (totally unconfirmed and unsubstantiated). Bad pennies keep turning up…
Brad Pennies?
Brad Pennies?
There is probably a shitty rock band somewhere in Florida named The Brad Pennies. Would have been one in Boston too, had he not made an epic stinkbomb of his career there and flamed out.
They are opening this weekend in Daytona for The Smoltzes.
the smoltzy jalopies
I got tickets.
I just hope he keeps pitching this well for another 2 months considering AJ has been so inconsistent, coupled with the innings limit for Joba.
Petite doesn’t throw a slider. He only throws a cutter. Can we do some research next time?
Are you serious? Have you ever watched the Yankees or Andy Pettitte pitch? He definitely has a slider. It’s a variation of his cutter, but it moves differently. He also calls it a different pitch, and opposing batters see it differently as well.
Yes I watch them all the time. He only has one pitch with movement, his cutter. I seem him throw a cutter and four seam fastball. Sometimes he throws a curve or slider, but he throws it with the frequency of AJ and his changeup.
http://www.fangraphs.com/pitch.....position=P
What does all that mean?
it means he throws a slider.
I guess I’ll take your word for it. Just watching him it doesn’t seem like it. Michael Kay and the rest of the booth are always calling them cutters.
Ben, can you please delete this entire post? Turns out Kay says its a cutter. kthxbai
I guess I’ll take your word for it.
Wes Mantooth: That’s completely uncalled for, Burgundy. You know those rating systems are flawed. They don’t take into account… houses that have more than two television sets, and other things of that nature.
Ron Burgundy: I guess I have to take you at your word… Number Two.
He does throw a slider, but Fangraphs (I believe the data is straight from gameday) has a ton of his pitches misclassified.
Of you look at the details of the pitches, it appears he throws a 4-seamer, 2-seamer, curveball, changeup, and then a cut fastball/slider which he varies the speed and break on. I think it’s very difficult to distinguish the two because they’re basically variations on the same pitch.
This conversation is cracking me up.
Never in my life have I ever wished DBHOF was around more than I do right now to set you straight, Jim.
it means you’re wrong and he throws a slider 18.2% of the time in 2009
That says he does. This says he throws one 0.1% of the time in 2009.
AHHH BUT THEYRE ON THE SAME PAGE
what gives??
::head explodes::
It means your wrong and he throws it 0% of the time 100% of the time. I think I have some idea of what he throws. I could be a scout at the big league levels, but I don’t have time to watch kids who have no talent like Ian Kennedy and Edwar Ramirez. Phil Coke throws a slider but he lets up a home run in like every appearance. Sliders don’t mean anything in pitching. You need other pitches in addition. I don’t have time to teach what you have to do.
Yes. This comment is f*cking golden.
This comment needs to go into the Oaktag HOF.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah….
hold on…i have to breathe…
aaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
oaktag.
to summarize:
-i know what he throws because I see it with my own eyes
- i could be a scout because i’m so super awesome and my eyes see that
-My excuse for why I am not is because my eyes don’t have time to see for themselves ian kennedy and edwar ramirez
-phil coke throws a slider because my eyes say so. as they also say he gives up a hr every appearance
-stats are dumb because he couldn’t have given up only 10 in over 50 innings pitched because I see it with my own eyes everytime
-sliders don’t mean anything in pitching (i forgot what we were talking about so I throw this in there)
-i don’t have time to teach you how to ignore statistics and see things with your own eyes
So much wrong with this. So wonderfully awful.
(1) 0% of the time 100% of the time. Say what?
(2) “I could be a scout at the big league levels”. Of course you could! You were trained in the Michael Kay School of Pitch Identification!
(3) “I don’t have time to watch kids who have no talent like Ian Kennedy and Edwar Ramirez.” And you identified their lack of talent by not watching them!
(4) “Phil Coke throws a slider but he lets up a home run in like every appearance.” Well. completely irrelevant but ok.
(5) “Sliders don’t mean anything in pitching. ” Patently false!
(6) “You need other pitches in addition.” I bet Kabak had no idea…Someone tell him!
(7) “I don’t have time to teach what you have to do.” Presumably because youre scouting big-leaguers and not scouting talentless hacks.
I’ve learned a lot today.
Alright. Alright. Let’s play nice. We’ve had enough laughs at Jim the Jew’s expense. Time to move on.
[sighs]
fiiiiine.
Wait, one more:
It means your wrong and he throws it 0% of the time 100% of the time.
It’s called Sex Panther. By Odeon. It’s illegal in nine countries.
60% of the time……
it works….
everytime.
Yup. It’s made with real bits of panther… so you know it’s good.
Joba Chamberlain’s issues have been found. The slider is useless.
it’s quite pungent. stings the nostrils..
i’m not gonna lite to you tjsc…that smells like pure gasoline…
Quick Poll:
Who would you rather hang out and drink with?
Makavelli or Jim “The Jew”…
his yarmulke must be too tight…
his yarmulke might be too tight..
LOL +1
Thanks for the Jew joke, that was really nice.
according to us news and world reports there has been a slight uptick in jew on jew crime. more at 11.
Ya come on Ben. It’s not like you watch the games or use p/x to see what he throws or anything like that.
Pettite has far out-performed expectations for the season. Going in, he was the 5th starter, he’s pitched like a solid 3 and more recently like a 2. That all being said, his history of arm soreness definitely does cause one to pause looking forward. I’d gladly have him back for another year (especially with Wang being such a huge question mark and Hughes being on an innings count), but I wouldn’t want to commit anything more than that. If Andy starts thinking he’s the next Jamie Moyer and deserves 2 years (which I know Moyer didn’t “deserve” either), well I think you have to let him go.
This post proves how remarkable Moose’s 2008 season was.
The one thing I’ve truly missed on the Yankees this year is the fact that they don’t have Mussina pitching, since I always enjoyed the Moose’s pitching style (particularly last year.
Will Pettitte be able to maintain this success as the velocity on his pitches drops?
Well, in 2004 when he was pitching with a torn tendon, he was topping out around 85mph near the end of the season and was still effective. 112 ERA plus on the year, 1.23 WHIP. I believe the Fangraphs stats are showing this indirectly, registering him as throwing far more 85mph sliders that year and the following year (when he was recovering from the surgery) than he has any other years.
What happens if and when his shoulder or elbow flare up again and that slider and cutter become unavailable?
The same thing that happens if any other pitcher has arm issues? Either a DL stint or we deal with a bad stretch like in 2008. While being 37 increases the chances of an arm injury, simply being a pitcher has far, far more of an impact on injury odds than age does. If you look back at the Yankees staff over the years, the older pitchers have generally held up better than the younger ones.
Remember though that in 2004 he was pitching in the NL Central and not the AL East. I’ll allow for the fact that Pettitte, at 32, could succeed in the NL while pitching hurt. Can he do the same at 38 in the AL? That’s my one concern with Pettitte going forward — which is a concern with any pitcher going forward really.
It’s funny, I definitely don’t have the time to study this or anything, but it seems like the good pitchers who are still pitching effectively at 38-39, seem to be capable of pitching into their early 40s. I don’t remember hearing of a lot of good pitchers at this stage in their careers having major injuries that ended their career or hastened their departure. Hell even Kenny Rogers was getting guys out at 41! Maybe there is something to be said for the health of the guys still pitching effectively in their late 30s?
Hell even Kenny Rogers was getting guys out at 41!
and when he couldnt anymore he did what any old guy would do. he cheated to show those young’uns a thing or two
/black substance under the cap’d
Rick Vaughn: [Seeing Harris take off his shirt, revealing white suff on his chest] What’s that shit on your chest?
Eddie Harris: [Looking at his chest] Crisco.
Eddie Harris: [wiping it across his head]
Eddie Harris: Bardol.
Eddie Harris: [wiping it along his waist line]
Eddie Harris: Vagisil. Any one of them will give you another two to three inches drop on your curve ball. Of course if the umps are watching me real close I’ll rub a little jalapeo up my nose, get it runnin’, and if I need to load the ball up I just…
Eddie Harris: [wipes his nose]
Eddie Harris: …wipe my nose.
Rick Vaughn: You put snot on the ball?
Eddie Harris: I haven’t got an arm like you, kid. I have to put anything on it I can find. Someday you will too.
And think of this:
His prior period of injuries may have been related to his use of HgH at the time, which the medical world generally believes (please correct me if I’m wrong) has a harmful effect on the bodies of normal, healthy adults who do not need HgH therapy. That torn tendon may have been a byproduct of the deleterious effects of his HgH regimen.
Now that he’s off the sauce (we assume) and his body is returning to it’s normal hormonal balance (we hope), he may actually be generally healthier going forward.
Just a thought.
His prior period of injuries may have been related to his use of HgH at the time, which the medical world generally believes (please correct me if I’m wrong) has a harmful effect on the bodies of normal, healthy adults who do not need HgH therapy. That torn tendon may have been a byproduct of the deleterious effects of his HgH regimen.
Right on the HGH = bad thing, but, I don’t know if I’d involve HGH at all here.
However, for some reason there are people who accept the “has a harmful effect on the bodies of normal, healthy adults” part of your statement but ignore the “who do not need HgH therapy” part of it. Instead, they choose to believe HGH will help any random injury.
While I’m not sold on the “I only injected once, err, twice” part of his story, the “I used it to recover from injuries” part held up well and seems rather likely.
There are people that still want to believe in HGH that have an argument along these lines. The HGH studies did not specifically isolate people recovering from injuries, therefore, in those cases the HGH acts completely differently and helps you instead of hurting you.
The tendon also was torn on an awkward check swing, and AL pitchers do have a bad track record batting. (See Wang and Colon in 2008 for recent examples). I really wouldn’t read too much into that one.
The 2002 (I think) elbow issue is the one I’d question if I was going to raise doubts on injuries…
which is a concern with any pitcher going forward really.
That’s the key to remember. Pitching is brutal on your arm. Some people can do it for a career without problems, others break down repeatedly. If you’re still pitching in your late 30′s, your body is better suited to pitching than the vast majority of players are.
In the context of 37 year old pitchers, Pettitte’s had a light injury history. He’s an above average pitcher and shown some ability to pitch through injuries (effectively in 2004, not so much in 2008). You really can’t complain too much. CC is really the only starting pitcher on the team I’d worry about less health wise.
Your numbers for Pettitte are wrong in your post. 44% sounded ridiculously low so I looked it up. Pettitte has thrown 57% fastballs this year, and threw 53% last year.
The pitch f/x numbers say otherwise. Gotta source for me? I’m willing to admit that I’m wrong, but some sites combine numbers for the fastball and the cutter while pitch f/x splits them.
Fangraphs has him throwing 57% FB, 20% Cutters, 14% Curves, 10% Change ups.. which sounds about right.
http://www.fangraphs.com/stats.....position=P
If depends on where you look.
Fangraphs says 44%:
http://www.fangraphs.com/pitch.....position=P
The other fangraphs says 57%:
http://www.fangraphs.com/stats.....#pitchtype
I find the pitch f/x sections on Fangraphs more reliable than their own classification system is.
Looking at the movement charts, neither seems very reliable. When you look at the charts, you can see the clear groups of what should be the pitch types, but that doesn’t match with how they’re classified by fangraphs.
Yeah those are two fastball types 4 and two seam.
And the gameday cameras were reading slow for both games.
According to what?
It seemed to have every pitcher’s top velocity down a mph, not by a lot.
Actually I just checked it, it was just the first game and the velocity was off by a couple mph, it had Mo throwing 87 and Bruney topping out at 91. I wasn’t following the game day yesterday I guess they fixed it. Those velocities looked about right.
Right. I get that. You’re saying gameday underestimated the mph. According to what – your internal impression of how fast the ball was? the YES network radar gun? the stadium radar gun?
When was the last time Bruney topped out at 92, and Mo at 88? It also had Guthrie sitting noticeably below his average.
When multiple pitcher’s velocities are off, something has gone awry.
Could be coincidental. Lower velocity could also be why Bruney got smacked around a bit. Well that and throwing belt high fastballs.
According to what –
My eyes
Gameday does have this problem from time to time. They’re supposed to calibrate the cameras before every game, but sometimes it get’s screwed up. It’s why you need to do some normalization of release point and velocity when analyzing the data. It’s much better now than it was the first year, but still can have issues.
This type of article is why I love this blog. Once again, thanks a lot for the great analysis.
1+1, same contract as this year plus a $1mm buyout on year two.
He can’t make the innings, he ends the year cheaper than this year buyout included.
Would he come back for this deal?
The Hendricks brothers will say he’s earned a raise, the team will likely agree.
I see a 1+1, but not for 6.5M + 5.5M in incentives. More like 8M + 4M in incentives. JMHO.
Yeah. I think that’s a pretty accurate assumption on a starting negotiation, given this season.
I’m also going to guess more like a $2-$3m buyout instead of $1m. The point of a buyout is so that the team still considers the option if he regresses. We know what the team thought Pettitte was worth after a weak 2008, so I’d expect a 2010 option minus the buyout value to fall right around the contract he was given this year.
Adjust values down if Pettitte blabs to the press “It’s Yankees or retirement for me.” Adjust upwards if he tells the press “I want to return to the Yankees, but this is a business and I’ll play wherever makes the most sense.”
Babe Ruth cursed the red sox when they traded him. Jackie Robinson retired rather than play for the rival Giants. The age of loyalty is a memory.
I love this site but I can’t understand why there’s a joba post every other day about how crappy/good he is. when he actually hasn’t done SQUAT. nothing. except headlines.
Andy has been a trooper for years and his only real problem is his humble nature in the face of diva phenoms and egomaniac free agents. Of course he struggles sometimes, but he is a champion, a grinder and a tried and true Yankee.
I hope they throw him a boat load of cash and sign him for two years with a third year option. You shouldn’t punish his humble competitive nature. Andy Pettitte is the man.
I love this site but I can’t understand why there’s a joba post every other day about how crappy/good he is. when he actually hasn’t done SQUAT. nothing. except headlines.
I don’t mean to be so defensive, but I have to ask you what Joba has to do with Andy Pettitte. We haven’t written about Joba since the day after he last pitched, and we write about Joba as much as we write about every other Yankee. Considering our aggressive publishing schedule, some topics — the newsworthy ones — get more attention than others. That’s the nature of the best. No one — not a single one of us — has written about how crappy and/or good Joba is lately at all.
i wasn’t trying to get personal or anything, im just tired of hearing about joba. I have a “shut up and pitch” attitude.
Right. And I’m just asking what Joba has to do with a post on Andy Pettitte. I didn’t mention Joba at all in either this post or the comments until you brought it up. Maybe it was just an unrelated rant?
its the comparison of someone who goes about their business, giving it %110 percent, but doesnt get the credit he deserves. in my opinion.
whereas the latter gets too much undeserved attention.
possibly an unrelated rant.
A) Yeah, I can’t imagine why it might be more interesting to discuss a guy we hope will develop into a rotation staple for the next 10 years than a guy who, until recently, was a solid bet to retire after this season.
B) There are a lot of things about Joba that are easy to get casual fans riled up about, so the media tends to go right to that when they need a story. Manufactured controversy gets more eyeballs than “Hey, Pettitte is still pretty good”
C) You seem like you’re mad at Joba, as though he’s walking around after Andy’s starts asking for people to write about him instead. The kid IS just shutting up and pitching. What are you even pissed about?
A) I think its interesting that Joba Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy, David Robertson were all drafted that year (along with evan longoria, Tim Lincecum & Clayton Kershaw). Some major contributors. So there are alot of angles to the Joba story. You guys do a great job cover the minors/draft/amateur signings.
B) In the end you are only as good as your record. 2009 – 8-4, 4.38 record. a superstar he is not.
C) I’m not pissed at him. I have the shirt. I went to his first start and I want him to do well. But if he is made of glass then the AL east will devour him. I want the kid gloves taken off so he can earn his spot one way or another. Resumes don’t win games.
wait….what?
the age of loyalty?
you mean the age when there was no free agency and owners paid players whatever they damn well pleased? and if a team didn’t want you anymore they traded you away for something they did want?
I hope they throw him a boat load of cash and sign him for two years with a third year option. You shouldn’t punish his humble competitive nature. Andy Pettitte is the man.
That’s no way to run a business or a baseball team. Paying a player for what he has done ensures that you tie up money in a player that can’t or won’t deliver to the extent the money demands. Loyalty went out the window long before free agency.
yeah who’s in charge here, drayton mcclane?
http://www.hiyoooo.com/
Loyalty went out the window long before free agency.
I’m going to guess the last time loyalty was much of a business concern in baseball was the day before the Reserve Clause was created.
I don’t think they need to throw him a boatload of cash or a 2+1 contract to keep him around. I can accept your loyalty to him, but I don’t think they need to overpay.
Babe Ruth cursed the red sox when they traded him.
I don’t believe he literally cursed them, there was a curse because they traded him, which was foolish.
I hope they throw him a boat load of cash and sign him for two years with a third year option. You shouldn’t punish his humble competitive nature.
I don’t, I hope they give him a sensible contract that doesn’t handcuff the team. Negotiating with a player for a decent price isn’t punishing him, its doing their job as a front office.
he is a champion, a grinder and a tried and true Yankee.
And a member of the 4 Rings Club (T)(R)(C)!!11!!!1one!
you are aware that he played in Houston for a few years already, right?
are you saying you consider him an astro?
the yanks didn’t resign him for fear of elbow trouble (and he missed time because of it). I believe he helped get them (astros) to their first world series appearance ever. and I also believe he was a cy young candidate that year.
the age of loyalty is a memory
so is the reserve clause
I consider Pettitte a Yankee of course, but the notion that he would curse the franchise for not resigning him when he didn’t do that the last time they didn’t resign him is silly.
And I feel like AL pitchers going to the NL and becoming Cy Young candidates is a running theme
the yanks didn’t resign him for fear of elbow trouble (and he missed time because of it).
Anal nitpicking here…
The Yankees had been concerned about Pettitte’s elbow ligament and where afraid he’d eventually need Tommy John surgery. What they saw in the MRIs as “signs that his ligament was wearing out” turned out to just be “Pettitte’s ligament naturally”. His ligament has looked the same in MRIs all these years, so it’s no longer a concern.
His injury in Houston was to the tendon and was completely unrelated to any concerns the Yankees had.
I hate to take sides with Fangraphs over pitch f/x, but Molina and Pettitte have both mentioned the cutter, not the slider, as his current out pitch. I’m pretty sure Fangraphs is right about what Andy is throwing here.
Also, do I need to put “the Jew” at the end of my name now, or is it not required?
Actually, for we Jews, I’m going to change the NY symbol in the new comment indicator to a yellow star.
/just kidding.
::not sure how to respond to this::
A Jew said it, so it is fair game.
yeah i guess that was the non jewish half of me respoding, heh
I’d probably ignore it. My point was that it’s quite strange to see someone else referring to themselves as XYZ the Jew.
Yup. Combine that with the fact that he was rude and more than a little uninformed, and I just wanted him to go away.
i enjoyed both of these ocmments and agree with them as well
Yup. Combine that with the fact that he was rude and more than a little uninformed, and I just wanted him to go away.
I have no choice but to assume based on Jim the Jew’s behavior that all Jews are rude and ill-informed.
Sincerely,
Rush Limbaugh
Especially since XYZ really isn’t really a very good name. There’s not even a vowel!
That could be just terminology. It’s clear to me that he has two different pitches with lateral movement. One is a slower version with more break, the slider, and the other is the fastball-like cutter. I noticed it more than ever in his start before the last one. He was dropping the slider over the outside corner to righties, and running the cutter inside.
Cool. One thing that I think this does show us is that many of these pitch recognition systems still have flaws, and have trouble differentiating some pitches.
I think the pitchers also have difficulty distinguishing between a cut fastball, a slider and a curveball. They’re all just variations on the same pitch and it’s pretty irrelevant what the pitcher calls it. At best, there is a fuzzy line distinguishing these pitches, but often there is not boundary.
The thing is, it kinda doesn’t matter what a pitch is…what matters is the movement and the speed relative to the fastball. But we need a shorthand for “pitches that are 6 MPH slower than the 4-seam, with x vertical break and y horizontal break” vs “pitches that are 2 mph slower than the 4 seam with z vertical break and w horizontal break” so we go with “cutter”, “slider”, etc.
Look at Contreras…does it matter if it’s a “forkball” or a “changeup”? It looks like a 4-seamer but dies on the way to the plate…we just need to decide on something to call it so we can talk about it.
I dont understand why every pitcher does not throw achangeup, has to be the best pitch in baseball. see Santana and Pedro Martinez. Why doesn’t Joba learn to throw that pitch more consistenly?
Right now you alsmot think Andy has to start game 2 the way Burnett has looked lately. There is no reason for this guy to be so damn mediocre. I said in the prior post and I will say it again you cannot depend on 5 home runs to be an edwin jackson and or jon lester and or jon lackey or any #2 starter who does not implode. Not only would he start game 2 but also game 6 and or game 5 depending on the days. Right now everyone is happy because the Yankees are bailing him out but soon enough that wont be the case.
I just dont get why he cannot throw more consistent, not like he is a young kid. I am just nout sure if I trust AJ in a big game against a more consistent #2 pitcher. The problem is if they were to play Boston you cannot start him in Fenway because he gets shelled there.
Give him a 1 year contract. Worst comes to worst, next year you have a Kennedy as a 6th starter and maybe even a healed Wang.
He hit 90 in Monday’s gem.
At least that’s what the top right box said courtesy of the YES network.
[...] been kind to Joba, many of us are still looking forward to his potential. This is why, to answer a commenter, why he gets so much attention. Poor results don’t take away from his potential as a [...]