Nov
28

Celebrating a Halladay weekend

By

Much as 2007 was the Winter of Johan, 2009 is shaping up to be a Very Merry Halladay. (OK, OK. I’ll stop with the bad puns now.) We’ve heard all about how the Blue Jays are making Roy Halladay available, how the team is willing to trade him within in the AL East and how they want a Major League-ready arm and bat as well as other prospects in exchange.

With these demands as a starting point, then, it’s little wonder that Joe yesterday expressed his belief that a trade would not be consummated any time soon. No team is going to be too willing to give up two cost-controlled players for one year plus the right to (over)pay Halladay for a few more years. If the Blue Jays want to turn Halladay into something younger and cheaper, they are probably going to have to reduce their demands.

But there is another wild card in these negotiations. What of Halladay? When the Jays’ ace signed his three-year, $40-million extension in March 2006, Toronto granted him a full no-trade clause. Alex Anthopoulos can talk until he is blue in the face, but unless Roy signs off on the deal, he ain’t goin’ nowhere.

Last night, we learned that Roy Halladay appears willing to waive that NTC for the Yanks. Bob Elliot, a Toronto-based sports writer, fills us in:

Will Roy Halladay leave Toronto via the same route as ex-Blue Jays aces David Cone and Roger Clemens?

…It has always been a possibility. Now that chance has been upgraded. “I don’t know who Toronto will wind up with,” a major league executive said Friday. “I don’t know when he is going and I don’t know where he’s going. But I do know that Halladay has told the Jays he’ll approve a trade to the Yankees.”

…Halladay has never said yeah or nay to the Yanks and still hasn’t, but this third party news clears the decks for Halladay to follow the path of Cone and Clemens.

Halladay, reports Elliot, has already said that he would block trades to both the Twins and Rangers, among others, and he feels that this news opens up an avenue to New York for the Jays’ ace. Still, though, if the price remains Jesus Montero along with either Joba Chamberlain or Phil Hughes and other prospects — or simply Jesus plus one of those two pitchers — it’s too steep a deal, too high a price for the Yanks. Brian Cashman has held on to his blue chips through thick and thin, through Johan and a bad 2008. He won’t change course so soon. Across town, Elena Gustines and Jay Schreiber of The Times urge the Mets to take Vernon Wells with Halladay, but the Yanks shouldn’t even consider that move.

Meanwhile, while Halladay remains a big name out there, the Marlins may have thrown a wrench into Toronto’s plans. John Perrotto, via Twitter, says that he “keeps hearing” that the Marlins are “very willing to trade Josh Johnson right now for the right package.” Joe Frisaro, the beat writer for the Marlins’ official site, disputes that notion. I am of the belief that any player is generally always available for the right price, and if the Larry Beinfest gets a good offer, he won’t hesitate to pull the trigger.

Now, we’ve gone on record with our interest in Josh Johnson. He has the stuff to succeed in the AL East, and his peripherals suggest he will. He will be just 26 come Opening Day 2010 and figures to have his peak years ahead of him. If the Yanks are going to sell some of the farm on a pitcher this year, I’d rather see them go after Johnson than Halladay. Both, it seems, are available, and the Hot Stove machinations are starting to heat up.

Categories : Hot Stove League
  • Chip

    There’s absolutely no way the Yankees give up more than Hughes or Joba for Halladay and I really hope they keep to that. I mean in next year’s free agency you’re looking at Beckett (how hilarious would that be?), Lee, Halladay (if no trades come along) and possibly a revitalized Webb on the market. I’d rather wait and pay just money and “settle” for a Cliff Lee or something. Plus, next offseason might have some great trade possibilities with Johnson, F-Her, Cain, Carpenter, Verlander, and Edwin Jackson all a year away from free agency.

    • Evil Empire

      Let’s play a game!

      Which pitcher listed in the post above does NOT belong?

      • Slugger27

        lol ya i thought the same thing

    • paul

      I agree.. The Yankees need to sit back and let the market for Halladay come too them. If I am Cashman I give them the following take it over leave it deal: Bruney, Coke and Austin Jackson. If the Sox get Halladay they have to pay Beckett next year. That will pose a problem.

  • Hobs

    I too would also rather trade for Johnson.

    • DB

      +1

  • http://pinstripepalace.blogspot.com/ Brien Jackson

    I’d like to get Johnson too, but here’s something I was thinking about when this came up last night; assuming the Marlins aren’t interested in Joba or Hughes, which I doubt they are, what do you do with the rotation? Let Pettite go? Start Hughes out in Scranton? Not that I think that makes it a deal that shouldn’t be done, just something else to think about.

  • http://thetundrablog.blogspot.com/ Jake H

    Montero should only be traded for Johnson. Halladay gets 1 of Joba, Hughes along with Romine, McAllister and Robertson or Melancon. That is it. It get’s them a top of the rotation potential guy, a guy who could stay at catcher along with a mid to back rotation guy and a key setup guy. That hall is a lot better then the Twins got.

    • Andy in Sunny Daytona

      Montero should NOT be traded at all.

      • Jesus Montero

        agree ^^

        • Andy in Sunny Daytona

          See? Jesus loves the RAB.

    • raymagnetic

      I’m thinking more along the lines of AJax, Kennedy, Miranda, ZMac, and someone else not named Montero, Hughes, and Joba.

      My reasoning is that Toronto would be silly to keep Halladay and hope that

      A)A team who doesn’t pick between 1-15 signs Halladay next year, and
      B)the prospects they get will be anything near as good as that package

      With that package they get 4 players who will be in the bigs this year or next plus another highly touted prospect.

      They get 2 major league bats, 1 major league starting pitcher, and 1 near major league starting pitcher.

      If I’m Cashman that’s the dream I’m selling to the young GM in Toronto.

  • John Adams

    If we can get josh johnson now thats a smart win win trade for both teams.

    • Camilo Gerardo – your inception? fuck perception, go with what makes sense

      pending package, no?

  • crapula

    if we’re putting joba and phil in the starting rotation or trading one of them for a starter, we need to keep DRob and not trade him.

    • crapula

      sorry this was meant to be a reply. I’m rusty! How many days to pitchers and catchers???

  • http://newstadiuminsider.com Ross

    Ugh. I was thinking that RAB would never sink to the Halladay wordplay. Guess I was wrong…

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski

      Yes, we’re such terrible people for posting a Halladay article in the middle of a Saturday. Excuse us for writing about one of the prominent topics of the day.

      • whozat

        I think he was just complaining about the pun (the “wordplay”)

      • http://newstadiuminsider.com Ross

        Joe – I was referring to the puns. All of the MSM (and mainstream bloggers) had resorted to the puns referring to Halladay and the Thanksgiving holiday. I was commiserating that RAB went down that road…

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph Pawlikowski

          Ah. Pardon for being overly sensitive to criticism of topic.

          But hey, imagine if we were discussing Matt Holliday…

          Apologies, again.

  • Crazy Eyes Killa

    I’d include Montero to get Johnson, Not Halladay

  • Januz

    The Rolling Stones have a song titled “Time Is On My Side”, that is exactly what Cashman has. He does not have to mortgage the future for Halliday, Holliday, Damon, Lackey, Bay, or anyone else. Keep in mind, he said NO to a Santana trade, because he felt the price was too high, and essentially sacrificed 2008 for a chance to sign Sabathia, and win in 2009. If he was willing to do that after not winning since 2000, he is certainly willing to do the same thing, being the defending champions.
    Nothing will happwn on Halliday unless the price drops to about .25 on the dollar.

    • OldYanksFan

      Agreed. The Yanks have a lot of big/long contracts on the books, and they need a number of ‘free’ players just to keep payroll at $200m. A Halliday trade not only adds another big/long contract, but costs us the (free) kids we need on our roster.

      Over the next 4 years, the Yanks can probably only afford 1 or 2 big FAs. One will be an OF’er. We all should take more care when looking at these kind of commitments.

    • steve (different one)

      well, depends how you look at it.

      i’m ok with the patient approach, but the 2009 yankees featured huge contributions from Pettitte, Mo, Posada, and Jeter.

      time is definitely not on those guys’ sides. except for Mo, who is a robot. but you know what i mean.

      those guys are going to be almost impossible to replace.

  • kenthadley

    if we need a SP that bad, why not just sign Lackey? There isn’t that big a difference between Halladay and Lackey (admit Roy is the better pitcher)….but not that much of a difference to justify 2-4 primo kids……..Pettitte will sign, so we still sit with 4-5 young possibles for the last 2 spots……no reason to reach…..Johnson or King Felix are different stories…..

    • http://sports-odds.com/images/stories/yankees-arod-teixeira.jpg JobaWockeeZ

      True. But the Yankees don’t need a starter that bad. So meh. No Lackey.

      • http://sports-odds.com/images/stories/yankees-arod-teixeira.jpg JobaWockeeZ

        UNLESS Pettitte doesn’t sign.

        • Evil Empire

          Yeah if Pettitte retires than Lackey could be a possible consideration. Him or … Joel Pinero I guess.

        • paul

          Andy will not retire. The alternative too him not playing would be to be home with wife and kids.

          • kenthadley

            kudos, paulie…..of course andy will sign….how many humans would reject 10-12 mil to play one year for the Yanks at the age of 37…..not andy pettitte…his mom didn’t raise no ignoramous……..

    • http://pinstripepalace.blogspot.com/ Brien Jackson

      “isn’t that big a difference between Halladay and Lackey”

      Yeah there is.

      • Crazy Eyes Killa

        Lackey- FA Money > Halladay – (FA Money + Prospects)

        • Mike Pop

          Maybe. But I’d rather have Halladay. More of a game-changer.

          Plus, if the Yankees did get Halladay, they wouldn’t give up Montero AND Joba or Hughes. Don’t buy that at all.

        • http://pinstripepalace.blogspot.com/ Brien Jackson

          You’re out of your mind.

      • kenthadley

        where? check the numbers……is the difference worth Joba/Hughes and 2-3 other promising kids????? nfw

  • dch

    Halladay has proven he can win in the AL East-what would his record be if he piched in the NL? if he didn’t have to pitch against the Yankees and Sox? Josh Johnson is a good NL pitcher-what happens when he has to pitch against a 9 man lineup instead of some pop gun NL lineup. You can make an argument that Halladay over the last 5 years is the best pitcher in baseball. I would also note Halladay on the Yanks drops Burnett to #3 slot. I know we just won the WS but I have no faith in Burnett in crunch time or not going on the DL multiple times in the next few years.

    Not trying to be chicken little here but how many more years do we have Jeter, Posada, Rivera and Pettite together-hell there is a small chance Pettite doesn’t even come back this year. We have maybe 2-3 years with this bunch left. Even at their relatively old age they are still the core. A-Rod is getting to his mid 30s, Cano has shown his total lack of plate discipline renders him average at best in crunch time. Lets put the pedal to the metal and run off another 1 or 2 championships in the next 3 years. A trade for Halladay and a 3 year contract-takes pressure of the defense and relievers-we can easily let Matsui go. Keep Damon for 1 year, bring up Austin Jackson, start using the DH spot for Jeter, Posada, A-Rod,Damon. Maybe towards the end of this year or next year-bring up Montero.

    • Evil Empire

      Ehh while I disagree with a bunch of what you’re saying, I do agree with your core point that this team is built around a core of very good, but well-past-peak-age players and its important to go for it while the gettin’ is still good.

      That said, Josh Johnson is as good or better than Doc Halladay in 2010 and he will project to continue to improve while Doc Halladay will project to begin a decline. JJ has the pure stuff to legitimize him as a top tier pitcher and playing in the NL East does not negate that fact.

      Its worth it to make a trade for either player, but it makes more sense to pay the higher prospect cost in order to get Johnson.

    • Camilo Gerardo – your inception? fuck perception, go with what makes sense

      that’s fine and great as long as how you assume, we have jackson, Montero, Hughes/Joba as well as halladay when the dust settles

  • scoopemup

    Ivan Nova will a BIG story sometime next year,hopefully for us.

    • JMK aka The Overshare

      Tell us more, Baseballdamus.

  • Roy Halladay

    I just wanna go to a winning team already sheesh!

    • Pasqua

      Hey, you’re currently on the winning-est Major League Baseball team in Canada! Don’t be such a glory hog!

  • Evil Empire

    I was talking about this a bunch yesterday but I’ll throw in my opinions again, this is a fun topic.

    For Doc (and the contract extension window) I’d trade:
    1 of Joba/Hughes/Ajax
    + 1 of anyone else (excluding Jesus Montero)
    OR
    Montero straight up

    For JJ I’d trade:
    Montero
    + 1 of Joba/Hughes/AJax
    + work out whatever other random pieces made sense

    Montero’s value is so high right now because we can still sell him as a catcher. If he grows out of that position than the organizational need for him decreases significantly and his trade value goes down. If you can cash in on a commodity like him for the right player, I wouldn’t hesitate to pull the trigger.

  • Pasqua

    With a championship in our back pocket, why the Yanks would feel the need to pull the trigger on this is beyond me. With all the excitement surrounding the futures of Phil / Jesus / Joba, and a championship-caliber team still in place ( + / – a few pieces that can still be tinkered with) it just seems a little nuts to invest the talent and money in Halladay…so that we can do, again, what we just did without him.

    • Pasqua

      And I should clarify that part of my thought-process has to do with the fact that, while Doc’s pitching his ass off now, the next contract will include his declining years. That REALLY doesn’t interest me.

    • steve (different one)

      the 2010 yankees are very unlikely to be as good as the 2009 yankees as presently constructed.

      the yankees got almost perfect health from a bunch of very old players.

      they will need to make some moves just to tread water.

      i am not suggesting they HAVE to get Halladay, but banking on a repeat without making improvements seems a little too optimistic.

      • Pasqua

        True ‘nuf.

  • Boogie Down

    Why not get both?

  • dch

    You can’t rest on your laurels. You always have to be upgrading. Everyone is a year older and after winning a championship sometimes there is a bit of “relaxing”. Again at the end of the 2012 season-Posada,Rivera and Pettite will all probably be gone. A rod- will be 37 or 38. Damon and Matusi will be long gone. Halladay on the Yanks gives us 1 or 2 more championships. We will have Jeter at almost 39 and probably in left field, Cano-hitting well during the season and doing pfft in the playoffs and Tex. Hell, we should try and trade use Cano for trade bait. I would rather have a guy that is a good fielder and hits .280 all the time with a little pop than Cano.

    • Evil Empire

      I predict we will have Rivera past 2012. Po and Andy will almost certainly be gone though.

      A-Rod will be a very fucking awesome 37 or 38 year old. He’ll dependably triple slash .280/.380/.500 or better for the next 5 years.

      The hating on Cano seems pretty arbitrary and ridiculous. The kid had a great season and then got ice cold in the playoffs. Oh well. The guy still has monster potential. He got 204 hits and 25 HR this season, while playing in 161 games. And he plays an acceptable 2B. How often do you get that production from SECOND BASE? He’s 27 years old – 4 years younger than Chase Utley. What more do you want? Honestly.

      • Mary Behr

        Can’t we express our opinions without using bad language????

        • Evil Empire

          We can, but we choose not to at times. I mean no harm, madam. It is the internet and some people tend to include expletives in their messages.

    • Mike Pop

      I would rather have a guy that is a good fielder and hits .280 all the time with a little pop than Cano.

      So you want a Robinson Cano with less power to replace Robinson Cano?

      • http://www.retire21.com Mike R . Retire 21

        He wants a grittier, less lazy version of Cano. Less power and a lower BA, but with hustle and dirt on his uniform.

      • Andy in Sunny Daytona

        ..and hits for less average.

        • Mike Pop

          One of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen.

        • Camilo Gerardo – your inception? fuck perception, go with what makes sense

          yea, no credibility there

    • Crazy Eyes Killa

      dch is alex gonzalez?

    • JM

      -28

  • Reggie C.

    Halladay is likely more gettable than JJ. The price tag is going to come down once Anthopolous realizes that 1 of Joba or Hughes trumps the talent he’d get from a draft pick. a 37 yr old should still be pretty damn good. He’s gonna age well.

    • Reggie C.

      I meant Halladay at 37 should still be pretty damn effective.

  • dch

    Dude, I have watched Cano for how many years now. He never frigging walks, no speed on the bases, number 6-8 hitter who can’t bunt, his fielding has gotten better. I think what we are going to see is a guy who hits great against average pitching and flounders against good pitching. He disappears in the playoffs. Yes he had a good year, which was partly because everyone on the team had a pretty good year. If I remember last year he had a not so good year. The whole issue of his not being a focused player has been around since Torre and Bowa were here-it is nothing new. Give me someone with a good glove, better speed and who has their head in at bats all year long. I will take the lesser average.

    • DSFC

      He can’t bunt???? HORRORS!

  • TheLastClown

    Well, I don’t want to trade for either of those two.

    No hate for Doc or JJ, they’d make great Yankees, but I don’t want to part with Joba/Hughes/AJax/Montero.

    That being said, gun-to-my-head Sofie’s Choice type scenario I’d go for Doc, because all the leverage is in Cash’s corner. The Marlins are going to be able to demand a ton for JJ, & rightfully so.

    The Jays’ backs are against the wall. If Doc only has a short list of teams for which he’ll play, and will only play for an extension, they’re going to have to settle for less than their demands.

    • Mike Pop

      Very good point. Something I didn’t consider very much.

  • Kanye West

    Roy, I’m really happy for you, and Imma let you finish, but Jesus Montero is the best catching prospect of ALL TIME! ALL TIME!

  • CJ

    I agree. However, I would like to see the Yanks empty the farm for Josh Johnson, Curtis Granderson and Edwin Jackson…Jesus Montero, Joba or Hughes, Austin Jackson, Romine, Kennedy, Mccallister, Gardner…et al. The Yanks need to get younger and cheaper, they do not necessarily need to bring up from the farm. Let Johnny walk, bring back Matsui and Andy for 1 year and play Mekly in LF.

    No Hallady, No Holliday, No Lackey

    • JM

      I would never “empty” the farm, especially for Granderson and Edwin Jackson. Johnson I am all for as long as Montero is not lost, but why get rid of good young players for Granderson and Jackson, both of whom I think are overrated (Granderson is useless Vs. Lefties and Jackson broke down in the 2nd half) and that our young guys could have much more impact and value? I just don’t see why.

  • CJ

    In fact, I bet Granderson and edwin Jackson can be had for AJax, Gardner, Kennedy, Mccallister, Coke
    Josh Johnson for Jesus Montero, Robertson, Romine and a low level high ceiling prospect

    leaving Yanks with Joba, Hughes, Josh Johnson, Edwin Jackson…now that’s young power arms

    • steve (different one)

      please stop.

  • CJ

    Granderson had one awful season vs. LHP, great LH power in YS, speed and the best center fielder in NY since Bernie c. 1996. Grandy is a proven commodity on the field and off Ajax is not!

  • JM

    Johnson can’t be had…

  • Greg

    Just cos JJ is younger doesn’t mean he’s in Halladays league. Look at off season 2003 and vazquez n schilling