Nov
12

Guess who doesn’t have an innings limit anymore

By

Amidst the news from the GM Meetings can word from Brian Cashman, via Chad Jennings, that both Joba Chamberlain‘s and Phil Hughes‘ innings cap in 2010 will “not be significant.” After years of discussion about innings limits, the Yanks are ready to let their youngster loose, and it makes sense. Joba threw over 160 innings this year, and a 30-inning bump would put him at 190 innings. That’s a threshold reached by just 21 other AL pitchers in 2009.

The decision to let Hughes’ innings limit slide is of another nature. As Mike just noted, Hughes as a major part of the 2009 bullpen but threw only 106 innings because of it. At The Yankee Universe, Moshe Mandel speculates that a lack of an innings cap for Hughes is motivated by the 146 innings he threw in 2006. The Yanks may be willing to allow Hughes throw approximately 175 innings in 2010 because of that past.

Categories : Asides, Pitching
  • jsbrendog

    now, just keep them out of the pen and the masterplan is almost complete

  • MattG

    The 2010 NY Yankees will probably score fewer runs, and allow more runs out of the bullpen than the 2009 version.

    The 365 innings contributed by Chamberlain and Hughes will be the most likely place to counteract decline.

  • Free Mike Vick

    R.I.P

    JOBA RULES

    2007-2009

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      That would be a great t-shirt.

      • pete

        +28

      • Ace

        How about…

        “B-Jobbers Can Suck It – 190 and Beyond”

      • http://twitter.com/riddering Riddering

        I’d buy it.

        Hint, hint.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      It’s kinda sad that the concept of monitoring the workload progression of a young starter (a concept that is sound and existed long before Joba Chamberlain joined the Yankees) has been conflated with the phrase “The Joba Rules”.

      It makes it seem as if Joba was the first/only young pitcher who was ever restricted as he matured to guard against injury. It probably gives rise to the stupid notion in NYC media circles that the Yankees are “babying” Joba, even though all organizations (well, all non Dusty Baker organizations) also “baby” their pitchers.

      They’re not the “Joba Rules”. They’re the “Young Starting Pitcher Rules”.

      • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        Actually, they’re really the “Torre Rules.” What everyone thinks of today as the Joba Rules are really just normal innings limits, like you said. But the term and concept of the “Joba Rules” was born out of the necessity to tie Torre’s hands so he wasn’t in control of Joba during his early-career developmental phase. The rules were put in place to deal with Torre, not Joba.

        I know the Torre die-hards aren’t going to like me for saying this, but it’s the truth.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          True, true.

          • jsbrendog

            poor poor (insert any pitcher ever to come up under dusty baker) wishes they had the same thing.

            Edinson volquez is prob still pitching, along with prior, kerry wood as a starter, etc, etc, etc

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Which further illustrates the idiocy of the “Joba Rules” phrase being uttered. If any MSM guy declares the “Joba Rules” being dead now that Joba’s innings caps are lifted, because, as you said, the Joba Rules died the moment Joe Torre left and Joe Girardi replaced him.

            The Joba Rules weren’t innings caps at all, they were just rules that Joba couldn’t throw back to back days or throw more than one inning at a time without being rested a corresponding number of days. They were only rules about how to use a 20 year old starter while he was temporarily in the bullpen for a pennant run.

            The Joba Rules died in 2007, a scant few months after they were born.

            • jsbrendog

              ugh if only those stupid joba rules t shirts would die the same death. I want to berate verbally anyone i see wearing one of those stupid shirts

            • http://www.facebook.com/dougchu Doug

              I think Neftali Feliz was also under the “Joba Rules” when he was called up, and no one said anything about that.

              • pete

                well, to be fair, we here at river ave blues said a lot about it, since it appeared to render nolan ryan’s statements about the “babying” of young pitchers hypocritical, despite being the obvious right move by the organization.

                • http://www.facebook.com/dougchu Doug

                  That’s true. I was referring more to the immense media uproar over Joba compared to Feliz’s comparative non-reaction.

                • Bo

                  Media uproar? You realize these are the Yankees right and you’re comparing them to the texas rangers???

  • Salty Buggah

    Somewhere, Goose Gossage just smiled.

    • http://twitter.com/riddering Riddering

      Then he cried to himself, wishing he’d been managed by a nice guy like Girardi.

    • http://twitter.com/JamalG_BB Jamal G.

      Gossage is a B-Jobber.

  • http://twitter.com/riddering Riddering

    Hughes and Joba all set to pitch in the rotation for 2010 makes me giddy. That eight inning shutout in Texas and 12 K performance against Boston seem like just yesterday.

    • Bo

      Did Kennedy and Hughes in the rotation in 08 make u giddy?

  • pete

    my guess: hughes will throw no more than 160 innings this year

    reason: because it’s been so long since hughes has hit his high, which was still only 146, he simply is not very likely to remain effective for 180-200 innings. By not prescribing an innings limit, the yankees are merely saying “we don’t know how far hughes can go this year, and after all the bitching last year, we sure as shit aren’t telling you guys about one if we do have one”
    I expect the yankees to let hughes pitch as long as he can without worrying about a cap, and when it becomes obvious (like with joba this year) that he can’t cut it any more, which should be around august/september, you shut him down for a couple weeks before bringing him back in the bullpen. At this point, there’s a solid chance that either wang is back or one of nova/mcallister/kennedy/gaudin is capable of 5th startering the rest of the way.
    I will say that I seriously hope that the yankees ease up on joba down the stretch so that they can have 4 legit starters come playoffs.

    • 28 next year

      cause three worked out so badly this year…

      • pete

        of course it didn’t. But the phillies had only one really good starter this postseason, and he beat our ace both times. The other times we had the enigmatic aj burnett and the aging pettitte. I’m not saying we couldn’t do it, but it’d be nice not to have to start anyone on short rest in the playoffs again, especially if his name isn’t CC Sabathia. Could we, and still succeed? sure. Should we not try to avoid that scenario anyway, since it’s pretty obvious that it isn’t ideal? Of course we should.

        • Mr. Max

          He beat CC once, AJ once

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

    So, will this be the end of the “We need to sign John Lackey because Joba and Hughes have innings caps and are thus ‘questionmarks’ and we should just stick one of them in the bullpen” line of thought?

    … naaaaaaah, probably not. I’m raising the Terriost Threat Level to Orange.

    (hint hint… that Terriost Threat Level thing I sent you guys would be a great RAB sidebar right now. I’m just saying.)

    • Ace

      (hint hint… that Terriost Threat Level thing I sent you guys would be a great RAB sidebar right now. I’m just saying.)

      That’s good stuff.

  • Zanath

    So no Phil Phormula?

    • Teix is the Man

      phil – innings cap = fucking stud

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      So no Phil Phormula?

      Naw, phuck that.

  • PrettyBoyFloyd

    Fuck no on Lackey. He’s too ugly. I don’t care about pitching, I just can’t root for someone that ugly. Jesus, he is FUG.

    • pete

      true. I am all in favor of never ever signing lackey or kevin youkilis, regardless of context or cost, for that exact reason. Ok if we got them both for league minimum then maybe, but i’d look away every time their faces appeared on the screen.

      • dudes

        we could make them wear those head warmer things that cano and aybar were wearing during the playoffs all year.

      • Camilo Gerardo – your inception? fuck perception, go with what makes sense

        lackey and carlos beltran without his rightie batting helmet, both

  • Bo

    Hes a different pitcher when relieving. How is anyone excited about him starting after what he did in the 2nd half is beyond me. The guy is an elite reliever and a below avg starter.

    The thing is his fastball is a much different while starting. its not even cause for debate. it sits at 91. When relieving it is electric. its 97mph. hes a totally different pitcher.

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  • Greg Corcoran

    You guys need to relax!!! Hughes is 23 years old, and Joba is 24! Still a 2 years away from the prime of their career (especially Hughes). Yankees fans are panicking as if the world is going to end if Joba and Phil don’t have ERA’s under 4 this year. My prediction, Joba will have an under 4 ERA this year. Phil maybe not, but he will be effective as a starter. These guys are only going to get better, and once they find a formula for success they are going to continually succeed. John Lackey, the top FA pitcher on the market right now, didn’t have a full season at an under 4 ERA until he was 26!!! Some guys take longer to fully develop. Hughes and Joba’s arm and control are going to get better in the next 2 years. Experience is going to serve them well. Also, Phil hasn’t been back to the rotation since he started relieving. Maybe some of that success in the relief role can translate into a starting role. He knows how to get major league hitters out now! Trading either of these guys would be a MAJOR mistake for one year of Halladay. I am of the opinion that they could get Halladay without parting with either of them though.