Open Thread: Flip-flopenthal
ByMid-day Friday, Ken Rosenthal put out this piece on the Yankees and how they have to do more than just show up to be successful in October. You might have seen it already, he says this year’s club isn’t all that different from the 2005-2007 Yankee teams that got bounced in the first round. Actually, here, allow me to quote:
The 2009 Yankees are not much different statistically from the 2005, ’06 and ’07 Joe Torre teams that got knocked out in the first round.
Those clubs all ranked first or second in the American League in runs, pitched average to slightly below-average and defended with minimal proficiency.
These Yankees, true to form, rank first in the league runs and eighth in ERA. They play better defense, thanks in large part to the addition of first baseman Mark Teixeira, improvement of shortstop Derek Jeter and use of Brett Gardner in center field. But if the Yankees go deep into the postseason, it might be due more to inferior first-round competition than actual superiority.
It’s your typical “here are the Yankees’ flaws and why they might lose” article, the same thing that gets written every September. But now, two days and two wins over the Red Sox later, Rosenthal’s singing a different tune. Check out this video:
Amazing how things can change in such a short period of time, huh?
Anyway, here’s your open thread for the night. There’s no baseball tonight because of the Jewish holiday, but the Colts and Cards are playing at 8:20. There’s also a new episode of Family Guy on. Talk about whatever you like, just make sure you follow the guidelines and be cool to each other.
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WHO CARES!!!
We won! I am in a GREAT mood right now. I never, ever thought that the team would be this good. They’re better than I could have possibly thought.
+27
Great Day. Everyone wins.
Now if I could just get started on my reading and essay, which I was supposed to start Thursday night just to barely have enough time to finish everything. I have no idea how Im going to do everything in one night.
Typical Yankee babble. When the Yanks win the series, I’m sure they’ll all be talking about how bad the Yankees are for the game of baseball and how there NEEDS to be a salary cap in baseball because the rest of the teams can’t compete.
Aren’t you from lohud?
I do frequent the Lohud blog, but I pass by here from time to time as well.
I frequent both blogs.
Did the bridge jumpers jump or have they just gone incognito until our next loss?
whoops, forgot my Melkman hyperlink.
I don’t think we had anything too serious, just a little hedging: “Anyone worried we won’t win the division?”
The real bridge jumping was elsewhere, thankfully.
Hope they jumped but I doubt it.
Wow, Cincinnati is about to comeback to beat the Steelers with a miracle drive.
Ochocinco called it. Skip Bayless threw up twice today. First the Red Sox lose, now the Bengals are winning.
The NFL does not like the Jews. Anti-semitic bastards.
I thought both NY teams won today…
What about the Arizona Jews, for Mo’s sake?
You know the guy who makes the schedule is Jewish right?
Why even bother paying attention to what Ken Rosenthal says? The guy’s a moron. At least Peter Gammons knows baseball. With Rosenthal, I can’t fathom how he got his job.
He probably just kept babbling on and on in his interview with his random pauses in his sentences and his potential boss just didn’t want to hear anymore and just gave the job to him out of being annoyed. I hear he wants to fire him but just doesn’t want to have another talk with him and his odd talking ways.
I don’t even care that my fantasy team was fleeced.
Im kinda disappointed that the Lions won. I wanted to see hoe long their losing streak could go. Oh well.
man that city is hurting so much, you have to root for them. although it was blackouted (nfl=fail) so they didnt get to see it.
but their new coach brought the team back on the field and had them walk around the field and shake hands/high fives/talk to the fans that were there- good moment to see.
Yea, thats the only reason Im happy they won.
I’m sure the five fans in the stadium (not counting the players’ Moms)will remember that day forever.
The blackout was pathetic and inexcusable.
There’s also a new episode of Family Guy on.
27 Dresses just started too, if anyone ELSE is interested.
/Mr. Romantic’d
I’m interested in curb your enthusiasm on AFTER that.
Anyone see the House premier last Monday? It isn’t on Hulu (and won’t be until after the second episode is up!) or Fox. WTF!
BitTorrent, baby.
http://www.Surfthechannel.com/
IT was a good eps IMO.
Hey I linked both of those Rosenthal things you know.
You just never get enough recognition.
You brought FOX Sports to the masses. Nobody even knew about that site, let alone this Ken Rosenthal character, before you came along. The least you could get in return is a tip o’ the hat.
Right I was definitely complaining about that.
My bad if I misunderstood, I was just kidding around anyway. What did you mean?
It was more like “I did it first!” kind of thing. But I see how it seems like I complained so my bad.
Um… Yeah.
Best defense in the NFL so far: The Denver Broncos Defense
Best team in the majors right now: THE NY YANKEES!!!!
(in case you haven’t heard)
Anyway, yeah that’s kind of ridiculously, completely shocking.
Really? The Yankees are? That’s pretty awesome because they’re my favorite team.
Generally experts pick them as favorites for the World champinship.
I direct you to a great site called river ave. blues.
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-603964
Here for all your Yankee needs.
against Cincy, Cleveland and the Raiders.
Thats why I said “so far”
ha ok, just pointing that out
Yea, but Im just excited because last year, even these teams would have a good day with our defense. Domination this year by us though.
I wonder how many calls Cash has made to Chapman’s agent.
What ever happened to Yasser Gomez and Yadel Marti???
Salty, you feeling any Josh McDaniels love yet????
Like I said, I’m giving him 2 years. I love the work done on the defense so far. I dont want to get too excited because we had a similar hot start last year and we know what happened.
But so far so good for MCD. Im loving Mike Nolan though.
Orton was actually good today. He didn’t make any dumb decisions and his short passes led to a lot of yards (thanks to B-Marsh, Gaffney, and our RBs). We had a great running game today so that helped.
Can we start putting D Jax in the top 5 best WR’s in the game rite now? That dude is just sick.
top 5? no, top 10 or 15 probably.
but i do love that he was questionable all week with the groin, then does a flip into the endzone
The Yankees need only 7 homers to tie the 1960 Yankees and 9 homers to tie the 2004 Yankees. But isn’t there a 1990′s Yankee squad that holds the record? Does anyone know?
Just found it. According to Wikipedia.com, the Yankee team home run record is 242 in 2004.
Maybe you haven’t heard:
WE WON THE AL EAST!!!! WE WON 100 games!!!! WE WON 9 OF OUR LAST 10 AGAINST THE RED SOX!!!! WE CLINCHED HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE!!!!
Just, you know, in case you missed it.
Wait… what?
I can’t WAIT to go to class tomorrow. We will BE discussing World War TWO films, my … FAVORITE era in World History.
/Rosenthal’d
When he talks, he always sounds like he’s telling a story to a bunch of children. Odd dude.
You want odd? Have you ever noticed how Rosenthal always has this peculiar smile while he’s talking?
I believe it’s known as a “shit-eating grin.” Heh.
Can’t be. He’s married to Selena Roberts.
How in the world are the Yankees behind the Dodgers by 21 runs in Run Differential – 159 to 180. That just seems out of whack.
Bigelow green tea?
Lots of NL suck, too
+1 Torre thank you for that.
The Dodgers play the DBacks, Padres and Giants a bunch.
Very true. But we played the Nationals . . . oh wait. . . they swept the Yanks.
nah they only took 2 outta 3
I feel better now.
In one series when we were playing bad baseball.
lowest point in the season. Then we decided to rip shit
IDK, losing five in a row before the miracle of A-Rod was pretty low.
Yeah, but they play each of those anemic offenses 19 times. And they’re a good team. My point is that their strength of schedule is WAY, WAY easier than the Yanks.
I agree.
Best picture of the day:
http://assets.nydailynews.com/.....bhouse.jpg
You guys should include this in your recap tonight.
The Yankees have to make room on the roster and find a way to resign Matsui. He has been great this year, and h’e come through in the clutch so many times.
I’m for resigning Matsui, too. As a hitter, he’s just too good not to bring back. Matsui leaving = Yanks’ offense down in 2010.
The thing is that it’s better to let a guy go a year early than a year late. His knees are a time bomb. How many times has he had them drained this year?
If they’re going to bring him back, he needs to be on a deal cheap enough that they won’t hesitate to sit him and cut bait if his health makes him ineffective. And they need to be built to absorb that loss.
+1
And who knows, maybe Dek wants to go back to Japan start his fam.
Replacing him through free agency is pretty impossible, replacing him via trade isn’t quite as difficult.
It depends. If they acquire a LFer who’s a plus defensively with a league-average bat and bring Damon back to DH/LF, that could make up the value.
Trade-wise, I was thinking Dunn
i wish
THE JETS ARE 3-0
PUSSYTUBING IS FUCKING AWESOME!
anyone know if the yankees won today ?
hehehe
“and be cool to each other.”
party on dudes
That’s “be excellent to each other”
A phrase to live by.
it was close enough for me to attempt it
Anyone see the party photos in Yahoo.com? The last picture is by far the best.
This is random, but a few months ago I was watching ESPN First Take and they were discussing the Yankees and I DVR’d the segment because it was so batshit insane. So now I proudly present, for your reading enjoyment, schadenfraude as we point and laugh at Ryan Stewart and Skip Bayless as they eat a big shit sandwich.
———————
Excerpts from May 18, 2009, ESPN First Take:
Ryan Stewart: Before the season started… To me the Yankees were the third best team in the AL East behind Boston and Tampa. Now Toronto’s jumped ahead of a couple of teams, so they’re now the fourth best team in my eyes… [snip] … Until the Bombers find a way to put Joba back in the ‘pen, they’re not going to win 85 to 90 ballgames… [snip] … They… don’t have enough quality arms, and pitching is where it’s at if you want to win in the majors… [snip] … I don’t know if the team has confidence in Joe Girardi like they did in Joe Torre.
Skip Bayless: I… think Boston and Tampa are just overall better teams and I think that will show itself over time. I love what Toronto is doing so far, but I think they’ll end up in third place and I think the Yankees could be fourth place in this league… [snip] … Tampa just quietly won 4 out of 5 and they still got a nuclear weapon down at triple A in David Price, just wait until he comes up. I don’t trust the overall starting pitching enough. And again, A-Rod hit the first pitch he saw for a home run and then he was like hitting .150 for a while. I just don’t know if he’s going to make that much of a difference against two organizations in the Red Sox and Tampa that are overall better.
———————
AL East standings on May 18, 2009:
Toronto 27 14 .659 -
Boston 22 16 .579 3.5
NY Yankees 21 17 .553 4.5
Tampa Bay 20 20 .500 6.5
Baltimore 16 22 .421 9.5
AL East standings on September 27, 2009:
NY Yankees 100 56 .641 - [clinched division championship]
Boston 91 64 .587 8.5
Tampa Bay 79 76 .510 20.5
Toronto 72 84 .462 28
Baltimore 60 95 .387 39.5
79-39 since then. HAHA
Badunka dunk
Wow, that’s really stupid.
How to – An idiots guide to being an idiot
That is choice.
Please read the damn article.
He says STATISTICALLY the team isn’t that different from the past teams, then explains which statistics he’s referring to. In that context, he is correct.
He then says this team IS MORE LIKELY TO WIN, albiet because of weaker competition in round 1. Here as well it is hard to argue that he’s wrong.
Finally he says IF the Yanks lose, the ONLY way they can lose, if CC and AJ shit the bed in games 1 and 2. Also kind of hard to argue that point – if the Yanks drop game 1 and 2 (at home, yet), there will be round the clock suicide watch on a number of blogs and messageboards.
I don’t see your point.
Are you defending him for saying that if CC and AJ “shit the bed” then we’re in trouble. I think any baseball fan with half a brain understands that if your top two starters go down early and hard then you’re in trouble.
The thing is, he spoke about the Yankees as if we’re playing the second coming of Mo’s First Team. If you’re going to argue about AJ and CC, why not say the Tigers are in trouble if JV and E-Jax suck. Or Boston stands no shot if Lester and Beckett suck.
Is that objective journalism or stating the obvious worst possible scenario?
He then goes on to say that we are now in good position because our pitchers probably won’t “shit the bed.”
He’s a tool.
Aggregate team ERA is not a real useful stat for comparison here. First off, dump the 5th starter ERA, which means that Wang and Mitre’s poor performances are wholly irrelevant, as is the performance of the bottom end of the bullpen.
The back of the bullpen is WAY better than the Yanks over the last couple years. AJ Burnett is a wild card, but Sabathia is way better than Wang. Pettitte is certainly comparable to Moose from 2004-2007, Burnett has it in him to be amazing, and Joba is sure as hell better than like…Kevin Brown or Jaret Wright.
Rosenthal’s article is just a bunch of red herrings. This team is also far superior defensively to any that the Yankees have put out there in the last five years.
In all of the metrics that correlate with postseason success (strikeout pitching, dominant closer, and defense) the Yanks stack up as good or better than previous versions of this team.
+a lot
He draws conclusions from those “statistics.” He then later cites different observations and draws totally different conclusions.
The point being he both has no idea what he is talking about and also panders to both audiences. Hes an idiot.
anyone seen this pic?
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ph.....38;prov=ap
whose grandpa is that on the right? oh wait that’s EDWAR!
The Melkman knows how to party!
Just checking out 2011′s FA class and who may be trade candidates next year. Assuming Dek doesn’t come back. Many players would be sick DH’s/corner outfielders blah blah.
Big Puma
Carlos Pena
I’m afraid of Brad Hawpe & G Atkins
Mags if his option doesn’t vest
Dunn dizzl
A-Ram (me like but will he slide from 3rd?)
Julio Lugo… /Theo’d
D-Lee
Just a few, I’m a big fan of Lee, Ramirez and Dunn.
MLBTR doesn’t list ManRam but I think he only has next year as an option so he should be available too.
Other than Dunn and Manny, I wouldn’t touch any of those guys.
Aramis Ramirez has been pretty great since 2004.
Yeah, but we have the 3B locked down pretty well. If you’re gonna bring in ARam, might as well just resign Deki instead.
“Yeah, but we have the 3B locked down
pretty welllike San fuckin’ Quentin.”I know, but I was just naming potential future DH’s or corner outfielders. Who knows what goes on this winter and the first few months of next season in Chicago.
I could see ARam as a DH, but then it makes it harder to rest the old men at DH, except of course for Alex. ARam’s also never played OF in his major league life.
Sure you wouldn’t.
I stand by my statement. Ramirez’s pubes are dreaded (what a party trick!), and Dunn is too lazy to say “no”.
/Ricciardi’d
Otherwise, pass.
No free agent pickups for the Yanks this winter, please. Except for Aroldis Chapman, that is, if the Yankee brass thinks he’s the real deal.
I’d rather we kept our first-round draft pick next June and didn’t add to the inevitable anti-Yankee backlash one year after picking up Sabathia-Burnett-Teixeira.
I also think the Yanks should bring back Damon and Matsui, provided we can get them on one-year deals. I know, the conventional wisdom is that one or both of those players will be gone, but IMO that would be a mistake. Damon and Matsui are still top-notch hitters. There is no replacing those bats (at least until Jesus Montero makes it to the big club).
Austin Jackson is probably still a year away. Montero’s the wild card. I think he starts the year at AAA, and personally I think he’ll tear it up. What the Yankees will do about that I don’t know – he needs to play at AAA if the Yankees are committed to keeping him at catcher.
I just disagree that Matsui’s bat is irreplaceable. I love Dek but at his age and with his health, I wouldn’t be opposed to bringing someone else in. Those few I named are merely guys that may eventually find themselves on a trade block.
Dek earned 13 mil this year and played solely DH’d, he is replaceable imo.
OH CAPTAIN MY CAPTAIN
http://cdn1.sbnation.com/impor.....seball.jpg
I can’t wait to see the next week of meaningless games! What’s the over/under on hit batsmen!
I can’t wait to see some IPK action. Too bad A-Jax isn’t getting a look.
Yeah I figured Ajax would have had front row seats to the Sox/Yanks Series.. I guess he’s home already.
He’s not on the 40 man and it’s not worth juggling it around to fit him on it just yet.
Hence, “front row seats.” He’s allowed to be in the park.
My apologies I thought you meant the dugout.
The Yankees are in the house, and they’re here to fuck shit up!
-Step Brother’d
boats and ho’s!
I know I’m way late on this but whatver: WOOOO!
streaking!!!
“But if the Yankees go deep into the postseason, it might be due more to inferior first-round competition than actual superiority.”
When I first read this somewhere on here yesterday, I began pondering the stupidity of this comment. If I try and think about it anymore, I think my brain is going to short-circuit.
Holy shit, Peyton Manning is incredible.
agreed 100%. pick up garcon in your fantasy league if you haven’t yet dude is ill.
Hey AndrewYF or anyone else out there who might know . . . what’s the best NY Giants blog to go too? I realize that RAB is one in a million but are there any quite like this awesome community out there?
Also, are there any good beat writer blogs as well? I feel like there aren’t either to be truthful. Giantsfootballblog kinda blows.
I don’t really follow the Giants like I do the Yankees, but I like the SBNation blog BigBlueView.
http://www.bigblueview.com/
I like the SBNation look and feel. It’s what MVN attempted to be, but unfortunately it was run by college student Red Sox fans and has gone to absolute crap.
I’ve been reading that blog for a while now, and it’s a good one. It’s actually the only NYG blog I read regularly.
kk thanks
I read it regularly as well. I also pop on BBI:
http://www.bigblueinteractive.com/
A lot of very smart fans on there. The forums can get heated – just use common sense to avoid nonsense.
Who remembers that time the MLB Network did mid-year report cards and gave the Red Sox an A and the Yankees a B+?
Oh me, me, I do, I do!
I don’t see anything wrong with that. The Yankees, at least, didn’t deserve a grade in the A range going into the All-Star break.
I don’t remember the exact breakdown, but it was actually pretty ridiculous. Yanks were only 3 games behind Boston at that point after the sweep in Anaheim.
I was going to watch the Rosenthal video, but I couldn’t find anything but how to get ripped in 4 weeks.
Silva, I was reading your old blog, and you ranked Darrell Rasner the Yankees’ top midseason prospect on June 1, 2006.
That’s all I have to say.
I meant Axisa. The hunger is already getting to me.
Read the headline, it says based on 2006 performance. Nothing else.
what happens when you clinch the playoffs and you have a player who is under 21 like maybe Arod when he was 19 or Andruw Jones when he was 19? Do they get to party?
Nope, their parent/guardian must pick them up in the claims department.
ha, but seriously?
If I recall correctly, Jaromir Jagr got in trouble for that early in his career.
I thought the young’ns get to drink soder pop and stay in the corner with umbrellas.
I know they had non-alcoholic champagne one year when Straw was with the team.
When he was young, or when he was recovering?
Recovering.
The latter.
If they play for the Blue Jays!
Any News on Aroldis Chapman today?
aside from establishing residency in Andorra and being declared a free agent…no.
If there were, mlbtraderumors.com would have it
i figured that, but there’s new guys on there…
And most of them suck (Axisa, not referring to you.)
Postgame show is being replayed on YES right now.
I didn’t get to see this today, so I’m pumped to see it now.
Same here.
Kim Jones was shocked to have Mariano pour champagne on her
Big LOL at Mo setting Kim up.
Somehow the Rangers managed to blow it against the Rays. Frank Francisco (the same guy who gave up something like 6 ER in 2/3 of an inning earlier in the season) took a crap on the mound. Sox magic number down to 2.
The Rangers have really choked down the stretch. Too bad. I was pulling for them. The injuries didn’t help either.
The Rays are another team that just fell apart in the second half, especially since the Kazmir trade. I think they regressed to the mean this year. They had a lot of players achieve career years in 2008.
Agreed, unless Price and Wade Davis have big years next year, i don’t see them as a threat in the AL East…
Bullpen is horrible, offense is scrambled, especially BJ Upton…
Upton has been terrible this year. They should trade him but his value has fallen off a cliff, so they can’t.
Price has talent, but is a young developing pitcher, going through struggles similar to those of Joba.
Sonnastine and Shields are very over-rated based on careers in 2008. Garza is sold but not spectacular.
They will finish no better than third in the AL East in 2010. They are struggling now to barely finish over .500 in 2009.
Shields is not overrated. He’s a very solid pitcher in his prime signed to a very cheap deal.
Maybe they should be looking to trade him.
He’s 27 not 23-25. His era went up from 3.56 in 2008 to 4.17 in 2009. Middling strikeout rate. Pretty good control. But I, for one, am not impressed. He’s a middle of the rotation guy at best.
Wow…severe disagreement from my end on the Shields front.
I’d take middling to mean mediocre or average, and Shields’ K rate is pretty well above-average for an SP: by about .6 K/9.
His walk rate is 1 BB/9 below the SP average this season. In ’07 and ’08, it was 1.5 less than average. That’s definitely better than pretty good.
His 4.17 ERA would rank him third among Yanks long-term starters this season, and a mere .06 off of the 2nd place Pettite. And this is his worst season (by ERA) in the last three years.
So if Shields were a Yankee (the very thought makes me drool, I must admit), his worst season of the last three would still be good enough to make him the #2/#3 SP on our 100-win team.
Shields is at worst a middle of the rotation guy. Not at best. At best (as in Shields’ 07/08), he’d be a clear #2 on the Yanks, leaving Burnett behind, but pending what Joba/Hughes do going forward.
Just so everyone is aware… Peter Gammons wants you all to know that the Red Sox middle relief is unhittable… just wanted to fill you in… good night…
Love the fact that Bard (Closer of the Future)has given up 6 homers all year — five to the Yankees. Ya think they’ll be dangling him in a trade soon?
That is great. I think he is Kyle Fransworth, Jr. – very hittable high 90′s fast balls. Not much else.