I disagree so we can agree to disagree there and just move on. Fair enough.

–He’s played on the major-league level, yes. Not very well, though. I’ll admit I’m not particularly up-to-date with Brandon Wood. His power appears to be prodigious. He had 21 errors in 2008, in the minors and 9 in 100 games in 2009. The dude is going to be 25 starting next season. Why is it taking him so long if he can hit 30 homers and play gold-glove defense? I genuinely don’t understand. Suppose all of what you say is true, he’s a guy that can be their starting SS and hit 30 home runs. Sounds like a good piece. I’ll grant you that. I’m not sure it’s the case, but we’ll go from there.

It took him so long because the Angels didn’t have a ready-made place for him and they were hoping the extra instruction would cut down on his k’s. I am pretty up to date on him living in LA. Is he a superstar? Nope, but I think Adam Dunn production offensively with ARod defense at 3B is a fair enough projection. Or he could be a below average defensive SS with 30 HR power. Either is still valuable.

–They would never take Mathis. Never. No reason to mention it. Let’s focus on Napoli. He has some similarities to Posada, sure. But Jorge is a far more complete hitter than Napoli, though Napoli has better power. The D, again, is REALLY bad. Maybe they take him. We don’t know how the Jays value the catching position in terms of O vs. D. He’s also not a young guy, which may be something they’d want.

Agree mostly here but I would argue that Jorge is obviously more complete because he has played the game A LOT longer. Napoli is not a spring chicken, but he is also not old and still in his arbitration years. Good placeholder at catcher until their prospect is ready to move him.

–Yeah, I never said anything about that. But yes, Adenhart’s death hurt. Moreso than Joba or Hughes? Maybe. Both Joba and Hughes have ace potential, like Adenhart, but both our guys were more experienced and have played bigger roles. So I don’t know about that.

Sorry I wasn’t clear here. I brought up Adenhart because he was that young, close to teh majors pitcher that they now lack. I think it hurt than more than Joba or Hughes because we have 2 of hose guys. The Angels had one. That was my rationale.

–Not sure they’d think Santana is all that great. Really inconsistent. Kendrick? Sure, but they have Aaron Hill. Montero has a serious flaw, no question. Jackson’s k-rate is alarming. He profiles as a good, not great player. Joba and Hughes profile as possible ace-types and have been able to play well on the big stage. They are easily better than any pitchers the Angels throw into a deal.

They may not love Santana but he is a guy they can plug into their rotation tomorrow that has pretty amazing velocity. Similar to having a major league ready prospect. The Jays experessed interest in Kendrick during last year’s trade deadline with the idea that they would move him to 1B next to Hill. Otherwise I would not have mentioned it. I agree with you on Joba/ Hughes, but following your flaw argument, neither has shown the ability to be a consistent starter as of yet. Both have struggled while in the regular rotation for one reason or another. As a Yanks fan, do I think they have ace potential? Damn right I do and I would think HARD before trading either. Just pointing out that sometimes we are quick to point out other teams’ players’ flaws while ignoring our own. Natural to do but I think we may be doing it here.

–All of this is based on the assumption they’d trade him and find those players attractive. There are many reasons they might not find those players attractive. Of the top of my head, perhaps Texas would be interested in assembling a package. The Braves might, and FWIW, I think the Dodgers and Yanks could also put together competitive packages. We have no idea what the Jays are really looking for. Maybe they see Montero as a corner fielder filling power, Jackson as a good CFer and Hughes as a #2 starter as more attractive than Wood as a great-hitting, okay fielding SS, Napoli as a poor D, good O catcher, and Walden as a high-upside pitcher. Maybe not. We don’t know.

You’re way too sure of things you shouldn’t be.

Agreed, I am assuming. But what I am trying to point out is that the Angels likely have more options than most other teams. That is what makes a trade more likely…options. Don’t like this guy because he doesn’t play great D? Well, we have this guy that doesn’t hit quite as well but plays better D. Don’t like that one, well how about this? That is how deals get done more often than not. My point is that the Angels have a better ability to do that than most other teams, ourselves included. Maybe they are so enamored with our guys that they love them even though they don’t play positions of need. Maybe you are right. But we don’t have many fallback alternatives. I think the Angels do, which is why I think they may be the ones to get it done.

The Jays have made it pretty well known that they are seeking Infielders, Catchers, and Pitchers for Halladay.

The Braves could put together a decent package but not sure they have the money to sign him long term. It takes both. No way the Rangers or Dodgers can do something that big with their ownership issues in flux as they are. I do agree that they would have the prospects though. The Yanks could, I agree, but I voiced my concerns above. The Red Sox could if they offer more pitching and less infield.

Not too sure. I admit I may end up being wrong. Just pointing out that those that think the Angels are doomed to mediocrity without Lackey as they were stating above, might not have considered why they might be wrong.

Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough, if so, my bad. What I mean by serious flaw is that their abilities aren’t so much greater than their flaws that they make an attractive enough package for Halladay. If you disagree, so be it. Some of your points are spot-on. Of course no one is the perfect player; I didn’t make that argument, though.

Wood K’s a lot. So does Ryan Howard. So does Austin Jackson. Wood has also played on the major league level and can hit 30 HR’s. He has a very solid glove at SS (just not as good as Aybar) and a plus glove at the corners. If he struggles at all it is because he has moved so much. 30 HR’s, a pus glove, versatility, witha rookie salary scale? Yes, I think the Jays would find that pretty attractive as a PIECE to a Halladay deal.

He’s played on the major-league level, yes. Not very well, though. I’ll admit I’m not particularly up-to-date with Brandon Wood. His power appears to be prodigious. He had 21 errors in 2008, in the minors and 9 in 100 games in 2009. The dude is going to be 25 starting next season. Why is it taking him so long if he can hit 30 homers and play gold-glove defense? I genuinely don’t understand. Suppose all of what you say is true, he’s a guy that can be their starting SS and hit 30 home runs. Sounds like a good piece. I’ll grant you that. I’m not sure it’s the case, but we’ll go from there.

I think Posada is a decent comparison to Napoli. Somehow I think the Jays would take Jorge-like production after a few years of Rod Barajas. And when their young catcher is ready in 2 years, Napoli will still have power. Again, pretty damn good PIECE. Mathis was only offered if they prefer defense and an athlete who had a college FB scholie to Fla. St. but has never been given a shot to play every day. Sure looked good against the Yanks though. Just an option.

They would never take Mathis. Never. No reason to mention it. Let’s focus on Napoli. He has some similarities to Posada, sure. But Jorge is a far more complete hitter than Napoli, though Napoli has better power. The D, again, is REALLY bad. Maybe they take him. We don’t know how the Jays value the catching position in terms of O vs. D. He’s also not a young guy, which may be something they’d want.

I will agree that the Adenhart loss hurt their system quite a bit. Moreso than if we lost Joba or Hughes. That said, I think any of those people mentioned would be attractive PIECES to a deal.

Yeah, I never said anything about that. But yes, Adenhart’s death hurt. Moreso than Joba or Hughes? Maybe. Both Joba and Hughes have ace potential, like Adenhart, but both our guys were more experienced and have played bigger roles. So I don’t know about that.

If they decided they wanted Howie Kendrick or Ervin Santana included, I doubt the Angels would hesitate much.
I think they match up so well because of all the options they provide the Jays. We can’t come close to that. We have Montero, Jackson, and Joba/ Hughes. All of whom “have serious flaws” and one who doesn’t fit a positional need.

Not sure they’d think Santana is all that great. Really inconsistent. Kendrick? Sure, but they have Aaron Hill. Montero has a serious flaw, no question. Jackson’s k-rate is alarming. He profiles as a good, not great player. Joba and Hughes profile as possible ace-types and have been able to play well on the big stage. They are easily better than any pitchers the Angels throw into a deal.

So, I stand by the fact that I can’t find another team in the MLB that matches up as well with the Jays in ability to give them an attractive package and have the revenue stream to sign him long term. If you do, I would love to hear it

All of this is based on the assumption they’d trade him and find those players attractive. There are many reasons they might not find those players attractive. Of the top of my head, perhaps Texas would be interested in assembling a package. The Braves might, and FWIW, I think the Dodgers and Yanks could also put together competitive packages. We have no idea what the Jays are really looking for. Maybe they see Montero as a corner fielder filling power, Jackson as a good CFer and Hughes as a #2 starter as more attractive than Wood as a great-hitting, okay fielding SS, Napoli as a poor D, good O catcher, and Walden as a high-upside pitcher. Maybe not. We don’t know.

You’re way too sure of things you shouldn’t be.

Serious flaws? Not most of them. If they were our prospects I have a feeling we would be singing their praises.

Wood K’s a lot. So does Ryan Howard. So does Austin Jackson. Wood has also played on the major league level and can hit 30 HR’s. He has a very solid glove at SS (just not as good as Aybar) and a plus glove at the corners. If he struggles at all it is because he has moved so much. 30 HR’s, a pus glove, versatility, witha rookie salary scale? Yes, I think the Jays would find that pretty attractive as a PIECE to a Halladay deal.

I think Posada is a decent comparison to Napoli. Somehow I think the Jays would take Jorge-like production after a few years of Rod Barajas. And when their young catcher is ready in 2 years, Napoli will still have power. Again, pretty damn good PIECE. Mathis was only offered if they prefer defense and an athlete who had a college FB scholie to Fla. St. but has never been given a shot to play every day. Sure looked good against the Yanks though. Just an option.

I will agree that the Adenhart loss hurt their system quite a bit. Moreso than if we lost Joba or Hughes. That said, I think any of those people mentioned would be attractive PIECES to a deal.

If they decided they wanted Howie Kendrick or Ervin Santana included, I doubt the Angels would hesitate much.

I think they match up so well because of all the options they provide the Jays. We can’t come close to that. We have Montero, Jackson, and Joba/ Hughes. All of whom “have serious flaws” and one who doesn’t fit a positional need.

So, I stand by the fact that I can’t find another team in the MLB that matches up as well with the Jays in ability to give them an attractive package and have the revenue stream to sign him long term. If you do, I would love to hear it

Debatable from what I have read. Either way, I don’t see anything wrong with what he said considering where he said it. I can almost promise that if Girardi said something similar there would be little to no uproar. Be fair, not biased

–Again, that’s not his job. Neither of those things are his job.

His job entails being the face of the organization and there are public appearances built into his job description. So yes, this is part of his job. Especially in the offseason.

–Again, none of this has anything to do with what you were talking about.

Then remind me of what WE were talking about because if I recall it was you that brought up the debate of his value. I was simply pointing out how valuable he is to that organization.

Dumb people would, maybe. We’re not dumb.

they asked him a question and he answered by backing his team and firing up a crowd and fan base…exactly what was needed to sell season tickets.

Again, that’s not his job. Neither of those things are his job.

and whether you agree with his managing or not, it is no secret that mike runs that organization and gets a lot of credit for taking them from being just one of the pack to easily in the top 3 of AL teams this past decade.

denying that just shows you are not paying attention

Again, none of this has anything to do with what you were talking about.

Mathis is Posada-like with the glove. Maybe they want him, maybe they don’t. His defense is outright horrible. Sure, he can hit the ball pretty far and has good obp numbers. A lot of that is undone by his defense. Who knows how the Jays value that.

No way they take Mathis. That’s nuts. Bell is a solid prospect, agreed, but there’s rumbling that his velocity is down. O’Sullivan has had an ERA around 5 the past few years and an ERA over 6.50 in the majors. Good stuff, yeah. Potential? Yeah. Ready for The Show? Probably not. Ortega has injury issues, Rivera is making $13 million. The Jays won’t take on salary. Maybe Izturis but he doesn’t make much impact with his bat. His glove is great, though.

I’m not saying they don’t have good prospects that would appeal to teams. They have some quality players. I never said it was a barren farm. I said it wasn’t deep. Not one player there doesn’t have serious flaws. The Jays would want a top-flight young pitcher really close to contributing, which they don’t have, and some sure things. Brandon Wood and a few other guys don’t get you Halladay.