Dec
14

Open Thread: Neyer’s top 100 players of the decade

By

With only 17 full days left in the decade, there’s all sorts of  “the best of the decade” lists coming out. The best movies, the best albums, all sorts of stuff. So naturally, Rob Neyer put together a list of the 100 best baseball players of the decade, and as you can imagine, the Yankees are well-represented. Let’s round it up:

  • Alex Rodriguez ranked as the second best player in the decade, behind only Albert Pujols.
  • Derek Jeter wasn’t far behind him, coming in at number four. Barry Bonds was between the two.
  • Jorge Posada comes in at number 15, sandwiched between Vlad Guerrero and Bobby Abreu. He was the top ranked catcher on the list.
  • The Almighty Mariano Rivera checks in at number 24, the highest ranked reliever.
  • CC Sabathia was right behind him at number 25, and Johnny Damon not far off at number 32.
  • Mark Teixeira was named the 43rd best player of the decade despite not making his debut until 2003.
  • Good ol’ Andy Pettitte comes in right at the halfway mark, number 50.
  • Former Yanks: Abreu (16), Randy Johnson (18), Jason Giambi (19), Javy Vazquez (29), Gary Sheffield (34), Mike Mussina (35), Pudge Rodriguez (41), Roger Clemens (42).

That’s seven players on the Yanks 40-man roster that rank among the 50 best players of the last ten years. Including former players, 17 members of the decade’s 50 best players have worn pinstripes in that time. Dayum. Without doing the math, I’m going to guess no other team approaches that number.

Anyway, here’s your open thread for the night. The MNF game features the Cardinals in San Francisco, plus the Rangers and Isles are in action in separate games. There’s been a ton of hot stove action throughout the day, so talk about it here. Just make sure you follow the guidelines and be cool.

Categories : Open Thread

470 Comments»

  1. JobaJr says:

    Want a move that will really blow everyone out of the water? Sign Matt Holliday.

    -Hallladay is off the board for the coming years due to the extension he will likely sign.

    -Now they don’t have to trade catching prospects (Monetero) for Doc, so the run at Mauer next year becomes less likely, even though he is likely staying in the Twin Cities.

    -Matsui is close to signing with the Angels.

    -Damon is WAY off in negotiations.

    -The Red Sox likely won’t make a run at Holliday due to the committment to Lackey, and their interest in extending Beckett.

    -Holliday has said since the start of the offseason his number one choice would be NY.

    -Completely fixes the Outfield issue for years to come.

    No one except the Cardinals has made a serious offer at Holliday. Will 4 years at 75 million do the trick?

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      No one except the Cardinals has made a serious offer at Holliday. Will 4 years at 75 million do the trick?
      No, not at all.

      • JobaJr says:

        How do you know that based on the market he currently has? He virtually has NO suiters other than St. Louis.

        • RollingWave says:

          your too low on the years, Jason bay, a year older and inferior overall player, is asking for 6 years. 6 would probably be the abosalute minimum to sign Holliday.

          Also, my main worry on both Bay and Holliday is that their comparable players holds a whole lot of great hitters that flame out by or before their mid 30s. it just seems that historically speaking corner OFers that hits great (but not out of this world great, like Barry Bonds or Gary Sheffield.) tend to not age too gracefully (even when compared to 1B/DH). from a physical stand point obviously Bay is even more worrisome than Holliday, but the general logic still holds .

          The Yankees have generally been pretty lucky with these long term deals (or older players in general), generally because they target truly elite talent guys . but corner sluggers tend to be the types where it is difficult to really distinguish the greats from the very good. somehow I can’t shake off the feeling that Matt Holliday is the later.

    • pat says:

      Now with Cammy going to Boston most likely perhaps we could lowball Holliday. I’m down with this.

  2. Evil Empire says:

    Neyer’s Top 100 Players of the ten years ranging from 2000 through 2009!

    I honestly think its complete and utter bull that he put Pujols, a 1B, over A-Rod, a SS/3B. That kind of bothers me. ITS ONLY THE MOST IMPORTANT TOP 100 PLAYERS LIST IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE!

    • Salty Buggah says:

      Well, he said if A-Rod stayed a SS, he’d be #1. Also, Pujols offensive numbers>A-Rod

      • Evil Empire says:

        The gap in performance between A-Rod and all other SS/3B of the past decade > the gap in performance between Pujols and all other 1B of the past decade

        Neyer’s wrong!

  3. Salty Buggah says:

    Only 2 players have 2000 K’s in the 2000′s. Randy Johnson and…Javy Vazquez.

  4. Drew says:

    All I want for X-Mas is a DH! That’s why I’m hoping we outbid the Angels for Godzilla. A DH is all this team is lacking right now, maybe a bullpen arm as well.

    Cammy to the Sox is a bummer, not because Boston got him and we didn’t, but because now I have to root against him. If it is finalized of course.

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      Are there any more attractable free agents than Damon for DH?

      • Drew says:

        Delgado, Johnson, Garko, Miggy, Cust, Vlad, Thome, Gomes, Molina.

        They aren’t more attractive than Damon but those are our options out of the FA pool.

      • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

        As A.D. suggested, is Bay an option? My guess is that he’ll command too big a deal. But still, I wouldn’t e too disappointed in that.

        I still want Damon though.

        • Evil Empire says:

          Bay for three years would be fine but the Mets are offering him FIVE. To that I say “F THAT S!!!!”

          I’d rather the Yankees go for Damon + DH. Or Matty H.

          • Mike Pop says:

            I still want no part of Matty H or Bay.

            I mean, I guess if you could get Matty H for 4 years – I’d be for it.

            • Drew says:

              +28,29,30,31.

              All I really want is a 1 or 2 yr DH.

            • Evil Empire says:

              Holliday for 5 years would be more than acceptable if the price is right.

              • Mike Pop says:

                I guess. But I have no problem just picking up a DH and giving Melky LF.

                If he doesn’t do well, you pick up a bat mid-season.

                Johnny Damon, paging you to rotate between DH and LF for a 1 year deal.

              • whozat says:

                If that fifth year is at what I’d consider acceptable over 4 years, plus a few mil…yeah, maybe. Like, if he’d take 5/72 instead of 4/68. But why would he do that?

                I’m wondering if Cash is looking out there and seeing that there just aren’t these huge deals out there for anyone, and these numbers are going to start coming down in a month.

  5. Mark says:

    http://twitter.com/TylerKepner/status/6677353527

    Kepner confirms the Matsui signing, and in a later tweet he says Yanks home opener is vs Angels so Matsui will be there which is awesome because the guy deserves the great reception that he will get.

    • I was ready to see him go and believe Cash made the right move here, but I loved Matsui as a Yankee and it will be very tough to see him in another uniform. Toughest one since Andy went to Houston.

  6. JobaWockeeZ says:

    Oh boy Matsui to the Angels and Cameron to the Sox. Now this day is starting to suck.

    • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

      Cameron’s not on the Sox yet.

      • JobaWockeeZ says:

        So hopefully Cashman can use his ninjutsu skills again?

        • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

          Hopefully.

          To be honest, I’m not really that concerned by what the Sox are doing. Cameron is good. Whatevs. They’ve improved the pitching staff and defense a bit (although since Beckett is highly overrated it’s not as good as it seems). Offense stays more or less the same, or even downgrades with a Cameron signing. Not good for the Sox, their offense can really be an issue this year with a lot of older players on that team.

          • Evil Empire says:

            I more or less agree. I’m not *concerned* per se. I do think the Red Sox have upgraded their team in the short term (I.E. 2010), but long term … still many many ?s.

            • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

              Yes, they’ve upgraded. Certainly. But their offense could very well be rather mediocre.

              • Evil Empire says:

                Cameron is a drop in offensive production from Bay but a big leap in defense. But not enough to even it out, it a net loss for sure.

                They have a NASTY rotation. Nasty. But I just can’t see myself worrying to much about them. Come October baseball, I might be worried more about Seattle and the crazy 1-2 punch of Felix/Lee.

                Good thing we’re the MFY. Confidence level remains at 10, in this and all other universes.

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

                  It’s a very good rotation. But Beckett’s injured all the time and is overrated anyway. I could see it disappointing a bit.

                  They can really have serious offensive problems. I still pick the Yanks. Our pitching staff is good enough that with our offense we’ll still be the shit.

                • Evil Empire says:

                  If just one of Joba or Hughes comes into his own, then our starting rotation is as good as anyone’s. If both two, holy schnikes.

                  And same thing could be said for Cano. He takes one more leap and he’s a bonafide superstar.

                • waswhining says:

                  With Cameron in the fold does this mean the Sox are ready to flip Bucholtz and Ellsbury to the Padres for Adrian Gonzalez?

          • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

            Scratch that…Lackey is a big improvement in the pitching staff, to be fair (although he’s certainly not the Red Sox answer to Sabathia like SNY said).

            Still have the offensive problems.

      • Lanny says:

        You really think Mike Cameron is going to swing anything?

        Thats a huge drop off offensively from Bay out in LF.

    • Could be worse, you could be a Mets fan. You had your heart set this off season on either Halladay or Lackey, and both went off the board within 2 hours of each other. Now you’re looking at a rotation rounded out by Jason Marquis and Oliver Perez.

  7. Rose says:

    Where’s Mariano Rivera???

  8. JMK THE OVERSHARE's Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor says:

    I can’t remember a 24-hour period in which the stove burned SO hot. Hell, even the trading deadline doesn’t see this much diggity.

  9. Omg!Zombies! says:

    Matusi reached an agreement with Angels :(

    I wanted him over Damon

    • Mike Pop says:

      Me too. This saddens me.

      • JobaWockeeZ says:

        It will be tough watching Matusi in a different uniform. I’ll still root for the guy even though he’s on a team I detest very much.

        • Mike Pop says:

          We salute you, Mr. Matsui-san.

        • +1

          If its any consolation, it appears the Angels won’t be nearly as good next year as they were this year. They’re looking at replacing Lackey with Derek Lowe. Ouch.

          • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

            Calling it now, Seattle wins that divison, Texas is the wild card, Sox and Angels miss playoffs.

            • Nooooo the Sox got better today, and Cammy’s a good move for them. Bay was very streaky last year and is bad defensively. They have a terrific rotation, maybe the deepest in Baseball.

              • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

                Cammy’s good, probably a net wash.

                The rotation is good, but Beckett’s hurt all the time and overrated anyway. I could see that rotation disappointing a bit.

                They’re getting older. I really think their offense will be a significant problem for them.

                Yankees win the East. Red Sox rotation is good, but Felix Hernandez AND Lee? Just sick.

                • That’s wishful thinking. They’re a good team that just got significantly better.

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

                  I know they’re a good team. I think the AL is very good this year. I think they win over 90 games and miss the playoffs.

                  [I know it's a pipe dream. They're still not beating out the Yanks for the division.]

    • Bob Stone says:

      I really waanted Matsui back. His clutch hitting is great. I am not happy if he finalizes a deal with LA, I mean Anaheim, no CA . . . oh forget it.

  10. Rose says:

    Matsui signed. Cashman you piece of shit!

    What the hell is this guy waiting for??

    Pitching and LF were his priorities…but he had time to make the Granderson deal…he couldn’t top the Angels offer for Matsui?!?!?

    Idiot.

  11. Rose says:

    Wait! Matsui’s agent wouldn’t tell them anything! It’s not guaranteed!!! PLEASE TELL ME THERE’S A CHANCE TO BRING HIM BACK!!!

    Paid for by the:
    Matsui for 2010 Campaign

  12. A.D. says:

    Honestly, who is going to sign Jason Bay now?

    Seattle Re-Ignites?
    Yankes for DH?
    Mets?

  13. Mark says:

    You think the Mets have to be the favorites for Bay now, just to calm the fan base down, it was like suicide prevention on FAN today.

  14. No more Homer-deki.

    :(

    I can has Nick Johnson?

    or

    I can has Johnny Damon + Mike Cameron?

    or

    I can has WORDUPTHOME?

  15. Salty Buggah says:

    The worst news of the day: A-Rod and Kate may have split up. Oh noes!!!! How will he ever hit in the postseason gone. She was the MVP (P does not stand for player…)

    • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

      OMG NO!!!!!!!!

    • Salty Buggah says:

      Fuckin iPod. *Now not gone

    • Guest says:

      My desire to see “Nine” has diminished greatly. Go in peace, Ms. Hudson. Thanks for the memories.

      Maybe A-Rod is learning from this Tiger thing:
      “Hmm…If I marry this woman…will I cheat on her? Survey says…Yes. Yeah, better not risk it. That Jetes is on to something with this whole ‘bachelor’ thing.”

  16. danny says:

    John Lackey haters, this will be much appreciated:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

  17. I’m bored.

    I hate this state sometimes. I miss New York.

  18. A.D. says:

    There are bigger issues, namely A-Rod & Kate Hudson may have broken up!!!!! Oh nooos.

  19. Salty Buggah says:

    FakeJSterling:

    How did the small market Red Sox find the money to afford John Lackey #IsntItAmazing

    Fake Sterling knows whats up

  20. nickb says:

    Sign Holliday to play LF, sign one of Sheets/Garland/Duscherer, bring Delgado in on a 1 yr deal to DH. Could you imagine how many HRs he will hit with the short porch?

    Jeter
    Granderson
    Tex
    Arod
    Delgado
    Holliday
    Posada
    Cano
    Swisher

    Thats one mean line up…

  21. Salty Buggah says:

    From a Phillies blogger’s Twitter:

    @Phrontiersman: AP relays report that Blanton, Happ and Dom Brown all took physicals today. This move may yet be bigger than we think.

    Interesting

    • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

      If Philly’s are giving up all those prospects to swap Lee with a guy who’s better, but not by TOO much, it could end up being a terrible deal.

    • That was cleared up on MLBTR. Apparently the Phils were trying to do a 2 team trade earlier in the day, and were looking to move Blanton/Happ to get pieces and dump salary in Blanton’s case. That fell through, so they got Seattle involved.

  22. Salty Buggah says:

    If the Sox sign Cammy and also Beltre, they would have one of the best defenses in the game, if not the best. Pedroia, Youk, Beltre, Cammy, Scutaro, and Drew = Great D.

    Holliday’s D is pretty good too so now I’m on board for signing him if the Yanks can get him for 4 years somehow.

    • Evil Empire says:

      4 years is just not possible if Bay got a 5 year offer already, but I don’t see why a 5th year for Matty H would be so bad if the price is right.

    • vin says:

      I’m guessing Ellsbury would move to LF because Cameron in LF would be an absolute waste.

    • Yeah, Theo seems to be going with pitching and defense for a change. Not sure how well that will go over in Boston, but it may be his best move this off season.

      Credit where credit’s due, terrific move by Theo signing Lackey. N-O-B-O-D-Y heard a peep that he was going there, and Theo struck quickly and made a quick deal. If the Yanks caught wind of it, you know they would have drove up the $$$.

  23. theyankeewarrior says:

    So when do the Yankees announce the Holliday signing? I thought one of the perks of being a Yankee fan was not having to watch everyone else sign big name FA’s and trade for aces….

    I’m thinking Holliday signs a 4/74 with the Yanks by Friday.

  24. TheLastClown says:

    So what’s the deal with the Halladay trade?

    Lee ends up Seattle

    Halladay to Philly

    Jays get D’Arnaud, Morrow, & what else?

    At first glace it looks like the Jays predictably took the worst of it.

    Glad to trade Doc out of the league & welcome Lee back in.

  25. Steve H says:

    I really hope the Sox put Cameron in LF and leave Tacoby in center.

    • chriskeo says:

      Although let’s be honest, we’ve all seen their respective UZR’s on fangraphs, it would be a crime to leave Ellsbury in center and put Cameron in Left.

    • Mike Pop says:

      Mhm…. I’d be willing to bet Jacoby improves his defense out there. He seems to have the ability to play a better CF, so he could improve.

  26. vin says:

    Cameron in Fenway is troublesome. He’s a monster when he pulls the ball – .492/.492/.977/1.469 ops (last year).

  27. j. Pomales says:

    Boras must be scrambling every where just to find suitors for holliday it looks like theirs not much he must be blowing up cashmans cell as i write this.

  28. Evil Empire says:

    Matt Holliday is a Scott Boras client. There’s no way he’s taking a 4 year deal. The Cardinals will offer him some form of a 5 year deal, if not anybody else. If you aren’t comfortable with Holliday being signed for 5 years than you aren’t comfortable with Holliday being signed, period.

    • Steve H says:

      Signing a position player for 5 years is much much safer than a pitcher. For the right price, I’d be thrilled to get Holliday. I hope the market for him continues to shrink, I wish the Cardinals were in on Bay though. If Holliday were to come at 5/90, I’d be all aboard.

      • Evil Empire says:

        /high five

        I’m right with ya. 5/90 seems about right. But the Yankees would indeed have to be willing to keep their payroll in the $210M-ish range for the next 5 years then. If they’re cool with that, Holliday is a solid investment.

      • Think he’d go for 4/76?

        • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor says:

          Doubt it. I see Evil Empire’s scenario as more likely.

        • Steve H says:

          Not anytime soon, but if the market doesn’t develop and that’s out there in mid-January maybe he would. I’d love to see it.

          • Evil Empire says:

            That would be one of the biggest overplaying of one’s hands in the history of contracts.

            Bay looks like he’ll get his 5 years from the Mets if not anybody else, I’d think it would be unbelievable for Matt H to get less years, even at a higher AAV, than Jason Bay.

            The Cardinals will offer him a 5 year contract. As long as his demands don’t match Albert’s current deal in total dollars (duh) or AAV, they’ll be the main contenders players.

        • theyankeewarrior says:

          I hope so. But if not nab him for 5/80something because he’d be a solid guy to bat behind our 300M investment. Someone has to play LF and someone has to hit 5th while Posada declines and Matsui goes to Cali with Jackie Chan.

          Why not have that someone be Matt Holliday? Who are we saving our bucks for?

        • Chris says:

          Probably not. You might get him if you push it over $20M AAV, but I can’t see a shorter deal working for less than that.

  29. theyankeewarrior says:

    Drabek involved in the trade????

    via MLBTR

  30. JMK THE OVERSHARE's Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor says:

    If the Jays got Triunfel, Brown and Aumont, I think that’s about as good as they could do. Not a bad haul for GM Alex.

  31. Teix is the Man says:

    Would it really be that bad to just put Melky in left? Essentially, it is the same lineup except you are replacing Damon with Granderson. Of course, this depends on the DH situation.

  32. vin says:

    I guess no more inadvertent A-Bombs from Matsui, huh? Should make Sterling’s life a little easier.

  33. Brian Cashman is Watching says:

    I don’t think I understand the moves today.

    Lackey to Boston does not seem like a typical Boston move. He’s 32, and doesn’t have “great” stuff. He has begun to show slight decline in his numbers (though it has been slight) from his high in 2005. A 32 year old pitcher signed for 5 years? It’s an AJ Burnett contract, and I remember how thrilled some people were when Burnett signed that.

    Two theories: Boston has moved for pitching and defense and hoping for league average offense from a fairly solid lineup, or Boston is trading Beckett/Buchholz or simply wants to drop Wakefield from the rotation. Beckett is a free agent and will command a lot of money, so maybe Lackey is a safety net? Dump Wakefield to the bullpen this year with Lester, Beckett, Dice-K, Lackey, Buchholz?

    The Halladay-Lee trade seems strange as well. Halladay is a better pitcher, but wasn’t the idea to have a dominant 1-2 punch of Halladay-Lee? Halladay is older and costs more, but I guess Halladay was more open for an extension. Guess we have to see what was given up.

    • vin says:

      I agree on all your points.

      RE: Lackey

      That is definitely a risky move for them – in terms of risk… it’s right up there with the Drew and Dice K signings. It does make sense to spend your money on pitching and defense with the assumption that the home ballpark will offset any offensive deficiencies. But I do recall Theo speaking after the season about how they wanted to be better on the road next year.

      This has been a very interesting offseason so far.

    • Yeah, the Halladay deal really has me scratching my head. It says on MLBTR that Lee wanted a “Sabathia-type contract” extension, but I don’t believe that for one second. I think it’s just damage control for dealing him away after he was so good this past postseason.

      The Phils just gave up a significant package last year to get Lee, now they gave up another significant package to get his replacement. Plus, Halladay will get 60-70 mil on an extension. Sounds ridiculously expensive to me.

    • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor says:

      Lackey isn’t a great move for the Sox because of the years and likely reducing some future moves for better players, but it does give them top to bottom, the best rotation in the majors right now. Really, it looks great on paper. I don’t know if it will perform to that, but if it does, they mitigated some of the damage their offense/defense has. They’re definitely a serious playoff contender with that rotation alone.

      I don’t think they’ll have the salary to keep Lackey and Beckett moving forward. Joshie is out after this year, I suspect, with Lackey taking his place in the rotation. They’ll be hoping Bucholz pans out; that could be huge for them keeping a nasty, relatively cost-free rotation while still upgrading their lineup in 2011.

      I think a key point in the Halladay-Lee swap is that Halladay can throw three games in a playoff series. That itself is a big upgrade.

      • vin says:

        I think a key point in the Halladay-Lee swap is that Halladay can throw three games in a playoff series. That itself is a big upgrade.

        I, too, mentioned this earlier… I think it is worth re-emphasizing.

        I also don’t think Beckett re-ups with the Sox. They got his peak years for a great price (well, in terms of dollars anyway). If Buchholz turns the corner, then they’re set for the next few years.

        • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor says:

          Yeah, you did write that; sorry I didn’t credit you. Not having the new comment indicator really makes it hard to find and there have been about 800 comments through three threads discussing this trade.

      • Mike Axisa says:

        Cliff Lee could absolutely throw three games in a playoff series, Charlie Manuel is just too stupid to let him do it. Let’s not turn the manager’s idiocy into player inadequacy.

        • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor says:

          I see your point; the fact is Halladay has experience doing it while Lee does not, and for a team that’s virtual playoff lock, they may just desire that to put them over the top.

          I should have been more clear: he may very well be able to throw on three days a few starts in a row, but Halladay is a MUCH safer bet to do it and do it effectively. They thought they could extend him, he’s an upgrade over Lee and he’s a workhorse with a better overall track record.

          I don’t like the move, but I understand it.

        • vin says:

          Of course he could, but I suspect there aren’t too many managers who would’ve pitched him 3 times.

    • Steve H says:

      I think Lackey is a good signing but a bad contract, much like AJ. The Sox can afford another bad contract, they might as well get a good player.

  34. JobaWockeeZ says:

    Well apparently according to ESPN, Sox made an offer for Chapman for 15 M. They’ve been busy today.

    • rbizzler says:

      The Chapman offer was made a while back when he was repped by his old agent. ESPN decided to splash that today like it was fresh news for whatever reason.

      Chapman’s big workout is tomorrow.

  35. Bryan says:

    Just gotta say, I’d like to thank my parents for raising me a yankee fan, listening to the fan today was absolutely hysterical. Mets fans were ready to kill someone. Gonna be a lot of empty seats at citi next season if they dont do something drastic

  36. Bryan says:

    at first i sat there laughing my ass off, then the more i listened, the more i realized that these people have legitimate psychotic issues

  37. pollo says:

    I’m so ticked we didn’t sign Cameron. He was ABSOLUTELY the right solution to our problems in left. I can’t believe he went to the Sox. Really, really dumb. How you going to ignore his defense Cash? His WAR? I can’t believe we just let him go like that. UGH.

  38. Joe D says:

    But why would Boston want Cameron? He isn’t gritty or a gamer. If anything he is athletic.

  39. I sort of touched on this with my morning TYU piece, but as I got into the Sheets/Duchscherer stuff I found it begging another question. Here it is-

    You’re Brian Cashman. You have 10 mil left to spend this off season on one more big move, and a few mil after that to fill out the bench. You can have either Johnny Damon or Ben Sheets for the same price for the 2010 season. Which one you go for?

    • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

      Damon. A DH you need, a rotation you have.

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      I go for Damon. The rotation is pretty much set and there’s a decent amount of depth for starters even with IPK going. If a couple guys from the minors pans out like Melancon then hopefully Aceves can now be a spot starter to go along side Guadin. Also hopefully Nova is close to the majors putting up decent numbers.

      • OK, but signing Sheets allows you to move either Hughes/Joba to the bullpen, upgrading you in both the rotation and bullpen. Damon doesn’t give you that.

        He’s an awful defender who figures to get worse, so what he gives you with his bat should be subtracted from what Melky/Gardner would give you defensively, lessening his value a bit. He’ll DH some, but Jorge will DH a lot next year as well. Johnny won’t be a full time DH, far from it. Maybe 60-80 games there.

        All totaled, I go with Sheets. I think we’ll suppress more runs with Sheets than we’ll score with Johnny (over their replacements).

    • Yeah I’ve been thinking along the same lines, I kinda touched on this issue below. It’s obviously a hypothetical, since I’m sure Cashman can spend a little more than $10M before addressing the bench… But, damn, is Ben Sheets attractive, whether it means no more big bats or not. Then again, the offense is already really good, but obviously depth would be very well-served, especially on a team with a few of its main pieces getting up there in age, by signing another bat. I really don’t know where I come down on this one, but, today at least, I’m leaning towards Sheets.

      Then again, Sheets hasn’t pitched in a year, so we have to remember he’s still a risky play (if he comes at the expense of another useful, and less questionable, part).

      Yup. Still confused.

      • Yeah, Johnny’s more of a sure thing. That’s the best argument for him. But I’m leaning toward Sheets as well. He upgrades you in the Rotation (and bullpen) and I think we’ll score plenty of runs with what we have. We led all of Baseball in Runs Scored last year, taking a tiny step back there and a step forward in run suppression should work out OK.

        • I think the next step in the conversation is to look at the affordable DH options out there. I know it doesn’t fit your hypothetical… But if you’re not committing big money to another player (like Damon), I guess there’s a chance you could go get a Sheets and a DH like Delgado, right? I don’t like venturing in to that territory because I think we, as fans, get a bit carried away with thinking these guys are going to sign for less money than they actually will… But I’m not so sure you couldn’t get Sheets plus a DH-type bat for not much more than a couple million more than Damon would cost (and Damon seems like he’ll require at least 2 years, to boot). I think that’s probably my ideal solution, at this point, knowing what we know.

          • Yeah, I’m not sure if Nick Johnson would sign for 4-5 mil, but if he would the Sheets option looks even better.

            • Agreed. We’ll see… My feeling is that the longer we get into the postseason, the more likely we are to get some sort of bargain somewhere. I mean, this year, we’re the ones waiting for a cheap Abreu to fall into our laps. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Yanks make a relatively minor move or two and then sit around and wait for the cheap option to reveal itself before pouncing on it. It’ll be tough to wait for that type of situation to develop and I’m sure plenty of people will be freaking out while the process is ongoing, but that might be the optimal course of action at this point, given how the pieces are falling this offseason.

    • If

      A) I can only add one more player and
      B) that player will be either Damon or Sheets

      as much as it pains me (because I like the other guy’s upside way more), I choose Damon. He fills a greater need than Sheets does. If we don’t add Sheets, we still have an opening day rotation of CC-AJ-Andy-Joba-Phil. If we don’t add Damon, we have an opening day lineup that includes both Melky AND either Gardner (in the OF) or Miranda (at DH). One Gardbreranda* is acceptable, two is not.

      Our need for one more bat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our need for one more arm

      ————

      * “Gardbreranda” © tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada, 2009. All rights reserved

  40. Per MLBTR, here are the potential free agents next year in the outfield:

    Left fielders
    Eric Byrnes (35)
    Carl Crawford (29)
    David DeJesus (31) – $6MM club option with a $500K buyout
    Adam Dunn (31)
    Willie Harris (33)
    Jason Kubel (29) – $5.25MM club option with a $350K buyout
    Jason Michaels (35)
    Manny Ramirez (39)

    Center fielders
    Alfredo Amezaga (33)
    Willie Bloomquist (33)
    Jody Gerut (33)
    Willie Harris (33)
    Andruw Jones (34)
    Mark Kotsay (35)
    Jason Michaels (35)
    Corey Patterson (31)
    Willy Taveras (29)

    Right fielders
    Willie Bloomquist (33)
    Jose Guillen (35)
    Brad Hawpe (32) – $10MM club option with a $500K buyout
    Gabe Kapler (35)
    Magglio Ordonez (37) – $15MM club option vests with 135 starts or 540 plate appearances in 2010
    Jayson Werth (32)

    With A-Jax out of the system and no other high-profile outfield prospects on the near-term horizon, does that make Holliday more attractive to the Yankees? Obviously the trade market is a wrinkle that we can’t really predict/discuss much, so I’m just talking about free agents that the Yankees can buy, here.

    On a 4 year contract, the Yanks would have Holliday for his age 30-33 seasons. On a 5 year contract, it would be ages 30-34. The back-end is a risk, obviously, but it’s not like the guy will be a senior citizen at the end of the contract.

    In a sense this is kind of similar to the Teixeira situation last offseason… He’s going to cost a lot of money, but he’s probably the best free agent solution available to the Yankees in the next couple of seasons. Carl Crawford is good, but he’s not as good as Holliday. I assume Crawford will be looking for a 4 year deal next offseason – a deal that would expire the same year as a 5 year deal (for Holliday) signed this offseason.

    The flip-side of all of this is that the Yankees lineup is already sick, without Matt Holliday, and Holliday’s going to cost a lot of dollars at a time when the Yanks already have a ton of guaranteed money on the books for the next few years (and will only be adding to those totals when they have to re-up with Jeter and Mo).

    I think if you’re looking for the most effective left fielder option on the free agent market, Holliday’s your guy. The reason to not sign him isn’t that there’s a better option out there, it’s that you don’t want to lock yourself into another high-priced and relatively long-term contract. I’d like to see the Yankees spend whatever money they may have on Ben Sheets, maybe Chapman, and a cheaper LF or DH option. I’m not a big Melky fan, but there are worse fates than having Melky as the number 9 hitter in a lineup featuring the likes of Granderson, Jeter, Tex, A-Rod, Posada, Cano, etc.

    /end rambling

    PS: Totally just thinking out loud here, feel free to tell me I’m missing something huge or misrepresenting some aspect of this stuff.

    • I agree with all of this “rambling.” Holliday does look a lot more attractive now (IF Cameron is indeed signed by the Sawx).

      • You know, the thing is… I think Cameron is actually kind of irrelevant to what I’m saying. Cameron would be perfect as a stop-gap option, but at this point, who is the stop-gap for? Who are we keeping that position warm for? I think my point was actually that the case for Holliday is unaffected by the loss of guys like Cameron and Matsui from the market.

        I guess the response would be that the stop-gap would be for an as-yet unknown option, either via trade or development or some other route. But without A-Jax in the system, the calculus changes a bit, no? I didn’t think A-Jax was any sort of sure-thing, but he certainly factored into the long-term plans.

        Meh… I’ve said it all offseason this year… There aren’t any clear answers, in my opinion.

        • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

          Keeping it warm for Crawford I thought.

          • Well color me very unconvinced that Crawford is either a lock to be available to the Yankees next year or the best option for the Yankees. We’ve discussed this before so I won’t rehash the entire conversation, but Crawford, when he becomes a free agent, will be going into his age 30 season, will be coveted by many teams, will likely require at least a Damon-like contract (the just expired contract, I mean), and is a player whose value seems to be very tied up in his speed.

            Keeping the spot warm for Crawford wouldn’t be a bad thing, necessarily, but I’m not sure that it would make the Yankees a better team than just signing Holliday now.

            • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

              True.

              Now I want Holliday, all of a sudden.

              • Heh, I hear you. I think Holliday got a little less love around here than he’s gotten at some other Yankees blogs, and I haven’t necessarily disagreed… But the Holliday proponents definitely have some decent points in their corner. In the end, it comes down to money and flexibility weighed against the potential on-field benefit of having the best possible LF option. I still fall on the side of wanting the Yanks to find non-Holliday solutions.

            • Plus, how can we know he’ll actually become a FA? If the Rays fall out of it, he’ll likely get traded and the team that gets him may very well want to sign him to an extension to justify the cost in talent.

              When dealing with small market FA’s, it’s very dangerous to assume they’ll hit the market. So many of them never do.

              • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

                True, but supposedly that’s how the Yanks worked with Sabathia.

                • That’s one, and Johan Santana, Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay, Dan Haren are 4 who never did. Happens a lot is my point. Plus, Brewers are a mid-market team. Rays are small market.

                • To expand on Nostra-Artist’s point… Correct me if I’m wrong, but I also don’t remember CC being a trade candidate like those other guys when he was entering the last year of his contract. The Indians thought they would compete, so he wasn’t on the market like Johan and the rest of those guys were. And, the chances of a guy getting traded mid-season and signing an extension with the acquiring team (and not seeking free agency) are much lower than the chances of a guy signing an extension in the offseason.

                  So I don’t think CC is really the same kind of case as those other guys.

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

                  What I mean is Cash took a gamble assuming he’d be a FA, and it worked out.

            • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor says:

              Also, if the Red Sox signed Cameron to a one-year, there’s also a good chance they’re in on the CC(2) market next year.

        • Meh… I’ve said it all offseason this year… There aren’t any clear answers, in my opinion.

          DAMN YOUS WITH YOUR WILLINGNESS TO ADMIT THAT ISSUES ARE COMPLEX AND CAN’T BE EASILY PORTRAYED AS RIGHT/WRONG OR BLACK/WHITE! DAMN YOUS TO HELL!!!

        • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

          Days like this I’m glad I’m not Cashman. Very complicated market out there.

    • I agree as well.

      Matsui and Cameron signing elsewhere removes two of our three primary “Let’s sign these good and cheap stopgap options so we don’t have to overcommit to Holliday” options. Damon is the only one left. There are other options behind him, but they’re far less appealing.

      Conversely, though, Matsui, Cameron, Halladay, Lee, and Lackey all finding new homes (coupled with Bay inching closer to the Mets) has reduced some of Holliday’s suitors, making a bidding war for him less likely/protracted. It’s still going to take 5/100 at least, but there’s fewer teams in the mix, which means fewer teams willing to jump in with a larger counter offer.

      I’m more willing to take on Holliday’s contract obligations now that the market has cooled a bit and our alternatives have thinned out.

    • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor says:

      I think you summed this up pretty effectively. I also agree with your final point that while Melky is not a great option at LF, due to our power up the middle, we still have the luxury of having a weak-hitting LF. Holliday would certainly be an upgrade. We could be really good offensively over the next few years, but the flip side of that is tying up payroll on what’s essentially an upgrade from a Corolla to an E-Class Mercedes.

      The Corolla (Melky) works well enough, and if it allows you to continue to make your mortgage payments, save for retirement, invest properly, while taking nice vacations and having a good time, you pass on the Benz. In relation to the totality of the situation, the Corolla is a better value to your organization.

  41. Johan Iz My Brohan says:

    MLBTR: 7:53pm: Mike Cameron has agreed to sign with Boston, the AP reports.

    Boston is pathetic.

    • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

      Damn.
      That may lower the Holliday price though, as a few of the earlier guys have said.

      • Reggie C. says:

        Its so fucking on.

        Matt Holliday. Come. On. Down. … or will he? Its down to the Cards and Yanks , and maybe even Colorado might get back and offer Holliday the deal he turned down originally.

  42. Big Rich says:

    the people still holding out hope for Cameron are funny…

    its like a child who has opened up all the presents under the tree…and didn’t get the one they wanted…but are still holding out hope of 1 more gift that the parents will pull out of the closet.

    • Please. You’re not describing me, since I haven’t commented in days, let alone lamented losing Cameron, so I’m not reacting defensively here, but your comment is totally unfair. If fans want a certain guy and that guy signs with the team’s historical and divisional rival, it’s totally fair for those fans to lament that development on the day that development comes to light. It’s not like Cameron signed today and people are crying about it two months later or anything.

      Keep things in perspective before you jump all over people like that.

    • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor says:

      I can’t wait to get my Justin Bieber CD this Christmas!

  43. Rey22 says:

    You know….I was initially against signing Holliday, but at the rate his suitors are vanishing (Boston got Cameron, so they’re out), it might actually be possible to sign him to a (relatively) decent contract that won’t screw us over too badly.

    • This is a good point… Time will tell, but it’s definitely possible that Holliday might have to take a lesser deal than what we’ve been expecting, now that we see how the market is shaping up.

      Then again, if his price drops, I would think there would be other suitors that would step up with offers (Cards, etc.), which will drive the price back up just a bit for the Yanks. So, either way, I don’t think the Yanks are getting a huge discount. Maybe somewhat of a discount, but probably not so much that it’d be some sort of incredible coup.

  44. ecksodia says:

    2010 is going to be an interesting year. M’s are going for it in the AL West (signing away Figgins, getting Lee), Texas gets better, and let’s not forget the Angels. Could be a real race.

    The Red Sox rotation scares me though. Lester-Beckett-Lackey. But two of the three have injury concerns (and Lackey’s on the wrong side of 30), so they might face difficulties in the regular season. If they’re all healthy for the playoffs though, it’ll be some battle if it’s a Yanks-Sox ALCS.

    Man, I’m excited and it isn’t even Spring Training yet!

  45. JGS says:

    The Almighty Mariano Rivera checks in at number 24, the highest only ranked reliever.

    fixed

  46. Hey ZZ says:

    Pete Abraham on the Lackey:

    “He has thrown only 339 2/3 innings the last two seasons because of assorted injuries. If he is healthy now, his arm should be fairly fresh.”

    Was he this stupid when he was running LoHud?

  47. ultimate913 says:

    Any leverage the Yankees had on Damon, as some radio announcers might say after a home run….. GONE!!!

    It’ll be interesting to see what interesting options us RAB folks will consider after losing Matsui and Cameron in one day.

    • Nathan says:

      I would appreciate if you could explain that. The yankees replace him with curtis granderson as the number 2 hitter and can shift an average Melky to LF. The yankees don’t need damon when they can sign a DH for much less than Damon would command. Damon actually needs the Yankees more than the yankees need him.

      • TheLastClown says:

        Depends on how you view it.

        Damon’s #’s are & will be improved by YSIII, so if he wants to have his most productive season, sure, he needs the Yankees.

        But, being that he’s 36 & not getting younger, if he can get 3 (!?) guaranteed years @ close to Boras’ asking price, then he needs whatever team is offering.

        This will be his last remarkable contract, and he’s well within his rights to try & maximize its value.

  48. JobaWockeeZ says:

    Hah and suddenly I want Nick Johnson back. Oh boy will this turn out to be an interesting winter. But I have faith that Cashman will make the right moves.

  49. Sonofabitch. Oh well, not getting Cameron is annoying, but not crushing.

  50. Hummingbird Saltalamacchia says:

    I don’t know if this is stupid or not, so I ask you guys.

    Should the Yankees go after Milton Bradley for the DH spot? I know about the off-the-field issues but he’s a heckuva player (career 115 OPS+). Is he an option or am I totally nuts?

  51. Nathan says:

    Its good to see small market teams break the mold and add 100 million in payroll in one day.

    /John Henry’d

  52. Jobamania says:

    the only good thing that came from today is hollidays price tag dipping

    asides from that, its just absurd we let matsui walk for a measley 6.5mm….inexplicable actually. he probably brings in that much in revenue from japan

  53. Free Mike Vick says:

    R.I.P. Mike Cameron to Yankees.

    its been fun…well actually, no it hasn’t. I grew very tired of reading about Mike Cameron.

  54. Reggie C. says:

    If Cash had to choose b/w signing Ben Sheets or Matt Holliday, which player would you argue would be the greater impact player?

    Can you live with a Granderson-Melky-Swisher outfield? Can you live with the inevitable struggles that will befall Joba and Hughes; troubles likely simultaneous?

  55. Hey ZZ says:

    Ok, my shot at just completely throwing out some crap that is in my idea before having a reasonable amount of time to think about it:

    I am going to work on the assumption, that as it stands now adding Holliday to the 2010 budget would be too much for Hal. I know the Yankees always say they have a budget, but this seems like a fair assumption.

    First you sign Holliday for around 18 million a year. You then trade Swisher for prospects so you do not take on any more money. Then, in 2010 in essence Holliday would only cost 11 million and in 2011 9 million. Posada comes off the books in 2012, so Holliday’s contract is less of a burden then.

    You then trade Melky and try not to pick up any salary. You take the 3 million Melky would cost and put it towards signing Delgado or Thome or some other DH on the cheap.

    Jeter
    Grandy
    Tex
    Arod
    Holliday
    Delgado/Thome/Cust/etc.
    Posada
    Cano
    Gardner

    With Gardner in there you also have some real nice defense in the OF.

    A lot of shit going on, but wanted to get it out of my head. Does this make sense on any level?

  56. Brooklyn Ed says:

    Garrett Atkins anyone?

    I still want Cashman to try to acquire Josh Willingham.

  57. Hughesus Christo says:

    Why the hell do people want Jim Thome? There is no more obvious “this guy falls off the cliff in 3, 2, 1…” candidate in the majors than Jim Thome. That is plain dumb.

    I don’t want Delgado either, but he’s a MUCH better option than Jim Thome. I will be pissed if Thome is here.

    • 1. Cheap.
      2. Short commitment.
      3. Lefty in a lefty favoring park.
      4. He’d be helped out by not being the best hitter in the lineup and having a lot of really good hitters around him.

      He’s not anyone’s number one choice, but he’s not as bad a choice as you’re making him out to be.

    • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor says:

      I think Thome is close to done, but not quite a cold potato. Delgado, despite being an injury risk, looks like a better bet to hit well. JMKHO.

      • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor says:

        But he’s also a lefty with an uppercut swing in YS3. He may just hit 35+ home runs in that park. Maybe.

      • Hughesus Cristo says:

        Look at Thome’s trends over the last few years. The guy is 5 seconds away from being totally useless.

        • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor says:

          But we may only need him for four seconds! Look, I mostly agree with you. I just think he may enough left to be productive. I’m not advocating his signing, but it’s worth kicking the tires.

          • Hughesus Cristo says:

            So when he’s .230/.340/.460 you’ll be cool with it? Just say no.

            • FACT: Jim Thome has not had a sub .350 OBP since 1992.

              • Hughesus Cristo says:

                FACT: He wasn’t 38 years old in 1993.

                FACT: SLG down 4 straight years

                FACT: Edging .360 OBP 2 straight years

                FACT: ISOp down 4 straight years

                FACT: BB/K down 4 straight years

                FACT: FB% trending down

                FACT: Has all the classic signs of “Old, fat slugger that cheats on fastballs and will blow hardcore next season”

            • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor says:

              I don’t think that’s what he’ll put up.

              2008: .245/.362/.503/.865/ OPS+=123
              2009: .249/.366/.481/.847/OPS+=118

              Yeah, he’s not incredible. That’s not the argument. But his OBP is at .366 with pretty good slugging, a number sure to improve with YS3 being a hitters park that works well for lefties. Also, he has an upper cut swing. He’s not an ideal option, but if he gives you 130 games, rotating others for the other 32, I think he could put up

              .250/.365/.520/.875 OPS+=129

        • I’ll bite:

          Show me those trends. I’m willing to be convinced by your argument, but you have to do the work to convince me.

    • Johan Iz My Brohan says:

      Delgado would be a great option, his numbers would be disgusting in this lineup, and he possibly won’t cost too much because he was out all year.

      …it also screws little bro up, unless Dan Murphy decides to become Jesus Christ.

    • Accent Shallow says:

      THIS STORY ONLY ENDS ONE WAY

      That’s why people want Jim Thome.

      That, and he’s been a good hitter forever, although he’s older than dirt now.

  58. pat says:

    Welp now we just have to sign Holliday for LF and Bay to DH.

    You shouldn’t have shaken the bear cage Boston. Should have stood down.

    • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor says:

      We’re kidnapping Adam Dunn and leaving a drugged, blindfolded Kei Igawa at the Capitol building with a sign reading, “No Takey Backeys.”

  59. Hughesus Cristo says:

    Kelly Johnson to the LEFT!11!!!!

  60. cheddar says:

    What if we offered Holliday $20M per for 5 years, including an opt-out for him after year 3, and an option for us on year 5? That way, he could cash in again early if the market is strong for 2013, and we’d only be on the hook for 4/$80M if he underperforms.

  61. Pasqua says:

    The Yankees have gone almost a week WITHOUT MAKING A MAJOR ACQUISITION! AND THE RED SOX MADE TWO IN A DAY!!!!!

    [Runs from desk, into wall...repeatedly.]

    Okay. Okay. Okay.

    [Looks at MLBTR.]

    STILL NOTHING?!!!!

    [Runs from desk, into wall...repeatedly.]

  62. Jonathan says:

    I hope Cashman knows what hes doing. Cameron was our back up plan and hes gone. Matsui is also gone. If Damon doesn’t sign we have a serious hole in the lineup at DH. Thome or any of the other DH’s will sign for 2/3mil. They cannot compare to Matsui. If Damon signs you are trading Granderson for Matsui. Unless cash plans on getting Holiday or Bay I’ll remain skeptical. I’d also add if the sox go out and get Gonzalez or another big FA the Yankees will have to respond, the problem is theres not many options left.

    • Jobamania says:

      PLZ NO BAY

    • Johan Iz My Brohan says:

      Another panic button post!

      The Sox aren’t better than us yet, and they’re not getting Gonzalez, Hoyer doesn’t want to deal him at the moment.

      • Jonathan says:

        Not panicking at all but a few of our options are off the table so it’s easy to see how things could turn sour rather quickly if Damon signed somewhere else. I expect Cash to pick up a #4/5 starter and re up Damon which should be suffice.

        • Pasqua says:

          Your post is a little panicky, Jonathan. The Red Sox made two acquisitions. They’re allowed. Mike Cameron signing is not going to make Cashman move any more quickly.

      • scooter says:

        In case people feel the need:
        http://tribewithted.mlblogs.com/panic-button.jpg

        Padres would need a heck of a package to part with Gonzalez

        And… if Cameron were the ‘backup plan’, Cashman would have stayed fully engaged. My guess – Cameron asked for 2 years, and Cashman decided he was done there.

    • Zack says:

      “If Damon signs you are trading Granderson for Matsui.”

      And there’s nothing wrong with that. 1. Cash improved the defense in LF/CF A LOT, assuming Damon or whoever is at DH. 2. ARod missed 5 weeks + slumped on his return and Yanks still had the #1 offense in the majors

    • A.D. says:

      I’d also add if the sox go out and get Gonzalez or another big FA the Yankees will have to respond

      No, no they don’t. The Yankees are the World Champions, its on the rest of baseball to respond to them.

    • Reggie C. says:

      Cashman’s sticking to whatever he’s working towards, and right now its not securing the DH spot. It really makes me think there’s another splash heading towards the Yankee Universe. I’m gonna hope that its on the hitting end, but if its a on-the-mend Sheets, i’d be psyched too.

      Still alot of Free Agency fun to be had.

  63. Dave says:

    Anyone interested in Guerrero for DH on a Cameron type deal? Guy can still rake and certainly looks more viable than Thome or Delgado. Sure he was injured last year but maybe he would do well with a Matsui-esque easy on the knees playing schedule.

    • TheLastClown says:

      If you’re going to sign a guy like this, make it a lefty.

    • Guy can still rake and certainly looks more viable than Thome or Delgado.

      Vlad Guerrero, 2009: 407 PA, .295/.334/.460 (106+)
      Jim Thome, 2009: 434 PA, .249/.366/.481 (118+)
      Carlos Delgado, 2008-09: 798 PA, .275/.358/.519 (129+)

      Obviously you have to discount Delgado’s numbers some, since those numbers are pre-injury, but still:

      A diminished Carlos Delgado >>>> Jim Thome >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vlad Guerrero

      • Mike Pop says:

        The thing that amuses me is that he’s lookin’ to give him a Cameron type deal and then he admits his knees are bad so he can’t play the outfield.

        • Dave says:

          A Cameron type deal is simply a 2 year Matsui type deal, based on the idea that going into his age 35 season we could probably coax 2 years of straight DH duty from his knees. Glad I can provide some amusement for you.

          • Mike Pop says:

            I didn’t mean to come off as a dick, I really try not to do that. After rereading it, I did seem like a dick.

            I apologize for that. I just think Guerrero on a one year would be bad enough. Vladdy is not the same guy he used to be, unfortunately. He was such a beast.

      • Dave says:

        If you are going to include Delgado’s 2008 numbers, it is only fair to include Guerrero’s as well:

        600 PA, .303/.365/.521

        If you don’t feel the statistics favor Guerrero, fine. How about based on pure intimidation factor? Guerrero still scares the shit out of me when he comes up in a tight situation. Those other two, not so much. That has to be worth something, right?

        • Hey ZZ says:

          Because the most recent real sample on Delgado is from 2008, while we have a full season of numbers from 2009 Vlad.

        • No, because the reason Vlad’s 2008 numbers are drastically better than his 2009 numbers is he fell off a cliff in 2009.

          I only included Delgado’s 2008 numbers because he missed most of 2009 with injury.

          If you don’t feel the statistics favor Guerrero, fine. How about based on pure intimidation factor? Guerrero still scares the shit out of me when he comes up in a tight situation. Those other two, not so much. That has to be worth something, right?

          No.

  64. Mike bk says:

    so the latest incarnation of the trade:

    9:15pm: After going through several incarnations over the last 48 hours, the latest version of the deal has outfielder Michael Taylor, catching prospect Travis D’Arnaud, and a pitcher – either J.A. Happ or Kyle Drabek – going to Toronto, writes Stark in his latest update.

    Under this scenario, the Phillies would get to hang on to Domonic Brown and would recieve Phillippe Aumont.

    Why did Reuben basically deal cliff lee for phillippe aumont?

    If it is Drabek then the Jays did pretty well and Seattle did very well depending on what else is not listed yet. Phils get the best player in the deal but gave up HUGE amounts.

    • Reggie C. says:

      There’s reports that Drabek is heating towards Toronto along with D’Arnaud and Taylor.

      So the Phillies lose 2 top prospects in Drabek and Taylor and then trade arguably the best NL left-handed starter down the stretch for cap relief. I agree BK. Phillies gave up ALOT. Drabek could be ML ready a couple months into the season, and he’s supposed to be better than Happ.

    • TheLastClown says:

      The Phils are set.

      They’ve got Doc Halladay, who should even improve moving to the NL.

      They’re a lock to repeat as NL Champs & meet the Yanks in the WS.

      I bet now when they face the Yankees in the World Series, they’ll have an Ace that can win them Game 1, Game 4, and…….. be a cheerleader when they lose, again, in Game 6.

  65. Hey ZZ says:

    Cameron got 15.5 million. How can Damon ask for more than that when

    (1) he is not substantially better offensively and
    (2) Cameron is a legit CF, while Damon is more of a DH at this point?

    Am I missing something or did Damon just lose leverage by the Cameron signing?

  66. Crazy Eyes Killa says:

    I’m devasted about Matsui, how the fuck could they let this happen? Fuck Damon.

  67. Crazy Eyes Killa says:

    So if Damon wants to hold out for three years or whatever, what we do now with the 2 other most likely targets off the market????

  68. MeatSalad says:

    I really hope that we don’t go with a rotating DH. It makes no baseball sense to me.

  69. YankeeGaGa says:

    The Yankees let Matsui leave for 6.5 million dollars? Really?
    I would love to see how people can spin this into a good thing. Actually, can someone please spin this into a good thing before I break something.

  70. Jobamania says:

    okay now im really confused. this 3 team blockbuster isnt really looking like a 3 team trade anymore. its actually just the phillies making 2 trades. seattle isnt sending any prospects to jays supposedly. so that means philly just traded for halladay and traded away cliff lee.

    now, anyone got info on this arnaud catching prospect? happ or drabek + arnaud + michael taylor seems like the latest prospects going to the jays.

    does this matchup with montero+joba or hughes + prospects?

  71. MeatSalad says:

    Another thing that really bakes my ziti — why does it seem that other teams ask for the moon when it comes to trading with the Yanks? Cash has bought low on two players (Swisher and Granderson) but it seems that when a superstar player is involved, other teams demand the sun and the moon from the Yankees and then settle with a lesser package.

  72. Crazy Eyes Killa says:

    Holliday for five would be so much better than Damon for two/he’ll be pushing for three

  73. Crazy Eyes Killa says:

    AL West is going to be intense next year I bet with LAA TEX and SEA

  74. Jobamania says:

    10:12pm: Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun (via Twitter) has Toronto getting Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, and Travis D’Arnaud; Philly getting Roy Halladay and Philippe Aumont; and the Mariners getting Cliff Lee, plus another piece (or, pieces).

    this just makes no sense at all
    phillies are giving up 3 prospects for halladay. they are also trading giving up Lee in return for aumont(wtf?)

    and seattle is getting lee AND others for aumont?

    • Mike bk says:

      if they needed to dump lee for salary make a separate deal. it seems like toronto ended up getting what they wanted and philly sold lee cheap. if philly doesnt end up with saunders or trunifel this is an awful trade.

    • Bob Stone says:

      It’s complicated by all the conflicting/incomplete information. I’m not judging this deal until I know for sure what all the pieces really are.

  75. Esteban says:

    Has anyone read those comments on the Neyer piece? They’re hilarious;y stupid.

  76. TheLastClown says:

    It all seems premature. I thought the reason Seattle was brought was the reluctance to include Drabek, but if he’s going anyway, why include Seattle at all?

    Why not have Doc & Lee cruise in 2010? In the playoffs they’d be the 1-2 punch. Then, you can ask Lee if he likes being part of the two headed beast & take a discount, or go test FA. If the latter, you get two picks, and you got a year of Cliff Lee.

    Does Aumont replace Drabek in ability?

  77. Frank says:

    Really, Mariano is #24, and the highest ranked reliever. Wow. What a feather in his cap. The highest ranked reliever. Wow. Like there were others? Pathetic. Ranking Rivera this low will get Neyer consideration on one of Bud Selig’s Hall of Fame study committees. Or, his BBWAA pals will run him up a notch for perks in the hierarchy. It sounds like you have a few years to go before you get a clue about awards/public rankings related to BBWAA members and Mariano Rivera. The point is this: when it’s not going in the record, when it’s just them talking in an article to someone, they’ll say Mo was the #1 player of his era. But they don’t say it when it’s something semi-official like this list of Neyer’s. If you don’t want to say he’s number one, fine. But 24? Pathetic.

    • TheLastClown says:

      Who says it like that?

      Mo is special, & everybody knows it. Sometimes the praise can be hyperbolic.

      Positional players impact the season more than Starting Pitchers affect the season more than Relief Pitchers.

      Mo is a …?

  78. ecksodia says:

    The season doesn’t start tomorrow. Plenty of time to make moves. Cashman brings in Granderson, and suddenly because he can’t sign everyone out there, it’s time to panic?

  79. [...] night we went with a “top [whatever] of the decade” theme for the open thread, so let’s continue with that today. Baseball America is [...]

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