Offensive onslaught bails out A.J. as Yankees roll

Who said everything that happens in baseball is a coincidence? Not everything is, but some things are. Nick Swisher clearly has the same approach at home as he does on the road (his home OBP is .373 despite a .200 BA at home) but the hits just aren’t falling for him (.254 BABIP at home). So that either means when he does make contact, the ball is going right at someone (coincidence, since the batter generally has very little control over where the ball goes after it hits his bat) OR he’s not hitting the ball very hard at home, which would not be coincidence. However, I don’t have the home/road batted ball numbers in front of me, so I can’t tell. The .254 BABIP, however, points to bad luck/coincidence.

It very well COULD be a coincidence. And I can admit that. And I even said that above. But it also COULD be something like what I said. Everybody is quick to shoot down everything I say all the time, which is fine. But I’m at least saying “sure, it could be a coincidence”…but the odds that everything that I’ve said over the past season has ALL just been one giant big coincidence is unlikely, that’s all.

But you all could be right. And I wasn’t saying that this DEFINITELY was the case…I was just trying to come up with a possibility…and everybody, per usual, was quick to shoot it down for whatever reason.

and everybody, per usual, was quick to shoot it down for whatever reason.

Because you have absolutely no idea what’s going on inside Nick Swisher’s head when he steps up to the plate at Yankee Stadium. If anyone said that, literally anyone, the response from Tommie, Ben, and I would probably be the same.

“and everybody, per usual, was quick to shoot it down for whatever reason.”

Because you keep making causal statements, and we keep telling you that correlation =/= causation. I’ve even linked to the cartoon! So has TSJC!

Yes, and I could see if I was INSISTING on it being the case…or adament about my theories. I wasn’t and never really are. I offered a possibility that’s all. I never demanded anybody’s approval or claimed I was right. I’m just saying…

It very well could be a coincidence. We don’t know??? BUT, I also could be right. You never know. I’m not 100% wrong because like you said, there is no way for you, either, to know what’s going on in his head. So the possibility still lingers. Unlikely? Maybe. Possible? Absolutely.

“So basically what everybody on this site is saying is…
Baseball =/= Medical Science
BUT!
Baseball = Coincidence”

Makavelli: 1
Strawman: 0

By the way, my suggestion of Swisher’s poor home field performance was due to something psychological…which would actually make it relating to “medical science” after-all. But whatever. It’s over-with. I was just making conversation, like I said.

Sure, contracting lung cancer from smoking COULD be coincidence but that’s highly doubtful because we’ve seen over the years that smoking DOES cause lung cancer. You, or I, have no way of knowing if Nick Swisher has “something in his head” that’s preventing him from hitting home runs. As I mentioned above, his approach seems to be the same at home as it is on the road, but the hits just aren’t falling. It’s either result of some bad luck (coincidence) or not hitting the ball very hard (I don’t have the data aside from BABIP so I’m not quite sure).

A smoker getting lung cancer in the course of his or her life is most likely not the result of a coincidence. The results of a batted ball in baseball can be the result of coincidence. Let’s take Eric Bruntlett’s unassisted triple play. That was incredible coincidence. Francoeur smoked that ball, but because of coincidence, Bruntlett happened to be in position to catch the ball. Now, let’s take Derek Jeter’s first hit last night. That thing was a weak ground ball that happened to chop high enough for Jeter to reach first base. Most of the time, the line drive will be a hit and the chopper will be an out. These examples reversed themselves in a bit of coincidence.

As I stated above. I wasn’t insisting that it was definitely the reason Swisher wasn’t performing as well at home. I offered a possibility WITH the understanding and possibility of it being a coincidence. People were quick to jump on it so I just replied like I always due haha…no harm done.

Either way, nobody knows and we won’t find out. I was just making conversation. Looks like it worked lol

TSJC then said I was wrong and that everything in baseball is a coincidence.

Makavelli: 2
Strawman: 0

I was just making conversation. Looks like it worked lol

You keep doing that, despite the fact that nobody has asked you to and people tend to get annoyed when you “make conversation” because your method of “making conversation” is virtually indistinguishable from “making unsubstantiated, counterintellectual, inflammatory statements designed to draw vitriolic responses from those people who generally believe in rationality and evenhandedness”.

I offered a possibility WITH the understanding and possibility of it being a coincidence.

You did, which is why you were responded to fairly and without malice.

People were quick to jump on it so I just replied like I always due haha…no harm done.

The problem, Makavelli, is, as always, you take it too far. People didn’t jump on you for your first response, because it was open ended and genuinely speculative and evenhanded. People jumped on you for your followup of “So basically what everybody on this site is saying is… Baseball = Coincidence”. Stop putting words in other people’s mouths and arguing against strawman positions of their points, and people won’t always “jump on you”.

Ohhh…so I need people like you to approve my decisions to do something from now on??

You guys need to lighten up. I write something. You all jump all over it while salivating from the mouth…I explain how it’s not a big deal and I was just making a relevant suggestion to something that was talked about. Then you bring up irrelevant nonsense about how my statements are “counterintellectual” or whatever all because you don’t agree with them.

Do you do this everywhere you go? Disagree with people on things that there is no answer to…then get upset when the other person understands this?

Calm down, dude. You get so riled up some times. It’s a baseball message board.

well at least now he is getting people to answer his posts and not starting arguments because no one responded to his wonderful golden posts…

I’m not trying to be a bad guy here…I made a suggestion…people rightfully disagreed with it. I defended myself and what I said. I don’t see how that’s so out of the ordinary on this board…

I understand the disagreement. Everybody has a right to their opinion…except apparently me. lol

You guys need to lighten up. I write something. You all jump all over it while salivating from the mouth…I explain how it’s not a big deal and I was just making a relevant suggestion to something that was talked about. Then you bring up irrelevant nonsense about how my statements are “counterintellectual” or whatever all because you don’t agree with them.

Again, and slower:

The main problem is not that you bring up points or start conversation.

The main problem is that you repeatedly put words in other people’s mouths by creating strawman positions of their arguments. Nobody likes having their words twisted and misappropriated into something other than what they said.

That’s why people jump on you, Makavelli. Because you say things that are not true. And then you build narratives on top of those things you have said that are not true, and when people get annoyed by it, you say “Oh, I’m just making conversation, relax.”

That’s fucking annoying and you know it.

People were jumping on me and getting angry about what I had to say before I “put words in other peoples mouths.” I understand what you’re saying…but try to understand what I’m saying. I made a suggestion that had no answer to it. People disagreed (perhaps* just for the sake of disagreeing with me). I defended my argument. Other people chimed in. Then all hell broke loose apparently.

My point being. I’m not setting traps or sitting with a fishing pole and a lure trying to bait people into arguing with me about nonsense. But it apparently seems as though this is what people think I’m doing.

“Do you do this everywhere you go?”

I shudder to think how you;’d answer this question if you asked it of yourself. Do you go around misstating other people’s opinions and, as you said recently about yourself, ‘playing the villain’ because you think that’s what people want?

Actually, think about that for a second. You stated that sometimes when you comment here you do so with the intent to be irritating. Do you not see why you’ve burned through the goodwill of most regular commenters here? Before you were banned as Axl, plenty of people gave you chances and tried to get you into conversations in which you weren’t completely insane, but you eventually refused and got yourself banned. And now that you’re back as Makavelli people have been pretty open to listening to you again, but you’ve stated yourself that sometimes you’re here to irritate people (and you’ve been successful at it), and when people do engage you you start crying about how people disagree with you and misrepresenting their arguments.

So, whatever. Do your thing. Just don’t be surprised or play the martyr about how you’re treated here, people only have so much patience for your unique brand of conversation. I, for one, have no more patience for it or interest in engaging you in conversation, so you have one less person to deal with around here.

With all due respect, Honorable Judge Thatcher,

I feel it’s pretty ironic that you’re re-posting the whole TSJC bit about me “putting words in other peoples mouths” and then doing the exact same in the very next paragraph.

I don’t recall saying that I post things with the “intent to be irritating”. I stated that I am aware that everybody views me as “the villain” on the boards…for whatever reason. One person even called me “the antagonist.” This doesn’t necessarily mean that these are my intentions or that I believe that I am personally and seek out to antagonize people for no reason.

I made ONE post yesterday replying with something stupid and as a joke put “well I don’t necessarily agree with this…but I’m viewed as the villain so I guess I have to say something like this” (not verbatim)…and it was a joke and a play on how everybody views me on this board because it’s ridiculous.

Fact of the matter is, everybody on here enjoys the rose colored glasses a little too much. Which is fine. It’s not my board. You can play pretend baseball fan and imagine everything to be butterflies and rainbows if you’d like. But just because I say something or propose an idea that MAY oppose your ice cream and puppy dog philosophies…don’t gang up on me. I’m not doing so to start an argument. I make a suggestion or ask a question…and you guys jockey for position and attack when whoever pulls the trigger…or so it seems.

I’ve been entirely misunderstood on this board…and it’s basically because the people who CAN change that…DON’T. All the big honchos on this board who people seemingly look up to continue to jump all over everything and blow things out of proportion…so all the other guys jump on board. If you either comment or respond in a nice non-confrontational manner or just brush it off all together…I’m sure you’ll see a lot of improvements in any and everyway.

It’s not rocket science.

Fact of the matter is, everybody on here enjoys the rose colored glasses a little too much. Which is fine. It’s not my board. You can play pretend baseball fan and imagine everything to be butterflies and rainbows if you’d like. But just because I say something or propose an idea that MAY oppose your ice cream and puppy dog philosophies…don’t gang up on me. I’m not doing so to start an argument. I make a suggestion or ask a question…and you guys jockey for position and attack when whoever pulls the trigger…or so it seems.

Other people on here also take less optimistic positions on numerous things. Frequently.
People like Tank Foster, and Pablo Zevallos, and Moshe Mandel, to name a few.

They don’t repeatedly mischaracterize other people’s positions. That’s why they don’t get treated the way you do. That’s why their opposing views are respected, and their discussions are civil.

Ok. So what was so bad about my suggestion with Nick Swisher’s poor performance at home?

You sarcastically made a response…I noticed it…and then all hell broke loose and it was my fault obviously.

It’s like taunting a lion…poking at it in it’s cage…then once it erupts and gets angry…you start pointing fingers at it…saying it’s crazy and needs to be put down.

Try being nice for a chance instead…or say “You know Makavelli…that may very well be the case…but it’s a long shot and I don’t necessarily agree.” As opposed to the sarcastic instigating. If you know me so well like you all claim you do…why instigate? Why even test it? Just write something normal or nothing at all. I don’t get it.

“With all due respect, Honorable Judge Thatcher,”

I preferred when you called me “Honorable Judge Reinhold.” Same joke for 6 months, and it never got old.

re: The misrepresentation of others’ opinions:

I didn’t put words in your mouth. When someone says to me that they ‘play the villain,’ I take that to mean that they intend to irritate other people, and I think that’s a reasonable interpretation. When you intend to play the villain in an internet-based conversation, you intend to do things that other people will find irritating.

re: The “villain” stuff:

Your post didn’t say ‘well people see me as the villain,’ it said ‘my comments are half-serious, I’m just playing the villain.’ Important distinction.

re: Your penultimate paragraph:

To borrow from TSJC’s arsenal, this entire paragraph is an ad hominem red herring.

re: Your last paragraph:

Just stop for a second and ask yourself if maybe you’re not misunderstood, but maybe you’re the one who misunderstands others. It’s the same old martyr stuff with you about how everyone attacks you and doesn’t understand you and you’re right and everyone else is wrong. It’s like a broken record, it’s the same conversation we were all having before you got banned as Axl. I just think maybe you could take a step back and re-evaluate the situation.

Raul Mondesi,

So when I make a relevant suggestion and somebody who claims to “know” or think that I’m this loose cannon guy who can’t control himself responds with sarcasm in an attempt to instigate an argument…that’s my fault? Why can’t you guys just respond like I asked above? “That could be the case, Makavelli…but I disagree…and here’s why…”

Instead, you sarcastically respond with the “intent” to instigate…and then when I defend myself…you all hold hands and point fingers at me basically saying “look! he’s crazy! he’s out of control!” When in reality I’m just sticking up for myself.

I don’t think I’m misunderstanding any of you guys. You have all been here for quite some time, formed a strong bond and seemingly take satisfaction in disagreeing with new guys who don’t see things the same ways are you do. You also have followers and/or supporters who “+1″ everything you say regardless and will join you in your crusade against those who have opposing beliefs.

That’s fine. But when you start taunting and instigating me and THEN try to make it look like it was all my fault and I’m this crazy person…that’s when I get upset. And I don’t understand it.

Axl, notice how it only happens to you?

Dude… I’ll leave it be after this comment… But please look back at the start of this entire shitshow of a conversation. Nobody responded to you with sarcasm or anger. TSJC responded (calmly and without humor) to your comment, you responded to him with your sarcastic lung cancer argument, and Ben responded to that argument (Ben’s response was sans sarcasm). You’re the one who started with the sarcasm and snark. Seriously, the written evidence is right here on this very page. Just slow down with the martyr act, and at least explore the possibility that nobody is out to get you or ganging up on you.

Ok. Why don’t you tell me why…and tell me where in my previous posts relating to this…where I’m wrong.

Raul,

I know you’re good buds or whatever but that’s no reason to pretend for him.

“I mean it can’t actually be ANOTHER coincidence can it?” in the middle of my suggestion…

With a response…
Or, it could just all be nothing and just a coincidence.

Is “calmly” responding to me without humor or sarcasm?

Cmon, save it for the quire. Your tight nit buds on here might pretend to believe everything you guys say but deep down you and I know it’s all bullshit.

But whatever. Nothing’s going to change clearly. You’ll all keep rattling the cage and then jumping back and pointing fingers each time after you instigate trying to potray me as the crazy bad guy.

I just don’t understand how you all claim to “know how I am” yet still instigate. It boggles my mind.

Okay. Last time, sorry for the late reply, I was making moves.

Let’s go through this again, Makavelli, from the top. Because clearly, you’re still missing the point.

Makavelli says:
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:40 am

It’s amazing isn’t it?

It must have something to do with being nervous in front of all the fans and really wanting to make an impact for everybody or something? I mean it can’t actually be ANOTHER coincidence can it?

The guy really loves helping others and doing things for other people, giving things to people. Maybe he’s thinking about really wanting to give something to the fans too much? Who knows.

It has to be something. The mind is a powerful thing.

Nothing wrong with that comment. Nothing at all.

tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside says:
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:45 am

Or, it could just all be nothing and just a coincidence.

My reply. Not meanspirited, not assaulting, just my differing opinion about what you directly said about Nick Swisher’s home/away splits.

Makavelli says:
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:49 am

That’s usually what everything is…

My friend’s mother smoked all of her life and contracted lung cancer…but I’ve always been skeptical…it’s just a coincidence…

lol

A fine response. You presented a humorous analogy, and clearly indicated that you were joking around a little. Still nothing wrong.

Benjamin Kabak says:
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:04 am

Baseball =/= Medical science.

And Ben responds with a plaintive reply that doesn’t even rise to the level where it can be called “snark”. Nobody is at all upset or annoyed with anything yet; not you, not me, not Ben. Nobody is getting nasty.

Makavelli says:
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:22 am

So basically what everybody on this site is saying is…

Baseball =/= Medical Science

BUT!

Baseball = Coincidence

Meaning…that everything that happens in baseball is mere coincidence…

Hmm…interesting.

That’s where you brought the bitch session on you, Makavelli. Not your initial two comments, which were utterly benign. What drew everyone’s ire was the fact that three comments in, you created a strawman argument to knock down. You turned Ben and I from saying the specific “There’s probably no direct cause and effect happening here with Nick Swisher, it’s just the ol’ ’shit happens’ deal” into “EVERYBODY on this board thinks everything about baseball is utterly random and coincidental.”

The problem is not when you offer opinions, or offer humor. It’s when you warp the statements of other people to make your own statements sound better in comparison.

That’s why people get pissed at you.

well done

I don’t think “lol” was around in his day…and comparing an antagonist like RAB’s “Makavelli” to Volatire isn’t exactly relevant

Thanks Joe.

And listen, I’m not trying to get people going here. Maybe my reputation precedes me and there’s nothing I can do about it.

Thank you for sticking up for me here though, anyway.

KayGee,

Sorry if you didn’t get what I was trying to say. I know how it feels…I’m victim to it many a time and it’s earned me the reputation I know hold haha.

dude, there was no attakc on you therefore no reasno to attack someone else. the guy did nothing wrong. calm down

KayGee,

I don’t think it’s fair to call me an “antagonist”. When have I ever gone out of my way to provoke anything? I’ve written something down. People have responded to my post in disagreement…and I’ve argued with them about it.

I don’t see how that makes me an antagonist? Are you used to people providing their ideas…having them get shot down…and then the person just cowering in a corner there-after?

Voltaire didn’t need to put “sarcasm” or “lol” in Candide, did he?

True story: The new hit single “LOL Smileyface” by Trey Songz, Gucci Mane, and Soulja Boy Tellem was actually ghostwritten by William Shakespeare in 1597.”

“I’ll have the pancakes and the uh…age of enlightenment, please.”

“Hang on, Voltaire!”

Honestly Makavelli (and whoever else cares), I’m not all that heated….No real need to apologize…I just have a potty mouth and that’s how I react to stuff…I felt like once I made the correction, there was no need to point out the mistake…but for you being an antagonist, saying “I hate to say I told you so” as you did in an earlier post in this threat and from a bunch of posts by you that I’ve read, you are constantly opposing people here…whether it is because you actually think what you are saying is true or you just want to spark debate, someone who contends or opposes is , by definition, an antagonist

* threat = thread….fast typing at work is not my strength…..

“antagonize” me again and receive 1 more hateful slur
…sarcasm

“antagonize” me again and receive 1 more hateful slur
…sarcasm

I’ll take “Jap Anus Relations for $400, Trebek.”

For the sake of accuracy…

Makavelli, above: “I don’t think it’s fair to call me an ‘antagonist’. When have I ever gone out of my way to provoke anything?”

Makavelli, yesterday: “I’m mainly just playing my role as ‘the villain.’”

Winner