2008 yankees, 200anything Blue Jays. Great bullpens, no playoffs.

Here’s my suggestion:
If, in his ages 26-28 seasons, he can average 175 innings of sub-4.30 ERA, he is, barring injury, a starter. Forever. That is wayyyy more valuable to a team than any level of awesome relief, no matter how much fun those relievers are to watch. Joba would unquestionably be more effective out of the bullpen. So would CC Sabathia, Andy Pettitte, Josh Beckett, Jon Lester, and just about every other pitcher ever.

Alfredo Aceves is a good example of this, in my opinion. This is a guy who could probably give you, in a full season, at best, slightly-below average starting (170 IP, 5+ERA). In the bullpen, he is about as valuable as a reliever can be. His WHIP is Mo-like, his ERA not far behind, and he can be used in multiple roles to almost the same level of effectiveness.

First of all, no relievers pitch that much. Second of all, if they were starting, they could impact 10-18 innings per week, which is better and more valuable than 5-6.

And yes, I make my determinations early in a person’s career. You either have “it” or you don’t very early on. “it” doesn’t just come on after a while, especially after the league has seen you for a few years and the scouting report is thicker. Can anyone deny that both have “it” as relievers?

So basically you would’ve given up on how many pitchers over the years? Most guys don’t come in and just click in the rotation right away. It takes more than one full season of starting to determine whether a guy can stick there or not.

Also, you act like this “let’s keep the training wheels on” approach doesn’t hurt us. When we got two guys who cant even get past the 5th with any consistency in our rotation, it kills our bullpen, something that comes back to bite you eventually.

The “training wheels” approach is going to help the team in the long run because Chamberlain isn’t going to be worn out next year and be more open to injury, which would hurt the team more than short starts.

I think he had more wins than Joba. Think that can happen year in and year out?

Did Aceves only get wins during games which Chamberlain pitched?

Also, if you want Hughes and Chamberlain in the bullpen next season, who do you trot out to start? CC/AJ/Andy/Gaudin/Mitre? With a rotation like that, the bullpen won’t matter.

Fastball + changeup. Still not enough for most guys.

I make my determinations early in a person’s career. You either have “it” or you don’t very early on. “it” doesn’t just come on after a while, especially after the league has seen you for a few years and the scouting report is thicker

There’s a certain lefty with an amazing double entendre name who never posted an ERA+ over 110 until he was 29, a full 5 seasons and 1100+IP in the majors, and then exploded into one of the greatest lefties ever.

http://www.baseball-reference......ra05.shtml

Give him time

Go with Chris(t).