Open Thread: Neyer’s top 100 players of the decade
ByWith only 17 full days left in the decade, there’s all sorts of “the best of the decade” lists coming out. The best movies, the best albums, all sorts of stuff. So naturally, Rob Neyer put together a list of the 100 best baseball players of the decade, and as you can imagine, the Yankees are well-represented. Let’s round it up:
- Alex Rodriguez ranked as the second best player in the decade, behind only Albert Pujols.
- Derek Jeter wasn’t far behind him, coming in at number four. Barry Bonds was between the two.
- Jorge Posada comes in at number 15, sandwiched between Vlad Guerrero and Bobby Abreu. He was the top ranked catcher on the list.
- The Almighty Mariano Rivera checks in at number 24, the highest ranked reliever.
- CC Sabathia was right behind him at number 25, and Johnny Damon not far off at number 32.
- Mark Teixeira was named the 43rd best player of the decade despite not making his debut until 2003.
- Good ol’ Andy Pettitte comes in right at the halfway mark, number 50.
- Former Yanks: Abreu (16), Randy Johnson (18), Jason Giambi (19), Javy Vazquez (29), Gary Sheffield (34), Mike Mussina (35), Pudge Rodriguez (41), Roger Clemens (42).
That’s seven players on the Yanks 40-man roster that rank among the 50 best players of the last ten years. Including former players, 17 members of the decade’s 50 best players have worn pinstripes in that time. Dayum. Without doing the math, I’m going to guess no other team approaches that number.
Anyway, here’s your open thread for the night. The MNF game features the Cardinals in San Francisco, plus the Rangers and Isles are in action in separate games. There’s been a ton of hot stove action throughout the day, so talk about it here. Just make sure you follow the guidelines and be cool.
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Want a move that will really blow everyone out of the water? Sign Matt Holliday.
-Hallladay is off the board for the coming years due to the extension he will likely sign.
-Now they don’t have to trade catching prospects (Monetero) for Doc, so the run at Mauer next year becomes less likely, even though he is likely staying in the Twin Cities.
-Matsui is close to signing with the Angels.
-Damon is WAY off in negotiations.
-The Red Sox likely won’t make a run at Holliday due to the committment to Lackey, and their interest in extending Beckett.
-Holliday has said since the start of the offseason his number one choice would be NY.
-Completely fixes the Outfield issue for years to come.
No one except the Cardinals has made a serious offer at Holliday. Will 4 years at 75 million do the trick?
No one except the Cardinals has made a serious offer at Holliday. Will 4 years at 75 million do the trick?
No, not at all.
How do you know that based on the market he currently has? He virtually has NO suiters other than St. Louis.
your too low on the years, Jason bay, a year older and inferior overall player, is asking for 6 years. 6 would probably be the abosalute minimum to sign Holliday.
Also, my main worry on both Bay and Holliday is that their comparable players holds a whole lot of great hitters that flame out by or before their mid 30s. it just seems that historically speaking corner OFers that hits great (but not out of this world great, like Barry Bonds or Gary Sheffield.) tend to not age too gracefully (even when compared to 1B/DH). from a physical stand point obviously Bay is even more worrisome than Holliday, but the general logic still holds .
The Yankees have generally been pretty lucky with these long term deals (or older players in general), generally because they target truly elite talent guys . but corner sluggers tend to be the types where it is difficult to really distinguish the greats from the very good. somehow I can’t shake off the feeling that Matt Holliday is the later.
Now with Cammy going to Boston most likely perhaps we could lowball Holliday. I’m down with this.
I don’t think we can “lowball” Holliday.
I do think we could land Holliday, though, because all the teams who would trump our offer no longer will. Holliday’s price didn’t really go down, it’s now merely guaranteed to not go up. Subtle difference.
But Matt wants to come to NY! His agent told me! Wears pinstriped pajamas to bed! He had a poster of Dannilo Mora Tartabull on his wall!
Well so much for that… Holliday has a 8 year deal for 128 million from the Cards on the table.
Neyer’s Top 100 Players of the ten years ranging from 2000 through 2009!
I honestly think its complete and utter bull that he put Pujols, a 1B, over A-Rod, a SS/3B. That kind of bothers me. ITS ONLY THE MOST IMPORTANT TOP 100 PLAYERS LIST IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE!
Well, he said if A-Rod stayed a SS, he’d be #1. Also, Pujols offensive numbers>A-Rod
The gap in performance between A-Rod and all other SS/3B of the past decade > the gap in performance between Pujols and all other 1B of the past decade
Neyer’s wrong!
Agreed. A-Rod in AL entire Career, Pujols in NL entire Career.
I’d have A-Rod #1. #2 is blank because no one comes close than Pujols, Jeter, Bonds.
Not saying I disagree with you but I was just providing some evidence
Only 2 players have 2000 K’s in the 2000′s. Randy Johnson and…Javy Vazquez.
I’ve said it all along, Javy Vazquez is one of the most undervalued pitchers.
Him, Derek Lowe, and Livan Hernandez – what do they all have in common?
They all currently pitch in the NL East?
Yea, agreed on Javy
All I want for X-Mas is a DH! That’s why I’m hoping we outbid the Angels for Godzilla. A DH is all this team is lacking right now, maybe a bullpen arm as well.
Cammy to the Sox is a bummer, not because Boston got him and we didn’t, but because now I have to root against him. If it is finalized of course.
Are there any more attractable free agents than Damon for DH?
Delgado, Johnson, Garko, Miggy, Cust, Vlad, Thome, Gomes, Molina.
They aren’t more attractive than Damon but those are our options out of the FA pool.
Carlos Delgado clap clap clap clap clap.
Personally I’d like Cust or Thome for cheap against righties. Can’t go wrong with Carlos though.
As A.D. suggested, is Bay an option? My guess is that he’ll command too big a deal. But still, I wouldn’t e too disappointed in that.
I still want Damon though.
Bay for three years would be fine but the Mets are offering him FIVE. To that I say “F THAT S!!!!”
I’d rather the Yankees go for Damon + DH. Or Matty H.
I still want no part of Matty H or Bay.
I mean, I guess if you could get Matty H for 4 years – I’d be for it.
+28,29,30,31.
All I really want is a 1 or 2 yr DH.
Holliday for 5 years would be more than acceptable if the price is right.
I guess. But I have no problem just picking up a DH and giving Melky LF.
If he doesn’t do well, you pick up a bat mid-season.
Johnny Damon, paging you to rotate between DH and LF for a 1 year deal.
If that fifth year is at what I’d consider acceptable over 4 years, plus a few mil…yeah, maybe. Like, if he’d take 5/72 instead of 4/68. But why would he do that?
I’m wondering if Cash is looking out there and seeing that there just aren’t these huge deals out there for anyone, and these numbers are going to start coming down in a month.
You’d get outbid by the Cardinals.
5/85 *might* do it. Probably would take 5/90.
http://twitter.com/TylerKepner/status/6677353527
Kepner confirms the Matsui signing, and in a later tweet he says Yanks home opener is vs Angels so Matsui will be there which is awesome because the guy deserves the great reception that he will get.
I was ready to see him go and believe Cash made the right move here, but I loved Matsui as a Yankee and it will be very tough to see him in another uniform. Toughest one since Andy went to Houston.
Oh boy Matsui to the Angels and Cameron to the Sox. Now this day is starting to suck.
Cameron’s not on the Sox yet.
So hopefully Cashman can use his ninjutsu skills again?
Hopefully.
To be honest, I’m not really that concerned by what the Sox are doing. Cameron is good. Whatevs. They’ve improved the pitching staff and defense a bit (although since Beckett is highly overrated it’s not as good as it seems). Offense stays more or less the same, or even downgrades with a Cameron signing. Not good for the Sox, their offense can really be an issue this year with a lot of older players on that team.
I more or less agree. I’m not *concerned* per se. I do think the Red Sox have upgraded their team in the short term (I.E. 2010), but long term … still many many ?s.
Yes, they’ve upgraded. Certainly. But their offense could very well be rather mediocre.
Cameron is a drop in offensive production from Bay but a big leap in defense. But not enough to even it out, it a net loss for sure.
They have a NASTY rotation. Nasty. But I just can’t see myself worrying to much about them. Come October baseball, I might be worried more about Seattle and the crazy 1-2 punch of Felix/Lee.
Good thing we’re the MFY. Confidence level remains at 10, in this and all other universes.
It’s a very good rotation. But Beckett’s injured all the time and is overrated anyway. I could see it disappointing a bit.
They can really have serious offensive problems. I still pick the Yanks. Our pitching staff is good enough that with our offense we’ll still be the shit.
If just one of Joba or Hughes comes into his own, then our starting rotation is as good as anyone’s. If both two, holy schnikes.
And same thing could be said for Cano. He takes one more leap and he’s a bonafide superstar.
With Cameron in the fold does this mean the Sox are ready to flip Bucholtz and Ellsbury to the Padres for Adrian Gonzalez?
Scratch that…Lackey is a big improvement in the pitching staff, to be fair (although he’s certainly not the Red Sox answer to Sabathia like SNY said).
Still have the offensive problems.
Anyone who would equate Lackey to Sabathia should have their communication rights taken away.
You really think Mike Cameron is going to swing anything?
Thats a huge drop off offensively from Bay out in LF.
Hey Lanny did you ever know that there was this thing called defense? Well this magical new playstyle is something that Cameron is very good at while giving you 20+ homers.
Or do you think everyone just sucks as usual?
Being a terrific defender and playing LF at Fenway is like being a really tall donkey basketball player — it doesn’t much matter. I have to assume that Cameron is not going to be playing LF for the Soxxx and another deal is in the works for those fools.
Lanny, do we have to go over this every thread?
I mean, all you do is say he sucks. Everyone else provides actual info on why he is a very productive player.
Ugh.
Lanny, do we have to go over this every thread?
The answer to that is going to be yes.
I think Lany is doing the same thing as alex gonzalez was, he just absolutely refuses to admit it.
I miss alex gonzalez.
No, alex gonzalez showed more humor and clever wordplay, even in subterfuge and chicanery, from the start.
Robert Grant doesn’t have that ability. He’s dead serious.
Look what you did now, Eric!
OH SHIT YOU CALLED ME BY MY FIRST NAME I’M SO ASHAMED NOW
Could be worse, you could be a Mets fan. You had your heart set this off season on either Halladay or Lackey, and both went off the board within 2 hours of each other. Now you’re looking at a rotation rounded out by Jason Marquis and Oliver Perez.
Where’s Mariano Rivera???
Reading Rainbow.
Absolving Neyer of his sins, no doubt. His Baseball wisdom is infinite.
Right about where he should be.
I can’t remember a 24-hour period in which the stove burned SO hot. Hell, even the trading deadline doesn’t see this much diggity.
You aint seen nothin yet. Once they start falling, they usually come in waves. One moves sparks another.
Matusi reached an agreement with Angels
I wanted him over Damon
Me too. This saddens me.
It will be tough watching Matusi in a different uniform. I’ll still root for the guy even though he’s on a team I detest very much.
We salute you, Mr. Matsui-san.
Actually it would be just Matsui-san since san is the equivalent of Mr.
/nitpick
+1
If its any consolation, it appears the Angels won’t be nearly as good next year as they were this year. They’re looking at replacing Lackey with Derek Lowe. Ouch.
Calling it now, Seattle wins that divison, Texas is the wild card, Sox and Angels miss playoffs.
Nooooo the Sox got better today, and Cammy’s a good move for them. Bay was very streaky last year and is bad defensively. They have a terrific rotation, maybe the deepest in Baseball.
Cammy’s good, probably a net wash.
The rotation is good, but Beckett’s hurt all the time and overrated anyway. I could see that rotation disappointing a bit.
They’re getting older. I really think their offense will be a significant problem for them.
Yankees win the East. Red Sox rotation is good, but Felix Hernandez AND Lee? Just sick.
That’s wishful thinking. They’re a good team that just got significantly better.
I know they’re a good team. I think the AL is very good this year. I think they win over 90 games and miss the playoffs.
[I know it's a pipe dream. They're still not beating out the Yanks for the division.]
I really waanted Matsui back. His clutch hitting is great. I am not happy if he finalizes a deal with LA, I mean Anaheim, no CA . . . oh forget it.
Matsui signed. Cashman you piece of shit!
What the hell is this guy waiting for??
Pitching and LF were his priorities…but he had time to make the Granderson deal…he couldn’t top the Angels offer for Matsui?!?!?
Idiot.
Calm down Sally.
In Cashman I Trust
…All others pay Cash.
http://www.instantrimshot.com/
http://www.nomaas.org/images/cashwetrust.jpg
Jump… Jump!
/Kris Kross’d
(golf clap)
Does Matsui either pitch or play LF? No?
And then there’s “he had time to make the Granderson deal”…do you think he told LFer’s agents to stop calling him for two weeks at the winter meetings and is just waiting for that timeout to expire?
The man’s not an idiot. He knows there are many DH options out there, and so Matsui really isn’t that important. He knows that there are still several LF options out there, such that giving Cameron a 2-year deal is not better than other things that may yet appear.
A large part of the value of Cameron, in my mind, was that you weren’t committed to him beyond one season. Giving him a 2 year deal kind of negates that.
How dare that idiot almost singlehandedly take an 89 win team and turn it into a 103 win team that won the World Series!
Not signing Matsui negates all that, the moron.
Let her vent, its very understandable.
A) There’s a difference between “venting” (i.e. “that sucks, I wanted Matsui back”) and “being an idiot” (i.e. “Cashman you piece of shit! What the hell is this guy waiting for?“)
B) Rose is not a “her”.
It’s Buckethead!
Wait! Matsui’s agent wouldn’t tell them anything! It’s not guaranteed!!! PLEASE TELL ME THERE’S A CHANCE TO BRING HIM BACK!!!
Paid for by the:
Matsui for 2010 Campaign
Rose:
Calm down.
Honestly, who is going to sign Jason Bay now?
Seattle Re-Ignites?
Yankes for DH?
Mets?
Yea he shouldve taken the Sox 4/60 offer. I’d say the Mets are most likely, especially since Lackey is gone.
Bay in LF at Citi? Holy Mo would that be a sight.
You think the Mets have to be the favorites for Bay now, just to calm the fan base down, it was like suicide prevention on FAN today.
No more Homer-deki.
I can has Nick Johnson?
or
I can has Johnny Damon + Mike Cameron?
or
I can has WORDUPTHOME?
HIDEKI!!!!
UPPER DECK-EEE!!!!!!!
*sniffs*
The worst news of the day: A-Rod and Kate may have split up. Oh noes!!!! How will he ever hit in the postseason gone. She was the MVP (P does not stand for player…)
OMG NO!!!!!!!!
Fuckin iPod. *Now not gone
My desire to see “Nine” has diminished greatly. Go in peace, Ms. Hudson. Thanks for the memories.
Maybe A-Rod is learning from this Tiger thing:
“Hmm…If I marry this woman…will I cheat on her? Survey says…Yes. Yeah, better not risk it. That Jetes is on to something with this whole ‘bachelor’ thing.”
John Lackey haters, this will be much appreciated:
Hahaha. I’ve seen that before.
That dude Fitzy I have seen at the NFL Draft before too.
I’m bored.
I hate this state sometimes. I miss New York.
Try being in my state.
What games you got for PS3 man, we gotta get connected!
Oh yeah!
I’ve got The Show ’09 and MW2, that’s it. I got Madden ’10, but it’s an X-Mas gift.
Denial?
Confusion?
There are bigger issues, namely A-Rod & Kate Hudson may have broken up!!!!! Oh nooos.
FakeJSterling:
How did the small market Red Sox find the money to afford John Lackey #IsntItAmazing
Fake Sterling knows whats up
There go the Redsox ruining baseball with their money:
Marco Scutaro 12 mil
John Lackey 82.5 mil plus
Mike Cameron 15 mil
Sign Holliday to play LF, sign one of Sheets/Garland/Duscherer, bring Delgado in on a 1 yr deal to DH. Could you imagine how many HRs he will hit with the short porch?
Jeter
Granderson
Tex
Arod
Delgado
Holliday
Posada
Cano
Swisher
Thats one mean line up…
Ignoring how expensive that team would be, you’d put Delgado in the 5 hole over Holliday?
The world might end if someone breaks the almighty R-L-R-L-R-L… lineup construction.
Fuck that shit, I want my 3rd best masher in the 5-hole!
Though actually, you wanna be really crazy, you’d think about putting Matty H in the two-hole. He’d get more ABs. You’d have him and Teixeira batting in the first inning of every game. He’s got the baserunning and OBP ability, and obviously the power.
Pretty sure that from a SABR standpoint, the 2-hole is more important than the 5-hole.
Fuck that shit, I want my 3rd best masher in the 5-hole!
… nah, too easy.
Only two of those things (more likely one) can happen.
1.) Hell no to Garland. I good with the others
2.) I’m down with Delgado at DH
3.) If Holliday takes a 3 yr deal cool and since he won’t no thanks
Four years wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. I’d prefer three, but that’s not going to happen unless his market 1000% collapses.
From a Phillies blogger’s Twitter:
@Phrontiersman: AP relays report that Blanton, Happ and Dom Brown all took physicals today. This move may yet be bigger than we think.
Interesting
If Philly’s are giving up all those prospects to swap Lee with a guy who’s better, but not by TOO much, it could end up being a terrible deal.
That was cleared up on MLBTR. Apparently the Phils were trying to do a 2 team trade earlier in the day, and were looking to move Blanton/Happ to get pieces and dump salary in Blanton’s case. That fell through, so they got Seattle involved.
If the Sox sign Cammy and also Beltre, they would have one of the best defenses in the game, if not the best. Pedroia, Youk, Beltre, Cammy, Scutaro, and Drew = Great D.
Holliday’s D is pretty good too so now I’m on board for signing him if the Yanks can get him for 4 years somehow.
4 years is just not possible if Bay got a 5 year offer already, but I don’t see why a 5th year for Matty H would be so bad if the price is right.
I’m guessing Ellsbury would move to LF because Cameron in LF would be an absolute waste.
Yeah, Theo seems to be going with pitching and defense for a change. Not sure how well that will go over in Boston, but it may be his best move this off season.
Credit where credit’s due, terrific move by Theo signing Lackey. N-O-B-O-D-Y heard a peep that he was going there, and Theo struck quickly and made a quick deal. If the Yanks caught wind of it, you know they would have drove up the $$$.
The price IS pretty high. For all we know the Yanks could have driven it up.
So when do the Yankees announce the Holliday signing? I thought one of the perks of being a Yankee fan was not having to watch everyone else sign big name FA’s and trade for aces….
I’m thinking Holliday signs a 4/74 with the Yanks by Friday.
Ok fine 5/80
I wouldn’t count on it.
I thought one of the perks of being a Yankee fan was not having to watch everyone else sign big name FA’s and trade for aces….
No, this is one of the perks of being a Yankee fan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related (SFW)
So what’s the deal with the Halladay trade?
Lee ends up Seattle
Halladay to Philly
Jays get D’Arnaud, Morrow, & what else?
At first glace it looks like the Jays predictably took the worst of it.
Glad to trade Doc out of the league & welcome Lee back in.
They say Blanton took a physical.
He must be part of the deal.
Yuck for the Jays.
http://twitter.com/drunkjaysfans/status/6679782729
This too/
No, see my above response or check MLBTR.
I got the initial info from MLBTR.
Dominic Brown seems to be interchangeable with Mike Taylor according the them. Also no final word on who exactly the M’s included, and a mystery Phils prospect.
Just wondering if any of you guys had any additional info.
Right, but did you see the 6:18 update about Jason Stark?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....day-1.html
Aha. Thanks
I really hope the Sox put Cameron in LF and leave Tacoby in center.
Although let’s be honest, we’ve all seen their respective UZR’s on fangraphs, it would be a crime to leave Ellsbury in center and put Cameron in Left.
Mhm…. I’d be willing to bet Jacoby improves his defense out there. He seems to have the ability to play a better CF, so he could improve.
Cameron in Fenway is troublesome. He’s a monster when he pulls the ball – .492/.492/.977/1.469 ops (last year).
He’s a classic Fenway Park hitter. Dead pull righty hitter with power who should play ping pong with the Monster all day long. Watch his SLG go up 20-30 points, easy.
You think that would about even his value with Bay?
No, Bays a better hitter but Cammy’s the better fielder. I’ll have to look it up, but adding Lackey&Cammy and subtracting Bay is a net+ for them. Rotation looks terrific.
I’ll have to look it up, but adding Lackey&Cammy and subtracting Bay is a net+ for them.
Lackey doesn’t even need to factor into it. Subtracting Bay and adding Cameron ALONE is a net + for them.
Really? I didn’t think so.
I think it would be abouteven.
2007:
Jason Bay, 0.0 WAR; Mike Cameron, +2.2 WAR
2008:
Jason Bay, +2.9 WAR; Mike Cameron, +4.1 WAR
2009:
Jason Bay, +3.5 WAR; Mike Cameron, +4.3 WAR
And remember, adding Cameron upgrades the defense at TWO spots, not just one.
Yeah, definitely worth more than I would have thought.
It’s a good move, I’m not saying it isn’t. But the Sox still have to be worried about the age of their team’s offense. Remember, Cammy’s old too.
OK, I looked it up. Bay’s a 3.5 win player and Cammy’s a 4.3 win player. So it’s a bigger upgrade than I thought.
Ouch.
Okay, fairly big upgrade. Defense improves a lot.
They still got offensive issues.
And I love Cammy, but he’s got gaping holes in his swing.
True.
My retort: So does Jason Bay.
Yeah, but Cammy is worse offensively than Bay.
And Bay is worse defensively than Cammy.
We can keep going around in these circles all night. The fact remains, Mike Cameron in totality, even with all the K’s and the low batting average, has been more productive than Jason Bay over the past three years, and that’s a good bet to continue in 2010.
I know, I agree, that’s not what me or
Nostra-Artist is saying. It’s an improvement, but I think the offense still has a lot of holes in it, that’s all.
I’d surmise whatever offense you lose in Bay you probably make up for with Cameron in CF and Tacobellsbury in LF.
Fun fact: Mike Cameron has put up a better WAR than Jason Bay three straight years.
Yeah, just looked it up. Surprising, because Bay is generally thought of more highly and will definitely get a much bigger deal, even on aav.
Homers and RBI will do that for ya.
Nah, Bay still has more pop. But when you factor in defense, and the inherent value of a short-term deal… Cameron would be a smart pick-up for the Sox (or any team for that matter).
I am elated that Mr. 150 Strikeouts is going to Boston. Cameron in left will not exactly remind people of Williams, Yaz, Rice, Manny or even Bay. This team has third place written all over it (Closer to Baltimore and Toronto in the Standings than the Yankees).
Cameron in left will not exactly remind people of Williams, Yaz, Rice, Manny or even Bay.
Ted Williams, Carl Yastrzemski, Jim Rice, and Manny Ramirez: utterly irrelevant to this conversation
Mike Cameron: Better than Jason Bay
He’ll be in center, though, chasing down all the balls that Ellsbury used to let drop, hitting homers and taking enough walks that the only people who still whine about his strikeouts are fans who’d rather be right than win.
He’ll play great defense, take advantage of the monster with his great gap power and rack up doubles like they’re going out of style, work walks and get on base. The strikeouts will be more than tolerable.
Of course, he’s black, so Boston will hate him and only focus on the K’s.
Be fair. Big Papi is one of the most beloved players in Boston history.
… for now.
Also, David Ortiz: not black
Correction: Not African. The color of his skin is black.
Afro-Dominicans: not black
Black is the skin color. Latino or Hispanic is the race. Dominican is the nationality.
Ask some Dominicans if they consider themselves “black”.
Go ahead, I’ll wait.
David Ortiz is of a far darker complexion than I am. I’m basically Derek Jeter’s complexion.
I’m black, David Ortiz is not.
Black: not merely a skin color; way more complex than that.
It’s not a skin color, it’s a lifestyle.
/Stewie Griffin’d
Just like we all knew Mike Lowell would have a resurgence in that sardine can.
Bingo.
Boras must be scrambling every where just to find suitors for holliday it looks like theirs not much he must be blowing up cashmans cell as i write this.
Matt Holliday is a Scott Boras client. There’s no way he’s taking a 4 year deal. The Cardinals will offer him some form of a 5 year deal, if not anybody else. If you aren’t comfortable with Holliday being signed for 5 years than you aren’t comfortable with Holliday being signed, period.
Signing a position player for 5 years is much much safer than a pitcher. For the right price, I’d be thrilled to get Holliday. I hope the market for him continues to shrink, I wish the Cardinals were in on Bay though. If Holliday were to come at 5/90, I’d be all aboard.
/high five
I’m right with ya. 5/90 seems about right. But the Yankees would indeed have to be willing to keep their payroll in the $210M-ish range for the next 5 years then. If they’re cool with that, Holliday is a solid investment.
Think he’d go for 4/76?
Doubt it. I see Evil Empire’s scenario as more likely.
Not anytime soon, but if the market doesn’t develop and that’s out there in mid-January maybe he would. I’d love to see it.
That would be one of the biggest overplaying of one’s hands in the history of contracts.
Bay looks like he’ll get his 5 years from the Mets if not anybody else, I’d think it would be unbelievable for Matt H to get less years, even at a higher AAV, than Jason Bay.
The Cardinals will offer him a 5 year contract. As long as his demands don’t match Albert’s current deal in total dollars (duh) or AAV, they’ll be the main contenders players.
I hope so. But if not nab him for 5/80something because he’d be a solid guy to bat behind our 300M investment. Someone has to play LF and someone has to hit 5th while Posada declines and Matsui goes to Cali with Jackie Chan.
Why not have that someone be Matt Holliday? Who are we saving our bucks for?
Probably not. You might get him if you push it over $20M AAV, but I can’t see a shorter deal working for less than that.
Drabek involved in the trade????
via MLBTR
Yeah, but that’s just one report. There were multiple reports saying Brown was the one in the deal.
If Drabek’s in the deal, it makes even less sense to me. Could be a net-minus at that point.
Maybe they are getting other players too. Sounds like theres much more to this thing.
Yeah, and it’s almost getting annoying. Can we just get the fucking details already? I’ve heard 5 versions of this deal today.
If the Jays got Triunfel, Brown and Aumont, I think that’s about as good as they could do. Not a bad haul for GM Alex.
Even better if it’s Drabeck over Aumont.
Seconded.
Would it really be that bad to just put Melky in left? Essentially, it is the same lineup except you are replacing Damon with Granderson. Of course, this depends on the DH situation.
In theory, you’re correct. But, there are still too many good choices out there to simply hand LF over to an average player like Melky.
IMO, the only way Melky starts the season in LF, is if Cashman spends significant cash on the pitching staff and gets a very legit DH. I’d be amenable to that scenario.
Melky in LF is acceptable if there’s an actual DH.
That.
I guess no more inadvertent A-Bombs from Matsui, huh? Should make Sterling’s life a little easier.
I don’t think I understand the moves today.
Lackey to Boston does not seem like a typical Boston move. He’s 32, and doesn’t have “great” stuff. He has begun to show slight decline in his numbers (though it has been slight) from his high in 2005. A 32 year old pitcher signed for 5 years? It’s an AJ Burnett contract, and I remember how thrilled some people were when Burnett signed that.
Two theories: Boston has moved for pitching and defense and hoping for league average offense from a fairly solid lineup, or Boston is trading Beckett/Buchholz or simply wants to drop Wakefield from the rotation. Beckett is a free agent and will command a lot of money, so maybe Lackey is a safety net? Dump Wakefield to the bullpen this year with Lester, Beckett, Dice-K, Lackey, Buchholz?
The Halladay-Lee trade seems strange as well. Halladay is a better pitcher, but wasn’t the idea to have a dominant 1-2 punch of Halladay-Lee? Halladay is older and costs more, but I guess Halladay was more open for an extension. Guess we have to see what was given up.
I agree on all your points.
RE: Lackey
That is definitely a risky move for them – in terms of risk… it’s right up there with the Drew and Dice K signings. It does make sense to spend your money on pitching and defense with the assumption that the home ballpark will offset any offensive deficiencies. But I do recall Theo speaking after the season about how they wanted to be better on the road next year.
This has been a very interesting offseason so far.
Yeah, the Halladay deal really has me scratching my head. It says on MLBTR that Lee wanted a “Sabathia-type contract” extension, but I don’t believe that for one second. I think it’s just damage control for dealing him away after he was so good this past postseason.
The Phils just gave up a significant package last year to get Lee, now they gave up another significant package to get his replacement. Plus, Halladay will get 60-70 mil on an extension. Sounds ridiculously expensive to me.
Lackey isn’t a great move for the Sox because of the years and likely reducing some future moves for better players, but it does give them top to bottom, the best rotation in the majors right now. Really, it looks great on paper. I don’t know if it will perform to that, but if it does, they mitigated some of the damage their offense/defense has. They’re definitely a serious playoff contender with that rotation alone.
I don’t think they’ll have the salary to keep Lackey and Beckett moving forward. Joshie is out after this year, I suspect, with Lackey taking his place in the rotation. They’ll be hoping Bucholz pans out; that could be huge for them keeping a nasty, relatively cost-free rotation while still upgrading their lineup in 2011.
I think a key point in the Halladay-Lee swap is that Halladay can throw three games in a playoff series. That itself is a big upgrade.
I think a key point in the Halladay-Lee swap is that Halladay can throw three games in a playoff series. That itself is a big upgrade.
I, too, mentioned this earlier… I think it is worth re-emphasizing.
I also don’t think Beckett re-ups with the Sox. They got his peak years for a great price (well, in terms of dollars anyway). If Buchholz turns the corner, then they’re set for the next few years.
Yeah, you did write that; sorry I didn’t credit you. Not having the new comment indicator really makes it hard to find and there have been about 800 comments through three threads discussing this trade.
Cliff Lee could absolutely throw three games in a playoff series, Charlie Manuel is just too stupid to let him do it. Let’s not turn the manager’s idiocy into player inadequacy.
I see your point; the fact is Halladay has experience doing it while Lee does not, and for a team that’s virtual playoff lock, they may just desire that to put them over the top.
I should have been more clear: he may very well be able to throw on three days a few starts in a row, but Halladay is a MUCH safer bet to do it and do it effectively. They thought they could extend him, he’s an upgrade over Lee and he’s a workhorse with a better overall track record.
I don’t like the move, but I understand it.
Of course he could, but I suspect there aren’t too many managers who would’ve pitched him 3 times.
I think Lackey is a good signing but a bad contract, much like AJ. The Sox can afford another bad contract, they might as well get a good player.
Well apparently according to ESPN, Sox made an offer for Chapman for 15 M. They’ve been busy today.
The Chapman offer was made a while back when he was repped by his old agent. ESPN decided to splash that today like it was fresh news for whatever reason.
Chapman’s big workout is tomorrow.
Just gotta say, I’d like to thank my parents for raising me a yankee fan, listening to the fan today was absolutely hysterical. Mets fans were ready to kill someone. Gonna be a lot of empty seats at citi next season if they dont do something drastic
Mets fans were just being idiots. Contrary to popular belief, the offseason is not over. Be fucking patient for a change.
My favorite caller was the guy who blamed himself.
“It’s not their fault, it’s my fault. For getting sucked in and having my heart broken year after year. ”
Yikes. What an advertisement.
That was beautiful.
at first i sat there laughing my ass off, then the more i listened, the more i realized that these people have legitimate psychotic issues
Hey! Don’t be dissing us . . I mean THOSE callers!
nicely done
at first i sat there laughing my ass off, then the more i listened, the more i realized that these people have legitimate psychotic issues
It’s unfair racist stereotyping on my part, but after listening to sportstalk radio, I’m literally TERRIFIED of all Italians from Staten Island. Levels of incompetence combined with rage like that shouldn’t be allowed to walk the city streets where weapons are readily available on the black market.
Watch Jersey Shore. Oh yeah, oh no!
I’m so ticked we didn’t sign Cameron. He was ABSOLUTELY the right solution to our problems in left. I can’t believe he went to the Sox. Really, really dumb. How you going to ignore his defense Cash? His WAR? I can’t believe we just let him go like that. UGH.
He ain’t signed yet.
So you’re saying there’s a chance…..
Remember Texeira?
Fun fact: Cashman was the originator of the saying, “It’s always darkest before dawn.”
He’s not on the Sox yet as far as I know. This is all speculation.
His WAR would drop fairly significantly if he’s moved to LF. He received positional bonuses as a centerfielder in his WAR score, which would be lost if he goes to left.
Solution: Don’t move him to left.
But why would Boston want Cameron? He isn’t gritty or a gamer. If anything he is athletic.
The city of Boston’s ten year deal with the Devil has expired, and now they’re desperate.
I sort of touched on this with my morning TYU piece, but as I got into the Sheets/Duchscherer stuff I found it begging another question. Here it is-
You’re Brian Cashman. You have 10 mil left to spend this off season on one more big move, and a few mil after that to fill out the bench. You can have either Johnny Damon or Ben Sheets for the same price for the 2010 season. Which one you go for?
Damon. A DH you need, a rotation you have.
I go for Damon. The rotation is pretty much set and there’s a decent amount of depth for starters even with IPK going. If a couple guys from the minors pans out like Melancon then hopefully Aceves can now be a spot starter to go along side Guadin. Also hopefully Nova is close to the majors putting up decent numbers.
OK, but signing Sheets allows you to move either Hughes/Joba to the bullpen, upgrading you in both the rotation and bullpen. Damon doesn’t give you that.
He’s an awful defender who figures to get worse, so what he gives you with his bat should be subtracted from what Melky/Gardner would give you defensively, lessening his value a bit. He’ll DH some, but Jorge will DH a lot next year as well. Johnny won’t be a full time DH, far from it. Maybe 60-80 games there.
All totaled, I go with Sheets. I think we’ll suppress more runs with Sheets than we’ll score with Johnny (over their replacements).
OK, but signing Sheets allows you to move either Hughes/Joba to the bullpen, upgrading you in both the rotation and bullpen. Damon doesn’t give you that.
I don’t need that as much as I need another bat.
Yeah I’ve been thinking along the same lines, I kinda touched on this issue below. It’s obviously a hypothetical, since I’m sure Cashman can spend a little more than $10M before addressing the bench… But, damn, is Ben Sheets attractive, whether it means no more big bats or not. Then again, the offense is already really good, but obviously depth would be very well-served, especially on a team with a few of its main pieces getting up there in age, by signing another bat. I really don’t know where I come down on this one, but, today at least, I’m leaning towards Sheets.
Then again, Sheets hasn’t pitched in a year, so we have to remember he’s still a risky play (if he comes at the expense of another useful, and less questionable, part).
Yup. Still confused.
Yeah, Johnny’s more of a sure thing. That’s the best argument for him. But I’m leaning toward Sheets as well. He upgrades you in the Rotation (and bullpen) and I think we’ll score plenty of runs with what we have. We led all of Baseball in Runs Scored last year, taking a tiny step back there and a step forward in run suppression should work out OK.
I think the next step in the conversation is to look at the affordable DH options out there. I know it doesn’t fit your hypothetical… But if you’re not committing big money to another player (like Damon), I guess there’s a chance you could go get a Sheets and a DH like Delgado, right? I don’t like venturing in to that territory because I think we, as fans, get a bit carried away with thinking these guys are going to sign for less money than they actually will… But I’m not so sure you couldn’t get Sheets plus a DH-type bat for not much more than a couple million more than Damon would cost (and Damon seems like he’ll require at least 2 years, to boot). I think that’s probably my ideal solution, at this point, knowing what we know.
Yeah, I’m not sure if Nick Johnson would sign for 4-5 mil, but if he would the Sheets option looks even better.
Agreed. We’ll see… My feeling is that the longer we get into the postseason, the more likely we are to get some sort of bargain somewhere. I mean, this year, we’re the ones waiting for a cheap Abreu to fall into our laps. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Yanks make a relatively minor move or two and then sit around and wait for the cheap option to reveal itself before pouncing on it. It’ll be tough to wait for that type of situation to develop and I’m sure plenty of people will be freaking out while the process is ongoing, but that might be the optimal course of action at this point, given how the pieces are falling this offseason.
If
A) I can only add one more player and
B) that player will be either Damon or Sheets
as much as it pains me (because I like the other guy’s upside way more), I choose Damon. He fills a greater need than Sheets does. If we don’t add Sheets, we still have an opening day rotation of CC-AJ-Andy-Joba-Phil. If we don’t add Damon, we have an opening day lineup that includes both Melky AND either Gardner (in the OF) or Miranda (at DH). One Gardbreranda* is acceptable, two is not.
Our need for one more bat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our need for one more arm
————
* “Gardbreranda” © tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada, 2009. All rights reserved
Haha. Love the copyright.
Per MLBTR, here are the potential free agents next year in the outfield:
Left fielders
Eric Byrnes (35)
Carl Crawford (29)
David DeJesus (31) – $6MM club option with a $500K buyout
Adam Dunn (31)
Willie Harris (33)
Jason Kubel (29) – $5.25MM club option with a $350K buyout
Jason Michaels (35)
Manny Ramirez (39)
Center fielders
Alfredo Amezaga (33)
Willie Bloomquist (33)
Jody Gerut (33)
Willie Harris (33)
Andruw Jones (34)
Mark Kotsay (35)
Jason Michaels (35)
Corey Patterson (31)
Willy Taveras (29)
Right fielders
Willie Bloomquist (33)
Jose Guillen (35)
Brad Hawpe (32) – $10MM club option with a $500K buyout
Gabe Kapler (35)
Magglio Ordonez (37) – $15MM club option vests with 135 starts or 540 plate appearances in 2010
Jayson Werth (32)
With A-Jax out of the system and no other high-profile outfield prospects on the near-term horizon, does that make Holliday more attractive to the Yankees? Obviously the trade market is a wrinkle that we can’t really predict/discuss much, so I’m just talking about free agents that the Yankees can buy, here.
On a 4 year contract, the Yanks would have Holliday for his age 30-33 seasons. On a 5 year contract, it would be ages 30-34. The back-end is a risk, obviously, but it’s not like the guy will be a senior citizen at the end of the contract.
In a sense this is kind of similar to the Teixeira situation last offseason… He’s going to cost a lot of money, but he’s probably the best free agent solution available to the Yankees in the next couple of seasons. Carl Crawford is good, but he’s not as good as Holliday. I assume Crawford will be looking for a 4 year deal next offseason – a deal that would expire the same year as a 5 year deal (for Holliday) signed this offseason.
The flip-side of all of this is that the Yankees lineup is already sick, without Matt Holliday, and Holliday’s going to cost a lot of dollars at a time when the Yanks already have a ton of guaranteed money on the books for the next few years (and will only be adding to those totals when they have to re-up with Jeter and Mo).
I think if you’re looking for the most effective left fielder option on the free agent market, Holliday’s your guy. The reason to not sign him isn’t that there’s a better option out there, it’s that you don’t want to lock yourself into another high-priced and relatively long-term contract. I’d like to see the Yankees spend whatever money they may have on Ben Sheets, maybe Chapman, and a cheaper LF or DH option. I’m not a big Melky fan, but there are worse fates than having Melky as the number 9 hitter in a lineup featuring the likes of Granderson, Jeter, Tex, A-Rod, Posada, Cano, etc.
/end rambling
PS: Totally just thinking out loud here, feel free to tell me I’m missing something huge or misrepresenting some aspect of this stuff.
I agree with all of this “rambling.” Holliday does look a lot more attractive now (IF Cameron is indeed signed by the Sawx).
You know, the thing is… I think Cameron is actually kind of irrelevant to what I’m saying. Cameron would be perfect as a stop-gap option, but at this point, who is the stop-gap for? Who are we keeping that position warm for? I think my point was actually that the case for Holliday is unaffected by the loss of guys like Cameron and Matsui from the market.
I guess the response would be that the stop-gap would be for an as-yet unknown option, either via trade or development or some other route. But without A-Jax in the system, the calculus changes a bit, no? I didn’t think A-Jax was any sort of sure-thing, but he certainly factored into the long-term plans.
Meh… I’ve said it all offseason this year… There aren’t any clear answers, in my opinion.
Keeping it warm for Crawford I thought.
Well color me very unconvinced that Crawford is either a lock to be available to the Yankees next year or the best option for the Yankees. We’ve discussed this before so I won’t rehash the entire conversation, but Crawford, when he becomes a free agent, will be going into his age 30 season, will be coveted by many teams, will likely require at least a Damon-like contract (the just expired contract, I mean), and is a player whose value seems to be very tied up in his speed.
Keeping the spot warm for Crawford wouldn’t be a bad thing, necessarily, but I’m not sure that it would make the Yankees a better team than just signing Holliday now.
True.
Now I want Holliday, all of a sudden.
Heh, I hear you. I think Holliday got a little less love around here than he’s gotten at some other Yankees blogs, and I haven’t necessarily disagreed… But the Holliday proponents definitely have some decent points in their corner. In the end, it comes down to money and flexibility weighed against the potential on-field benefit of having the best possible LF option. I still fall on the side of wanting the Yanks to find non-Holliday solutions.
Plus, how can we know he’ll actually become a FA? If the Rays fall out of it, he’ll likely get traded and the team that gets him may very well want to sign him to an extension to justify the cost in talent.
When dealing with small market FA’s, it’s very dangerous to assume they’ll hit the market. So many of them never do.
True, but supposedly that’s how the Yanks worked with Sabathia.
That’s one, and Johan Santana, Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay, Dan Haren are 4 who never did. Happens a lot is my point. Plus, Brewers are a mid-market team. Rays are small market.
To expand on Nostra-Artist’s point… Correct me if I’m wrong, but I also don’t remember CC being a trade candidate like those other guys when he was entering the last year of his contract. The Indians thought they would compete, so he wasn’t on the market like Johan and the rest of those guys were. And, the chances of a guy getting traded mid-season and signing an extension with the acquiring team (and not seeking free agency) are much lower than the chances of a guy signing an extension in the offseason.
So I don’t think CC is really the same kind of case as those other guys.
What I mean is Cash took a gamble assuming he’d be a FA, and it worked out.
Also, if the Red Sox signed Cameron to a one-year, there’s also a good chance they’re in on the CC(2) market next year.
Meh… I’ve said it all offseason this year… There aren’t any clear answers, in my opinion.
DAMN YOUS WITH YOUR WILLINGNESS TO ADMIT THAT ISSUES ARE COMPLEX AND CAN’T BE EASILY PORTRAYED AS RIGHT/WRONG OR BLACK/WHITE! DAMN YOUS TO HELL!!!
Disgraceful, I know.
/goes back to corner
BOTTOM LINE IS, IF CASHMAN LETS MATSUI GO TO THE ANGELS, HE’S A HOMO!!!
Sincerely,
Vinny from Staten Island
Days like this I’m glad I’m not Cashman. Very complicated market out there.
I agree as well.
Matsui and Cameron signing elsewhere removes two of our three primary “Let’s sign these good and cheap stopgap options so we don’t have to overcommit to Holliday” options. Damon is the only one left. There are other options behind him, but they’re far less appealing.
Conversely, though, Matsui, Cameron, Halladay, Lee, and Lackey all finding new homes (coupled with Bay inching closer to the Mets) has reduced some of Holliday’s suitors, making a bidding war for him less likely/protracted. It’s still going to take 5/100 at least, but there’s fewer teams in the mix, which means fewer teams willing to jump in with a larger counter offer.
I’m more willing to take on Holliday’s contract obligations now that the market has cooled a bit and our alternatives have thinned out.
Agreed.
Fuck, the world would just HATE the Yankees. It would be Texeira all over again. That would be so fucking awesome.
But this time, we didn’t want to do it. They drove us to do it.
We wanted to go lease a Camry, but they bought all the Camrys off the lot, thus reducing the price on the Lexus (by eliminating demand) and giving us the chance to buy the best model on the lot at a reasonable price.
In a weird way, that would be even MORE awesome.
I think you summed this up pretty effectively. I also agree with your final point that while Melky is not a great option at LF, due to our power up the middle, we still have the luxury of having a weak-hitting LF. Holliday would certainly be an upgrade. We could be really good offensively over the next few years, but the flip side of that is tying up payroll on what’s essentially an upgrade from a Corolla to an E-Class Mercedes.
The Corolla (Melky) works well enough, and if it allows you to continue to make your mortgage payments, save for retirement, invest properly, while taking nice vacations and having a good time, you pass on the Benz. In relation to the totality of the situation, the Corolla is a better value to your organization.
Melky will work just fine as long as there’s an added power bat to make up for it (the DH).
I’d be very willing to run out Melky in LF with Damon, Thome, Delgado, et. al. at DH, but at this point, I’m sweetening on Holliday a little more.
Exactly. I forgot to mention that. We’d need a DH to offset it. But we’ll get by. This offense would still be fierce if they replaced Damon and Matsui with Granderson and Thome/Delgado. And we’d have a lot more flexibility moving forward.
Yep.
But, at this point, Holliday does look a little more attractive.
Fuck it let’s dream: Holliday in LF, Damon at DH. Boom.
Meh, I dunno, Matt. To me, he’s only attractive on a four-year deal or less. And there’s a good chance that doesn’t happen. For a luxury upgrade at a corner, I dunno, it’s a hard pill to swallow.
I personally think that’ll be more reality than a dream.
I’d love that.
Fuck it let’s dream: Holliday in LF, Damon at DH. Boom.
Oh, hells naw.
If we add Holliday, our DH should be whomever is willing to accept a 1 year, sub 5M deal. Damon would be persona non grata if Holliday and his large AAV is imported.
You have a point there.
Delgado?
I’ve never been anti-Delgado.
commie
commie
FACT: Nancy Pelosi and I regularly engage in disgusting, amoral sex play games. Her safe-word is “conference committee”.
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-714408
Frank Reynolds: A woman in politics is like a donkey doing calculus.
Dee Reynolds: There are plenty of good women politicians.
Frank Reynolds: Name one.
Dee Reynolds: Um, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.
Frank Reynolds: Awful!
Dee Reynolds: How is she awful?
Frank Reynolds: Hates freedom.
MLBTR: 7:53pm: Mike Cameron has agreed to sign with Boston, the AP reports.
Boston is pathetic.
Damn.
That may lower the Holliday price though, as a few of the earlier guys have said.
Its so fucking on.
Matt Holliday. Come. On. Down. … or will he? Its down to the Cards and Yanks , and maybe even Colorado might get back and offer Holliday the deal he turned down originally.
the people still holding out hope for Cameron are funny…
its like a child who has opened up all the presents under the tree…and didn’t get the one they wanted…but are still holding out hope of 1 more gift that the parents will pull out of the closet.
Please. You’re not describing me, since I haven’t commented in days, let alone lamented losing Cameron, so I’m not reacting defensively here, but your comment is totally unfair. If fans want a certain guy and that guy signs with the team’s historical and divisional rival, it’s totally fair for those fans to lament that development on the day that development comes to light. It’s not like Cameron signed today and people are crying about it two months later or anything.
Keep things in perspective before you jump all over people like that.
[Golf clap]
I can’t wait to get my Justin Bieber CD this Christmas!
I’m pretty sure you already own all 7 copies in the Western Hemisphere.
***Imma tell you one time, one time, I’ve got every CD I need.***
Handjobs in movie theater during Twilight: New Moon, sweet new trapper keeper sold separately.
You know….I was initially against signing Holliday, but at the rate his suitors are vanishing (Boston got Cameron, so they’re out), it might actually be possible to sign him to a (relatively) decent contract that won’t screw us over too badly.
This is a good point… Time will tell, but it’s definitely possible that Holliday might have to take a lesser deal than what we’ve been expecting, now that we see how the market is shaping up.
Then again, if his price drops, I would think there would be other suitors that would step up with offers (Cards, etc.), which will drive the price back up just a bit for the Yanks. So, either way, I don’t think the Yanks are getting a huge discount. Maybe somewhat of a discount, but probably not so much that it’d be some sort of incredible coup.
2010 is going to be an interesting year. M’s are going for it in the AL West (signing away Figgins, getting Lee), Texas gets better, and let’s not forget the Angels. Could be a real race.
The Red Sox rotation scares me though. Lester-Beckett-Lackey. But two of the three have injury concerns (and Lackey’s on the wrong side of 30), so they might face difficulties in the regular season. If they’re all healthy for the playoffs though, it’ll be some battle if it’s a Yanks-Sox ALCS.
Man, I’m excited and it isn’t even Spring Training yet!
Umm, lets forget the Angels. They’ve lost Vlad and Lackey, added Matsui and are looking at Lowe to fill out their rotation. Their bullpen is horrendous, they non-tendered Arrodondo, and something tells me Abreu shows up in Spring Training with a gut the size of Archie Bunker. Big step back so far this off season. Who’s their ace, Jared Weaver?
J-E-R-E-D
/TSJC’d
(Kidding! Please don’t turn the minions against me, Tommie!)
You have incurred my eternal wrath. You now have 48 hours before the demons of Hell drag you to the nether regions, where you dine with the Spartans.
I found that comment rather shallow and pedantic.
Who are you? I’m the REAL TSJC.
Oh please, I cant keep up with all these white trash spellings.
It’s not like they’ll suddenly be horrible, and let the M’s and Rangers walk all over them. Unless they suffer injuries to key players for extended periods of time, I don’t really see that happening. I simply think that if they’re reasonably healthy, they’ll make it interesting, at least.
You’re excited?!?! FEEL THESE NIPPLES!!!!!
/Costas’d
My nipples explode with delight!
The Almighty Mariano Rivera checks in at number 24, the
highestonly ranked reliever.fixed
Pete Abraham on the Lackey:
“He has thrown only 339 2/3 innings the last two seasons because of assorted injuries. If he is healthy now, his arm should be fairly fresh.”
Was he this stupid when he was running LoHud?
TLIA (That Line Is Awesome).
I just LMAO.
Yes. I hate taking a shot at the guy like that, but whatever. That guy’s kind of a clown.
Trying to figure out if that was sarcasm or Kool-aid drinking.
Any leverage the Yankees had on Damon, as some radio announcers might say after a home run….. GONE!!!
It’ll be interesting to see what interesting options us RAB folks will consider after losing Matsui and Cameron in one day.
I would appreciate if you could explain that. The yankees replace him with curtis granderson as the number 2 hitter and can shift an average Melky to LF. The yankees don’t need damon when they can sign a DH for much less than Damon would command. Damon actually needs the Yankees more than the yankees need him.
Depends on how you view it.
Damon’s #’s are & will be improved by YSIII, so if he wants to have his most productive season, sure, he needs the Yankees.
But, being that he’s 36 & not getting younger, if he can get 3 (!?) guaranteed years @ close to Boras’ asking price, then he needs whatever team is offering.
This will be his last remarkable contract, and he’s well within his rights to try & maximize its value.
Hah and suddenly I want Nick Johnson back. Oh boy will this turn out to be an interesting winter. But I have faith that Cashman will make the right moves.
Will Johnson go for the strictly DH role, though? I don’t think he will, unless the Yankees pretty much overpay.
He loses value as a strict DH, so the Yanks overpay either way.
Nick Johnson is going to get 2 year offers. Delgado and Thome are much better options, likely had on a 1 year deal. Cash could make and sell the pitch: “Your last run should be with us…”
I’d like Jim Thome. I would never stop making “HEY GUYS IT’S JI/ JIM THOME” Dugout references all season.
THIS STORY ONLY ENDS ONE WAY
/throws worst possible fastball
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/0.....ening-day/
So much gold in there — “US Cellular Field ‘Dropped Call of the Night”, “Meche this game up for us”
Sonofabitch. Oh well, not getting Cameron is annoying, but not crushing.
Still doesn’t make the sox any better than the yankees.
That I really agree with that.
A bit better pitching staff, worse offense.
That fail.
Johan Iz My Brohan says:
Still doesn’t make the sox any better than the yankees.
Agreed wholeheartedly.
It does make them better, though, which is all they really care about. Rome wasn’t built in a day. It took a solid weekend to get that sonofabitch done.
You’re right, these were good moves.
…But as a Yankees fan, I still think we’re better. Which is good.
Jim? Papa Rome built Jim on a weekend at the Jersey Shore. Might have not built him at all, if the phone didn’t ring and he forgot to pull out.
What do you think of the “shrinking” Matt Holliday sweepstakes?
Aside from the Cards and Yanks , do you think the Rox might simply re-offer Holliday the contract he turned down in 2008?
He looks a lot better now than he did a week ago.
He looks a lot better now than he did a
weekseveral hours ago.Fixed.
Indeed. I remember reports that Holliday rejected a 4 yr -80 MM offer back in 2008. I wonder if Cash can get Holliday to sign to a 5 yr – 90 MM offer sheet … Holliday took a risk, but his market hasn’t really developed. I’m not so sure the Cards go $18 mm a yr when Pujols has got to be extended.
5/90 would be alright w/me.
I don’t think the Rox are going on that model anymore. I see them as heavily investing in young talent and signing them early (a la Tulo, similar to Longoria on a smaller scale), not signing guys on the wrong side of 30 to big deals.
I don’t know if this is stupid or not, so I ask you guys.
Should the Yankees go after Milton Bradley for the DH spot? I know about the off-the-field issues but he’s a heckuva player (career 115 OPS+). Is he an option or am I totally nuts?
(recycles a joke from earlier today)
That guy is nuts.
N-V-T-S, nuts.
I’d give an emphatic no to that idea. Bradley’s (1) not that good and (2) a complete f*cking nut-job. Not worth it.
HELL NO!!!!!!!
You are not nuts, but he is.
no, he is not an option.
Its good to see small market teams break the mold and add 100 million in payroll in one day.
/John Henry’d
And the rich get richer.
Glad to see the Red Sox taking that “step back” we heard so much about the past few weeks.
the only good thing that came from today is hollidays price tag dipping
asides from that, its just absurd we let matsui walk for a measley 6.5mm….inexplicable actually. he probably brings in that much in revenue from japan
Something tells me the Yanks aren’t convinced his body will hold up, even as a DH.
Bingo.
I’m not sold on Lackey holding up, either.
I agree. It was a good move, but not w/o risk.
Velocity is way down from a few years ago, had a variety of injuries. 5 years is a lot.
It seems weird to say, but Lackey for 5 years may make the Burnett deal seem rather low-risk in comparison.
but everyone is convinced damon will?
hes not even worth 10mm
He’s played 140+ games every year of his career except his first year. Its not unreasonable to assume Johnny holds up, if anything its unreasonable to think he wouldn’t..
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....yerId=3323
R.I.P. Mike Cameron to Yankees.
its been fun…well actually, no it hasn’t. I grew very tired of reading about Mike Cameron.
Just to bother people, I think I’m still going to pitch the Yankees to sign Cameron this ENTIRE off season.
He signed with the Sox? Whaaa? DONT CARE!!! TRADE FOR HIM!!!11
Get it done, Cashmoney!
It would make mryankee happy… we’d get to trade for someone.
I grew very tired of writing about Mike Cameron.
It had to be done, though, because people were being ignorant and thickheaded about Mike Cameron, claiming he was a bum and worthless and a bad player when he is none of those things.
Yeah, but his game is based on defense and power. He’s not that young anymore so his D can slip a little this season and his power might drop considerably with a move to a place like YS, even the new one.
Sure he would have been a decent addition, but I don’t know that he’s the best fit for the Yankees anyway.
Yeah, but his game is based on defense and power. He’s not that young anymore so his D can slip a little this season and his power might drop considerably with a move to a place like YS, even the new one.
And yet, he keeps putting up solid offense and outstanding defense, like a metronome. He’s shown no decline marks in his actual production yet.
The “decline” of Cameron is in theory only.
Let’s hope his decline becomes real now that he’s going to Boston.
Agreed.
If Cash had to choose b/w signing Ben Sheets or Matt Holliday, which player would you argue would be the greater impact player?
Can you live with a Granderson-Melky-Swisher outfield? Can you live with the inevitable struggles that will befall Joba and Hughes; troubles likely simultaneous?
Holliday, just because I’ve never been big on Melky.
I think I’d go w/Holliday at this point. Less risk?
Impact position players have more impact than pitchers, so Holliday.
That being said, I could absolutely live with that OF.
Why do you think Joba & Hughes will struggle simultaneously?
Two Words Clown:
Oh-Eight
—
I really do hope we go into the year with CC/AJ/Andy/Joba/Hughes with guys like Kelvim Escobar waiting in AAA if we need them. I want to see Joba and Hughes develop and try to reach their potential.
2010: not 2008
BTW, did you see that clown who’s impersonating you? What a douche.
Hmm?
Oh, you know what I mean.
No, i don’t.
/sincere’d
Fine. Change clown to “mime”.
Haha. I hadn’t read the thread, just jumped in. I missed the above exchange.
Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:
BTW, did you see that clown who’s impersonating you? What a douche.
I am gonna straight up murder his ass.
/Vitchard’d
A pity we have absolutely no clue who he is. None. Zero.
Dude, you gotta switch over to the Roman calendar.
Sheets, shorter committment, that’s IF he’s 100% healthy
“Ben Sheets” and “100% healthy” will never be separated by the word “is.”
IF he’s recovered from surgery.
better?
Ok, my shot at just completely throwing out some crap that is in my idea before having a reasonable amount of time to think about it:
I am going to work on the assumption, that as it stands now adding Holliday to the 2010 budget would be too much for Hal. I know the Yankees always say they have a budget, but this seems like a fair assumption.
First you sign Holliday for around 18 million a year. You then trade Swisher for prospects so you do not take on any more money. Then, in 2010 in essence Holliday would only cost 11 million and in 2011 9 million. Posada comes off the books in 2012, so Holliday’s contract is less of a burden then.
You then trade Melky and try not to pick up any salary. You take the 3 million Melky would cost and put it towards signing Delgado or Thome or some other DH on the cheap.
Jeter
Grandy
Tex
Arod
Holliday
Delgado/Thome/Cust/etc.
Posada
Cano
Gardner
With Gardner in there you also have some real nice defense in the OF.
A lot of shit going on, but wanted to get it out of my head. Does this make sense on any level?
It makes sense, but it’s too many moving parts to be realistic.
What he said.
I dunno sounds possible, move Swisher to the Braves, perhaps for Schafer + something. Then likely could find a spot for Melk, i.e. the Cubs especially since Cameron is off the board.
Mainly I don’t know if the Yankees want that much roster turnover.
The Braves are going to trade Jordan Schafer for Nick Swisher? I think we can do some business, me and you.
Garrett Atkins anyone?
I still want Cashman to try to acquire Josh Willingham.
No Atkins. Ever.
like I said, Willingham. we got some B+ pitching prospects that could interest the Nationals.
Garrett Atkins blows.
I still want Cashman to try to acquire Josh Willingham.
I’m still waiting to hear reasonable pricetags on either Willingham or Dunn.
The Nats are not motivated sellers.
And finally, the Nationals understand they have to give up something of value to acquire the pitching they believe they need, and they would rather hold onto their top prospects and deal someone like Willingham. If there is widespread interest in him, all the better.
http://voices.washingtonpost.c.....trade.html
Which translates to:
A) The Nats need pitching
B) The Nats know the only shot they have to get pitching is trading either Dunn or Willingham
C) Dunn or Willingham aren’t going anywhere unless the return is good pitching
I like both Dunn and Willingham, a lot. But the difference between them and whomever we can add for nothing but money on the free agent market is not worth losing Ivan Nova or Zach McAllister.
Why the hell do people want Jim Thome? There is no more obvious “this guy falls off the cliff in 3, 2, 1…” candidate in the majors than Jim Thome. That is plain dumb.
I don’t want Delgado either, but he’s a MUCH better option than Jim Thome. I will be pissed if Thome is here.
1. Cheap.
2. Short commitment.
3. Lefty in a lefty favoring park.
4. He’d be helped out by not being the best hitter in the lineup and having a lot of really good hitters around him.
He’s not anyone’s number one choice, but he’s not as bad a choice as you’re making him out to be.
I think Thome is close to done, but not quite a cold potato. Delgado, despite being an injury risk, looks like a better bet to hit well. JMKHO.
But he’s also a lefty with an uppercut swing in YS3. He may just hit 35+ home runs in that park. Maybe.
Look at Thome’s trends over the last few years. The guy is 5 seconds away from being totally useless.
But we may only need him for four seconds! Look, I mostly agree with you. I just think he may enough left to be productive. I’m not advocating his signing, but it’s worth kicking the tires.
So when he’s .230/.340/.460 you’ll be cool with it? Just say no.
FACT: Jim Thome has not had a sub .350 OBP since 1992.
FACT: He wasn’t 38 years old in 1993.
FACT: SLG down 4 straight years
FACT: Edging .360 OBP 2 straight years
FACT: ISOp down 4 straight years
FACT: BB/K down 4 straight years
FACT: FB% trending down
FACT: Has all the classic signs of “Old, fat slugger that cheats on fastballs and will blow hardcore next season”
I don’t think that’s what he’ll put up.
2008: .245/.362/.503/.865/ OPS+=123
2009: .249/.366/.481/.847/OPS+=118
Yeah, he’s not incredible. That’s not the argument. But his OBP is at .366 with pretty good slugging, a number sure to improve with YS3 being a hitters park that works well for lefties. Also, he has an upper cut swing. He’s not an ideal option, but if he gives you 130 games, rotating others for the other 32, I think he could put up
.250/.365/.520/.875 OPS+=129
This is a beaten down 38 year old (fat) man we’re talking about. Whatever you think he’s going to do based on previous seasons is, in all likelyhood, too high.
Kind of sucks to have a discussion about a player when the only reasoning from one side is that he’s fat and old.
You said you want Delgado more, last I checked Thome wasnt coming off of hip surgery, but Delgado was. All DHs have issues, thats why they’re DHs. Matsui’s knees can blow out anyday, so we shouldnt have signed him either right?
Jim Thome, 2009:
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.co.....niNI0l.jpg
Jim Thome: not fat
He’s a man, he’s almost 40
/gundy’d
I will say this. Those trends are alarming. Agreed. He can’t touch lefties or hit power pitchers.
You know what? You may be more right than I’d initially thought. I’m already really souring on him within the past ten minutes (not that I was that high on him at any point, but I digress).
Can we revisit Thome’s 2009 numbers: he was .249/.372/.493/.847 OPS+ of 122 prior to the trade, in which he was just a PH, his numbers for CWS were basically the same as last year.
I’ll bite:
Show me those trends. I’m willing to be convinced by your argument, but you have to do the work to convince me.
Delgado would be a great option, his numbers would be disgusting in this lineup, and he possibly won’t cost too much because he was out all year.
…it also screws little bro up, unless Dan Murphy decides to become Jesus Christ.
THIS STORY ONLY ENDS ONE WAY
That’s why people want Jim Thome.
That, and he’s been a good hitter forever, although he’s older than dirt now.
Welp now we just have to sign Holliday for LF and Bay to DH.
You shouldn’t have shaken the bear cage Boston. Should have stood down.
We’re kidnapping Adam Dunn and leaving a drugged, blindfolded Kei Igawa at the Capitol building with a sign reading, “No Takey Backeys.”
/mryankee’d
Kelly Johnson to the LEFT!11!!!!
What if we offered Holliday $20M per for 5 years, including an opt-out for him after year 3, and an option for us on year 5? That way, he could cash in again early if the market is strong for 2013, and we’d only be on the hook for 4/$80M if he underperforms.
What if we offered Holliday $20M per for 5 years,
That might work,
including an opt-out for him after year 3,
He hasn’t asked for that, but sure, whatevs,
and an option for us on year 5?
He’d NEVER accept a club option for the 5th year, and it’s moot, the Cardinals would guarantee the 5th.
That’s why I phrased it in the form of a question, Alec. I didn’t know the extent of the Cards’ potential commitment.
That said, this kinda reminds me of the Damon 2005 situation. Or maybe I’m just hoping.
The Cards will go 5 years for sure. Its the AAS that’s gonna kill’em at the end. Cashman should try to get Holliday at 18 MM per. I doubt the Cards could delve that deep into the bank; Pujols has gotta get paid soon.
5/85
opt out
get it done cash
That’s not enough.
The Yankees have gone almost a week WITHOUT MAKING A MAJOR ACQUISITION! AND THE RED SOX MADE TWO IN A DAY!!!!!
[Runs from desk, into wall...repeatedly.]
Okay. Okay. Okay.
[Looks at MLBTR.]
STILL NOTHING?!!!!
[Runs from desk, into wall...repeatedly.]
You OK?
You hit that wall pretty hard…need some ice or something?
ietcvm
Fuckin’ A, man.
I hope Cashman knows what hes doing. Cameron was our back up plan and hes gone. Matsui is also gone. If Damon doesn’t sign we have a serious hole in the lineup at DH. Thome or any of the other DH’s will sign for 2/3mil. They cannot compare to Matsui. If Damon signs you are trading Granderson for Matsui. Unless cash plans on getting Holiday or Bay I’ll remain skeptical. I’d also add if the sox go out and get Gonzalez or another big FA the Yankees will have to respond, the problem is theres not many options left.
PLZ NO BAY
Another panic button post!
The Sox aren’t better than us yet, and they’re not getting Gonzalez, Hoyer doesn’t want to deal him at the moment.
Not panicking at all but a few of our options are off the table so it’s easy to see how things could turn sour rather quickly if Damon signed somewhere else. I expect Cash to pick up a #4/5 starter and re up Damon which should be suffice.
Your post is a little panicky, Jonathan. The Red Sox made two acquisitions. They’re allowed. Mike Cameron signing is not going to make Cashman move any more quickly.
In case people feel the need:
http://tribewithted.mlblogs.com/panic-button.jpg
Padres would need a heck of a package to part with Gonzalez
And… if Cameron were the ‘backup plan’, Cashman would have stayed fully engaged. My guess – Cameron asked for 2 years, and Cashman decided he was done there.
“If Damon signs you are trading Granderson for Matsui.”
And there’s nothing wrong with that. 1. Cash improved the defense in LF/CF A LOT, assuming Damon or whoever is at DH. 2. ARod missed 5 weeks + slumped on his return and Yanks still had the #1 offense in the majors
I’d also add if the sox go out and get Gonzalez or another big FA the Yankees will have to respond
No, no they don’t. The Yankees are the World Champions, its on the rest of baseball to respond to them.
Cashman’s sticking to whatever he’s working towards, and right now its not securing the DH spot. It really makes me think there’s another splash heading towards the Yankee Universe. I’m gonna hope that its on the hitting end, but if its a on-the-mend Sheets, i’d be psyched too.
Still alot of Free Agency fun to be had.
Anyone interested in Guerrero for DH on a Cameron type deal? Guy can still rake and certainly looks more viable than Thome or Delgado. Sure he was injured last year but maybe he would do well with a Matsui-esque easy on the knees playing schedule.
No.
If you’re going to sign a guy like this, make it a lefty.
Guy can still rake and certainly looks more viable than Thome or Delgado.
Vlad Guerrero, 2009: 407 PA, .295/.334/.460 (106+)
Jim Thome, 2009: 434 PA, .249/.366/.481 (118+)
Carlos Delgado, 2008-09: 798 PA, .275/.358/.519 (129+)
Obviously you have to discount Delgado’s numbers some, since those numbers are pre-injury, but still:
A diminished Carlos Delgado >>>> Jim Thome >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vlad Guerrero
The thing that amuses me is that he’s lookin’ to give him a Cameron type deal and then he admits his knees are bad so he can’t play the outfield.
A Cameron type deal is simply a 2 year Matsui type deal, based on the idea that going into his age 35 season we could probably coax 2 years of straight DH duty from his knees. Glad I can provide some amusement for you.
I didn’t mean to come off as a dick, I really try not to do that. After rereading it, I did seem like a dick.
I apologize for that. I just think Guerrero on a one year would be bad enough. Vladdy is not the same guy he used to be, unfortunately. He was such a beast.
Fair enough
If you are going to include Delgado’s 2008 numbers, it is only fair to include Guerrero’s as well:
600 PA, .303/.365/.521
If you don’t feel the statistics favor Guerrero, fine. How about based on pure intimidation factor? Guerrero still scares the shit out of me when he comes up in a tight situation. Those other two, not so much. That has to be worth something, right?
Because the most recent real sample on Delgado is from 2008, while we have a full season of numbers from 2009 Vlad.
No, because the reason Vlad’s 2008 numbers are drastically better than his 2009 numbers is he fell off a cliff in 2009.
I only included Delgado’s 2008 numbers because he missed most of 2009 with injury.
If you don’t feel the statistics favor Guerrero, fine. How about based on pure intimidation factor? Guerrero still scares the shit out of me when he comes up in a tight situation. Those other two, not so much. That has to be worth something, right?
No.
My only concern is that you and the other people who are supporting signing Delgado are minimizing the effect of major hip surgery. Could he rebound like A-rod? Maybe. Could he be Albert Belle part deux, particularly given his age? Its a significant possibility.
I’m not minimizing it; I’m expecting Delgado to not be as good as he was before.
I just think a potentially diminished Delgado is probably better than an already diminished Vlad. Vlad looks D-O-N-E, and his numbers already reflect that.
But if you get him on a 1 year deal, then there’s not the same risk as there was with Belle.
On a side note, even in Belle’s last season, he put up a .281/.342/.474 line. It’s not up to his previous standards, but still respectable.
Albert Belle = underrated like woah.
He had serious HOF credentials, until the
steroidsdegenerative condition took out his hip.so the latest incarnation of the trade:
9:15pm: After going through several incarnations over the last 48 hours, the latest version of the deal has outfielder Michael Taylor, catching prospect Travis D’Arnaud, and a pitcher – either J.A. Happ or Kyle Drabek – going to Toronto, writes Stark in his latest update.
Under this scenario, the Phillies would get to hang on to Domonic Brown and would recieve Phillippe Aumont.
Why did Reuben basically deal cliff lee for phillippe aumont?
If it is Drabek then the Jays did pretty well and Seattle did very well depending on what else is not listed yet. Phils get the best player in the deal but gave up HUGE amounts.
There’s reports that Drabek is heating towards Toronto along with D’Arnaud and Taylor.
So the Phillies lose 2 top prospects in Drabek and Taylor and then trade arguably the best NL left-handed starter down the stretch for cap relief. I agree BK. Phillies gave up ALOT. Drabek could be ML ready a couple months into the season, and he’s supposed to be better than Happ.
& the M’s end up giving away Aumont & Tyson Giles?
I’ve got to be missing something. Isn’t that a small package for Lee?
Remember that they are effectively renting Lee for only one season.
The Phils are set.
They’ve got Doc Halladay, who should even improve moving to the NL.
They’re a lock to repeat as NL Champs & meet the Yanks in the WS.
I bet now when they face the Yankees in the World Series, they’ll have an Ace that can win them Game 1, Game 4, and…….. be a cheerleader when they lose, again, in Game 6.
Cameron got 15.5 million. How can Damon ask for more than that when
(1) he is not substantially better offensively and
(2) Cameron is a legit CF, while Damon is more of a DH at this point?
Am I missing something or did Damon just lose leverage by the Cameron signing?
No. He definitely gained leverage.
No, he’s just another DH in a FA pool full of DHs.
I’m devasted about Matsui, how the fuck could they let this happen? Fuck Damon.
my thoughts exactly
6.5mm for matsui is CHUMP change
he brings in more than that in revenue from japan for fucks sake.
Seconded. Still having trouble accepting it.
So if Damon wants to hold out for three years or whatever, what we do now with the 2 other most likely targets off the market????
I really hope that we don’t go with a rotating DH. It makes no baseball sense to me.
If they sign Holliday it makes sense.
The Yankees let Matsui leave for 6.5 million dollars? Really?
I would love to see how people can spin this into a good thing. Actually, can someone please spin this into a good thing before I break something.
I agree, it’s ridiculous. I’m hoping there is some sort of plan in tact with Matsui and Cameron off the market. Damon is gonna do the whole Boras BS.
all the leverage that the yankees got trading for granderson just went POOF when matsui and cameron signed.
and while Curtis Granderson may be a significantly better baseball player than Hideki Matsui, you still gotta take’s Godzilla’s bat (if healthy) in 2010
It’s not a good thing.
It’s also not a bad thing. It’s just a thing.
Its a shorter lineup is what it is. and if you want the five hitter to be there consistently, Damon can’t be clogging up the DH spot, that’s gotta be Jorge’s a lot, and he’s obviously the five hitter now.
okay now im really confused. this 3 team blockbuster isnt really looking like a 3 team trade anymore. its actually just the phillies making 2 trades. seattle isnt sending any prospects to jays supposedly. so that means philly just traded for halladay and traded away cliff lee.
now, anyone got info on this arnaud catching prospect? happ or drabek + arnaud + michael taylor seems like the latest prospects going to the jays.
does this matchup with montero+joba or hughes + prospects?
Another thing that really bakes my ziti — why does it seem that other teams ask for the moon when it comes to trading with the Yanks? Cash has bought low on two players (Swisher and Granderson) but it seems that when a superstar player is involved, other teams demand the sun and the moon from the Yankees and then settle with a lesser package.
Teams generally ask for the Sun and Moon from any team. They rarely get it.
Patrick Willis is good at football.
Holliday for five would be so much better than Damon for two/he’ll be pushing for three
Via MLBTR:
“The Cardinals have offered Matt Holliday a deal which would pay him $16MM per year for at least eight seasons”
I wouldn’t hold out hope on signing Holliday for 5 years.
AL West is going to be intense next year I bet with LAA TEX and SEA
10:12pm: Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun (via Twitter) has Toronto getting Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, and Travis D’Arnaud; Philly getting Roy Halladay and Philippe Aumont; and the Mariners getting Cliff Lee, plus another piece (or, pieces).
this just makes no sense at all
phillies are giving up 3 prospects for halladay. they are also trading giving up Lee in return for aumont(wtf?)
and seattle is getting lee AND others for aumont?
if they needed to dump lee for salary make a separate deal. it seems like toronto ended up getting what they wanted and philly sold lee cheap. if philly doesnt end up with saunders or trunifel this is an awful trade.
It’s complicated by all the conflicting/incomplete information. I’m not judging this deal until I know for sure what all the pieces really are.
Yep.
All baseball GMs are intelligent until proven stupid in a situation like this. Or something.
Has anyone read those comments on the Neyer piece? They’re hilarious;y stupid.
It all seems premature. I thought the reason Seattle was brought was the reluctance to include Drabek, but if he’s going anyway, why include Seattle at all?
Why not have Doc & Lee cruise in 2010? In the playoffs they’d be the 1-2 punch. Then, you can ask Lee if he likes being part of the two headed beast & take a discount, or go test FA. If the latter, you get two picks, and you got a year of Cliff Lee.
Does Aumont replace Drabek in ability?
Really, Mariano is #24, and the highest ranked reliever. Wow. What a feather in his cap. The highest ranked reliever. Wow. Like there were others? Pathetic. Ranking Rivera this low will get Neyer consideration on one of Bud Selig’s Hall of Fame study committees. Or, his BBWAA pals will run him up a notch for perks in the hierarchy. It sounds like you have a few years to go before you get a clue about awards/public rankings related to BBWAA members and Mariano Rivera. The point is this: when it’s not going in the record, when it’s just them talking in an article to someone, they’ll say Mo was the #1 player of his era. But they don’t say it when it’s something semi-official like this list of Neyer’s. If you don’t want to say he’s number one, fine. But 24? Pathetic.
Who says it like that?
Mo is special, & everybody knows it. Sometimes the praise can be hyperbolic.
Positional players impact the season more than Starting Pitchers affect the season more than Relief Pitchers.
Mo is a …?
The season doesn’t start tomorrow. Plenty of time to make moves. Cashman brings in Granderson, and suddenly because he can’t sign everyone out there, it’s time to panic?
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