Nov
08

Open Thread: Important Offseason Dates

By

Now that we’ve all recovered from the madness of the last five days (somewhat), let’s take a second to look ahead to the offseason. Here’s a roundup of the important dates you need to know about for the winter.

  • November 9th-11th: GM Meetings in Chicago. Definitely not as exciting as the Winter Meetings, though you may see a deal or two get done.
  • November 20th: Players who filed for free agency officially hit the open market. Prior to this date, they are only able to negotiate with their current team.
  • December 1st: Last day for teams to offer their free agents arbitration. Any Type-A or Type-B free agents that sign with a new team before their old  team offered arbitration do bring back compensation draft picks.
  • December 7th-10th: Winter Meetings in Indianapolis. Total chaos.
  • December 10th: Rule 5 Draft. Last year, players had to be added to the 40-man roster on November 20th to avoid being eligible, but I’m not sure what that date is this season.
  • December 12th: Last day for teams to tender contracts to unsigned players, a.k.a. no-tender day. Could easily be Brian Bruney’s last day as a Yankee.
  • January 5th-15th: Salary arbitration filing period.
  • January 19th: Teams and players exchange salary figures for arbitration.
  • February 1st-21st: Arbitration hearings.
  • March 2nd-11th: Teams can renew the contracts of pre-arbitration eligible players (0-3 years of service time) if they have not yet accepted an offer. Teams can renew players for pretty much any salary they want, though most teams (Yankees included) have a scale they use that bases a player’s salary on service time.
  • March 17th: Last day to put a player on unconditional release waivers and pay only 30 days of termination pay. After this date, teams must pay 45 days worth of termination pay.
  • March 31st: Last day to put a player on unconditional release waivers and pay only 45 days of termination pay. After this date, teams must pay the player their full 2010 salary.
  • April 4th: Opening Day, rosters must be cut down to 25 players.

So that’s that. Now if you have any questions about when a team has to offer a player arbitration or anything like that, you can always refer back to this post.

Anyway, use this as your open thread for the night. The Cowboys and Eagles are your late game, and there’s also some new episodes of Family Guy and American Dad on as well. Some say Seth MacFarlane is a one trick pony, but I still enjoy it. Anything goes, just be nice.

219 Comments»

  1. Salty Buggah says:

    3 OTs in one day? Is that a record

  2. Salty Buggah says:

    I remember how the Hot Stove season last year was one of the most exciting in recent years. We were anxiously waiting on the 3 guys I really wanted and we got them all. I remember hearing the news coming out for AJ, CC, and then Tex. Man, that was really exciting.

    • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

      When Tex was signed I was in such a great mood for weeks. Boston was panicking, the whole world turned against the Yankees, and at that time everybody knew that we were set up for a great season.

  3. Zack says:

    Man this is going to be a slowwww 2 weeks for baseball news IMO.

  4. Salty Buggah says:

    You guys going to the winter meeting again this year? What did guys do (besides the Vegas stuff)there last year?

  5. The Artist says:

    http://insider.espn.go.com/esp.....ney_buster

    Buster Onley seems to think the non tender market will be flooded this year, so there could be a lot of player movement. He says its a sign that the arbitration process simply doesn’t work anymore, but I suspect the MLBPA won’t want to change anything.

    • Zack says:

      Yeah it’s letting high payroll teams like the Yankees steal young talent who get too expensive, like Jeremy Hermida, from small market teams, wait what?

      But isnt the arbitration process only outdated because what happened to the economy? You cant expect them to suddenly change the system because of 1 or 2 years. And like you said, the player’s union wouldnt, nor should they, change it so their members get less money.

      • The Artist says:

        Right, but it cuts both ways. The arb process drives salaries up, but non-tenders have to sing for their supper.

        Reforming the arb rules makes the most sense to me, where the judges would get to weigh performance more heavily. Now, it’s most based on service time. If performance was more of a factor, teams would be more willing to take their chances with the arb process.

  6. Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

    Giants are totally finished.

    Now I am a HUGE Coughlin fan and think he’s an outstanding coach, but he lost the game (and season) when he called for two run plays on 2nd and 3rd and goal. That’s bullshit. You don’t just give Phillip Rivers the ball with 2 minutes left and a chance to win the game against a defense that just got torched by Mcnabb, Brees, and Warner. Just awful, awful playcalling.

    On a happy note, I’m recording the MLB path to the Championship show at 9:00!

    • The Artist says:

      Now I am a HUGE Coughlin fan and think he’s an outstanding coach, but he lost the game (and season) when he called for two run plays on 2nd and 3rd and goal.

      Seriously? The season? I understand you’re upset after another big loss, but try reading that again in an hour or two after you’ve calmed down. You’ll realize how silly what you just said is.

      • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

        4 losses in a row, there is no way they’re coming back from that. None. not with the way they’ve played, the division they’re in, and the schedule they have.

          • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

            Seriously, I’m going to try and figure out the last team that lost four games in a row and made the playoffs.

            • Don’t waste your brain cells. The fact that you lost four in a row is offset by the fact that you won five in a row before that. If these losses had been interspersed (i.e. W-L-W-L-W-L-W-L-W), you’d feel a lot more confident. If you started with a four game losing streak and then had won five in a row, you’d feel much better.

              You’re overreacting again to the visceral emotion of the whole thing. Fact remains, no matter what order your wins and losses came in, the Giants are still going to be only a game back in the win column and two games back in the loss column, with half a season left to play.

              The number of teams who made the playoffs in a season where they lost four games may be small or nonexistent, but it’s not relevant. Go look up how many 5-4 teams ever won the division when trailing a first place team who was 6-2. I bet you’ll find out the number is quite sizable.

              Remember when we lost 8 straight to the Sox, and there was no way we were making the playoffs? Yeah. Back up from the cliff.

              • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

                Different though. They’ve not only lost four in a row, they’ve looked bad doing it. And the baseball season is a very different animal from the football season. Momentum is more real in football than baseball. The Giants defense has played awful, they’ve committed penalties, they’ve lost both close games and blowouts.

                I don’t see them making the playoffs.

              • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

                And if we do make the playoffs, my respone will be the same as The Artist’s when he said there was no way we were coming back vs. Nathan game 2 of the ALDS. He said (paraphrased):

                “Reverse psychology, my friends. Because what we say and do on this blog has a very real impact on what happens on the field.”

              • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

                Just 1 more thing…found this browsing Ask.com, from 06′ about Denver:

                “Denver is trying to become the ninth team since 1997 to endure a four-game losing streak and advance to the postseason. Only one team in the past 10 years, the 1997 Vikings, has lost five straight and made the playoffs.”

    • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

      Sorry guys, did not notice the Giants-Chargers thread next to this one. My bad.

    • Reggie C. says:

      I dont know why Coughlin doesn’t just let Eli go to Nicks on a shuttle pass.

      On a night Brandon Jacobs appeared strong, Ahmad Bradshaw comes up woefully inadequate. The offense has no balance. Eli has lost the ability to make big plays.

      • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

        I disagree about Eli. He played great.

        Tynes, the playcalling, penalties, and atrocious defense on the final drive lost this game. Eli did not. The running game did not.

        • Reggie C. says:

          Defensively … wtf has happened?

          This pass rush has been soooo disappointing. The secondary is banged up but i would think this is something that will eventually get better as players start healing.

          • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

            What’s weird is that the pass rush is the only thing NOT injured, yet they suck.

  7. “December 7th-10th: Winter Meetings in Indianapolis. Total chaos.”

    Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes! The dead rising from the grave! HUMAN SACRIFICE, DOGS AND CATS LIVING TOGETHER!!! MASS HYSTERIA!

  8. Hey, Giants fans, it ain’t all bad, you could be Jets fans…

    Oh, and I know now that Mariano is worth 2 championships all by his lonesome and have the stats to back it up.

    I’ll share tommorrow. You guys are gonna keel and it’s gonna be awesome to behold.

  9. Greg G. says:

    Hey, you guys going to the Winter Meetings again this year?

  10. Ivan says:

    Holy crap, they coming out with a “Prince Of Persia” movie.

  11. Put on MLB network for top of the ninth game 4–IE Damon’s STEAL OF DOOM

  12. pat says:

    OO man this should be a fun off season to read Sox blogs to see the asinine trade proposals and insane overrating of their prospects. Reddick, Kelly and Bowden for A-Gonz? Sure! Kalish, LaRoche, Anderson and Stolmy Pimentel for King Felix? Of course! Westmoreland, Tazawa, Hermida and Navarro for Hanley? Get it done Theo!

    • Steve H says:

      Not only are they waiving the mandatory 5 year window for HOF eligibilty for Casey Kelly, they are actually waiving him ever having to play. His induction is scheduled for November 23rd, they aren’t even going to wait for the customary mid-summer inductions.

  13. So, Mike, are you guys going to do a review of the RAB Fantasy Football League? And what about a RAB Fantasy Basketball League?

  14. Camilo Gerardo - your inception? fuck perception, go with what makes sense says:

    Re: gigantes. Hope they don’t line canty up on end anymore, hehe

    i expect a slow offseason this time around. our rotation is golden CC, AJ, Pett? Joba, Phil. CMW, IPK, Nova, McAllister,

    Damon/Sui/The Field for two positions is an issue

  15. gxpanos says:

    Guys, have we talked about Javy Vasquez?

    1 year, 11.5 mil, Braves may want to move him to get some value…has that ship really sailed? I would argue that it should never have sailed for RJ in the first place.

    He’s insanely durable, contract year…I can easily see 210 IP, 4.10 ERA for the Yanks.

    Any idea what he’d cost in talent? Or am I being thick because it’s way too expensive (11.5 mil and the prospects) for a fourth starter?

    • The Artist says:

      Been there, done that. A better manager and coaching staff this time around might yield better results, but the Yanks usually don’t go back to the well on players that didn’t work out the 1st time.

      • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

        BETTER MANAGER?

        Not a Torre fan?

        • The Artist says:

          Nope. I’m amazed how many Sabermetrically-inclined bloggers (who will be the first to jump all over old school Baseball types) embrace Torre, when he epitomizes that very line of thinking. If you read his book, the rift between him and Cash became most pronounced when Cash started becoming ‘a numbers guy’.

          In his later years with the team, I thought his approach to managing was lazy, entitled and self-absorbed. Was glad to see him go, and was a big supporter of Girardi taking his place.

          • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

            So you think Torre is a great manager but became worse in his final few years?

          • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

            BTW, I thought it was interesting how in the book when Theo, a numbers guy, became the Red Sox GM the Sox were “moving in the right direction”, but when Cashman becomes a numbers guy he “can’t forget the game has a heartbeat”.

            WTF was the difference except that Theo got luckier in the guys he chose?

            • The Artist says:

              The thing about Torre’s book is that it was written by Verducci (who mostly embraces sabermetrics)but many of the quotes and stories were directly from Joe. So you had to separate the stuff that came from Torre from the rest of the book.

              • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

                Exactly. Which is why I don’t think the book is nearly as dmaning as people think toward Torre. For example, people say Torre turned on A-Rod, but in actuality Verducci wrote a lot of the shit about A-Rod. Torre didn’t say much at all, good or bad.

    • Or am I being thick because it’s way too expensive (11.5 mil and the prospects) for a fourth starter?

      I don’t know if “being too thick” is exactly the right phrase, but yeah, you’re way more interested in trading valuable prospects for Vazquez than I am.

      We don’t need a new marquee starting pitcher. We already have five.

      Let me say this again, louder:

      WE DON’T NEED A NEW MARQUEE STARTING PITCHER. WE ALREADY HAVE FIVE.

      • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

        Five?

        You consider Jobber and Hughes marquee?

        What do you expect out of them this year?

        • To pitch and keep improving.

          They both have legit ace potential. That makes them marquee starting pitchers who deserve a rotation spot.

          • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

            They have POTENTIAL but we do need to win.

            If the Red Sox substantially improve, which I believe they will, do you really think it will be good enough to have three good pitchers and two crapshoots?

            • Mike Pop says:

              Yes. Because for the long term it is the right answer. If the Yankees need to take some hits along the way next year like they did this year with Joba, it will be worth it for the long term future.

              • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

                But next year, if the Red Sox are better, we could be severely diminshing our chance to win a second straight WS for pitchers that only MIGHT be good.

                I like them both, but depth is a good thing.

                • Mike Pop says:

                  I guess. I just think Yankees fans worry about the Red Sox way too much.

                  The same problems the Yankees have(getting older, some pitching spots to fill, etc), they have the same. If they go and diminish their farm to bring in another good player, let them.

                  The Yankees are still a better team than them. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them make one big splash, but two, or three like people are saying? Yeah right…. and that’s what it would take them to compete with the Yankees ;)

                • I like them both, but depth is a good thing.

                  Depth is a good thing, yes.

                  You don’t trade good prospects for a guy like Javy Vazquez who’s making 11M for “depth”. You sign Justin Duchscherer to a 1/4M for “depth”.

                  Depth like Vasquez is overkill depth that forces you to make a secondary move of bumping someone from the rotation. That’s not depth, that’s a logjam.

                  Consider this: Why is Vazquez on the market in the first place? Because the Braves want to keep Tommy Hanson in the rotation, and Vazquez is superfluous. They don’t have depth, they have a logjam. They have 6 pitchers for 5 spots, and rather than just say “oh, we have depth, this is awesome”, they’d rather trade Vazquez and go sign some inferior, cheaper pitcher for depth because they don’t want to bump their talented but unproven and “only MIGHT be good” kid Tommy Hanson from the rotation.

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

                  Fair enough.

                • steve (different one) says:

                  Consider this: Why is Vazquez on the market in the first place?

                  b/c Lowe’s contract is untradeable.

                  yes, THAT. JUST. HAPPENED.

          • Mike Pop says:

            They both have legit ace potential. That makes them marquee starting pitchers who deserve a rotation spot.

            That doesn’t make them marquee starting pitchers. It makes them pitchers who deserve a rotation spot. Marquee starting pitchers are pitchers who have at least proved themselves…

      • gxpanos says:

        Really? I count 3.

        And when has depth ever hurt anyone? We saw this year how 6 at the beginning of the year can become 3 and Chad Gaudin by the end.

        Obviously with Vasquez, I wouldnt want to give up a whole lot, but I dont think we shouldnt discuss it just because we have two promising, young, but far-from-sure-thing starters.

        • whozat says:

          Why the hell would the braves give up Vasquez for “not that much”? If you consider him a good deal at his salary, why won’t there be other teams lining up to try to get him for this “not that much”? Why wouldn’t the Dodgers get involved and drive up the price? Why wouldn’t the Mets, Phillies, or the Brewers or Rangers?

          • gxpanos says:

            What am I, six years old now?

            I dont know how MLB trades work? I dont know that he’d be attractive to other teams?

            How do you know what I mean by “not that much?”

            I just wanted to get a discussion going.

            Caaaaalm.

            • whozat says:

              I dont know how MLB trades work? I dont know that he’d be attractive to other teams?

              Your comment certainly didn’t indicate that you’d thought about it.

              How do you know what I mean by “not that much?”

              I don’t. And you declined to tell us. It’s not that much of a conversation starter, then, is it?

              I just wanted to get a discussion going.

              The classic refuge of someone who didn’t really think before he spoke.

              Look, man, you’re cranky because I called out your ill-thought-out idea, so you’re acting like I’m yelling at you. I’m not, though. I’m pointing out that tossing a name out there, and then hedging by saying you’d only want him “if it didn’t cost that much” and then neglecting to say WHY you think he wouldn’t cost much — or even what “much” means — isn’t really interesting.

              • gxpanos says:

                Or, the classic refuge of someone who wants to get a discussion going.

                I was cranky because you internet-yelled at me for no real reason. Dont condescend to me.

                Great discussion we’ve had here about Javy though. Constructive, and fun.

    • Keanu Reeves says:

      No thanks. He’s an NL pitcher in my mind.

      • steve (different one) says:

        “in your mind” >> “627 innings of 106 ERA+ for the White Sox”

        • Joe D. says:

          Actually, 411 innings of 98 ERA+ (2 seasons)sandwiching
          and 1 season / 216 innings of 127 ERA+.

          Yes, you got the overall average right, but the shape is important, too.

          By ERA+, Javy was a below-average starting pitcher two of his three years with the White Sox. Javy was also below average for the Yanks.

          All said in told, Vazquez pitched four seasons in the AL. He was great in one of them, and below average in the other three.

          I think Javy is a good pitcher, but Keanu may have a point.

  16. Greg F. says:

    This is great. Thanks for this, Mike.

  17. The Artist says:

    I’ve posted this a few times, but it was buried in posts and we never really discussed it.

    I think the most glaring need the Yanks have this off season is primary set up man/8th inning guy. The production we got out of Phil Hughes last year (0.84 WHIP) will be very hard to replace. I assume Joba and Hughes are (correctly) heading to the rotation, so we’ll need a reliever or two this off season, either internally or FA.

    Any ideas?

    • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

      I disagree. Robertson IMO will make a fine setup man.

      • The Artist says:

        No disagreement, I said either internally or FA.

        I’m not sold on D-Rob getting that much responsibility. He performed well for us last year, but I still like him better a little lower in the food chain. I want someone who can attack the heart of someone’s lineup with the game on the line, not sure D-Rob is that guy. He’s good, but just a notch below to me.

        • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

          Robertson performed on a HUGE stage vs. Minny. He put out a great strikeout rate and pitched very, very well last year. Him and Marte could make a fine eighth inning combination.

          • The Artist says:

            He did, but mostly in low leverage work. His career walk rate in the minors worries me a bit, too.

            I know he got out of some big jams here and there, but I just doubt he can do that consistently.

    • The Artist says:

      Here’s the FA list

      http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.c.....gents.html

      Relief Pitchers
      Luis Ayala FLA
      Danys Baez BAL
      Miguel Batista SEA
      Joe Beimel COL (B)
      Joaquin Benoit TEX
      Rafael Betancourt * COL (A)
      Chad Bradford BAL
      Doug Brocail * HOU (B)
      Kiko Calero FLA (B)
      Elmer Dessens NYM
      Brendan Donnelly FLA
      Octavio Dotel CWS (A)
      Alan Embree COL
      Scott Eyre PHI (B)
      Josh Fogg COL
      Chad Fox CHC
      Ryan Franklin * STL
      Gary Glover WAS
      Mike Gonzalez ATL (A)
      Tom Gordon ARZ
      John Grabow CHC (A)
      Kevin Gregg CHC (A)
      Eddie Guardado TEX
      LaTroy Hawkins HOU (A)
      Mark Hendrickson BAL
      Matt Herges COL
      Trevor Hoffman MIL (A)
      Bobby Howry SF (B)
      Jason Isringhausen TB
      Masahide Kobayashi * CLE
      Brandon Lyon DET (B)
      Ron Mahay MIN
      Gary Majewski WAS
      Guillermo Mota LAD (B)
      Will Ohman * LAD (B)
      Darren Oliver LAA (A)
      Chan Ho Park PHI (B)
      Troy Percival TB
      J.J. Putz * NYM
      Juan Rincon COL
      Fernando Rodney DET (B)
      Duaner Sanchez NYM
      Scott Schoeneweis ARZ
      Brian Shouse * TB (B)
      Rafael Soriano ATL (A)
      Russ Springer TB (B)
      Brett Tomko OAK
      Jose Valverde HOU (A)
      Claudio Vargas MIL
      Ron Villone WAS
      Luis Vizcaino * COL
      Billy Wagner BOS (A)
      Jamie Walker BAL
      Jeff Weaver LAD
      Kip Wells CIN
      Jamey Wright KC

      • The Artist says:

        Of that list, only Gonzalez or Valverde interest me all that much. Not sure if they’ll want to set up, or how much they’ll expect to get paid. Valverde made 8 mil last year, Gonzalez 3.5.

        • Hey ZZ says:

          I think Cash is done investing in middle relievers. Outside of Mo and Marte I bet no one else in the bullpen makes more than $1 million.

          • The Artist says:

            Maybe, but I’ve always liked Gonzalez and I know Cash tried to get him a few years back when the Pirates traded him.

            • whozat says:

              Sure, but he cost less, had a time-limited commitment, and would have not have had any choice in the matter. Now, there’ll be teams offering him the opportunity to close on a 4 year deal.

              • The Artist says:

                We can offer him the same $ to set up.

                • whozat says:

                  Relievers are volatile. It’s dumb to lock yourself into long-term, expensive commitments with them. Look around at successful franchises. Which ones are still paying a premium for setup guys like that? Furthermore, Gonzalez knows that you get paid more for having the Closer moniker, and for racking up saves. Why would he choose to give that up? The Yanks would have to pay MORE to get him to do so.

                  Why would that be a good idea?

                • The Artist says:

                  Because I like the way he wiggles his ass before he throws each pitch.

            • Keanu Reeves says:

              I wouldn’t want to give up a draft pick for Gonzalez. Too risky in my opinion. If he couldn’t handle the 9th in Atlanta I don’t think he can handle the 8th in New York.

              • The Artist says:

                He closed for PITT the year he was traded, and logged 10 saves this year. I don’t think that’s the issue. But I like the idea he’s used to pitching the 8th, some closers don’t want to.

                Plus, he’s a Lefty so we can ditch Phil Coke.

                • Keanu Reeves says:

                  I know he’s had success as a closer in the past. But all I’m saying is if he couldn’t handle the 9th in the NL East, I don’t see him being able to consistently succeed as an 8th inning guy in the AL East.

                  I also think it’s way to early to give up on Coke. I realize he was awful in the postseason, but he was very good at some points during the year. I think he deserves another chance.

                  I also honestly think Coke is just as good as Gonzalez. That may be a little much, but I’m just not high on Gonzalez.

                • Keanu Reeves says:

                  I also think I sound really stupid saying I also think so many times in a comment.

      • Putz on a minor league deal (over at ~$1-2M) would do. Same for Billy Wagner.

    • Kick the tires on the Padres’ Heath Bell. I’m a big fan of his, he had a breakout year in 2009, and with all of the Pads’ financial troubles, hopefully you wouldn’t have to give up a whole lot.

      • whozat says:

        You act like no one else would be in on him. There are plenty of teams with plenty of money that will happily get in on Heath Bell. If the Yanks were about to steal him for like…Ivan Nova and Juan Miranda…why wouldn’t the Angels, Phillies or even the Red Sox beat that?

      • Zack says:

        They dont have financial troubles, the new guy already bought the team

    • Keanu Reeves says:

      I think the Yankees bullpen answers are internal. I just don’t see them spending money on a reliever this winter. Between Ace, Marte, D-Rob and Melancon, I’m really hoping someone will emerge.

      • The Artist says:

        I think most of the pen will come from inside, but can see them landing a veteran arm as some insurance.

        Whenever someone talks about the young guys, they say “hopefully” or “hoping” as you did. They need something more solid than that to solidify things so we can sort the young guys out.

        Don’t forget, we had some young and promising bullpen arms named Veras and Edwar Ramirez, and a year later they were off the team. Bullpen arms are like stocks, they go way up and way down from year to year.

        • “Don’t forget, we had some young and promising bullpen arms named Veras and Edwar Ramirez, and a year later they were off the team. Bullpen arms are like stocks, they go way up and way down from year to year.”

          Right, but that last part is also a good reason to not invest too much money in veteran relievers, isn’t it? If you can stockpile decent (cheap) young arms, some of whom will be effective and some of whom won’t, isn’t that a better way to go than throwing more money at a veteran who may be effective but may not be? I like the plan of having a bunch of arms ready to go and using the first 1/3 to 1/2 of the season to get the bullpen sorted out. They’ve already got 2 well-paid vets in that bullpen, I’m not sure I want to pay for another when some mix of the cheap guys will do the job pretty well.

          • The point I was trying to make and should have made is that the very example you cited, the fact that guys like Jose Veras and Edwar Ramirez were young and promising and a year later… well, weren’t… Is actually evidence that going with the young guys and not bothering with the higher-priced vets is a good strategy. Yeah, those guys were promising at one time, but when they weren’t anymore, the Yankees bullpen was just fine (and was pretty damned good) anyway.

            • It’s also a lot less costly when guys like Veras and Ramirez flame out than if a veteran FA guy does.

              • Less costly financially and roster-wise, since you don’t have the same pressure to keep a younger guy on the MLB roster if he’s not performing well. If Krazy Kyle (just to use an example of a more highly-paid reliever) sucks, too bad, you’re stuck with him. If Mark Melancon sucks… Go work it out in Scranton, bud, and let someone else take a shot.

                • The Artist says:

                  Agree 100%, but that doesn’t mean you never get a good reliable veteran reliever who has a good track record in favor of going all-kids. You can get a good veteran when you think it makes sense. Marte was a veteran lefty, and we went out and traded for him.

                • Oh totally… But we’ve already got Mo and Marte, I’m just not sure there’s a need for another. It’s not like we’re rolling with all kids. Like I said earlier today, if the right guy is out there and the Yanks could get him on a team-friendly contract, I’m all for it (even if the Yanks have a bunch of arms), I just don’t know that that guy is out there or that it’s realistic to think the Yanks could sign someone like that to the kind of contract that’d make it worthwhile instead of just going with the kids. Who knows, maybe with prices down and the economy struggling they can find a nice bargain. I guess we’ll see.

  18. Forgive me if this was mentioned this weekend, I haven’t been around much…

    …I saw on the ticker on MLBN that Justin Duchscherer was a notable free agent.

    Good thing for the Yanks, obv, but what kind of deal is he going to command?

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      Not a big one I would think with that injury. Plus he’s still trying to recover from his depression.

      • I agree, I think it’s a risk the Yanks should take, especially with Hughes going on the Joba plan in 2010.

        • JobaWockeeZ says:

          I doubt he’ll be going down a similar path to Joba. He already pitched a good amount of innings years back so he should be good for 160ish-170ish though he could go 180. They will probably take it easy to him so he’ll stop around there.

          It shouldn’t go to the point where he’s going to have 3 inning appearances.

        • Even if Hughes is limited to what Joba did this year, just under 160, the pitching staff could survive. Conservatively, they could bump Joba up to 190+ this season (they were more aggressive this season) and assuming Pettitte’s return:

          CC: 210-220
          A.J.: 195-210
          Andy: 195-200
          Joba: 190+
          Hughes: ~160

          They could definitely get by with that, assuming no one gets hurt. However, I’d definitely like to bring in J-Dukes or a swingman type guy who’s more inclined to starting.

    • I’d say $6-7M. But I think many of us have forgotten that he’s undergone treatment for depression. I don’t think it’s too wise to have him in NY nor do I think he’s really necessary.

  19. Salty Buggah says:

    Can’t wait until tomorrow. I have to do a presentation in Spanish on a Hispanic person so I doing it on A-Rod. Awesome!

  20. DJ says:

    Mike, when are you guys coming out with the 2010 top prospects list?

  21. I just spent a weekend in Phillies territory. It was nice seeing a dejected look on the faces of their fans.

  22. Glenallen Hill says:

    Hughes and Joba in the rotation to start next year? I don’t see it.

    I’d feel a little more comfortable with:

    CC
    AJ
    Andy
    Harden/Bedard/Washburn
    Joba

    Resign Damon
    Sign Cameron

    Duchscherer would be a decent sign if you can get him cheap. I just assume start Hughes than sign Duchscherer.

    • Hughes and Joba in the rotation to start next year? I don’t see it.

      Here, lemme help you:

      http://www.pearlevision.com/

    • Harden/Bedard/Washburn

      Harden: hard time staying healthy and is a 5 IP pitcher in the NL. No thank you.

      Bedard: Injuries abound! He’s also said he doesn’t want to be on a big stage. Pass.

      Washburn: Not a good pitcher. He’s really not even worth a first thought, let a lone a second one.

      I do like the Damon/Cameron idea (swap Damon for Matsui if you’d like, too) and the J-Dukes idea, and he could probably come cheap. He could definitely do what Aceves did this year, only he’d be much more reliable as a starter if someone did go down. Still, I’d roll with CC/AJ/Andy/Joba/Phil in my rotation.

      • Drew says:

        I’m not too high on Cam. Partly because it may affect Melk’s spot(I’m not sure if Cash would DH Johnny 100+ games, I think Damon will be playing LF if he’s resigned). Also, Cameron K’s a lot, I’m not so sure I want the K-rate of Swish and Cameron back to back in the bottom of our lineup.

        • That’s a fair enough point, but Cameron also walks quite a bit better than league average. He’s never been below it and has been in double digits in BB% every year since 1999 except ’05 w/the Mets. His .198 career IsoP is also very nice.

          As for Damon DH-ing, I think that’s where he’d spend the majority of his time if he’s the one who’s back, and not Matsui. The Yankees saw this year that the trick to keeping a good bat who’s aging and not 100% healthy healthy is to not let him play the field. If the Yankees can keep Damon in the lineup but out of the field, it will not only help him but it will help the team’s overall defense. Regardless of who plays left–Cabrera or Cameron–the defense is better than if Damon were out there.

        • Zack says:

          “I’m not so sure I want the K-rate of Swish and Cameron back to back in the bottom of our lineup.”

          Eh, #1 offense last year without Alex for 5 weeks, I think they can survive with adding a player with a high K rate if it means improving defense by A LOT.
          Everyone loves how Tex impacted the INF defense, you put Melky-Cameron in LF-CF and it’ll have similar result. You know like catching more balls and preventing guys from taking the extra base.

          • Drew says:

            Whether or not we “survive” is not the issue. We’ll kill it no matter what. I was just throwing that out there as a potential negative.

            • Zack says:

              No I understand, but IMO his high K rate isnt a factor in if I want him or not. It’s not on the same level as say if his OBP was .320 or something. Or if his arm was like Damon.

    • Drew says:

      So you give up on Phil Hughes the starter after 28 big league starts?

    • Zack says:

      You’re not comfortable with Joba/Hughes, but Bedard/Harden/Washburn lets you sleep well at night?

      Bedard- didnt like the media attention in SEATTLE, he’d be perfect for NY. Oh and the injuries. 2 shoulder surgeries in 2 years right? yeah sign me up for that.
      Harden- but tha STRIKEOUTS!!1!
      Washburn- um dont know what attracts you about him, probably just because his name was in trade discussion last year

  23. larryf says:

    So when do pitchers and catchers report to Tampa? Going to early spring training again! I like internal bullpen solutions. We’ve got the guys and the young guys have now had a year of experience under big-time pressure. I hope Eiland can teach the changeup. If we had some guys (other than CC and A-save-us) who could throw it for strikes behind in the count-it would be sweet!

  24. [...] wouldn’t expect much from the three-day event. The much anticipated Winter Meetings, held in Indianapolis later this year (12/07-12/10), will be where most of the action takes place. Still, if anything of note occurs with [...]

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