Dec
15

The stove gets hotter with updates on Sheets, Holliday, and Bay

By

The Red Sox struck yesterday, landing both John Lackey and Mike Cameron. How will the Yankees react? In short, they won’t. They might have to alter their plans, given yesterday’s activity, but they’re not going to make some huge signing just to keep up with the Red Sox. They did, after all, bring in a new center fielder last week. In the torrid pace of the hot stove we can lose sight of that.

We kicked off today with a question: which outfielder would you want under current circumstances: Holliday for eight years, Bay for five, Damon for three, or Melky for one. As happens frequently during the off-season, those circumstances have changed. One option appears all but eliminated, and another seems at least a little more attractive.

According to three reporters — Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports and Mark Feinsand of the Daily News — the Yankees have no interest in Jason Bay. Last night’s report that the Yankees had reached out to Bay’s agents was just another routine hot stove item. We shouldn’t have expected otherwise. Bay seems adamant about a five-year deal, and reportedly has one on the table.

That development brings the options down to three, though one of them got at least a little more attractive. According to ESPN’s Buster Olney, reports of an eight-year offer to Holliday might not be true. He hears that the Cardinals will “stand on a five-year offer,” though they could alter it a bit. Then again, there aren’t many teams in on Holliday, so we could certainly see St. Louis stay at five years. Sources also tell Olney that they “cannot foresee a situation” in which the Yankees bid on Holliday. I wouldn’t be so sure of that, especially if they’re talking about a five-year deal.

Finally, Ken Rosenthal hears that the Yankees are “very interested” in Ben Sheets. That’s good news. He’s a high-risk arm, but he could be fresh after missing all of 2009 with a torn flexor tendon in his right elbow. While any arm injury should give teams pause, Sheets’s case might not be severe. Andy Pettitte underwent the same procedure at the end of the 2004 season, and came back with perhaps the best year of his career in 2005.

There is, of course, the issue of money, and as we’ve discussed before Sheets is looking for about $12 million. It’s doubtful any team guarantees him that much, so it could come down to the team that puts together the best incentives package. Even with that, it could take $8 million guaranteed to sign Sheets. For a team in the Yankees position, that might be worth it.

Categories : Hot Stove League

252 Comments»

  1. Bob Stone says:

    Is no news good news at this point?

  2. Tampa Yankee says:

    Per MLBTR:

    “2:24pm: Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News hears that the Yankees have no interest in signing Bay long-term. They don’t have confidence in his ability to play the outfield in a few years.”

    See… Cash-$ knows what he is doing!

  3. Doug says:

    “I wouldn’t be so sure of that, especially if they’re talking about a five-year deal.”

    Well, things can change but as per MLBTR:

    “2:35pm: Another source tells ESPN.com’s Buster Olney that there’s no chance the Yankees bid on Bay or Matt Holliday.”

  4. TheZack says:

    I see absolutely no reason not to seriously pursue Sheets at this point. With Andy signed, they can really afford a high upside, incentive driven contract. But I also wouldn’t be heartbroken or surprised if they didn’t. I guess it comes down to if they sign Damon or not.

    • KK says:

      I don’t trust Sheets at all. For his career, he gives up around a HR per game in Milwaukee. Move that to Yankee Stadium, and things could get ugly.

      I’d prefer they go after Duscherer.

      But that’s all contingent on how much they pay him and how the incentives are scaled (better not put in anything unless he pitches at least 150 innings, or you’re getting shafted). With a contract that’s incentive laden, even Kelvim Escobar starts to look good.

  5. Granderslam says:

    Maybe Cash is planning a big trade

  6. DH=Dime a dozen says:

    Any updates on The Carl Crawford Tampa extension talks? bec if he signs an extension with them then I’m all for Holliday for 5 years. I was under the assumption that the left field spot would be filled with a one yr stop gap kind of guy until our coveted prize becomes available…..

    • Mike bk says:

      with the phils just inking Roy for 20 mil per, having to do Ryan Howard, and Dom Brown possibly being ready maybe Werth becomes expendable next offseason when he is a FA.

      • Camilo Gerardo says:

        good point. one of ibanez/halladay/someone-else was a bad move if that means they can’t keep werth for a team-friendly deal at the end

    • Chris says:

      The problem with Crawford is that he won’t be that much cheaper than Holliday (at least I assume he won’t), and yet he’s significantly worse.

      • DH=Dime a dozen says:

        Chris,
        Crawford is NOT significantly worse. He is better.He is better at all facets of the game.

        • JobaWockeeZ says:

          Crawford’s defense is much more superior than Holliday’s though Holliday’s bat is better.

        • “He is better at all facets of the game.”

          Career slashes:

          Holliday: .318/.387/.545
          Crawford: .295/.335/.437

          Crawford is better on the basepaths and defensively. Holliday is much better with the bat, and it’s not even very close.

          • Agreed.

            Caveat: Holliday’s numbers look all the more better thanks to some cozy home park effects. I do think he’s better than Crawford. I don’t think he’s quite as better as those numbers would so overwhelmingly indicate.

          • DH=Dime a dozen says:

            Like TSJC said bellow, Coors field helped those numbers. I still rather Crawford

            • Yes, Coors Field helped those numbers. He’s still probably better than Crawford is, though.

            • Holliday in 2009:

              .313/.394/.515
              139 OPS+
              5.7 WAR

              … 0 home games in Coors Field.

              Carl Crawford will never put up a slash line like that, not even in the best year of his career.

              Coors helped Holliday’s numbers, but he’s still a better hitter than Crawford. You can like Crawford, that’s your call, but your statement that he’s better in all facets of the game than Holliday is just false. Let’s just admit that and move on.

              • DH=Dime a dozen says:

                Kind of Sold.
                After seeing the WAR and all of these stats. I’m starting to question why were not in on Holliday ?

                • Money/Years and roster flexibility concerns. It’s not because the guy can’t hit.

                • DH=Dime a dozen says:

                  but if he is a franchise type player that doesnt come onto the market every so often, aren’t you cutting your nose despiting your face by using the “roster flexibility” reason here?

                • Maybe. That’s why Cashman gets paid the big bucks.

                  Keep in mind that the Yankees can’t sign every franchise type player that hits the market. They have to pick and choose the right ones to give those contracts to.

                  (Not that I think Holliday is a “franchise type” player… He’s very good, but he’s not on that level, and he’s not on the level at which he wants to be paid.)

                • DH=Dime a dozen says:

                  “(Not that I think Holliday is a “franchise type” player… He’s very good, but he’s not on that level, and he’s not on the level at which he wants to be paid.)”

                  This means your saying that CRAWFORD isnt a franchise player. Because your agreeing Holliday is better than Him.
                  I dont want you to be on the Crawford bandwagon IF hes available next yr…

                • Mondesi, to my knowledge, is firmly NOT on the Crawford bandwagon. If he ever was, he left long ago.

                • DH=Dime a dozen says:

                  Fair enough

                • “This means your saying that CRAWFORD isnt a franchise player. Because your agreeing Holliday is better than Him.”

                  Crawford is not a franchise-type player, either. Does anyone actually think Carl Crawford is a franchise-type player? I really don’t think so (and if they do, they’re very wrong).

                  And, to be accurate, I never said (and I was careful to point this out, above) that Holliday’s a better all-around player than Crawford (though he probably is). I’ve just been talking about their hit skills. Be careful not to mischaracterize the arguments written on the page.

                  “I dont want you to be on the Crawford bandwagon IF hes available next yr…IF hes available next yr…”

                  My saying that Crawford isn’t a franchise-type player, and/or that he’s not as good a hitter as Matt Holliday, has absolutely nothing to do with whether I’ll want the Yankees to sign him next year. If the Yankees have the need, and he’s available, and they can get him on a reasonable contract, I don’t see why my not thinking he’s a franchise type player or thinking Matt Holliday is the better hitter would mean that I wouldn’t want the Yankees to sign him.

                • Also, regarding whether I’m on the Crawford bandwagon or not or anything like that… I just want to make it clear, as I’ve said here in the past, that I’m not necessarily against the Yankees signing Crawford… If, like I said above, they have the need, he’s available, and he can be had on a reasonable contract. I like to look at Crawford with an eye towards what he actually is (beyond the uninformed hype) and what he’ll actually take to sign next year, if he’s available… But that doesn’t mean I don’t want the guy on the Yankees. Like with virtually any player in the game, if the Yanks have a need and a player fills that need and can be had on a good contract, of course I want that guy on the team.

                  You’ll just have to take my word on this, but I’ve actually long been a pretty big Crawford fan. I saw him play live in Tampa in 2002 and instantly became a fan, and I’ve cheered for the guy and coveted him for a long time. I don’t think of myself as anti-Crawford in any way. I think of myself as pro-careful consideration.

                • DH=Dime a dozen says:

                  Mondesi,
                  Gun to your head, who would you rather roaming left field for the next 6 years in the bronx for “franchise player” type money? Crawford Or Holliday???and please dont say neither

                • If I have to choose one of the two guys, for the same amount of money, it’s Holliday.

                  That doesn’t really mean anything, since it’s a completely made-up and unrealistic scenario, but that’s the answer. I’d be surprised if many people disagreed. For the same amount of money, Holliday’s the clear choice.

                • DH=Dime a dozen says:

                  I based my question on this statement of yours

                  “Like with virtually any player in the game, if the Yanks have a need and a player fills that need and can be had on a good contract, of course I want that guy on the team.”

                  Bec right now the Yankees indeed have a void to fill in Left

                • But your hypothetical has absolutely nothing to do with the reality the Yankees are facing right now. I’m not sure how your question has anything to do with the decision whether to pursue Holliday right now.

                  I’m not saying the Yankees have to be 100% reactionary and fill every need with the player who is available at the time that need happens to arise. Don’t be ridiculous. Part of what goes into those “if the Yankees have a need” and “if the player fills that need” considerations is who the guy is, his age, how much money he’ll take, how much money the Yanks have on their payroll already, who else is on the roster, and a million other considerations. I’m clearly not saying that since the Yankees could use an upgrade in LF that they absolutely have to sign the best player available at this very moment.

                • DH=Dime a dozen says:

                  My question was Hypothetical. I was just asking it to get a gage on which player you would prefer…And I got an answer.
                  But My question is semi valid. If the Yanx Stick it out with Melky this yr and go hard after crawford next yr. or they could just sign Holliday Now.

                • DH=Dime a dozen says:

                  anyway, Gotta run. Ill continue this discussion with you tomorrow….

                • BUT FOR DIFFERENT CONTRACTS.

                  In a vacuum, who’s the better player? Holliday. That doesn’t mean the Yankees have to sign him right now or that they’d be wise to. They might be, but they might not be – there are a million different angles and considerations involved in these decisions. You need to just slow down for a minute and think this stuff through a little more carefully.

                • No need to continue the conversation tomorrow, it has run its course.

                • dan says:

                  I am just curious. If you say that Holliday is not a franchise type player, how exactly do you define one?

                  I mean, yes, we can talk about the NL west being soft, etc, etc, but lets consider the fact that he hit .340 one year with 50 doubles and 36 hrs, and his ops was over 1.000

                  Those are great numbers. His numbers did not fall off a whole lot when changing teams as well.

                  Let’s consider his strong points. He can hit for average… which some of the newer additions in the lineup can’t (Swisher, Granderson, etc.) He plays defense (something Damon has not been able to do for several years), he consistently has an OBP at or near .400 and has slugged over .500.

                  If this is not a franchise player… how would you define one. He does things better than Jeter. He does things better than Damon and Posada… is Jeter a “franchise type player?” If you say… oh, he has intangibles, then are you not falling into a very hypocritical ground? Holliday is a baseball man, a baseball mind, from a baseball background… what more do you want?

              • DH=Dime a dozen says:

                Oh btw, I admit Holiday is a better hitter. I should not have said that before actually breaking down the numbers.

                /Bizaro Mike Francesa

          • KK says:

            At some point, you can have too many lefty power hitters. When you need to start grinding out runs to wear out pitchers, it’s a pain in the butt when everyone you’ve got is swinging for the fences.

            Well, maybe not, but you have to admit, it’s not all that exciting to have a team of 7 lefty power hitters, + ARod and Jeter…

            • dan says:

              good thing Tex, Posada and the Melk man are switch hitters… I see your point, but there is a lot of versatility, and advantage to having a balance of L/R… one more of either wouldn’t tip the balance in my humble opinion.

              • KK says:

                XD Calling Melky a switch hitter is like calling Jeter a switch hitter though. Just ‘cuz you can stand in the opposite box, doesn’t mean you should.

                Posada and Tex also both display a preferential side – Posada hits power much better from the left, and Tex has a higher avg. as a righty. Neither is as pronounced as the dropoff that Melky has when he bats righty.

                Not sure how much of this is affected by Yankee Stadium’s short left porch, but it’s not isolated to just this year either.

  7. Mike bk says:

    well if buster olney reporting on holliday is good for refuting the 8 and making it 5 then it means we arent in on Matt or Bay at all.

    “Another source tells ESPN.com’s Buster Olney that there’s no chance the Yankees bid on Bay or Matt Holliday.”

  8. Omg!Zombies! says:

    I wished the Yankees singed Matusi for another year as a primary DH and that would have made up for the Melky average bat in LF.

    • KK says:

      This is a fact. Cashman’s dragging of his feet and trying to sign Damon instead is a bit incomprehensible. Rotating DH is fine in theory only if you have a legit utility player off the bench that deserves time to play in the field.

      If they end up with Miguel Cairo again, I’m gonna start to throw stuff at my monitor.

  9. Jordan - Anybody But Melky 2010 says:

    Johnny Damon, Marlon Byrd, David DeJesus or Brett Gardner.

    Just no Melky.

    • pete says:

      eh, i could tolerate melky if we got a legit dh. that’d make our lineup basically the same as last year. getting much better offense out of center makes having a big bat in left more important.

      • Mike bk says:

        i think u mean less.

      • Jordan - Anybody But Melky 2010 says:

        Buy why settle for replacement level production in LF when you can have above average production there for a contract that is affordable?

        IMO, the whole point of getting a Curtis Granderson is to play him in CF, not to shift your already not good at baseball CF to LF and inch his defensive value up while his replacement level bat stays in the lineup.

        Will the team survive if Melky is the Opening Day LF? Sure. We know what happened with Melky in CF in 2009. But why not maximize Granderson’s value in CF and either stay status quo in LF with Damon or shift Damon to DH and put a capable above average 2-way player in LF?

        • J says:

          Not sure what you are talking about? He is saying Granderson in CF, Melky in left. What LF are you talking about exactly, that will be above average and affordable?

        • Mike HC says:

          Absolutely. I guess the only reason not to do this is if the Yanks truly do have a hard salary limit this year, and will not spend the money to upgrade leftfield. If they are willing to spend, then getting someone better than Melky is a no brainer.

        • Zack says:

          Serious question: What LF on the market is above average and affordable?

          • Jordan - Anybody But Melky 2010 says:

            DeJesus and to a lesser extent Byrd.

            • Zack says:

              DeJesus is going to cost you something, Royals have no reason to move him for just Gardner or something.

              Scroll down for further info on Byrd outside of Arlington.

              • DeJesus is going to cost you something, Royals have no reason to move him for just Gardner or something.

                Agreed wholeheartedly.

                Caveat: The Royals are dumb. Like, really dumb.

                • Jordan - Anybody But Melky 2010 says:

                  Yeah, have you guys heard of Dayton Moore? I mean really, it’s hard to argue they won’t just make a deal for the sake of doing it.

                  Dayton: “ZOMGZ!!A PHONE CALL!” ::picks up:: HELLO!?!?! WHOS THERE?!

                  Kenny Williams: “I’ll give you Jhonny Nunez for Grienke and of course Joey Gathright”

                  Dayton: “OMG!! YESS!! YESS!!! FAX ME PLEASE!!”

                  Kenny: “JUST KIDDING BUDDY!!!, but seriously what can I get for Gathright?!”

                  Dayton: “Ohhhh” ::sadface::

        • But why not maximize Granderson’s value in CF and either stay status quo in LF with Damon or shift Damon to DH and put a capable above average 2-way player in LF?

          Because

          A) we have no interest in signing two more position players and adding them to our payroll
          B) Melky/Gardner is serviceable enough that if we can get a DH who can play LF on occasion, like, say, Johnny Damon, we can play Melky/Granderson/Swish with Damon at DH and get good production, then move Damon to LF on occasion and go with Damon/Granderson/Swisher with Posada/ARod/Jeter at DH and keep the old guys fresh.

          • Jordan - Anybody But Melky 2010 says:

            I don’t buy that whole keep old guys fresh nonsense.

            If Johnny is the primary DH, he’ll only play about 140 games anyway, not all at DH, but presumably about 120 of them. Therefore A-Rod, Posada, and the occasional Jeter rest day will happen regardless. Girardi will manage to give those guys a day/half day regardless of who the DH is.

            Personally and preferably now I’d like Damon in LF again and Delgado/Thome/Dye/etc. at DH, rotating Gardner/Hoffman in and out when necessary.

            I can’t take another .5 win season out of a starting player anymore while year after year hearing he’s going to turn into #51.

            • I don’t buy that whole keep old guys fresh nonsense.

              I don’t really buy it either, but the Yankees apparently do. And, it’s not the solution I want, but it’s also far from the worst idea in the world.

              I can’t take another .5 win season out of a starting player anymore while year after year hearing he’s going to turn into #51.

              So, is it that you don’t like Melky, or that you don’t like Melky because people told you he was going to be Bernie Williams? Because the latter is a poor reason for not liking someone, IMO. Melky should be judged against himself, not against the contrived idea that he should be the next Bernie.

              • Jordan - Anybody But Melky 2010 says:

                Sort of both.

                I can’t stand the Bernie comparisons because they’re just stupid. I’m sure a ton of mediocre young players could be similarly compared to Hall of Great players, or even HOFers, through age 25.

                I also don’t like Melky because I feel Gardner is better. Gardner is still SSS worthy as far as analysis, but in his SSS he has added the same amount of value as Melky has in over twice the service time.

                I think that’s what it comes down to. Melky doesn’t add consistent value to this team at a level I personally deem acceptable. If others in the RAB community do, that’s up to them. Maybe they love Leche and think his handful of clutch hits and silly interviews are great, but I think the team can do better.

                And overall, to nab Granderson and not take full advantage is a lost opportunity.

                • Jordan - Anybody But Melky 2010 says:

                  Oh, and Mary Carey is just shameful.

                • I can’t stand the Bernie comparisons because they’re just stupid.

                  Then ignore them. Don’t let them make you hate Melky, though. That’s not fair to him.

                  I think that’s what it comes down to. Melky doesn’t add consistent value to this team at a level I personally deem acceptable. If others in the RAB community do, that’s up to them. Maybe they love Leche and think his handful of clutch hits and silly interviews are great, but I think the team can do better.

                  I agree. That doesn’t mean we should sign Marlon Byrd or trade for David DeJesus, though. I share your sentiment that Melky is a spot we should upgrade and I want him on the bench and not in the starting lineup, but if we decided to roll with him starting for a year because we didn’t like any of the alternatives and wanted to kick the can down the road, I can understand and respect that strategy.

                • dan says:

                  why would we sign Byrd or Dejesus? I guess I don’t understand everyone out there who is talking about Byrd and Dejesus as options over Melky. Byrd is 7 years older, dejesus is 5 years older, and they really have never been big producers. Melky continues to stay an average level producer, who is young and presumably improving… who still costs much less. Melk can occasionally hit very good pitchers… maybe not consistently but sometimes he strokes pretty big hits.

                  I also like Gardy, especially with his speed… so I guess, if it’s not Holliday or high profile, then why bother signing? Serviceable in house is better than serviceable outside hire, IMO.

          • Drew says:

            But Melky’s OPS+ was only 99 last year. No Yankee should ever be below the 100 ops+ mark.

    • Jordan – Anybody But Melky 2010 says:
      Johnny Damon, Marlon Byrd, David DeJesus or Brett Gardner.
      Just no Melky.

      Take Marlon Byrd out of The Ballpark at Arlington and, what do you have?

      Melky Cabrera, that’s what.

      Melky, career: 2148 PA, .269/.331/.385
      Marlon Byrd, road split, career: 1496 PA, .272/.322/.393

      • Zack says:

        Wait, are Home/Away splits considered “advance stats”? Because if so I’m not allowed to look at them.

      • Jordan - Anybody But Melky 2010 says:

        Yeah, I know. I just don’t want Melky Cabrera in this OF anymore.

        • Steve H says:

          So you want to replace him with someone who isn’t any better, isn’t a switch hitter, and is a worse fielder?

          • Jordan - Anybody But Melky 2010 says:

            He’s not a worse fielder. And I don’t care if he bats with his feet if he can hit the ball better than Melky, which has been established probably would only be marginally better out of a Rangers uniform.

        • I respect your opinion. It’s valid and well formed.

          I was merely saying that you should remove Byrd from your list of Melky replacements, because all he’s going to be is an older, more expensive version of the same average-to-slightly-below-average play you’ve been loathing from Melky over these past 4 years.

          Damon and DeJesus: better than Melky
          Gardner: better than Melky (maybe)
          Byrd: worse than Melky (due to cost)

          • Jordan - Anybody But Melky 2010 says:

            Yeah, I was grasping for straws via Byrd. I scanned the 3 year avg WAR values and just took anyone who was available higher than 2.3 WAR total.

            I mean, Colby Rasmus and Chris Coughlan have contributed as much as Melky so far.

            Kenny Lofton has been worth more over the past 3 years.

    • Drew says:

      Worst.
      Name.
      Ever.

  10. Mike bk says:

    no mention of the Chapman workout in a hot-stove/rumors thread?

    • KK says:

      He pitched at around 93mph for most of the day, topped off at 97 (impressive, but that’s not the 102 they were talking about).

      Seems like the scouts are speculating that he’s a bit better than expected, somewhere in the $24 million range. He should slot into triple-A when signed, with an outside shot at making the major league roster (depending on what team he ends up on). Probably worth the risk, if you have cash to spend.

      http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....;type=lgns

  11. DP says:

    “You can turn left, you can turn right, you can look up and down and you’ve got a DH sitting right there begging for a job,” Cashman said last week. “The DH market, you’ve got opportunity there. You should be able to take advantage of that if you’re a club.”

  12. lebigyank says:

    id love it if we got vlad, maybe a change of scenery reinvigorates a natural born killer swing plus i dont think hed have trouble coping with high expectations. and id love it if we signed sheets but only if its to a fair contract (possibly incentive laden but it doesn’t have to be)

    but even if cash doesn’t pursue any of these options i am confident with the team we have as of this minute.

    • Mike HC says:

      I seem to remember that Cashman wanted Vlad when he was last a free agent, but Steinbrenner and the Tampa contingent overruled him decided to sign Shiefield instead.

      Vlad today is clearly much different than Vlad of awhile back, but maybe Cashman still likes him at a one year deal. Payback for the Angels taking Matsui.

      • lebigyank says:

        yea that always stuck with me too, though of course many years have passed and who knows if he is still interested but like you said i think a one year deal is something cash could dig. of course itd be sweet to poke the angels in the eyes with it as well, see which of the two produces more.

        • Mike HC says:

          Yea. A battle of whose knees can hang by a thread for the longest.

        • KK says:

          So, the Angels ditch him and sign Matsui instead (apparently they see this as an upgrade) and to “get back at them” the Yankees are going to sign their dregs?

          Yeah, I’m thinking Vladdy may not be as productive as Matsui. His average is a bit higher, but all his power has mysteriously vanished. His mechanics make me think he’s gonna throw out his back halfway through the season, too…

      • True.

        I’d rather pay back the Angels by just signing Damon, Delgado, Thome, or Dye, though, since they’re all probably better options than the Ghost of Vlad Guerrero.

      • J says:

        Maybe I am alone in this belief, but I don’t know why people believe Vlad will suddenly get his groove back. That man’s swing plus playing on that turf in Montreal, along with the lack of discipline at the plate screamed of a drastic fall off eventually. His bat speed has severely decreased; I don’t know that he improves.

        • Mike HC says:

          He slugged .498 post all star break last year with an .845 OPS, and slugged slugged .521 and OPS .886 in 2008.

          I’m not saying he is the best option and as Ridic Ups wrote above, there are other very good hitters out there. But, it seems reasonable to assume that Vlad will have a better year than last year if he DH’s all year and has enough rest.

        • lebigyank says:

          i think if you surround him with cold blooded assassin bats like teix arod’s you have a decent shot at him possibly feeling it again. i mean hes no sure thing which probably played into the angels decision but i like the risk considering the potential there. and i dont see anything left out there at a decent price (not holliday stratosphere) to be a sure thing anyway so why not, better than delgado right?

        • dan says:

          Vlad the impaler is one of those freak of nature talents that I’ve always loved. He is at the end of his career, but I agree that if he DH’s he has the potential to be a very effective hitter. Not at $8 million plus, but I wouldn’t mind a deal like the one Matsui has just signed to snap up Vlad and DH him. His lack of discipline has to do with the fact that he can hit just about anything that is thrown to him. I remember seeing him stroke a hit out of a bouncing ball once… I guess he may have lost some bat speed, but not to dip his average much under .300.

          I would also like to see Dye in pinstripes. a pretty solid talent as well. He is old, but you could actually put him in the field, where with Vlad maybe you couldn’t. Just not for too much money.

      • Zack says:

        “Payback for the Angels taking Matsui.”

        Since Angels have no room for Vlad dont really see how that’s payback. The Angels lost their #1 starter, starting 3B and are looking to play Matsui in the OF, all while Texas will improve due to their young pitching maturing and Seattle improving a lot- they’re digging their own grave Cash doesnt need to help them.

      • steve s says:

        Absolutely go after Vlad. This notion mentioned in other posts today that Vlad can’t hit lefties is based on just last year which was simply an aberration compared to the rest of his career. Go get him and Sheets and you are done and payroll is under $200M. Even playing hurt he was the last guy I wanted to see up in the Angel playoff series with men on base.

      • tim randle says:

        payback would be finding a way to make the angels KEEP vlad :)

  13. J says:

    I would give 10 million guaranteed to Sheets if that’s what it took. With Harden and Penny getting paid much more then most thought (at least on Penny), Sheets will get the money. Better to pay it first and get him then wait and risk not getting him IMO.

    • C. Roy says:

      He might not get as much as the season inches closer.

      • J says:

        True, but when Brad Penny gets 7.5 million with another 1.5 if he throws 204 innings, Sheets value goes up. Maybe they can use the fact that he missed all of last year, but someone will sign him for what he wants. A one year deal is well worth the risk, especially with the draft picks that come along with a good, healthy season.

    • Zack says:

      Atleast those 2 pitchers pitched last year; Sheets hasnt pitched since September 2008

  14. A.D. says:

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....capps.html

    The Mets are interested, according to Anthony DiComo of MLB.com. Kinzer tells Crasnick that 16 teams have inquired on Capps and four of them see him as a closer. The Cards aren’t interested, but the Pirates still are.

    Yanks bring in Capps to close, and then can use Mo in the higher leverage situations that occur in the 7th & 8th.

    BOOOM

  15. Jordan - Anybody But Melky 2010 says:

    So you get where I am coming from, Vlad Guerrero is my favorite non-Yankee player. He’s just so much fun to watch at the plate, and when his body wasn’t that of a 72 year old, he was awesome to watch in RF too, especially that gun he had.

    But he’s not the answer. If you take a look at his numbers, his wRC+ and ISoP took a hit last year and haven’t been the same since around 2005-2006. His peripheral stats have remained consistent, leading me to believe that he’s just slowing down.

    Would he be a servicable DH, probably, but he’s definitely not the best option.

  16. Hughesus Cristo says:

    Ben Sheets nervouses me. Even if he weren’t injury prone, he’s making the NL to AL move. I can never be confident in that situation.

    • J says:

      Schilling, Pedro, Beckett, Burnett just to name a few. I am not suggesting that Sheets is as good as Pedro or Schilling, but I think he can do what Burnett did.

    • Andy in Sunny Daytona says:

      True when AL Cy Young winners got to the NL, they flat out dominate.

      /Barry Zito’d

    • A.D. says:

      Well he’s a power pitcher with some pretty dominating stuff. When you see the transition with lesser stuff guys, or guy who pitch more to contact then there is far more worry.

    • he’s making the NL to AL move. I can never be confident in that situation.

      I believe we’ve addressed this.

      Good NL ace-level power pitchers who strike guys out and limit walks during their NL careers tend to do just fine with the NL-AL conversion. It’s the soft-tossing control guys who pitch to contact with weaker lineups and bigger parks who tend to crumble. Not good FIP guys like Sheets.

      See also: Pedro Martinez, Josh Beckett, Curt Schilling, A.J. Burnett. Sheets will be just fine.

      • Hughesus Cristo says:

        Sheets also hasn’t been “Ben Sheets” since he had a 240 inning season six years ago. Persistent durability issues, BBs up, Ks down, etc. Now, one can argue that his numbers suffered because of the durability issues, but that’s not exactly a green flag. It’ snot worth it if he’s going to demand big guaranteed money for an extended amount of time.

        • Ben Sheets, post 2004:

          94 starts, 602 IP, 126 ERA+ (3.45), 7.8 K/9, 1.8 BB/9, 4.34 K/BB

          Non “Ben Sheets” Ben Sheets: still an elite pitcher

        • JobaWockeeZ says:

          Well he’s not going to get 12 million he’s demanding and I doubt he’ll get a second year. It’s worth a shot. And the contract will likely be heavy incentive based so it lessens the risk.

        • A.D. says:

          It’ snot worth it if he’s going to demand big guaranteed money for an extended amount of time.

          Agreed, and most pro-Sheets people would probably agree with you on this. I don’t think anyone is advocating shelling out a bunch of years & money to sheets. What they are saying is give him the 12M or whatever guaranteed this year, with perhaps a team option for ’11, and take the risk he’ll be healthy.

        • Tampa Yankee says:

          It’ snot

          Can we still drink even though its not jsb?

  17. bonestock94 says:

    I will totally throw a chair if the redsox get Aroldis.

  18. Mike bk says:

    Ryota Igarashi to the mets on a 2 year deal

  19. Steve H says:

    I know it’s only a few posters, but the panic is ridiculous. What if the Sox had signed Cameron and Lackey yesterday, and the Yankees “responded” by trading for Granderson today? Would that get you off the ledge? Seriously, is the order of the events such a huge deal?

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      Not until we sign Holliday and Bay to take up LF and the DH respectively. Then I’ll get off my ledge.

    • A.D. says:

      Nah, at this point the one thing we should all of learned is that there is a big group of posters that love to get on the ledge and pretend the world is ending. They’re literally looking for an excuse.

    • Drew says:

      Heh.. People would still whine that we need teh Sheets!!1! We need teh Dusch!!11! We need teh LFer!!11! Nowwwww!!! Teh Cash is an idiot! He’s sitting on his hands! He held his cards too long! Holliday NOWWWWWWWW

    • Mike HC says:

      Clearly you should never step out onto a ledge if you are a Yankee fan, unless baseball enacts like a hard 89 million dollar salary cap or something. Then the party is officially over.

      But, you can be concerned that the Sox improved their team greatly from last year, by adding Lackey, Scutaro, Cameron and having VMart for an entire year. And so far, keywords being so far, the yanks are basically the same team from last year, trading Granderson for Damon.

      So, while the Yanks were so good last year that they should still be better than the Sox, the Sox have improved more than the Yanks as of right now, for the 2010 season.

      • Mike HC says:

        and losing Matsui. So the team is actually worse by one bat right now. I’m sure Cashman will get at least one extra bat and one extra pitcher though, so you can’t evaluate the offseason until it is done.

      • DP says:

        And even if the Red Sox win 120 games next year, there’s still the wild card, and we all know anyone can win in a short series.

      • Drew says:

        Why is it no one here acknowledges that they may have gotten rid of Lowell? Is that not significant?

        What about Ortiz getting a year older?

        Jeez, just because they signed Cammy and Lackey does not automatically make them better than us.

        • Mike HC says:

          Not better than us, just a tougher team than last year. Do you really think the Red Sox will be no better next year than they were last year?

          • Drew says:

            They had a pretty good team last year.

            Will Beckett rebound?

            Will Dice-BB be Dice-BB?

            Will Ortiz fall further?

            Will Captain America start 50 games?

            Will Buchholz make Gammons proud?

            Will JD Drew hurt himself on a blade of grass?

            Will Wakefield continue to cover first like a wounded animal?

            I don’t know if they will be better than last year. Time will tell.

          • Whitey14 says:

            Getting rid of Lowell is significant Drew. In fact in RSN we’re a bit perplexed as to the different scenarios being bandied about these days. Are they going after Adrian Beltre to play Third Base (which TSJC has me convinced will please me), are they going after the oft-injured Nick Johnson to play First Base while moving Youkilis to Third. Do they have plans on playing Kotchman at First and Youk at Third? Are they really going to trade Buchholz for a bat? Who replaces Wagner, Saito and Okajima in the Pen.

            True the Starting Rotation is looking strong right now, but the offense and the Pen still need to be addressed before we begin to talk about the Red sox measuring up against the Yankees, because right now they do not. 2010 is looking good in terms of them having a boatload of cash to work with so there’s always that to fall back on.

            I still see Damon returning to NY, because that’s where he wants to be and the ball park suits him. They just need to haggle over the years and dollars until they get it right.

            • A.D. says:

              Okajima isn’t a FA, or did the Sox non-tender him?

              Either way the pen loses Saito & Wagner from the end of last year

            • True the Starting Rotation is looking strong right now, but the offense and the Pen still need to be addressed before we begin to talk about the Red sox measuring up against the Yankees, because right now they do not.

              I have nothing to add, I just wanted to repeat the words of this intelligent and reasonable Red Sox fan louder so that we all could hear them and temper any seeds of panic we may be feeling.

              I’m specifically looking at you, Rose and mryankee.

            • Mike HC says:

              aging sluggers who can no longer play respectable defense are not very valuable. There is a very large glut of these type of players these days. There are always going to be a bunch of guys teams can sign that can hit, but can’t field a lick. Lowell is just one of them. Not losing anything there that can’t be gained back in a second.

        • JobaWockeeZ says:

          It makes them closer however. With Lackey and Cameron you get about 8 wins. Then take out Bay and it’s around 5 wins. Yanks had 8 wins more than the Sox this year making the two really close yet again.

          Of course this offseason isn’t close to being done yet and I have a feeling Cashman will surprise us all.

          • Bronx Cheer says:

            And the Yanks are likely down 1-2 wins by losing Matsui (assuming they resign Damon and shift Melky to LF for the “default” lineup).

  20. Ivan says:

    I wouldn’t mind at all if the Yankees go after Sheets especially one year deal.

    I also like Escobar as a reliever if the yanks can go after him as well.

  21. mustang says:

    Can someone tell me how the yankees are going to make up for Damon and Matsui production?

    I known by this time next week Cashman is going to make me happy, but it’s real cold right now.

  22. Rose says:

    Very interesting stuff regarding Matsui and the future of the Hot Stove regarding the Yankees…never thought of this possibility…well I have…just not lately.

    While the $6.5 million figure would seem affordable for the Yankees, owners of baseball’s richest payroll and a seemingly flexible budget, there is no guarantee that Matsui would have returned to the Yankees for that amount after earning $13 million in 2009.

    Cashman used the example of outfielder Bobby Abreu, who made $16 million in 2008 with the Yankees, but agreed to a $5 million deal with the Angels for the ’09 season. Cashman said that there was no way Abreu would have accepted that salary to remain in New York.

    “It’s hard for players to rationalize coming back to the same clubhouse in that circumstance,” Cashman said.

    Cashman has said that the Yankees have a defined amount of dollars available to spend from Hal Steinbrenner’s wallet, and Damon appears to have been more of a priority. The Yankees would like to sign Damon to a two-year deal in the vicinity of $18 million to $19 million, but those discussions have not warmed up.

    “Maybe the budget is something that people laugh at, [because] it’s the highest in the game,” Cashman said. “But it’s clearly defined, and I won’t exceed it.” – MLB.com

  23. John NY says:

    This weak FA market is super hyped up and the Yanks aren’t panicking. The Yanks can go into the season right now and compete with what they have. Agreed?

    If Hughes/Chamberlain and LF options flop, they still have enough in their system to go out and get the help they need by July. Pick a DH…any DH…no problem like Cashman said. That’s a likely transaction they can do unless some of the prices go down to the more desirable FA’s. Cashman knows what he’s doing. Not pressing the panic button is one of them. Bay, Sheets, Holliday, Bay, Damon all asking for crazy figures that don’t seem to fit into the Yanks plans. They’re ready to move on if they all sign close to their asking price.

    If we start sucking in the first half, Yanks will do something. I’m sure more attractive players will come available by July 2010

  24. Mark says:

    By my calculation, the Yanks have about $13-14 million to spend before they hit last year’s payroll ($201 million) – I just don’t see them having enough cash for Damon and Sheets or really any combination of a FA OF and one of the SP gambles (Sheets, Bedard, Duchscherer)

  25. Stuckey says:

    I get that Lackey is a fiery gamer type, and I wouldn’t mind having him on the mound in a play-off series, but for one I think NOT pitching half his games in Southern Cal and the other 3rd in warm weather division rival road parks could have a detrimental affect.

    And the John Lackey of the last 2 regular season is NOT that significant an upgrade over Wakefield, who he is basically replacing in the rotation. I think Wakefield was more of a weapon than he gets credits for.

    And Cameron for Bay? Isn’t that a step backward? And what about the bullpen?

    I don’t see the Sox being that much better right now than they were the moment Vlad punked Pabelbon to end their season.

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      Cameron is valued more than Bay…but the offense is one problem for the Sox. I think they could use another big bat especially since Lowell who was pretty productive left.

      • Mike bk says:

        actually it isnt. v-mart upgrading vs tek for a whole year is bigger than the bay to cameron offensive downgrade. also dont forget that scutaro has to outproduce the crap they had at ss last year.

    • And the John Lackey of the last 2 regular season is NOT that significant an upgrade over Wakefield, who he is basically replacing in the rotation. I think Wakefield was more of a weapon than he gets credits for.

      False. Wakefield: not a weapon.

      And Cameron for Bay? Isn’t that a step backward?

      No. It’s a step forwards. Better player + shorter committment + less money. That’s a big win.

      • Lanny says:

        How can you possibly think that Cameron is on the Bay level? The offensive dropoff is ridiculous. And if hes playing lF the value he brings defensively is totally negated in that ballpark.

        But hey lets think a player who hits 250 with 140+ k’s and who even bill james thinks will have a subpar season is on par with Bay the fact that hes younger and better??

        His OPS isnt even close to Bays.

        • How can you possibly think that Cameron is on the Bay level?

          Because, unlike you, I think things through to their full logical completion.

        • JobaWockeeZ says:

          Bays UZR isn’t anywhere near Cameron. It’s called defense Lanny. Now I know you never watched half an inning of it since if the Yankees got that 3rd out you’d be complaining here.

        • Steve H says:

          Jason Bay= .267 with 162 k’s.

        • Stuckey says:

          I get that people can and will pull out their favorite “advanced stat” to support whatever predisposed opinion they may have, but honestly, can any one really argue that Sox are significantly improved?

          Make your argument for upgrade over downgrade or vice versa, but I don’t see an impact player to be found here, particularly considering what they’ve lost.

          Still a play-off team in all likelihood, mind you, but any scarier in a 7-game ALCS (which is really the bottom line?)

          Don’t see it.

          • Steve H says:

            Run saved=Run scored.

            Even in a 7 game ALCS.

            • Stuckey says:

              How many runs does a game the sort of defense we’re talking about translate over a 7 game series?

              Isn’t it statistically more likely than not that even a significant upgrade in an outfield position won’t manifest itself in a run allowed (much less a significant run allowed) in a 4 to 7 game series (with the average being 5-6)?

              And didn’t the Sox come defensively weaker as of 7/31/09 with Martinex behind the plate, which he’d presumably be full-time in an AL post-season series?

              I mean their team ERA, slugging and record in August/September suggests they got weaker somewhere after that trade.

              Again, just not seeing the 2010 Sox being that much more dangerous than the 2009 Sox in a 7 game series.

          • John R says:

            Five 20 dollar bills are still $100. They’re making significant upgrades in a few areas, and it adds up.

            • Stuckey says:

              I’m fine with differences in opinion, but can you at least read what I wrote?

              I’m not arguing they haven’t upgraded in some areas (but also noting they downgraded in some), I just don’t see the “significant” part…

              No one has provided any insight as to why the upgrades are “significant”?

              • No one has provided any insight as to why the upgrades are “significant”?

                We have. You just don’t want to agree with it, so you dismiss the insight as us just “pulling out their favorite “advanced stat” to support whatever predisposed opinion they may have”.

                The insight is this: Lackey is an upgrade over Wakefield/DiceK/Buccholz (whomever he’s actually replacing); Scutaro is an upgrade over Lowrie/Gonzalez/Lugo, Cameron is an upgrade over Bay (because what you lose in offense you more than make up for in defense), and, if it goes through, Beltre is an upgrade over Lowell (same as the Bay/Cameron gambit).

                • Stuckey says:

                  That’s a superficial argument. It paints the subjective picture you want to see, there is no actual qualification.

                  5.1 is more than 5, which you could argue is an upgrade, but even multiplied by 5, you aren’t talking anything of any significance.

                  They’ve (arguably) upgraded in 4 positions is a hollow argument in of itself. The only thing that matter is quantification – HOW MUCH they’ve upgraded.

                  And I’m still not seeing anyone show their math.

  26. Ken says:

    I like Erik Bedard better than Sheets. He is left handed. He is a proven AL tested veteran. He woill not be ready to pitch until May. I do not know if he is a going to be 100% percent by then I also like Kelvim Escobar It would be nice to get him on a minor league contract he won 18 games before he got hurt and he has a low career ERA.

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      ERA isn’t everything. If it wasn’t for the M’s fantastic defense it would be a lot bigger. I pass on him.

      • Lanny says:

        Did the Orioles have a tremendous defense backing him up all those yrs too???

        Bedard is a proven AL East pitcher. His issues are how hurt is he and is he really that terrible in the clubhouse.

        • Steve H says:

          Sheets has pitched more innings the past two years than Bedard. And Sheets sat out a year. Sheets is better, and less risky than Bedard.

    • Reggie C. says:

      I’d forgotten Bedard was even a free agent. Bedard does fit the low-risk, high reward tag, and if healthy Bedard can push for a rotation spot in June/July, which the team might require if Joba or Hughes aren’t executing.

      • Reggie C. says:

        But I still take Sheets over Bedard if the price tag is doable.

        • Bronx Cheer says:

          Sheets’ price tag includes a strongly worded promise from Cashman that he will be in the rotation, sink or swim. Are you comfortable with that? What about the final abandoning of Hughes or Joba as a starter that will be necessary to create the spot?

    • Steve H says:

      Sheets>>>>>>>>>>>>Bedard

  27. Mike bk says:

    so if Matsui gets 6.5 as the best DH out there what does Delgado get? 5 mil?

  28. YankeeGaGa says:

    4:36pm: Patrick Newman of NPB Tracker points us to a Japanese report that says the Red Sox are the leaders to sign Igarashi. They’re apparently willing to offer a two-year deal worth $2-3MM.

  29. JobaTheHeat62 says:

    if we sign damon to be the DH, we will be a better team this year than last, even with melky being the everyday LF. first off we are younger, and our OF defense is significantly improved. and with gardner on the bench, there is potential for some sick OF defense with Melky, Grandy, and then Gardner replacing swisher in the late innings. Also the lineup actually gains some power, as Granderson hit more HRs than Matsui did last season. More Power, More Speed, Better DEFENSE, and Younger. Point being there is nothing wrong with melky being the everyday LF. Resign Damon, and get another pitcher, and Boston wont touch us. So far they are a worse team than last year, They lost 2 good arms in the bullpen and there RBI leader and protection for Youkilis. Mike Cameron is maybe half of Jason Bay and who cares about Lackey. Clay Bucholz could have done probly the same job, now he gets to be in AAA.

  30. Wilcymoore27 says:

    While you’re doing hot stove updates, RAB, please at least do a post about Hideki Matsui getting picked up today by the Angels. I think under-appreciated Hideki at least deserves his own article …

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