Nov
18

Rumor du jour: An extension window for Halladay

By

As a follow-up to yesterday’s discussion on Roy Halladay, Jordian Bastian of MLB.com throws a wrench into the plans. According to Bastian’s sources, the Blue Jays are willing to allow a negotiating window for any team interested in acquiring Halladay. The Blue Jays’ ace has just one year left on his contract, and a negotiating window would allow Toronto to extract more value for Halladay. As iYankees notes, this move is a similar to the one the Twins employed in the Santana trade talks, and I’m not surprised to hear it. After all, as I said yesterday, the Blue Jays need to land a big impact player if the team trades Halladay, and a negotiating window gives them more leverage.

In other rumor news, Tyler Kepner runs down the potential organizational wishlist for the Hot Stove league. He doesn’t cover much new ground, but the summary is a succinct one of the Yanks’ desires for an outfielder, a starting pitcher and a few younger players. A team of mid-to-late 30s players can only carry a franchise so far.

Categories : Asides, Hot Stove League

123 Comments»

  1. JM says:

    I still think that Halladay is staying in Toronto and then possibly traded at the deadline, kind of like Sabathia.

    P.S. I GOT THE SWINE!!!!

    • Bob Stone says:

      I have it too. It really sucks.

    • Rose says:

      How do you know you have the Swine or if it’s just the regular flu? Both flu’s, strep throat, and mono all have extremely similar symptoms…it’s hard to tell one from the other without a blood test, throat culture, etc.

      • Marcus says:

        It’s not likely to be regular flu because regular flu hasn’t started circulating in the US yet, while H1N1 is widely circulating. It’s possible that it is regular, but not likely.

  2. A.D. says:

    Right now the Blue Jays would be dumb not to do this, they have plenty of time to deal Halladay, it’s at the deadline that windows can kill time & not allow any deal to get done.

  3. A.D. says:

    Obviously Halladay’s agent isn’t Boras…else the window would be worthless.

  4. Reggie C. says:

    Anthopoulos isn’t going to get serious offers from the Red Sox (who appear to expect a big injury bounce-back season from Dice-K), or the Yanks (who aren’t going to cough up Montero or Hughes for a 32 yr old, so no dice).

    If there was an ideal time to trade Halladay and get back one potentially excellent Major Leaguer, it was last season’s trading deadline.

    I predict the Dodgers trade for Halladay w/o coughing up a Billingsley, Kershaw, or Kemp … at the trading deadline.

    • A.D. says:

      I’m guessing the Angles might have something up their sleeve…but may not look to sign Halladay to an extension.

      • The Angels aren’t exactly in a “win now” mode considering the holes they have to fill this winter. Halladay would be a decent fit for them, but I don’t think they’ll want to give up what the Blue Jays want in return.

        • A.D. says:

          Yeah that would come down to their offseason, if they sign a DH/OF & get Figgins back I seem them looking at Halladay. If they do nothing this offseason then it would be unlikely.

        • Chris says:

          What about Texas making a run at him? They certainly have enough prospects in their system to get him. I don’t know what their financial situation is, but they have a lot of young pitchers that could benefit from a veteran presence like Halladay. With the Angels having a bunch of holes for next year, this might be a chance for Texas to make a push for the division.

          • Mike HC says:

            If I was Texas, I would make a serious run at Lackey (and have to pay him less than Halladay) while also holding on to all their top prospects. As the Yanks proved this year with their dominating performance, the key is to sign the big names while giving up nothing. Trading your best young prospects for the privilege of paying these older guys loads of money is more like going in circles. Or moving backwards.

          • A.D. says:

            Halladay still has a no-trade, and I believe he didn’t want to go to Texas last year.

          • I could see Texas making a run at Halladay, but I bet they do the smarter move and just sign Lackey and Sheets. Don’t give up prospects unless you have to.

            Lackey, Sheets, Feldman, Holland, Hunter, Feliz, McCarthy, etc… there’s enough to make a quality rotation there, even if they do trade Millwood as expected.

            Also, don’t discount them trading for Javier Vazquez instead of Halladay. The Braves would only need a veteran outfielder. Texas could re-up Marlon Byrd and run with a Murphy-Byrd-Cruz-Borbon outfield and flip Hamilton for Vazquez while Hamilton still has value.

            • A.D. says:

              Vazquez has already been demanded from being traded from the west once, and has a no trade to the AL & NL west, so he might just not want to be out there.

              • Vazquez is an interesting dynamic here, in that he can provide not Halladay’s talent level but probably 80% of it or so, but may have a price tag that’s far smaller than 80% of Halladay’s price tag.

                The Jays want to move Halladay because he’s an impending free agent, and they want young, inexpensive talent under team control (something all clubs value highly).

                The Braves want to move Vazquez, Lowe, or Kawakami simply because they have 6 starters for 5 spots, and they don’t need young, inexpensive talent, they’ll settle for one single veteran bat to help their offense, and that doesn’t even need to be cheap, he can be cost-ineffective. It can simply be a swap of bloated salaries.

                Vazquez/Lowe/Kawakami on the market could take away one of Halladay’s potential suitors; possibly even the MAIN potential suitor.

              • Ed says:

                At the time, Vazquez said he wanted to be traded east to be closer to his home. Texas plays in the West division, but geographically they’re a central team, so I don’t know if he’d object.

            • Reggie C. says:

              But teh CONNECT!!l

              /bad joke’d

          • Stuckey says:

            The consensus seems to be Texas uncertain ownership situation (Hicks is essentially deep in debt if I understand it correctly) will prevent them from making any serious FA runs, at least for the time being.

    • How do they pull that off? Is a package headlined by Scott Elbert, Ivan DeJesus, Andrew Lambo, or Dee Gordon gonna cut it? Maybe, but I doubt it. I also wonder if the Dodgers can even afford to sign Halladay at all.

      My bold prediction: The Cubs pony up Jay Jackson and Josh Vitters and sign Halladay to an extension.

  5. Mike HC says:

    “this move is a similar to the one the Twins employed in the Santana trade talks”

    – and look at how well that trade wound up for the Twins. Teams are not going to sell the farm for these guys anymore. Blue Jays are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either take 60 cents on the dollar, which would probably be one really good, but not great, prospect and little else, or hold on to him and let him hit free agency. The Blue Jays are in a no win situation here.

  6. My org. wishlist:

    1. Sign Andy Pettitte
    2. Sign Hideki Matsui or Johnny Damon
    3. Sign Mike Cameron, regardless of the outcome of number two.
    4. Sign a depth starter, like J-Dukes.
    5. Repeat.

  7. Zack says:

    Yes they want to get younger, only way to do that is by development. FAs are always 28+ and require 5+ year deals. Yes 28 is younger than 35, but it just repeats the cycle.

    • Chris says:

      There isn’t a benefit to getting younger just for the sake of getting younger. The goal id to get the best players, whether they’re old or young.

    • Ed says:

      Peak years are roughly 27-32, so signing a 28 year old to a 5 year deal isn’t a bad thing. Most players aren’t going to just fall off a cliff and have a massive drop in value that early, so signing them a little longer than that isn’t that bad. Adjust the length of your offer appropriately based on need, demand, and injury risk.

      It’s an expensive approach, but you get the player’s peak and skip the growing pains.

      • Zack says:

        Getting a 28 year old player of the talent level we’re talking about is good. But that’s why I added the “+” signs. Because they’re usually older and take longer contracts.

        • Ed says:

          Right, hence my “Adjust the length of your offer appropriately…” bit.

          But guys in their 30s rarely get more than 5 years, and guys with injury issues get less.

  8. vin says:

    I think the amount of interest the Yanks show in Halladay will determine whether or not they think they can sign King Felix. If their sources indicate Felix will hit the FA market, then I don’t think they’ll pursue Halladay.

  9. Chris says:

    I like halladay as much as anyone else but I don’t want to give up the young guys it will take. I’m hoping a deal is out there to get jackson and granderson for much less. You can do that deal and keep montero/joba and hughes.

    Andy signs and make damon/matsui an offer and the first one to take is on the team. Money saved for next year FA class. Crawford and ace pitcher

  10. Here’s what I’d like to see happen this offseason:

    The Nationals trade Josh Willingham and Adam Dunn to the Braves for Javy Vazquez.

    They then sign free agents Nick Johnson, Carl Pavano, Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Vlad Guerrero, Brian Schneider, Orlando Cabrera, Fernando Tatis, Cliff Floyd, Endy Chavez, and bring Tony Armas Jr. out of retirement and form the 2010 Montreal Expos All-Star Reunion show. Throwback Expos gear every other day.

    C- Brian Schneider
    1B- Nick Johnson
    2B- Ryan Zimmerman (I’m sure he can handle it)
    3B- Fernando Tatis
    SS- Orlando Cabrera
    LF- Vlad Guerrero
    CF- Endy Chavez
    RF- Cliff Floyd

    SP- Javy Vazquez
    SP- Pedro Martinez
    SP- Randy Johnson
    SP- Carl Pavano
    SP- Tony Armas Jr.

    Closer- Steven Strasburg

    Manger- Jim Riggleman
    Bench Coach- Gary Carter

  11. vin says:

    My favorite Roy Halladay stat from last year?

    He finished EVERY inning he started. Not only did he give the Jays length, but he didn’t leave any inherited runners for the bullpen. That’s pretty impressive.

    With that said (written), I’m hoping the Mariners go in the tank this year and King Felix hits free agency.

  12. Chris says:

    i think halladay is great but i cant see getting him at his age then signing him to an extension. Hoping granderson can be a solid CF and add the pop from the loss of one of damon or matsui.

    Jackson could be a solid 3/4 stater depending on what happens with andy. Jackson would also be insurance for hughes and joba.

    I like a rotation of cc aj jackson andy joba and hughes. Power arms with the exception of andy and he’ll be solid for next year.

    Then next year they’ll have options for a big name free agent pitcher.

  13. mryankee says:

    Hello Colorado-hometown player they have a lot of young players to trade. They need an ace and in that division that could put them over the top. If Colorado does not make this deal then they are asleep at the wheel. I would say the Yanks should make the deal but I am losing hope.

    • Why would Halladay want to go to the Rockies? They don’t have the money to extend him long term. If I’m Roy, I turn that trade down.

      • mryankee says:

        They are not a small market team and if your going to spend the money you have would he not be a perfect fit? Also since they play in the NL West they would probably have to give up less. This is a perfect fit for them.

        • The Rockies payroll was just under $75MM. Why do you think they unloaded Holliday? They weren’t going to be able to afford his extension. The same applies to Halladay. Halladay should nix a trade to the Rockies.

          • mryankee says:

            I disagree I think there are certain players you make teh stretch for. Maybe Holliday was not that player. Halladay is as I said hometown guy, true Ace and he would be pitching in the weak NL west as opposed to AL east. To me a smart investment for a team this is an ace away from maybe getting back to the world series.

            • And Holliday was the team’s best player, very popular, homegrown talent, and they didn’t break the bank for him. What makes you think they’d do it for Halladay?

              • mryankee says:

                To me there is a difference between a left fielder and a mumber one pitcher.

                • To the Rockies payroll, there is not.

                  Furthermore, you have that difference backward: You should be MORE willing to spend on Holliday than on Halladay, because Holliday is younger and is not a pitcher, thus lessening his injury and decline risk substantially. Resigning Holliday to a big money deal makes much more sense than letting him walk and then giving that big money deal to the older, import starting pitcher.

                • mryankee says:

                  Are you wathcing the same Halladay I am. I have seen no evidence of slowing down or getting hurt. Anyone can get hurt someone who is 21 can get hurt as easily as 31-I agree this would be a huge move for Colorado but in my mind a huge step forward.

                • The point.

                  _____

                  Your head.

                  Pitchers are generally more likely to get hurt than hitters are, regardless of who you’re comparing.

                  The Rockies, most likely, cannot afford Roy Halladay. Their current strategy of development without giving up the farm for big acquisitions has worked well for them. They’d be well advised to stick to it. Spending money for the sake of spending money is not a good thing.

                • Keanu Reeves says:

                  Well no kidding it would be a huge step forward. Any team that adds Roy Halladay would take a huge step forward. But that alone does not make this move plausible or possible for the Rockies.

        • Keanu Reeves says:

          Also since they play in the NL West they would probably have to give up less.

          Um…how does that work?

          • mryankee says:

            Would the Jays not take less from The Rockies as opposoed to the Yankees or Red Sox?

            • Keanu Reeves says:

              Why does that make any sense?

              First, Anthopoulos has said he has no real hangup about trading Doc in the division. So it doesn’t seem like the price will be raised for teams in the division.

              Second, if you’re going to trade the franchise player, you better get the best value back. They won’t take a lesser deal from Colorado just because they play in the NL West.

              • mryankee says:

                As general manager he also has to take into account how this will affect his fan base. They are going to be mad enough they had to trade the best pitcher in franchise history. Would it not make sense if you have relatively the same deals from an in division opponent or an out of division opponent you would send himout of the division?

                • Keanu Reeves says:

                  The bottom line is that the Jays can’t compete in the AL East with Roy, so if they trade him, they’re probably looking at completely rebuilding.

                  At that point, as a fan, you (maybe not you, but I) shouldn’t care who he goes to as long as you get the best deal in return. Because once he’s traded, it’s not about competing in 2010.

                • “First, Anthopoulos has said he has no real hangup about trading Doc in the division. So it doesn’t seem like the price will be raised for teams in the division.”

                  So we’re taking his statements at face value, because it’s impossible that it’s in his best interest to give the impression to the rest of baseball that the Yanks and Sox are involved in the bidding even if he doesn’t intend to trade the best pitcher in his franchise’s history to a divisional rival? Anthopoulos telling the media that he’ll trade Halladay within the division doesn’t mean a) that he actually will or b) that, if he does, he won’t demand a more valuable return than he would from a non-divisional rival. It’s clearly in his best interest, whether it’s true or not, to tell the rest of baseball that he has no problem dealing with the Yanks and Sox.

                  “The bottom line is that the Jays can’t compete in the AL East with Roy, so if they trade him, they’re probably looking at completely rebuilding… At that point, as a fan, you (maybe not you, but I) shouldn’t care who he goes to as long as you get the best deal in return. “

                  Perhaps… But, leaving aside the question of whether you’re even right on a theoretical level, we’ve seen in real-world examples that people tend not to act that way. I can think of one example of a marquee player getting traded to a divisional rival (Clemens) but I can’t think of others off the top of my head. Whether they’re right or not, I think teams don’t like to trade their marquee players to divisional rivals.

                • Keanu Reeves says:

                  I agree with you. And I hadn’t really stopped to consider your point about Anthropoulos’ statements to be honest.

                  I guess all I was trying to say was that I think the Jays main goal should be to get as much as they can in a Halladay trade. Because ultimately, the pieces they get back (IMO), will be more important to their future than who they trade him to. Even if it is the Yankees or Red Sox.

                • Oh I tend to agree with you, but I think this might be a bit more of a gray area than we sometimes allow for. It’s a lot easier for us to not be concerned with helping build a division rival than it is for an MLB GM, and to be totally honest I’m usually of the ‘don’t worry about trading within the division, just worry about building your team’ opinion, but I think there’s something to be said for people who are concerned with not helping the direct competition improve themselves. In a black and white world, in which the GM’s team is definitely not contending for x number of years, then yeah, it’s easy to say he shouldn’t be concerned with improving his divisional rivals, but we don’t live in such a black and white world.

                • PS: If you even check this thread again – sorry for the late response. Very busy day.

                • Keanu Reeves says:

                  No big deal. I made sure I came back actually because I was wondering what you had to say. I generally enjoy your take on things here.

    • Hello Colorado-hometown player…

      During the offseason, Halladay and his family live in Odessa, Florida.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Halladay

      I’m not saying you’re wrong in that Halladay may have an interest in playing for the Rockies. Just pointing out that the Halladay family does not live in Denver, and since Halladay was drafted by the Jays out of high school in 1995, he hasn’t really lived in Denver for a long time.

      Furthermore, the Rockies only started play in 1993, when Halladay was in high school. He may not be a Rockies fan at all.

      Just spitballin…

      • mryankee says:

        In a mrketing sense for the Rockies aside from the baseball advantages. Dont you think he would be a perfect fit for them and also the fans would go nuts for him.

        • Yes, Buster Olney, I do think he’d be a perfect fit for them.

          I also think they can’t afford him and would be best served just sitting on their prospects and reloading.

          • mryankee says:

            Why relaod they were in the playoffs last year. Tell me something Brian Cashman or is it Dayton Moore? Do you ever advocate trading prospects or making a big move. Sometimes especially when your a team like the Rockies you have to be bold and go out on a limb. Your right the safe move would be reload and stay with your prospects However The Rockies are in position to make this deal and if so maybe get to the world series.

            • Keanu Reeves says:

              I think his point is that there’s really nothing to indicate that Colorado would ever make this move.

              And yes, sometimes you have to take a big risk. But this isn’t exactly a calculated risk. You’re asking them trade away their best prospects for one year of Halladay unless they want to pony up the big and extend him.

              • mryankee says:

                Do you know the Rockies farm system in depth? Do you know what Toronto would want from Colorado? Do you know what the Colorado finances are? My point is that if your going to at some point take a shop at it now is the opportune time. I dont care if they ever have made a deal like this before. Now is the time to make a deal like this. Again for their specific situation.

                • Do you? Do you know the answer to any of those questions, or do you just pull ridiculous trade proposals out of a hat, not think them through for contractual or organizational ramifications, and then chastise others for pooh-poohing them?

                  I’ll pick the latter.

                • Keanu Reeves says:

                  No I don’t know what their farm system is like.

                  Do I know what Toronto would want? Specific player names? No. But I do know they’re are going to want the most value regardless of which team it is.

                  Do I know what the Colorado finances are? In terms of payroll, last year they were at $75,201,000. I’m guessing that 2010 isn’t the year that they’ll go over $100,000,000, so I don’t necessarily see them being willing to dish out the necessary money for Doc.

                  I agree that they have a solid core and that an ace could put them over the top. However, you don’t go car shopping and buy the first one that looks nice. Your point that “now is the time”, is purely speculation.

                • Bo says:

                  Why would he ever want to pitch in Coors field?

  14. mryankee says:

    I would be ok with a trade for Edwin Jackson if not Halladay if we have to downgrade.

    • Why? What is so great about Edwin Jackson? He had a great first half of 20009. That’s the only time he’s been above average in his career. He isn’t a very good pitcher.

      • mryankee says:

        I did not say great but he fits a lot of criteria you guys are advocating, younger inexpensive and you would not have to give up as much. He pitched very well aganst the Yankees and in the Americal Leagus. You dont think he would be a good #4 starter. I also like Ben Sheets but is he not more of a question than Edwin Jackson?

        • Keanu Reeves says:

          He pitched very well against the Yankees and in the American League…for half of a season.

          You’re right, he does fit the young criteria, but nothing else. Detroit wants to trade him now because his value is (probably) as high as it’ll get. Don’t expect to be able to float two B prospects their way and have Jackson, it’ll take more than that.

          No, I really don’t think he’d be a good #4 starter, and yes, I think there are more questions with him than Sheets.

          • Chris says:

            I agree with the theory of offering b level prospects. You never know what you can get if they need to save that much money

            I don’t think either player is great but trading decent b level prospects for jackson and grandy would be a good risk. Might catch a break here but I wouldn’t expect them to lead the team

            I kind view grandy as a swisher type bounce back and hoping jackson is somewhere in between what his begining and end of the year. I could live with him at 4 era.

            • Keanu Reeves says:

              I don’t think either player is great but trading decent b level prospects for jackson and grandy would be a good risk.

              You cannot trade decent B level prospects and expect to get either one of those players, let alone both of them.

              If that’s your plan, you better jump on the “Don’t trade for Jackson or Granderson” bandwagon, because B level prospects will NOT get it done.

              • Ed says:

                I want to agree with you, but then I think back to what everyone here thought it would cost to get Swisher last year.

                I think Jackson is clearly a guy they’d try to sell high on, but Granderson could be a Swisher like situation.

        • None of these players are necessary.

          A) We don’t need another starter. We already have 5 good ones.
          B) If we were to add another starter, WHICH WE WON’T, it most freaking definitely wouldn’t be via trade where we have to surrender prospects, it would be via the free agent market where all we surrender is cash.

          No Halladay. No Jackson. No Vazquez.

        • The fact that we’d have to give up anything aside from money makes him worth too much. There’s no point in trading for Edwin Jackson. If he were a free agent, maybe he’d be a good swingman/depth signing. Maybe. Even then, I think I’d take a pass. There’s no need to trade for him. At all.

  15. Bo says:

    A Joba/Jackson package and an extension for Halladay gets this deal done. They won’t get that type of talent from anyone else combined with the extension.

    Boston would love to be in on it but they have to take care of Beckett first.

    The thing really comes down to this. Does the Yankee FO think Joba is a front of the rotation starter or not? If there are doubts about him they have to trade him now while his value is high.

  16. [...] would not grant a trade partner a window to negotiate an extension. As we learned this morning, a Anthopoulos could allow an extension window. In his column this morning, Heyman notes that Anthopoulos will be more willing to deal within the [...]

Leave a Reply

You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

If this is your first time commenting on River Ave. Blues, please review the RAB Commenter Guidelines. Login for commenting features. Register for RAB.