Comments on: Joba, Phil and the 2010 bullpen http://riveraveblues.com/2009/12/joba-phil-and-the-2010-bullpen-21432/ A New York Yankees Blog Wed, 15 Feb 2012 02:01:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Why it’s Duchscherer, Sheets, or stand put with the pitching staff | River Avenue Blues http://riveraveblues.com/2009/12/joba-phil-and-the-2010-bullpen-21432/#comment-725217 Why it’s Duchscherer, Sheets, or stand put with the pitching staff | River Avenue Blues Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:01:19 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=21432#comment-725217 [...] discussed the rotation situation last night, debunking an ESPN Radio report that claimed only one of Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain would be [...] [...] discussed the rotation situation last night, debunking an ESPN Radio report that claimed only one of Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain would be [...]

]]> By: Francis Isberto http://riveraveblues.com/2009/12/joba-phil-and-the-2010-bullpen-21432/#comment-725053 Francis Isberto Sat, 19 Dec 2009 00:43:55 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=21432#comment-725053 Honestly, I would prefer Joba and even Phil Hughes to be inserted back in the bullpen. Both of them can start but they are more effective coming out of the pen where their innings are decreased. The bullpen will be outstanding with Mariano Rivera leading the way plus you got two set-up and long reliever guys like Joba and Phil Hughes. Add more guys like D-Rob and lefty Marte and you got yourself a super dependable bullpen. The Yanks should get 1 starter from the free agency pool and get one internally (Gaudin, Aceves). Honestly, I would prefer Joba and even Phil Hughes to be inserted back in the bullpen. Both of them can start but they are more effective coming out of the pen where their innings are decreased.

The bullpen will be outstanding with Mariano Rivera leading the way plus you got two set-up and long reliever guys like Joba and Phil Hughes. Add more guys like D-Rob and lefty Marte and you got yourself a super dependable bullpen.

The Yanks should get 1 starter from the free agency pool and get one internally (Gaudin, Aceves).

]]> By: yankeewanabe http://riveraveblues.com/2009/12/joba-phil-and-the-2010-bullpen-21432/#comment-724464 yankeewanabe Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:24:09 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=21432#comment-724464 i'm pretty sure cashman would sign sheets/duch to set up a competion for the two rotation spots . i’m pretty sure cashman would sign sheets/duch to set up a competion for the two rotation spots .

]]> By: Benjamin Kabak http://riveraveblues.com/2009/12/joba-phil-and-the-2010-bullpen-21432/#comment-724412 Benjamin Kabak Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:51:42 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=21432#comment-724412 It's all about the headphones! And pumping up the volume. I've had to transcribe my fair share of muffled interviews too. But yeah, shame on 1050. They were being completely sensationalistic. It’s all about the headphones! And pumping up the volume. I’ve had to transcribe my fair share of muffled interviews too. But yeah, shame on 1050. They were being completely sensationalistic.

]]> By: TopChuckie http://riveraveblues.com/2009/12/joba-phil-and-the-2010-bullpen-21432/#comment-724302 TopChuckie Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:41:54 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=21432#comment-724302 Sorry, Clemens did, so let's take perhaps the best pitcher our our lifetimes, who was also roided up, and use him as proof Joba would be able to do the same. And all, or most, of those other "bulldog" examples were able to sit in the upper 90's as starters, Joba clearly isn't able. If he we able to consistently hit 97 throughout his starts, ala Verlander, then fine, but he isn't, and because of that he is struggling a bit as a starter. Again, I am fully supportive of starting Joba in the rotation this year and giving him another chance, but I think it has to work this year or I've seen enough. Sorry, Clemens did, so let’s take perhaps the best pitcher our our lifetimes, who was also roided up, and use him as proof Joba would be able to do the same.

And all, or most, of those other “bulldog” examples were able to sit in the upper 90′s as starters, Joba clearly isn’t able. If he we able to consistently hit 97 throughout his starts, ala Verlander, then fine, but he isn’t, and because of that he is struggling a bit as a starter.

Again, I am fully supportive of starting Joba in the rotation this year and giving him another chance, but I think it has to work this year or I’ve seen enough.

]]> By: TopChuckie http://riveraveblues.com/2009/12/joba-phil-and-the-2010-bullpen-21432/#comment-724285 TopChuckie Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:34:27 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=21432#comment-724285 Joba struggles with stamina per game, not per season, in that he has to back off a bit to make it to the 6th inning, which any pitcher would compared to being a reliever, however it appears to hurt Joba more than others. His early season starts were average, sure he struck out 12 in 5.2 IP, but he also gave up 6 hits and 4 runs. Is that an effective start? Walks got him in trouble a lot and pushed up his pitch counts. When he was able to limit the H/IP he negated it with too many BB/IP. For three starts in late July he was great. After that he was awful. Never said Joba wasn't an SP prospect, just saying Hughes was a more highly regarded SP prospect. Phil Hughes was a top 3 SP prospect in all of baseball, Joba was never that. I just feel in watching them that Hughes is a more polished, well rounded pitcher than Joba. Hughes is a pitcher whereas Joba is a thrower, if you will. Never said you had to have a bulldog tenacity to be a closer, though I think you do, Mariano's is just mostly kept inside. The Mariano argument is silly. Just because a guy might be too emotional to handle starting, that doesn't equate to "you have to be very emotional to be a closer." Also, if it were just temperament then fine, overcome it, but mix in temperament with decreased velocity and you start to have a problem. Joba clearly wants to blow away every single batter, and a starter simply can't do that. Joba struggles with stamina per game, not per season, in that he has to back off a bit to make it to the 6th inning, which any pitcher would compared to being a reliever, however it appears to hurt Joba more than others.

His early season starts were average, sure he struck out 12 in 5.2 IP, but he also gave up 6 hits and 4 runs. Is that an effective start? Walks got him in trouble a lot and pushed up his pitch counts. When he was able to limit the H/IP he negated it with too many BB/IP.

For three starts in late July he was great.

After that he was awful.

Never said Joba wasn’t an SP prospect, just saying Hughes was a more highly regarded SP prospect. Phil Hughes was a top 3 SP prospect in all of baseball, Joba was never that. I just feel in watching them that Hughes is a more polished, well rounded pitcher than Joba. Hughes is a pitcher whereas Joba is a thrower, if you will.

Never said you had to have a bulldog tenacity to be a closer, though I think you do, Mariano’s is just mostly kept inside. The Mariano argument is silly. Just because a guy might be too emotional to handle starting, that doesn’t equate to “you have to be very emotional to be a closer.”

Also, if it were just temperament then fine, overcome it, but mix in temperament with decreased velocity and you start to have a problem. Joba clearly wants to blow away every single batter, and a starter simply can’t do that.

]]> By: kunaldo http://riveraveblues.com/2009/12/joba-phil-and-the-2010-bullpen-21432/#comment-724273 kunaldo Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:32:08 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=21432#comment-724273 you know who else had a bulldog mentality? Rogah Clemens...oh, wait, he just snorted like a bull after gene monahan rubbed cayenne pepper on his balls(or something like that) you know who else had a bulldog mentality? Rogah Clemens…oh, wait, he just snorted like a bull after gene monahan rubbed cayenne pepper on his balls(or something like that)

]]> By: Steve H http://riveraveblues.com/2009/12/joba-phil-and-the-2010-bullpen-21432/#comment-724260 Steve H Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:28:26 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=21432#comment-724260 Let's go with some historical ones: Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan, Bob Feller, Tom Seaver......... Let’s go with some historical ones:

Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan, Bob Feller, Tom Seaver………

]]> By: Matt ACTY/BBD http://riveraveblues.com/2009/12/joba-phil-and-the-2010-bullpen-21432/#comment-724146 Matt ACTY/BBD Fri, 18 Dec 2009 14:55:10 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=21432#comment-724146 <strong>I agree if it’s Hughes, but I’m starting to think Joba just doesn’t have the stamina to get the most out of his pitches as a starter.</strong> This is what I don't get. Joba just pitched a full season in the majors, something Hughes has never done. So, why would Joba struggle w/stamina? <strong>If he’s mediocre as a starter again this season I think it’s time to groom him as the future closer. </strong> No it's not. It's time to maybe start considering it, but I wouldn't want him relieving until he proves he can't be anything more than he is right now, which is <cite>very</cite>doubtful. <strong>Hughes I have a little more patience with because he was always more highly regarded as a starter prospect in the first place, he has shown flashes of brilliance as a starter, and just hasn’t gotten as much opportunity to show what he can really do yet, either due to injury or team needs.</strong> Literally everything you just said could be said about Joba Chamberlain. --Was a starter in college and the minors --Has shown flashes of brilliance (see: 2008, middle of 2009) --Injured in 2008, development hurt by team needs in '07. He never should've been relieving. Ever. <strong>Joba appears to need that extra MPH to really be effective and I believe his temperament is more suited for the bullpen.</strong> Does he, though? Just because he struggled after reaching an innings high doesn't mean he "needs" the extra zip on his fastball to be successful. Control is far more important than velocity and once he can calm the walks down--which comes with time and experience--he'll be fine. I agree if it’s Hughes, but I’m starting to think Joba just doesn’t have the stamina to get the most out of his pitches as a starter.

This is what I don’t get. Joba just pitched a full season in the majors, something Hughes has never done. So, why would Joba struggle w/stamina?

If he’s mediocre as a starter again this season I think it’s time to groom him as the future closer.

No it’s not. It’s time to maybe start considering it, but I wouldn’t want him relieving until he proves he can’t be anything more than he is right now, which is verydoubtful.

Hughes I have a little more patience with because he was always more highly regarded as a starter prospect in the first place, he has shown flashes of brilliance as a starter, and just hasn’t gotten as much opportunity to show what he can really do yet, either due to injury or team needs.

Literally everything you just said could be said about Joba Chamberlain.
–Was a starter in college and the minors
–Has shown flashes of brilliance (see: 2008, middle of 2009)
–Injured in 2008, development hurt by team needs in ’07. He never should’ve been relieving. Ever.

Joba appears to need that extra MPH to really be effective and I believe his temperament is more suited for the bullpen.

Does he, though? Just because he struggled after reaching an innings high doesn’t mean he “needs” the extra zip on his fastball to be successful. Control is far more important than velocity and once he can calm the walks down–which comes with time and experience–he’ll be fine.

]]> By: Zack http://riveraveblues.com/2009/12/joba-phil-and-the-2010-bullpen-21432/#comment-724142 Zack Fri, 18 Dec 2009 14:54:09 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/?p=21432#comment-724142 Recent SPs who had bulldog mentalities that their team foolishly kept in the rotation: Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Josh Beckett, John Lackey, Roy Halladay, Justin Verlander, Matt Garza, AJ Burnett, John Smoltz, and more and more and more and more.... Recent SPs who had bulldog mentalities that their team foolishly kept in the rotation:
Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Josh Beckett, John Lackey, Roy Halladay, Justin Verlander, Matt Garza, AJ Burnett, John Smoltz, and more and more and more and more….

]]>