Open Thread: RAB Fantasy Football League Update


I’ve been intentionally been delaying my first fantasy football update this season, because frankly it’s been pretty bad for me. After a nice 2-1 start, I’ve since lost five of six, and I have just one of the 44 highest scoring players in the league. The main reason for my struggles are the hurt and/or underperforming Anquan Boldin and Terrell Owens, who I figured were good for double digit points on a weekly basis. Free agent pickup Nate Burleson has been my second best offensive player, and Ahmad Bradshaw has emerged as my second RB behind MJD.

Chad Pennington got hurt and Mark Sanchez wasn’t cutting it, so I swapped Knowshown Moreno for David Garrard. If that’s not enough, I have to face the teams currently ranked first and second in the league over the next two weeks, and I’ll face three of the top four teams in the next five weeks. Yippee. 2009 has not been kind of my fantasy teams, but if that’s the price I have to pay for the Yankees winning the World Series, then so be it.

Anyway, here’s your open thread for the night. None of the local teams are in action, so you’re stuck finding your own entertainment. Talk about whatever you want, just be cool. You can see the full fantasy football league standings are after the jump.

  1. Dirty Mark Sanchez, 8-1-0, 887.96 points
  2. JSBrendog (rocks), 7-2-0, 948.92
  3. Right Field Porches, 6-3-0, 967.92
  4. Greg Fertel, 5-4-0, 1006.52
  5. Tommie’s Champions, 5-4-0, 898.10
  6. Tommie’s Challenger, 5-4-0, 860.44
  7. baseballbackyet?, 5-4-0, 827.58
  8. The Highlanders, 5-4-0, 796.28
  9. Jamal G., 4-5-0, 920.20
  10. Vick Works at Petco, 4-5-0, 836.82
  11. grgoyldef2, 4-5-0, 817.42
  12. COLE†rain™, 3-6-0, 824.74
  13. Manimal, 3-6-0, 781.82
  14. Mike A., 3-6-0, 734.50
  15. Ken Phelps, 3-6-0, 657.30
  16. Kendra’s Basketts, 2-7-0, 696.88


  1. So did I succeed in my head explosion endeavour?

  2. Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

    Is Tommie’s Champions who I think it is…?

  3. Kendra’s Basketts: Last in our league, but first in our hearts. (probably NSFW)

  4. pat says:

    According to this thing the RAB twitter page is worth $819.

  5. Drew says:

    Ken Phelps Ken Phelps. Haha awesome name.

  6. Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

    Amid speculation about the pursuit John Lackey, the viability Chien-Ming Wang and the desire to bring back Andy Pettitte, there remains one ever-present question about the Yankees starting rotation. What will be done with the starters-turned-relievers? For the most part, general manager Brian Cashman has left all of next year’s questions unanswered until the organizaton’s internal meetings take place, but this afternoon he gave his opinion on Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain.

    “I look at them as starters that can relieve,” he said. “But I look at them as starters.”
    [Per LoHud. WTF does he mean by starters that can relieve? Gaudin type people?]

  7. Mike Pop says:

    So di Teix and Jeter deserve the gold gloves?

  8. Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

    Here’s an interesting question:

    Now I know it’s only been a one year and all of our shiny new toys(Swishy, Tex, CC, A.J.) have more time on their contracts except Pettite (who’s not so shiny and new), but was last year’s offseason the best in Yankee history?

    Consider that we got:

    . An legitimate young Ace with strikeout stuff and a terrific resume
    . One of the best young 1b in baseball, both offensively and defensively
    . A young, switch hitting, 20+HR, 370+OBP LF’er who we got for Wilson Betemit, cash, and other player(s) who matter so little to the Yanks I don’t even remember who they are
    . One of the best number three starters in the league (remember Wang) who turned into a very serviceable number two when Wang went down, and who (knock on wood) has stayed healthy.
    . A veteran pitcher who had a terrific second half and made every start we required him to make, not to mention won all three clinching games in the playoffs

    Now I know it’s early to judge but can anybody think of a better Yankee offseason than this one?

  9. The Artist says:

    If Boras seriously thinks he can get 3 years for Damon, then God bless both of them. I never begrudge a player making every dime he can while he’s able.

    But from the Yanks perspective, you start looking deeper into Plan B. What do you guys think Carl Crawford would cost in terms of talent? At 10mil per , it would seem to me he doesn’t have much residual value left over.

    But Fangraphs disagrees, I forgot what a good season he had this year, one of his best overall. It would seem he would command a decent package of talent. What are the Ray’s needs? Would they be OK trading a popular player within the division? What’s one year of Carl Crawford worth in prospects?

    • The Artist says:

      BTW-I think were a better team with Crawford than we are with Damon. He’s a far better fielder, better baserunner, and if he hits like he did last year, then his bat is a good replacement.

      • Drew says:

        Of course we’re a better team with CC, he’s a better player than Damon.

        As for what he’s worth in terms of prospects, I don’t think the Rays will trade him to us for anything less than a fleecing of our young talent. I doubt he’ll be a Yankee next year.

      • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi says:

        Damon’s better offensively, Crawford is better in the field (by far). But I’m pretty sure [Damon + whatever you'd have to trade for Crawford] is more valuable than [Crawford - whatever you'd have to trade for Crawford]. I don’t think it’d be too close, either.

        • Drew says:

          Why do you think JD is better than CC offensively? Slugging?

          Don’t forget that you basically turn 50+ of those singles and walks into doubles.

          • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi says:

            It’s more like 40 than 50+, since you’re not taking his CS into account.

            It’s not a landslide in offense, I just think Damon’s better with the stick. You’re right, though, Crawford’s speed certainly makes him more valuable than his numbers look at first glance. Even if it’s even on offense, I stick by the conclusion above. [Damon + whatever you'd have to trade for Crawford] is more valuable than [Crawford - whatever you'd have to trade for Crawford].

            • Drew says:

              Oh yeah I definitely agree with that. Also on the Yankees you’d have to figure CC would be far more picky on the basepaths. He probably wouldn’t steal as much with Teixy and Al behind him.
              Hopefully in 2011 he’s in pinstripes.

        • But I’m pretty sure [Damon + whatever you'd have to trade for Crawford] is more valuable than [Crawford - whatever you'd have to trade for Crawford]. I don’t think it’d be too close, either.

          That. A thousand times, that.

        • The Artist says:

          Maybe, but we do have some depth at some positions in the farm system. Guys who are unlikely to ever get a crack at the roster, so they’re expendable to fill a need.

          For example:
          Austin Jackson, Ivan Nova and Anthony Claggett sounds like a decent package for 1 year of Carl Crawford earning 10mil. If A-Jax alone pans out, they make back the 14 mil difference between his salary and value every year they control him. If 2 of the 3 are on the 25 man roster at all over the next few years, they’d still come out ahead.

          • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi says:

            Yeah, but you could just sign Crawford (or someone else) after the 2010 season and not give up the talent. In your hypothetical, you’re giving up prospects not for the total value of Crawford, but just for the incremental gain from Damon/Cameron/[unknown option] to Crawford.

            I also, to be totally honest, think we have absolutely no idea what it would take to get Crawford in a trade, so I kinda think it’s a pointless exercise (the assigning names to the trade part of it).

            • The Artist says:

              OK, but you’re saying ‘the price is too high’ and I’m not so sure. We have to throw names out there to know what either of us means by that.

              • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi says:

                I’m not saying you can’t go for it, it’s just not my thing. Maybe the Rays think A-Jax is awful. Maybe they’ll want more to trade him within the division, maybe they don’t care about that. There’s just so many variables in play that, in my mind, it’s not s worthwhile exercise.

                On a more basic level, I would assume they’ll want the kind of prospects it’s not easy to let go of, and I don’t think one year of Crawford is worth that much when there are other options out there and Crawford can be had for just money if you want him next offseason.

                • The Artist says:

                  I also assume they picked up that option with the intention of trading him. I don’t think they want to pay him that money. He made 5.4 mil last year, their budget can’t absorb players having their salary double.

                  So if they’re committed to dealing him (as I suspect) then it simply comes down to getting the best package available. My offer may be it, or it may not. We’ll see.

                • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi says:

                  He made $8.25 million in 2009, not $5.4 million.

                • Here’s the thing, though: Whomever trades for Crawford can sign him to an extension. It doesn’t mean they’ll actually BE ABLE TO sign him to an extension.

                  CC was traded from Cleveland to Milwaukee, but he refused to sign an extension and demanded to go to free agency. Ditto, Matt Holliday (twice).

                  Crawford could do the same thing.

                  Be patient. Wait. No need to spend prospects for a guy we can get for nothing but money a year from now. Particularly when there’s perfectly acceptable stopgaps at hand.

                • The Artist says:

                  HCM, Fangraphs had him at 5.4, Cots has him at 8.25 with a 2.5 mil buyout. I’ll assume Fangraphs subtracts the buyout money, since it was previously guaranteed.

                • You’re reading the wrong line. You’re reading his 2008 salary on Fangraphs.

                  They don’t have his 2009 salary listed on his page.

                • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi says:

                  Then you have to subtract the buyout from his 2010 salary, too. Either way, his 2010 salary isn’t as big an increase over his 2009 salary as you said it is.

                • The Artist says:

                  No, I misread it. TSJC is right.

        • JMK aka The Overshare says:

          THIS. It’s not that I dislike Crawford, but I think he’s been built up to be better than he really is. Giving away something of good value and expecting a player like Crawford, whose game is built almost entirely on speed and defense, to retain that value years later and at a high price, is not close to a sure thing.

    • But from the Yanks perspective, you start looking deeper into Plan B.

      I agree. I’m interested to hear what you have in mind for Plan B.

      What do you guys think Carl Crawford would cost in terms of talent?


      • The Artist says:

        I know what you’re thinking, but he had a great year this year.

        Dude put up a +17.6 UZR, 5.5 WAR. BABIP was just a nudge higher than career average, so it wasn’t just luck. It might be buying high, but at 28 he could just be coming into his prime years as well.

        • No, you don’t quite know what I’m thinking. Wrong objection

          I’m very interested in acquiring Carl Crawford.

          In 2010. Under no circumstances am I TRADING FOR Carl Crawford. Not at all. I dislike giving up prospects for players under contract in general, but I hate it when those prospects are going to a division rival for a superfluous player. Trading for Crawford helps our competitor more than it helps us. Adding Cameron and waiting a year is by FAR the smarter option if you want to have a non-Johnny Damon 2010 leftfielder.

          • The Artist says:

            Sign him to an extension.

            We didn’t need to trade for Johan Santana either, since we could have had him the nex. . . oh, that’s right. If we could get him for a package like I detailed above, I do it. If not, then give me a better alternative.

            Lets assume (as I did) Damon wants 3 years. He’s out. Matsui’s out, since he cant play LF. You don’t want Carl Crawford.

            Is Melky our LF? Sign Bay/Holliday to bazillion $ long term deals?

            • Sign him to an extension.

              Fuck that. JUST BE PATIENT FOR A DAMN YEAR.

              Cameron is a perfectly acceptable one year stopgap.

              • JGS says:

                unless you think the Rays will trade him midseason, and depending on how they are doing, they just might

              • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi says:

                I agree. It’s not that there’s something out there that’s better than Crawford in 2010, it’s that there’s something out there that’s better than trading for one year of Crawford. Just sign someone else, even if it’s Cameron, then sign Crawford after the 2010 season.

            • JMK aka The Overshare says:

              You’re ignoring a possible signing of Cameron.

            • steve (different one) says:

              the Rays don’t trade with the Yankees and they certainly aren’t going to trade the guy who owns every offensive record in franchise history to the Yankees. they just won’t.

              i can’t prove that beyond “b/c i said so”, but it’s still true.

  10. Guest says:

    The gold-glove convo got me thinking about defensive metrics. Here’s my question for those who know more than I do: Which defensive metric takes into account where the defender is positioned before the ball is hit into play? All other things being equal, I think that metric would be superior to those that don’t.

    Think about it: the number of balls a player gets to in a zone is not exclusively dependent on his own range. Where the player is positioned before the ball is hit into play plays a large role too. Consequently, I think we would get a more correct picture of a player’s true range if we knew how far he had to travel to get to a particular ball in his “zone.” And we would know how far we had to travel if: 1). We knew where he was positioned before the ball was hit into play 2). Where the ball passed through his zone.

    I thought about this because some speculate Jeter’s improved positioning was the main reason his UZR got so much better. But this has nothing to do with Jeter’s actual range. Rather, its a testament to good coaching. The Yankees positioned Jeter in a manner that would emphasize his strengths (going right) and minimize the impact of his weakness (going left).

    In any event, it seems to me that if we want to figure out a player’s range, we should give greatest credence to metrics that take the variable of defensive positioning out of the equation.

    • pete says:

      but the best defenders position themselves properly. In fact, in a game decided by inches, where the difference between elite and average can be nothing but positioning, i’d say it is either the most important or one of the most important factors as far as defense goes. not as much in terms of measuring talent, sure, but in terms of defensive value, i’ll take the guy who knows where to be on every pitch.

      • pete says:

        but, to answer your question, right now there really isn’t one. when we get hit/fx technology, we should be better equipped at measuring defensive ability/talent, since we should be able to determine the most “impressive” range plays. But a cumulative metric will always count the plays that the players weren’t positioned properly for, as it should.

      • Guest says:

        But we know that coaches play a large role in positioning. They actively move players at key moments during games. And to the extent players adjust their positining during games without direct orders from a coach, I would presume that they do so based on scouting reports/strategy discussed before the game. This is exceedingly more likely when you consider the vast improvements that have been made in advance scouting. Do you think teams compile all that knowledge on hitter tendencies only to leave defensive positioning entirely in the hands of their players? It’s possible, but I doubt it.

        Obviously players are not without some control over their positiong. Do I believe that veterans like Jeter might occassionally use their wealth of knowledge re: their own pitcher/the count/the hitter to move a step or two to the right or the left? Of course.

        But I think for the most part and for most players, defensive positioning is a matter of team strategy and knowledge, not individual intuition.

        • pete says:

          actually, coaches don’t play a very large role in positioning. they only position players when they are noticeably far from where they should be, or the manager wants to realign them according to something his charts tell him. I’m talking about pitch-to-pitch realignment – take a few steps in on an 0-2 count, etc.

  11. pete says:

    the problem with gold glove stuff is that people look at the “spectacular”-looking plays, yet ignore plays like this:, that in all likelihood are not made by any other outfielder in baseball.

    • No, they’re not even that smart.

      I’m convinced that voters just look at who hits well at a position and pick the guy who fields well from amongst that list.

      Derek Jeter didn’t make more spectacular looking plays than Elvis Andrus did, but he won the award for the best defensive shortstop in the AL. And, he won that primarily because he fielded fairly well for a good hitting shortstop.

      Defense is the secondary part of the equation. Which is retarded.

      • vin says:

        It also helps that Jeter didn’t make 22 errors this year like Andrus. I’m sure some of those errors came on balls that Jeter would’ve never gotten to, but knowing when not to throw the ball is part of the game.

        • pete says:

          this is true – while perhaps they shouldn’t, guys who vote on gold gloves look a lot at errors. mostly because they’re too stupid and old-school to comprehend something like UZR

    • JGS says:

      along those lines, didn’t Dayton Moore say at one point that Yuni Betancourt was a good defensive shortstop?

      and I agree with the comment right above this

    • I remember during the games against Seattle, I wouldn’t even get excited about any fly balls hit in the gaps because I knew Gutierrez was going to track them down. Dude’s range is incredible.

  12. Ready to meet the owner of Dirty Mark Sanchez?



    You’re looking right at him.

  13. Dela G says:

    any photoshop gurus want to help me?

    i need someone to make this emblem say twenty seven

    thanks in advance

  14. The Artist says:

    Let’s just assume for purposes discussion that this package gets a Crawford deal done, since the main objection seems to be the price is too high.

    Austin Jackson, Ivan Nova and Anthony Claggett sounds like a decent package for 1 year of Carl Crawford earning 10mil.

    Do you guys still object? I make that deal, even if I have a crystal ball that’s telling me A-Jax pans out.

  15. ev says:

    Saw this mentioned in the post about free agent outfielders and heard it mentioned a few times by the MSM. Why are people speculating that Matsui wants to go play with Ichiro in Seattle?
    If its only because they happen to be Japanese then that is a pretty ridiculous notion. Everything I have read and heard in the past suggests that the two actually don’t like each other at all. Has there been any real evidence that Matsui wants to play alongside Ichiro or is this just a ploy by his agent to drive up the price for the Yankees?

  16. Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

    I’m going to use this open thread to ask qquestions I’ve wanted to ask for a long time but keep forgetting to:

    1. How do you bold words?
    2. How do you increase font size?
    3. How do you itaalicize words?
    4. How do you put a dash through words?

    That’s all I could think of off the top of my head. ?Anybody w/answers, please respond. Thanks.

  17. Drew says:

    Hey Mike, or anyone really, do we think Jorge Vasquezt starts in Scranton or in Trenton?

  18. Hey ZZ says:

    Just out of curiosity: Why kind of value could the Yankees get for Melky in a trade?

  19. Andy in Sunny Daytona says:

    I saw the Pinstripes Plus top 50 Yankee Prospects list for next year.


  20. Re the GG: they need to give the award out to the individual OF spots and not just let everyone qualify.

  21. JobaWockeeZ says:

    Modern Warfare 2 is too good for words.

  22. Let’s try this:

    Bold: &#60b>&#60/b>
    Italic: &#60i>&#60/i>
    Strikethrough: &#60strike>&#60/strike>
    Quote/Cite: &#60blockquote>&#60/blockquote>


    • JMK aka The Overshare says:

      I know! I didn’t expect the html to fail my example so greatly. I should have figured…Sidenote: I hate carrots.

  23. The Artist says:

    Must read with all the talk about non-tenders this year. It doesn’t drive down FA price tags, since they all have to come from somewhere. It’s a wash. If FA salaries go down this year, it will be because it’s a weak class in a weak economy, not some supply/demand issue.

    • ROBTEN says:

      This is an interesting analysis. I have been thinking, in a similar context, about the narratives about the free-agent market and the supposed pressures of a weak economic climate.

      I think that what free-agents have to contend with today and what accounts for, in some cases, a “weaker” free-agent market (strictly speaking, for players seeking contracts in terms of dollars per year) are two interrelated components:

      1) a changing set of value-metrics, which provide a more effective way of evaluating the cost-per-wins difference between two players (that is, determining the real value difference between a higher-priced veteran and a low- to mid-priced younger player)


      2) a globalized talent pool, which goes beyond any particular free-agent class. The spending which is now moving towards the draft and towards the Latin American and Caribbean markets reflect the changing metrics and points to the drive by owners to drive down contract values.

      In other words, I think that the economic climate, while a nice narrative, doesn’t fully account for the emerging changes in how the free-agent market operates. Although this will probably be an unpopular argument, if there is a trend towards less available money in the free-agent market, I would expect (and hope) that in the next set of labor negotiations, the MLBPA looks for securing either shorter years before free-agency, or larger contracts for younger players. I’d also like to see or hear about more union involvement in the Latin American market.

      • The Artist says:

        More relevant than the national economy is Baseball’s own economy, since some businesses can do well and sometimes ever better during a recession. But Bud has stated (and the figures show) that Baseball is down around 10% this year. With unemployment high, and prospects poor for a job recovery anytime soon, it stands to reason that teams will tighten their belts this off season as they did last year. Maybe even more so, since they were still flush with cash from the prior yer before the economy tanked.

        It’s not a ‘narrative’, it’s the cold hard facts on the earnings reports. Sales are down, spending on FAs will follow.

        • ROBTEN says:

          My point in using “narrative” is not to deny economic reality, but to raise questions about whether the simple correlation between “weak (national) economy” and “weak (contract) market” is valid.

          This is the narrative which is most often heard, but by itself I don’t think that it explains why a number of free-agent salaries were significantly lower than expected before the market began.

          Leaving aside the issue of possible collusion among owners, I think that it was also the result of a shift in the determination of value along with the increased investment in the development of a global talent pool.

          Of course, the economic realities of the baseball business matter, and I don’t deny that revenues might be lower, but almost all the teams in the league claim to have significant operating losses (and have done so for decades). So, going by what Selig claims about baseball revenues does not provide the whole picture. There are many ways in which teams maintain revenue streams which do not appear or are actually counted against the claimed team revenues.

  24. The Artist says:

    Another goodie, about GM’s being smarter than you think.

  25. Okay I’m late on this, but for the potential Cameron-added lineup:

    Assuming Damon, Matsui, and Cameron are all there:

    1. Jeter, SS
    2. Damon, LF
    3. Tex, 1B
    4. A-Rod, 3-B
    5. Matsui, DH
    6. Posada, C
    7. Cameron, CF
    8. Cano, 2B
    9. Swisher, RF

    Assuming Cameron/Matsui:

    1. Jeter, SS
    2. Swisher, RF
    3. Tex, 1B
    4. A-Rod, 3B
    5. Matsui, DH
    6. Posada, C
    7. Cano, 2B
    8. Cameron, CF
    9. Cabrera, LF

    Assuming Cameron/Damon:

    1. Jeter, SS
    2. Damon, DH
    3. Tex, 1B
    4. A-Rod, 3B
    5. Posada, C
    6. Cameron, CF
    7. Cano, 2B
    8. Swisher, RF
    9. Cabrera, LF

    • Drew says:

      The first lineup makes me sad… :(

      • Haha, I’m sorry Drew. Honestly, Melky’s a perfect 4th OF: he can play all three positions more than competently, he has a strong arm, and he can hit at or around league average. It kinda fucks BG over, but whatever.

        • JMK aka The Overshare says:

          Fuck Brett Gardner. He’s not a starting OFer.

          • Mike Pop says:

            You can’t say fuck Brett Gardner. That dude’s got heart AND grit.

            He keeps our grit-meter where it needs to be.

            • JMK aka The Overshare says:

              It’s irrational, but I hate Brett Gardner more than Kei Igawa. Can’t stand “Grit” Gardner. Really.

              • Really? Gardner is at least useful.

                • JMK aka The Overshare says:

                  He’s useful as a PR or extra outfielder. I don’t think he can ever get on base enough to make for a useful starter. I see a guy with a terrible approach at the plate with nil power. Pitchers will adjust to him. His defense is about range. He doesn’t read the ball off the bat well and he takes poor routes.

                  I acknowledge that he has some use. I don’t know why, but I really cannot stand him. I just can’t.

                • I agree with you. He’s got a little use, though not much.

          • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

            Type that again and I will call my people and they will HUNT YOU DOWN

            Come on, type it. I dare you.

            Nobody says fuck Brett Gardner. Nobody.

            • JobaWockeeZ says:

              Nobody says fuck Brett Gardner. Nobody.
              Unless you’re a girl and the words ‘I want’ are in front.

            • “Type that again and I will call my people and they will HUNT YOU DOWN”

     (safe… ish)

            • JMK aka The Overshare says:

              It’s a shame you picked up on basic html.

            • Nobody says fuck Brett Gardner. Nobody.

              And did they steal the contracts…?

              Fuck you care…?

              “I want to tell you something, Harriet…”

              …the fuck is that supposed to mean…?

              Will you shut up, I’m telling you this…

              Aaronow sticks his head out.

              Can we get some coffee…?

              How ya doing?




              If anyone’s going, I could use some coffee.

              “You do get the…”
              (to Roma)
              Huh? Huh?

              Fuck is that supposed to mean?

              “You do get the opportunity…You get them. As I do, as anyone does…”

              Ricky? That I don’t care they stole the contracts?


              I got ‘em in the kitchen. I’m eating her crumb cake.

              What does that mean?

              It means, Dave, you haven’t closed a good one in a month, none of my business, you want to push me to answer you.
              And so you haven’t got a contract to get stolen or so forth.

              You have a mean streak in you, Ricky, you know that?

              Rick. Let me tell you. Wait, we’re in the…

              SHUT THE FUCK UP!
              Ricky. You have a mean streak in you…
              (to Levene)
              And what the fuck are you babbling about…?
              (to Roma)
              Bring that shit up. Of my volume. You were on a bad one and I brought it up to you you’d harbor it. You’d harbor it a long long while. And you’d be right.

              Who said “Fuck the Machine”?

              “Fuck the Machine”? “Fuck the Machine”? FUCK THE MACHINE!!! What is this, courtesy class…? You’re fucked, Rick–are you fucking nuts? You’re hot, so you think you’re the ruler of this place…?! You want to…


              SHUT UP!. Decide who should be dealt with how? Is that the thing? I come into the fuckin’ office today, I get humiliated by some jagoff cop. I get accused of…I GET THIS SHIT THROWN IN MY FACE BY YOU, YOU GENIUNE SHIT, BECAUSE YOU’RE TOP NAME ON THE BOARD?!?!

              Is that what I did, Dave? I humiliated you? My God, I’m sorry…

              Sittin’ on top of the world, sittin’ on top of the world, everything’s fucking peachfuzz…

              Oh, and I don’t get a moment to spare for a bust-out humanitarian down on his luck lately. Fuck you, Dave, you know you got a big mouth, and you make a close the whole place stinks with your farts for a week. “How much you just ingested,” what a big man you are, “Hey, let me buy you a pack of gum. I’ll show you how to chew it.” Your pal closes, all that comes out of your mouth is bile. How FUCKED UP YOU ARE!

              Who’s my pal…? And what are you, Ricky, huh, what are you, Bishop Sheean? Who the fuck are you, Mr. Slick…? What are you, friend to the workingman? Big deal. FUCK YOU! You got the memory a fuckin’ fly!
              I never liked you.

              What is this, your farewell speech?

              I’m going home.

              Your farewell to the troops?

              I’m not going home. I’m going to Wisconsin.

              Have a good trip.

              AH, FUCK YOU! FUCK THE LOT OF YOU!
              FUCK YOU ALL!

              Moss exits. Pause.

              (to Levene)
              You were saying?

      • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

        Wouldn’t Cano bat above Cameron?

        • I like Cano behind Cameron–and others for that matter–because despite Cano’s RISP trouble this year, I think he’s best utilized by having a lot of guys who can get on base in front of him. That way, his contact and power skills are utilized to drive guys in.

    • The Artist says:

      Assuming Cameron:

      1. Jeter, SS
      2. Cano, 2B
      3. Tex, 1B
      4. A-Rod, 3B
      5. Posada, DH
      6. Cameron, LF
      7. Swisher, RF
      8. Cabrera, CF
      9. Cervelli C

      I seriously think Posada will catch about 100 games next year and DH the rest. Cervelli plays twice a week. That’s why I don’t see us signing a DH.

      • I don’t like that lineup very much. If that’s the path they do take–Posada DHing a lot–I’d like to see them make a run at Gregg Zaun to get the lion’s share of the catching innings. He’s not great, but he’s not an automatic out.

      • JMK aka The Overshare says:

        No reason they don’t sign a DH. That lineup means you’ll need a third catcher on your 25-man. I just don’t see it.

        • JobaWockeeZ says:

          Neither do I. Girardi can still rest players with a DH. He could do it more often than last year. I don’t like having a black hole every game.

          • The Artist says:

            I hate to break it to you guys, but Jorge will be 39 next year. His days of catching everyday are over.

            • JobaWockeeZ says:

              Then rest him more. Girardi did it last year but it wasn’t a lot. He could do it more often.

            • JMK aka The Overshare says:

              Right, but that doesn’t mean you don’t sign a DH. If you rest him, Cervelli starts and you have a DH. Jorge is on the bench as an emergency catcher. No biggie.

              But you can’t have Jorge DHing and Frankie catching without an emergency catcher, so I’m not sure that works. I dislike having three catchers. Why do that? It’s a poor roster construction having three catchers on your 25-man, especially when two of them cannot hit.

              • The Artist says:

                No, I agree that this team will carry a 3rd catcher, which is another reason you don’t sign a DH.

                (pssst-that 3rd catcher could be Montero by mid-season)

                • JMK aka The Overshare says:

                  Could be Montero but you can’t plan for that. In your plan, Posada would have to play every game or you have a lineup with Melky, Cervelli and who? Hinske? Gardner? Hairston? That’s assuming you don’t have Montero.

                  Too many variables in that, even with Montero. It’s much safer to have a DH, give Posada full days of rest, have Cervelli suck at the dish, and if need be, bring Montero up slowly.

                  Otherwise, you may have a NL-looking bottom of the lineup.

                • The Artist says:

                  You can either have a DH or a 3rd string catcher. If you’re committed to DHing Posada, then you need a 3rd catcher.

                  If you can find a DH who’s a good 3rd string catcher, then great. Maybe Mike PIazza will come out of retirement.

                • JMK aka The Overshare says:

                  I’d much rather have a DH and Posada hanging out on the bench, resting and pissing on his hands when Cervelli is starting. No reason to limit options by making him play every day or carrying another crappy catcher. So, we agree that the Yanks should sign a DH then, right? Right?

                • The Artist says:

                  If Matsui can block a pitch in the dirt and throw a runner out at 2nd, I’m all for it.

                • JMK aka The Overshare says:

                  You’re doing this to rile people up, aren’t you? You’re very sneaky, oh Artist.

      • ROBTEN says:

        The problem is that this means that for every game you have a hitter like Cervelli/Pena/Gardner/Hairston type in the line up.

        Matsui (or another DH-type hitter, say a Thome) is better than having Cervelli/Pena/Gardner/Hairston in the line up everyday.

      • I seriously think Posada will catch about 100 games next year and DH the rest.

        I agree.

        Cervelli plays twice a week.

        Sounds good.

        That’s why I don’t see us signing a DH.

        Wrong. Sign a DH anyway. If Jorge catches 100 games and DH’s the rest, that’s only, what, 40-50 games he DH’s? Because he’s not playing every single day, he’s gonna get some full days off (because he’s a catcher, and an old one at that).

        That still leaves 110-120 non-Jorge the DH man-days to fill. We need a DH for those 110-120 DH man-days.

        A DH like Hazmat, for example, a DH who also does not need to play DH every day.

  26. Aj says:

    When the collective bargining agreement ends do you think there will be a worldwide draft? how is that fair to teams like the yankees who spend alot of money on scouting and acadamies down there?

    • The Artist says:

      I don’t doubt for a second that Bud Selig will ask for that, along with other concessions from the MLBPA.

      2011 sounds like a way off, but most economists think we are in a ‘new normal’ which includes lack of access to credit for small businesses, high unemployment and non-existent growth when you subtract the stimulus dollars for as long as they can see. That means business conditions will likely still be soft when the CBA expires, and Bud will be looking for givebacks and will probably get some.

      This is also why I think the Yanks take their payroll DOWN a few notches this off season and next, in anticipation of rules changes. Those changes can include higher Luxury tax rates, lower thresholds for paying them, international draft, hard slotting system, etc, etc. I doubt he’ll get all of that, but whatever he gets will be bad news for the Yanks. They’ll need to get their payroll down now so they don’t have to do anything drastic later. If I had to put a number to it, I’d guess the Yanks come in at 185-190 for 2010 and 175 for 2011. That’s why some of these spending ideas strike me as misguided. Brian Cashman took control of Baseball ops to have this team operate differently than when George was running things. People still don’t seem to get that.

      Hal would have taken payroll down last year, but Cash convinced him there was a unique market opportunity with CC, Tex and AJ. I think the long-rumored downsizing of the Yankee payroll starts this year, in anticipation of rules changes in 2011.

      • ROBTEN says:

        I wrote about something similar higher in the thread, but I have a slightly different reading.

        While the “new normal” economy might explain some of the reasoning of the changes you outline, I think that this doesn’t fully account for them, although it will be the narrative we hear about the most. I think that the “new normal” economy provides cover for lowering salary, but that the new value-metrics, which are harder to explain, also play a significant role in rethinking contract values. I think that some of these same issues would have emerged regardless of whether there was a weaker economic market; it may just enable owners to do it more quickly.

        • 28 next year says:

          The only problem with a worldwide draft is that you can’t really include Japanese players so it wouldn’t solve every problem.

          • The Artist says:

            And it only serves to screw the young, talented player. It’s couched in the cushy language of ‘competitive balance’ but all it accomplished is to take money out of the pockets of the players and put it back in the owner’s pockets.

            • ROBTEN says:


              “Caps” in salaries or the draft in the name of “competitive balance” are simply an artificial way of keeping salaries low.

              However, I would like to see some kind of structure in place to better monitor what is taking place in Latin America and the Caribbean. Despite the larger bonuses paid to some players, without formalizing the signing of Latin American and Caribbean players, and particularly with little or no union representation available, owners are still able to pay significantly less in salaries to prospects from Latin America and the Caribbean than similar prospects from the US.

  27. JobaWockeeZ says:

    How much could the Tigers get from trading Edwin Jackson? Hopefully he’ll be able to bounce back form his bad second half. But I’m going to assume way too much. Though he would be nice to have.

  28. pollo says:

    Anyone see Scout’s top 50?

    We are stacked. Definitely a top 10 system going into next year.

  29. I’m not in love with Cameron. I just don’t think he’s a great fit for the Yankees–another player who strikes out a lot? Pass. We already have a middle of the order that does it a fair bit.

    • But he also walks quite a bit and hits homers quite a bit. He’s Nick Swisher with slightly less power but better defense at a premium position. I think he’s a very good stop-gap fit.

    • Drew says:

      Assuming we have a solution for left field, JD, or a big FA, I don’t see us going after Cam.

    • Chris says:

      I just don’t think he’s a great fit for the Yankees–another player who strikes out a lot?

      I know it seems like the Yankees strike out a lot because they struck out 1014 times this season, but did you know that 26 teams in baseball struck out more times than the Yankees?

      The Yankee hitters had the 4th fewest strikeouts in baseball, and only the Orioles (with 1013 Ks) had fewer in the AL.

  30. Drew says:

    I was just watching Yankees Classics.

    Kay gave a hearty “He drilled it!” The right fielder then proceeded to catch the ball 15 feet in front of the warning track.

    Kay has managed to annoy me in the offseason. ugh

  31. Steve H says:

    I was reading above the lineup possibilities if we sign Cameron. If we do, isn’t Cameron our starting CF, not LF? He loses some of his appeal to me if he’s in LF. I’d like to see them resign Damon short term and sign Cameron (and I guess let Matsui go). That way you can rotate the DH spot a little bit but your extra bat in the lineup would be Melky, not Pena or some other guy without a chance at the plate. That’s also assuming 100+ games from Jorge behind the plate, which I don’t think is an issue.

  32. Sam P. says:

    Any of you lovely Xbox 360 folks on here going to pick up the new Left 4 Dead game next week? I can’t wait.

  33. I’m 99% sure I’m finally getting a PS3 tomorrow. Aside from MW2, what are some games I should check out?

    • Mike Pop says:

      Rez Evil 5, Skate 2, and Uncharted 2.

    • Drew says:

      NHL 10 is where it’s at man. Both online and offline play are ridic.

    • JMK aka The Overshare says:

      I’ve never had anything but a PS1. What do you guys think is best: Nintendo, 360 or PS3?

      • Drew says:

        I’m biased but I don;t see how you can beat PS3

        • JMK aka The Overshare says:

          I make pretty good money for my age, but I normally can’t bring myself to spend $400 + $60 games. I then realized that I spend that extra money on stupid shit anyway, and a friend told me I might have more fun with a PS3 or 360 than spending money on stupid women I take advantage of, as well as outfits for my cats.

          So I’m making the leap. Should I buy new or used?

      • Sam P. says:

        I grew up Nintendo, then got a PS2 after the N64 … and held out a while but got a 360 instead of the PS3 as so many more of my friends were on the 360. I’ve been really happy and enjoy the variety of games. I’m not in need of the Blu-Ray yet either, and my old launch PS2 still works … plus I love all of the Halo games.

        I’d consider the PS3 for the Metal Gear, just haven’t gotten it yet. I think I’ll be going for the full-on home theater setup first.

      • JobaWockeeZ says:

        It’s personal preference really. I’d go with the 360 but any is fine. Unless you like your shooters and such. Then it’s either PS3 or 360.

        Honestly the only shooter exclusive on there that I like is MGS4…

        But if your not into that sort of thing then you do whatever you want.

  34. Drew says:

    Good piece on mlbtr.

    It’s interesting that Wang thinks he’ll be ready to pitch pre-May.

    • The Artist says:

      Nice find

      Sherman (via Twitter) reported that Alan Nero, Wang’s agent, said that Wang was given the green light by Dr. James Andrews to start throwing by December 15 and that Wang may be able to pitch again by as early as the middle of April. In a follow-up tweet, Sherman noted that Yankee doctors have yet to examine Wang themselves.

      • Chris says:

        If there’s even a slim chance that he could be pitching in April, then I think it’s a no-brainer to bring him back next year.

        • pete says:

          depends on what it costs. i’m not giving him a major league deal for anything other than league minimum with a minor league option until i know he can be better than what he was last year.

          • Drew says:

            Eh, I’d give him more than the minimum. He will be better than he was this year. That’s not saying much but I want him back. He’s a great pitcher.

          • Chris says:

            Brad Penny and John Smoltz both got roughly $5M coming off shoulder injuries. That seems to be the going rate for such pitchers, and happens to match roughly what Wang would get in arbitration.

  35. Tom Zig says:

    I still think it’s BS that K-Rod won the 2008 Relief Man of the year award. Mo had him beat in every category except that dumb Save category.

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