Dec
14

Rosenthal: Sox, Cameron in ‘serious talks’

By

The headline pretty much says it all, but Ken Rosenthal just reported on Twitter that the Red Sox and Mike Cameron are engaged in “serious talks.” Yankee fans have lusted after Cameron for the last few years. He brings a power bat and great defense to the table. With this move and their earlier signing of John Lackey, the Red Sox seem out of the market for Jason Bay or Matt Holliday. Will the Yankees jump in on a left fielder who isn’t Johnny Damon?

Categories : Asides, Hot Stove League

118 Comments»

  1. AndrewYF says:

    I’m just glad Boston saved their shopping for the weak free agent class this year, instead of splurging last year.

  2. JobaJr says:

    The Sox were out of the J-Bay/Holliday market as soon as they signed Lackey.

    • Moshe Mandel says:

      Yeah, I was expecting this the second I heard about Lackey. Makes a lot of sense for them.

      • Winston Wolf says:

        With Bill James on board, you know they understand that total value is linked to runs prevented and runs created – so this is smart and short-term

        Will be interesting to see if Beltre is the next target (for 3B) OR if the Sox think they can pry AGon away from the Padres (at the cost of the Laptop Thief, Casey Kelly, and Westmoreland)

        Meanwhile I have to think Holliday starts to become affordable (with the Cards as the only competition, unless the Angels get involved)

  3. Manny + The Evil Empire says:

    The beast is now unleashed, that being us.

  4. Stevis says:

    What is such a big deal with Cameron?! Glad the Sux got Lackey instead of Doc!

    • KK says:

      Cameron is a relatively affordable outfielder who still has decent range at his advanced age. He’s also a RH bat with some power, which plays pretty well in Fenway.

      He’s pretty much a mirrored version of Johnny Damon with more defensive capability and a lower average (OBP is a bit lower, but the slugging% is the same in the end)

      Still holding out hope that the Yankees sign him and move him to left. Much rather have Cameron than Damon, honestly.

  5. Mike bk says:

    i believe i called this when the lackey news came in this afternoon.

  6. Stevis says:

    by the way the Yankees Rule!!!

    • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor says:

      So many fails on this one. Even in the Twitter age, you have done an incredible job of maximizing your fail efficiency.

      Bravo.

      • TheZack says:

        Why, because he said the Yankees rule and he’s glad the Sox got Lackey instead of Halladay? Get off your high horse.

        • JMK THE OVERSHARE's Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor says:

          It’s more a fun combo of reply fails, grammar fails in such compact form. What the heck, sure, I’ll bite: a fairly strong argument could be made that the Sox prying Halladay would be better for the Yankees in the long run. They’d no doubt have to give up some very promising prospects, increase payroll, and pay a guy big $$ for his mid-30s decline. They’d have had to extend him as well; giving up the types of prospects needed to get Roy from Toronto would be far more than the draft picks received through compensation.

          Cameron is actually a very good fit in Boston, perhaps even better a fit than in New York. It also takes off a very attractive option for us, reducing the market to blind-reach-of-faith types like Kelly Johnson and other risky, cheap players; trades for guys like DeJesus or whomever, which will also cost us a decent prospect; or lock us into a DH masquerading as a LFer (Damon); or overpay for Holliday, greatly reducing our flexibility.

          /Hi-yo, Silver, away!

          • Camilo Gerardo says:

            when you have holliday for the next ~6-7 years, do you really need flexibility? think about it. it’s not like we have any can’t miss corner outfielders in the minors

  7. Mike bk says:

    no matsui, no cameron and damon just got back a lot of leverage.

    • Mike Axisa says:

      Nope. Still other options out there.

      • Scooter says:

        With a little patience, Cashman might get some bargains – we might be surprised at who’s ‘left over’ after the feeding frenzy is done

      • Evil Empire says:

        Mike, maybe I’m being stupid here – certainly wouldn’t be the first time – but are JBay and Holiday losing leverage here with all of these moves? Especially if BoSox sign Cameron.

        Is Seattle still in the running for Bay after taking on Lee’s salary? Or is it just a fight between the Cardinals and Giants now?

        • Scooter says:

          I’m figuring Omar has already zeroed in on Bay, and will overpay

          If SF is dumb enough to go 3 years, they could land Damon

          • Evil Empire says:

            Ugh, for the sake of Damon’s HOF pursuit, I really hope he doesn’t sign with San Francisco. That stadium is like, the exact opposite of YSIII.

        • Mike Axisa says:

          Oh sure, take away a big market club like the Sox and they lose leverage. I don’t think Seattle was ever serious about Bay, they value defense too much.

          • Evil Empire says:

            The inevitable followup question:

            Obviously, fuck Jason Bay, let the Mets have him. But does Matty H possibly fall into the Yankees’ price range now?

            Are the Giants in the discussion for Matt Holliday, or is it really The Cardinals and no one else?

            • Brian Ewart says:

              How far does his price have to fall to be worth it though?

            • Brian says:

              I really wouldn’t be surprised to see the Yanks pursue Holliday, they were aggressive with Andy and Granderson, but I think they’ve been waiting to see how the market develops at each position. It seems like starting pitchers are at a much higher premium than position players this offseason, the best value may be in Holliday.

              • KK says:

                I think it’s pretty telling that there are no bidders on Holliday. His stint on the A’s proved that he can’t cut it in the AL, and he wants to be paid like he’s “Great” when he’s merely “Good” (and that’s debatable, since it’s not like he’s a defensive stud)

  8. fresh says:

    i really feel that the yankees are going to consider that damon wants 3 years and decide to just give the extra 2 to holliday. it wouldnt be blocking a of spot for austin anymore. i see damon going to the giants on a 3 yr deal with an option

  9. Mark says:

    If Cam goes to the Sox and Bay to the Mets, what is left for Holliday? The Yanks or going back to the Cards.

  10. Salty Buggah says:

    Cameron hopefully wont go to the Sox. Makes them better & might force Damon to keep his demands. Please don’t let this happen Mo. If Cammy goes, I hope we get Holliday instead of signing Damon for 2 or 3.

    • TheZack says:

      Oh come on, Cameron going to the Sox doesn’t change anything for them or the Yanks. It gives them a CF/LF rotation of Cameron, Hermida, and Jacoby. That’s not exactly scary.

      Granderson is far more of an impact than Cameron.

      And Cameron signing won’t make a bit of difference in terms of Damon.

      • Januz says:

        That outfield, plus Nancy Drew in right (Makes Swisher, Melky and Damon look like Ruth, DiMaggio and Mantle). Throw in Veritek and you have once lame hitting team. I really think Holliday is coming, to replace Damon and Matsui, If that happens the 3 biggest losers will be. 1: LA Angels. 2: Cardinals. 3: Damon. While the winners will be. 1: Yankees. 2: Seattle. Milwaukee.

        • Whitey14 says:

          I’ll take Drew over Swisher, offensively and defensively. I don’t love Cameron, but I’ll take him over Cabrera/Gardner and Ellsbury obviously isn’t as good as Granderson, but what is it about your outfield that you think makes them that much better than Boston’s?
          I would agree that if Holliday comes to replace Cabrera/Gardner it tilts toward NY, but that hasn’t happened yet.

  11. MattG says:

    Whether it be Ellsbury or Cameron, the guy in left won’t need to be three feet behind Scutaro.

    Cameron will enjoy a boost from the Monster, but unless they intend to move one of those guys to left, how are they getting the proper boost in run prevention?

    This is to say I don’t think Cameron makes sense in Boston.

  12. Brian Hickey says:

    What kind of deal do you think Holliday can command at this point?

  13. ultimate913 says:

    Haha. Now if this happens, Boras will be like “What was your offer again?”

    If this AND the Mastui deal gets done, we are in for some hard times, my friends. Anyone think the Yanks should or will pursue Holliday if this deal goes down? Will be looking for a DH on the market or do we use our own system to fill that gap?

    Things are finally starting to unfold for the Yankees.

    • Lanny says:

      Maybe they were in on Holliday from the start and thats who they want this off season.

      I think they’d rather give the younger better guy 5 yrs than the older guy 3.

    • Tampa Yankee says:

      If this AND the Mastui deal gets done, we are in for some hard times, my friends

      How? The Sox offense still blows (Ortiz, Scutaro, Taco Bellsbury, etc). The Angels lost Lackey and Figgins while Matsui is an upgrade over Vlad, it’s not enough to make up for those losses.

      • andrew says:

        Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youkilis, Martinez, Drew, Ortiz, Cameron, Scutaro, + a third basemen, possibly Beltre.

        The Sox lineup really doesn’t suck, at all. They may not incite fear into their opponents the way that Manny, Ortiz, Jim Rice, or Bernie did, but that is still a quality lineup.

        • Januz says:

          That lineup is as frightening as Casper The Friendly Ghost: Cameron, Veritek, Drew, Ellsbury and Scutaro (Off a career year). Boston almost always had at least one hitter that could terrify pitchers: Foxx, Williams, Rice, Yaz, Lynn, Boggs, Manny, Ortiz in his prime, (Even Ruth). But now they have a lineup worse than Baltimore’s. I could see the Sox as a 500 team at best.

          • Zack says:

            .500? lets try to be fair. they’re going to battle for the WC but are not a team without question marks

            • Whitey14 says:

              I agree with Zack that the current roster of players can battle for the Wild Card and Januz, why do you keep forgetting that Victor Martinez is the Red Sox Catcher, not Varitek?

  14. Salty Buggah says:

    If this is for 2 years like its being reported, the Yanks have no chance for him.

  15. JMK THE OVERSHARE's Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor says:

    I’m going to throw this out right now: No one, absolutely no one, gives Johnny Damon a three-year deal. It’s more likely he gets a two-year with a team option.

    Anyway, I’ve made it no secret how well I think Cameron would fit here. He’d also be a very good fit with the Sox. That park caters well to his hitting strength, they love OBP, and he could put up a UZR of 100 million with the Green Monster behind him, unless they feel he’s a better asset in CF, which would be a sound strategy as well. Ellsbury would move to LF, I suppose in that case. He’s an excellent fit for them. Smart move, Sox.

    Now, for us, this certainly gives Damon some leverage back. I would really prefer them not to sacrifice flexibility by signing Holliday to a five-year deal, but I suppose I wouldn’t be greatly disappointed. Damon may end up being the most attractive option, but ONLY if it’s two years at a reasonable salary (no more than $12 per). We really should have offered him arbitration. But, oh well.

    ABSOLUTELY NO JASON BAY, UNLESS HE PAYS US TO PLAY HERE.

    • MattG says:

      “he could put up a UZR of 100 million with the Green Monster behind him”

      How’s that? My feeling is there isn’t enough ground in LF for either one of them to be maximized as a defensive asset.

    • JSquared says:

      I can’t express how i dislike Jason Bay, Yankees stadium has a big left field… His defense was bad in Boston… with a small Left Field and a very fast Center Fielder next to him…

      NO JASON BAY!!!!

  16. JSquared says:

    Red Sox sign a 3rd starter who’s had injury problems the last 2 seasons, aging, and hasn’t pitched well in Fenway his whole career.

    If they give Beckett an extension… Does this mean when the Mariners can’t re-sign Felix Hernandez… All trade talks go to the Yankees?

    I’m happy they signed Lackey, i’d love to see the Yankees tee off of him more often.

  17. Evil Empire says:

    Looks like everyone here is thinking the same thing I am, Holliday’s demand is going down now.

  18. Drew says:

    Other than the fact that he doesn’t fit the white-grit Bostonian prototype, he makes a ton of sense for Boston.

  19. Rose says:

    Why is Cashman just sitting back watching all these other teams negotiate with perfectly good players we should be negotiating with?? (not including Lackey)

    • Drew says:

      Just because Cash & Co. doesn’t leak their private dealings like other clubs do does not mean he hasn’t had serious conversations with or about these players.

      • Lanny says:

        You ever think that they wanted nothing to do with Cameron?

        The goal is to get younger and better. Cashman has said that multiple times. How does Cameron fit with that?

        • pete says:

          better>younger
          cameron=better
          cameron on a short term deal and not holding any viable young options back = MUCH better
          damon would also = better, but he will probably be rather expensive.

        • Rob says:

          Younger and better?? Raggy’d Andy is not younger and better. He and AJ will certainly break down this year. Mitre help!!!

    • Hey ZZ says:

      Really what happened is Cash fell asleep and his assistant is too scared to wake him up. Really, that is what happened. He had some long nights during the winter meetings so he is taking nap right now and his assistant does not want to make him grumpy.

      He is going to wake up in a few hours to all this news and be like oh shiiiit, what happened? I had this plan, but then I fell asleep and no one woke me up so all these guys got signed and traded without me knowing.

      He is then going to call up Boras right away and say, anything you want for Damon dude. I fell asleep and missed all the action. You gotta help me out.

      If only Brian Cashman was not asleep right now. What could have been…What could haaaave been….

  20. Free Mike Vicks says:

    Free at last…free at last…thank god almighty we are free at last.

    Hopefully this will mark the end of RAB’s obsession with Mike Cameron…

  21. Mike bk says:

    i have been against holliday but with trading A-Jax and Damon wanting at least 3 years guaranteed if we could get Matt for Lackey’s deal i would seriously think about it.

  22. Mike bk says:

    Tyler Keppner says Matsui to the halos is done.

  23. A.D. says:

    Well Bay and Holliday’s negotiating power is dropping real quick.

    • Mike bk says:

      well there is the Mets, Seattle, Giants, Cards still out there. Never know about Atlanta if they can dump Lowe too. then need a RH bat and have been tied to bay a lot in the past.

      • scooter says:

        M’s and Mets are in for Bay – I assume Omar will get his guy. M’s could look at Holliday – but seems out of the Giants’ price range. (After dumping Garko, Giants could go for Nick Johnson at 1st and DeRosa in the OF)

        The natural thing for Atlanta – send Lowe to the Angels for Juan Rivera.

        Looks like Cards for Holliday – and that could be all. Perfect storm for Cashman to make a ninja move

  24. byron says:

    why the f-ing angels… of all teams…
    the only thing comforting me now is this:
    http://tinyurl.com/yecowla
    at the 0:30 mark, and then again at 0:59

  25. Lanny says:

    The market may give the Yankees Holliday on a silver platter.

    He may be a little better than Cameron. Just a touch.

  26. Granderslam says:

    How long until the Yankees and Holliday reach an agreement? Tomorrow? By the end of the week? At this point, I assume it’s inevitable.

  27. CrankerYanker says:

    who says holliday for left field now say ” I ” (shouts in the back) ” I “

  28. Alan says:

    I have to imagine Holliday’s stock is dropping like a rock. Boston is out of the market after signing Lackey and the potential signing of Cameron.

    The Angels could use him to replace Vlad, but I imagine they’re going to look to spend on pitching now that they lost Lackey (Lowe? Sheets? Chapman?).

    St. Louis is still sitting there hoping he comes back, but they don’t have our financial muscle.

    The Metropolitans seem to be zero’ing in on Bay. Why, I have no idea. He’s an inferior player comparatively whose numbers will take a tumble moving to CitiField.

    While I’m not a huge fan of locking up a bunch of long-term contracts, if Holliday comes at a reasonable value I wouldn’t be opposed to it.

  29. Spending Ca$H says:

    Lets go crazy now and sign Holliday and trade the top prospects away for josh johnson that should make these talks even right ?

  30. Brian says:

    Don’t forget that Carl Crawford is a free agent next year. We know that Cash’s decisions are impacted by the following year’s free agent class….

    • Hey ZZ says:

      If the choice is between Holliday and Crawford. Holliday by a large margin

      • scooter says:

        Crawford isn’t a sure thing (TB probably tries to re-up him)

        Holliday is great – but again, at the right price. Pardon the pun, but St Louis is the wildcard – how high do they go to keep him?

        Cashman’s figuring out the options in this quickly-evolving landscape. I assume he’s committed to using the DH slot most of the time to rest older players.

        If Damon signs, then DH is split among Damon (70 games), Posada (40), ARod, Texeira, and Jeter. Damon plays LF 90 or so games. Maybe Cust gets signed as a DH/OF type. Damon at 2/20 means Cashman could try to get Sheets or Duchsherer signed as well. Hughes or Joba start out in the pen, and Cashman fills the pen out with internal options

        If they go with Holliday, then Cashman sticks with Joba and Hughes, signs a setup guy (Mike Gonzalez?), and a cheaper DH who hits lefties.

  31. Wilcymoore27 says:

    Great !! I really hope the Sawx land Cameron. That way, we won’t hear any more arguments about why the Yankees should try to sign/trade-for him. As an added bonus, he’ll play for our chief divisional rival.

    That means Cameron’s .240-.250 BA and multitude of strikeouts can torture Red Sox fans instead of Yankee fans.

    • Januz says:

      Mike Cameron constantly striking out in late innings, he will get killed by the Fenway Faithful. His success rate will fall somewhere between Nancy Drew and Milton Bradley. I just have never understood why everyone likes a .250 hitter who strikes out 150 times. The “Boy Genius” Epstein needs to go back to school, cause this move is right up there with John Smoltz and Brad Penny.

      • jim p says:

        Plus, to my memory he always fails in the clutch. This made me check his splits, and it turns out most of his damage is done when the run differential is 4 or more in a game. Never got why people thought, “oh, he’s really good.” He’s better than a lot, stats considered in a vacuum, but not in actual games. I see his going to Boston as a double-plus.

  32. JobaTheHeat62 says:

    I never once thought we would sign Matt Holliday, now it seems like its almost a lock IMO…I just don;t see another suitor outside of st louis, and from what I have read there offer was nothing short of a low ball gesture to say they offered him a deal.

  33. nick blasioli says:

    git ur done cash…holiday all the way…

  34. Mike says:

    Dear Ben,

    I posted a comment in Igarashi but cannot find my post there. I am staying in Japan and watch him for many years.

  35. pollo says:

    Well this sucks.

    Cameron was our left fielder. Boston can go to hell. Welcome back JD and your -36 UzR/150.

    I’m so enraged.

  36. theyankeewarrior says:

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  37. Mike P says:

    There isn’t a single reason to worry. If the season starts tomorrow, I will vote 10 on the fan confidence poll.

    Not a single one of the Yanks’ first options is off the table. And they already made the best move of the off-season by getting Granderson. But if they want to continue watching their rivals overpay for second best options, they might just find that the best available player on the market decides he wants to win the world series.

    Long term, the Yanks have locked up the position that was going to be hardest to fill. The position they need to fill most short term just got a hell of a lot cheaper. The Sox overpaid for Lackey. Even when Cashman sleeps he wins!

  38. Upstate says:

    I like what the Yankees are doing right now its called being PATIENT and WAITING until the market develops. Why does everyone expect everything immediately? Be patient…if I’ve learned anything over the last two years is that cash and co know what they are doing. I don’t like these Sox moves at all Lackey is a turd, cameron strikes out too much, the only one that bothers me is if they sign chapman.

    I don’t agree with bringing Holliday here…too much money and we don’t need another panic move. We have NOTHING to panic about the red sucks lineup isn’t by any means scarier. This is probably the shittest lineup they’ve had in years. The Jays appear to be losing Halladay. Things are looking up in the al east.

    I say sign sheets to a 1yr deal and bring Damon back for two. Then trade Melky for relief pitching. Thats it…offseason over get ready for 2010. Save the money for Mauer and Crawford next year…this free agent class is weak and not worth it.

  39. Big Rich says:

    mlbtr.

    7:53pm: Mike Cameron has agreed to sign a two-year deal with Boston, the AP reports.

    ________________

    and so ends the popular…Matsui DH, Cameron LF plan.

  40. Jobamania says:

    pardon my negativity but we’re gonna have a really hard time against Beckett/lester/lackey/buchholz, dice-k

    i really hope we sign sheets.

    • Will says:

      I really hope you have faith in your boy Joba, Jobamania.

    • Zack says:

      Isnt this the same crap we heard last year? Sox have better pitching, more depth, better pitching, more depth. Too bad 3/4 of their starters have injury histories.

    • Pasqua says:

      We won a championship facing the likes of all of those guys last year, albeit not on the same team. I’m not worried. For the short term, I would have been more freaked out by Halladay as a Red Sock.

      And why would Ben Sheets, who can’t stay on a mound, make you feel ANY better about the Sox signing Lackey?

  41. CJ says:

    Sign Holliday 5 years 80 million, and Jack Cust 2 years 7 million…makes Yanks younger, cheaper, more athletic

    Jeter
    Grandy
    Tex
    Arod
    Holliday
    Posada
    Cust
    Swisher
    Cano

  42. Phil McCracken says:

    Maybe Boston will deal Andrew Dice Kay. Its not like they’re on good terms with each other. He doesn’t like their training system and they don’t like him showing up to Spring Training fat.

  43. jman says:

    gimme holliday and his sick UZR/50′s

  44. JobaTheHeat62 says:

    Johny Damon is a moron if he doesnt sign with the Yankees tomorrow, because it really is just a matter of time before Matt Holliday starts sniffing for an offer from the Yankees, then Johnny D will be forced to sign with SF and bat .250 and maybe hit 4 HRs

  45. Bo says:

    Bill James Handbook not very optimistic about Mike Cameron. Predicts .237/.328/.428 season in 2010.

    Thats the guy most wanted here for LF???

  46. [...] Yankees’ left field options got a bit thinner yesterday when the Red Sox signed Mike Cameron. It didn’t appear the Yanks were too concerned with Cameron, however, as Johnny Damon has [...]

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