Oct
21

More Heyman, more Holliday

By

The Yankees are still chasing their 27th World Championship, but that won’t stop the hot stove from warming up. After hearing that Matt Holliday’s top choice is the Yanks over the weekend, today we fhear rom a Yankee official – via Jon Heyman – that “I’m not absolutely positive we’re going to go for (Holliday).” Me? Well I’m not “absolutely positive” they should go for Holliday either. He’ll be too damn expensive, and there are just too many concerns about his ability to thrive in the American League. It’s a costly gamble, but the Yanks surely could afford to take it.

115 Comments»

  1. Tom Zig says:

    Think he’ll take a 4yr deal?

  2. Mike HC says:

    I would rather have both Damon and Abreu for far less than Holliday. Obviously, if Damon and Abreu want a ridiculous offer, then maybe look at Holliday, or a Swisher like trade (easier said then done)

    • …or a Swisher like trade (easier said then done)…

      Here’s the guys I think could possibly be those “Swisher-like trade”, where a player is on a down year/has fallen out of favor + has a decently sized contract they’d want to get out of (but not so titanically large that we wouldn’t touch it, like Vernon Wells or Magglio Ordoñez) that would equal the player being available at a fairly low prospect cost.

      Brad Hawpe, COL (2010-7.5M, 2011-10M clubopt/500k buyout/playeropt)
      Jose Guillen, KC (2010-12M)
      Bill Hall, MIL (2010-8.4M, 2011-9.25M/500k buyout)

      All three have both roadblocks to being moved and/or obvious red flags. Hawpe is atrocious defensively, and while Fowler-Gonzalez-Spillborghs makes him superfluous and thus moveable, he’s not disliked by the organization and probably doesn’t have enough of a contractual heft that the Rockies would feel forced to move him.

      Guillen is eminently available, but has regressed mightily and doesn’t profile as a bounceback guy like Swish. He’s also a well known asshole and a legit clubhouse cancer (unlike ARod, who’s just an imaginary clubhouse cancer.)

      Hall is primarily an infielder but could play LF just as he plays 3B: poorly. And, ironically, while he’s got a big contract, it’s actually cheap for the Mariners, because the Brewers are kicking in about 7M of his 2010 salary.

      I don’t see another Swisher in this offseason. Everybody else besides these 3 are either contractual albatrosses that we’d never touch, or are youngsters still in arb years that either wouldn’t be moved or would only be moved for a decent prospect haul.

  3. Hmm… a 5/100 for Holliday, or a 25-30M deal of some sort for Aroldis Chapman?

    I’ll take Chapman, reup Damon on a one year deal, and kick the LF can down the road for a year. The 2011 LF may be Carl Crawford, or AJax, or Montero, or even Jeter, for all we know.

    Sign the younger, (relatively) cheaper big-upside lefty and stash him in the minors developing, bring back Johnny Rightfieldporch, and keep our options open for a deeper FA class a year from now.

    • Tom Zig says:

      Where is the sign up sheet for this?

    • Andy in Sunny Daytona says:

      Co-sign to this, holmes.

    • The Three Amigos says:

      Sounds about right. It wouldn’t go with Cashman’s theme of trying to shed some payroll. Over the next few years we have lots of money coming off the books and there is no use wasting some of that flexibility on Holliday, when there are cheaper alternatives and better ways to spend the money.

    • Randy A. says:

      Im right there with all of you. The possible options in the 2011 offseason along with Chapman >>>>>>>>>> Holliday

    • Reggie C. says:

      According to MLBTR , Chapman is in NYC today meeting with several GMs. Hopefully Cash leaves Chapman’s camp impressed with the Yankee commitment to winning.

      IF it came down to signing Holliday or Chapman, i’d go the Chapman road too. JD is a 1 or 2 year stop-gap. He’d fill it admirably and since he’s been resistant to injuries , I think he’d still produce above-avg seasons for a bit.

      Its a MAJOR risk though. There’s no guarantee Crawford hits the market. There’s no guarantee Ajax develops much more power; not making him an ideal corner OF. Guys are signing away arb years like candy all over. Lets just hope Medchill, Mack, or Heathcott offer something of an option in a couple seasons.

      • Andy in Sunny Daytona says:

        Unless he signs for well below market value, I don’t think there is anyway Tampa signs Crawford to an extension.

      • Januz says:

        I would prefer Chapman to Holliday. But it is very possible they could sign BOTH and still save money (Letting Damon, Matsui, Nady, Pettitte and Molina go). Chapman would essentially be the first round pick they will lose if they sign Holliday.

        • You’re creating five holes (at LF, DH, SP, 4th OF, and backup C) and only plugging one of those 5 back up (LF).

          The 4th OF and backup C holes can be filled with cheap youngsters, but we’re still going to need a DH and a 5th starter in your plan, and those players won’t be cheap youngsters, they’ll have to be ML vets who make money. Also, you’re leaving out arb raises.

          If we add Holliday, our total payroll is probably going up next year when it’s all said and done..

          • Januz says:

            I am NOT in favor of signing Holliday. I certainly think that replacing Matsui or Damon, Molina (With Cervelli), Bruney (With Melancon),and especially Wang and Nady will not hurt this team in the least.

      • Its a MAJOR risk though. There’s no guarantee Crawford hits the market. There’s no guarantee Ajax develops much more power; not making him an ideal corner OF.

        Yes, it’s risky. (So is signing Holliday, though. But I digest.)

        If AJax stays in center (which is my preference) and we don’t move Jeter to LF (which I’m interested in trying) and we keep Montero behind the dish (which I’m 1,000% committed to) and Crawford is traded somewhere and signs an extension, taking him off the market, by fallback plan is:

        B) Jayson Werth on a 3/24-30 Raul Ibañezesque deal
        C) Johnny again, if he’s holding up
        D) Marcus Thames or Coco Crisp on another kick-the-can-down-the-road-again one year deal
        E) Make a trade if there’s one to be made

        • JMK aka The Overshare says:

          You digest? Digress? Anyway, to the substance of your options:

          Werth is certainly not a bad idea, and I’m not saying he isn’t a proven player, but he’s only been good for the past two seasons and he’ll be turning 32 in 2011. Say he maintains the level of production he had in 2009, do you expect him to take a 3/24-30? I think he’d take a longer deal, and from the Yankees view, that will probably be too much.

          Johnny seems like a logical choice, again, provided he’s able to move around in a few seasons. Despite Boras’ Mengele prophecy, it’s unlikely Damon will be able to play the field in 2011. He looks terrible out there now and that’s with the body of a 30-year old.

          Thames is a poor fielder and his bat wouldn’t play well at Left. Crisp doesn’t have the bat to play Left, either.

          A trade sounds like a nice idea, provided Jeter isn’t in LF or Montero is moved, and Crawford isn’t on the radar.

        • Arman Tamzarian says:

          I like the idea of Werth, but I don’t think he’s a free agent

      • toad says:

        Going with a stopgap rather than signing Holliday might actually increase the chance Crawford hits the market.

        Not a big deal maybe, but he’s surely going to be looking around to see who might come after him hard before he decides.

    • wilcymoore says:

      Positively, absolutely agree with this.

    • Free Mike Vick says:

      Chapman is a no-brainer….way to much upside to pass up on. I figure Cash is at a strip joint with young aroldis right now talking about contract details.

    • Marcos says:

      I like this, the only problem is the Chapman part. What I’ve heard about Chapman makes me like him a lot, but I personally prefer Yusei Kikuchi a whole LOT more. He seems to have as much upside, he seems to have better mechanics, he’s younger (and guaranteed to be 18) I like Kikuchi’s personality above almost any pitcher out there, and I think that Kikuchi has better breaking stuff as of right now. Now, don’t get me wrong, I would jump on the bed like a 6 year old if we get Chapman, but if I had the Yankee Checkbook, I’d go after Kikuchi.

      Just my 2 cents

  4. Zack says:

    Heyman hears from the Yankee official that he’s 100% they’re going after Holliday- yet Heyman still lists Yankees as the #1 place for Holliday to land.

    So basically write what you want, and ignore sources when they go against you.

    • Zack says:

      he’s not 100%*

    • Short of a reliable source saying there’s no chance the Yankees will go after Holliday, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with Heyman saying he thinks the Yanks are the most likely destination for Holliday.

      • The Three Amigos says:

        True, but all those rumors that Heyman is in Boras back pocket may shed more light on this and this could all be Boras driven to maximize his clients worth. Holliday would make sense for the Sox.

        • That’s all well and good, but there’s still absolutely nothing wrong with Heyman, on 10/21/09, saying he thinks the Yankees are the most likely destination for Holliday. He’s not ignoring any salient information, I bet that 8 or 9 out of 10 journalists would name the Yankees as the most likely destination for Holliday if they had to choose one. The Yankees have the most money, a history of signing the most high-priced free agents, and quite possibly a need for a left-fielder. There are more than enough reasons for Heyman to reasonably put the Yanks on top of that list of possible destinations.

          (Personally I don’t think the Yanks will sign him, but there’s still nothing wrong with Heyman thinking they will.)

          • Point being… I know it’s fun to call the MSM out when they do something retarded, but it’s just not (yet) warranted in this situation.

          • Reggie C. says:

            I think he stays in the NL. My money is on the Giants meeting his contract length demands. That said … if the Cou-pons in Queens realize they need to make a splash, they’ll make the winning run for Holliday’s services; even with that crappy home park.

            • dkidd says:

              are the mets going to move those fences in? david wright had 615 plate appearances and 10 home runs. how many hitters would sign up to play in astrodome part two without being overpaid?

            • I bet the Mets buy Lackey and Figgins rather than Holliday. They need help everywhere.

              • dkidd says:

                it will be interesting/revealing to see if the wilpons spend any money this off-season.

              • Paul says:

                Figgins isn’t a bad idea for the Yanks either, especially since he could help rest A-Rod too.

                I say Figgins and Hermida and that’s the off-season.

                • Meh, I see little functional value or use for Figgins. He’s not young anymore, he’s not defensively flexible anymore, he’ll be overpriced.

                  A desperate team (like the Mets) should sign Figgins. We shouldn’t. If I’m going to give a multi-year deal to someone for LF this winter (and I don’t want to), I’d rather gamble big on Holliday than gamble small on Figgins.

                  Pass.

                • whozat says:

                  Figgins is definitely a bad idea. He last played LF four seasons ago, and he played like…26 games there or something.

                  He’s also 32 or so, and has a skillset that will likely turn him into a low-OBP singles hitter pretty quickly.

                • JMK aka The Overshare says:

                  Essentially, Cristian Guzman without the ability to play a premium defensive position. Pass.

                • Essentially, Cristian Guzman without the ability to play a premium defensive position. Pass.

                  Nah, I’m certain that Chone Figgins can play 2B. He looks like a quintessential Yankee second-sacker.

                  Sincerely,
                  Michael Kay

                • Paul says:

                  But, but, but he needn’t be a starter everyday in LF. Sure, it depends on the contract. Three years @ $21-24 mi tops. Fangraphs has him as worth $26 mil this year and at least $11 mil each of the two years before that. With that OBP I’d also have no problem with him hitting leadoff.

                • JMK aka The Overshare says:

                  TSJC—Guzman plays SS.

                • JMK, you’re missing the joke. Think of Michael Kay and what he always says about Chone Figgins. It’ll come to you.

                • JMK aka The Overshare says:

                  Goddamn, I’m squishy-face slow tonight. I need a vacation (which I sort of get; I’m spending Halloween and WS in freakin’ Raleigh, NC on business. Exciting Raleigh. Can’t wait :().

                • Hit up some Duke, UNC, NC State, and Wake Forest halloween parties and make it a weekend of sexing up college coeds dressed like various slutty superheroes, slutty nurses, slutty vampires, or slutty sluts.

                  Or, hit up all the area AutoZones and make it a weekend of sexing up tire salesmen dressed like various tire salesmen.

                • lou says:

                  you guys are crazy

                  we should be thrilled with figgins

                  he offers a new dimension to our offense that we don’t currently have. even in a bad year figgy steals 40. he taught himself to be a gg caliber 3b in just a couple years and with his athleticism there is no doubt he would be great in cf

                  you lose hr’s with him but you more than make up for it with his run scoring production and obp

                  guy is a stud and much better than holliday (an nl product) for the price

                • Sleepy Carl says:

                  But he’s horrible in the playoffs!!!!!!!!!!!!

                  /generic fan overreaction

                • Glen L says:

                  Figgins also lead the league in caught stealing (17x’s), thereby negating any positive value his successful steals had over the course of the season.

                  Moreover, his OBP is about 50 points higher than his career norms … in a contract year … color me surprised.

                  Some team is going to be very upset 2-3 years into signing a .710 OPS guy for 10mm a year over 4 years

                • lou says:

                  negating his value? he also succeeded 42 times and that is a down year for him. and that is on a team that relies on stealing to score. on a yanks team you can rest assured that he would take fewer chances but succeed more as well

                  he is also a known workaholic and great clubhouse guy that improved his ops the year they added abreu and began to emphasize obp. sounds to me like a guy who can do whatever he is asked.

                  if anyone of you had watched angel games on a semi-regular basis (as i do being a west coast yankee fan) instead of making assumptions based on a quick glance at his stats and only watching him play when he is playing the yanks, you would clearly see his value. as he goes, so goes the angels offense and that is not just this year, but the last 3 years.

                  i guess we will see in 2-3 years but i have a feeling whoever signs him is going to be very, very pleased. i’m not sure it will be us, but i would be thrilled if it was

          • The Three Amigos says:

            Fair enough.

  5. E-ROC says:

    Why would there be concerns about him hitting in the AL? His time with the Athletics was cut short because of a trade.

  6. Paul says:

    I don’t like Holliday, especially since signing him and letting Damon/Matsui go means their lineup is very, very righty-heavy and with Montero and Jackson on their way.

    Personally, I’m looking at Jeremy Hermida as a trade target. He’s 25 and lefty and getting expensive for them. His road OPS is good enough too while he gets killed at home.

  7. dkidd says:

    make montero a left fielder?

    spend the holliday $$$ on pitching

    • Reggie C. says:

      The day the “Montero-in-LF” argument gets any semblance of legitimacy is the day Montero actually snags flies in a game. This offensive prodigy could start the season in Triple A … and by all likelihood , he’ll be in Triple-A before the ’10 season is over.

      Lets not kid ourselves. He’s a catcher. If not, he’s a DH.

      • dkidd says:

        if he can’t make it as a catcher, why not try him in left before consigning him to a career of dh-ing?

        • whozat says:

          We won’t know if he’s “made it” as a catcher for a couple years yet. So, either you were advocating moving him NOW and deciding to bump him to the bigs next April, or your comment was irrelevant.

          Which is it?

          • dkidd says:

            i have no idea if montero can play left, but the “catcher or career dh” dichotomy seems extreme for a 19 year old. if damon can fill the lf gap for 2 more years (assuming we pass on holliday/crawford) could montero could be an eventual solution?

            • I agree with you that it’s too soon to write Montero off as a DH.

              That being said, it’s also too soon to try Montero in LF. He should be tried there if he can’t catch as a big leaguer, but he’s certainly not in our plans as a big league leftfielder for at least 2-3 years.

              Ironically, by the time he’s ready to be a leftfielder (after his bid to be a catcher fails, if it does fail), we’ll probably already have a new longterm leftfielder, even if it’s not Holliday.

            • Reggie C. says:

              Its not really extreme Dkidd.

              Montero will turn 20 yrs old next month and he’s staring a half season at AA to start off 2010. Maybe the org pushes it up a notch and gives Montero the AAA spot. You never know.

              He’s simply blown too fast up the ladder to make the switch. Its not happening at this point. It is inconceivable for the organization to pull the switch at this point when Montero could likely be improve alittle more behind the plate. So if its not happening now … when is it gonna happen?

              • dkidd says:

                this makes sense. i forget how much of an outlier this guy is. it’s good problem to have: a prospect so offensively gifted that he forces his way to the big leagues before he has time to learn a position

                i can’t wait to see this man hit!

    • Stryker says:

      didn’t we already spend a shitload of money on pitching?!

      • Well, if the “spend the holliday $$$ on pitching” comment refers to spending it on Lackey, I’ll agree that that’s a bad idea.

        If it refers to spending it on Chapman or Kikuchi, a young project pitcher with considerable upside, that makes sense and is smart.

        • dkidd says:

          chapman! i’d love to be proven wrong, but doesn’t it seem likely that aj will miss significant chunks of time before his contract is up? not saying we need pitching “depth” like the red sox this year, but if chapman is the real deal, spend the money

        • JobaWockeeZ says:

          But what about Halladay??
          It’s funny, I thought that the low chance of that happening was already established after the trade deadline…
          And with pitching the last concern with the Yanks this postseason I don’t know why Halladay remains so popular.

          Yes he’s a beast at pitching but he’ll probably want a long expensive contract for his decline years. No thanks.

          Though I’m all for King Felix and the return of CC should he opt out.

          Although it heavily depends on how good Phil and Joba is.

          • CC and AJ under contract + Joba, Hughes, and Kennedy in the organization + other quality young arms behind them = no need to trade prospects for a frontline starter (ANY frontline starter) for the foreseeable future. Not Halladay, not anyonw

            If CC opts out, we replace him with King Felix (who conveniently is an FA that same offseason).

            We buy starting pitchers, we don’t trade for starting pitchers. With our successful business model, it’s bad strategy.

    • Spaceman.Spiff says:

      As TSJC would say, kick that LF can down the road. More flexibility for the team roster is important going into the next few years with Posada, A-Rod, Jeter, Teix so locked into our immediate future.

  8. JM says:

    Io voglio il Left-Fielder di Carl Crawford.

  9. Free Mike Vick says:

    i like Matt Holliday…

    i don’t think i like Matt Holliday 5-6 years worth though…

    • The Artist says:

      Yeah, I think he makes more sense for someone else.

      But that 2010 FA market for LF is awful. Unless they plan on moving Derek out to LF in 2011, I don’t see where we’ll be getting an LF from.

    • That’s it exactly. Thank you for putting it so excellently.

      If I could get Matt Holliday relatively cheap, or on a relatively short duration contract, I’d be willing to gamble on his mix of potential upside and his red flags.

      If I have to pay him heart-of-the-order money for 5-6 years, those red flags scare me too much, especially given our lack of compelling need and roster composition/flexibility issues going forward.

  10. JM says:

    Voglio il giocatore del campo di sinistra, Carl Crawford.

    /Fixed myself. (I know, it died)

    • JM says:

      Aaaaaand I failed at replying to my own comment… Such is my life…

    • scott p says:

      If you want an out of box idea here you go. I would trade whatever is needed for Joey Votto. He is a stud offensive player who should be able to defensively play Lf. To do this I would take on Chad Cordero’s entire contract to give the Reds payroll flexibility along with sending Miranda, Aceves, McAllister, Pena and more if necessary. Cordero becomes my very expensive setup man but with Votto costing barely above the minimum the cost is the same as Damon this year. Next I would make a Deal for the psycho Milton Bradley. Bradley should be able to be gotten on a nice discount just like Swisher last year hopefully the Cubs will take Marte plus for him.

      Jeter
      Bradley
      Teixeira
      Arod
      Votto
      Posada
      Cano
      Swisher
      Gardner

      CC
      AJ
      Joba
      Hughes
      Pettitte

      Mo
      Cordero
      Robertson
      Melancon
      Coke
      Dunn/Kroenke
      Kennedy

  11. Drew says:

    5 yrs/ 82 mil, he can opt out after the 3rd year. I wouldn’t mind that.

    Eh, just checked some of his stats. His away slugging % scares me. I guess it would be a risk worth taking but I’m kind of indifferent to the Yanks decision. Cash will do what’s right for the team.

  12. mustang says:

    I think Holliday is too expensive and I don’t like his defense. I think they are going to get Mike Cameron as patchwork until they see what they have in Ajax or until Crawford hits free agency.

    They had interest in Cameron the last few years. Yes he is old and strikes-out a lot, but he is cheap, an above avg. defender and had a .420 OBP against southpaws this year.

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      I like his defense with his 2009 UZR/150 being 3.2

    • Cameron is another decent stopgap.

      I’d prefer Damon, but I wouldn’t complain about Cameron.

      • mustang says:

        You can have them both for less then Holliday in $ and years.

        I don’t love Cameron strike-outs, but .250-24-70 in the Yankees line-up is not horrible.

      • Camilo Gerardo - your inception? fuck perception, go with what makes sense says:

        what i guess that the FO does: Sign JD, let Mats go, Pettitte retires, sign Xavier, another corner bat that may be able to play center..? Cameron, Ankiel, Hermida? make a bid on Aroldis, other Int FA’s, blow out “first year player’s draft” again, have an ear on Craw-daddy dealings.

        I want to see if JD can bulk up some more and get some opposite field power

    • mustang says:

      Also throw in the fact that you know CC is going to put in a good word and he is a good club house guy from all reports.

  13. Jerkface says:

    The true swisher trade is getting Milton Bradley from the Cubs to be DH

    • matt s says:

      Was just going to say the same thing.
      He could be had for very cheap, and a lot of his attitude problems were blown out of proportion in chicago, plus he would be motivated to prove them wrong.
      And exciting to watch when he does eventually blow.

  14. Mike bk says:

    Marlon Bryd as a FA for 2 years if he would take it or maybe a Josh Willingham trade since he will get a raise to probably around 5 mil in arbitration.

  15. Eric says:

    I’d rather see them go after another SP (although it looks like we’ll try to sign Cuban defectee Chapman) than gamble on Holliday. I think Matsui probably walks, Damon gets resigned and plays DH, and would hopefully field a better defensive outfield.

  16. [...] adding Matt Holliday to the Yankees lineup has its fair share of detractors and supporters, from Anthony McCarron, we learn that the organization could have added Holliday to [...]

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