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	<title>Comments on: Greinke takes home the Cy Young</title>
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		<title>By: steve s</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/11/greinke-takes-home-the-cy-young-20100/#comment-689926</link>
		<dc:creator>steve s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=20100#comment-689926</guid>
		<description>Appreciate the response. It would be fascinating if this kind of fact pattern actually happens one day but my sense is that the 24-6 CC would still be elected by the dumb writers fairly easily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Appreciate the response. It would be fascinating if this kind of fact pattern actually happens one day but my sense is that the 24-6 CC would still be elected by the dumb writers fairly easily.</p>
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		<title>By: Omar</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/11/greinke-takes-home-the-cy-young-20100/#comment-689490</link>
		<dc:creator>Omar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=20100#comment-689490</guid>
		<description>Jesus Christ, you guys are touchy about Chamberlain. It&#039;s completely reasonable to wait for him to be a reliable starter before we say he&#039;ll be mentioned in a CYA debate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesus Christ, you guys are touchy about Chamberlain. It&#8217;s completely reasonable to wait for him to be a reliable starter before we say he&#8217;ll be mentioned in a CYA debate?</p>
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		<title>By: tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/11/greinke-takes-home-the-cy-young-20100/#comment-689486</link>
		<dc:creator>tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=20100#comment-689486</guid>
		<description>Hmmm... without changing any other stat?

Greinke still has an ERA of 2.16 in 229.1 innings, and CC still has an ERA of 3.37 in 230 IP, and all we&#039;re changing is the wins and losses of the two pitchers?

If that&#039;s the case, CC would need to be like 25-5 (or better) and Greinke would need to be like 15-15 (or worse) in order for me to be so swayed by the flawed statistic of wins and losses to make it make me overlook the far more critical stats like ERA/tRA/FIP.

If Greinke goes 16-15 and CC goes 24-6, I still give the Cy Young to Greinke on the strength of that 2.16 ERA.  That&#039;s far more impressive than the wins and losses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm&#8230; without changing any other stat?</p>
<p>Greinke still has an ERA of 2.16 in 229.1 innings, and CC still has an ERA of 3.37 in 230 IP, and all we&#8217;re changing is the wins and losses of the two pitchers?</p>
<p>If that&#8217;s the case, CC would need to be like 25-5 (or better) and Greinke would need to be like 15-15 (or worse) in order for me to be so swayed by the flawed statistic of wins and losses to make it make me overlook the far more critical stats like ERA/tRA/FIP.</p>
<p>If Greinke goes 16-15 and CC goes 24-6, I still give the Cy Young to Greinke on the strength of that 2.16 ERA.  That&#8217;s far more impressive than the wins and losses.</p>
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		<title>By: steve s</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/11/greinke-takes-home-the-cy-young-20100/#comment-689422</link>
		<dc:creator>steve s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 22:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=20100#comment-689422</guid>
		<description>Without changing one statistic other than wins, what is the minimum amount of wins that CC would have needed to win to have, in your opinion, deserved the Cy Young over Greinke? In fairness there has to be a tipping point where even the flawed simplistic win statistic has an impact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Without changing one statistic other than wins, what is the minimum amount of wins that CC would have needed to win to have, in your opinion, deserved the Cy Young over Greinke? In fairness there has to be a tipping point where even the flawed simplistic win statistic has an impact.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick B</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/11/greinke-takes-home-the-cy-young-20100/#comment-689407</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=20100#comment-689407</guid>
		<description>Ironically, that looks pretty similar to the patented play of the guy who actually did win the gold glove. Fielding % still gets a lot of consideration when voters make their gold glove choice. A lot of people think its a useless stat but I tend to disagree. We can never know for sure whether a shortstop shouldve gotten to a ball or if another guy wouldve gotten to it because there are a ton of variables. However, fielding percentage tells us a lot about what a guy does on the balls he did get to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ironically, that looks pretty similar to the patented play of the guy who actually did win the gold glove. Fielding % still gets a lot of consideration when voters make their gold glove choice. A lot of people think its a useless stat but I tend to disagree. We can never know for sure whether a shortstop shouldve gotten to a ball or if another guy wouldve gotten to it because there are a ton of variables. However, fielding percentage tells us a lot about what a guy does on the balls he did get to.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick B</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/11/greinke-takes-home-the-cy-young-20100/#comment-689403</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=20100#comment-689403</guid>
		<description>I agree except I&#039;d flip Felix and Greinke. If you (a voter) is going to look past Greinke&#039;s lack of wins because of the bad team he played for, you should also look at his ERA in the context of the bad teams he played. That being said Greinke had an amazing year worthy of the award.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree except I&#8217;d flip Felix and Greinke. If you (a voter) is going to look past Greinke&#8217;s lack of wins because of the bad team he played for, you should also look at his ERA in the context of the bad teams he played. That being said Greinke had an amazing year worthy of the award.</p>
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		<title>By: tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/11/greinke-takes-home-the-cy-young-20100/#comment-689402</link>
		<dc:creator>tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=20100#comment-689402</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;1) Greinke’s win total was the lowest in history for a Cy Young award winner who wasn’t a relief pitcher and who didn’t win the award in a strike year.&lt;/b&gt;

This is a good development, not a bad one.  It shows that the voters are beginning to move away from the flawed win-centric model of pitcher evaluation popular in the past.

&lt;b&gt;2) Relief pitchers have won the award 9 times.&lt;/b&gt;

Most of those wins are very dubious in retrospect.

&lt;b&gt;3) Other than strike years and relievers, a 20 game winner won the award 66 times and a non-20 game winner has won 16 times.&lt;/b&gt;

Again, I&#039;m not sure where you&#039;re going with this.  Old baseball writers are, for the most part, dumb.

&lt;b&gt;4) Other than Steve Carlton, Greinke is the only winner from a last place team.&lt;/b&gt;

See #1.  This is a good thing.  Frankly, more last-place pitchers should be winning the award.  For both the MVP and Cy Young, it specifically tells voters on the ballot not to eliminate a player just because he&#039;s on a bad team.

&lt;b&gt;I still say, historically speaking now, Mo should have been given more consideration&lt;/b&gt;

I still say, historically speaking, the histories of these awards are full of errors we should not be duplicating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>1) Greinke’s win total was the lowest in history for a Cy Young award winner who wasn’t a relief pitcher and who didn’t win the award in a strike year.</b></p>
<p>This is a good development, not a bad one.  It shows that the voters are beginning to move away from the flawed win-centric model of pitcher evaluation popular in the past.</p>
<p><b>2) Relief pitchers have won the award 9 times.</b></p>
<p>Most of those wins are very dubious in retrospect.</p>
<p><b>3) Other than strike years and relievers, a 20 game winner won the award 66 times and a non-20 game winner has won 16 times.</b></p>
<p>Again, I&#8217;m not sure where you&#8217;re going with this.  Old baseball writers are, for the most part, dumb.</p>
<p><b>4) Other than Steve Carlton, Greinke is the only winner from a last place team.</b></p>
<p>See #1.  This is a good thing.  Frankly, more last-place pitchers should be winning the award.  For both the MVP and Cy Young, it specifically tells voters on the ballot not to eliminate a player just because he&#8217;s on a bad team.</p>
<p><b>I still say, historically speaking now, Mo should have been given more consideration</b></p>
<p>I still say, historically speaking, the histories of these awards are full of errors we should not be duplicating.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/11/greinke-takes-home-the-cy-young-20100/#comment-689398</link>
		<dc:creator>tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=20100#comment-689398</guid>
		<description>That depends.  Will Matt Holliday take a 3 year, 30M offer?  Will the Phillies resign Cliff Lee?  It&#039;s impossible to know any of these things ahead of time.  Impossible.  Totally and utterly impossible.

No point in even bothering to try to predict any of them, no matter how much evidence we may be able to gather that would naturally lend itself to reasonably intelligent guesses using predictive forecasting.  Nope, it&#039;s pointless.  Matt Holliday could sign a 3 year, 30M deal tomorrow.  We&#039;ll just have to wait and see.

Sincerely,
Bo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That depends.  Will Matt Holliday take a 3 year, 30M offer?  Will the Phillies resign Cliff Lee?  It&#8217;s impossible to know any of these things ahead of time.  Impossible.  Totally and utterly impossible.</p>
<p>No point in even bothering to try to predict any of them, no matter how much evidence we may be able to gather that would naturally lend itself to reasonably intelligent guesses using predictive forecasting.  Nope, it&#8217;s pointless.  Matt Holliday could sign a 3 year, 30M deal tomorrow.  We&#8217;ll just have to wait and see.</p>
<p>Sincerely,<br />
Bo</p>
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		<title>By: pete</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/11/greinke-takes-home-the-cy-young-20100/#comment-689393</link>
		<dc:creator>pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=20100#comment-689393</guid>
		<description>ps does anyone remember this play?
http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=6303765
wtffff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ps does anyone remember this play?<br />
<a href="http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=6303765" rel="nofollow">http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/m.....id=6303765</a><br />
wtffff</p>
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		<title>By: pete</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2009/11/greinke-takes-home-the-cy-young-20100/#comment-689392</link>
		<dc:creator>pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=20100#comment-689392</guid>
		<description>i&#039;m still getting over the fact that this guy:
http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=6538573
didn&#039;t win a gold glove</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i&#8217;m still getting over the fact that this guy:<br />
<a href="http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=6538573" rel="nofollow">http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/m.....id=6538573</a><br />
didn&#8217;t win a gold glove</p>
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