Open Thread: AzFL Rising Stars Showcase
ByThings in Yankeeland are a little slow these days, but for all the right reasons. Everyone is still celebrating the club’s 27th World Title, and the most exciting part of the Hot Stove Season doesn’t start for another two weeks or so. It’s been just three days, but I already miss the hell out of baseball. If, like me, you’re battling the withdrawals, you can check out the Arizona Fall League Rising Stars Showcase tonight on MLB Network.
It’s essentially the AzFL All Star Game, and even though Stephen Strasburg won’t be playing because of a muscle strain in his neck, the game still will feature oodles of talent. In the starting lineups alone, you have eight first round picks, three superhigh profile international signees, and a handful of late-round sleepers. The rosters read like a who’s who list of top prospects (off the top of my head, I see no fewer than 18 first round picks), so it’s almost like a second Futures Game.
The only Yankee farmhand participating in the game is lefty reliever Mike Dunn, who we saw briefly in September. He’s surely get to face a batter or two at some point. If you’re interested in checking out the game, it’ll be on MLBN at 8pm ET.
Feel free to chat about it here, or whatever else you want to talk about. The Rangers, Devils, Islanders, Nets, and Knicks are all in action tonight, plus you’ve got more college football games than I care to list. Anything goes, just be respectful of each other.
BTW Cashman totally acknowledged me at the parade yest, When i yelled “CASHMAN!”
Is it possible that Mike Cameron + Damon is better than Matsui + Damon (or Cameron + Matsui)?
The Yanks keep saying they want to get younger. Cameron’s 37 years old on opening day, and was a strikeout machine in his prime. He’d be a step down from Damon. Better glove, much worse bat.
156 Strikeouts? Ouch. But a 10.3 UZR/150 is nice
The problem with getting younger is that it doesn’t necessarily work. Of the 5 teams with the oldest lineups in the majors, 3 of them made the playoffs. Of the 5 teams with the oldest pitching staffs in the majors, 3 of them made the playoffs.
Looking further back, since 1995 and the expansion of the playoffs the World Series champion has had a pitching staff or lineup in the bottom half of the league 4 times. In the same period, there were 4 teams whose pitching staff and lineups were both on of the 5 oldest in the league, and 9 times they were both among the 10 oldest.
It may be fun to watch young teams run around and chase the ball a lot, but youth generally doesn’t win championships.
Well here’s the issue: Young usually means real cheap. What are the odds of a rookie having a five year career, say?
Young and talented, like the Rays, with a deep farm system where they can cultivate a core group and have them in their primes winning championships, that’s a whole other matter, and much rarer.
We got an old team, but remember the same core of four made possible the 96 to 2001 dynasty. Young and cheap they were then, old and expensive they are now, but Jeter, Posada, Rivera, and Pettite were just great throughout.
Getting younger while getting impact players in their prime does not happen in trades or via FA, but takes a farm system. DotF, I see only Montero and maybe Jackson holding up as franchise players around whom you could build a dynasty. Hughes, maybe Joba, and maybe IPK could be part of that. Add Robinson, hope Chapman signs and is all that, and we are set as the current core retires.
Could the Yanks continue to win AND have a great farm system producing impact players? So long as the Yanks are willing to pay signing bonus premiums and take risks, which is what they have been doing.
haha. I just proposed this idea in the last thread. Is it a no-no to repost what was said over there?
It is if you keep posting it everywhere since it’ll probably be off topic and such but I guess since it’s an open thread it wouldn’t be that bad.
Matsui is definitely the better bat, but Mike Cameron is no certainly no slouch himself. It is a dropoff but I do not think it is a huge dropoff. Also the flexibility Cameron provides may help the offense overall by keeping Damon, AROD, and Posada fresh.
Swisher this year also went through a couple really bad slumps, so having Cameron would really help there too if it happens again next year.
Cameron also provides a ton of value defensively in not just his play in CF but being able to shift Melky and putting the Yankees worst defender at DH.
Finally Two stats I was surprised to see. Cameron 2009 WAR: 4.3 and value: $19.4
I didn’t read it – good I’m not the only one to think about it.
No.
very insightful response
“If they don’t have the money to improve the club, they might have to make a trade or two, and that has to begin with pitcher Chad Billingsley. For him to not make a start in the National League Championship Series — but Hiroki Kuroda did, and Vicente Padilla made two — means it’s time for him to go.
If the Dodgers don’t think Billingsley has the stomach to be a top-of-the-rotation guy, then they should trade him now for pitching help.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4629907
“Stomach”? Seriously? Someone’s going to get themselves a bargain on this deal.
BTW-That is classic Joe Torre talking right there. A big believer in old school grit and toughness and thinks the playoffs are totally different than the regular season.
I’ve seen Billingsley pitch a few times – and if the Dodgers really think that, they’re all sorts of stupid. He might not pan out – but he’s only 25, and has insane talent. Pitchers can and do develop and grow at 25
Has Kurkjian always been a B-Jobber? Given what the Yankees did the entire season with Joba, what makes him think they’re going to stick him BACK in the pen? He’s a starter unless he proves he absolutely cannot do it – and he sure hasn’t proved that yet.
I sure hope the Sox sign Bay to a 4-year deal at over 15 mil – he’s an awful defender, and I don’t think he’ll age well at the plate.
Not sure what the Yankees do with Damon or Matsui – I’m still gonna be enjoying #27 for the next few weeks
So anyone get Modern Warfare 2 yet? it’s totally sick
Yeah. It’s insane.
I played for about three hours straight before. I stopped after I was supposed to rescue that dude from the panic room, but he was already dead when you get there.
The massive mission in the strip mall – with the Taco Bell, Burger King, and Applebee’s knock offs – was intense.
I haven’t even touched the campaign yet, I’ve been playing online matches of search and destroy, HQ, and Sabotage
I’m the opposite. I polish off the campaign before I do the online thing.
how did you guys get MW2 already?
They’re assholes.
Remember that store I told you about for The Show? Same place.
tell me tell me
If your playing copies before they are released, don’t play online because you can get your xbox id banned. Happened to a couple friends that were playing cracked games before they were officially released. Same thing could happen to you, even if you have a legit version.
WTF. You got it early? Lucky.
i mis tabata!
Thank God, I was looking for something about Tabata! Wish we had him still… although Marte was big this post-season. Tabata + AJAX = Drool.
NPB players can play in AFL? who knew? lol
First year.
Minor absolutely shat the bed. 7ER in less than an inning.
I call that the Atlee Hammaker special.
Can we call mike minor a bust yet??
LOL @ 7Rs in 2/3 of an inning.
How high did this guy go again? 5th overall?
he was a budget pick. so he’s kinda of a major overdraft.
i dont know… ricky romero was a college lefty and an overdraft too. he worked out nicely for the jays. the braves must be hoping for best case scenario.
http://sports.espn.go.com/bost.....id=4628529
“Would the Phillies trade Cole Hamels, big-time prospect Domonic Brown and another prospect for Beckett, then decide whether to sign Cliff Lee or Beckett before they’re free agents next November? Probably not, as they refused to trade the 22-year-old Brown last July in a deal for Halladay. Would the Dodgers trade Chad Billingsley, Russell Martin and a top prospect for Beckett if the Red Sox made the finances right for L.A.?”
Yes Gents. Gammons is back to his old tricks none too soon as the confetti in Bowling Green is blowing about.
Wow. That’s insane.
lol…
IMO Beckett is one of the most overrated pitchers in baseball. He is like Jimmy Rollins. Built up a reputation based on 1 or 2 really good seasons and then after that people in the MSM just stopped looking at his statistics.
Him and Burnett have pretty much the same career stats and AJ has arguably been less injury prone
Beckett’s numbers in the AL are better than Burnett’s in the AL, and Beckett has proven that he could have a fantastic, top of the line starter type season and Burnett hasn’t.
agreed. beckett’s often got some sort of nagging injury that keeps him from being truly elite year after year, but on the rare full healthy season, he’s money. AJ always has been and always will be an enigma.
Beckett is better than Burnett, but that doesn’t mean that Beckett isn’t overrated. he is.
Shouldn’t it be the other way around? Sox send Beckett + Prospects for Billingsley?
HAHAHAHA!!!
Beckett is one year from free agency.
that trade proposal is batshit insane.
insane. “+ one more prospect”. why not throw in Utley?
I think the Yanks have a relatively quiet off season where they bring back Damon and Andy and not do much else except fill up their bench. Opening Day payroll starts inching down further (as it did last year) and likely settles in at 190-195 mil this year, or about 10-15 mil lower than last year.
With a new Collective Bargaining Agreement to be negotiated with the Player’s Union coming up in 2011, I suspect the Yanks would like to take some of the steam away from their critics by lowering payroll over the next few years, lest they be hit by higher luxury tax rates and/or lower thresholds. With new MLBPA leadership and the country in a recession, it stands to reason the player’s association will be forced into some givebacks this go-around. If nothing else, inching down payroll now means you won’t be forced into doing anything drastic later.
So fans most likely won’t be getting any big free agents under their holiday trees this year, they got #27 instead.
So what about Godzilla?
Do you mean Gone-zilla?
How do we replace his production?
I think A-Rod, Posada, Jeter and Damon will do a nice job filling in at DH.
So the lineup, most of the time:
Jeter SS
Damon DH
Tex 1b
A-Rod 3b
Posada C
Cano 2b
Swisher RF
Cabrera CF
Gardner/Hairston LF
Or:
Jeter SS
Damon LF
Tex 1b
A-Rod 3b
Posada DH
Cano 2b
Swishy RF
Cabrera CF
Molina/Cervelli C
I hate it. Hate it. Hate it. We’re putting terrible hitters at the bottom of the lineup. We might as well sign Matsui, and if we need “flexibility” don’t play him and instead stick in one of the above mentioned bench players.
sign Cameron or Nady or Byrd
or even a Randy winn or bring back marcus thames (buying low and hoping they find it again)
then you can basically replace melky in any line-up you have with one of the new guys.
I actually think they will re-sign or at least make an offer to Matsui based on his marketability in Japan. That is a huge market for the Yankee brand to give up.
Sorry, but estimates I’ve read had the Yanks making 1-2 mil off marketing him in Japan. It’s just not that big of a deal.
Yeah, I’m with The Artist on this one. Whenever a Japanese player is discussed the whole marketing money idea is tossed around, but in reality we have no idea how much they’re actually making by having Japanese players on the roster, and I’ve never seen any estimates that it’s more than a relatively nominal amount. What are we talking about, here… Advertising and merchandising money? The advertising money I would kinda figure is a non-issue, since whatever money they’re making from Japanese companies would in all likelihood be replaced by money from American companies if the Japanese companies were less interested.
Again, though, I’m certainly no expert on this stuff. I’m all ears if anyone is.
My understanding has always been it’s more about marketing the sport internationally and developing future fan base, rather than any immediate payoff on any particular player.
Still important, but when people say it will impact the team financially short term is where I disagree.
i’ve read that matsui is worth about $3M/year to the yankees in additional revenue.
I’ve seen 1-2. They’re all estimates, but in any case it’s not a huge sum to a team that generates at least 400 mil annually, and with the new ballpark that figure could be much higher.
Oh you know that line of thinking is faulty. Who fills in 3rd base, catcher, short stop or LF when they are DH’ing?
I don’t want Cody Ransom, Jose Molina/Francisco Cervelli, and Ramiro Pena being part of the lineup unnecessarily. I want the A lineup everyday, not the B lineup for a lot of days.
Glad somebody picked up on this. Yes, I thought that the minute I typed it. I’m sure ‘Mr Matchup’ Girardi will take the opportunity to rest those guys on days they’re facing a pitcher they don’t hit well and/or sub a guy who matches up well with that opposing pitcher. But saying this:
I want the A lineup everyday, not the B lineup for a lot of days.
. . . is borderline irrational. They’re not robots, they need time off. Resting guys means you’ll get MORE out of them all year, and have them strong for the playoffs. Remember the tear Alex went on after his 3 days off in Fla? Remember the Mets September collapse in 07? Randolf played his regulars every day and they ran out of gas.
I totally hear your side of this, and, frankly, I still don’t really know what my preferred strategy would be this offseason (it doesn’t look as clear as the ‘08-’09 landscape did, when signing CC/AJ/Pettitte seemed kind of obvious)… But it’s not “borderline irrational” to think a lineup with Matsui at DH (say, 4-5 times a week) is preferable to a lineup with a more rotating DH slot and an inferior hitter getting substantially more playing time. Re-signing Matsui may not be the best way to go, but that line of thinking is certainly not irrational. A 120+ OPS+ is nothing to sneeze at.
One thing to keep in mind re: Matsui… If the Yanks re-sign him, they’re not re-signing him with the intention of playing him every day. He played in 142 games this year. If you have that bat in the lineup about 130 times next season, you have the benefit of a superior offensive player and you have some time to rotate some other players through the DH slot, also. There’s a lot of value there, and the decision is not an either/or of a) sign Matsui and never use the DH slot to rest regulars or b) let Matsui walk and use the DH slot to rest regulars. It’s entirely possible those two concepts are not mutually exclusive.
Obviously I meant the ‘08-’09 thing seemed obvious to me, not to everyone. What I meant was that I settled on my preferred postseason plan early last season, I didn’t mean that was the only way to go with things or that everyone agreed with that strategy.
HCM, I was unambiguously referring to resting players, not referring to signing Matsui or not.
In this thread, which started with a comment/discussion of Matsui, you also unambiguously referred to your opinion (1) that the Yanks should let Matsui walk, and (2) that A-Rod, Posada, Jeter and Damon would fill-in for his production at DH (thus leaving an inferior player somewhere in the lineup). This whole conversation has been about whether the Yanks should sign Matsui, and what the ramifications will be if they do or don’t. You may not have said the words “the Yanks should let Matsui walk so that they can rotate other players into the DH slot while playing an inferior bat somewhere in the field” in that particular comment that I responded to, but that’s certainly a part of the argument you’ve been putting out there in this thread.
I want the A lineup everyday, not the B lineup for a lot of days.
. . . is borderline irrational. They’re not robots, they need time off. Resting guys means you’ll get MORE out of them all year, and have them strong for the playoffs. Remember the tear Alex went on after his 3 days off in Fla? Remember the Mets September collapse in 07? Randolf played his regulars every day and they ran out of gas.
You’re preaching to the choir here. I never once said I don’t see the utility in resting players, I just said I think you can rest players and also have Matsui on the roster.
If your point is just that you can’t have the absolute A lineup every single day of the season, then yes, of course any rational person would agree with that assertion. I don’t think that’s what JobaWockeeZ really meant, I think he meant he doesn’t want the A lineup to include one of the inferior hitters, and I don’t think that’s necessarily irrational. The reason I think that’s what he meant is because that’s what the Yanks had this season, and I don’t think he’s arguing that the lineup this season was unacceptable because we didn’t have the absolute A lineup in there every single day of the season. I think he misspoke a bit, but hey, he can explain himself if he wants.
And… It’s “Randolph.”
Yes it is. I wonder who crawled in my brain and typed that.
I’m working on a payroll post for TYU tomorrow, here’s my take on Matsui.
Coming off a World Series MVP and a terrific season, it would seem hard to let Godzilla walk. Not due to sentimentality, but because he’s still a very productive player. But Cashman doesn’t let the small sample size of the playoffs sway him into making deals and Girardi would like more roster flexibility and the DH spot open to rest his aging regulars and still keep their bats in the lineup. Not having an everyday DH means you could carry an extra arm in the bullpen or carry a 3rd catcher for the days you DH Posada, which will be often next year. The reality is that when you look at it in total, the contract Hideki signed in 2006 didn’t work out for the Yanks. They signed a player who had an iron-man streak going who spent most of 07 and 08 on the DL with knee injuries. 09 was great, but even then he couldn’t play the field at all, lest his knees blow up and you lose him for an extended period. Despite not playing the outfield for a single game this year, on Thursday Girardi said (on WFAN) that “They only had to drain Hideki’s knees 3 times this year” meaning that was a big improvement over last year. The contract is one they wouldn’t repeat in hindsight, Matsui’s gone.
So we replace a hitter of Matsui’s caliber for a relief pitcher or a third catcher? That’s not nearly worth his offensive production.
What if that 3rd Catcher is Jesus Montero by mid-season?
But seriously, I see Posada at DH for about 50-60 games next year. So you’ll need the extra catcher when you pinch run for Posada late in games and vacate the DH, or if the starting catcher was to get hurt.
Matsui was every bit the “iron man” in 03, 04 & 05. He played every day and put up huge numbers. 2006 is the year where he had that fluke injury to his wrist. It wasn’t until the last three years where his knees – and his play in the field – became a problem. And it wasn’t until this year that he became a full-time DH, but even then his production at the plate was fantastic.
Also, let’s not forget his numbers in the postseason are better in every regard; small sample size or not.
I agree he won’t be back next season (nor do I want him to, personally) but I think it was a good signing by the Yanks all-in-all.
I agree with everythig said.
Honestly I don’t know who I want, and I wouldn’t be completely opposed to resigning Matsui, but if we get rid of him we can’t just replace him with backup caliber players. That’s an enormous hit.
I agree, when I said the contract didn’t work out, I was referring to the 2nd one signed in 06, not the original one from 03.
Is this the same Peter Gammons who claimed the Red Sox wouldn’t trade Brad Penny unless they received a “Justin Smoak type bat” in return?
that was Buster Olney. I still crack up whenever I think of that.
No, it wasn’t Olney or Gammons. What actually happened was, Gammons said this:
So, it was Gammons and not Olney who said it… except he didn’t really say it either.
Damn, I could have sworn I heard Olney say the same thing on espn. Oh well, my bad.
i was thinking about matt holliday today after reading the kurkjian piece. is the economy still bad enough to impact what boras is able get for him? did the angels put things back to “normal” with the new abreu contract? in terms of roster flexibility, would cashman consider letting damon AND matsui go, replacing damon with holliday, and having the dh be a “rotating old guy” spot (maybe montero later in the year)? i don’t love holliday (road splits defense etc) and have been assuming we pass, but i wonder if cashman will decide to make a run at him?
also: rich harden or ben sheets. worth a chance?
I don’t know if anybody is watching the AFL on MLBN but Tony Clark is a terrible commentator. I swear, if he says “I’ll tell you what” one more time I might go insane. I love Tony, but some people just weren’t meant for color commentary.
Holy shit. I just joined National Novel Writng Month. WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY?!?!?!? I have no time to do this. I’m an idiot.
masochist.
I’ve tried it before, can never do it.
Lackey is the only free agent this year that is worth the big contract he’s going to get. I don’t think the Yankees will get him because they’ve got CC and AJ on long term deals and other teams need him more.
I think the Yankees are going to go with the idea of signing short term deals until guys that are actually worth the money (CC, Teixeira) are available.
I don’t think Johnny Damon or Hideki Matsui will get contract offers from other teams that the Yankees won’t be able to match. The Angels just gave Abreu a 2 year $18M deal. Johnny Damon had slightly better numbers at the plate, he was a far better hitter at home, had 18 fewer stolen bases, and is more injury prone. I’m expecting Damon to sign a similar deal as Abreu.
Matsui’s only options are in the AL because of his knee problems and I think his first choice is definitely the Yankees. I wouldn’t be surprised for Cashman to make his first offers to both guys and then wait for them to come back with other offers to possibly match. Cashman won’t negotiate on years, but I could see him paying a bit more than he wants to to keep these guys here.
Lackey is the only free agent this year that is worth the big contract he’s going to get.
Totally disagree. His stuff is already declining, and giving long term deals to pitchers on the wrong side of 30 are risky at best. When he first came up, he worked around 96 MPH with his fastball. He’s now down to 91.5, and it’s safe to assume his stuff will diminish further over the course of a 5 year deal. He’ll be working in the high 80’s by the end of the deal, and likely won’t be nearly as effective.
Lackey had his best years already, and is unlikely to repeat them at his age going forward. Best place he could land is in the NL in a pitcher’s ballpark, like Citifield. Then he might be worth the investment. But not at YS3.
Curtis Granderson intrigues me if Cash can buy low. Also, Crawford if TB declines the club option.
Also, Crawford if TB declines the club option.
Which probably won’t happen.
hah I wish. Neither are going to happen.
The Yanks have to let Damon or Matsui move on. This is a great chance for the Yanks to get younger even if both players could be signed to 1 or 2 year contracts.
I try to pry Figgins away from LA. Make the Angels sign him to a 4 year deal in order to lock him up. Just maybe the Yanks can steal him away for a 3 year contract. The guy can play LF, and be great insurance/utility player for 3B and 2B.
Then I probably try and sign Damon to a 1 or 2 year deal and use him primarily at DH.
It isn’t easy letting Matsui go but I just don’t see the point in re-signing him as our primary DH. Unless the Yanks feel that the money he brings in is to great to watch let go, then I could see him sticking around.
Figgins isnt a LF, and hasnt played there in what 3 seasons?
The guy has the tools to play a corner outfield spot. It was only 3 years ago he was playing CF.
“It was only 3 years ago he was playing CF.”
… and only 6 years ago that he was playing a GOOD centerfield.
Figgins, CF innings, UZR, and UZR/150
2003: 354.2 inn, +9.2, +36.4
2004: 336.0 inn, -3.9, -15.5
2005: 398.1 inn, -3.8, -12.1
2006: 829.0 inn, -7.2, -9.1
2007: no innings in CF
2008: no innings in CF
2009: no innings in CF
Chone Figgins was such a marvel in CF in 2006 that the Angels went out and dropped 50M on HgH Matthews Jr. to man the spot. That should tell you something.
Figgins isn’t “young”
Mike Dunn got the win wooooooo!
Whats all thios crap about going cheap and worrying about the payroll and what people withh thibnk about the payroll? I dont want a crappy team next year hile the sox and other teams load up. I would hate to see the Yanks go cheap. If there is a pplayer out there that can help you gop get him. I am reading all these posts about a quiet winter? why? Why would the Yankees all of a sudden be checp. They never have before.
Wild guess-This was posted on your phone.
Try using a pencil or something when you type.
Your the one who posted all this nonsense about a quiet winter. How do you know that? Why would the Yankees stand pat while the other teams get stronger? I will tell you exactly when the Yankees will do something. If/when you see the following headline in the Boston Globe: Red Sox aquire Halladay or red sox aquire Adrian Gonzalez. If one of those things happen will it still be a quite winter. Now is not the time to cheap out now is the time to be more aggressive. Make the team even better and go for 28. Why qould the Yankees care about what baseball feels about their payroll?
Your the one who posted all this nonsense about a quiet winter. How do you know that?
First, thanks for referring to my post as nonsense. Much appreciated. Next, I don’t know, it’s simply my opinion based on looking at the FA market and the Yanks needs. One that is shared by most Yankee beat reporters.
Why would the Yankees stand pat while the other teams get stronger? I will tell you exactly when the Yankees will do something. If/when you see the following headline in the Boston Globe: Red Sox acquire Halladay or red sox acquire Adrian Gonzalez. If one of those things happen will it still be a quiet winter?
Neither of those things has happened or is likely to happen. A-Gon hasn’t even officially been put on the market and will cost a kings ransom if he does. Halladay is unlikely to be traded to the Red Sox for the same reason he won’t be traded to the Yanks. The Blue jays won’t trade him within the division. Plus, your scenario has the Yanks making a panic move based on something the Sox do. You may panic, I highly doubt the Yanks will.
Now is not the time to cheap out now is the time to be more aggressive. Make the team even better and go for 28. Why would the Yankees care about what baseball feels about their payroll?
Because the CBA with the MLBPA is coming up in 2011, and the Yanks could be hit with higher luxury tax rates and/or a lower threshold for paying it. With a 1.6 billion dollar stadium to pay debt service on, that could be a big problem. Paring down payroll heading into 2011 could serve 2 purposes. To take some steam away from their opposition and to be in a better position should they be forced to lower payroll in 2012.
My apologies for the nonsense remark. However you mention many times about the “need” to lowerpayroll. I have enever heard anything about the Yankees being in financial distress. I would say that a rotation of Halladay-Lester-Beckett would be formidable. Would you still feel confident about the Yankees chanes were the Sox to get Halladay. Its not a panic move its called keeping up the competition.When it comes to money why would they care about what their opposition thinks-I dont get thta at all. The point of this whole thing is to win not appease.
No, it’s a panic move. You never, ever, make decisions based on what your opposition does. That’s fleeting strategy, and it often leads to disaster. You come up with your own plan and you stick with it.
I disagree Joe, you have to at least be cognizant of what your principal opposition is doing. If the Sox did get a big time pitcher dont you the Yanks might reevaluate their own team and determine maybe we need to get stronger because now our opposition will be that much stronger? I cannot imagine that does not go on.
They might consider it, but why would you divert from your own plan because someone else did something?
If you constantly employ tactics that are inconsistent with your long-term strategy just because your opponent did something, you’re going to lose. You have to stick with what you want to do.
The only time I referred to “need” was the Yanks roster needs in the post above yours. Maybe you misunderstood that, or you’re confusing me with someone else.
The Yankees DON’T care about what the rest of baseball feels about their payroll. They still don’t want to increase their payroll, however, because it’s not the best move in the long term interests of the team.
A) There are youngsters we have that will soon need expensive contract extensions (Joba and Hughes), so dollars we give to FA imports may be better saved so they can be spent on them;
B) there’s quality young talent in the farm system who can plug holes capably (Melancon, Kennedy, Nova, McAllister, Montero, AJax), and signing FA imports would needlessly block their paths and just require a trade down the road (with depreciation factored in);
C) there are potentially better FA’s available in later offseasons (like Pujols, Mauer, Crawford, Felix Hernandez, etc.) and committing money to guys like Lackey/Holliday/Bay/Figgins etc. is a poor investment choice when compared to those other options who are younger, better, or both.
Yes, we have money to spend, and yes, it’s a powerful weapon. That doesn’t mean you should shoot all your ammo now because you have it. The prudent strategy is often to wait patiently.
What happens in the meantime? you let your enemies get stronger while you watch. Here is where I agree with you if you tell me that we are saving money for a run at King Felix. I would be ok with that. However to imply that the team needs to stand pat because they just won or care what baseball thinks is not how I perceive the Yankees do business. Again I know you will disagree with me but the Yankees do have some question marks. Rotation-cc-very strong-aj-strong-Pettite if he returns he should be ok. If you tell me we will se the real Joba I would be happy with him in the rotation. Same with Hughes but that is still dicey.I have been alll along requesting the Yanks get Hallady, let me ask you if they could get Halladay for a similar deal that the Phils got lee would you do it?
Anyone who’s followed the team as closely as you and I have knows that when Cashman took control in 06, the team fundamentally changed the way it operates. The big FA under the X-Mas tree every year was how we got into the inflexible roster mess were just starting to dig out of. Cashman believes in more development from within, and preferring to delve into the FA market just for premium, no-brainer types. Last year there was 3 of them. This year. . I just don’t see it.
Same question to you that I gave TOTJSC-If the Yanks could make the move for Halladay and gie up relatively what the Phils gave up for Lee? would you do it? I am not saying you sign someone to sign someone. Lets be honest Daon and Matsui are not getting younger-Holliday to me is a pretty damnd good player and he wants to come to NY. Also a good move might end up being Chapman point is there are players out there who can help and you have to look at that.
OK, let me try this. You’re the Blue Jays GM. You have 3 comparable offers on the table for Roy Halladay. One from the Yanks, one from the Red Sox and one from the Phillies. Where do YOU send him?
Obviuosly Philadelphia. Now let me ask you this?Name five teams outside the sox and ayankes who will make a serious moveor Halladay. Now name me of those teams which one he will a-agree to a trade to? B-Will have the money to give him the extesnion he will want?.
you keep saying this, but it’s not a given that Halladay has to get an extension now.
I guess we disagree on this one. I think because you are a 32 year old pitcher you probably want your extesnion sooner than later. If your the team aquiring Halladay you would want him to sign a long term deal before you give away a lot of your farm syatem.
i just happen to think that Halladay will age VERY well.
he doesn’t throw that hard. he relies on perfect control and a heavy sink. doesn’t throw sliders.
and he has perfect mechanics.
i’d rather have Doc at 33 than Johan at 29.
Just so we’re clear, Halladay isn’t getting any younger, either. Nor is anyone on the planet.
No, but Mariano isn’t getting any older.
That receding hairline isn’t age, it’s his body ascending to Heaven bit by bit.
I’m convinced that the day he retires, a beam of light will come down from the sky and take him directly from the mound to his rightful place in Paradise. He doesn’t get a monument, he gets a Church built in his honor.
What would it take to trade for Heyward? Joba, and Cano?
The Yankees aren’t trading for Heyward.
yeah, trades like that just don’t happen.
Just to entertain the idea of leaving Hughes and Joba in the pen…
1. it creates a killer bullpen with Hughes, Joba and Mo. Would they even need a lefty specailist? Starters only need to go 6 inngs with that pen.
2. It obviously creates a gap in the rotation. So assuming the Yanks sign someone like Lackey we need Pettite to return to have a rotation of CC, Lackey, Burnett, Pettite and ?.
3. is that roation managable if you skip the # 5 guy when possible and occasional pitch the other four on 3 days rest after they throw a 6 inning game where the pen picks up the last 3 innings?
Sign Mike Gonzalez that dude from Atlanta.Or possibl JJ Putz or trade for Heath bell.
I think the pen, even w/o Joba and Hughes, is still money. You got Mo, Marte, Robertson, Ace, Melancon, Coke, and probably Gaudin. That is a pretty good bullpen. This year, the Yankees have to make final decisions on Joba and Hughes, whatever they decide, that is it. I think Joba is going to regain most of his velocity this year, and I think Hughes regained his confidence, and I expect pretty good years out of them in the rotation.
I feel like the Yankees have to get more creative this year because the Free Agent class is so weak. Boston did a pretty good job trading for Hermida, I think the Yanks really need to dip into the Trade Market this year in order to get elite talent. If I were Cashman, I’d be offering up guys like Joba, Hughes, Cano, and Swisher. I think a package with a couple of those guys could net us some big time talent. We are in desperate need of young elite outfielders, and a good starting pitcher would help.
I dont think you get rid of good young talent to get talent, unles its felix hernandez. Other than that I would stay with gusy you mentioned. I am a huge Hlladay guy depending on what it would take to get him. I know most people say you have to sell the whole farm . iam not sure of that Philly did not give away teh farm for Cliff Lee. This team won it all as which is great. However good will can be fleeting and when your on top you get stronger, not stand pat.
I here what your saying, and I agree, we definitely cant stand pat, we have to keep getting stronger. I think the biggest question mark going into next year is definitely the rotation. The only thing I’m saying though is that Cano is the type of guy who I don’t think will ever live up to his complete talent. He had an outstanding year this year, but at the same time, who’s to say he wont have a year like 08 again. I just think the Yankees have a golden chip in their hands with Cano, and packaging him with Joba or Hughes, could net us a very big return in a young pitcher or outfielder.
I was with you until the part about giving up on Cano. I dont buy that. To good to young and to valuable. Your only going to replace him if you get Chase Utley or Aaron Hill which wont happen. As I said if you can get Roy Halladay on a cliff lee type deal then you go cc-AJ-Halladay-Joba-Hughes. I am very happy with that
What do you guys think it will take to get Halladay this off-season, definitely less than at the deadline last year, but what might it take?
Halladay benefits us in two ways. One, he tremendously strengthens our rotation, and two, he will net us two top draft picks next off-season if we let him go, which I would.
Your wrong becuse he is a 10-5 guy and he willnot agree to a trade unless he signs an extension. He ebenfits in two way, he wins and he goes deep into games. You know who will love Hallday-Mariano Rivera.
CC to Mo, Doc to Mo, Hughes in TX to Mo
this is all batshit insane.
trading Joba, Hughes, Cano, and Swisher doesn’t FILL holes, it creates holes.
you’re worried b/c the Sox traded for a guy who is a worse player than all four of the yankees you want to trade? WTF?
Your right Hermida is a decent player at best. That is a move to replace Baldelli when he leaves. I do worry about the sox getting a Halladay or an Adrian Gonzalez. The point I made was why would the Yankees cheap out and why would they worry about what people think of the payroll. I like the idea of phil and Joba in the rotation, however if you dod that maybe a mike gonzalez, Heath Bell, JJ Putz would be a good sign.
i don’t think anyone wants the yankees to “cheap out” just for the sake of saving money.
i think they gist of it is that NEXT YEAR’S class of free agents is much more appealling, so you don’t want to tie up big money this year.
for example, you don’t want to lock up Lackey b/c then next year, you’ll have $60M committed to 3 starters and that means you probably can’t sign Halladay.
it’s not about being cheap, it’s about making the best long term decisions.
kindof like passing on Johan for CC.
yes, that means next year we might actually have to break a sweat to win it all.
That sucks-I am not a huge Lackey fan myself. However if Hallday gets dealt you can bet he will sign a long term deal with whoever signs him. Felix is not a FA until after 2011-No guarantees those guys will get to free agencey.
However if Hallday gets dealt you can bet he will sign a long term deal with whoever signs him
why? Halladay is very wealthy already. why not wait for Free Agency and let everyone bid? what if he’s traded to the Brewers?
He can veto a trade to the Brewers.
sure, but after what happened at the deadline this year, do you think he’ll block a trade to a team that has a shot at contending?
why would he stay?
he’s no better off financially but now he’ll have a chance to win.
he wasn’t going to sign an extension at the deadline if he went to Philly. that was one of the reasons a trade didn’t get done.
Exactly, he is definitely hitting Free Agency, there is no question. A team trading for him is just gonna have to accept that they will likely have him for only one season. I think the Yanks, if they trade for him, are fine with having him for only one season, because they can get a great year out of him, and then let another team tie up all their money with him next off-season, while the Yanks collect two 1st rnd draft picks. It’s the best of both worlds if the Yanks trade for halladay this off-season. Philly gave up a mediocre package of players in the Lee deal, and Philly will have Lee for 1.5 seasons. A team trading for Halladay will only have him for 1 year, so Toronto can’t ask for that much in return. A top prospect, and two mediocres should get it done
well, he might sign an extension with the YANKEES.
that’s slightly different.
b/c the whole point of getting to FA is to get the Yankees involved anyway.
he is a 10-5 guy do you think he would go to milwaukee withiut an extension and when he knows he could go to a more competitive team like NY BOSTON. Halladay can essentially pick his next team he an box in the Blue Jays as Randy Johnson did the DBACKS. Halladay can say I only want to go to the Yanks and either Tornonto has to move him for less than equal value or take the draft picks.
or, they could just wait until the deadline and make a Sabathia-LaPorta type deal.
surely he won’t block a trade for 2 months to a contender.
my point is this: the Yankees are NOT going to, b/c of Halladay’s NTC, get an Abreu-type trade.
Halladay won’t want to sign an extension, it would be the team trading for him who wants the extension. Why would a player, a year away from free agency, want to sign an extension when he could probably make a boat load in free agency. When the Mets traded for Johan, they wanted to sign him to an extension, not the other way around. That’s why everyone thinks it will be easier to get Halladay this off-season, because you only get him for 1 season so the Jays can’t ask for that much in return.
I didn’t say trade all of them, I said trade a couple of them. And I’m not worried, I’m just giving an example. One of Joba or Hughes, along with Cano could get us a big time talent.
Could it, though? And even if it could, you’re creating two holes to make one thing, presumably starting pitching, stronger. I’d rather stick with the young guys we have than trade a few of them away for one player.
Joe, Do you think the Yankees are at all inclined to maybe call up Montero mid-season to be our DH? the bat is defintely ready now right?
Not unless he’s absolutely destroying AAA and there’s a clear lineup need. Plus, they still want to develop his skills behind the plate. That’s an important part of the process.
Yeah, I brought this up earlier as a joke. I didn’t think anyone would take it seriously. I could see him getting a cup of coffee next year, but not regular playing time, unless of course someone gets hurt.
We, as fans, really need to cool it with the calls to promote every prospect who performs well at whatever respective level of the minors he’s at. People (with some obvious exceptions) seem pretty decent about not freaking out when a guy has a bad week or month, but when a guy has a good week or month all of a sudden everyone thinks that guy NEEDS to get promoted to the next level. (And no, I’m not saying Montero has only had a good week or month.) Montero has had a portion of a season at AA and still, according to even the more optimistic observers, has a lot of room for improvement behind the plate. What say we cool it with the yearning to see the guy in the Bronx in 2010 and just let him start the season in AA and see what happens.
Think of it like school. The best students don’t get promoted every year in the middle of the school year just because they have straight A’s, because they still have learning and growing to do no matter how well they may be performing. Prospects aren’t a whole lot different. Unless a guy shows that he’s just too mature and advanced for a particular level (akin to being a smart 20 year old taking high school level courses), there shouldn’t be any rush to promote the guy, even if he’s performing well.
Damn, for a team that just blew through the AL and coasted to a World Series title, we sure do seem to need to make a lot of changes according to many fans. Trades, free agent signings, etc. I had no idea we had so many gaping holes on this roster.
“coasted”?!
they lost FOUR games! all b/c Cashman didn’t get a better fourth starter!!
/Lombardi’ed
Haha, you’re right, believe me, I am ecstatic that they won the Series this year, and they were a great team, very fun to watch, but we do have a couple question marks goin into next year. Let’s face it, we were very fortunate to get through with just three starters, and you have to worry about the pitchers workloads going into next year. Our only questions are in the back end of the rotation, and in the outfield.
I know. It’s the off season, were going to be kicking all sorts of stuff around.
The one thing that no one’s discussing is what I consider to be their most glaring need. A primary set up man (’8th inning guy’) to replace Hughes. He’ll be very hard to replace next year, I wouldn’t mind bringing in another reliever.
Robertson?
+1
Robertson… Marte will probably play a beefed-up role… Hopefully Melancon takes a step forward… Hopefully Bruney can give you something useful in 2010 if he’s back… And you’ve always got the assorted minor league arms who might be effective out of the MLB ‘pen. If the Yanks can get a guy on a team-favorable contract, I don’t think anyone would have a problem with that, I’m just not sure who that’d be or whether it’s realistic to expect that to happen. The organizational philosophy seems to be to move away from signing veteran relievers and to mix and match during the season until the ‘pen takes shape; I’d expect them to continue on that path. They’ve done a real nice job the last couple of seasons with this new gameplan, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them stay out of the free agent reliever market.
Anyone else expecting a big year from AJAX?
Nope.
oh yea.
in AAA, maybe. If/when he gets called up, I’d be very surprised if he managed an OPS+ of 100 this year. not to say he won’t, just i still think he’s a ways away from reaching his potential/ceiling, which i also don’t think is as high as some people make it out to be. My guess is he ends up somewhere between Mike Cameron w/ less power and Carl Crawford with less speed. If he ends up in the Curtis Granderson range, I’d be pretty pleased.
Bill James projects AJAX to put up a .297/.356/.411 line in 282 At-Bats on the Yanks next year, if he’s called up.