Dec
16
Baseball America’s Top 10 Yankee Prospects
ByBaseball America posted their top ten Yankee prospects today, and predictably Jesus Montero topped the list. Austin Romine and Arodys Vizcaino rounded out the top three. Four of the ten players are backstops.
In the subscriber only scouting report, Montero is said to have improved his defense behind the plate, however he’s still a below average defender. More importantly, they said he “hasn’t delivered completely on his raw power, but he’s close to projecting as an 80 hitter with 80 power on the 20-80 scouting scale.” That’s what I’m talkin’ about.
Andrew Brackman, who still managed to crack the top ten, was said to have regained some command in Instructional League. Good news.
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Andrew Brackman, who still managed to crack the top ten, was said to have regained some command in Instructional League. Good news.
Don’t tell SalBoGrantLanny, he’s gonna have a shitfit.
Or Steve Lombardi for that matter.
I’m sure he’s too busy painting frescoes at the Sistine Chapel with Leonardo daVinci to notice. We’re good.
Are we sure he’s not a serial killer? Predictably, the Yanks just won the World Series and he’s still the same old miserable bastard.
He’s a bust no one should waste time typing about him.
/SalBoGrantLanny’d
Brackman is a bust. Even if he can throw 97mph.
He has no clue where its going. he cant repeat his delivery.
No that major league deal is looking better everyday.
Makes your blood boil, doesn’t it?
SalBoGrantLanny: filled with rage
Projected 2013 Lineup:
[snip]
Closer Joba Chamberlain
/punches John Manuel in the face
I know. Has the world gone mad?
Joba Chamberlain failed to convince anyone that he’s better suited as a starter than as a reliever
I don’t think these people are really paying attention to his first 110 innings.
though scouts who once considered Chamberlain a future No. 1 starter now admit that he’s a different animal out of the bullpen.
I don’t get this. So he has the potential (admittedly) to be a No. 1 starter… but oh… he’s a “different animal” out of the bullpen. Well what’s better than a No. 1 starter? What this is to me is basically an admission by Manuel that a closer is more important than a top of the rotation starter.
he’s saying that these scouts don’t see him as a #1 any longer
Was everyone asked? As an unofficial scout, I received no query.
I demand a revote.
While good hitting catchers are a valuable resource, I’d rather see good hitting CFs or SSs, since those guys, if they can’t handle CF/SS, can possibly still provide plus defense at corner spots (or 2B), whereas a catcher who can’t hack it behind the plate likely will be a mediocre to bad 1B.
whereas a catcher who can’t hack it behind the plate likely will be a mediocre to bad 1B.
Not necessarily. It all depends on the quality of the bat.
For example, Montero, even if he can’t hack it behind the plate, can be an EXCELLENT 1B. And, if 1B is organizationally blocked, he can be an EXCELLENT DH (or possibly LF).
BTW, I can think of a certain excellent 1B/DH who’s available this very winter who began his career as a catching prospect:
http://webzoom.freewebs.com/31.....elgado.JPG
(That’s right: Four comments in, and I’ve already praised both Andrew Brackman AND Carlos Delgado. I’m definitely going to piss a certain someone off today. Book it.)
I think I wasn’t clear — I was talking about defensive value. Montero does project to have enough of a bat to hit anywhere, but that’ll come with a defensive hit, because he’s not gonna turn into a good 1B/3B. Whereas a hypothetical Montero who plays CF or SS and has the same questions could turn into a plus corner defender.
But why can’t he become a good defensive 1b?
I’m not saying he can’t, I’m saying the skillset to play catcher doesn’t translate to other positions the way the skillsets to play SS and CF do.
Ok, got ya.
I’d love the Yankees to develop those players and I’m sure the Yankees would love it too, but they almost never exist. There are like 5 of those type of players in the game. A SS/CF with a Montero-esque bat is just so rare, because they now have to be athletic in addition to a ridiculously good hitter. Most hitters that have great power just aren’t that athletic/fast enough to man other corner OF and 2B well.
Mostly, I’m just saying that good hitters who can play CF/SS in the minors are more valuable than good hitters who play C, because the former category can still provide plus defense even if moved off those positions, whereas anyone moved off catcher may not.
Of course, a bat like Montero’s appears to be able to play anywhere. 80 hitter with 80 power? What is that, early career Frank Thomas? Pujols? Miggy Cabrera? Yikes.
What about Posada? He might not be horrid behind the dish, but he’s pretty bad. Yet, as a Catcher, I think he has been very valuable to the Yankees… no?
And if Montero turns into Piazza…. valuable?
Montero is said to have improved his defense behind the plate, however he’s still a below average defender.
If Montero is good enough to just be “below average”, as opposed to, say “What Jason Veritek would be like as a catcher when he’s 45 years old”, that is abundantly acceptable. For every passed ball or runner he is not able to gun down, he’ll just mash the fuck out of a ball to redeem himself.
Especially if he continues to improve.
The guy is only 19.
just turned 20
20 now, as of a couple of weeks ago
he’s already 20 and not in the bigs? Bust!
Well the fact that he’s only 19 may or may not help the guy. If he continues to grow and fill out, his frame might become less catcher-friendly. But at the same time, his experience and familiarity behind the plate will increase his proficiency though.
Maybe its a push? I’m really not sure.
What is considered bad about his defense? Is it his blocking, throwing? A Combination of everything?
catching aint the easiest position to master defensively.
If he can hit there, he can stick there. Look at Posada, V Martinez, Piazza etc.
Montero is said to have improved his defense behind the plate, however he’s still a below average defender.
Is he simply “below average”, or is that just a nice way of saying “He finally plays catcher better than your grandmother does” ?
I’d be thrilled with “below average” with his bat.
Isn’t their catching prospect named Gaby, not Gary, Sanchez?
No Gary. Gaby is a first baseman in the Marlins’ organization.
What does it say about the system that someone who has yet to play stateside is in the top 10? From looking at other systems, that seems to mean that either a) it’s a weak system, or b) Sanchez is incredible.
Either way, I’m skeptical.
Gary IS incredible. He is the best of both worlds. The offense of Montero with the defense of Romine. I’ve been calling him ” Jestin Romtero” for weeks now. He will easily be a top 3 talent next year.
Remember our deal, Andy.
I forgot, what is it again?
Oh yeah I remember now. I will definitely see him first. Spring Traing.
Training
Cool. I’ll be spending a decent amount of time in either Trenton and SWB (though there’s much less appeal to Trenton, despite being closer), possibly Staten Island too, watching the farm club.
I want a first-look at Sanchez!
Speaking of names, I need someone to clear this up for me:
Is it “Wilkins” de la Rosa?
Or “Wilkin” de la Rosa?
I’ve seen conflicting sites all over the interwebs. Does his first name have an S, or not?
Oh, and “Zach” or “Zack” McAllister?
Confirm these for me, Axisa. kthxbai.
Wilkins.
McAllister and Kroenke have H’s, Greinke has a K.
McAllister and Kroenke have H’s, Greinke has a K.
Actually, Greinke has 750 K’s.
http://www.instantrimshot.com
Bravo!
I pretty sure it’s Wilkin. No “s”. It was changed last year sometime.
Someone get Mashmore on the phone and ask him for sure.
OH SHIT NOW IM CONFUSED AGAIN
when you say it in spanish, you skip the ‘s’ in wilkins… what i think
Its Wilkins and Zach. Trust me its right
Thank you to both.
My follow-up: The yankees.com webmaster is slacking on his job.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com....._id=460344
Further proof of how awesome Greinke is, going with the one true spelling
I wonder if De la Rosa is to Lenny what Cano is to Jackie
Mike, I know you likely have your own top 10 forthcoming, but care to chime in on BAs? Where are you similar? Vastly different?
One difference is I bet Axia did not include Sanchez in his top 10.
Other than that, they’ve got to be pretty similar no?
Montero, Romine, Vizcaino, Heathcott, ZMac, ManBan and Bleich are practically locks for top 10. I guess you could bump of Brackman, but I would be good money Mike still has him in his top 10.
I’m putting mine together now, but for the most part they’re similar. I won’t rate Sanchez that high because I want to see him in the states first. I’m not sure how I’m going to sort out the Banuelos, Vizcaino, McAllister mess.
I’ll probably squeeze Melancon and Nova into the back half of the top 10 somehow.
When should we expect it?
/greatly looking forward to it
No for a while. I usually post it right before Spring Training starts, mid-February. I like to let the offseason play out so my list can reflect any additions/subtractions.
More importantly, they said he “hasn’t delivered completely on his raw power,
He looked to start doing so in AA before he got hurt.
Montero will hit for power. There is a question on how many home runs he’ll hit, I suppose. He reportedly has a relatively level swing plan and hits the ball with more top spin than most home run hitters do.
Tough to hit a lot of home runs with top spin on the ball. Have to hit screaming liners that get out before they can sink. It has sounded like a number of Montero’s HR so far have been of that variety.
Bleich over WDLR? I expected to see De La Rosa somewhere on that list.
Nah, he’s just a reliever with walk issues. 10-20 range guy, maybe 20-25.
So, essentially he’s like all the other lefties in AA and AAA in our system. Zing.
“So, essentially he’s like all the other lefties in AA and AAA in
oureveryone’s system. Zing.”I’m so ‘meh’ with this. We’ve got guys with a ton of upside, but no one past A+ (other than Montero/ZacMac) who’s going to make an impact any time soon.
I’m guessing we drop in rankings this year due to the youth in our system (and losing AJax).
Still, the future looks bright. I guess this coming year will be telling for our ranking.
Romine will probably start in AA, same for Bleich. I guess it’s unclear what you mean by “any time soon.”
Having 2-3 guys at the top of the system ready to contribute and with strong futures isn’t exactly shabby, ESPECIALLY when in the past two seasons you’ve: signed three major type A free agents; not signed your #1 pick; made two major trades involving your minor league system; graduated two of your best pitching prospects in a long time to the majors; and WON THE WORLD SERIES.
Most clubs would be lucky to have a farm system left after all that. That the Yankees have the likes of Jesus, Z-Mac, and Nova heading for AAA and some high talent in A/AA is pretty impressive.
Not that different from the Sox or any other really good team…
I’m so ‘meh’ with this. We’ve got guys with a ton of upside, but no one past A+ (other than Montero/ZacMac) who’s going to make an impact any time soon.
Maybe this is just my take on it, but I think the Yankees are in a position to be able to have some of their “top guys” a year + away. I mean seriously, barring any major injuries, where would Yankees need a prospect to fill-in? Maybe LF? The infield is set up for the next couple years. CF and RF are under control. C is serviceable with Cervelli as a back-up. They have good SP and RP depth available (although you can never have enough). Having Jesus, Slade, Vizcaino, etc. in the lower levels is OK because they can learn and perfect their stuff in the minors instead of learning on the job (like Joba).
2013 line-up looks pretty decent, and it doesn’t take into consideration FA moves between now and then. Get excited.
in a perfect world, kelvin de leon will be manning one of the corner spots
There is a .01% chance that Bret gardne ris a Yankee starter in 2013
Andrew Romine? Lol.
Yeah, that’s his brother.
Shows how much they know about prospects!!
Brackman and Bleich over McAllister and Nova? I disagree.
mcallister’s 5th, ahead of both bleich and brackman
Brackman and Bleich over
McAllister andNova? I disagree.Fixed that for me.
Here’s why:
Brackman’s upside is still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bleich or Nova’s. One bad year does not erase that.
As for why Bleich is over Nova, I suspect the fact that he’s a lefty and that Nova kinda came out of nowhere combine for that decision.
Yeah, but it was a really bad year. Really really really bad. And upside is great and all, but at a certain point, a major league ready arm has a lot more value to clubs than a high upside, high chance of failure not that young arm in low A.
Daniel Bard had a really really really bad year in the minors too, and even he doesn’t have Brackmans upside.
And upside is great and all, but at a certain point, a major league ready arm has a lot more value to clubs than a high upside, high chance of failure not that young arm in low A.
This isn’t a ranking of the “most valuable to the club” Yankee prospects, it’s a ranking of the TOP prospects.
Nova and Bleich probably do have more value to the club because they’re closer and more refined products, but that doesn’t mean that they should be ranked higher than Brackman. Value, ceiling/floor, projectability, distance to majors, and numerous other factors are all weighed against each other.
I still don’t really see how Brackman comes out on top of, say, Nova in a system ranking “Value, ceiling/floor, projectability, distance to majors” etc. Nova’s ceiling isn’t THAT low, he’s close to the majors, and he’s quite projectable.
Brackman, on the other hand, is going on pure ceiling. His floor is much lower because he’s so far away, and its pretty darn impossible to project him right now because he’s such a mess. He’s got a great FB and is really tall. On the other hand, he’s over a year older than Nova, is way behind in his development, can’t stay healthy, and is a mechanical mess.
So basically what it comes down to is that this list really weights ceiling way more than anything else.
I think its far better at this point to leave Brackman off lists and be happily surprised if he turns it around.
So basically what it comes down to is that this list really weights ceiling way more than anything else.
If the list really weighed ceiling more than anything else, Brackman would be #2, right behind Montero. Montero’s still the only guy with a ceiling as high as him. Furthermore, guys like DeLeon would have cracked the top 10.
All things considered, putting Brackman at #10, behind guys like Romine, Heathcott, McAllister, Murphy, and Bleich but in front of guys like Nova, Heredia, and Melancon seems to be a pretty fair blending of upside, projectability, and immediate value. JMHO.
He has a refined breaking ball, too (supposedly the curve is good). Stuff-wise he can’t be touched in this system. It’s everything else that’s been an issue.
Still, he’s had ONE season back and even though it was pretty bad, he did have some high points. He was pitching right after TJ surgery.
Let’s not rush to judgment on this one.
Those are valid points, of course. I’d say that Brackman is also the most likely of three to never reach the majors.
Nova was also fairly successful in 2007 and 2008, so I wouldn’t say he came out of nowhere. His potential is also a bit higher then Bleich’s IMO and he is a bit further along while basically the same age.
Based on reports from his late season performance he improved dramatically late in the season. The reports on him from the instructional league were glowing. Remember, this guy is still fairly inexperienced splitting his time between baseball and basketball and was coming off major surgery.
I’ve read reports that Yankee front office people think he could possibly contribute as soon as next year if moved to the bullpen full-time. I don’t expect it mind you because apparently they’re going to have him in the rotation to start the year.
Brackman over them is a joke.
Nova will pitch more games this yr in the majors than Brackman will his career.
Boversimplification.
Lets go thought the logic here. Guy misses over a year due to TJ surgery and struggles his first year in the minors, therefore he will never be good. Kinda similar to the Joba logic, he struggled in the second half of his first full year in the rotation, therefore he will not be a good starter. Bo has yet to make an informed opinion, therefore he never will. They should get rid of Slade, as he was 1-10 in rookie ball last year. Why spend the next years of trying to develop that?
I would love the projected 2013 lineup…but Joba’s is gonna be a starter.
I find it hard to believe that Gardner’s gonna be holding down a starting job in 2013. I’d be pretty pumped if Heathcott was there by ’13, though.
And, yeah, Joba won’t be a closer.
I see Joba as the closer before I see
Bubba CrosbyBrett Gardner starting in CFin 2013…ever.I see Joba as the starting CF before I see Gardner there in 2013.
1. Slade (assuming he hits close to his ceiling)
2. Jeter
3. Teixeira
4. Alex
5. Jesus
6. Cano
7. Granderson
8. Romine
9. Gardner
I expect (or hope) that rotation to include Felix, Lee, Cain by then. Plus I love McAllister. I expect McAllister to be holding down the back end of the rotation for us.
In 2013, Heathcott would be a rookie most likely (if he is in the majors), so I’d highly doubt the Yankees would let him lead off. It probably be Jeter and Granderson at the top of the order (maybe Cano or Gardner depending on there production).
He’s got the same toolsy label as Jackson, raw athleticism needing refinement, and assuming Jackson cracks the bigs this year that would put him in his sixth season of pro ball. Heathcott could move faster (and is older than Jackson was at the same point, 19 now), but Jackson had the advantage of a full summer of short season after being drafted, so that could be overly optimistic.
I expect (or hope) that rotation to include Felix, Lee, Cain by then.
Wow…that seems a little extreme. I’m sure Mike Franscesa would agree with that logic though
Forgot to put an “or” there. My point is I think the Yankees will grab another top-of-the-line starter by 2013. But only one…
If Gardner is gonna crack that lineup everyday, I would assume that he developed into the solid obp guy he has shown in the minors. If he where to do that, I would think that he would seem like the prototypical leadoff guy that the CWS and KC where looking for.
Joba is going to be a closer. No matter how much everyone wants him to be an ace.
Nothing wrong with being an elite closer u know
More Boversimplification.
That is a lot of love for Sanchez and Murphy i think. Bleich and Brackman are slightly too high as well, but good news to hear Brackman’s control continued to rebound in instructionals.
1. Jesus
2. Romine
3. Man-Ban
4. Viz
5. Slade
6. Z-Mac
7. Nova
8. Jairo
9. Melancon
10. Warren
11-15 no order Bleich, Brackman, Sanchez, D.J. Mitchell, Murphy.
Eh, based on pure stuff and potential A-Brack jumps way ahead of Mel.
Warren and Heredia, as well.
Don’t results matter a little?
So Brackman has better pure stuff. Doesnt matter if he can never harness that.
based on his 1st year following TJS, you’ve come to the conclusion that he’ll never harness his stuff? brilliant
They do matter that’s why he’s not #2 on the list.
“Hasn’t delivered completely on his raw power”
Excuse me while I sob to myself in pure joy.
His 2009 projects to 30 hrs over 162. If his potential is 60-70, then he’s underachieved by at least 50%.
“close to projecting as an 80 hitter with 80 power on the 20-80 scouting scale.”
umm…yeah…wow.
who’s the best offensive catcher/horrible defensive catcher that actually stuck behind the plate for the longest time?
piazza? he never made the move to first/dh for any considerable amount of time.
Probably Piazza. If Montero can be a Piazza-level bat, I’m happy to stick him behind the plate.
Bonus: Montero won’t ever have to get hit in the head by Roger Clemens.
What about old timers day!?
We were gonna invite Roger, but we already booked Mindy McCready to sing the national anthem.
It would have been awkward.
IETC
Another kudo for the Hoffmann pickup as he’s our system best defensive OF. I guess playing devil’s advocate, it’s a negative for our system as of a week ago, though
Probably means Melky Mesa lost out on getting another award.
Interesting to see BA to pick Romine as Posada’s successor and Montero as a 1B/DH/trade bait option. I’m not quite ready to give up on him at catcher.
If you read their stuff, they gave up on him at catcher a while ago
Exactly, they’re going to keep pushing that agenda.
Well, if they think both of them make the majors with the Yankees, then it is probably the right call. With Romine catching and Montero DHing, the Yanks would probably get the best defensively lineup out on the field with the same level of batting.
Obviously, this hinges on both making the majors and with the Yankees.
If they both make the majors and are good enough to be starting catchers, you’d get max value by trading one of them. Good catchers are hard to find, 1B/DH’s are easy.
I agree. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest Jesus might continue to improve at the position at age 20, 21, 22. It’s not like he’s a SS or CF where you could say that he’ll just never have the speed to excel at the position. Those positions require more God-given talent. At catcher, I think more experience, coaching, and hard work will do wonders at that position.
they say he’s very slow behind the plate, both in blocking balls and in transfering the ball in thorwing out baserunners. and that he really doesn’t have the athleticism to improve much in those areas, especially the former.
I doubt that guys like Chad Moehler and Jose Molina have more “athleticism” than Jesus. Blocking and transferring are all techniques that need to be repeated a million times. I’d guess it’s something he can continue to work on and improve on.
I agree. I think some hard work, repetition and good coaching can get this kid to be an average catcher. I find it hard to believe that a 20-year-old kid can’t improve physically in the areas you mentioned.
I agree.
For example, I’m much better at masturbating now than I was when I was 20.
Sincerely,
pat
You know how you get to Carnegie Hall, doncha? Practice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI (safe)
+1
You dont give up on him as a catcher until he fails completely at it.
That is probably why they want to keep that DH spot empty.
Montero/Posada DH platoon. Catch the other part with Cervelli as the 3rd C.
You dont give up on him as a catcher until he fails completely at it.
You similarly don’t give up on Brackman as a pitcher until he completely fails at it.
No, Bo, one bad year in A ball is not “completely failing at it”.
Also like the fact that they have Hughes as our 2013 #2. Think we’d all take that.
nah. that’s felix’s spot. phil can be number 3.
you mean CC’s
2013 rotation:
CC-Felix-Joba-Phil-AJ-Cain-Lincecum-Greinke
They all get 35 starts. Chew on that.
That 280-game season is going to be a real bitch on the position players.
Thats when Minor league depth becomes very important
Are you guys prepared to write recaps for all 280 + 11 games?
Rotating DH, Ben. Duh.
NOW WE’RE TALKING!!! PITCHING, PITCHING, MORE PITCHING!!!!!!!!!
Is anyone else not impressed by BA’s writeup? I’d wager that anyone who follows baseball comes to BA for MiL analysis, not paragraphs about how the Yankees consider anything short of a WS victory failure. I can get that kind of insight anywhere.
Is anyone else not impressed by BA’s writeup?
Krusty: (under breath) …meh, I could pull a better cartoon out of my aa–HEY, WOAH! Wasn’t that great, kids?
In the subscriber only scouting report, Montero is said to have improved his defense behind the plate, however he’s still a below average defender. More importantly, they said he “hasn’t delivered completely on his raw power, but he’s close to projecting as an 80 hitter with 80 power on the 20-80 scouting scale.”
honestly i’m at the point where i could care less where Montero plays, an 80/80 bat with solid plate discipline sounds downright pujolsian. My guess: his bat plays him well enough to play catcher, but he won’t be there for long (probs move out by the time he is 25). Not necessarily because of defensive implications, but because his bat is so special that once we’re clear of the old guys who need DH time, he can be a #3 hitting DH for the next 10-15 years, a future that could potentially be jeopardized by his catching. I’d say keep him there for a while though, since it should improve his pitch and pitch-pattern recognition, as well as give us an option to spell our catcher (not as a defensive replacement, but purely for rest) without offensively downgrading all the way to frankie C. just mein opinion though.
as for the rest of the list, meh. I expected better out of BA, but whatever. An outfield of Granderson-BrettG-Slade could potentially be RIDICULOUS defensively, but i’m still not sold on brett’s bat as an every day player. With joeG at the helm he could be a very useful player for us, but when he’s cold, he’s unbearably cold. big HR totals or not, the ability to turn a mistake into a HR without taking a wild hack is a very very important ability in a hitter.
honestly i’m at the point where i could care less where Montero plays, an 80/80 bat with solid plate discipline sounds downright pujolsian.
“Pujolsian” is an unfair label to put on ANYONE, even TEH JESUS.
I will accept Miguel Cabreraian, though.
Theres no reason he cant play catcher for a couple years.Then 1B after Tex’s contract expires. Theres absolutely no reason to trade him unless its for lets say someone like Hanley.
A couple of years would mean 2 years….Tex is signed for 7 more seasons. I dont know about playing first base anytime soon. Well Jesus probably does not get called up until 2011 sooo he would have to wait for 6 years of Tex at firstbase to go by.
My mistake I meant to write he will DH until Tex’s contract expires.
or there is always catcher, just saying
Amen!
Montero at catcher is a great plus but if the D is poor at best put him at 1st and enjoy all of the extra at bats he gets.
If we didn’t have a lot of other catcher options in the system that might not be the case but an 80/80 hitter?
I say get him some bubble wrap.
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My bad.
Ugh. Pass.
I’m not going to engage him anymore. He’s utterly irrational. He cannot think about things with reason or perspective. It’s like talking to a brick wall. The only way to deal with him is to ignore him, wait for November 2010 when we win another ring, and then, if he hasn’t already died from a massive myocardial infarction, take him out for a beer at an RAB meetup and explain to him, with the full benefit of hindsight, how big of a moron he was being.
For now, he’s on the Do Not Call list.
1.) Brazilian Yankee
2.) Joba and Hughes to the Pen/touchtoneterriost/Adrian-Retire-21
3.) mryankee
(Note: I know I should put SalBoGrantLanny on there, but for some reason, I can’t. He always draws me back in. He’s my idiot muse.)
Sigh. I think you’re right TSJC (though I did just write a couple replies to the guy). You’ve probably dealt with his kind many-a-time. I just haven’t put up with enough to reach my shut-off point. And its kind of fun in a way to express my thoughts about his silly statements, even if it is indeed talking to a brick wall, which it is.
It takes discipline and self-restraint, but ultimately, it’s for the best. You have to think of the big picture.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to go gangbang some skanks.
Sincerely,
Tiger Woods
If only the aforementioned individuals were attractive-but-easy-female waitresses. They would be so much easier to tolerate.
Mike Cameron will miss you cheering for him, Eric.
You can’t make lemonade from lemons, Robert.
I’m going to go ahead and take is as a positive that Arodys and Man-Ban are in the rotation and Joba in the pen, because they’re just that nasty they forced the Yankees to be starters.
Lets assume thats the case. That would make me feel a lot better..
If that’s the team in 2013…not too shabby. Though Jeter at SS might be agressive
Montero has three really good mentors in the system:
Girardi
Pena
Posada
That’s a ton of experience to help this kid develop. Shit, maybe Yogi can get in on the action.
Please please please keep Posada away from anyone who has to learn receiving technique.
What? You don’t want our young catchers to stand up every time there’s a borderline high strike?
Let Posada teach him how to win.
Interesting that BA has Banuelos starting over Z-Mac, despite Z-Mac being closer to the majors, and the higher rated prospect.
Z-Mac projects more as a back-end rotation starter. ManBan has the potential to be a #2, is young and very poised. I’d say it’s a judgment call, but I can see Banuelos being rated higher.
+1.
This is a prospects list based solely on talent and potential.
Similar to what someone posted a bit further up with Melancon in his list; This list isn’t what prospect is most ready to contribute at the major league level.
I’m saying its odd that BA puts Z-Mac higher & Man-Ban as a starter over him in a few years.
Why isnt anyone bringing up Jorge Vazquez. He is ML ready and hit better than Montero in AA last year. So he is 27, so what, he isnt 37. Jorge ‘Chato’ Vazquez will get an invite to ST. He has a shot at making the club out of camp. He could be a DH/bench player who can give a few positions a day off. That is why they had him in Instructs working on catching which was his first position. He might not be great defensively, but is playable at first with 220 pro games, and 135 games at third, and can play the corner OF. He is just a masher, period. AA,AAA,Winter Ball, or the Bigs. He will mash no matter where he is. Over the last couple of years he was Mexico’s Matsui to Japan. He was on Gatorade ads….his nickname was ‘El Destructor’. He is a better hitter than Miranda. Miranda in the ML is projected at .280/18/80. Not bad, but Chato will be .300/30/100. And he has been working on LH pitching and this winter he has only been in 24 games but he is at .280/.379/.840/1.219 with 4hr and 2 doubles in 24ab. He has played 24 games and is 6th in HR in the Mex lg and climbing. The rest of the leaders are at 50+ games. And the last 4 of 5 Hr were against pitchers with ML exp. He will get his chance, if not in NY, somewhere. In Trenton he was selected to EL All-Star team while placing 3rd in the league in avg (.332), 5th in HR (13), 7th in RBI (55) and 1st in SLG (.584) while only playing in 56 out of the leagues 91g at the break!!! That is insane!!!!
I’m looking forward to watching him hit in the lineup with Montero in AAA but wouldn’t object if he earned a ML spot with a good spring.
I love me some JoVa.
I think he’s got potential to rush through AA(If the Yanks start him there) and AAA and join the Yanks by July/August.
He…hit better than Montero in AA last year. So he is 27…
Asked and answered. A 27 year old hitting well in AA is nothing to write home about. Everything else you wrote after that is pretty irrelevant.
Furthermore, he’s a DH who can’t hit lefties. Snore.
I think it’s time for your siesta. That post was brutal.
Why isnt anyone bringing up Jorge Vazquez.
Well on this thread because he’s not a “prospect” in the sense.
In general because he hasn’t played above AA & hasn’t stayed healthy.
He will mash no matter where he is.
That would be excellent
Not bad, but Chato will be .300/30/100.
Well the numbers projected off his AA numbers certainly aren’t that, so nice that your bullish, but I’ll wait for more sample to buy in.
a 27 yr old AA player?
Ugh
You cant be serious
he’s close to projecting as an 80 hitter with 80 power on the 20-80 scouting scale.”
And I
JIZZED
IN
MY
PANTS
/not out of the ordinary’d
What are we looking at for Arodys next year as far as level/inning limit? Charleston/100?
Yeah, about that.
What current major league players are actually true 80/80 hitters?
Pujols? Is that it?
Pujols might be a 70 power guy. A-Rod’s probably 70-70, Howard’s 80 power, like 50 hit.
Bonds might be the last 80/80 guy. BA tosses 80′s around too easily.
Yeah, I agree. Do you think Montero truly has 80 power potential? I’ve heard of several scouts say this even back when he was signed. But if 80 power means 50 HR a year, I don’t see it.
Probably not, he’s probably a 65 realistically, which is 30-35 homers. 80 power is like, 40+ jacks a year without blinking an eye. Dunn has legit 80 power.
From Matt Eddy’s chat today:
Doug (NYC)
BAs recently released top 10 Yankee prospects states that Jesus Montero “hasn?t delivered completely on his raw power, but he?s close to projecting as an 80 hitter with 80 power on the 20-80 scouting scale.” Does he truly have 80 power potential? Isn’t 80 power like, 40+ jacks a year without blinking an eye?
Matt Eddy
(2:31 PM)
You can argue the finer points with John Manuel during his Yankees chat, but you’re right in that 80 power (on the 20-to-80 scouting scale) translates literally into 35+ home runs. Montero truly is a special talent, capable of hitting for both average and power while making a lot of contact for a slugger. In that regard, he may resemble Miguel Cabrera, a .311 career hitter with a home run title to his name.
That was me. And I apologize to Mike for stealing his “blinking an eye” quote
A-Rod and Hanley probably. Adrian Gonzalez? Texeira? Prince Fielder?
Easy there.
Even if Montero projects to be so poor defensively that you only feel comfortable playing him behind the plate once or twice a week, that is a win-win with a >125 OPS+ bat, no? You play his bat everyday, but without the wear and tear by making him your primary DH and backup C. Then you get yourself a starting catcher and give him his off days as usual, but aren’t forced into playing a Molina-type player once a week. Sort of how like V. Martinez was treated in his pre-Sox days.
Having the ability to play behind the plate, even if at the level of a Matt Nokes/V. Martinez/Jim Leyritz, is so valuable that I cringe every time someone suggests moving him position-wise. Most teams in the league, even among the good ones, are forced to start a Molina-esque black hole bat in 20-25% of their games. Instead, you can fill that lineup spot with a league average or better corner OF or corner IF bat, which are much easier and cheaper to acquire.
I like the idea of him as a back-up catcher to keep his bat in the line-up when someone else needs to DH. If he can catch around 40-50 games a season that works out perfectly. Still would probably need to carry an extra catcher though.
I agree that its really important to keep Montero as a catcher if at all possible, and that if he has below average defense, that’s perfectly acceptable considering the quality of his bat.
I disagree with there being a problem having a Jose Molina-esque player as your backup catcher. He’s above average defensively, and yes, his bat is a blackhole, but that’s why he’s a backup catcher. Most of them are blackholes, but at least Molina is a plus with his glove.
Problem, schmoblem. I know that backup Cs hit like crap. What I said was having a guy who can catch about 40 games a year and provide a bat that is at average or better for a starting catcher is a big advantage. The reason this is such an advantage is exactly because most teams have a crappy hitting backup catcher.
The advantage provided by this is big enough, in fact, that in my opinion you give Montero the chance to stick at catcher even if it is likely that his D will only progress to the level where it is acceptable for that many starts.
I’m more hoping that the combination of Montero’s defense (shitty) and bat (awesome) will be enough to warrant him to catch, y’know, like 120+ games a season.
Its his D is acceptable for 40, why can’t it be acceptable for 120? As long as he mashes the fuck out of the ball than the defensive shortcomings will be more than compensated for.
Don’t get me wrong, I would love to see hims develop enough to be your everyday C. You are missing a huge point about the 40 vs. 120 game issue, though. If he plays 40 games at C, he only has to replace the O+D total value of your available backup catchers. If 120+, then the value of your available starters.
The whole question of whether he can “stick” at C is will his (below average) runs saved on defense be so bad that it eats away too much into his (above average) runs produced on offense such that his total value is less than another starting catcher you can get your hands on (e.g., slightly above average D plus a 775 OPS bat). Your typical all-glove-no-bat backup C has a much lower value to beat.
My point, which you are missing, is that I am saying that IMO you give Montero a chance to develop at C even if it is likely that his defense will stink so badly that his total value will only be better than a typical backup Cs total value. The time lost to Montero developing in the minors longer in this scenario would presumably be balanced out by gains you get in longevity from catching less games.
Well you only need Montero’s longevity to last through his arb-eligible years, unless he merits an extension or whatever.
Why is anyone focused on what Montero is defensively. He is going to be a DH in the ML’s and a nasty one. We have plenty of catching depth and he does not need screw up his knees squatting behind the plate all game. Just hit the crap out of the ball for many years!!
To paraphrase Cashman, DHs fall out of trees.
He would be far more valuable as a catcher hitting like he can. Posada has been sorely underrated, even by a lot of Yankee fans, during the last 10-12 years. His offensive production at catcher puts the Yanks far ahead of most of the rest of the league. When you have an opportunity to get premium offensive production from a catcher, you take it.
You dont have 21 yr old kids DH.
You get max value out of him if hes catching 100 games.
You let the kid catch til he shows he truly cannot.
I saw earlier that someone mentioned Bard’s awful first year and it made me compare the first year numbers between him and Brackman. Although Brackman is a year older and coming off of a major surgery their numbers are strikingly similar in suck-titude, with Bards actually being the worse of the two. I guess the moral of the story is don’t count Brackman out yet.
Which should be the logic everyone follows with regards to Brackman.
He stayed healthy last year. That was objective number one. Now, we wait and see how this year plays out.
Bards 2008 season in the minors was off the charts good.
Brackman has a ways to go before he enters that.
brackman was also 23 in A ball last yr.
The only good thing you can say about him was that he was relatively healthy.
If he puts up 107 K’s in 77 inn like Bard did I’ll gladly eat the words bust.
I doubt it. You’ll probably just pretend like you never said all the shit you said.
Yes I realize Bard had a very good 2008 season in the minors but that isn’t the point I was trying to drive home. At age 22 in predominately A-ball ( he was demoted from high A after 13 innings) he had much worse numbers than Brackman put up this year. He had a WHIP to the tune of 2.05 and a K/BB ratio of .6 (not to mention 47 Ks in 75 innings) not to mention other various awful stats. So while none of that is something good to say about Brackman per se, it hits the point that most everyones exceptional hate of the Brackman draft choice is so far unnecessary and you need to give it a little more time until it is dubbed a failure.
[...] Baseball America’s John Manuel named the Yankees’ top ten prospects (props to RAB) and, surprisingly (…), Jesus Montero was named the team’s number one farmhand. Montero [...]
[...] from behind the plate quite yet, and it’s a driving reason why Baseball America’s Top 10 Yankee prospects list features four catchers. In this day and age, developing a defensively solid catcher who can hit [...]
I wonder where Aroldis Chapman would be on BA’s list, should we sign him.
Given how weak the list is after Montero, he’d have to be either #1 or #2. I’d say #2, since Montero is far more proven.