Girardi ‘the man’ but not for an extension yet

Winning by any means necessary
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Hal Steinbrenner speaketh and so we listen.

Yesterday afternoon, prior to the Yanks’ last home game of the regular season, Hal Steinbrenner made a rare appearance in front of the media. As the Yanks’ beat writers grilled him on topics ranging from Hank and George to the team’s postseason hopes, Hal talked a little bit about Joe Girardi‘s future.

As the Yankee writers are wont to do, talk eventually turned to Girardi’s job security. “Would Joe be fired if the Yanks do not capture a crown?” they asked. Hal answered diplomatically, “Joe has had a tremendous year this year. We all know that. He’s got the best record in baseball. As far as I’m concerned and the family’s concerned and the organization’s concerned, he’s the man for the job.”

Later in the day, Jon Heyman clarified the Yanks’ thinking. “Regardless of what happens in October,” Heyman wrote, “the Yankees don’t plan to extend Joe Girardi this winter. Team policy is to let every contract run to the end. And that includes Girardi, and even Derek Jeter, whose contract also expires after 2010.”

So Joe Girardi will head into 2010 as a lame-duck manager no matter what. Should the Yankees win the title, he’ll feel pretty good about his job security. Should they falter early in the playoffs, he’ll have to manage while looking over his shoulder all season. That can’t be a very comfortable feeling.

So far in his short Yankee tenure, nothing Girardi has done has led me to think he’s a bad fit for New York. Much as Joe Torre did, he knows how to handle a team of high-paid veterans and up-and-coming rookies. Despite a rocky start over injuries in 2009, he has shown an ability to handle a critical and fickle New York sports media. He has also shown a tendency to win games. His in-game strategy has led to a Major League-best 102 wins this year.

In the end, Girardi probably will get an extension. Hal seems to recognize that the playoffs are of a different beast than the regular season. The battle is getting there, and after that, the manager — as long as he doesn’t, say, bat A-Rod eighth — has less of an effect on the team than we would want. My money is on an eventual extension, but similar to Derek Jeter, Girardi won’t earn his until after a solid 2010 campaign. That’s just the way things work in the Yankee Universe.

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Winning by any means necessary
Poll: What was your favorite moment of the second half?
  • Ed

    Even if the team is willing to extend Girardi early, there’s no reason for them to indicate it publicly. I can’t picture a situation where the team wants to keep Girardi but he wants to leave, so there’s no advantage to the Yankees bringing up the issue first.

  • JMK aka The Overshare

    We all harp about the occasional small-ball mindset, and some question the wisdom of Hughes in the bullpen (at least on RAB; it seems less prevalent across the mainstream Yankee Universe), but Girardi has quietly done an excellent job this season. His relationship with the media is much improved and he seems much more comfortable at the helm this year.

    He’s been able to balance young guys like Pena and Cervelli with a veteran lineup, while also resting the team sufficiently. The biggest difference between this year and last is Tex, CC and health. We’ve been remarkably healthy this year.

    Also, I yap a bit about Girardi’s bullpen management, but you know what? He hasn’t burned those guys out and we’re still looking at 100-something wins and a great chance in the post-season. Ron Washington seemed like a trendy pick for AL Manager of the Year award, but his team has faltered and frankly, Girardi deserves it.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      And actually, his bullpen management has been pretty similar both years: Keep giving all sorts of guys all sorts of chances during the early season; don’t give up on anyone until absolutely necessary, and show patience and faith.

      It makes us pull our hair out, but come September and October, he’s found a mix of guys who he can trust and depend on.

      • JMK aka The Overshare

        If you had been asked in April if you thought Girardi’s managing would be “great,” would you have said yes?

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Probably, yeah. I thought his managing last year was good. This year it’s been good, too.

          Great? Meh, what the hell is great managing?

          Picking a manager to me is like picking a vice presidential candidate: There’s not really a “right” selection. Only a “wrong” one. As long as you’ve picked someone who’s not a bad manager, you’ll probably be okay. The players take care of the rest.

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            That’s a very, very good analogy.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              A good manager fills out the lineup card, keeps everyone fresh but not rusty, doesn’t ruin the arms of his pitchers by overusing them, shows faith in his players when nobody else does, defends his guys in the media and fosters a positive clubhouse atmosphere, and tries to play up his people’s strengths, put them in a position to win.

              It’s not easy, but it’s not hard either. Be smart, be patient, keep your eye on the prize and always think big picture. Girardi has done enough of that for my tastes.

              Does he get matchup-crazy from time to time? Does he bunt too much? Sure. But, at least he’s not assassinating pitchers like Joe Torre or Dusty Baker, or asleep at the wheel while his team bumbles around playing little league baseball like Jerry Manuel or Ozzie Guillen or Lou Pinella.

              You want to pick someone like Joe Biden: a guy who has some strengths, but who’s weaknesses are so mild or benign that they’re largely moot. You don’t want to pick a Sarah Palin who sabotages the work you’re doing and becomes a hindrance to your campaign with his constant and blatant overmanaging or undermanaging.

          • Tom Zig

            Would a bad manager be someone like Dusty Baker?

            • JMK aka The Overshare

              Unequivocally, YES.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                Without a doubt.

                Dusty Baker = Sarah Palin

                • Jersey

                  Hey now. Dusty did have a pretty damn fine playing career. He didn’t go full retard until later in life.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  He didn’t go full retard until later in life.

                  http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_kDnJ.....e_jack.jpg

                • Jersey

                  Exactly. I’m still waiting for Dusty to ease off the retard throttle.

                • Yanks4ever

                  Seriously, tsjc what’s with all the conservative hatred, buddy? Never see you use some idiotic liberal personalities in your humor.
                  It’s really dissapointing to see you consistently attack certain personalities that lean politcially right because you are often the funniest & coolest commentator on this fantastic site.
                  Please, start expanding your subject matter because it offends those politically conservative who share your passion for the Yanks.

          • JMK aka The Overshare

            The term is sort of difficult to qualify, agreed. Anyway, http://latewire.com/images/fek.....vagina.jpg

        • Chris

          I would have.

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

    Later in the day, Jon Heyman clarified the Yanks’ thinking. “Regardless of what happens in October,” Heyman wrote, “the Yankees don’t plan to extend Joe Girardi this winter. Team policy is to let every contract run to the end. And that includes Girardi, and even Derek Jeter, whose contract also expires after 2010.”

    In February 1997, and in April 2004, the Yankees gave Torre a new three year extension during the final year of his existing pact (i.e. before letting his contract run through to the end).

    The 2/97 extension ripped up the final year of his two year contract for the 96-97 seasons and gave him a three year pact for 97-98-99. The 4/04 extension tacked on three more years (05-06-07) to the end of his three year deal for 02-03-04 signed back in ’02.

    • The Three Amigos

      I think it’s more of… after not extending Posada and Rivera early… and not wanting to extend Jeter after a career year… no one else gets an extension during their current contract.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Yeah. Maybe the comment should read “Team policy is to now let every contract run to the end.”

        Because that policy is not a fixed, permanent policy. Maybe it is now, but it hasn’t been that way in the past.

    • jsbrendog

      pfffft, details

    • JMK aka The Overshare

      Oh, TSJC, you and your silly facts. Audio, video, disco!

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      I think that’s a new policy though, implemented once Cashman got full autonomy. About the only extension that came before a deal was over that I can think of since then is Cano’s, but that’s a different situation.

  • Mike HC

    The “every contract runs to the end before we start talking” policy is rigid and stupid. Every situation should be handled individually. If the Yanks win the World Series, it would be ridiculous and insulting not to give Girardi a new deal. I obviously have no say in how the Yanks run their organization, but this policy is impersonal and a bit of a turn off from this fans perspective.

    • http://twitter.com/hopjake Jake H

      I don’t think so. Would you go to your boss and say I know I’m going to make this next year but I want it in writing that the following year I’m going to get ____ raise? No. Contracts are given for performance and the organization or company to judge how future performance will be.

      While I think Joe has done a very good job this is only his 3rd year being the overal team manager. I have no problems with the Yankees wanting to see how he does with another season and hopefully another playoff run next year.

      • Mike HC

        Yes. If I win a monster case, making my firm tons of money and added prestige, there is no doubt I will ask my boss for a raise, or bonus. And I’m sure he would be happy to give it to me.

        Secondly, no matter the custom of my profession, it is customary in baseball to give World Series winning managers an extension, especially for guys at the end of their deals.

        • http://twitter.com/hopjake Jake H

          So lets Say Girardi had won the WS last year in the 1st year in his deal they should have given him an extension? I don’t think that would happen.

          Customs can be changed and if it really is going to affect Joe then he might not be the guy who should be the manager. I go to work and at any time if my performance suffers they can fire me. I still do my job, why should athletes and coaches who are doing a kid game get more job security then teachers?

          • Mike HC

            You seem to have an issue with our entire society. That is a whole other debate. We clearly just fundamentally disagree about how much athletes and coachs get paid and how much they deserve to get paid. I’m of thinking that it is better in Girardi’s hand than the Steinnbrenners vault

            • http://twitter.com/hopjake Jake H

              I don’t have a problem with it. I’m just saying that to say he is a lame duck manager and should be worried is putting down what everyone else does.

          • Ed

            Any job with salaries in the millions (probably starting once you hit hundreds of thousands) has far more security than your average job.

            There are far fewer viable candidates for those jobs than for lower level jobs. As such, the worker has far more leverage than in a normal situation. This usually plays out as either guaranteed contracts or guarantees for large severance packages.

            • Mike HC

              Are you trying to say the baseball managers have good job security? That is crazy talk

              • Ed

                Their salaries are guaranteed. Even if they get fired, they get to sit at home and get paid every penny. Perhaps “job security” isn’t the right term for that, but whatever you want to call it, it’s a far better deal than most jobs.

                • Mike HC

                  ok. I will give you that.

        • Ed

          Yes. If I win a monster case, making my firm tons of money and added prestige, there is no doubt I will ask my boss for a raise, or bonus. And I’m sure he would be happy to give it to me.

          Right, but unless your boss thinks you’re considering leaving, he won’t just walk up to you and offer you a raise. He’ll wait for you to come and ask for one. And he’ll hope that you’ll suggest a number lower than he’s willing to hand out.

          Girardi’s under contract for 2010 already. And he’s already given indications that he’d rather have the Yankees job than any other job. So the Yankees won’t make the first move.

          • Mike HC

            I agree there. It is on me to ask, which Girardi, or his agent, should do. If his agent doesn’t, then I’m not sure what he is getting paid for.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      If the Yanks win the World Series, it would be ridiculous and insulting not to give Girardi a new deal.

      I bet that’s what happens anyway. Hal’s just being coy now to throw the reporters off his scent.

      Hal: (waves hand) These aren’t the droids you’re looking for.
      Heyman: These aren’t the droids we’re looking for.
      Hal: (waves hand) I can go about my business.
      Heyman: You can go about your business.
      Hal: (waves hand) Move along.
      Heyman: Move along… move along.

    • Ed

      I seriously doubt the no extensions rule is a hard rule. Their normal policy is to go year to year with arbitration guys, but when Cano was willing to give the team a break on his arbitration years, the team listened.

      You always want to give yourself the most leverage you can. In this case, they want Girardi to come to them and make the first offer.

      If Girardi starts making public comments along the lines of “I don’t want to manage anywhere else”, expect the Yankees to take a harder stance. If he starts saying “I don’t know what I’ll do when my contract ends. I’ll look at all my options and take the best opportunity available”, expect the Yankees to be more willing to talk extension.

      • Mike HC

        I’m with you there. Although in some cases, it would make smart business sense not to be so hard lined with negotiations. Rewarding your manager after winning a World Series would be one of those cases in my opinion.

        There is no point for Hal to come out and say that Girardi will get an extension if we win a WS before the playoffs even start, so I think “Ridiculous Upside” is right that Hal is just being coy

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

    Hal’s checklist:

    1.) Win the World Series
    2.) Go pussytubing
    3.) Give Joe an extension, despite what I said to the press
    4.) Prank-call John Henry
    5.) Negotiate secret-under-the-table deal with Felix Hernandez to ensure he hits free agency and signs with the Yankees, sabotaging the Sox offseason for the second year in a row and ensuring their permanent residence in the lower-echelon of the division
    6.) Have Hank say something dumb in the press, for shits and giggles
    7.) Assassinate Barzini, Tattaglia, Cuneo, and Stracchi to finish my consolidation of power
    8.) Steaks and blowjobs

    • Tom Zig

      All the Sox will do this offseason is leak rumored trade proposals to the media. With none of them being true. If Theo actually called Jack Z it would turn into a game of “who can hang up the phone the fastest”

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Agreed. Felix is a pipe-dream. Remember that 6-for-1 rumored deal for Halladay? Buchholz, Bard, Masterson, Hagadone, etc. etc.? Double it if you want the King.

        ——————————

        Hey, you know who would look good in a Sox uniform, though? Roy Oswalt. You heard it here first.

        Sincerely,
        Richard Justice

        • Tom Zig

          But I look forward to hearing about these ridiculous trade proposals.

        • jsbrendog

          you know who would get shelled in the al east due to age and nagging back injuries?

          roy oswalt

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Agreed.

            • http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2009/08/08/soxyank6__1249712396_8566.jpg Mike Pop

              They could always go and sign Brad Penny and John Smoltz again!

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                Ridiculous depth. Envy of the league.

                • Tom Zig

                  Brad Penny and John Smoltz could easily win more games than CC Sabathia and AJ Burnett.

                  Oh and don’t forget Junichi Tazawa was the smartest signing in the offseason.

                • Andy In Sunny Daytona

                  They could easily win more games than CC and AJ!!!

                • Andy In Sunny Daytona

                  Damn you Tom Zig, Damn you to HELL!!

                • Tom Zig

                  I just stomped your yard.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  Tom Zig says:
                  I just stomped your yard.

                  OH SHIT SON, ANDY YOU JUST GOT SERVED!!!!

                • Andy In Sunny Daytona

                  I’ve been busy with a very special project.

                • jsbrendog

                  it’s on

                • Jack

                  OH SHIT SON, ANDY YOU JUST GOT SERVED!!!!

                  http://smartassery.com/wp-cont.....Served.jpg

                • Andy In Sunny Daytona

                  I’m Taking It To The Streets, Son!!

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  I’m Taking It To The Streets, Son!!

                  Bandleader at Homer and Marge’s second wedding: Hey, who likes the Doobie Brothers? ‘Cause, we got one of them!

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G54lfxiid_w (safe)

  • Tom Zig

    I was listening to ESPN Radio yesterday (I know shame on me) and some callers kept saying that Girardi should be fired if we get bounced out of the first round. I couldn’t help but shake my head in disappointment.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      In Michael Kay’s defense, he was banging the callers for being stupid. He thinks Girardi getting run on the heels of this 100+ win regular season would be ridiculous, and he’s right.

      • Tom Zig

        I wasn’t bashing Kay, I actually like his radio show (not his baseball play-by-play skills). I was going to raise that point about him, but you beat me to it.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          I’M FAST LIKE TEH NINJA

          • Tom Zig

            I’m fast as lightning bro, betta use ya nikes bro

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Get in that ass, quick fast, like Ramadan

  • mryankee

    I think Girardi’s best work has been with the bullpem, having faith in more than two or three guys has paid off. Instead of in the past years when the Ynakess had MO and then maybe one or two others Torre would use. This team has 4-5 guys who can be effective. Staying with DROB when he was struggling is something I am not sure Torre would do and that has a huge benefit for the team. I am ok with extending his contract. Unfortunatley because of Mike Sciossa he wont get manager of the year, but still very good job to date.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      I think Girardi’s best work has been with the bullpem, having faith in more than two or three guys has paid off. Instead of in the past years when the Ynakess had MO and then maybe one or two others Torre would use. This team has 4-5 guys who can be effective. Staying with DROB when he was struggling is something I am not sure Torre would do and that has a huge benefit for the team. I am ok with extending his contract.

      Agreed on all points. +1.

      Unfortunatley because of Mike Sciossa he wont get manager of the year, but still very good job to date.

      Eh, who knows. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. Individual awards are dumb anyway, the BBWAA constantly picks the wrong guy. I think Girardi probably wins it, but anything is possible.

      • mryankee

        I read your recent post and I personally feel two plyers who should not be traded 1: Joe Mauer and 2: Felix Hernandez. Joe Mauer because of what he means to the city of Minneapolis and The Twins organization. I bet the fans there would burn the new stadium down if he were traded. 2: Felix Hernandez because whatever team would aquire him would have to give up I would think their top five prospects. He will be 25 when he is a free agent so he is worth the wait for two years. Seattle would have the same issue withtheir fanbase as Minnesota would.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          … I have no idea what the hell any of this has to do with anything at all.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur

          • mryankee

            see your post 10/1/9-12:22pm-you mentioned Felix and I wanted to address that point.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Then respond there, and try to keep it more on topic.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Also: my comment about Felix was in jest.

              Keep that in mind as well. It was one small joke in a larger post about Hal, Girardi, and the Yankee offseason. So, don’t go creating a superserious tangential conversation based on one throwaway joke.

        • Tom Zig

          That came out of left field

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Just like Hideki Matsui.

            • jsbrendog

              i chuckled

      • jsbrendog

        i know the angels had a tragic death and all but its not like theyre the only team who had serious injuries. i mean, the yankees were without arod for a month plus and their #2 starter had an era of over 20 and has been out the whole year. their dominant lefty reliever (who is being wasted as a matchup guy) has been out 75+% of the year their first baseman dealt with a wrist injury for a couple months limiting his production, their starting rf went out for the season before the first month ended and didn’t posada spend some time out with injury as well?

        handing it to scosia or however you spell it outright is acting like they had the mets level of injuries. granted, again, a guy died, but in all seriousness shouldnt it go to someone like washington who, regardless of his team faltering at the end, stayed in it and outperformed what everyone thought they would do for more than 3/4 a season?

        • mryankee

          Here is the argument for Sciossa, they lost their best young pitcher. They also trmendous injuries in teh starting rotation in the 1st half, Lackey-Santana-etc. They overcame those injuries and the tradegy towin a very good division handily. If not Giradi or Sciossa the dak horse for me wuld be Gardenhire. Look how close they came without Morneau and essentialy they are a poor mans Angels, with no real big time starting pitching.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Do me a favor, please:

            Type slower.

        • mryankee

          Pardon my last post with spelling issues. I think Gardenhire might actually steal the award.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Thanks.

            Yeah, he might. Can’t put anything past the BBWAA.

            My ballot:

            1) Girardi
            (decent-sized gap)
            2) Scoscia
            (big gap)
            3) Ron Washington
            4) Gardenhire
            5) Jim Leyland

            I’m more impressed with what the Rangers have done than what the Twins did. Nobody expected the Rangers to be competitive, and they were in the Wildcard and AL West hunt until the final two weeks. They turned a bunch of youngsters into a quality pitching staff, played great defense, and had a quality club.

            • Mike HC

              Yea, but the award is not called “the most underrated manager/team before the season started award,” which is kinda what it has turned into. Yankees had the best regular season team by far this year, coming off a year when they missed the playoffs. If a Yankee manager can’t win it this year, its not going to happen for a while.

              And yes I see that you also like Girardi for the reward. I was just commenting off your “Nobody expected” line, even though you probably just threw that out there without thinking too hard about it.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                The fact that nobody expected the Rangers to be good is what makes Washington the 3rd best manager.

                Not the #1 best.

                • Mike HC

                  I feel you. I’m just saying expectations are too much of factor when evaluating manager of the year. Just because people didnt expect the Rangers to pitch well does not make Washington a better manager because of it. Washington didn’t make them pitch better than expected. It has more to do with the fact that humans have no idea what is going to happen in the future.

                  If anything, he should be downgraded because their offense is so talented, and one would expect that with the pitching they go this year, they would make the playoffs. But they didn’t

            • mryankee

              My argument for Sciossa and Gardenhire as follows. Of course it would be nice if Girardi won.

              1-Gardenhire: loss of 2nd best player on team during pennant race.
              2-not one real big time starting pitcher
              3-Came back from dead to almost catch Detroit. Which to me is more impressive as opposed to Texas who kind of choked at the end of the season.

              2-Sciossa
              1-loss of Adenhart
              2-loss of two of their better pitchers, Lackey and Santana for much of the 1st half of the season
              3-Still won the division handily with a lousy closer (fuentes) and a very game Oakldn-Seattle and Much improved Texas team pushing them’
              4-the abilityto instill a national league style of play and for getting his star players to fal in line with that syle.

    • Tom Zig

      Staying with DROB when he was struggling is something I am not sure Torre would do and that has a huge benefit for the team

      You’re right, D-rob would have been in purgatory for the entire season. Only to see the light of day in blowout games

      • mryankee

        Now the way DROB is pitching not only is he an asset for ths playoffs, he could slide right into Hughes spot in the bullpen, thus Hughes into the rotation.

        • http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2009/08/08/soxyank6__1249712396_8566.jpg Mike Pop

          +1

        • jsbrendog

          please god yes.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          mryankee, you are definitely born again hard. Hell, I may even allow you to serve as a rifleman in my beloved Corps…

          • mryankee

            Of course if he gets the credit for those decisions-Do you hold him in anyway accuntable for Joba-or is that chalked up to innings limits, young pitcher’s expected struggles, and like Lester who struggled at 23 y/o next year will be Joba’s breakout?

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Girardi was in an impossible position with Joba. He was limited to 150 innings, but management (Girardi AND Cashman) didn’t have a good, well thought out plan as to how to get those 150 innings without burning him out a month early.

              It’s a black mark, but they’re kinda learning on the fly here. I’m not happy with it. If we repeat the error next year, I’ll grow more concerned, but for now, what can you do?

              • mryankee

                I would expect nect year to be a big year for Joba he should have his velocity back. He should now have a better idea how to pitch not just throw. If the innings and pitch limits are lifted he could have a huge year. If that is the case then Girardi and Cashman were right. The point on Lester cannot be lost I saw him get lit up a ton when he was Joba’s age, same command issues and velocity was not 95-96 like now.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  I’m talking about next year with not just Joba, but more significantly Hughes and Kennedy.

                  We need to better anticipate the ramifications of innings limits. I don’t want to see us doing the silliness we did with Joba in August and September next year with Hughes or Kennedy. If they have innings limits that will indicate they need to the shut down, they should either be shut down or have their year delayed at the start.

                  We may have lost Joba as an effective weapon for this postseason because we didn’t plan ahead well enough.

                • mryankee

                  True enough, but with they way the bullpen is going now, maybe Joba should be shut down. Unless you know he can be what he was in 2007-what is the point? The other problem would be if Joba gets so pumped up and tries to overthrow after the increase in innings, then what is the injury risk?

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  Good points.

                  That’s why I don’t want this to happen to Phil Hughes in 2010. Let’s not repeat our errors.

              • Ed

                I think Cashman and Girardi had a plan in place for Joba. Just not a plan that could withstand the team needing to use it’s 10th or so option for starting pitching and have 6 relief options not work out (Marte, Bruney, Edwar, Veras, Albaladejo, Melancon).

                It’s hard to have a plan that can withstand that much going wrong.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  I’m not so sure I agree with that.

                  Even if all those pitchers were still healthy, the Joba plan was still to have him make all his starts and just “skip his turn in the rotation” to get him to the finish line with innings left to play with. That plan seems like very, very wishful thinking. I don’t think the injuries really affected the 2009 Joba plan.

                • Ed

                  Well, I don’t think Joba in the postseason was ever a given. Early in the season, the team was very vague about his postseason role. I think they were considering moving him to the pen or even not using him at all.

                  The team indicated in the preseason that they’d treat him like a normal 5th starter and skips starts on occasion, which didn’t really happen – which I’d guess is because it would’ve meant having guys like bad Wang and Mitre pitch more.

                  I also think that if they had an effective Wang or Hughes in the rotation, shutting Joba down completely would’ve been considered.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  Good points.

            • jsbrendog

              joba chamberlain next year:

              18-8 4.07 era 8:1 k:bb ratio

              bookmark it now

              • mryankee

                I am with that-at 24 that would work.

              • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                I’ll say it again:

                Joba and Phil will combine for 5.0 WAR in the rotation next season.

                • mryankee

                  Of course we mention Joba and Phil and we forget to mention Wang. I dont blame Joe at all for Wang clearly he never fully recovered from his 2008 Injury and thus weakened him this year. The question though is what happens with Wang, especially if Andy returns.

                • Jersey

                  I would take that in a heartbeat.

                • jsbrendog

                  wang will not be healthy enough to pitch until well into the season and my bet is he is not god enough in aaa during his rehab to warrant consideration for anything other than injury insurance.

                  that is if he is even on the yankees next year.

                • mryankee

                  That would be sad if he goes, but maybe a decent return can be had for him if he has a decent spring. The Yankees could always upgrade the rotation via f/a as well. Small deal for a Harden type.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  Exactly.

                  2010 CMW will be like 2009 IPK. If we get a few innings from him in September and he’s not a total disaster, we should be thankful.

                  If he’s on the team at all.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  That would be sad if he goes, but maybe a decent return can be had for him if he has a decent spring.

                  No, he probably won’t even be throwing by the spring. If he does, it’s likely only long-tossing on flat ground.

                  He won’t be ready that soon. And he has zero trade value until he can get back on a mound and look solid.

                • jsbrendog

                  No, he probably won’t even be throwing by the spring. If he does, it’s likely only long-tossing on flat ground.

                  He won’t be ready that soon. And he has zero trade value until he can get back on a mound and look solid.

                  plus again he might not be in a yankees system by spring. they would have to either give him his arb money and pay him his 6 mil or so or cut him and convince him to sign a minor league deal or something.

                  he might leave if they do and sign a guaranteed deal somewhere else

              • Mike HC

                hahaha … the expression is “book it”, not “bookmark it,” but maybe you can start a new thing

                • jsbrendog

                  i know what the expression is. i said bookmakr it as in bookmark this page and that comment.

      • Mike HC

        I like DRob, but I think some RAB commenters are greatly over exaggerating his value for the playoffs. He really should never see the light of day in the playoffs and I think that is how it is going to play out. He will get an inning or two here or there if it is absolutely necessary or if the game is a blowout either way. That is the only way you are going to see him

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          He really should never see the light of day in the playoffs and I think that is how it is going to play out.

          That’s ridiculous hyperbole.

          I’ll agree with you that it’s premature to think that DRob can slide right into the 8th inning role and replicate what Phil Hughes is currently doing, because he’s just not that good of a pitcher, but he’s a damn fine reliever, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with giving him high-leverage playoff innings.

          If you think DRob shouldn’t see the light of day in the playoffs, you must have hated watching Jeff Nelson or Mike Stanton during the title years, because all three of those guys are the same caliber of relief pitcher.

          • Mike HC

            I think you are a little premature in putting DRob on the same plane as Nelson and Stanton during the glory years. We also did not have better options. This year we have Hughes and Ace and maybe Joba ahead of DRob. I just feel like those guys plus a lefty can handle all of the high leverage relief innings

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          Why do you think that?

          • Mike HC

            I think that Mo, Hughes, Ace, and lefty specialist should all see the mound before him. I would also trust Joba before him if Joba ends up in the pen. Mo, Hughes and Ace can all get more than three outs. That should be all we need in most cases. I like Roberston, but during the playoffs I don’t think you should go that deeep into the bullpen unless it is really needed or if it is a blowout.

            This has also been his first real, kinda full year in the bigs, and he has been a bit inconsistent and has had some control problems. Again, I like him, but I don’t think he should be trusted in the playoffs this year. ONly time will tell though

            • Mike HC

              His WHIP for July and August was 1.55. In September he has pitched well, but only for 3.2 innings.

              I like his long term potential, just not for this year during the playoffs.

  • http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2009/08/08/soxyank6__1249712396_8566.jpg Mike Pop

    I’m a fan of his. No problem to wait it out for the extension though, as long as he doesn’t get fired if the Yankees fail in the playoffs. Cause that just would be ridiculous.

    So, sure, wait it out. No biggy here.

    • Bob Stone

      +27