Oct
31

Rosenthal: Maybe starting Gaudin isn’t such a bad idea

By

I don’t know when it became uncouth for a team to throw their starters on short rest in the playoffs, but everyone and their mother feels compelled to write an article about how the Yankees should start Chad Gaudin to make sure CC Sabathia, AJ Burnett, and Andy Pettitte can finish the series on regular rest. Nevermind that Gaudin has thrown just 2.1 low leverage inning in the last 33 days, nevermind that lefties hit .296-.408-.415 off him and Philly’s lineup could have as many as six lefties in it, nevermind that for Burnett and Pettitte it would assuredly be their last start for five months, nevermind that it’s a freaking World Series. Save them for a start that might not even be necessary.

Just start CC, AJ, and Andy in Games 4, 5, and 6. One start each on three day’s rest won’t kill them (two for Sabathia if it goes to Game 7), and those guys at even 75% is still better than Gaudin at 100%. Charlie Manuel made the mistake of starting Joe Blanton in Game 4, so don’t repeat. No mercy.

Categories : Asides, Playoffs
  • Andy in Sunny Daytona

    It would also be a good time to get Mitre on the post-season roster so he could get some work in too.

    • Steve H

      Is Igawa still on the 40 man, maybe we can get him going too. As I said the other day, I like Gaudin, but starting him against this Phillies lineup is a guaranteed loss, that would also likely blow out your bullpen. I’d rather see them try to get 3 innings each out of Joba and Ace and then go from there than to see Gaudin start. And that isn’t an option either, it’s CC/Burnett/Pettitte’s series to win.

  • Camilo Gerardo – your inception? fuck perception, go with what makes sense

    No prisoners! ah-ooo

  • http://www.stonerh1@aol.com Bob Stone

    No brainer. You have to go with your best guy on three days rest, ESPECIALLY when he’s proven he can do it successfully.

    • whozat

      That’s not the argument, though. it’s not just about CC vs Gaudin. It’s everyone on short rest vs mixing Gaudin in somewhere.

      The right answer may still be everyone on short rest, but it’s not as simplistic as you’re making it.

      • Riddering

        A.J.’s proven he can do it in the past. After his performance on Thursday night and vocal willingness to start on short rest, why would you not do it?

        Andy might be a concern but I’d rather have Andy go 4-5 innings in a World Series start than Gaudin. You’re a lot more likely to hand the ball off to the pen with a lead than a deficit.

        • whozat

          Yes. I agree with you. CC, AJ and Andy all on short rest is the right thing to do.

          However, it’s still the case that the calculation is not “there is one game to start, and the choice is CC on short rest or Gaudin for the first time in 22 days.” The answer to that question is blatantly obvious, but that’s not the choice with which the team is confronted.

      • bonestock94

        It’s definitely that simplistic. Nobody in their right mind would start a rusty mop-up pitcher that gets hit hard vs. lefties against a team loaded with lefty power hitters.

  • Mike R

    I think we should get Aceves a start. He hasn’t gotten a start in even longer than Gaudin, and that’s not fair. If I were his parent I’d be very disappointed in Girardi for not letting my son play.

    I think we should go to LLWS rules, and make sure that every player gets to play in every game.

    • tim randle

      and, by extension, CC has to have 27 days of rest because of his pitch count

      :)

  • ShuutoHeat

    Anything out of Rosenthal is bad/false/stupid and should not be taken seriously. If a doctor was to cut him open right now, an endless amount of shit would spill out on to the floor.

    So yeah back to the topic, if you had a choice between having someone that you can count on always out there to help you…I’m sure you would too. That’s why the employees that are good/reliable get more shifts/hours. Plain and simple as that.

    • Steve H

      Rosenthal and his wife must giggle at all of the nonsense bullshit they can come up with and get printed.

      • http://www.nomaas.org/images/pedro_daddy.jpg Joe D.

        Rosenthal and his wife the rest of the Lollipop Guild must giggle at all of the nonsense bullshit they can come up with and get printed.

        Glad to be of service.

  • will

    What happens if the game is rained out tonight? I think that Gaudin ends up pitching Game 5 or 6. Also, I think they might have CC pitch tomorrow, so he would be available for a Game 7.

    • http://inthemasses.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/mad-max-poster-1.jpg gxpanos

      Are you saying that if the game gets rained out tonight, then Gaudin pitches game 5 or 6, or just in general you think Gaudin will go this series?

      Becuase if it rains tonight, I think you go CC-Pettitte-Burnett-CC with Burnett on regular rest and Pettitte on extra rest; even if Joe still goes Pettitte tomorrow and CC goes on regular rest for game 4, Gaudin may as well fly home if it’s rained out tonight.

      I think I got that all right.

      • whozat

        That doesn’t work right. If the game is rained out tonight, there’d be 5 games in a row, right?

        11/1 Game 3 – CC on short rest
        11/2 Game 4 – Andy
        11/3 Game 5 – AJ on normal rest
        11/4 Game 6 – ????
        11/5 Game 7 – ????

  • http://dinosaursneverexisted.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/melky.jpg Drew

    I have a hard time taking anything SGNJ says seriously.

    CC can and will start.

  • Accent Shallow

    If the Yankees are going to use a fourth starter this series, I’d rather see Joba or Aceves than Gaudin. Shit, Marte starting might be a better idea than Gaudin, since he can get lefties out.

    • Andy in Sunny Daytona

      Agreed. It’s not like lefties hit Gaudin hard, a .415 SLG against, isn’t terrible. It’s just that he seems to be afraid to throw strikes to them.

      • whozat

        Probably because he doesn’t have a good pitch to use, so he either nibbles and hopes they don’t make good contact or he throws strikes and they pound the ball.

  • Riddering

    Yeah, the thing about starting Gaudin is…you’re saving Andy, A.J., and CC in case the series go to 7 games? I’d rather Girardi manage to win each game than to keep the series alive as long as possible.

  • justin

    I don’t approve of this post as starting Blanton in game 4 has yet to become a mistake for Charlie Manuel. Even though I am not particularly superstitious it is still uncomfortable to pre-empt anything. We have not won that game yet, even though it gives us a favorable match-up I have seen stranger things than the Yankees getting shut out by pitchers they otherwise would demolish. I believe they should start Andy, Burnett and CC again on 3 days rest because of their track records with 3 days rest and the lack of an attractive alternative. I agree with you it gives us a much better chance of winning than throwing out an underused and underwhelming fourth starter. While, on paper, it may be a mistake for Manuel to start Blanton in game 4, as Jeter and our dear friend Rebecca always say, that’s why they play the games. Let’s win that game, as we should, and then start talking about it being a mistake for Charlie Manuel.

    • Sweet Dick Willie

      Starting Blanton is a mistake.

      Now, that doesn’t mean he won’t win – he might. But even if he wins, it is still a mistake to start him.

      You make the decision with the information you have now, and that information is that Cliff Lee, even at 75-80% of his best is still better than Blanton.

      Now, Manuel might start Cliff Lee on short rest and he might lose. But that doesn’t make it the wrong decision. You can’t wait until after the fact to determine if the decision is right or wrong.

      Sometimes you make a good decision and get fucked. That’s life. Shit happens. But sometimes you make a bad decision and suffer no adverse consequences.

      As I said, I think starting Blanton in game 4 is a mistake, but as a Yankees fan, I couldn’t be happier.

  • pc

    when something looks so obvious its more then likely to not be so.

  • Tom Zig
  • JSquared

    Hey Rosenthal… IT’S NOT GOING TO GAME 7!! LOSER!!

  • TheZack

    YOu never ever sacrifice a game in the world series. Never. And thats what starting Gaudin is, a gimmie for the Phillies. Terrible idea.

    • JeffG

      One could also say you run a chance of sacrificing two starts if you send guys out on short rest that are not up to the task…

      • TheZack

        But, they are up to the task. AJ has proven. So has Andy. Its one game. You don’t worry about what happens after, you worry about them giving you the innings THEN.

      • Sweet Dick Willie

        One could also say you run a chance of sacrificing two starts if you send guys out on short rest that are not up to the task…

        One can say anything one wants to say, but that doesn’t make it so.

        And who says they would not be up to the task? AJ has a good record of pitching on short rest, and said he would look forward to it.

        I would certainly rather have that than giving Guadin a start. That is doubly dangerous, because not only would the Phillies likely pound him, but you could burn through the bullpen and screw yourself for the next game.

  • JeffG

    If it were my decision. I would start CC short and follow him with Gaudin to give AJ and and Andy a better chance to win their games. If Lee comes up with another performance like he did the first go you probably lose AJ’s start anyways if he is not 100%.
    Kind of like Jimmy Connors in the US Open. You give up the forth set to have the strength to win the match.

    • Z

      I agree, if Yankees are up 3-1.

      I don’t have a problem giving the Phillies Lee’s start (by starting Gaudin.) Assmuing we only need one more win, and can get it from either a rested AJ or Andy against the rest of the Phillies starters.

      • JeffG

        The only case I wouldn’t do it is if the Yanks were down 3-1. Hoping that is not the case.

      • Tom Zig

        Starting Gaudin against the Phillies is suicide. He’ll only go like 3 innings, and then we’ll have to burn our already shaky bullpen. Not only that but he’ll give up a bunch of runs and allow Lee to pitch more aggressively and allow Philly to rest their bullpen.

    • Andy in Sunny Daytona

      If Gaudin pitches game 5, then Pettitte doesn’t pitch again unless he pitches in relief. No way that Andy starts game 7 if CC is available on 3 days rest.

      • JeffG

        I would rather give AJ the best chance to win and two starters (with Andy on rest able to give you innings if it were to come to game seven.

        • TheZack

          How is AJ going on three days rest, when he’s never lost doing so, not as good a chance to win? Do you know that AJ will be worse on three days rest? Good AJ vs. bad AJ has absolutely nothing to do with how much rest he has.

          This is the same type of strategy as holding your closer “in case” they get a lead in a tie game on the road and then losing it before he ever pitches, aka, 2003 WS.

    • TheZack

      This is exactly the opposite of what this post is about. You don’t save your starters for starts that won’t happen. If Andy doesn’t go on three days rest, he’s not going again as CC would go game 7. Game 7 might not happen anyway. You don’t lose the world series with your scrubs on the field, you win or lose with your best. Period.

      Its nothing like giving up a set in tennis, you are talking about basically giving away game 5 of the world series. How is that a good strategy?

    • Girardi out to the mound

      The “if Lee comes up with a not another performance” is a big IF, or at least to me it is. The guy is not idk Clemens, Pedro, or Randy Johnson in their primes. He is a great pitcher and he pitched a great game but I certainly do not expect him to completely shut down this Yankee lineup again.

  • Salty Buggah

    When I read that article last night, I almost facepalm’d.

    “Few would think he was right.

    I’m not sure he would be wrong.”

    That just screams bad idea if Rosenthal says that.

  • http://www.nomaas.org/images/pedro_daddy.jpg Joe D.

    Gaudin?

    Please.

    Sucka got no juice.

    /Ken-Z’d

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

    Oh this is too funny.

    Perhaps best known as Briefcase Model No. 26 on ‘Deal or No Deal,’ Clubine was introduced to Buchholz by Donald Trump at a party after a UFC fight in LA. “There were a bunch of players there, and Donald walked me over and said, ‘Hey guys, this is Lindsay and she’s single.’ He literally threw me to the wolves. Clay and I hit it off and the friendship just grew.”

    Classic American romance story.

    http://tinyurl.com/yc2a3tb

    • Tom Zig

      Buchholz is a pretty goofy looking dude. Not quite sure what the ladies see in him, he must have pretty good game and wads of cash.

    • steve (different one)

      that’s not fair, he thought the briefcase was a laptop case

      /too easy

      • ShuutoHeat

        too easy indeed

  • Omar

    Sergio Mitre is a better option than Gaudin against the Phillies, Gaudin gets killed by LHH and the Phillies could field as many as six. BP has written articles about the four man rotation and that starting on three days rest as long as the PC is kept at a reasonable level ~100, they should be fine with the three man rotation. At anyrate, Phillies in six.

  • Tank Foster

    I can think of scenarios where I’d like to have Andy available to relieve in a game 7, but I don’t think you plan for games that might not happen. I wish Gaudin were a little better, or Aceves was at the top of his game and could be counted on for 3-4 very good innings, then I might consider it.

  • TheLastClown

    Rosenthal is a FOX employee.

    Gaudin starting (assuming of course the Yankees are up) = more probable Philly win, and thus, more broadcasts & ratings for FOX.

  • Girardi out to the mound

    If Pavano can pitch effectively on 3 days rest, I am sure Pettitte is up to the task. It is very rare that Pettitte does not keep his team in the game even when he is not his strongest or does not have his best stuff.

    Also just to add, Rosenthal is freaking moron. Maybe if he stopped his long pauses between every word he would have more time in the day to think about how stupid it is to sacrifice a game in the WS.

  • gargoyle

    Unless they are down 3-1, starting Burnett on 3 days rest (game 5) in Philly is a stupid idea.

    • Sweet Dick Willie

      No, starting Chad Guadin on a month’s rest instead of AJ on short rest is a stupid ideda.

      It’s the World Series! Always go with you best, and AJ, even at 75-80% of his best is >>>>>>>>>>>>> Guadin.

      Why in the world would you EVER spot the opponent a game in the WS?

    • steve (different one)

      yeah, what are you basing this on?

  • Tom Q

    Were any of you around in the 2000 post-season, the one time Joe Torre tried a three-days-rest regimen? The memory of Andy’s start in that first round deciding game is still with me — the Yanks had scored 6 runs in the top of the first and seemed in firm control…till Andy gave up 5 in the bottom of the first. Somehow the team held on, but Torre dropped the experiment — giving Denny Neagle (losing) starts from there on, but winning most of the other games and taking the championship on standard rest.

    I’m fine with CC going tomorrow, but, if we were to be up 3-1 then, I’d give Gaudin game 5, to set the rotation normally from there, the way Torre did back then.

    • gargoyle

      Even at 2-2 I’d go with Gaudin in game 5. It’s not agiven they lose that game and even if they do they Lee is not out of the rest of teh series and the matchups favor the NYY for games 6 and 7.

      CC on thre days rest is one thing. AJ and AP on 3 days rest is another (not good) thing.

      Gaudin has to make a start.

      • Tom Zig

        Gaudin has to NOT make a start

        fixed

      • steve (different one)

        and what if it rains after game 5? you’ve handed Philly a game and set up Lee for game 7.

    • steve (different one)

      The memory of Andy’s start in that first round deciding game is still with me — the Yanks had scored 6 runs in the top of the first and seemed in firm control…till Andy gave up 5 in the bottom of the first

      not trying to be a dick, but this didn’t quite happen as you remember it:

      http://www.baseball-reference......0080.shtml

      • Tom Q

        It’s never dick-ish to get facts straight. Obviously my brain condensed the nightmare.

        But I don’t think it negates my overall point. 5 runs in 3 2/3 doesn’t match up to “Andy at 75% is better than Gaudin could possibly be”. We’ve established that CC can do the three-days-rest thing without instant decline; for some guys that’s not the case. (Clemens also sucked wind on three days in that Oakland series…then threw two of his best postseason games on regular rest vs. Seattle and the Mets) I’m just very wary of watching Andy try something at which he’s already done pooorly when he’s nine years older.

        It’s not an easy decision, overall; Joba’s innings limit has reduced our options to the iffy or the more iffy.