Do the Yanks really have room for another big contract?
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Sometimes really good just isn’t enough. Yahoo’s Steve Henson tweets that despite the now official Curtis Granderson pickup, the Yankees “aren’t satisfied” with their outfield, and will still be in on free agent Matt Holliday. A source told Pete Caldera that the Yanks still have room in their budget for one big contract, which amazes me if they actually plan on sticking to the projected $190-200M payroll.
“Maybe the budget is something people laugh at,” Cashman said. “It’s high. Clearly it’s the highest in the game. But it’s very defined and so I won’t exceed it.”
Right now, the Yanks have $177.6M tied up in 12 players. That doesn’t include arbitration raises to Chad Gaudin ($3M?), Sergio Mitre ($1.5M?) and Melky Cabrera ($3M?), nor the money owed to Andrew Brackman and Juan Miranda (about $1M). At least six other guys that project to be on the 25-man roster will be making close to the minimum, so let’s call that another $3M. Add it all up, and we get $189.1M. Gaudin is a non-tender candidate despite his strong work in pinstripes, but hopefully they’d tender him a contract and trade him for even a B-prospect instead. You’d have to think there would be a decent market for a guy like that.
So even if they non-tender Gaudin, that leaves them about $14M of wiggle room, assuming they spend to the maximum of that $190-200M range. Is that enough to land Matt Holliday? Probably not. Scott Boras would need to come back to the Yanks late and offer up Holliday at a “reduced rate,” similar to what he did with Carlos Beltran. If they move Melky Cabrera and fill his spot with a guy making the minimum, maybe through the Rule 5 Draft later this morning, then they might have $17M left to offer. That might get Holliday in pinstripes.
However, is that what’s best for the team? Obviously, Matt Holliday is a tremendous player and instantly makes any team he’s on better, although it would push the Yanks right up against their spending limit, leaving them limited room for in-season moves. Plus they’d be without a designated hitter and short some pitching depth with Ian Kennedy gone and Chad Gaudin non-tendered/traded in this scenario.
Instead of putting all their financial eggs in one Holliday basket, Brian Cashman & Co. are probably better off spreading the money around a bit. For $11M, they could could probably bring in one of Nick Johnson or Justin Duchscherer, plus another half-decent player for depth while keeping Gaudin and the Melkman. Sure, Holliday may end up in Boston, but “our rival might get him” does not justify any move.
I’d love to have Matt Holliday in leftfield and hitting fifth behind A-Rod come Opening Day, however not if it comes at the cost of roster and financial flexibility. Remember, the 25 guys that break camp are never the same 25 guys that make up the playoff roster, and it’s already been proven that Brian Cashman will go out and address a weakness mid-season if need be. Frankly, if they’re going to go out and drop big bucks on one player, I’d prefer a high-end pitcher over a high-end position player.
Photo Credit: Gene J. Puskar, AP
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“I’d prefer a high-end pitcher over a high-end position player.”
While this true in most cases you have to look at this specific case. Lackey or Holliday.
Let me say though that i rather have neither. I rather have a cheap, effective full time DH and sign a ben sheets.
You don’t have to be completely locked in at big bucks everywhere…if you do want to go that route, .you could wait a year for a Roy Halladay, or longer for someone else
I really just want a DH. That’s it.
If the Yanks sign Holliday, they can’t add another big pitching contract, probably until lBurnett’s deal is done or if CC opts out which lets hope doesn’t happen….I think Mike Cameron might be a better play, short term commitment. If Cash signs Holliday the Yanks won’t be a player for Halladay or Lee next offseason.
fine with me
These are the Yankees. They really cant take on more salary if need be???
Large free agent pitching contracts don’t work out nearly as often as large free agent contracts for position players. They did it last year because they had to. Now they have an ace and a very good #2. They don’t have to anymore.
Build pitching from within and spend money on the offense.
Just sign Matsui at DH and call it an off-season (for now).
I would rather have Damon… or Matsui… or Cameron… before putting down major money on Holliday.
I really don’t care if the Red Sox get him. Like, at all. Just because Theo is *thinking* that he *might* spend some money is not going to solve that team’s problems.
Does a bear shit in the woods?
Does the Pope shit in the woods?
Is the space pope reptilian?
Did DaVinci paint the Sistine Chapel?
/Lombardi’d
“Early Renaissance, maybe?”
“No, I believe it was one of the Fettucine’s”
Gentlemen, we’ll be successful this year if you can focus on three things, and three things only. Your family, your religion and the Green Bay Packers
/Jimmy V’d
One would think you could pick up Mike Cameron AND Hideki Matsui for what you would pay Matt Holliday. I’d rather have those 2 on 1 year deals than Matt Holliday on a 6 year deal.
+chamillion
As I said in the last thread, I have a hard time believing in a hard budget of $200 million.
Not that I’m advocating for Holliday–I’d rather Cameron and a guy like Sheets (plus maybe Matsui or Delgado to DH).
I would like Thome if the Yanks can’t sign Matsui.
Gotta go with Johnson or Delgado over Thome. Dude looks washed up.
Thome: Is old, will take a one year deal
Delgado: Is old, will take a one year deal
Matsui: Is old, will take a one year deal
Nick Johnson: Is young, will get offered a multi-year deal by someone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WhuikFY1Pg (safe)
Heh. I realize it’s a pipe dream. I get all hot and bothered seeing a career OBP of .400.
I’m with you, but frankly, if the Yankees did things just because they got you all hot and bothered, Cashman would be in a Tiger Woods situation, fighting off allegations from homely Perkins waitresses and trying to sue Playgirl to keep the nude photos from being published.
And how doesnt Delgado look worse not playing in 2009??
Maybe the Yanks do not want to push it any further with the new CBA negotiations coming up. Also you have to factor in the luxury tax.
You could be right about the CBA. But I have to believe that the Yanks’ spending has already given MLB plenty of ammunition. Going to $210 instead of $200 or whatever shouldn’t change things too much.
When you sign the biggest bat two seasons in a row, it does change things. We already signed our huge bats in A-Rod and Tex so now we have to play nice with the rest of the league and make trades and sign guys who are solidly above-average for a bit.
I’d rather see us sign Damon and Matsui than sign Holliday. Even if that means we deal with Johnny in left field with his less than awesome defense. I’m still very high on David DeJesus, and there was a rumor about the Royals being interested in Brett Gardner a while back. I wonder if we could work out something around Gaudin and Gardner, I doubt it would be enough, but it’s a start. Trade for DeJesus to play left field and then one of Damon/Matsui for the DH spot?
Melky could serve as the fourth outfielder, where he can sub in at all three spots no problem. We lose Gardner’s speed off the bench, but Ramiro Pena isn’t too shabby as a pinch runner. A better in shape Melky could be a decent second pinch runner as well.
Everybody knows that I want both Johnny and Matsui back, I love what each brings to the team. But I would rather let one of them go and bring in a DeJesus type player. Somebody that is young, can play some great defense, swing a solid bat, isn’t too shabby on the bases, and cheap. Holliday is a great hitter, but he is going to cost a pretty penny. A lot more than I’m willing to pay with Carl Crawford and Jayson Werth set to be free agents in 2011. Not to mention Jeter’s expiring contract situation…
I still have a hard time getting sold on David DeJesus…yeah I see his WAR and his value and everything…but I’ve had the guy on my fantasy team for a few years now and he’s miserable haha. I find myself searching free agency instead of putting him in at times when I have an opening in the outfield lol
Maybe because he gets caught stealing ALL the time. Brutal. 4 SB in 2009, caught 9 times. Stole 11 in 2008, caught 8 times! He can’t run like he used to. At least w/ Gardner you know you have blinding speed.
I would love to see DeJesus as a Yankee personally. I think he would improve LF tremendously. And I don’t see us giving up way too much in order to get him. I really like the idea.
Upon what do you base this opinion? He’s Melky++. Dejesus’ defense is Damon 2008 defense, but his bat is barely adequate for a LFer.
Lol, I never thought of him as much more than a fourth outfielder on a bad team. But look at those stats: He averaged .281/.354/.417 over the last three years, so we’re not talking about fluke years, and he has decent pop with back to back 10+ homer seasons that will only improve batting at Yankee Stadium. Double digits in steals two of the last three years. And his defense in left field has just been stellar to say the least.
I gotta admit, I don’t hate the idea of having him at the back of our lineup. My only hang up is what it’s going to cost to get him. I’m hoping we can pull off some magic and do something like handing over a decent rotation clog like Gaudin and a prospect like Gardner, might have to sweeten the deal, but I’m definitely calling Kansas City if I’m the general manager.
He averaged .281/.354/.417 over the last three years
That’s basically what Melky gave us last year. Nothing to get overly excited about. I believe he has potential…but I’m telling you…I get angry when I leave him in on accident in my outfield in fantasy lol. He just never does all that much…then again I’ve been spoiled with some awesome teams…
The thing about DeJesus though is that I’m not worried about him suddenly dropping back down to .260ish territory. I love the Melk-Man, don’t get me wrong. It doesn’t take a genius to see that I want to keep him over Gardner. But he is so streaky, I’m always wondering if those streaks are luck or if it’s his real talent showing up.
I know you’re half-kidding but you’ve brought it up a couple of times now so I’m responding… What you do with your fantasy lineup really, really, doesn’t matter.
As far as the Melky comparison… I’m actually softening up on Melky a bit… The guy’s not in his prime yet and has shown improvement… But, right now, DeJesus is pretty clearly the better player.
WAR, 08-09
Melky: 0.1, 1.6
DeJesus: 2.7, 3.2
OPS+, 08-09
Melky: 68, 99
DeJesus: 118, 106
UZR150, 08-09
Melky: 1.6, -2.0
DeJesus: -3.0*, 15.1
*UZR150 in LF was 22.9.
THIS. You saved me a fair amount of time. Thank you.
Clearly I was half-kidding around. And if I had to choose between putting DeJesus and Melky in an outfield spot in fantasy…it would be a simple decision. I was just making conversation I guess with that Melky response. DeJesus just makes me disappoint him haha…I don’t know what it is…maybe it’s just the whole Royals ambiance or something lol
I’m repeating myself here (see this and this, but don’t sleep on DeJesus as a player. We have no idea what it would take to get him in a trade and it’s probably not worth thinking about too much anyway, but he’s better than a lot of people give him credit for, and he’s signed to a decent contract. Per those comments I linked to in which I go into a bit more detail, at this point in his career and in the Yankees lineup and in YS3, he’s a very good defensive left fielder who’d probably give you about a .350 OBP and 15-18 HRs or so. That’s Carl Crawford-esque, minus the speed (which is a big deal, but the comparison is still interesting).
I wrote a long response to this , but it’s just too crazy to post. Crawford compared to Dejesus? really?
I know it’s a crazy comparison, but the numbers really are pretty similar (again, as I noted above and in the linked comment, minus the speed). Go ahead with the long response, you won’t hurt my feelings or anything.
I’ll even throw out some numbers to get you started.
OBP
08 DeJesus: .366
09 DeJesus: .347
08 Crawford: .319
09 Crawford: .364
SLG
08 DeJesus: .452
09 DeJesus: .434
08 Crawford: .400
09 Crawford: .452
OPS
08 DeJesus: .818
09 DeJesus: .781
08 Crawford: .718
09 Crawford: .816
WAR
08 DeJesus: 2.7
09 DeJesus: 3.2
08 Crawford: 2.7
09 Crawford: 5.5
HR
08 DeJesus: 12
09 DeJesus: 13
08 Crawford: 8
09 Crawford: 15
UZR150 in LF
08 DeJesus: 22.9
09 DeJesus: 15.7
08 Crawford: 25.6
09 Crawford: 17.5
Salary 2010:
DeJesus: $4.7M
Crawford: $10.0M
Damn.
Math, and cruelty. I love it.
No cruelty, that was pure, unadulterated helpfulness.
PS: If I was going for cruel, I’d have gone with something like:
http://instantcrickets.com/
No response, long or otherwise? aj?
But I’m just being helpful, so I didn’t.
He’s saying the defense, power and obp are all Crawford-esque. I think the on-base skills and power are similar, but Crawford’s a much better defensive player. That doesn’t take anything away from DeJesus, though; he plays an excellent LF.
He’s not saying he’s Carl Crawford. He’s saying they have many comparable skills (and also pointed out where they differ).
You know, I was looking up dejesus and Melky on Fangraphs just now, and I saw something interesting. Melky, despite posting a positive UZR/150 in CF over the last two years, posted a negative UZR/150 in LF in 2009. SSS, but I wonder if there’s some systematic error in the UZR numbers for LF in YSIII. Damon’s decline was just so enormous that it’s hard to attribute it entirely to him getting old all of a sudden, and this lends a bit of credence to that notion.
How would one look for such a bias? create an aggregate number for ALL LFers in YSIII and compare it to the aggregate of all LFers outside of the stadium?
Defensive metrics are still in their infancy. Keith Law and others have repeatedly said UZR does not work with catchers and first basemen (which is why Teixeira’s UZR isn’t worth looking at), and UZR and other defensive metrics are still learning.
Statistics are great, but they are most advanced for hitting. Pitching has come a long way. But defense is still a project because there are so many factors. They will improve, no doubt, and UZR is still pretty good, but it needs a bit more time to develop into more accurate descriptive powers.
Then again, Damon was still pretty bad.
“Defensive metrics are still in their infancy”
Hey, thanks for assuming I didn’t know that. How, exactly, does the fact that UZR is useless for catchers and not so useful for first basemen apply to left fielders?
What I asked: “Hm. This might indicate there’s a meaningful pattern that systematically underrated LFers in the new stadium, how would one try to verify that hypothesis?”
What you said: “Don’t bother, the numbers are useless for first basemen. Damon did look pretty bad, though.”
That’s not very helpful, and you completely missed my point. The point is that maybe he wasn’t actually as terrible as he seemed. I’m wondering how one might investigate.
Yeah, I would pass on Holliday also. Sign Matsui or Damon for DH. Next, I would sign Sheets to a one year deal with a team option.
For Holliday’s salary we could probably sign both.
If the Yanks sign Holliday, they keep Melky and Gardy, and don’t get a DH.
Jeter
Grandy
Tex
ARod
Holliday
Posada
Swisher (DH)
Cano
Melky/Gardy
Maybe Swisher in RF and Miranda at DH some?
This is better O then last year, and our OF D is above average.
When Posada DH’es (40 games), Melky sits.
Same with ARod and Jeter DH’ing.
Again, there will be old DH’es available in July if this doesn’t work.
We have decent arms on the Farm, but no impact OFers within 3 years.
In general, I am against any more big contracts, as CC, ARod and Tex have tied us up for years, However:
After 2010, Mo may be gone ($15m). He can’t be replaced in kind, but there should be a $$$ savings. Jeter is probably resigned, but I think $15m AAV is VERY generous for a 6’3 SS who is 37. If so, we net $5m+/-.
After 2011, Posada is gone ($13m) and hopefully we have internal solutions. Barring injury, Montero should be worth $80m-$100m (Posada 4/$52). This is why trading him for Roy is WAY, WAY, WAY too expensive.
Lastly, if we do sign Holliday, it’s possible we won’t have to sign another position player for 3 years.
HOWEVER: No matter what we do, if Hughes, Joba and Montero aren’t above average MLB players, and we don’t have some other ‘at least average’ cost controlled kids, we are going to have some hard times after 2011.
OMG Brandon Lyon got 3 years 15 mil from the Astros. Wow.
Unfortunately, he’s easily one of their best players. Awful team. Just awful.
Why do the Astros think they are a contender every year? They continue to sign terrible contracts and refuse to trade away anyone valuable they have for prospects. IDK why else you pay a reliever that much money unless you think you can make the playoffs.
I’ve said it before:
The Astros are the Knicks of baseball. Except there’s no LeBron coming around the corner to save them from themselves.
Cameron+Matsui+Dusch+Escobar+Chapman. You can likely get Cameron, Matsui and Escobar for $16 million. Dusch and Chapman for another $8 mil?
Still too much, I know.
I reaaaaaaaally want the Escobar signing to happen. Chapman too, but imagine Kelvim if he’s at 100%?
Dude has nasty stuff. That’s the definition of low risk, high reward.
But apparently he’s probably going to relieve? per somewhere, because he’s not sure his arm can handle throwing 100 pitches every 5 days, although that could just be speculation
So we build his arm. Start the Kelvim rules!
Agreed. Whether he’s a starter or a reliever, he’s a good bounceback candidate who’s currently not 100% (which actually helps us, since he won’t need a roster spot by Spring Training, when our roster is probably full).
Careful with Chapman. He is WAY overhyped. Farnsworth throws as hard. And maybe Daniel Cabrera. However, Maddux and Hoffman don’t. 100 mph is NO GOOD without command and at least 1 very good secondary pitch (which Chapman has neither of from what I’ve read).
Red Sox have a deal with the Rangers to send Lowell and eat up almost all of his salary for that Max Ramirez guy…
source?
http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/6522415200
sorry…
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....-deal.html
no reason to apologize. was not questioning you, just wondering who was reporting it
Why why WHY would Texas do this? Ramirez looks like an absolute STUD. His MiLB numbers are the same as Montero’s! The kid makes league minimum!!!
I don’t get it! What’s in it for Texas?????
MULTIPLE INTERROBANGS!?!?!??!?!??!??!??!
yup
prelim agreement in place.
greaaaaat, texas is starving on catching now and they do this? unreal.
boston may just go sign beltre now
Yeah, thats the rumor. Beltre will love hitting the ball off of that handball court in left field.
I imagine they will either sign Beltre, or surprise us all with a trade for a big first baseman and move Youkilis to third base. Adrian Gonzalez can only be rumored about for so long before he finally gets traded, though I doubt the Padres let him go just yet.
Why would the Padres give away a very very good affordable San Diego native for overvalued Red Sox prospects? If something DOES happen…I may call for an investigation…
They wouldn’t.
No need to worry. This move was done to clear a spot for Beltre, not to clear a path for Gonzalez or Miggy. They won’t be traded anywhere, least of all to Boston.
Well say the trade does go down…doesn’t this give Beltre a lot of leverage…because without him…they’re pretty much shit out of luck…no??
He can figuratively hold them hostage…
There really isn’t that much more out there I don’t think.
There’s still Feliz on the market, right?
Well say the trade does go down…doesn’t this give Beltre a lot of leverage…
(thinks)
I don’t give a shit.
Yeah. I think I want to see how much the Red Sox pay Beltre before I reserve judgement on this trade.
Also, how are they going to afford Beltre, Bay/Holliday, AND eating up all of Lowell’s contract? I thought they were preaching this “we can’t sign big free agents” cry baby act…
I thought they were preaching this “we can’t sign big free agents” cry baby act…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile_tears
A little late for a Palsy joke, isn’t it?
Maybe the Red Sox can not sign big free agents because they have to pay guys like Lugo, Smoltz, Penny, and now Lowell to play for other teams.
Hmmm… I wonder what the Red Sox could have done with some of the cash they paid other teams to take their players last year. Mark Teixeira anyone?
I wasn’t suggesting that they should, just that that could be in the cards. The D-Backs just gave away a very good, very affordable arm in Max Scherzer for Edwin Jackson. Crazier things have happened, and not all the Red Sox prospects are that over-valued. They’ve got some pretty fine prospects of their own.
Meh. Beltre doesn’t shift the balance of power. Not even close.
True, but dumping Lowell and replacing him with Beltre is a nice improvement for them. Beltre can replicate Lowell’s diminished offense (and should improve himself considerably moving from Safeco to Fenway), and he’s a HUGE improvement defensively.
Plus, Max Ramirez lets them play Martinez more at DH while maintaining a passable bat at C, which will also be important when David Ortiz needs to take most of the 2010 season off to go search for the real killers.
I know very little of Ramirez, but you really think he is ready for the big leagues full time after his performance last year in AAA?
He has less than 90 games total in AAA. Look at his stats before that. He can hit. He should adjust. Will he do it for 2010? Trends say no, but he may be very good in 2011.
Max Ramirez MiLB line: .300 .399 .490 .889
That is sick for a Catcher.
This ‘whatever, it’s not like this makes them better than us’ reaction to every Boston move is like a new meme around here, right?
Boston is making a couple of moves that will probably make them a better team. That’s what they’re supposed to do. Every transaction doesn’t have to be judged through the prism of whether it shifts some imaginary balance of power.
Agreed. Mike Lowell was pretty much a 3 WAR player before last season. Beltre is probably a 3 WAR player. The Red Sox did not really get any better. They just made sure they would not get worse
Which is hardly a bad thing. Say what you will, the Red Sox were a great team last season. Any team that wins 95 games in the AL East is a great team. And with what looks like an even better starting rotation with Buchholz looking great in September and Dice-K returning to form in September and October.
I’m not particularly excited as a Yankee Fan with what will be an upgrade when you consider what would have been had Lowell stuck around at 3B.
They also have to replace Bay’s production which they may not be able to afford to do by having to pay for essentially 2 3B
All things considered, they may be best served just letting Bay walk, not replacing his production, taking the picks, punting on this year and seeing what shakes loose during next winter’s better FA class.
Sox just gotta hope the ball stays away from Beltre’s crotch area.
I lol’d.
Where the fudge are they gonna put Lowell? DH?
I’d think so, can’t imagine them moving Young to ANOTHER position. I don’t see why he’d be an upgrade over Chris Davis at first base, but I’ve never seen Lowell play first. Maybe he goes to first, David moves to the designated hitter spot?
Id love to see him become a good 1b for the Rangers because the Sox could have just put him at 1b and just moved squirrel beard to third.
Yes, but the Sox were worried that Lowell might actually literally die midseason, from a terminal case of “having the body of a 100-year old man” disease.
For the Sox, if they can afford to eat Lowell’s money (which I guess they could), from a RISK standpoint,
Beltre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lowell
They’re turning a big, big questionmark into a small, small questionmark. And, getting a free catcher to boot.
They said 1B, 3B and DH. So they’ll probably rotate him.
Surprised they didn’t do their due diligence and realize he can’t hit or do much of anything outside of Fenway Park…sometimes I wonder…
aren’t they supposed to be getting younger?
Questions about his defense and he struggled in 2009 at AAA…but the dude can definitely hit. Look at his minor league numbers:
http://www.baseball-reference......ma03.shtml
The Sox basically paid $12 million for a few years of a good-hitting catcher.
Smart move for them.
.212 BA with a .345 OBP is pretty respectable too…
I really have no idea why teams always make stupid moves in the Red Sox favor…Texas doesn’t need Lowell at all…and realize he’s useless…
What’s the point?? Just so you can trick your fans that you actually did “something” at the meetings??
I’m not concerned. I mean if the Beltre rumors are true and he ends up going to the Sox for say….4/50. That probably takes them out of the running for Holliday and/or Halladay unless ownership allows them to expand payroll. They’re essentially going to be spending 20 million this season on third base between Beltre and Lowell.
The Red Sox now have 2 catchers that should probably be either 1B/DH and a third who is utterly useless. I really do not think you can discount his AAA stats. Those are some really bad numbers in a pretty large sample size.
I’m not discounting them, but I think his previous years are more indicative of his hitting ability than his less than 100 games at AAA. I’m not saying he’s a lock to hit .300 with 25 home runs, especially not in 2010, but the dude knows how to hit. They made a good move. No shame in admitting that.
I’m also only going on what I hear about his defense, that it’s meh-adequate, which isn’t the worst thing if they can handle the stick.
See: Posada, Jorge
Matsui(7.5)+ Cameron (7) + Sheets (5.5 base +incentives) would probably come in around 20 mil, solve all the holes and not lock anything in long term. This would also make Melky easy to deal (save that 3 mil), wont need Mitre either and would rather take the risk on Kelvim than Mitre. So more like 205 than 200.
Cameron would want more then 7 million right?
if abreu gets 9 i dont see Cammy getting more than 7-8, but that’s me.
If Abreu gets 9 mil, I gotta believe Godzilla is in the 5-8 million dollar range. Damon for ten mil, Matsui for 8 mil, still cheaper than Holliday.
Why would Cameron take 7 when he has 6+ teams chasing him?
except sheets is at 12mm asking price as of now…
then he’s nuts if Harden who pitched last year can only get 6.5+incentives while sheets was out a whole year.
I think the Sheets ship has sailed. We don’t have room for him, and this pitching market has been set at prices we don’t want to pay.
Andy’s it. I doubt we sign any other pitcher to a major league deal.
Do you think Dusch would take a minor league deal?
Last rumor I heard on him was that he was looking for a long-term deal…so I assume if that’s true…that would mean “no.” lol
Ah well.
No, I doubt it.
We’re firmly in the Escobar/Wang/Lowry stratosphere of rehab guys on minor league deals now, methinks. Oh, and Aroldis Chapman.
Lowry is fodder. Wang could be good. Escobar is the guy I like most of those three.
And a definite yes to Chaphombre.
interesting name for you tommie. kevin correia is about to get ditched by the padres because he wouldnt take their offer. he still has 1 or 2 years of team control left. very solid pitcher who last year pitched to a value of 10.9 mil and shouldnt cost more than maybe 2.5-3mil. can be like another gaudin.
Sure, why not.
(He probably gets dumped by us in May, however, when he realizes he’s not good enough to crack our depth chart.) But, don’t look a gift lottery-ticket in the mouth.
we go with the super versatile bullpen with Gaudin, Ace and Correia all capable of starting, long-man and short stints.
Along with obviously K-Rob, Marte, Mo and hopefully Melancon.
Meh, I’m all for giving Kevin Correia a minor-league deal and a spring training lottery ticket, but, frankly, I doubt he beats out Sergio Mitre.
He’s nothing special.
I’d say sign Nick Johnson to DH. Dude was a solid .200 ISO guy before having wrist surgery only to have a .114 last year. You assume that he bounces back from that and suddenly you could be looking at a .280/.420/.510 monster hitting in front of two of the best hitters in the league. I’m not sure at all what he’s asking for but would 3/15 be a horrible deal? Patience is the one skill that usually doesn’t decline with age and you’re still getting mostly peak seasons. On top of that, give Justin Duchscherer a shot at maybe another 5 million plus incentives.
Jeter SS
Johnson DH
Tex 1B
ARod 3B
Posada C
Granderson CF
Swisher RF
Cano 2B
Melky LF
with
CC/AJ/Pettite/Joba/Hughes
Rivera/Duchscherer/Robertson/Marte/Aceves/Gaudin/Rule V guy say Caminero
Obviously Duchscherer can be in the bullpen or the rotation but that’s a championship team right there
Nick Johnson would be great but I read that he wanted to play 1st base. Nick is perfect for the 2 hole.
He can want to play first base all he wants but he’s got to find a team that thinks he can play a full season at first base and pays him the money he thinks he deserves.
He’ll find a team (much to my chagrin).
I want Rafael Soriano. Give up some low level pitchers and Gaudin and they can have Soriano and Damon @ DH.
Soriano wants to close. Not happening.
Meh, I bet Soriano would be willing to come here and set up Mo.
I doubt Cashman does it, though. Not with our current budget and Soriano’s current pricetag.
Soriano’s great, but paying 8M to a relief arm isn’t our style, especially when DRob may be able to match him if things work out well, and we’re still well stocked with other hard throwers to boot.
I understand the concerns about a long contract and that the money could be spent on a pitcher next offseason, but really:
Jeter
Granderson
Teixeira
Rodriguez
Holliday
Posada
Swisher
Cano
Gardbrera
Commence the drooling.
P.S. This still depends on price of course. I’m by no means saying we should spend whatever it takes to get Holliday.
Holliday will also accomplish the goal of getting younger and better.
Current 25-man:
————–
C- Posada
1B- Tex
2B- Cano
SS- Jeter
3B- ARod
LF- Melky
CF- Granderson
RF- Swisher
DH- ________
————–
BackupC- Cervelli
UTI- Peña
4thOF- Gardner
25thMan- ________ (Russo? Miranda? Nuñez? Corona?)
————–
SP- Sabathia
SP- Burnett
SP- Pettitte
SP- Joba
SP- Hughes
————–
Closer- Mo
RP- Marte
RP- Robertson
RP- Aceves
RP- Gaudin
RP- Kroenke (regrettably)
RP- ________ (Albaladejo? Melancon? Nova? Romulo? Mitre?)
————–
——————————————
Strategy A:
We have three holes remaining on the active roster: the DH, the 7th man in the bullpen, and the last position player on the bench (25th man). The two bench spots can be filled by some young, cheap, optionable players on the 40-man. We need to sign a DH. There are oodles of available DH’s on the market, either traditional ones like Matsui/Thome/Delgado/Johnson/Cust/Bonds or outfielder-types who can play the field for when we want to occasionally play ARod/Jeter/Posada at DH, like Damon or Cameron. These DH’s can virtually all be had on one year deals for under 10M. Sign one DH, thus finalizing the roster and hitting the budget, then pack up shop and call it a winter (excepting for the minor-league rehab contracts for a Kelvim Escobar or something to add pitching depth AND Aroldis Chapman, which is a separate budget, of course.)
Strategy B:
We have FOUR holes remaining on the active roster: the DH, the LF, and the last two men on the bullpen/bench. We have two holes because we don’t want Melky starting every day, we want him on the bench. (If that pushes Gardner to Scranton, so be it.) We thus need both a DH AND a leftfielder. One player from the oodles of available DH’s on the market, either traditional ones like Matsui/Thome/Delgado/Johnson/Cust/Bonds DH group and one player from the Damon/Cameron group.
Sign TWO more bats, both on short-term deals, move Melky to the bench, move Gardner into the Russo/Miranda/Nuñez/Corona spring training battle, go slightly overbudget by 3-5M, then pack up shop and call it a winter (excepting for the minor-league rehab contracts for a Kelvim Escobar or something to add pitching depth AND Aroldis Chapman, which is a separate budget, of course.)
Strategy C:
Say “Fuck it” and sign Holliday. Put him in RF, and make LF/DH a rotating threesome of Swisher/Melky/Miranda. Show no fiscal restraint. Keep your fingers crossed that it doesn’t come back to haunt you. Sign both Aroldis and Wagner Mateo.
Strategy D:
Make another trade for an OFer, like Willingham then say “fuck it” and sign Lackey.
No.
No to Lackey? if so, yeah I figure.
Meh, no to either.
I’d love Willingham, but I doubt I’d love Willingham’s price. One OF via trade is plenty this winter.
I like the “fuck it” strategy. Unless it interferes with us getting a big starter next year. Which it probably wouldn’t. Cmon damnit, we’re the Yankees.
FWIW, strategy C is my least favorite, by far.
B is the fairest strategy in terms of filling needs most effectively and staying close to budget.
You should add them signing Cyclops Mateo to B. Again, different budget.
I didn’t really want us to sign Mateo. I just wrote up the “fuck it, let’s go nuts” strategy, and he popped into my mind as the perfect cherry on top.
Call it a gift to Andy in Sunny Daytona.
Fair enough. I still don’t think he’s gotten over the Twins signing Sano. Maybe he has a younger brother we can sign as a consolation package.
So say you sign a LF. Why wouldn’t that push Gardner to the 25th man spot?
Strategy A is best for the “budget”…but I like Strategy B as well. Either of those. Not a big fan of Strategy C though…but I guess I’d have no choice but to deal with it if it happened…
I don’t like the Kroenke idea and I’m praying that it’s not true. If I were Cash, I’d honestly sign Nick Johnson (unless Bonds really is available) and kick the tired on Sheets/Duchscherer and otherwise call it an offseason.
now why would Cashman sign Bonds? down with Bonds.
Short porch, give that guy a needle and he’d hit 80 homers
now why would Cashman sign Bonds?
Because we’re the Yankees, and we’re here to fuck shit up.
/Tuxedo’d
I’m not getting on the Nick Johnson trade until I have reason to believe that he’d accept a one year offer.
Dude may be a walking infirmary, but he’s still only a 31 year old man who put up a .291/.426/.405 (122+) last year. SOMEBODY will offer him a two year deal that will be too rich for our blood.
Nick Johnson is OVERQUALIFIED for the low-rent position we’re trying to fill.
Sorry:
“I’m not getting on the Nick Johnson
tradetrain until I have reason to believe that he’d accept a one year offer.”NJ has ridiculous situational stats as well, but considering Humpty Dumpty laughs at how brittle he is:
Mets should take a two year flier on him, but does anyone go 2 years 18 on him? and if so, is that really budget breaker?
Hmmm….
C-Jorge Posada
1B-Mark Teixeira
2B-Robinson Cano
3B-Alex Rodriguez
SS-Derek Jeter
LF-Mike Cameron
CF-Curtis Granderson
RF-Melky Cabrera
DH-Nick Swisher
Backup C-Francisco Cervelli
4th OF-Brett Gardner
Util-Ramiro Pena
25th Man-Juan Miranda
SP-CC Sabathia
SP-AJ Burnett
SP-Andy Pettitte
SP-Joba Chamberlain
SP-Phil Hughes
CL-Mariano Rivera
Bridge to Mo-Dave Robertson
RP-Damaso Marte
RP-Alfredo Aceves
RP-Mark Melancon
RP-Kroenke
P-Sheets or Duch
P-Sheets or Duch
Sheets or J-Douche are going to take a spot in our bullpen?
Good luck with that pipedream.
Nah if we signed either one of them, I would give them the 4th spot in the rotation and of Joba and Hughes, shift the guy who doesn’t win the 5th starter job to the bullpen. The likelihood that our rotation (Burnett, Pettitte, Sheets/Duch, Joba/Hughes) makes it through the season without injury is very low so Joba and Hughes would both end up making plenty of starts probably.
unbelievable defensive outfield. would put cameron in center though. and take escobar instead of sheets for less $$$
and take escobar instead of sheets for less $$$
While I think there’s no way Sheets actually ends up here, this above line of thought is wrong.
Sheets could cost 5 times as much as Escobar (in fact, he probably will), but you should want Sheets way more than Escobar. Because A) he’s far better and B) he’s far healthier.
I’m leading the Escobar fanwagon precisely because Escobar has a VERY sketchy injury record, and thus, is desperate enough to only ask for a minor league deal. Because there’s a good chance he never makes it all the way back.
Sheets is a much safer bet. If he’d come here, you’d want him and not Esco, even at a much higher price.
(But he wouldn’t come here, so… whatevs.)
Hmmm… pretty.
Just guessing on some numbers here, but would you rather have:
Matsui: 8 million
Delgado: 4 million
I don’t think Matsui would get that much, but if your numbers are accurate, I’d take Delgado. Save that money and use it elsewhere for depth.
Agreed.
Every penny we don’t give our DH is a penny we can give Aroldis Chapman.
How much do you guys think Matsui will get? Also it is possible that Delgado may not even get 4 mill
Because there are lots of guys on the DH market and some that could be (Damon, Johnson), most of which will likely take a 1-year deal, it’s a depressed market. Especially for guys that are injury-flagged. Abreu didn’t get more than $5 mil. playing a position last year when there weren’t a ton of options.
I don’t see Matsui getting more than $6.5 mil. Delgado could probably be had for $3-3.5 million, Vlad for around $4 million, Thome for $2.5 million. Damon and Johnson both get 2-year deals. Cameron gets a one-year for about $9 million.
B or C. Option “A” is based on a seemingly arbitrary budget number. Fuck that noise. This new stadium is a license to print money. Yanks can afford $210 or $220 million. They’ll make up the difference in 2010 and 2011 World Series Champions merchandise sales.
Best case scenario: Halliday gets traded to the Angels (Him, and Lee would be filthy in Philly). Bay goes to Seattle, and Holliday to the Mets. Leaving Lackey for the Yankees. Yankees would beat Boston by at LEAST 10 games (Because the Yanks would be stronger and Boston MUCH weaker).
Didnt think we’d get thru the whole thread without eric advocating a Cameron move.
Well, you can’t make lemonade from lemons.
Sincerely,
Robert Grant a/k/a/ Sal/Bo/Grant/Lanny
Damon and Matsui 1 year each 9-10 million each. Next year assuming this is it for them and Pettite-thats 30 million. We sign Halladay as a free agent-Jeter to LF.
Is Halladay going to play SS?
Nah, Mariano Rivera.
It’s really simple: sign either Damon or Cameron. no Matsui (we need a guy who can both dh and play the field when it’s time to rest the veterans). Plus sign either Sheets, Escobar or Duchscherer.
10MM + 8MM.
Bonus: Chapman
Here’s a good one. Now that Harden is gone…Who would you take? Escobar, Duchscherer or Sheets?
I like Escobar best. Then Sheets. I want the upside.
sheets has the most upside on the mound, but esco has the most in terms of mound vs salary cost.
Escobar > Sheets > Duchscherer. but it depends on the asking prices.
I’d take Sheets, no doubt about it as long as money weren’t an option. I really think they’ll end up with Duchscherer
In order of preference:
Sheets >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Duchscherer >>> Escobar
In order of likelihood of signing with the Yankees, who aren’t promising anyone anything now that the CC-AJ-Andy-Joba-Phil rotation is under contract and in place:
Escobar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Duchscherer >>>> Sheets
Sacrificing payroll to sign Holliday is not a good idea. There are still a number of holes that need to be addressed, mainly LF, DH, SP and a RP or two.
Bullpen right now is – Mo, Robertson, Marte
Former Relievers who are potential staters with innings caps- Hughes and Aceves
” ” with no innings caps- Joba
Starters- CC, AJ, Andy
To me this is a problem. Melancon and Dunn are not the answer. While I love the potential of Hughes and Joba, you need a back-up starter or two. Already got rid of IPK, and to not sign Gaudin would further hurt their depth.
You have to figure the backups (C, IF, OF) will be signed for minimum, so Gardner, Pena and Cervilli at this point (no molina).
As for Boston, not quite sure this move makes sense. Lowell is actually better than Beltre the last few years, esp for Fenway. You have to figure Beltres 48 HR out of nowhere in 2004 were PEDs. And they would have to pay twice. More likely they put Youlikis at 3rd, Martinez at 1st and are stuck with Varitek at C.
I could see Youk at 3B, V-Mart at 1B, and Max Ramirez doing the bulk of the catching.
Probably too soon for Ramirez. He’s a backup part-timer at this point.
Who gets more reps at catcher … Varitek or Ramirez?
Ramirez might even be in AAA for the first half of the year. Probably V-Tek.
It’s 1 am. I need to dream a bit.
2011 yankees line-up
Derek Jeter SS
Carl Crawford LF
Mark Teixeira 1B
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Jorge Posada DH
Robinson Cano 2B
Curtis Granderson CF
Nick Swisher RF
Jesus Montero C
Starting Rotation
CC Sabathia
Josh Johnson (acquired via trade for Chamberlain, McAllister and lesser prospects; agree to team-friendly extension)
AJ Burnett
Phil Hughes
Aroldis Chapman (after tremendous season in Scranton)
P.S.: I perfectly know that won’t happen.
Salaries in order:
20
15
23
31
13
10
8
9
peanuts
23
12
16
4
4
that adds up to 178MM plus maybe 22 MM more for the bullpen and the bench. 200MM.
It’s so damn pretty, I have to say it twice:
I read this, and “You Make My Dreams Come True” by Hall and Oats started playing in my head.
so you are going to get the entire bullpen and bench outside of mo and marte for 3 mil? since if mo comes back im sure he gets 15+ again.
melky alone if he is still here would make that.
make it 205MM. if they sign crawford and montero is called up they surely trade melky for prospects.
Supposedly Texas offered smoak and neftali. How does smoak compare to montero???
In a year from now, if Johnson doesn’t get extended, Florida WILL have to trade him and get something in return. one year of Johnson is less expensive than two years. Plus, let us dream.
Smoak is not the same level hitter but we wont get what Montero is worth as a hitter until he proves he can either be a catcher or has a defined position.
Eh, but smoak is a 1b, worse case montero can do that. How do their bats compare? Does smoak have more value cause he is already doing it at the major league level?
I read this, and “You Make My Dreams Come True” by Hall and Oats started playing in my head.
Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com heard from a source that the rumored Mike Lowell-for-Max Ramirez trade “could still blow up.”
The Rangers have concerns about Lowell’s hip and thumb issues, and rightly so. He exhibited real durability issues this past season and hasn’t played over 120 games since 2007. Lowell will be playing a less demanding position in Texas (first base), but that doesn’t mean he can stay healthy for the entire season. Stay tuned; this thing might not get sorted out quickly.
Source: Ken Rosenthal on Twitter
lets hope
They already have Davis and Smoak. Why do that?!
“Smoak type bat??” – TSJC (as Peter Gammons)
If the Kroenke news is real, i’m kinda disappointed; no tears however.
Of course i’ve never seen Kroenke pitch, and for all i know, he’s potentially just as effective as Phil Coke in 1-batter situations. He is practically a finished product at this point, and i guess the brass wants to get a known commodity that’s likely to get selected. The brass must think that Kroenke can make any number of teams lacking a lefty specialist.
Hey…its not like we’re missing out on Tosoni.
To stay on point: I’m gonna champion the “lets stay flexible at LF” line. Just sign Cameron already! JD has priced himself out of consideration.
i dont see the point of taking kroenke because he isnt going to stick on a 25 man so someone will send him back to us. might as well take a shot on someone like Aneury Rodriguez or the buzz name of the day from Jon Mayo John Raynor.
Can rule 5 drafted players be traded? why wouldnt they need to clear waivers first?
They get drafted and put onto the drafting team’s 40-man. They then get traded and put onto the receiving team’s 40-man.
You only have to put a guy through waivers to remove him from the roster.
They get drafted and put onto the drafting team’s
40-man25-man active roster. They then get traded and put onto the receiving team’s40-man25-man active roster.You only have to put a guy through waivers to remove him from the 25-man active roster.
Fixed.
TSJC, did you go to bed last night at all? lol
Yeah, got 6 hours worth.
It is possible that the Red Sox will be paying close to $40 million next year for the left side of the infield.
But the industry is hurting!
Why would they trade Bruney to keep Kroenke? Couldn’t they just as easily non-tendered Bruney and replaced him on the 40-man with Kroenke?
As for another big contract, how about a medium contract? I saw Cashman on MLB Network today talking about Granderson, and he mentioned that Granderson is one of the players in the game who has a great reputation and is loved in the club house…and then he added, “like Mike Cameron.” Why would he mention Cameron out of the blue? My guess is there is one of two reasons: One, he’s considering Cameron and it slipped. More likely is he’s letting Scott Boras know that not only have we traded for Granderson, but we also might sign Camerson, so you better get on board or there will be no room left on the Yankees for Damon.
Guys like Cashman don’t just “let it slip” to the media. He’s a calculating man. What he said was no mistake. They’re getting set to give Damon a low offer and say, “This is the only contract you’ll see from us. We don’t need you. You have five seconds to take a one-year, $10 million contract.”
soriano traded to the rays pending a physical
well the rays just fixed their biggest problem
we kill bullpens, though
Was the bullpen the Rays “biggest problem”?
Or was it the regressions of B.J. Upton and Dioner Navarro, the black holes in RF and DH, and the collapse of the back end of the rotation (i.e. Sonnanstine, Kazmir)?
Adding Soriano is a good move for them. But, do you remember when the Mets added K-Rod and J.J. Putz, and everyone said “Oh, they fixed the bullpen, their biggest problem, now everything is awesome and they’re going to the World Series!”
Yeah… good times.
Had a discussion at work about the Granderson trade and there was some speculation (assuming the OFers stay as is) about having Melky play right due to his superior throwing arm. I’m not sold on having Swisher play left but I do like the idea of a bigger arm in right.
Any thoughts?
I don’t think it would be smart to sacrifice Melky’s range in LF for a better arm in RF. LF is a harder position then RF in NY and Melky is a better defender then Swisher therefore Melky in LF and Swisher in RF.
It could be moot though if we decide to sign Cameron and I think we will unless JD doen’t play the Scott Boras game. So let’s say Cameron did join NY in that case the D-Alignment would be.
LF Cameron
CF Granderson
RF Cabrera
DH Swisher
It’s possible Cammy and Grandy could switch but I doubt it considering Grandy is long term and Cammy would be short term.
Its not the worst thing and it could be a great defensive of. You have to think a bat could be had at the break if Cameron or Melk stink it up.
If the budget really is an issue, this is a nice solution.
you’d have to assume that Miranda would be able to outhit melk, though, right? do we want a seatle mariners defense that bad?
I’d say that if we add Cameron and that’s it (no other LF/DH added), we’ll see these two primary alignments:
Against righties:
LF Cameron
CF Granderson
RF Swisher
DH Miranda
Against lefties:
LF Cameron
CF Granderson
RF Cabrera
DH Swisher
What time does the draft start today?
Anyone know?
9am
How long do you get? Is it like the NFL where it’s like 9 hours per draft pick?
Oh no, it’s one after the other. Like, 10 seconds per pick.
Are we really getting Kroenke?? Didn’t we why we wouldn’t have just designated Bruney for assignment to make room for Kroenke on the roster in the first place? And why add Kroenke to the 25 man roster if Dunn is much better anyway? There HAS to be better players out there to pick from…
The thing I don’t get is…all these writers are adding in “it doesn’t look like with this Granderson deal that the Yankees are going to go after Damon…but the possibility that the Yankees deal Swisher and/or Melky Cabrera to make room for Damon is still very likely.” Of course that isn’t verbatim, but it’s equally as annoying as what I’ve been reading.
Why, in God’s name, would the Yankees ever get rid of good cheap affordable contributers…to make room for expensive declining old guys?? The best part is in a previous paragraph they were writing about how the Yankees showed how they want to get younger with the Granderson acquisition. These guys are unreal.
I don’t want Holliday or Damon, I’d rather have them get Cameron or Matsui and offseason over
so you wouldnt want them getting the superior players??
i don’t think it’s worth the money because we can just use melky in left we’ll have almost the same or better production from the outfield nxt year
WHY THE FUCK DO YOU CARE WHAT THE YANKEES ARE SPENDING????? THAT’S JUST DUMB, WHY ARE YOU SO DUMB????
/Lanny’d
Why wouldn’t The Red Sux just sign Nick Johnson and Bay/Holiday?
And why wouldn’t the Yankees just get one of the old DH’s mentioned, sign a good defensive OFer who hits LHP like Cameron or Michaels or Reed Johnson, and then get one of the FA pitcher reclamation projects?
If the Yankees are going to strictly adhere to the $200M ceiling, Holliday doesn’t make sense. If that’s bullshit and they’re good for committing to a $210M-ish salary for the next 5+ years, then Holliday makes sense.
Andrew Brackman and Juan Miranda equal about $1 million?
Brackman signed a contract for 4 years and $4.55 million, which runs through this next season, with club options through 2013. That’s $1.1375 million per season. Unless it’s backloaded or something, which Cot’s doesn’t show.
I put together what the current 40-man roster and payroll looks like: http://tinyurl.com/ybos3r4
[...] as leverage, and are probably threatening another acquisition — possibly Mike Cameron, possibly Matt Holliday — to replace Damon. As Buster continues, “The Yankees intend to use market forces to [...]
[...] Sheets, Kelvim Escobar, and Ryota Igarashi, and of course they’re still in on Roy Halladay. They might not have room for another big contract, [...]