Dec
14

Rosenthal: Sox, Cameron in ‘serious talks’

By

The headline pretty much says it all, but Ken Rosenthal just reported on Twitter that the Red Sox and Mike Cameron are engaged in “serious talks.” Yankee fans have lusted after Cameron for the last few years. He brings a power bat and great defense to the table. With this move and their earlier signing of John Lackey, the Red Sox seem out of the market for Jason Bay or Matt Holliday. Will the Yankees jump in on a left fielder who isn’t Johnny Damon?

Categories : Asides, Hot Stove League
  • AndrewYF

    I’m just glad Boston saved their shopping for the weak free agent class this year, instead of splurging last year.

  • http://fmylife.com JobaJr

    The Sox were out of the J-Bay/Holliday market as soon as they signed Lackey.

    • http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

      Yeah, I was expecting this the second I heard about Lackey. Makes a lot of sense for them.

      • Winston Wolf

        With Bill James on board, you know they understand that total value is linked to runs prevented and runs created – so this is smart and short-term

        Will be interesting to see if Beltre is the next target (for 3B) OR if the Sox think they can pry AGon away from the Padres (at the cost of the Laptop Thief, Casey Kelly, and Westmoreland)

        Meanwhile I have to think Holliday starts to become affordable (with the Cards as the only competition, unless the Angels get involved)

  • Manny + The Evil Empire

    The beast is now unleashed, that being us.

  • Stevis

    What is such a big deal with Cameron?! Glad the Sux got Lackey instead of Doc!

    • KK

      Cameron is a relatively affordable outfielder who still has decent range at his advanced age. He’s also a RH bat with some power, which plays pretty well in Fenway.

      He’s pretty much a mirrored version of Johnny Damon with more defensive capability and a lower average (OBP is a bit lower, but the slugging% is the same in the end)

      Still holding out hope that the Yankees sign him and move him to left. Much rather have Cameron than Damon, honestly.

  • Mike bk

    i believe i called this when the lackey news came in this afternoon.

  • Stevis

    by the way the Yankees Rule!!!

    • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

      So many fails on this one. Even in the Twitter age, you have done an incredible job of maximizing your fail efficiency.

      Bravo.

      • TheZack

        Why, because he said the Yankees rule and he’s glad the Sox got Lackey instead of Halladay? Get off your high horse.

        • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

          It’s more a fun combo of reply fails, grammar fails in such compact form. What the heck, sure, I’ll bite: a fairly strong argument could be made that the Sox prying Halladay would be better for the Yankees in the long run. They’d no doubt have to give up some very promising prospects, increase payroll, and pay a guy big $$ for his mid-30s decline. They’d have had to extend him as well; giving up the types of prospects needed to get Roy from Toronto would be far more than the draft picks received through compensation.

          Cameron is actually a very good fit in Boston, perhaps even better a fit than in New York. It also takes off a very attractive option for us, reducing the market to blind-reach-of-faith types like Kelly Johnson and other risky, cheap players; trades for guys like DeJesus or whomever, which will also cost us a decent prospect; or lock us into a DH masquerading as a LFer (Damon); or overpay for Holliday, greatly reducing our flexibility.

          /Hi-yo, Silver, away!

          • Camilo Gerardo

            when you have holliday for the next ~6-7 years, do you really need flexibility? think about it. it’s not like we have any can’t miss corner outfielders in the minors

  • Mike bk

    no matsui, no cameron and damon just got back a lot of leverage.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Nope. Still other options out there.

      • Scooter

        With a little patience, Cashman might get some bargains – we might be surprised at who’s ‘left over’ after the feeding frenzy is done

        • nick blasioli

          his patience already cost us some great players…

          • Mike P

            Yeah that Sabathia guy was really great… oh wait.

      • Evil Empire

        Mike, maybe I’m being stupid here – certainly wouldn’t be the first time – but are JBay and Holiday losing leverage here with all of these moves? Especially if BoSox sign Cameron.

        Is Seattle still in the running for Bay after taking on Lee’s salary? Or is it just a fight between the Cardinals and Giants now?

        • Scooter

          I’m figuring Omar has already zeroed in on Bay, and will overpay

          If SF is dumb enough to go 3 years, they could land Damon

          • Evil Empire

            Ugh, for the sake of Damon’s HOF pursuit, I really hope he doesn’t sign with San Francisco. That stadium is like, the exact opposite of YSIII.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          Oh sure, take away a big market club like the Sox and they lose leverage. I don’t think Seattle was ever serious about Bay, they value defense too much.

          • Evil Empire

            The inevitable followup question:

            Obviously, fuck Jason Bay, let the Mets have him. But does Matty H possibly fall into the Yankees’ price range now?

            Are the Giants in the discussion for Matt Holliday, or is it really The Cardinals and no one else?

            • Brian Ewart

              How far does his price have to fall to be worth it though?

            • Brian

              I really wouldn’t be surprised to see the Yanks pursue Holliday, they were aggressive with Andy and Granderson, but I think they’ve been waiting to see how the market develops at each position. It seems like starting pitchers are at a much higher premium than position players this offseason, the best value may be in Holliday.

              • KK

                I think it’s pretty telling that there are no bidders on Holliday. His stint on the A’s proved that he can’t cut it in the AL, and he wants to be paid like he’s “Great” when he’s merely “Good” (and that’s debatable, since it’s not like he’s a defensive stud)

                • Camilo Gerardo

                  replace Colosseum for AL and you got it. second point still applies

                • KK

                  His Home/Away stats are pretty much identical when he was in Oakland (and in St. Louis) so I think field effects probably aren’t as big as you’d expect. He was just legitimately average in the AL.

                  http://www.mlb.com/stats/indiv.....statType=1

    • Rose

      Yup.

  • fresh

    i really feel that the yankees are going to consider that damon wants 3 years and decide to just give the extra 2 to holliday. it wouldnt be blocking a of spot for austin anymore. i see damon going to the giants on a 3 yr deal with an option

  • Mark

    If Cam goes to the Sox and Bay to the Mets, what is left for Holliday? The Yanks or going back to the Cards.

  • Salty Buggah

    Cameron hopefully wont go to the Sox. Makes them better & might force Damon to keep his demands. Please don’t let this happen Mo. If Cammy goes, I hope we get Holliday instead of signing Damon for 2 or 3.

    • TheZack

      Oh come on, Cameron going to the Sox doesn’t change anything for them or the Yanks. It gives them a CF/LF rotation of Cameron, Hermida, and Jacoby. That’s not exactly scary.

      Granderson is far more of an impact than Cameron.

      And Cameron signing won’t make a bit of difference in terms of Damon.

      • Januz

        That outfield, plus Nancy Drew in right (Makes Swisher, Melky and Damon look like Ruth, DiMaggio and Mantle). Throw in Veritek and you have once lame hitting team. I really think Holliday is coming, to replace Damon and Matsui, If that happens the 3 biggest losers will be. 1: LA Angels. 2: Cardinals. 3: Damon. While the winners will be. 1: Yankees. 2: Seattle. Milwaukee.

        • Whitey14

          I’ll take Drew over Swisher, offensively and defensively. I don’t love Cameron, but I’ll take him over Cabrera/Gardner and Ellsbury obviously isn’t as good as Granderson, but what is it about your outfield that you think makes them that much better than Boston’s?
          I would agree that if Holliday comes to replace Cabrera/Gardner it tilts toward NY, but that hasn’t happened yet.

          • Camilo Gerardo

            if garbrera starts the season in left field, i don’t think cashman would be content

  • MattG

    Whether it be Ellsbury or Cameron, the guy in left won’t need to be three feet behind Scutaro.

    Cameron will enjoy a boost from the Monster, but unless they intend to move one of those guys to left, how are they getting the proper boost in run prevention?

    This is to say I don’t think Cameron makes sense in Boston.

    • Scooter

      Based on UZR, you stick Cameron in CF, and Ellsbury in left

  • Brian Hickey

    What kind of deal do you think Holliday can command at this point?

    • fresh

      5 years 80 mill maybe..

      • KK

        Too much for a player who can’t hit in the AL.

  • ultimate913

    Haha. Now if this happens, Boras will be like “What was your offer again?”

    If this AND the Mastui deal gets done, we are in for some hard times, my friends. Anyone think the Yanks should or will pursue Holliday if this deal goes down? Will be looking for a DH on the market or do we use our own system to fill that gap?

    Things are finally starting to unfold for the Yankees.

    • Lanny

      Maybe they were in on Holliday from the start and thats who they want this off season.

      I think they’d rather give the younger better guy 5 yrs than the older guy 3.

    • Tampa Yankee

      If this AND the Mastui deal gets done, we are in for some hard times, my friends

      How? The Sox offense still blows (Ortiz, Scutaro, Taco Bellsbury, etc). The Angels lost Lackey and Figgins while Matsui is an upgrade over Vlad, it’s not enough to make up for those losses.

      • andrew

        Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youkilis, Martinez, Drew, Ortiz, Cameron, Scutaro, + a third basemen, possibly Beltre.

        The Sox lineup really doesn’t suck, at all. They may not incite fear into their opponents the way that Manny, Ortiz, Jim Rice, or Bernie did, but that is still a quality lineup.

        • Januz

          That lineup is as frightening as Casper The Friendly Ghost: Cameron, Veritek, Drew, Ellsbury and Scutaro (Off a career year). Boston almost always had at least one hitter that could terrify pitchers: Foxx, Williams, Rice, Yaz, Lynn, Boggs, Manny, Ortiz in his prime, (Even Ruth). But now they have a lineup worse than Baltimore’s. I could see the Sox as a 500 team at best.

          • Zack

            .500? lets try to be fair. they’re going to battle for the WC but are not a team without question marks

            • Whitey14

              I agree with Zack that the current roster of players can battle for the Wild Card and Januz, why do you keep forgetting that Victor Martinez is the Red Sox Catcher, not Varitek?

  • Salty Buggah

    If this is for 2 years like its being reported, the Yanks have no chance for him.

  • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

    I’m going to throw this out right now: No one, absolutely no one, gives Johnny Damon a three-year deal. It’s more likely he gets a two-year with a team option.

    Anyway, I’ve made it no secret how well I think Cameron would fit here. He’d also be a very good fit with the Sox. That park caters well to his hitting strength, they love OBP, and he could put up a UZR of 100 million with the Green Monster behind him, unless they feel he’s a better asset in CF, which would be a sound strategy as well. Ellsbury would move to LF, I suppose in that case. He’s an excellent fit for them. Smart move, Sox.

    Now, for us, this certainly gives Damon some leverage back. I would really prefer them not to sacrifice flexibility by signing Holliday to a five-year deal, but I suppose I wouldn’t be greatly disappointed. Damon may end up being the most attractive option, but ONLY if it’s two years at a reasonable salary (no more than $12 per). We really should have offered him arbitration. But, oh well.

    ABSOLUTELY NO JASON BAY, UNLESS HE PAYS US TO PLAY HERE.

    • MattG

      “he could put up a UZR of 100 million with the Green Monster behind him”

      How’s that? My feeling is there isn’t enough ground in LF for either one of them to be maximized as a defensive asset.

      • JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

        I was being somewhat facetious. Sorry it was somewhat ambiguous.

    • JSquared

      I can’t express how i dislike Jason Bay, Yankees stadium has a big left field… His defense was bad in Boston… with a small Left Field and a very fast Center Fielder next to him…

      NO JASON BAY!!!!

  • JSquared

    Red Sox sign a 3rd starter who’s had injury problems the last 2 seasons, aging, and hasn’t pitched well in Fenway his whole career.

    If they give Beckett an extension… Does this mean when the Mariners can’t re-sign Felix Hernandez… All trade talks go to the Yankees?

    I’m happy they signed Lackey, i’d love to see the Yankees tee off of him more often.

    • Lanny

      Why? You can never have enough great pitching and its not like the SOx are small market.

      • JSquared

        I don’t see them having 4 highly paid pitchers on their staff. Especially when they have the most uber prospects in all of the land.

      • Hey ZZ

        Having Beckett and Lackey both on long term deals=disaster

  • Evil Empire

    Looks like everyone here is thinking the same thing I am, Holliday’s demand is going down now.

  • Drew

    Other than the fact that he doesn’t fit the white-grit Bostonian prototype, he makes a ton of sense for Boston.

    • MattG

      “Listen boy, iffen you want to play in our pahk, you’ll make your mahk on thissee here piece of paper.”

  • Rose

    Why is Cashman just sitting back watching all these other teams negotiate with perfectly good players we should be negotiating with?? (not including Lackey)

    • Drew

      Just because Cash & Co. doesn’t leak their private dealings like other clubs do does not mean he hasn’t had serious conversations with or about these players.

      • Lanny

        You ever think that they wanted nothing to do with Cameron?

        The goal is to get younger and better. Cashman has said that multiple times. How does Cameron fit with that?

        • pete

          better>younger
          cameron=better
          cameron on a short term deal and not holding any viable young options back = MUCH better
          damon would also = better, but he will probably be rather expensive.

        • http://aol Rob

          Younger and better?? Raggy’d Andy is not younger and better. He and AJ will certainly break down this year. Mitre help!!!

    • Hey ZZ

      Really what happened is Cash fell asleep and his assistant is too scared to wake him up. Really, that is what happened. He had some long nights during the winter meetings so he is taking nap right now and his assistant does not want to make him grumpy.

      He is going to wake up in a few hours to all this news and be like oh shiiiit, what happened? I had this plan, but then I fell asleep and no one woke me up so all these guys got signed and traded without me knowing.

      He is then going to call up Boras right away and say, anything you want for Damon dude. I fell asleep and missed all the action. You gotta help me out.

      If only Brian Cashman was not asleep right now. What could have been…What could haaaave been….

  • Free Mike Vicks

    Free at last…free at last…thank god almighty we are free at last.

    Hopefully this will mark the end of RAB’s obsession with Mike Cameron…

    • Lanny

      Hopefully.

      Didnt see the allure of an aging guy who strikes out too much and cant hit good pitching.

    • Hey ZZ

      I really think you may want to take another look at the definition of “free”

  • Mike bk

    i have been against holliday but with trading A-Jax and Damon wanting at least 3 years guaranteed if we could get Matt for Lackey’s deal i would seriously think about it.

  • Mike bk

    Tyler Keppner says Matsui to the halos is done.

  • A.D.

    Well Bay and Holliday’s negotiating power is dropping real quick.

    • Mike bk

      well there is the Mets, Seattle, Giants, Cards still out there. Never know about Atlanta if they can dump Lowe too. then need a RH bat and have been tied to bay a lot in the past.

      • scooter

        M’s and Mets are in for Bay – I assume Omar will get his guy. M’s could look at Holliday – but seems out of the Giants’ price range. (After dumping Garko, Giants could go for Nick Johnson at 1st and DeRosa in the OF)

        The natural thing for Atlanta – send Lowe to the Angels for Juan Rivera.

        Looks like Cards for Holliday – and that could be all. Perfect storm for Cashman to make a ninja move

  • byron

    why the f-ing angels… of all teams…
    the only thing comforting me now is this:
    http://tinyurl.com/yecowla
    at the 0:30 mark, and then again at 0:59

  • Lanny

    The market may give the Yankees Holliday on a silver platter.

    He may be a little better than Cameron. Just a touch.

    • pete

      if by silver platter you mean at least $18 mil per year for the next 4-5 years…

  • Granderslam

    How long until the Yankees and Holliday reach an agreement? Tomorrow? By the end of the week? At this point, I assume it’s inevitable.

    • nick blasioli

      lets just hope that this is the way they go…im with you on this deal…we need holiday…..

  • CrankerYanker

    who says holliday for left field now say ” I ” (shouts in the back) ” I “

  • Alan

    I have to imagine Holliday’s stock is dropping like a rock. Boston is out of the market after signing Lackey and the potential signing of Cameron.

    The Angels could use him to replace Vlad, but I imagine they’re going to look to spend on pitching now that they lost Lackey (Lowe? Sheets? Chapman?).

    St. Louis is still sitting there hoping he comes back, but they don’t have our financial muscle.

    The Metropolitans seem to be zero’ing in on Bay. Why, I have no idea. He’s an inferior player comparatively whose numbers will take a tumble moving to CitiField.

    While I’m not a huge fan of locking up a bunch of long-term contracts, if Holliday comes at a reasonable value I wouldn’t be opposed to it.

  • Spending Ca$H

    Lets go crazy now and sign Holliday and trade the top prospects away for josh johnson that should make these talks even right ?

  • Brian

    Don’t forget that Carl Crawford is a free agent next year. We know that Cash’s decisions are impacted by the following year’s free agent class….

    • Hey ZZ

      If the choice is between Holliday and Crawford. Holliday by a large margin

      • scooter

        Crawford isn’t a sure thing (TB probably tries to re-up him)

        Holliday is great – but again, at the right price. Pardon the pun, but St Louis is the wildcard – how high do they go to keep him?

        Cashman’s figuring out the options in this quickly-evolving landscape. I assume he’s committed to using the DH slot most of the time to rest older players.

        If Damon signs, then DH is split among Damon (70 games), Posada (40), ARod, Texeira, and Jeter. Damon plays LF 90 or so games. Maybe Cust gets signed as a DH/OF type. Damon at 2/20 means Cashman could try to get Sheets or Duchsherer signed as well. Hughes or Joba start out in the pen, and Cashman fills the pen out with internal options

        If they go with Holliday, then Cashman sticks with Joba and Hughes, signs a setup guy (Mike Gonzalez?), and a cheaper DH who hits lefties.

  • Wilcymoore27

    Great !! I really hope the Sawx land Cameron. That way, we won’t hear any more arguments about why the Yankees should try to sign/trade-for him. As an added bonus, he’ll play for our chief divisional rival.

    That means Cameron’s .240-.250 BA and multitude of strikeouts can torture Red Sox fans instead of Yankee fans.

    • Januz

      Mike Cameron constantly striking out in late innings, he will get killed by the Fenway Faithful. His success rate will fall somewhere between Nancy Drew and Milton Bradley. I just have never understood why everyone likes a .250 hitter who strikes out 150 times. The “Boy Genius” Epstein needs to go back to school, cause this move is right up there with John Smoltz and Brad Penny.

      • jim p

        Plus, to my memory he always fails in the clutch. This made me check his splits, and it turns out most of his damage is done when the run differential is 4 or more in a game. Never got why people thought, “oh, he’s really good.” He’s better than a lot, stats considered in a vacuum, but not in actual games. I see his going to Boston as a double-plus.

  • JobaTheHeat62

    I never once thought we would sign Matt Holliday, now it seems like its almost a lock IMO…I just don;t see another suitor outside of st louis, and from what I have read there offer was nothing short of a low ball gesture to say they offered him a deal.

  • nick blasioli

    git ur done cash…holiday all the way…

  • Mike

    Dear Ben,

    I posted a comment in Igarashi but cannot find my post there. I am staying in Japan and watch him for many years.

  • pollo

    Well this sucks.

    Cameron was our left fielder. Boston can go to hell. Welcome back JD and your -36 UzR/150.

    I’m so enraged.

    • Mike P

      Your in a rage for Cameron? Really? Not even Lackey?

    • Pasqua

      Psss. Cameron was never our left fielder.

  • theyankeewarrior

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  • Mike P

    There isn’t a single reason to worry. If the season starts tomorrow, I will vote 10 on the fan confidence poll.

    Not a single one of the Yanks’ first options is off the table. And they already made the best move of the off-season by getting Granderson. But if they want to continue watching their rivals overpay for second best options, they might just find that the best available player on the market decides he wants to win the world series.

    Long term, the Yanks have locked up the position that was going to be hardest to fill. The position they need to fill most short term just got a hell of a lot cheaper. The Sox overpaid for Lackey. Even when Cashman sleeps he wins!

  • Upstate

    I like what the Yankees are doing right now its called being PATIENT and WAITING until the market develops. Why does everyone expect everything immediately? Be patient…if I’ve learned anything over the last two years is that cash and co know what they are doing. I don’t like these Sox moves at all Lackey is a turd, cameron strikes out too much, the only one that bothers me is if they sign chapman.

    I don’t agree with bringing Holliday here…too much money and we don’t need another panic move. We have NOTHING to panic about the red sucks lineup isn’t by any means scarier. This is probably the shittest lineup they’ve had in years. The Jays appear to be losing Halladay. Things are looking up in the al east.

    I say sign sheets to a 1yr deal and bring Damon back for two. Then trade Melky for relief pitching. Thats it…offseason over get ready for 2010. Save the money for Mauer and Crawford next year…this free agent class is weak and not worth it.

  • Big Rich

    mlbtr.

    7:53pm: Mike Cameron has agreed to sign a two-year deal with Boston, the AP reports.

    ________________

    and so ends the popular…Matsui DH, Cameron LF plan.

    • Jobamania

      7:58pm: Deal is in the range of $15.5MM for two years, tweets Ken Rosenthal.

  • Jobamania

    pardon my negativity but we’re gonna have a really hard time against Beckett/lester/lackey/buchholz, dice-k

    i really hope we sign sheets.

    • Will

      I really hope you have faith in your boy Joba, Jobamania.

      • Jobamania

        i have plenty of faith but that is if everything goes right this year.

        same with hughes

    • Zack

      Isnt this the same crap we heard last year? Sox have better pitching, more depth, better pitching, more depth. Too bad 3/4 of their starters have injury histories.

    • Pasqua

      We won a championship facing the likes of all of those guys last year, albeit not on the same team. I’m not worried. For the short term, I would have been more freaked out by Halladay as a Red Sock.

      And why would Ben Sheets, who can’t stay on a mound, make you feel ANY better about the Sox signing Lackey?

  • CJ

    Sign Holliday 5 years 80 million, and Jack Cust 2 years 7 million…makes Yanks younger, cheaper, more athletic

    Jeter
    Grandy
    Tex
    Arod
    Holliday
    Posada
    Cust
    Swisher
    Cano

    • billbybob

      I’m on board for Holiday. However, I’m not interested in Jack Cust especially with other options like Delgado, or Thome still on the market.

      • billbybob

        And How sick is a 3-4-5 of Tex, A-Rod, and Holliday? That is fucking ridiculous.

    • Meat Loaf

      We’re trying to LOWER payroll. LOWER. With an L, and an OWER.

  • Phil McCracken

    Maybe Boston will deal Andrew Dice Kay. Its not like they’re on good terms with each other. He doesn’t like their training system and they don’t like him showing up to Spring Training fat.

  • jman

    gimme holliday and his sick UZR/50′s

    • Camilo Gerardo

      hellz yea companero!

  • JobaTheHeat62

    Johny Damon is a moron if he doesnt sign with the Yankees tomorrow, because it really is just a matter of time before Matt Holliday starts sniffing for an offer from the Yankees, then Johnny D will be forced to sign with SF and bat .250 and maybe hit 4 HRs

  • Bo

    Bill James Handbook not very optimistic about Mike Cameron. Predicts .237/.328/.428 season in 2010.

    Thats the guy most wanted here for LF???

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